Please join Dr. Nicole R.H. Baker and Aurélia Bickler as we discuss the challenges and opportunities associated with the pursuit of work/life balance. Though it might seem like an impossible goal to reach, acceptance, perspective and boundaries play a big role in finding our own version of it.
Please join Dr. Nicole R.H. Baker and Aurélia Bickler as we discuss the challenges and opportunities associated with the pursuit of work/life balance. Though it might seem like an impossible goal to reach, acceptance, perspective and boundaries play a big role in finding our own version of it.
00:01.80
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Bojour everyone and thank you for joining us today. Please join me in welcoming our guest Billy Tyler marriage and family therapist from Spokane Washington. Billy works predominantly with couples and works also with individuals and families and practices from a strength based approach. Currently working on her PhD and MST at north central university and is an adjunct faculty at Antioch University in Seattle Thank you so much for joining us. Billy how are you today.
01:07.11
Billie Tyler
I'm great. Thank you so much for having me I'm really excited.
02:16.76
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
I am so looking forward to this conversation I want to hear about happiness today I feel that as therapists happiness is the word that is thrown at us very often. People will often say oh I don't feel happy I don't you know and I just want.
02:54.32
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Hear your perspective as a human and as a therapist around the word happy or happiness. How do you define it? What is your relationship with it. Talk to us a little bit.
02:02.69
Billie Tyler
Yeah I Love that I Love this topic because I feel like sometimes happiness in our society has been like developed this like mile marker of success like if we're not Happy. You're not being success. Full and um I think Happiness is one of many emotions that are so important for us to fill Maybe more of that fulfillment. So when I think of Happiness. Um I think a lot more about. Feeling like you have options and choices and feeling like you're getting to make those choices based off of what really matters to you regardless of how easy or how good it feels along the way but it feels purposeful and Meaningful. So. My personal kind of Journey. That's like what I try and think of when I get and stuck and like well I'm not happy right Now. It's like well is what I'm doing and spending time ah with my energy mattering like is it based off of what really matters to me and I think that. Pushes us a little beyond that sense of happiness and into more of that like hearty sense of fulfillment. Um, because I do think sometimes you know when we're little how often I even get myself caught in this as a parent right? like our kids are crying and we're like don't cry like or put a smile on that face.
05:50.98
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
19 Yes.
04:52.91
Billie Tyler
And we're we're sending those messages that if you're anything but happy then you're maybe not, You're not okay. So.
06:13.64
Dr. Aurelia Bicklersts
So if I hear you correctly is it okay to have moments where we don't feel quote unquote happy.
05:21.33
Billie Tyler
I Think it's completely. Okay, we honestly can we really feel truly happy and fulfilled if we don't experience more kind of complexity and nuanced of our experience like I think we need those struggles and hard times to. Actually sit in those moments of joy and like really let them soak in because we can get the duality of it like what it feel what it felt like to get there. So I think 100%. It's it's better. It's a lot more meaningful to have those feelings of tough times because. When you are feeling that joy or lightness that happiness can bring you get to like really soak it in and appreciate it.
07:57.64
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yeah, that makes sense. It makes me fit. It makes me think of a a movie that I personally adore if a Pixar movie inside out I think we've talked about this movie before yes, it's such a. It's such a great movie that.
07:10.67
Billie Tyler
Um, oh my gosh. Love it I Love it.
08:30.82
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Really really explores the different emotions and and the need for these emotions I It's one of my favorites I Highly recommend this movie if you haven't seen it go ahead and and rent it or watch it. But it's it's wonderful question for you.
07:30.67
Billie Tyler_ LMFT
Um, None
07:49.50
Billie Tyler_ LMFT
Yes, I'm often talking about that with my clients about inside out. It's just such a great great movie.
09:09.28
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Absolutely I agree um question for you. Even as we're talking about this I Keep thinking we're using the word happy. But I think there are other words that people might use to define quote Unquote happiness.
08:37.49
Billie Tyler
Um, yeah.
