Better Me with BodyByBree
Better Me with BodyByBree
How to Avoid the Roommate Phase with Dr. Tracy Dalgleish
Unlock the secrets to maintaining a healthy, connected relationship during the often tumultuous postpartum period with insights from Dr. Tracy Dalgleish, a leading clinical psychologist and relationship expert. Discover how to navigate the "roommate phase" and manage the mental load of motherhood while addressing underlying resentment that signals unmet needs. Gain valuable strategies for effective communication and balancing parenting responsibilities to keep your relationship strong.
Dr. Tracy reveals how empathy and validation foster secure bonding, and offers practical examples to navigate conflicts while maintaining individuality. We also touch on the importance of self-reflection and detaching from a partner's negative mood, emphasizing differentiation and self-regulation.
Dr. Tracy Dalgleish is a clinical psychologist and relationship expert who is on a mission to help couples break old relationship cycles and find joy in their relationships again. She is the owner of Integrated Wellness, a mental health practice in Ottawa, Ontario, and has been working with individuals and couples for 17 years. Her forthcoming debut book, I Didn't Sign Up for This: A Couples Therapist Shares Real-Life Stories of Breaking Patterns and Finding Joy in Relationships, features case studies from her practice and her own relationship.
You can find Dr. Tracy on:
drtracyd.com
IG: @drtracyd
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Are you looking for a space where you will learn to improve your mental strength, emotional health and heal your insecurities from the inside out? Take the first step to living a more meaningful life with the Better Me with Body by Brie podcast. I'm your host, brie. I'm a certified personal trainer, entrepreneur and mother of three. I've helped empower thousands of women to take action through fitness, nutrition, meditation, personal development and aligning thoughts with action. This podcast is for those who are ready to feel inspired and motivated to live a more purposeful life. Let's grow together.
Speaker 1:Dr Tracy is a clinical psychologist and relationship expert who is on a mission to help couples break old relationship cycles and find joy in their relationships again. She is the owner of integrated wellness, a mental health practice in Ottawa, ontario, and has been working with individuals and couples for 17 years. Dr Tracy has extensive training in emotionally focused therapy and has been published in books, journals and online media. Her forthcoming debut book, I Didn't Sign Up For this A Couple's Therapist, shares real-life stories of breaking patterns and finding joy in relationships, including her own. It features case studies from her practice and her own relationships. It features case studies from her practice and her own relationships. The book helps readers learn how to get unstuck in their relationships. Dr Tracy lives in Ottawa with her husband and two children. Hi, dr Tracy. Welcome to the podcast. How are you?
Speaker 2:Hi, brie, I'm well. Thank you so much for inviting me here. I am so excited to have this conversation with you.
Speaker 1:Well, I have been a big fan of yours for a while and I was trying to decide even what topic to focus on, because you are so well-versed that we could do an entire podcast episode on every single one of your Instagram posts because they're so informative and so helpful. I just am really excited for my listeners to just learn from you and all of your knowledge. So thank you for being on. Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2:I'm so glad to hear that it's a funny truth about sharing information on Instagram. Each post can provide so much information, but at the same time, we need to deep dive into each one, every one of those conversations.
Speaker 1:Yes, I know it. So that's what I'm going to try to do. I picked some of my favorite topics that I think would help my listeners the most and we can kind of talk about it All right. So, dr Tracy, when I think back on the hardest times in my marriage, and even talking to my friends, like I'm sure you've heard of the roommate phase I'm sure you've heard of you know, just, I don't know you just kind of lose your spark. For me it's always during the postpartum phase. That's. That's the hardest for me. Have you noticed that in your, with your practice and your clients?
Speaker 2:Oh, a hundred percent Brie, and not just with my clients and in my practice, but also within my own marriage and relationship, because so much changes in that postpartum period and it's really hard to prioritize the relationship. So in one way I really want to say to those listening that if you do find yourself in those periods of feeling like roommates, I want you to know that this is a common experience and it's also one that you can start making small shifts that have big impact in your relationship.
