Dr. Aurélia Bickler with guest Billie Tyler, explore the complex experiences, frequently lumped under the umbrella of “happiness”. These said experiences often exist in concurrence with alternative and sometimes opposing emotions; making it challenging for people to identify and/or explore.
The Reality Slap: Finding Peace and Fulfillment When Life Hurts https://a.co/d/2tNQGqU
Inside Out: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2096673/
Dr. Aurélia Bickler with guest Billie Tyler, explore the complex experiences, frequently lumped under the umbrella of “happiness”. These said experiences often exist in concurrence with alternative and sometimes opposing emotions; making it challenging for people to identify and/or explore.
The Reality Slap: Finding Peace and Fulfillment When Life Hurts https://a.co/d/2tNQGqU
Inside Out: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2096673/
Dr. Aurélia Bickler 0:00
Welcome to the Virtual Center for Health and Wellness advancing the human condition podcast. Our mission is to improve the human condition by learning from highly competent professionals and their contribution to their respective fields. Welcome, I am Dr. Aurélia Bickler, and I am the center's director. Join me in welcoming our guests Billie Tyler Marriage and Family Therapist from Spokane, Washington. Billy works predominantly with couples but does individual and family work as well, and practices from a strength based approach? Billy is currently working on her PhD in MFT, specializing in couples at NCU. And he's an adjunct faculty member at Antioch University. Thank you for joining us, Billy, how are you today?
Billie Tyler 0:44
I'm great. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited.
Dr. Aurélia Bickler 0:48
I'm really looking forward to this conversation. I want to hear about happiness today. I feel that as therapists happiness is a word that is thrown at us very often people say, oh, you know, I'm just not happy, I don't feel happy. I just want to hear your perspective as a human. And as a therapist around the word happy or happiness. How do you define it? What is your relationship with it? Talk to us a little bit.
Billie Tyler 1:16
I love that I love this topic. Because I feel like sometimes happiness in our society has been like develop this like mile marker of success. Like, if we're not happy, you're not being successful. And I think happiness is one of many emotions that are so important for us to fill maybe more of that fulfillment. So when I think of happiness, I think a lot more about feeling like you have options and choices and feeling like you're getting to make those choices based off of what really matters to you, regardless of how easy or how good it feels along the way, but it feels purposeful and meaningful.
So for my personal kind of journey, that's like what I try and think of when I get stuck and like, Well, I'm not happy right now, like, well, is what I'm doing. And spending time with my energy mattering, like is based off of what really matters to me. And I think that pushes us a little beyond that sense of happiness and into more of that, like hearty sense of fulfillment. Because I do think sometimes, you know, when we're little and often I even get myself caught in this as a parent, right? Like, our kids are crying and we're like, don't cry, like or put a smile on that face. And we're sending those messages that if you're anything but happy, then you're maybe not, you're not okay, so.
Dr. Aurélia Bickler 2:45
So if I'm hearing you correctly, is it okay to have moments where we don't feel quote unquote, happy?
Billie Tyler 2:51
I think it's completely okay. We honestly, can, we really feel truly happy and fulfilled, if we don't experience more kind of complexity and nuanced of our experience. Like, I think we need those struggles and hard times, to actually sit in those moments of joy. And like, really let them soak in because we can get the duality of it, like what it feels what it felt like to get there. So I think 100% It's, it's better, it's a lot more meaningful to have that those feelings of tough times because when you are feeling that joy or lightness that happiness can bring you get to like really soak it in and appreciate it.
Dr. Aurélia Bickler 3:38
Yes, that makes total sense to me. You know what it makes me think of a movie that I just adore. It's a Pixar movie called Inside Out. We might have talked about it before. That's such a great movie. It explores the different emotions and the needs of these emotions to connect to one another and to coexist with each other. It's truly one of my favorite movies, and I highly recommend it. If you haven't seen it, read it, watch it, find it. It's just wonderful.
Billie Tyler 4:05
Yes, I'm often talking about that, with my clients about inside out. It's just such a great, great movie.
Dr. Aurélia Bickler 4:13
I couldn't agree more. I just love that movie. I have a question for you. Even as we're talking about the word happy, I keep thinking that we might be using the word happy. But are there other words that perhaps people might use to define, quote unquote, happiness? Do you maybe do you find that different words are used or maybe have a nuance to the term? And maybe that nuance actually shapes the way that people that people think of the term or even their relationship have with happiness or fulfillment? Yeah,
Billie Tyler 4:49
I definitely think so. I think sometimes when we, when we just stick to happiness alone as the only word that we use to describe the feelings of joy or the things that we're doing Talking about it feels it can feel a little static, like it's something you have to arrive to, and stay in. And I think when people can shift the language maybe to things like fulfillment, satisfaction, joy even, it starts shifting more into a more fluid experience and journey rather than a destination.