09:47.20
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Do you do you find that different words are are are used and maybe and have a nuance to the term and and therefore sort of shape the way that people or shape the relationship that people have with happiness.
09:13.13
Billie Tyler
Yeah I Definitely think so I think sometimes when we when we just stick to happiness alone as the only word that we use to describe the feelings of joy or the things that we're talking about it feels ah it can feel a little static like it's something you have to arrive to.
10:23.80
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Ah, fortomit.
09:51.35
Billie Tyler
And stay in and I think um, when people can shift the language maybe to things like fulfillment satisfaction joy Even it starts shifting more into a more fluid experience and journey rather than ah, a destination. So I do think. I Do think words matter right? Even if we're telling ourselves over and over like I need to be happy or I'm working for happiness.. There can be a big shift in how we feel if we can even shift the words we use to say like I really want to feel joyful right now or I'm doing this. Because it's really fulfilling and meaningful. Um, and that gives more space for more of the complexity that you might be feeling um and ah, you'll give a little more grace that it if it doesn't feel good the whole time. That's okay, in that it's not that.
12:13.42
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yeah. Is. It.
12:36.78
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yeah.
11:40.71
Billie Tyler
Not good and positive and successful.
12:48.64
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Right? And I love that and it brings me to my next question which is can we feel. Ah, sense of satisfaction or fulfillment while struggling through something in our life is it possible to have the duality or even more than that many emotions simultaneously and feel some sense of of that. What does that look like what have you seen even in in your practice in regard to that.
12:25.71
Billie Tyler_ LMFT
That.
12:37.13
Billie Tyler
Yeah, yeah, I think definitely I think that like in my well none like None thing that came to mind as you were asking that question is how many times are we reading books or watching movies or. Documentaries on these inspirational stories that we look at people and think oh they like they've really like they've reached something they're they're probably truly happy. But if you really take the time to hear and listen to those stories like there's a lot of trials and tribulations that usually get us there. Um, you know like people who climb Mount Everest I'm sure it doesn't feel good most of the way and it's really hard and you probably feel sad sometimes disappointed exhausted. Yes, all of those things mixed into one and it's not like when you hit the top.
15:04.72
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
I Think you're right so terrified.
14:28.19
Billie Tyler
Probably all of that just dissipates and disappears It's just that you get to like have this moment of reflecting and taking it all in of like what it all cumulated to in that moment and what you put in and I think that's where the true like joy and fulfillment comes from with clients especially with couples.
15:52.82
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
This is.
15:06.19
Billie Tyler
I Think um relationships are hard right? like any of us who have been in any type of relationship romantic ones are I think even more uniquely hard because we're so um, we're so invested in them but even friendships parent-child relationships. All of those can also be.
16:18.32
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yeah.
15:45.55
Billie Tyler
Really challenging? Um, but at the same time like through many of those challenges it often if we can communicate and lean into those hard times together like we come out the other side feeling more connected more satisfied and again this. Just feeling more joyful and appreciative of that relationship. So I definitely have seen that with couples and I think as a therapist Sometimes it's like sometimes they're in the trenches and so having a little space and not because I'm not in the trenches in my own life and relationship but having a little space to be like look what.
17:45.40
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Um, yeah. In here. Um, yeah.
17:00.29
Billie Tyler
Doing like look what you're accomplishing together. Um, and if if there are things that aren't feeling fulfilling like how could we interject those back into your relationship. So yeah.
18:27.68
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yeah,, it's so beautiful and it makes me think about my clinical work too. Sometimes I see individuals who maybe are going through grief or something and I think they feel guilty because this past weekend they went damn saying and they actually had a good time right? and they. Gave themselves the permission to feel joy for an instant even though they're struggling with this immense grief and so Interesting. How all of these different feelings come together and and whether we allow happiness to come in when we're struggling with something.
18:27.53
Billie Tyler
Morally? Yeah I think it's a huge piece of the puzzle just to like create space for all the emotions at the same time very rarely just as humans. Do we experience things like black and white where it's like.
