The Fuzzy Mic
After retiring from a 30-year, major market morning radio career, I'm often asked what I miss the most about the job. I miss 3 C's...camaraderie, creativity but most of all, conversation.
The Fuzzy Mic is built around creativity and conversation to develop camaraderie. The 4 focus areas are: Mental Health, True Crime, Music and Sports.
So, while The Fuzzy Mic allows me to fill some professional voids, it's my sincere hope that maybe you'll find something personally fulfilling in it too.
The Fuzzy Mic
Out of the Depths of Darkness: An Amish Woman's Story of Transformation and Triumph
When Naomi Swartzentruber steps away from the simplicity of her Swartzentruber Amish roots into a world brimming with complexity, her life takes turns that most could scarcely imagine.
Our conversation with her is nothing short of a riveting odyssey, tracing her path from a childhood devoid of modern luxuries to a whirlwind of exploitation and resilience that would forge her into the empowered woman she is today. Her narrative, penned in "The Amazing Adventures of an Amish Stripper," is an unvarnished account of battling against the currents of addiction and the pursuit of healing through self-love and writing.
Our foray into Naomi's world transcends her personal saga, touching upon universal themes of identity, forgiveness, and the human capacity for transformation. Naomi's trajectory from an Amish upbringing to her new role on social media is a testament to the strength of the human spirit and the boundless possibilities that await when one dares to rewrite their story.
Welcome to the Fuzzy Mike, the interview series, the podcast, whatever Kevin wants to call it. It's Fuzzy Mike. Hello, I'm Kevin Kline and thank you for joining me for another episode of the Fuzzy Mike, where we get entertaining conversation about mental health and self-improvement. What happens when a young girl raised in one of the strictest Amish sects, the Swartzentruber Amish in Michigan? What happens when she decides to leave that life behind at 17 to live in a world she doesn't realize she's completely unequipped to navigate? For my guest, naomi Schwarzentruber, that decision plummets her into a hell that nearly kills her.
Speaker 1:Three times Naomi's book, the Amazing Adventures of an Amish Stripper, an erotic memoir, which is available on Amazon. It's not for the faint of heart. I read the entire book. The eroticism is blush-worthy, the exploitation she endured is absolutely infuriating and, honestly, many of her own decisions will leave you frustrated, and that's understated. I don't recall the last time a book has given me reactions this visceral, now likely, much to my wife's dismay. I wanted to start this conversation off with Naomi, to kind of bond with her, ok, and so I let her know that I live in rural Missouri and whenever my wife and I drive north to Kansas City we pass seven horse and buggy signs that say share the road.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:And so when my wife and I see believe they're Amish I don't know if they're Amish or Mennonite, you can maybe tell us a difference but we don't call them Amish or Mennonite, we call them share the roads oh, that's awesome there's some share the roads that's awesome so let's talk about your story, because the book is. There are times in that book, Naomi, where I want to grab you by the shoulders and shake you.
Speaker 2:I know right.
Speaker 1:No, like more often than not, and so we're going to get into this book. But I want to talk about so the book is called the Amazing Adventures of Amish Stripper, an erotic memoir. Reading it, I felt like I was cheating on my wife a couple of times. Holy smokes, dude.
Speaker 2:I know right, it's very spicy. The radic seeds are very spicy, so Very spicy.
Speaker 1:I'm going to say that this is like ghost pepper spicy. It's a very intriguing memoir and to get to where you are now, we have to start at the beginning. Tell us about growing up Amish, because you were. You were Amish until you were 17, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, so I was born into the Swartzentruber Amish, which is one of the strictest sects, because there's a lot of different kinds of Amish strict and less strict and I was one of the strictest ones. And there we have to wear long dresses down to our ankles and they all like our. We can't roll the sleeves past our elbows, our hair has to be covered and we have to wear a bonnet and we can only wear dark colors. And as a little Amish girl I always liked the color pink, but it was forbidden and it was almost taboo to talk about. So I am now. I love pink and I like to wear lots of pink.
Speaker 2:But back then I couldn't and we had. We farmed with the horses. There were no tractors, no cars, and we traveled by horse and buggy as well. If it was too far to go with horse, a horse and buggy, we would. One of our neighbors would take us in their vehicle. So we were allowed to travel in vehicles, but not drive them, obviously, and to travel between states we would travel by greyhound or train. And then we had a big farm. When I grew up, we had over 20 milking cows. We milked the cows by hand. We had 150 chickens.
Speaker 2:So by the age of five I was waking up early and setting the table. I would feed the chickens and fill the wood box and help with cooking and cleaning and things like that Obviously not like full on like my mom did, but I would help her out even at a very young age and I actually enjoyed it because it made me feel like I was part of the family by helping out. That's what my whole family did. We helped each other out and we had three meals a day that we sat together and ate and that was always. My favorite time was mealtime, because we all got to be together and joke and laugh and talk about our day.
Speaker 2:And there's 12 of us. I have seven brothers and four sisters and I'm number four, so I come from a large family and I went to school when I was started school, when I was six, and they only go to eighth grade. We have a one room schoolhouse with about 20 to 30 students, one teacher. Sometimes, if there's closer to 30 students, the teacher has a helper and the teachers are someone that's out of school but not yet married.
Speaker 1:Generally, so when you say one of the strictest sects in Amish, you guys did not have indoor plumbing.
Speaker 2:We did not have indoor plumbing. We did not have indoor plumbing. We had an outhouse. Now, growing up until I was 12, until my parents bought a farm, we rented a farm and we lived in a tiny. It was a tiny little house and there were 11 kids already in three bedrooms. It was super tiny and there the outhouse was like set back from the house. Bedrooms. It was super tiny and there the outhouse was like set back from the house and we would, even in the winter, like it was horrible. We had to go outside and when I was there we did not use toilet paper, we would use newspaper and we would like crumble it up to make it softer. And I remember going to my grandma's house and there was toilet paper and we always kind of choked like, oh, she's too fancy or too good to use newspaper. But after I left and I would go back to visit now my family uses toilet paper too. But yeah, it was not fun to go outside to use the outhouse in the winter.
Speaker 1:So what do you do for showers and bathing when it's you're in Michigan at this time and Michigan is very cold in the winter?
Speaker 2:Yes, so in the winter we actually so our kitchen in this little house we had, like it was like a separation One side was for the kitchen table, the other side was our cooking stove. So we only took a bath in the winter once a week, which was Saturday nights, and we had to heat up all the water for everyone and we had a big galvanized tub. A couple of kids would take a bath and then we had to heat up all the water for everyone and we had a big galvanized tub. A couple of kids would take a bath and then we have to use buckets and empty out the tub and refill it and heat the water and stuff like that. But we heated, we used the wood stove in the kitchen and that's where we would take a bath in the winter, and in the summer we would do it in the wash house.