So I do think I do think words matter, right? Even if we're telling ourselves over and over, like, I need to be happy, or I'm working for happiness, there can be a big shift and how we feel if we can even shift the words we use to say like, I really want to feel joyful right now, or, I'm doing this because it's really fulfilling and meaningful. And that gives more space for more of the complexity that you might be feeling. And give a little more grace that if it doesn't feel good the whole time? That's okay. In that it's not, that's not good and positive and successful.
Dr. Aurélia Bickler 6:02
Right. And I love that. And it brings me to my next question, which is, can we feel a sense of satisfaction or fulfillment, while struggling through something in our life? Like, is it possible to have the duality or even more than that many emotions simultaneously? Can we feel each of them all at the same time? What does that even look like? What have you seen in your practice in that regard?
Billie Tyler 6:26
Yeah, I think definitely, I think that like in my first, like, one thing that came to mind, as you're asking that question is, how many times are we reading books, or watching movies or documentaries on these inspirational stories that we look at people and think, oh, lately, they've really like they've reached something, they're, they're probably truly happy. But if you really take the time to hear and listen to those stories, like there's a lot of trials and tribulations that usually get us there.
You know, like people who climbed Mount Everest, I'm sure it doesn't feel good most of the way. And it's really hard, and you probably feel sad, sometimes disappointed, exhausted. All of those things mix into one. And it's not like when you hit the top, probably all of that just dissipates and disappears. It's just that you get to like, have this moment of reflecting and taking it all in of like, what it all cumulated to in that moment, and what you put in and I think that's where the true like joy and fulfillment comes from. with clients, especially with couples, I think Relationships are hard, right? Like any of us who have been in any type of relationship. romantic ones are, I think even more uniquely hard, because we're so we're so invested in them. But even friendships, parent, child relationships, all of those can also be really challenging.
But at the same time, like through many of those challenges, it's often if we can communicate and lean into those hard times together, like we come out the other side, feeling more connected, more satisfied. And again, like just feeling more joyful and appreciative of that relationship. So I definitely have seen that with couples. And I think as a therapist, sometimes it's like, sometimes they're in the trenches, and so having a little space, and not because I'm not in the trenches in my own life and relationship, but having a little space to be like, look what you're doing, like, look what you're accomplishing together. And if, if there are things that aren't feeling fulfilling, like how could we interject those back into your relationships, so that is so beautiful, and it makes me think about my clinical work, too. Sometimes I see individuals who maybe are going through grief or something.
And they think they feel guilty because this past weekend, they were dancing, and they actually had a good time, right. And they gave themselves permission to feel joy for an instant, even though they're struggling with this immense grief. So interesting how all of the different feelings come together. And whether we allow happiness to come in and, you know, while we're struggling with something, it's that's a big piece of the puzzle, too.
Billie Tyler 9:18
Yeah, I think it's a huge piece of the puzzle just to like, create space for all the emotions at the same time. Very rarely, just as humans do. We experience things like black and white, where it's like, everything about this was good or bad, happy or sad. Like it's often a mix of things, right? Like even huge moments in our life. You know, sometimes having a child is like this really happy, exciting moment of the future but can also be terrifying, all at the exact same time. And so I think just making space for all of that is a real it's a real part of the or need to, like actually feel a little more like fulfilled?
Dr. Aurélia Bickler 10:04
Yeah. And I often think to myself that I haven't ever experienced anything that feels black or white, I can't even think of something that feels black and white. Really, everything kind of feels like a different different shades of grey to me. I'm wondering on a societal standpoint, what are we bringing up the next generation to feel around the the idea of happiness? Are we are we? Are we helping them embrace the different layers of emotions, including happiness, but in the way that lets them feel? Okay, and in a way that's helpful to them? What's your opinion about that?
Billie Tyler 10:45
Maybe not. So like expectational, but more something that is a part of a greater human experience? I mean, I think I think about even when I was growing up, and how now as a parent, I'm trying to raise my kids, I think there's already you can see shifts, and just the focus on how we feel in general. I don't think 40 years ago, people were asking that many questions about how do you feel? And it mattering? Right? Like it was a lot more like, what are you doing? What are you accomplishing? And so I think there's hope for me in that, because I see like, even in some of the systems like schools and communities, there is more of a focus on like, who are you?