19:34.42
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
I think is ah is a big piece to the puzzle too.
19:51.24
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
And.
18:59.47
Billie Tyler
Everything about this was good or bad happy or sad like um, it's often a mix of things right? like even huge moments in our life. You know sometimes having a child is like this really happy exciting moment of the future but can also be.
20:06.00
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Here? yeah.
19:37.77
Billie Tyler
Terrifying all at the exact same time and so I think just making space for all of that is a real. It's a real part of the journey to like actually feel a little more like fulfilled. So.
21:08.92
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yes, and as you said that I think to myself I don't think I've experienced something that feels black or white or black and white I feel like everything's in the gray for me. So I can't recall a single time in my life. So are we societly speaking. Are we.
20:21.85
Billie Tyler
Have oh yeah.
21:48.34
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
The societal standpoints are we bringing up the next generation to embrace the different layers of emotions including happiness but in a way that feels.
21:05.85
Billie Tyler
Yeah.
21:20.30
Billie Tyler
Yeah, maybe not so like expectational but more something that is a part of a greater human experience I mean I think I think about even when.
22:26.40
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Helpful for them in your opinion.
21:53.79
Billie Tyler_ LMFT
I was growing up and how now as a parent I'm trying to raise my kids I think there's already you can see shifts in just the focus on how we feel in general. Um I don't think forty years ago people were asking that many questions about how do you. Feel and it mattering right? like it was a lot more like what are you doing? What are you accomplishing and so I think there's hope for me in that because I see like even in some of the systems like schools and communities. There is more of a focus on like who are you What's your experience like more curiosity.
23:38.26
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Um, yeah.
24:12.50
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Is it.
23:10.33
Billie Tyler_ LMFT
Around the whole experience and I think that's going to be really beneficial for kind of our next generations to come Um, but I still think we're in this transition phase where a lot of us who are bringing up this next generation didn't necessarily get raised in the same way.
24:26.66
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Now.
23:46.23
Billie Tyler_ LMFT
So it's easy to slip into those kind of autopilot modeling what we experienced but then it's this like Tug of war sometimes of like oh shoot I just said don't cry where it's like I genuinely want you to feel like you can have feelings and feel sad. Um, and.
24:56.24
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yeah.
25:14.10
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yes.
24:24.83
Billie Tyler_ LMFT
Trying to even navigate like what is the language around that where I can hold space for you being sad but also maybe still take away some of that piece of like resilience and like being able to move forward as well. And so I'm super hopeful for the next generation and I'm sure.
25:55.96
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yeah.
25:02.91
Billie Tyler_ LMFT
As this generation gets older the next one's going to have even more space for more nuance and complexity of experiences.
26:15.42
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yeah, yes, I'm grateful for your perspective. You know about this topic because raising kids today is is overwhelming sometimes and I think. A lot of them feel a tremendous amount of pressure to reach a level of happiness and I don't I don't know that they or even we know exactly what that means what that looks like and embracing all of the different. Um.
26:08.93
Billie Tyler
Um, yeah.
27:26.56
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Experiences tied to happiness or even completely on the other side of the spectrum. Um, it play an important role and you said it beautifully for example, building resiliency right? building that strength that ability to.
26:27.51
Billie Tyler_ LMFT
Right.
28:02.14
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Move on and work harder and things like that. So you you speak about it. So beautifully I just am really enjoying that. Um, so how do we and how do you as a Clinician address these types of expectations that.
27:08.31
Billie Tyler
Will be.
28:40.40
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Clients might come with around fulfillment and happiness.
27:39.19
Billie Tyler
Yeah I think for me coming from that strength-based approach. It's one just like helping them slow down and recognize what they are already doing and maybe where they are experiencing joy. But maybe just aren't present with it always because it feels. Hard to see outside of maybe some of the other more challenging emotions that can come up also as a Clinician I spend a lot of time talking about like what matters to you and really trying to help clients better clarify and elaborate that their sense of value because. None many of us right? Like we're kind of told what should be important to us. There's not a lot of time Asking. What is actually important to us and I think finding like true fulfillment and happiness is really finding your own truth like kind of.