Speaker 1:And the wash house was very close to our house. You guys had a generator. If I read correctly in the book, you had a generator. What?
Speaker 2:was that used for? We didn't have like a okay I guess maybe they're kind of like generators. We couldn't have like a generator generator. But they're little honda engines and if that makes sense they're like the little. You can buy them at harper freight. I don't even know where my parent, why, my dad got them, but you can. We would use those to run the washing machine and also to pump the water from the well and to run the the table saw to cut lumber. So we were allowed to use those little honda engines to do things like that. And my dad also had a sawmill which took a big engine and he had a big stationary diesel engine that he ran a belt from the sawmill to this engine and that's how he operated his sawmill.
Speaker 1:And you said that if you're going across state lines, you have to go by train or bus. Where do you get the money for those tickets?
Speaker 2:Well, back when I was there we made money from the farm, from milking cows. We would sell the milk and then my dad had the sawmill so we got he cut lots of lumber. We got money from that. We also sold baked goods and vegetables and things like that. So that's I mean growing up. My family was pretty poor, so they didn't travel that much. I actually only got to travel once when I was like two, between two and three I think, and I have very vague memories of it. My uncle got married in Ohio, so they don't travel that often, at least back then they didn't. I feel like they travel a lot more now than they used to.
Speaker 1:Okay, and you did not grow up exclusively with Amish neighbors. You had, and you call them, english neighbors, correct?
Speaker 2:Yes, everyone that's not Amish. We call them English. It doesn't matter what country they're, from, what language they speak, everyone's English. I'm English now too, according to my family. So yeah, so it.
Speaker 1:I mean, not only are you growing up in a very strict environment and you're limited in what your religion and your family will allow you to do, but right across the street you've got kids who have all these English freedoms. How did that play into your desire to leave?
Speaker 2:When I was 13,. We got new neighbors and they had a little daughter that was 11. And she was literally just as fascinated by us as we were by her and she started coming around all the time and my parents weren't happy but they kind of tolerated it. And we also started going to their house a little bit more. And that's when I opened my eyes. I was like, wow, she has a bicycle. I like opened my eyes. I was like, wow, she has a bicycle, she gets to wear sandals and paint her nails and wear colorful t-shirts and her hair is down and she can call her friends whenever she wants, she gets to watch tv and listen to the radio and that just really like. I was like, wow, that's so cool.
Speaker 2:And I started rebelling in my cousins for some reason, that kind of. At the same time. I don't know if it's because we were teenagers we just started opening our eyes and noticing things a little bit more and we started rebelling and like I bought English, a couple T-shirts and shorts and a pair of jeans from a yard sale when I was 15. And then I also wanted to buy English panties and my sister's from the yard sale and she's like you don't know where those were, like you can buy some at the dollar store next time or whenever we go to town. And sure enough, when we went to this store we went right to the panty rack and I was like wow it was amazing.
Speaker 1:In the book you actually describe wearing English panties, going to church, and the one thing that you did not consider was what People walking behind you Right, yes, I know, and I was actually.
Speaker 2:I did think about it because I remember when people would walk behind, I would walk behind my sisters or my mom. You could kind of see the outline of their Amish underwear and I would hope that no one would notice that I wasn't wearing mine. And then my cousins and I we would go in the outhouse and we would show each other our English panties and we thought we were so cool and awesome because we were wearing non-Amish underwear wearing non-Amish underwear, uh-huh.
Speaker 1:So were you the only one in your family with 11 siblings who wanted to become English, based on what you saw across the street and your neighbors who wanted to rebel?
Speaker 2:Or was there other siblings that decided you know what? I think that's a lifestyle for me too. So there's two girls and one boy older than me. I'm number four on the kids, my sister just older than me. Her and I actually planned on leaving together and we were going to run away with our two cousins that were the same age as us. But my sister and I and, ironically, my two cousins, they did run away, kind of to get not like it was pretty close together. And then my sister and I we actually got into an argument about this because we felt bad that if we both leave, mom only has one older, old enough daughter to help her work on the farm and we felt guilty or bad to leave her like that. And finally I was like you know what, if I just run away first, then it's up to her if she wants to choose to leave them behind. Like, I know it's selfish, I was selfish, but I was just, I just wanted to leave, so I left and then she left. I left in July and she ended up leaving in October that same year, but she went back eight months later and she's married and has, I think, 12 kids. 11 or 12 kids yeah, wow, she went back and the other than that I have.
Speaker 2:I always forget about this because I'm not used to it. Really, a couple years ago, one of my younger brothers left with his wife and four kids. So they are not Amish, but it's I don't know. It's kind of strange because kids, so they are not Amish, but it's I don't know. It's kind of strange because I know they're not Amish, but I don't remember to call them often because I'm not used to it. I think, and sometimes when I talk about it, people ask me I'm like no, I'm the only one that left, but I'm not. My brother left too.
Speaker 1:Well, what about your cousins? Your cousins that you grew up with, who were kind of rebellious, like you said?
Speaker 2:They left and they're still. Yeah, they're still English like I am, but my sister did go back.
Speaker 1:So that answers my question. You could go back.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely. I could go back anytime I want and they would accept me and take me in like nothing happened. I mean not maybe not like nothing happened, but I'm always welcome there. If I got married then it would be a little bit more challenging. I wouldn't be able to get remarried Amish unless my English husband died, because they don't believe in divorce. So once you're married there, that's it, and the only time they can get remarried is if, let's say, I was Amish and I married and my husband died. Then I could get married again, but other than that they can't.
Speaker 1:It really is till death. Do us part.
Speaker 2:Yes, no, it really is.
Speaker 1:But yeah.
Speaker 2:I could go back and my parents don't. Before when I would go, they really pushed it a lot. But now when I go, they always say you know, there's still, we still pray for you and if you ever want to come back, you're more than welcome to come back. But they're not like oh please come back, like they're not like begging me to come back like before. Yeah.
Speaker 1:How do Amish communicate without electricity and without, because you guys weren't allowed to have phones?
Speaker 2:No phones so they travel by somehow. You know, it's very interesting to me Somehow noose travels really fast among the Amish, like they know everything, even though they don't have TV or the noose or phones. But basically just when they see each other, they talk, they go by horse and buggy and I don't know. It's a very close knit community so they're very supportive of each other and they help each other out a lot and they see each other quite a bit, I guess, and every other Sunday they go to church.
Speaker 1:Is there an age at which an Amish boy or girl can take the reins of the buggy?