Speaker 1:So I know you talked about. I mean, for me it's always like I get so much resentment after I have a baby that it's all on me. I just feel like the weight of the load of motherhood and it's just exhausting and for some reason my husband's helpful. He's incredible and I still am. Like you're a man, you have no idea what this is like. So I know you did a post on the mental load of motherhood. Can you share your thoughts on why it's so difficult and why you feel like maybe this is the time that people kind of fall into that roommate phase or kind of fall into a rut with their marriage?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think they're all interconnected in some way. So in a sense that when we have so, let's go back to that postpartum period. So when we have a baby, so much changes, whether it's your first, your second, third or fourth, and what shows up is the sense of two people being sleep deprived. Their focus and energy is going towards a dependent little being or multiple little beings. It becomes harder to sit down and to find those moments of connection that you would have had in other moments or other seasons of your relationship. And so when you are in that stage, that difficult season, you do feel more like two ships passing in the night, and when you're not on the same boat, you're not experiencing those small moments of connection, and those moments are what help us to communicate our needs and to get our needs met at the same time. So for both people to feel that way, and we know that resentment is actually signaling something really important in the relationship, I think of resentment as an iceberg, where the tip of the iceberg, the part that we see, the smaller part, is the feeling of resentment, but it's a secondary emotion and it's made up of several different emotions and what we see underneath. So the mass of the iceberg we know is much bigger than the tip that we see is all kinds of other emotions, things like envy, which tells us something that we need and we don't have. Jealousy, anxiety, fear, sadness, loss, pain and so resentment. How I understand it is that something in a relationship is signaling that you are not getting your needs met, either because you're not communicating them, which many people struggle to do Many women are conditioned and taught not to communicate what their needs are or because you've communicated it and either it's communicated in a way where your partner can't understand it, or that they're not able to meet your needs and they don't understand what it is typically mothers hold in their mind, and that is.
Speaker 2:It's not just about dropping your kids off at daycare, it's not just about doing bath time or putting them to bed. It's actually calculating in your mind what needs to happen before nap time or bedtime, or how you need to go to the grocery store to buy the certain lunch item, because that's the only one that your child eats, and you are on the last one. And so you're holding all this cognitive load in your mind, and women tend to be the ones that carry a higher mental load, on top of being more of the default parent. And so, of course, naturally then, as mom, when you're carrying all of these things, your buckets start to empty your buckets for connection, your buckets for attention, your buckets for feeling like yourself and your own identity. And then, when you're emptying your own buckets and you're not getting your needs met, then we fall into resentment.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. This literally just happened yesterday because we were getting home from a trip and I was like getting anxiety, like a tight chest over everything I had to do.
Speaker 2:when I got home, like I was like, oh, I know, did you tell your partner about that anxiety and about all of that list?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I was trying to tell him. I was like, cause he's always like you're so anxious, just chill out. And I was like well, the reason, honey, is because you only have to focus on work. I have to focus on work and raising the children. I have to go to the grocery store, I have to plan out all of our meals for this week. I have to make sure that we sign up for the fun run. I got to do the deposit for Liv's theater and I'm naming, I'm rattling off everything in my mind. I couldn't even sleep last night because I had so much in my mind that I had to do and I'm like you only have to worry about work. That's it, just work.
Speaker 2:And I think you're describing a really common experience is that one person is navigating a really heavy load at home with the children and the other person navigates work, and that starts to feel not fair in the management of the household. Because then, brie, what ends up happening is you become the CEO, you become the manager, you become the manager, and what many people end up telling me is, they say, it triggers me, it overwhelms me, it sends me into rage, when my partner says just tell me how to help. And it's rage inducing, let's say, because it's the sense of so on top of me knowing all that needs to be done, now I have to tell you what to do, and again, I'm in the CEO role, and so this is a huge challenge for couples that I believe are really trying to change the narrative and the experience, especially for mothers, because it's not possible for you to manage all of the household, the childcare, all of the emotional labor in the relationship, all of the relational labor in the relationship, all of the relational labor in the relationship.
Speaker 1:Right and working. I work as much as he works, but I also have another job.
Speaker 2:Right, right, so you. On top of that, and one of the common things that I hear in partnerships is when one partner is working outside of the home, they say well, I'm working outside of the home, and I think we really need to step away from that, because what allows our partners to leave the home and to do this work is the fact that you are doing all of these other things.
Speaker 1:Definitely I did notice, and you tell me what you tell your clients to do to help the resentment. Um, and he is really like I I don't want to harp on my husband cause he's super helpful. I think it's just like hard for men to fully grasp what we go through. So it did. It did help, though, like you know how, at night, when you're trying to get all the kids in bed and you finally get them to bed, and then it's like I have to go down and finish cleaning the kitchen, you know, and it's like, but then they're like, well, I work today, so I'm going to zone out and watch a show, but I'm like, well, that'd be nice for me too If I could relax and watch a show, but I have to do the kitchen, you know, and I have to fold the laundry now that the kids are in bed. So it did help me to explain that to him. Like, hey, I'm tired too. Would you mind helping me?