What's your experience, like more curiosity around the whole experience. And I think that's going to be really beneficial for kind of our next generations to come. But I still think we're in this transition phase, where a lot of us who are bringing up this next generation didn't necessarily get raised in the same way. So it's easy to slip into those kind of autopilot modeling what we experienced, but then it's just like tug of war, sometimes of like, oh, shoot, I just said, Don't cry, where it's like, I genuinely want you to feel like you can have feelings and feel sad, and trying to even navigate, like, what is the language around that where I can hold space for you being sad, but also maybe still take away some of that peace of like resilience and like being able to move forward as well.
And so I'm super hopeful for the next generation. And I'm sure, as this generation gets older, the next one's going to have even more space for more nuance and complexity of experiences.
Dr. Aurélia Bickler 12:42
Yes, I'm, I'm hopeful to, I think you have a really great point here, from your perspective, around this topic, because raising kids today is overwhelming sometimes. And I think a lot of them feel a tremendous amount of pressure to reach a level of happiness. And I don't, I don't know that. They even know what happiness actually means. Right? I don't know what that looks like, or embracing the different experiences tied to happiness, or even completely on the other side of that spectrum. Kind of play an important role. And you said it beautifully. So for example, building resiliency, building that strength, that ability to move on and work harder and things like that. You speak about this so beautifully. I'm really enjoying that piece. And how do we and how do you as a clinician address these types of expectations that clients might come with around fulfillment, and happiness?
Billie Tyler 13:43
Yeah, I think for me, coming from that strength based approach, it's one just like, helping them slow down and recognizing what they are already doing. And maybe where they are experiencing joy, but maybe just aren't present with it always because it feels hard to see outside of maybe some of the other more challenging emotions that can come up. Also, as a clinician, I spend a lot of time talking about, like, what matters to you, and really trying to help clients better clarify and elaborate that their sense of value. Because first many of us, right, like, we're kind of told what should be important to us, there's not a lot of time asking what is actually important to us.
And I think finding like true fulfillment and happiness is really finding your own truth, like kind of compass of values of what really matters, and mine is gonna look different than yours and even for my kids, and so it's just finding a way to really get to know that and it's gonna change, right like my value system. Now, at this stage in my life and career relationships. It looks a lot different than how it looked 20 years ago, and I'm sure 20 years from Now it will also be very different. And so I spend a lot of time just like asking more questions about that, like, so when something's really hard, instead of just being like, okay, how can we make it better? I try not to rush to that. I don't want to model those same patterns that like we many of us got growing up, but instead just try and like, pause and be like, okay, it sounds like there's a lot going on, like, what are all the emotions that were maybe feeling around this, and then I'm gonna ask like, you know, what maybe matters to you in this, like, what's making you make these, like, make this decision, like, to just again, make them feel more empowered, that they, they are making choices through this, but also that, that a lot of times our choices, even though they're hard ones like are based off of things that really do matter for us, like, you know, I got up at 6am, this morning to French braid my daughter's hair, I wouldn't say that baseline is like important to me. But I knew what really mattered to her today.
And that's what's important to me, and being able to slow down at 6am. And think to myself, I'm choosing to do this because it's important to me, made me feel a lot more excitement and joy this morning about doing that because I knew what it meant to her and what it and in return what it meant to me that created and fostered so much more space for fulfillment, even though I was super tired. Not a morning person. So that's just a recent example of what that can look like, and how we can do that for our clients as well.
Dr. Aurélia Bickler 16:37
And what is systemic impact, right? What becomes important to you is really shaped from what is important to somebody you care about. And so her knowing your daughter, knowing that what she wants, what fulfills her being able to share with her mother, then then gives you a sense of importance and a sense of fulfillment through her. And so I often think about how us as therapists what we do in the room, what we how we help somebody come to their next version of life, right? How it spreads into the rest of the community, and then how that spreads into the rest of society. And this is just such a beautiful example, what you just described as a systemic little puzzle of life, through emotions.
Billie Tyler 17:20
And I think with couples, I just want to know like, with couples, I think this is a really, if you're working with couples, as a clinician, this is a really important thing to remember because it can get hard to do some of the things that you feel like are the half twos or the expectations. But if you can get to that place of curiosity and true understanding, like sometimes something like doing the dishes every night that maybe isn't important to you, like you feel fine with having a few dishes in the sink might become something that feels a little more rewarding, because you know, the impact it has on on your partner. And so I think again, and that's a definitely more connected and fulfilling relationship.