Speaker 2:Kind of. I mean, it's pretty young, usually when they start school like maybe like second or third grade. I know when I was in third grade I started to be able to take the reins and drive the buggy. And then my brother that was just younger than me we would actually argue sometimes because he's like I'm a boy and he was used to working in the fields and driving the big teams so he would oftentimes take the reins. But he did. Let me do it sometimes too, because it made me feel special to be able to drive the horse and buggy. And then, I don't know, I was probably like 10 to 12. I was able to go places by myself. I would take the horses. It was like my job to go take them to the I think it's called a farrier where you shoot the horses. So on Wednesdays I would take one of the horses and I don't know. I always loved it. I felt so free just riding in the bucky with the horse. It was very peaceful.
Speaker 1:How often do Amish go to church?
Speaker 2:Every other Sunday.
Speaker 1:That's it.
Speaker 2:That's it Every other Sunday, and so they work every day except Sundays and Sunday. They don't go to church. Either they stay home and rest and sleep and relax and play games, or they can go visit another Amish family, or another Amish family can come to their house, vice versa, but yeah, only every other Sunday.
Speaker 1:And is church held in church?
Speaker 2:No, it's held at people's houses. They take turns holding it at someone's house, so it has to be a married couple and someone that's in the same church in the district and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:And you, according to the book, you enjoyed the days where your family was the host right.
Speaker 2:It was fun. Your family was the host, right, it was fun. I didn't like leading up to it because we had to clean everything and it was like super busy and stressful. But the day of actual church I enjoyed it because we get to have like these we would make schnitz pies that we would bake on Fridays and we would usually only make them for church and they were for, like, the little kids. During the church they could eat them, but when church was at our house we got to eat them the leftover ones, and leading up to the church day, and they were made from dried apples and then they would soak them and they would make them into these little half moon pies called schnitz pies. So I always looked forward to that.
Speaker 1:Yes, All right Now. We have been talking about the Amish upbringing that you had, and I'm shocked to find out that Amish only go to church every other Sunday. But that's not the most shocking thing I learned from your book, naomi.
Speaker 2:Tell me about the singing and what happens after the singing when we're 16 and a half, we get to join the singing and that's where, after the singing, when we're 16 and a half, we get to join the singing and that's where, after the church at 8 pm, from 8 to 10, the kids that are 16 and a half and older that are not married gather and they sing and if they want to date someone, that's when the boy gets to ask the girl. I imagine the girl can ask the boy too, and if they agree and sometimes not even agree they, like everybody has. It's called schnitzing. It's the first date. Everybody has to do it once they joined the singing.
Speaker 2:So there was no boy in my community, in my district, that I was interested, no Amish guy that I was interested in. But because I had to do this, one Sunday night after the singing, some boys grabbed me and they're like who do you want to date? And I was like no one and I ripped away from them and I got a few feet and they caught me again Like more boys came to help and they threw me in the buggy with my second cousin and I was like, oh my gosh, this is horrible. But I was in the buggy. I was like, oh my gosh, this is horrible. But I was in the buggy, I was like I have to do this anyway, I might as well just get it over with.
Speaker 2:He tried to talk to me, I wasn't interested, and my sister. So they take the girl, the boy takes the girl back to the parents' house and they go into the girl's bed and they're supposed to like cuddle and kiss but not have sex. And I cuddle and kiss but not have sex and I didn't have my own bedroom. So my sister was like you can use my bedroom. And again he tried to, but I just I laid as far back to the wall as I could and I didn't let him touch me or kiss me and he finally gave up and he was just there till like 4 30 in the morning and then he left and I didn't sleep all night. I I was just like thank goodness he's gone.
Speaker 1:I wasn't interested 16 and a half years old and a date is to spend the night in your parents' house with another boy.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, that's how dating works in the Swartz and Trooper Amish. Dating among the Amish is not all the same. I just want to say, be clear, like they all have their own rules, like different sex, of how they date, but that was, that's how the Swartzentrum Amish do it, yes, and how is there?
Speaker 1:I guess you said that there could be kissing, there could be cuddling, but no sex. How is that enforced if there's nobody in the room with you?
Speaker 2:There's no one in the room and nobody ever talks to us about sex or anything like that, like it's never discussed. You're just expected to like. It's like this unspoken language, like you're expected to do this and not question it and not have sex. It happens sometimes and sometimes the girl gets pregnant and, for example, I have a couple of cousins that this happened to. They got pregnant, even a niece. She got pregnant and she was 17 or 18. So her and her boyfriend and they just got baptized and then they got married, when generally they don't get married until they're 21. And they had to get baptized at 18. The Amish, the Swartzentrub Amish, would get baptized and then generally at 21, they get married, but they had to do it sooner because she got pregnant. So it does happen and it actually happens quite a bit now, a lot more than it used to, I feel like when I was there.
Speaker 1:That was one of the frustrating things about the book. For me, naomi, is that you aren't taught sex in the Amish community and then at 17, you leave and you were exploited, you were taken advantage of.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I didn't realize it at the moment that I was being taken advantage of or exploited. I had no idea.
Speaker 1:Exactly, exactly. So let me ask you and when? When we talk about where you're at in your life right now, we'll go back to the fact that you only go to school until you're in eighth grade in the Amish community. But let's just jump right into. You leave, you actually run away. You leave, you actually run away. And who? Who were the people that picked you up?
Speaker 2:Well, it was.
Speaker 1:It was a couple actually but I didn't know that we'll call them, kevin and Christine, because that's their names in the book.
Speaker 2:But I met Kevin because my dad had the sawmill but I didn't know him very well and I was picking strawberries and by myself, and that's when I realized I was like, oh, maybe he could help me out, and I just blurted it out can I? I want to run away, please help me, I want to live with you. And he's like you're crazy, you can't do that. But they, I don't know. He exploited me even before I left, like he took me to the barn for a blow job and I know it was very uncomfortable, but after I left I didn't like I said I didn't know he had a wife and a son.
Speaker 2:I didn't leave to be with him and they picked me up and then I stayed with his mom for a couple months but I was lonely and bored there. So they remodeled their room in their house and let me stay there. And after, like I didn't know how to say no to him about sex, like I just and I. It was a horrible situation because Christine was like a mom to me, she was very kind and super nice to me, but yet here's her husband exploiting me and even like selling me to his. He didn't know that his neighbor was paying me for blowjobs, but I don't know it was. It was a very uncomfortable situation.
Speaker 1:Naomi in the in in the entire book. Naomi, you have a difficult time saying no to anybody and anything.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so and and and so my question then is did Kevin bring this out in you, or did the oppressive religion bring that out in you?
Speaker 2:I. That's the thing. Like I'm not sure. I really am not sure, but I feel sometimes like maybe it's because when I first left, kevin exploited me. Because when I first left, kevin exploited me, and so maybe that's how my thought process worked throughout my life for such a long time, because that's how I was conditioned when I first left. I didn't know how to say no to anyone and I just kept being exploited and exploited, and it was like a pattern throughout my life.