Speaker 1:so that we can go to bed at the same time, instead of you know and like, if you see me doing the dishes, like, just come help me do the dishes.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And that helped a lot, like he was like oh yeah, for sure I can do that, and he has been doing that, and it really takes the edge off, because then I feel like we're in it together, we're parenting together, like when he is home he's helping, and so that makes me feel like we're a partnership, you know, and that really helped me a ton. The last little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you're highlighting something that's so important is that, instead of you being the CEO, we want to find a way to be a partnership, which means that the invisible work or the invisible labor needs to be highlighted, and so that you can both say, okay, you know what. We're both working during the day, we're both tired and we both also run the household and we both are also responsible for the children, and so are there certain tasks that partner so those listening are there certain tasks that your partner can take ownership of and take full responsibility for. So one of the conversations my husband and I actually had was around closing up the house, because every night we would get into bed and I was the one who did all the running around to clean the kitchen, put away the clothes, picked up the stuff, and then my husband would already be in bed. And then I would get in bed and we'd start to close our eyes and I would say did you lock the car? And I explained to him that it was because I was going through this closing up the house checklist of doing all of these things, and that it didn't feel and I said this to him it didn't feel fair that all of this was on me, and so we started to really make visible what those tasks were and what the mental to-do list was.
Speaker 2:And, bria, I think the challenge in our partnerships, especially with our young children and especially in the postpartum period, is that couples spend very little time talking together and connecting because of the demands on them in parenthood, and so research actually shows that partners spend. So parents of young children spend less than 30 minutes a week talking together, and most of that time is transactional points of conversation, meaning where are the splash pants? Are you making lunch tomorrow? Are you doing drop off? Okay, I have to be here at this, right, that's transactional, and so then it becomes harder then to check in with each other, which is one of the top things that I say to parents. You need to find at least 10 minutes a day so some people can do it at the end of the day and talk about the day, talk about what's going to happen the next day.
Speaker 2:If that's not possible, 10 to 20 minutes on a Monday night or on a Thursday night or Sunday night to be able to check in with each other and say, okay, what's something stressful that's happening for you this week, how can I support you? How are we doing in terms of the division of the load? What are some things that need to change? Because, again, what commonly shows up is you're saying that if your husband goes and lays down afterwards and you're there doing all of the things, that's the experience of resentment right there is that you are having to choose to go and complete these tasks and he is choosing to just go and sit down, and so how do you navigate that as a couple, then? So part of that is being able to say, hey, there are all of these tasks that we need to do to close up the house. And while one partner might say, hey, there are all these tasks that we need to do to close up the house, and while one partner might say, well, we'll just leave the dishes for tomorrow, then the other one can say, actually, starting the day with a dirty kitchen overwhelms me and it's not a great start.
Speaker 1:And we had that conversation last night. He's like honey you're tired, just go to bed. I'm like, well then, I'm going to have to do it in the morning when everyone's trying to go to school, right?
Speaker 2:right, so it doesn't really solve the issue. Then does it, and again, you're still managing it. So for listeners who haven't yet come across it one of the books I recommend in addition to my own book.
Speaker 2:But one of the books I recommend is called Fair Play by Eve Vronsky, and she really breaks down tasks in the household using her system of the CPE, which is each task in the house has almost like a beginning, middle end. There's a conceptualization, planning and execution. And one of the reasons why women struggle so much with resentment is because we do all of the C, all the conceptualization, we do all of the planning, but we only offload the execution of a task. And I know this because I even remember I was home with the two kids.
Speaker 2:My husband would be navigating the meltdowns in the morning and I would be having a shower, taking the only time I would get by myself that day, and then on his way out the door he was already late for work. I say, don't forget the ketchup. And then he would get home and I would say where's the ketchup? Because I knew we needed ketchup. I knew that in order to have chicken fingers, which is all that one kid was eating at the time, we're going to have that and I need ketchup. And then he gets home and there's no ketchup. But of course, because I own the grocery list, I own what we need at different shopping points or what's for dinner, and he didn't.
Speaker 2:Yep, so then did you get mad that he forgot the ketchup, of course I did.