30:07.88
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Who.
29:31.49
Billie Tyler
Compass of values of what really matters and mine's going to look different than yours and even from my kids and so it's just finding a way to really get to know that and it's going to change right? like my value system now at this stage in my life and career relationships. It looks a lot different than how it looked.
30:43.72
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yeah.
31:15.74
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Right.
30:10.97
Billie Tyler
Twenty years ago and I'm sure 20 years from now. It will also be very different and so I spend a lot of time just like asking more questions about that like so when something's really hard instead of just being like okay how could we make it better I try not to rush to that I I don't want to model those same ah patterns that. Like we many of us got growing up but instead just try and like pause and be like okay, it sounds like there's a lot going on like what are all the emotions that we're maybe feeling around this and then I'm going to ask like you know what maybe matters to you in this like what's making you make these like make this decision like to just.
32:29.46
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
This is.
31:29.49
Billie Tyler
Again, make them feel more empowered that they they are making choices through this but also that um, that a lot of times our choices even though they're hard ones like are based off of things that really do matter for us like.
32:59.40
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yeah.
31:59.51
Billie Tyler
You know I got up at 6 a m this morning to french braid. My daughter's hair I wouldn't say that on baseline is like important to me but I knew it really mattered to her today and that's what's important to me and being able to slow down at 6 a m and think to myself I'm choosing to do this.
33:09.50
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
And.
33:32.28
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
The.
32:35.35
Billie Tyler
Because it's important to me made me feel a lot more excitement and joy this morning about doing that because I knew what it meant to her and what it it and in return what it meant to me that created and fostered so much more space for fulfillment even though I was super tired and.
34:16.50
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yeah.
33:14.62
Billie Tyler
Um, not a morning person. So I can that's just ah, a recent example of what that can look like and how we can do that for our clients as well.
34:33.26
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
And what a systemic impact right? What becomes important to you is really shaped from what is important to somebody that you care about and so her knowing your daughter knowing what she wants and what fulfills her and being able to share that.
33:56.81
Billie Tyler
Are.
35:10.56
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
With her mother then gives you a sense of importance and a sense of fulfillment through her and so I often think about how as therapists what we do in the room how we help somebody come to their their next version of life right.
34:11.70
Billie Tyler
Totally.
35:44.46
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
How it spreads into the rest of their community and then how that spreads into the rest of society and this is just such a beautiful example what you just described is this systemic little puzzle of life and through emotions and it's It's so.
35:05.10
Billie Tyler
Totally and I think with couples I Just want to know like with couples I think this is a really if you're working with couples as a clinician This is a really important thing to remember because it can get hard to do some of the things that you feel like are the have tos or the expectations.
36:20.60
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Helpful.
35:43.59
Billie Tyler
But if you can get to that place of curiosity and true understanding like sometimes something like doing the dishes every night that maybe isn't important to you like you feel fine with having a few dishes in the sink might become something that feels a little more rewarding because you know the impact it has on. On your partner and so I think again and that's a definitely more connected and fulfilling relationship for sure.
37:39.80
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
I'm pretty sure you're speaking directly about my marriage right now.
36:38.67
Billie Tyler
Um, I'm definitely talking about my own marriage right? Yes that yeah probably the flip I need the dishes because I know it matters for my husband. So.
37:49.98
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Um, all right. We have a Latin comment here. I'm okay with the dishes my husband done so much that it becomes something that I prioritize. Ah, absolutely same here. It says it's become important to me because because I know it impacts his his inner peace right? which is another version of happiness right? He he'll often say I can't function if I don't feel totally active.
37:40.65
Billie Tyler
Yeah I want to just be present is a huge part of all of this right? like cutting through and making that space is a lot of times just anchoring into the present moment and.