Speaker 1:It was a big pattern throughout your life.
Speaker 2:Yes, and it's probably also from being repressed, yes, and not knowing how to like deal with saying no to people or situations like that, because I wasn't taught about sex. So it's probably a little bit of both. That's what I'm guessing.
Speaker 1:Well, also in the community, that which you were, you were brought up in, if I'm not mistaken, no is not a word in a woman's vocabulary in the Amish.
Speaker 2:I mean we get to say no, but it's not. I don't know. It's I don't know because, like I didn't, I was only there until I was 17, and I feel like we were taught to be very obedient as children.
Speaker 1:That's a great word.
Speaker 2:Yes, so maybe it's part of not knowing how to say no, because I was raised to be obedient.
Speaker 1:So how different do you think your life would have turned out if you hadn't met, or had Kevin and Christina been the ones to pick you up when you ran away?
Speaker 2:I would hope that it would have been a lot more positive. I think I shoved down a lot of things and I just kept pushing them down. I think that's possibly why I got into drugs so deep. I was numbing myself because I never dealt with that and I felt such huge guilt for so long because I cheated on his wife like we cheated on her and I always felt like it was my fault because I didn't say no well, I'm going to take exception to that.
Speaker 1:Naomi, I don't think you cheated on his wife. I think Kevin forced you to cheat and you did not cheat on his wife. He cheated on his wife. I think Kevin forced you to cheat and you did not cheat on his wife.
Speaker 2:He cheated on his wife and he used you to do it, and I actually recently apologized to her and she said well, he was my husband and he should have known better. And she's like, don't blame yourself, because I just felt like I don't know, I felt like I needed closure and to move on from it. I had to apologize to her and I'm glad I did, because she read my book and she's like I always knew anyway because of the way you guys acted, but she's like it wasn't your fault. He was my husband and he should have known better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was, he was. Are they not together anymore?
Speaker 2:They're not together anymore.
Speaker 1:Imagine that.
Speaker 2:I know right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, imagine that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you ended up going back after you first ran away, I did my first boyfriend broke up with me and I was just at such a crossroads I didn't know. He took me to Minnesota and there I am, in a new state. Not many friends I was. I was terrified and I was very upset about the whole thing and I was like maybe my destiny is not to be English, maybe I'm destined to be Amish, and I was like I'll give it another try. And I felt really horrible after I was there and I because my family was so excited to see me and they made all new dresses and bonnets and they were just super excited that I was there. And after 10 days I ended up leaving again and I feel like that was probably harder for them possibly than the first time, because they were excited to have me back and then I just like ripped all their hope out again.
Speaker 1:Well, the book does a fantastic job of getting us emotionally into you returning. I didn't feel bad for you. Uh, when you left, I felt bad for your mother.
Speaker 2:I felt bad for your siblings.
Speaker 1:You know I felt I was angry at you for going back. I really was. I was angry at you for going back because all you wanted to do was be English Didn't work out. And you're like, oh, I'll just go back, knowing full well that you were going to leave again.
Speaker 2:You knew you were going to leave again.
Speaker 2:It was like in my heart, like I know it was horrible and that's I'm mad at myself for doing that. Like I still like I don't know that I've ever fully forgiven myself for that, because that was very wrong for me to do that to them and hurt them. Like I can't imagine if my daughter like left and then she came back and she's like oh, I love you, I'm here to stay, and then she just like takes off and like does this to me again, like that, just I don't know it's, it's I wish I didn't do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I wish you didn't do that, naomi.
Speaker 2:I know Right Seriously.
Speaker 1:But here's the beautiful thing about this, Okay Is that you ripped the hearts out of your family not once, but twice.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:But they accepted you back that time and they still accept you back to this day and they have just the same amount of love for you that they did when you were still with them. How does that make you feel?
Speaker 2:It's. It makes me feel like it's unbelievable because I feel guilty for doing that to them, but it just makes me realize how awesome and exceptional that my family is, Because even through all of this, they still accept me and love me and accept me just the same as they always did. And that makes me feel bad because of what I did to them. Like it's, it's really unfortunate.
Speaker 1:But it's a true testament to their level of forgiveness. Yes, and how they actually they actually live what their religious teachings preach. Right, you know a lot of a lot, a lot of English, a lot of Christians. You know we'll say oh yeah, sure I can forgive, but bullshit, a lot of Christians you know, will say oh yeah, sure I can forgive but, bullshit.
Speaker 2:I know, right, yeah, right. That's the one thing about the Amish they're the most forgiving people and not just my family, like it's the Amish in general. Some people have this bad outlook on the Amish and I'm like they're actually the most forgiving and really awesome people. Like I'm really grateful for them, super grateful that they allow me and they love when I bring my daughter there.
Speaker 1:Like it's unbelievable how awesome they are. Well, I don't understand how somebody could be anti-Amish. You guys don't do anything to us. You know you're a very peaceful community. As far as I know, you're a very peaceful community and I mean, I'm going to be flat out honest with you. When we see Amish people in the store, you're like zoo animals to us. You're like, oh my God, there they are.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. You know, the biggest thing that I get from my social media, that people get mad when I post nothing about animals. But they're always like oh, you guys run puppy mills, you abuse your animals like you're the most horrible people and I'm like, okay, first of all I don't argue with them, but first of all, our animals are our livelihood. If we don't take care of our horses and our cows, how are we going to survive? Like that's how we live with a, like we take they take good care of their animals and sure, the dogs have puppies and but we don't like at least in my community I can't speak for all of them, at least in my community I never heard of puppy mills ever, not even once. And people in my community did not abuse their horses and cows Like they were very well taken care of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't imagine how you could could, because you are so dependent upon them.
Speaker 2:Exactly. So, that I feel like is a huge like misunderstanding and like again I can only I don't know about all of them, but just because there's a few bad apples, don't make all of them bad. If you will.
Speaker 1:Your relationship with your father growing up it was. It's pretty strained even when you're in the house, because he was he's a very stoic individual.
Speaker 2:Right, and he was. Yes, and he was. I don't know, he was a man of few words, if you will kind of, but he was a businessman, a very awesome businessman, if you will Like. He always had a lot of things going on, but I always felt like there wasn't time for us, and I can understand if you have 12 kids.
Speaker 1:I was going to say.
Speaker 2:How can you, you know, pay attention to all of them and run a farm and a sawmill and make money to support all of them? But he, I think my father is an amazing man and now we have this unspoken agreement between the two of us. Like, I accept him and I don't expect him to. We have boundaries. We accept each other's boundaries, if that's, if you will. Like he doesn't talk to me much, but he's nice to me and he plays with my daughter when she comes. He just loves her. It's so cute, it's amazing.