Speaker 1:You're like that's the one thing you needed to do, right, but?
Speaker 2:then I mean again, we go back to this, which is the okay. So if he actually took ownership of food and if he was making the dinners, and if he was making the grocery list and planning things out, he would know what's in the fridge. But the reality is that many women are doing all of that and then just offloading the visible tasks to their partner. So, for people listening, take one task that you are doing, that you've already done today, and I want you to break that down in terms of other parts of that task. So, if you dressed your child this morning, I want you to now identify the different things that you've done in order to dress your child.
Speaker 2:First, you had to at some point, know what size your kid is. You had to know what season it is and what they needed in advance. You had to know the shoe size. Did they need new shoes? Did they need indoor shoes or outdoor shoes for school? All of those pieces. And now I want you to then take all of those steps that you do and just share it with your partner, not in a look at all of the things that I do, but rather look at all of the things that are involved in just dressing our child in the morning and this awareness and openness to having these conversations is a great start in dealing with the mental load.
Speaker 1:That is a good, and I did notice one thing my husband and I started implementing that was so helpful is we'll do Sunday night check-ins, so kind of like what you just said. Like every Sunday night we go through okay, what's going on this week as far as sports, can you drive them to the football game? Will you be home to take them to practice? Can can you help in any way? Here's everything we have to do. What can you do to help? And that has been huge for us, because then I feel like we're just on the same page and it's like here's everything that needs to be done. What can you do and what can I do? Let's divvy this out, and it helped tremendously.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're starting to be more of a team, rather than you being the CEO and saying on a whim oh we need more ketchup. Right, it's more of yes, and also framing it for our partners, not in a way of I'm so overwhelmed and I need help. Yes, that's important to share, but also in the way of we are both equal partners and contributors to this family and having this conversation helps us to be on the same page so that you and I can feel more connected. To be on the same page so that you and I can feel more connected. There is no greater killer for desire in a relationship than feeling like you are your partner's mother or caregiver.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm like, I don't want to be a nag. I say that all the time. I just want you to do it without me having to nag.
Speaker 2:Right, and so that also comes back to socialization of boys and girls. And while that's not an excuse for anybody to learn or uplearn and grow and evolve, I think it's important to recognize that a lot of boys were taught in the 80s 90s to not feel, to not be sad, to not express their emotions, and then they also saw their mothers do everything in the home, so they didn't have that model necessarily of that fair share parenting and caring for the home?
Speaker 1:Yep, definitely, it's definitely shifting, I feel and my husband always jokes he's like my grandma would roll in her grave if she saw me vacuuming right now yes.
Speaker 1:She was very against men doing anything. So it is hard to kind of break that generational, you know, that culture that he was kind of raised with. But it's gotten better every time. Exactly what you said, the more we communicate. And even if, like, I'm like, hey, I'm feeling you know resentful because this happened, Can you explain why? And I just talked to him more, he's like oh, I had no idea. Like I'm sorry here, let me help you here, Then I'm not sitting there stewing in it.
Speaker 1:I just bring it up. He gets it, he can jump in. It's been so, so great, so I really appreciate you talking about that. One other thing I did want to talk about well, not one other, I had a couple but is about emotional validation and how it's used to strengthen a marriage. Can you talk more about that?
Speaker 2:Yes, validation is such a key skill that we need in our relationships, in all relationships, and oftentimes when I talk about this, a lot of people will say, oh, I'm doing this with my kids. And yes, absolutely, because this is about building secure bonding. Absolutely, because this is about building secure bonding. Validation and empathy are the ability to go into another person's experience without the kind of just like, oh, it'll be fine, don't worry about it. And when we don't feel seen, understood or validated, it makes it really hard to be able to make sense of our experience.
Speaker 2:The challenge I see in couples is often one partner, so typically we know it's typically the women buying books or reading the blog posts, listening to the podcasts on relationships. Oftentimes we come to this place of acknowledgement where it sounds like, oh, I just need my partner to validate me. Okay, I need them to validate me more, and learning this skill is really important. But then we need to make a decision about what we want to do next with it, and sometimes that means sharing a blog post or a podcast and being able to say this is something that would be really helpful in our relationship. So what is validation? Validation sounds like I see you are having an experience. Your experience is real to you and I can sit in that beside you. It's not fixing, it's not problem solving or suggesting in any way, and for many people it's hard to do because what ends up happening is our own stuff shows up, ends up happening is our own stuff shows up and it kind of softens you too, oh, you're like okay, I still I feel seen, I feel validated.