38:50.14
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Peaceful within. And yeah.
39:11.00
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yeah.
38:09.37
Billie Tyler
If you can support someone else in having a little more of that and often one pays back like pays forward and returns back to you but also it it does feel fulfilling for sure.
39:40.00
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
It's beautiful. So do you have any resources for our listeners both Clinicians and just humans in general um to identify the things that fulfill them identify the.
38:49.47
Billie Tyler
Um, yes.
40:08.38
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Ah, ways that they can feel a sense of satisfaction and happiness.
39:06.53
Billie Tyler
Yeah, yes I Love this question because I think it can feel kind of overwhelming to start and just be like where do I start to actually feel more like happiness. Um, as therapists I think like we kind of already mentioned this but like really shifting.
40:23.58
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yes, this yes.
39:41.23
Billie Tyler_ LMFT
Beyond happiness in your sessions and not ah like being careful not to make happiness the goal and any other emotion is something that needs to be worked on or processed through and again just leading with that curiosity and asking questions about what actually matters to our clients. Um, I think as humans something that's really helpful is just like really building a mindfulness practice like find time even if it's 30 seconds a day to just notice what's going on around you.
What's going on inside of you. In a way I like to use the analogy. It's kind of like running a marathon right? like just because I want to be more present and make more space just because I want to do it probably won't be enough I have to kind of build that endurance up to that and so building a mindfulness practice is kind of like training for that marathon like a little goes a long way if you can even just.
You're brushing your teeth like gosh. What's on my mind. What does this feel like what other feelings are coming up for me that I think is really impactful. Another thing is just kind of with that mindfulness taking inventory and really asking yourself like. Is where I'm putting my time and energy like lining up with that value system because if it's not then you're probably not feeling that sense of happiness and joy as often because you're not connecting to why? Ah. You're doing it.
You wouldn't run into a burning building just for fun, right? like you would only run it if something was really important to you and I think very much that's similar in our lives right? like check in sometimes and see and then None kind of really tangible resources that I think are um.
43:56.22
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Yeah.
43:09.31
Billie Tyler_ LMFT
Really helpful. The reality slap is a book by Russ Harris he's an acceptance commitment therapist and I think it does a beautiful job of kind of walking you through like how to find that fulfilling life when even when life hurts and so. He does a beautiful job talking about his experience as a parent and some of the things that didn't weren't turning out the way he had anticipated but how he was able to slow down figure out what was important to him use some mindfulness to really find that fulfillment and joy. Anyways. And then one of the like most it's this pretty simple app but it's so it's not super high tech. But I think it's really effective. It's called values card sort. It's a free app I know you can get out on Apple I would guess you can get it on other um like.
44:59.79
Billie Tyler
Androids and stuff as well. But I like to use this as almost like my compass. So if there's a time where I'm just feeling kind of down or kind of stuck anxious like whatever some of those quote unquote difficult emotions are sometimes I'll pull that out and just. Go through it essentially goes through like some of the most common things people find valuable and you sort them into piles and then you take your top pile and sort that a little bit more and ultimately try and come down to like your top None your top value and I really find that helpful when I feel kind of stuck to be like okay, if this is. I'm thinking is really important right now. How are my choices maybe ah lining up with that so that I can like feel a little bit more sense of that fulfillment and hardiness so those are the resources I think are really helpful.
47:46.20
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
That's wonderful and I Thank you So so much. Um, you know this is a difficult topic. It feels so easy when you think about? oh we'll just talk about happiness. But it's such a complex topic with so many different layers and I Really appreciate you speaking to us about this. Both from again. Ah just a human right perspective but also from a clinician perspective and I'm so grateful I'm so grateful for your time and again. Thank you for for coming. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for having this difficult conversation. Once again.
48:54.88
Dr. Aurelia Bickler
Dr. Arelia Bickler thank you so much for to all of you our listeners please stay safe and until next time search within connect to who you are and let your inner happiness come through. Thank you.
48:13.85
Billie Tyler
Thank you.