Speaker 1:Well, one of the tenderest moments of the book you share with the readers is that on Sundays, when your dad would shave.
Speaker 2:On Saturdays.
Speaker 1:On Saturdays, when your dad would shave, he would do what.
Speaker 2:He would come oh, I could barely reach his desk it's one of my first memories and he would put a dab of shaving cream on my nose and, like it would make me giggle and he would tickle me sometimes and I don't know it was. Those were very special memories and moments that I would have that I had with my father.
Speaker 1:Well, they're very special moments in the book. You know, like I said, it's a very tender moment and you would not expect that based on the description and the personality that you portray him to have, which is quite understandable. But how was love expressed in the Amish community?
Speaker 2:So through actions like that, like they don't ever tell us that they love us, but like, for example, they would take us I don't know, it wasn't that often, but like the shaving cream and stuff like that, or they would choke with us and stuff like that Like during mealtime or after mealtime we would talk and laugh and it was more things like that Like we as a family we knew we were loved and that we all had our place in the family. And I guess, other than that I don't really know how to express it, but I just always knew that they loved me, even though they didn't say it or do stuff like that. How is discipline?
Speaker 1:meted out.
Speaker 2:Discipline. They would spank us and sometimes, if we were really bad, they would get the.
Speaker 2:We had this black belt oh but they wouldn't like beat us, they wouldn't like leave marks on us or anything, they would just give us a couple whacks on our butt with the black belt. But oh, when the belt was coming out I was like, oh no I. They disciplined us by spanking and I don't do that to my daughter, but that's I always say. They did the best that they could with what they had and how they were taught. What would necessitate that level of discipline, like lying or being really bad, like if we got in a big fight with our brothers, sisters sometimes, stuff like that how do you not with 12 siblings under one roof, exactly.
Speaker 2:No, it's going to be fights, yes, or I don't know. Maybe it's something I blocked out. I'm like I didn't get spanked very often. It was great. And if we got in trouble at school, if we did like got in trouble at school, if we got spanked or had to stand in the corner at school we had to we would get spanked at home.
Speaker 1:What do they teach you in Amish school?
Speaker 2:that you only go to eighth grade. It's reading, writing, math and spelling and like in second grade we have to learn how to speak English and write in English and also it's like phonics and stuff like that. And then in fifth grade they teach us to read, write and spell in German. But I already knew how to do that. I didn't know how to spell that much a little bit. I knew a lot of it already because all of our prayer books and Bibles are in German. So on Sundays when we didn't have church, my mom would teach us how to read from the Bible or the prayer books. And I knew I don't know, I was pretty young when I could start reading in German but no history, no science or anything like that.
Speaker 1:So I mean as far as like being able to do math and read, I mean you're equipped to go out into the world.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1:But worldly knowledge not quite there. No, not quite there exactly, so how foreign was it to you when you left the Amish community at 17 oh it was.
Speaker 2:I thought, well, I was 17 and rebellious and I knew everything. But after I left I was like, oh, I really don't know anything, hardly about the outside world. And even though I had imagined it was like this, full of bliss and everything was just super awesome, there was a very challenging for me at times to get used to it because I didn't know really anything about the outside world. Like even going to a drive-thru the first time, I was like what is this like? Why are we talking to this thing on the side of the car? It was really scary for me and a very big culture shock.
Speaker 2:Or going to Walmart the first time, like I just froze because I'd never been in a big store, I never had to go shopping for clothes. I still don't like to go shopping for clothes because it's overwhelming. I never had to do that when I was Amish. But it's just, there were a lot of culture shocks and it was a lot more challenging than I had imagined when I left Amish. But it just, there were a lot of culture shocks and it was a lot more challenging than I had imagined when I left, and sometimes I was like I just want to go back, but I was like, no, that's all I wanted was to leave. So I'm going to hang in there and make the most of it and learn and do what I have to do to survive out here.
Speaker 1:So cause you've been English longer than you were Amish, right?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like you were 17 years old when you left Amish and you're well over 20 years now in the English community.
Speaker 2:Right, I'm going to be 44 next month, so I've been out for almost 27 years, yeah, and you look like you still need to be carded, kid. Thank you. It's awesome Not sure how all the things that I did in my life.
Speaker 1:And that's what we're going to get at right now. How do you maintain your youthful appearance, how do you maintain a full set of teeth when you were so addicted to drugs?
Speaker 2:I don't know. Sometimes I think it's because of how I grew up eating like healthy food and all, like we grew our vegetables and everything, like we didn't eat processed food. So I feel like that contributed to it. And even though we only brushed our teeth on Saturday nights I know it freaks people out when I tell them that when I left I did have 14 cavities and I got them taken care of.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I guess I just, over the the years I brush my teeth twice a day and I'm a very big flosser and then, as far as keeping my youthful look, I'm super into eating healthy and not a lot of junk food or processed food, and I take like amino acids and like spirulina and things that are good for me, that nourish my body, because food can be medicine and food can also make you very sick. So I over the years, even when I was a crackhead and I didn't eat for three days sometimes I don't know how my teeth didn't fall out. Honestly, I'm not sure how they fall out, but they didn't and I just that was two and a half years of my life that I did not take care of my body and I don't know. I'm lucky. I'm grateful if you will.
Speaker 1:How lucky do you think you are to be alive?
Speaker 2:Extremely lucky because and I'm sure we'll get into that but I had because of the drugs number one. I'm very, extremely lucky to be here because I almost overdosed one time and I have a near-death experience and I write about that in the book, and then, when I was in Vegas, my ex-boyfriend tried to kill me as well. So I'm extremely grateful to be here today and speaking with you.
Speaker 1:Oh, and at one point you did contemplate killing yourself.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely. There were a couple times actually that I was like I just want to end it.
Speaker 1:So was that a factor of depression, or was that a factor of the amount of drugs you were using and didn't see a way out?
Speaker 2:Both.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:It was. I was very depressed and I just felt like I was just in this hole and it just kept getting bigger and bigger and I just couldn't crawl out of it. And it was just there was. I felt like there was no light. I couldn't just. It was just so much darkness and I just was like, if I could just end it all, like it would, all the pain would go away. And what stopped you?
Speaker 1:What stopped you?
Speaker 2:My family actually, I would think about my family and deep down I knew that somewhere I had the strength. I just had to keep digging and I was determined not to give up because, even though I wanted to so badly, there was some like this little voice on my shoulder like you can this, like you are better than that, you can get away from this and be strong and live a happy life again.
Speaker 1:Well, in the book you definitely feel that you wanted to get out of the situation that you were in, constantly using drugs, going from guy to guy. A part of me wants to know drugs going from guy to guy?