Speaker 1:Now I can move on. It's kind of like you just want to like sometimes I'll tell Adam stuff and if he just is like that would be hard, you are dealing with a lot. I'm super grateful that you're doing all this for our family. I just watch you make dinner every night and that is so hard to like. He's like you don't have to make dinner every night and you sit and make a really nice dinner for our family and that means so much to me and I'm just like thank you. That makes me want to keep doing it because you appreciate it, you validate how hard it is.
Speaker 2:Right, yes, and so that, I think, is sometimes being able to tell our partners that, and it's not just something that men do.
Speaker 2:Sometimes we as women do too.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking of a client who's telling me that her husband was feeling anxious about something and then she jumped into problem solving mode, and how she gets frustrated because he should just do the thing. And so, even within ourselves, it's important to recognize when we don't validate someone else because we're struggling with something. I'm thinking, bree, of some common examples that show up so as one partner is sharing an emotion or a struggle, so, like you were doing with your husband, oftentimes what one partner does is they take it in to themselves. It's almost like filtering it in into their sense of worthiness. So if you say I'm so overwhelmed, this is such a busy time, the dishes are piling up, I'm exhausted, I think I need you to help out in some other ways, et cetera, et cetera, then sometimes what our partners do is they spiral into shame and instead of acknowledging that, what then comes in response is so you're saying I'm not doing enough. You're saying I'm not good enough. So you're saying I'm not a good. You're saying I'm not good enough, so you're saying I'm not a good parent and I think this is really important for us to recognize, because what ends up happening and I've talked about this in my community as well is that then partners end up spiraling and the key issue gets lost. So if your partner so I'll do both sides If your partner is someone that goes into that spiral and you're like, whoa, what are we talking about? Now we're talking about you not doing enough. One of the best things we can do is to pause that conversation and to say I think you're talking about something really important and this isn't what we started talking about, but I want to come back to it. If this is really important, if you're not feeling good enough in our relationship, I want us to come back and talk about it. Right now, I'm saying I'm really struggling and I need you to see my struggle. This isn't about you being good enough. This is about me just saying I'm exhausted, I'm struggling. We've got to reevaluate that. So what I'm doing right. There is something I talk a lot about in my book and I show stories of how I do this with couples which is we're practicing building interdependence and building differentiation, which means I am me, you are you and we are two separate people and we're both okay. I love that. And so then let me just flip.
Speaker 2:Then, if your partner comes to you and says you need to help out and you're not doing enough, and perhaps they come to you in a more angry or overwhelmed or dysregulated state, and you always have a choice I think this is so important in our relationships. It's one of the most powerful things we can remember. We always have a choice in how we are going to respond to somebody. We can slow things down and take a breath. That pause is about becoming aware of what's happening inside of you. Okay, my partner is coming to me. This is a really hard moment. It doesn't feel good. I want to get defensive in return, but instead this is where you sink into validating the other person's reality. It doesn't mean that they are right. It means you're seeing some piece of what's happening for them and you can say things like wow, well, just Brie, as you gave some beautiful examples. Wow, this is really hard. I see you're struggling. There's something.
Speaker 1:I love that so much. I feel like this is all of all of this. Advice is really emotional maturity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're building self-awareness and self-reflective abilities, and it's hard because, for many of us, we didn't learn how to do this as children.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is hard, cause I don't there's there really is not a class on marriage. And so that's why people like you are so valuable to help share this.
Speaker 1:So, that's so helpful. What you just shared One of your Instagram posts that I really loved is that you said the root cause of you feeling disconnected from your partner isn't the kids, the dishes or sex, and that a grandiose gesture like a vacation or chore chart will not fix the root cause. What do you feel is the root cause and some actionable items that our listeners can do? When they're feeling disconnected from their partner.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oftentimes that disconnection is because we are getting stuck in negative cycles. I have a quiz on my website that it's not a psychodiagnostic, it's not a research validated test, but it's a fun quiz to provide information to people and it's to help you identify the negative cycle that you and your partner get stuck in. And these negative cycles end up being filled with increased negative affect and unmet attachment needs and longings. And we've almost dabbled in it a little bit Brie in our conversation today, but we haven't explicitly said it. Those core needs are things like to know that I'm important to you, to know that I matter, to know my worthiness, that I'm enough, a core need of attention, a core need of feeling, a sense of belonging, and so oftentimes we are fighting about the dishes or sex or kids and what's underneath. That is really a deeper desire for some other need or longing, which is often around. Do you see me? Do you understand and hear me? Do I matter to you?