Dr. Aurélia Bickler 18:00
I'm pretty sure this is speaking directly about my marriage right now.
Billie Tyler 18:04
Talking about my own marriage, right?
Dr. Aurélia Bickler 18:07
We have a lot in common here, it becomes something becomes important to me because I know it impacts his inner peace and and that's another version of happiness right? Even he'll he'll often say things to me, like I can't function if I don't feel peace within right and peace within might come from those things that we do, like do the dishes,
Billie Tyler 18:27
totally. Just be present is a huge part of all of this, right? Like cutting through and making that space is a lot of times just anchoring into the present moment. And if you can support someone else, and having a little more of that, and often one pays back, like pays forward and returns back to you. But also it it does feel fulfilling for sure.
Dr. Aurélia Bickler 18:51
That's beautiful. So do you have any resources for our listeners, both clinicians and all other humans in general to identify the things that fulfill them identify the way that they can feel a sense of satisfaction or happiness?
Billie Tyler 19:07
Yeah, yes, I love this question, because I think it can feel kind of overwhelming to start and just be like, where do I start to actually feel more like happiness? As therapists I think we kind of already mentioned this, but like really shifting beyond happiness in your sessions and not like being careful not to make happiness, the goal and any other emotion is something that needs to be worked on or process through. And, again, just leading with that curiosity and asking questions about what actually matters to our clients. I think as humans, something that's really helpful is just like really building a mindfulness practice, like find time, even if it's 30 seconds a day, to just notice what's going on around you what's going on inside of you. In a way I like to use the analogy. It's kind of like running marathon, right?
Like, just because I want to be more present and make more space just because I want to do, it probably won't be enough, I have to kind of build that endurance up to that. And so building a mindfulness practice is kind of like training for that marathon, like a little goes a long way, if you can, even just while you're brushing your teeth, like, Gosh, what's on my mind? What does this feel like? What other feelings are coming up for me? That I think is really impactful. Another thing is just kind of with that mindfulness taking inventory, and really ask yourself like, is where I'm putting my time and energy, like lining up with that value system, because if it's not, then you're probably not feeling that sense of happiness and joy as often because you're not connecting to why? Why you're doing it, you wouldn't run into a burning building just for fun, right? Like you'd only run in if something was really important to you. And I think very much that's similar in our lives, right?
Like, check in sometimes and see, and then to kind of really tangible resources that I think are really helpful. The reality slap is a book by Russ Harris. He's an acceptance commitment therapist. And I think it does a beautiful job of kind of walking you through, like, how to find that fulfilling life when, even when life hurts. And so he does a beautiful job talking about his experience as a parent. And some of the things that didn't, weren't turning out the way he had anticipated. But how he was able to slow down, figure out what was important to him use of mindfulness to really find that fulfillment and joy anyways, and then one of the like, most it's it's pretty simple app, but it's so it's not super high tech. But I think it's really effective. It's called Values card sort, it's a free app. I know you can get out an apple, I would guess you can get it on other like Androids and stuff as well.
But I like to use this as almost like my compass. So if there's a time where I'm just feeling kind of down or kind of stuck, anxious, like whatever some of those quote unquote difficult emotions are sometimes I'll pull that out. And just go through essentially goes through like some of the most common things people find valuable. And you sort them into piles. And then you take your top pile and sort that a little bit more. And ultimately, try and come down to like your top five, your top value. And I really find that helpful when I feel kind of stuck to be like, Okay, if this is what I'm thinking is really important right now, how are my choices may be lining up with that, so that I can like feel a little bit more sense of that fulfillment and hardiness. Those are the resources I think are really helpful.
Dr. Aurélia Bickler 22:51
Wonderful. And I thank you so so much, you know, this is a difficult topic, it feels it sounds easy. But when you think about it, let's just talk about happiness. It's it's just, it's a complex topic, with so many different layers. And I really appreciate you speaking to us about this both from again, a human perspective and a clinical perspective. And I'm so grateful. I'm grateful for your time. And again, thank you again for coming.
Thank you for joining us. Once again. I am Dr. Aurélia Bickler. Thank you so much to all of our listeners. Please stay safe. And until next time, search within. Connect to who you are, and let your inner happiness come through. Thank you. Stay tuned for our next podcast. Until then, breathe intentionally, laugh wholeheartedly. Connect within and towards people who inspire you and who bring you joy.