Speaker 2:A part of me wants to know do you? Think you were ADHD, it's a very big possibility. It's a possibility. I've had people tell me that before.
Speaker 1:I've never been tested, but it's a possibility, absolutely yeah. I mean, I got that impression in reading the book and the. You know, your attention span for a guy was maybe a couple of weeks, maybe a month or two, and then boom onto the next, and then boom onto the next. It was almost like Kleenex.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I don't blame you and I don't fault you for that, because you didn't have a a working knowledge of relationships coming out of the Amish community and you didn't know what love actually should feel like or should be.
Speaker 2:Right, and I feel like I was. I felt so lonely and lost that I was reaching out and searching for love or someone just maybe even just not to save me or to be there for me. And I was searching and it just I don't know. I guess I just clung on to people and then it didn't work out and then I was just on this cycle well it it's.
Speaker 1:You go from. You go from seedy guy to an even seedier guy, to an even seedier guy, and at one point I'm just like would you just stop going and looking for guys, because everyone seems to be worse than the previous.
Speaker 2:Right, and I realize now that I was looking and searching for love outside of myself when I should have been looking inside and loving myself, because if I didn't, if I don't love myself, no one's going to love be able to love me. I'm not, you know, and I didn't realize that then and I was searching for it out there when I should have been in here, looking for it in here.
Speaker 1:The uh the guest that. I just had on last week Naomi she was a former playboy play and that's what she. You just said exactly what her message is you have to love yourself before anybody can love you.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's, and I realize that now and back then I just I don't know. I didn't know because growing up Amish like I wasn't really taught about love and then being exploited right when I left, I feel like it just was like this big thing that I don't know kind of boiled over and it just I didn't know how to bring it back and love myself yeah and I was just searching for it out there I mean that in talking to you and I knew because I watch a lot of your ts and and you know I did a lot of research on you.
Speaker 1:I read the entire book, okay.
Speaker 2:I did.
Speaker 1:I read the entire book and and I, I I want people to protect you. I know that you're harder than hard because of you know, stripper, prostitute, drug addict, crackhead. I know you've been through hell, but I just want someone to protect you.
Speaker 2:I feel like I kind of have that person in my life now my partner.
Speaker 2:He is unbelievably magic. He really is and he's the first person really in my life besides one of my girlfriends that well, I actually have a couple of couple girlfriends but the first guy that saw me for who I was. I didn't have to lie to him and I was very open about my past and he didn't judge me. He didn't look at me any different because I told him and we were just friends at first and then I didn't even realize that I was attracted to him or I wasn't looking for a relationship like that. But man he is, he's really amazing and he's really helpful in protecting me, if you will, at points where I need and guiding me sometimes and be just being there. Even if it's a listening ear, he's there and bouncing off. I have like a. It's a listening ear, he's there and bouncing off. I have like someone I can bounce ideas off or he's amazing, I'm so grateful for him.
Speaker 1:Your relationship with him reminds me of my relationship with my wife. Okay, it was born of friendship. Okay, and the number one, the number one attribute that he must have from you is trust and honesty trust and honesty.
Speaker 2:If you don't have that, then it's not going to last and it's not going to go anywhere, and I have both of those with him and I'm really grateful.
Speaker 1:Did it take you a long time to realize that you deserve that?
Speaker 2:A long, long time and I always, I always did things to compromise my relationships.
Speaker 1:Oh, did you really? I read the book.
Speaker 2:Terrible. I don't mean to laugh, but yes, I know.
Speaker 1:No, I think it's great that you can laugh.
Speaker 2:I wasn't doing it consciously. I don't think or like I wasn't trying to, but it's just something that I don't know. I don't know why I did those, why I would compromise them. Because it's what you knew Right, it's what you knew.
Speaker 1:It's what you were taught. It's what you were taught by Kevin, who picked you up when you ran away the first time.
Speaker 2:Right To be dishonest.
Speaker 1:I mean you're old enough to make. I blame him for a lot, Okay, and I hate that you named him Kevin, by the way.
Speaker 2:Oh, I didn't think about that at all. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry, Kevin.
Speaker 1:That's okay. That's okay. Now you know that at least one nice Kevin exists, okay.
Speaker 2:Exactly. He's definitely not all to blame because I was old enough to make decisions.
Speaker 1:That's what I was going to say.
Speaker 2:I take responsibility for my part. Like I was in the wrong. I know that, and I just want to say that I've had to forgive myself because it was not just his fault. Sure, I wasn't quite an adult adult, but I was considered to be a young adult.
Speaker 1:Sure, I wasn't quite an adult adult but I was considered to be a young adult. Age-wise, yes, but you were not equipped for those decisions. You were not equipped for those decisions.
Speaker 2:I really wasn't.
Speaker 1:No, I know, and it's amazing where you are now, from where you first started, when you were 17 years old and you left what you call Amishville to become English. There's some names in the book that I want to talk about, and the first one is Dan.
Speaker 2:Oh, let's rest his soul in peace. He is Wow I. He was amazing. He just wanted to help me. He was honestly like I always. I still feel bad for Dan because all he ever wanted to do was to guide me and love me and support me and not let people hurt me. That's all he wanted, and I would kind of just push him away.
Speaker 1:Kind of.
Speaker 2:It makes me sad to think about that. How much I pushed him away. So, I didn't accept him.
Speaker 1:No, you didn't. You accepted all of his gifts and you accepted his money. Uh, he met you while you were stripping. Um, why didn't you? I mean he, he, I wanted you so bad to be with him.
Speaker 2:He was. He was in his fifties and I was young, so I looked at him more like a dad figure and I felt like if I was with him I wouldn't be able to live my life and he would control me. I don't know that he really would have. He never tried to have sex with me and Rowan in the book. He often tried to make us have sex, but Daniel's like no, I don't want to, I don't want to, she doesn't want to, but I just. I don't know. It was really hard and I was. I wasn't ready at the time to get away from the drugs and it was very selfish of me what I did to Dan.
Speaker 1:Well, you weren't alone. Rowan had a lot to do with that as well. Absolutely Well, you weren't alone.
Speaker 2:Rowan had a lot to do with that as well, absolutely so.
Speaker 1:Dan retires from work, and how long did it take you to blow through $250,000 of his money?
Speaker 2:Like six months Jesus to me to think about, like it's unbelievably horrible, and all he wanted to do was to save me. But he felt like he had to smoke crack with us, to be with me, because he didn't want to lose sight of me again, because he didn't know where I was for quite some time. And he once told me he went driving up and down the streets in Grand Rapids and Muskegon where prostitutes were known to walk, because he just wanted to find me, to save me. Even though I never told him at that time that I was selling myself or smoking crack, he knew what I was doing. He was a very smart man, he was an engineer and just. He was very smart and in in tune with me more than I wanted him to be at the time. And, gosh, he tried so hard.