Speaker 1:I love that and I feel like what you focus on expands too. So if you're feeling that way and you see your partner in a certain light, oh look, he always discards my feelings and that's all you focus on.
Speaker 2:That's all you see too, a hundred percent, and so I encourage people then, when, when you have an experience, that initial moment so for example, the anxiety you were experiencing in the car last night it would have been so easy to project that outward and put that on your partner and say you never do anything, I have to do all of this stuff on my own, but instead you slow it down and you ask yourself what's happening inside of my body right now.
Speaker 2:Okay there is something right here that doesn't feel good. Oh, I feel tension in my chest. So you're actually tuning into what's happening inside of you and you ask yourself what's happening for me in this moment. So oftentimes our first initial emotion is a secondary emotion. It's more of a protective emotion and we also like to project that outward. So anger, frustration, resentment, even. And then, if we slow it down and say what's underneath this and sometimes that might take a little bit of time I teach people how to do it inside my membership space and also in my book. But you can slow it down, go inwards and ask yourself what's really happening here, and that is one way that we can start to uncover what it is that we need and long for in our relationship.
Speaker 1:Ooh, I love that that was so good.
Speaker 2:There's lots of layers in there. I know we won't get to it today, but part of it is also the sense of when I look to my partner. Am I asking them to give me something that's not possible? Am I asking them to change? And that's not what we want to be doing in our relationship? So I always want to give a caveat that recognizing a podcast episode doesn't fill all of the questions, but I'm so glad that you and I are scratching the surface on this conversation.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think it's good just to do some self-reflection.
Speaker 1:Like a lot of times. We're always sitting there going my partner does this, my partner does that, but what are we doing? Just like you said, you know, when I get in an unhealthy space, I will. I will be like Adam, this is all on me and he's like I've literally been putting the kids to bed every night, or you know, yeah, like I put, I do that, I get immature and I'm like I lash out. I do that, I get immature and I lash out. Definitely where I'm thinking I have a singular way of seeing a situation and it's favored towards me and not seeing all the things Adam is doing, that is incredible and that he's a great dad and he's so helpful. So I think just this, what you just said, this self-reflection, is so valuable to kind of see okay, where where can I start? And that really is with us.
Speaker 2:That's where we can start, yeah, so.
Speaker 1:I love that I've already learned so much from you All, right. Before we wrap this up, I have one last question to ask you that I think help. I need help with Right so, and probably others. But how do we detach from our partner's mood so that it doesn't affect us so much?
Speaker 2:I'm so glad that you asked this and I cover this more in depth in my book. And my book talks all about building interdependence and oftentimes what we do is we take our partner's mood and it's almost like we don't have a filter on, so it comes right into us and we personalize it, we take it to mean something about us and this emotional fusion, in a way, is like saying I've lost the self and I'm swallowed up in your mood and it doesn't feel good. Now that you're in a bad mood, I'm in a bad mood or I think it's all about me. But what we want to be practicing in our relationships is that differentiation, and differentiation first asks us to become aware of what's happening moment to moment, so I can first become aware that, oh, I'm having a reaction to my partner's negative mood. That's really hard.
Speaker 2:The second piece is to build some self-regulation, which means in this moment maybe I can take a pause and I can breathe and I can remind myself that I'm okay. We also want to practice depersonalization, so being able to say my partner is a separate person from me. They are allowed to struggle, they're allowed to have hard feelings. It doesn't mean it's about me. And I'd like to give a caveat to this, because I know some people will say well, what if they're slamming doors or cupboards or they're speaking sharply to me? And being able to differentiate from your partner's bad mood is much different than tolerating disrespectful behavior or behavior that's against your values. So you are able to say to your partner hey, it's okay to be frustrated at the end of the day, it's okay to be upset when you've come home and you've had a hard day. I will make space for that.
Speaker 2:It's not okay to slam cupboards or it's not okay to speak to me that way, and that's an important piece because, for parents, you're also modeling to your kids that this is something that we don't do, so I always think that's really important in terms of and setting your boundary.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Your boundary is what you want or don't want to happen.