Speaker 2:It breaks my heart that the way I treated him yeah, he's since passed on yeah, he passed on yeah, he had a very weak heart and I always worried that he was gonna have a heart attack when he would smoke crack because he had a pacemaker and only a little bit of his heart actual heart was working at the time.
Speaker 1:But you know, at least we got to hang out, I guess yeah, yeah, better to have loved and lost than never loved at all. Right exactly yes and he just was such a good soul yeah, you could just tell, you could tell in the book. You do a great job of capturing his essence in the book. Um, yeah, that that he. He was just there to look out for you.
Speaker 2:He really was. He wanted me to come home with him and live. He's like, you can just stay here, I won't bother you pretty much, you can just be here and get well. That's all he wanted to do was for me to get well.
Speaker 1:And instead of you getting well, you made him bad.
Speaker 2:Yes, horrible. I don't mean to laugh. It's terrible, it's awful.
Speaker 1:Yes, horrible I don't mean to laugh. It's terrible, it's awful. That's the fact, though.
Speaker 2:But it is the fact. It's really what happened. I did and it wasn't.
Speaker 1:I don't. I mean, yeah, you made the decision to be a drug addict, but it was the drugs that were working on him. It wasn't you, it was the drugs that were in you that were working on him, Right? The other person I want to ask you about and I think Randy is his name in the book- oh gosh, which one's Randy. That he would take you to Vegas.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, Randy.
Speaker 1:On the airplane.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, did you ever feel I don't know sheepish? Did you ever feel I mean sheepish is the best word calling him and saying I just blew through all that money again? Can I get more money and will you take me back out to Vegas?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I, yes, I would do that, and he was also such a nice older gentleman, I mean sure, like he would give me oral sex, but he never wanted anything from me other than that. He also wanted me to get my life together and I felt horrible when the money would run out because I promised him that I wasn't going to go smoke crack with those boys. He called them those boys. He's like you better not go blow this money with those boys and smoke crack. And I was like, oh, I won't.
Speaker 2:And when I made that promise and I would tell him that, I really in my heart felt like I wouldn't, because when I was in Vegas I didn't think about smoking crack. I felt like a human again. But that's when I realized I had to get away from them if I ever wanted to be clean, because as soon as we were going back to the airport I thought about them. And boom, that feeling came down back in my stomach where I would get that craving I call it that horrible craving that would make me nauseous and sometimes I would throw up like it was awful. But yeah, he was also a nice, nice older gentleman that was trying to help me.
Speaker 1:And you got all this money in Vegas by winning and gambling.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I would take it back and even sometimes before we would go anywhere else, we would go to that's like a crack house or my friends that were smoking as well, and then we would end up calling the dealer. Sometimes we would even go to the dealer before we would go there. After I came back from Vegas with all this money and I don't know it was, it was a horrible cycle I was stuck in.
Speaker 1:A horrible cycle you were stuck in that only kept getting deeper and deeper and deeper. What was the bottom point?
Speaker 2:The bottom point was when I was up for five days and I hardly ate and I didn't. I didn't sleep for five days and I talk about this in my book, how I went to the bathroom and like my period came and like my whole life flashed before my eyes and I was dying. I felt literally I was like slipping away. My soul was like trying to get out of my body and I think I had an outer body experience because like I felt like I was dragging myself down the hallway to go talk to Rowan and Dan and I was yelling their names but they wouldn't look at me or come help me and finally I just went back to the bathroom and I don't know it was. It was really horrible.
Speaker 1:You were hallucinating.
Speaker 2:I was hallucinating Right Obviously hallucinating and finally Dan came running and he just started crying when he saw me because there was blood all over the bathroom. It was bad, it was a very bad situation, but that was like when I hit rock bottom. I feel like.
Speaker 1:And that was when you decided to move permanently to Las Vegas to move into an apartment.
Speaker 2:I was like we need to get out of a hotel. We were staying at hotels at this time. So we got an apartment and we all like did a pinky swear we're never going to smoke crack again. Like the apartment was off limits and then Dan went away and Rowan and I couldn't help ourselves. We're like just this one time. And then we would smoke crack in the apartment and I would run out of money. That's when I was going to Vegas and eventually I met this guy, lance, in the book, and after that I decided to move to Las Vegas to get away.
Speaker 1:And when you moved to Vegas, how soon was it before you started to go to the strip clubs and work?
Speaker 2:It was like 10 days. I started working at Spearmint Rhino. I worked there for a couple months but I just felt like I didn't really belong there. It was too much, too overwhelming, because it was such a huge place and there were so many girls that worked at any given time. I was more like the girl next door. I wasn't the pushy stripper, I was the bubbly fun outgoing stripper and and then I started working at Cheetah's and there I loved it Like I did really well. When I started working at Cheetah's, the house, mom was really nice, the girls were really nice and I felt like I had like this little Vegas family. It was amazing.
Speaker 1:As an Amish girl. How were you able to take your clothes off in front of people the first time?
Speaker 2:Gosh, it was unbelievably scary and crazy. I I couldn't believe that. I did it. Like when they pushed me through that door on the stage and they had told me the first song I have to take my top off and the second song I have to be completely naked, because it was a nude strip club, I was like, oh my gosh, there's no way I can't do this, I can't do it. And they're like, sure you can. And my girlfriend's like, yes, you can, you got this. And I was like trying not to cry, but it was overwhelming my hair actually, I let my hair fall in front of my face and I was like, oh, that is my shield. They can't see me. I know they could, but in my head they couldn't.
Speaker 1:So that's how, even if I went, to go dance right now, I would let my hair fall and be my shield. So did you ever get comfortable? Yeah, I mean it's. It reads like you got comfortable in a very quick time.
Speaker 2:I did it. It was like about four when I was in Minnesota dancing at the first place. That was around four months. I never really got comfortable, like not 100%, like I would always get super nervous and like tense. But once I would go on stage the fear and the anxiety would just kind of go away because something would come alive inside me and I would get super excited and happy and it was fun. But the thought of going on stage was always really scary to me and overwhelming those first that first while, and then in Michigan it took me a couple more months and then the girls started teaching me pull tricks and I don't know. Then it was like amazing to go on stage. I looked forward to it. I would actually ask to go up, even if it wasn't my turn, if I wasn't busy, because I was so excited to go on stage and learn new pull tricks and just exercise. It was super fun. And to own my own sexuality for the first time in my life. It was very empowering.
Speaker 1:There's a picture in the book that uh of you on the pole, and I can't remember where it was, but the story where you just went to a strip club and they had a pole and you asked if you could go up there and everybody was like oh my God, Wow, Look at her go.