Speaker 2:But remember you can't control other people, so be prepared that if they're still going to speak sharply to you, that you say, okay, I see you're struggling, we're going to pick the kids up and I'm going to go to the park with them and I'll be back in 20 minutes so that you have a plan of how you're going to shift out of that so that you don't spiral. Or you say, okay, hey, love, yeah, you're still slamming cupboards, I'm going to ask you to go for a walk. I'm going to ask you to go for a walk. But so, separating from your partner's mood then comes back to the remembering that piece of differentiation, which is I have the ability to become aware of, to reflect on and then to be able to communicate what's happening for me, and recognizing that my partner can do the same thing. We are two separate people and I think one of the most powerful things we can do is just say, yeah, they're in a bad mood and unless they tell me that I've done something to upset them, I'm going to assume neutrality.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that so much. I heard a quote once that said my partner's happiness is not dependent on me. And when I first heard it I was like, well, that's mean. Of course you should try to make your partner happy, but it was more talking about. Exactly what you said is that you're both separate individuals and you both need to be happy separately so that you can have a happy marriage together. You can't be so dependent on your partner to make you happy.
Speaker 2:Right and one of the ways I understand that too. So, yeah, there's a lot of expressions or tropes. In some ways it's like happy wife, happy life, or you now married, you now need to make sure you both go to bed happy at the end of the day, and that's just not possible because for humans and lots of things happen, and here's the thing that we know about the emotion of happy. Happiness is not something that you can strive for. It's a side effect of what you choose to do in life. So, choosing to do things that are meaningful, you are more likely then to experience happiness, but by no means are you responsible to make your partner happy in their life.
Speaker 1:I love that man, You're good. Let's talk about I. Really, before we wrap this up, I want you to talk about your book so we can tell everyone about it, because this is exciting.
Speaker 2:Thank you, brie. My book is out in the world and you can grab it by Kindle or paperback, or it's also on Audible. I narrated it. This is not what my voice normally sounds like. I have to apologize. My voice is going for the end of the day, but my book is called-.
Speaker 1:I think it's beautiful.
Speaker 2:Thank you it's called. I Didn't Sign Up For this. A couple's therapist shares real life stories of breaking patterns and finding joy in relationships, including her own, and I wanted to share the real stories of everyday struggles that couples have, in the hopes that people can start to see themselves reflected back in the stories and to also know that their struggle is normal and that there's a way through that disconnection that so many people feel in their relationships.
Speaker 1:I love that so much. I can't wait. I'm going to get it because I want to read it too. I think you're just amazing.
Speaker 2:We didn't even get to half of the things that I wanted to ask you. I know you had a list.
Speaker 1:We didn't get to that. I know I'm like. I still want to know about the five things to avoid making it worse when you apologize and what to do when you hurt your partner. So if you guys, how do you detach from your partner's mood so it doesn't affect you so much? So, if you guys, how do you detach from your partner's mood so it doesn't affect you so much? So, if you guys want to know more about these topics? She has a great Instagram. Do you want to tell people where they can find you?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely you can, and please. I love hearing from people Send me a DM on Instagram Say hello. It's at DrTracyD. I also have several resources on my website, drtracydcom. All the book details are also there. One of my favorite pieces, brie, is my 100 questions to build connection. So if you are feeling like roommates or if you've got a date night coming up, download my questions. I have a hundred there's in. That's in in there. My husband and I took them on a date night one night and we had lots of fun, so hopefully people will take a look.
Speaker 1:I love that. Yeah, I feel like sometimes you get in a rut on the date where you just talk about the kids the whole time, so that's a great way to get out of that rut. What a great tool. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I think we learned a lot from you. I can't wait for my readers to hopefully get your book and check out your Instagram.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, brie, and thank you to everyone who joined us.
Speaker 1:All right, I'll talk to you later. Thank you for joining us in today's episode. If you liked the content and want to hear more, remember to hit that subscribe button and write a review. As a small business owner, I appreciate it more than you know. If you are looking for a program to help with self-confidence, to lose weight, get in shape and work on your mental, physical and emotional health, check out my training programs on wwwbodybybreecom. My team and I help to hold you accountable through the Body by Bree app, where you log in to see all your workouts, custom meal plan made specifically for you and your needs, and communication through the messenger. You are never alone when you're on the Body by Brie training program. Click the link in the show notes to get more information on how to transform your life from the inside out.
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