Speaker 2:It was in Cancun. That was actually in Cancun at a nightclub.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I love tall poles because there was a couple of like cheetahs didn't have tall poles but Spoonman Rhino had a really tall pole, so I did like that when I worked there. They had a really tall pole. So I did like that when I worked there. They had a super tall pole. But in Cancun that pole is the tallest pole I ever danced on.
Speaker 1:That was really awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I miss pole dancing. Honestly. I just went to Country Thunder last week, a week ago, and some of the camps they have stripper poles on platforms and I was like oh my gosh, I haven't done this in like four years. I didn't go upside down, but I was like I gotta, just gotta go up there and I did.
Speaker 1:I spun around and like three different spins and I was like this is really fun no, you could put one in here rush you could put one in the front room, naomi I have one actually outside.
Speaker 2:It's outside on a platform, but I haven't pulled it out since I became a mom.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But I used to have it in my other place before we bought this place.
Speaker 1:It's a workout.
Speaker 2:It's a huge workout. I know I was like I got super tired because I'm not used to like doing that kind of stuff anymore when I was at Country Thunder, but it's it's a it's very good exercise and super fun and just to let you know, if you haven't already deduced, that I did read the entire book.
Speaker 1:Uh, risa was not a favorite name of yours no, not.
Speaker 2:At first I hated it. I was like this is the most horrible name. But the girls like at least it's yours, like no one else has it. And guys always thought I said lisa. And it kind of became really awesome because when they would say, oh, nice to meet you, lisa, I would say no, it's like lisa, but with an r risa. And then it was like a conversation starter and they're like wow, I've never met anyone with that name. And I had that stage name the longest, from 2004 until 2020.
Speaker 1:And how did? Because it has it's. It's a foreign name that has a meaning, right.
Speaker 2:Yes, it means laughter in Spanish.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:That's, that's.
Speaker 1:yeah, that's kind of flattering that another dancer gave that to you then Well, she worked at Spearmint Rhino.
Speaker 2:It was like a week and I didn't have my own name and like the girls were talking about and some of the regulars are like oh, you don't have your name, like you're changing your name every day and throughout your shifts, and I was like there's so many girls like all the names seem to be taken. So she was like and I never really talked to her until then she's like you need your own name. And I was like yes, she's like come on, let me help you. And she takes me to the dressing room and she's shouting out names and I'm like no, no, no, these are not, don't. They don't fit me.
Speaker 2:And when she got Teresa's, she's like oh my gosh, it's perfect. It means laughter, it's you're bubbly, it's perfect for you. And I was like I don't like it. She's like that's why you don't have a name. You're too picky. This is going to be your name. I was like fine, I was not happy, but in the end I'm grateful for her and I did end up liking it, but it took me a long time to get used to it wasn't sugar?
Speaker 1:one of yours as well?
Speaker 2:yes, that was in Michigan at sensations. For four years I was sugar. I was also a girl. She's like, oh my gosh, you're so sweet. Sugar, sugar, sugar, sugar should be your name. And she's like I was like they won. Sugar should be your name. And she's like I was like they won't believe me. My name is sugar. And she's like they don't give you enough money to know your real name.
Speaker 2:I was like okay, I thought that was funny. She was one of the girls that taught me a lot of poultry. She was really good on the poultry. She actually teaches poultry classes now.
Speaker 1:What is the typical clientele that you dealt with when you were stripping?
Speaker 2:now, what is the typical clientele that you dealt with when you were stripping? I preferred the older gentlemen. Actually, I don't know, for some reason the younger guys would make me nervous or I felt like they were just there looking for a date, and not that the older guys weren't. Sometimes, because they were and I'm probably judgmental I always felt like the older guys probably had more money and I was there to make money. I wasn't there looking for dates, I was there to work. But I feel like the majority of my clientele was like middle-aged men, maybe like 35 to older, or sometimes even maybe younger than 35. But I didn't often go up to guys. When I thought they were in their 20s, I don't know, I was actually intimidated and uncomfortable to walk up to guys that when I thought they were like in their twenties, I don't know, I was actually intimidated and uncomfortable to walk up to them.
Speaker 1:Well, was there a maybe a psychological, uh, component to you gravitating towards the older gentlemen because of that kind of distant relationship you had with your own father?
Speaker 2:That's what I feel like Absolutely. I feel like that always made me more gravitate towards the older men because of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, has your family read the book. Do they know about the book? Do they know about your life?
Speaker 2:I just found out. Last week someone reached out to me on Instagram. He's like I'm a really good friend of your family and a lot of the Amish where you grew up and I was driving around to your brother and I started asking him about the strict rules and he started telling this man. My brother told this man about the relationship I have with my parents and then he tells the man about my book and he's like, if you ever get the book, like, please let me read it. And I guess this man went and bought the book and he read it and he's like, don't worry, I will not let him read it, I will not even tell him that I have it, because I don't think that he would understand what you went through.
Speaker 2:Now I have talked to not my parents but some of my siblings, a lot of my siblings. I've talked to them about some of the drug abuse, because during my years of addiction I was more absent. I didn't go see them very often and a couple of times I did, I was not in good shape, like I was just a hot mess and they knew I was up to something but they didn't know what. So I guess to give them closure, like they asked me a little bit about it sometimes when I visited and and I actually not in detail, like I go in the book, but I've told them that I smoked crack and I did coke and stuff like that, but I don't know. So they know I have a book. I don't know if my parents know that I was a stripper, but I feel like it would be naive to think that they don't, because they somehow find out everything, but we've never talked about it. So, oh, sorry, my phone is ringing, that's okay. We've never talked about it and I don't feel comfortable talking to them about it.
Speaker 1:You know, what's interesting is we've talked about how growing up Amish did not prepare you for being English in life outside of Amishville, life outside of Amishville. However, I think that there are parts of growing up Amish that did prepare you for your life as a stripper and a call girl, and that is the amount of secrecy that you had to carry. You know you can't lie in the Amish community, so you pretty much have to keep things bottled up.
Speaker 2:Well.
Speaker 1:I think you pretty much had to keep things bottled up, right? I think you pretty much had to keep things bottled up in the English life and you had to become a very good liar.
Speaker 2:Exactly, absolutely, and also even besides that. Yes, I agree with that 100%. And also I feel like the strong foundation that I had growing up, amish. I feel like that's what gave me the strength to get through all of that and come outside on the other side, Because I often, when I was down in the dumps and didn't know where I was going to go or what I was going to do, I thought about my family and how they would feel or like I don't know. I just want it to be better and do better, because I didn't want my family I don't know, I just thought about my family a lot. I didn't want them to worry or I know they're worried, but I didn't want them to see me as this bad person and I want it to do better and live a better life.
Speaker 1:How did you hit the drug habit?
Speaker 2:Well, getting away from crack. I moved to las vegas and then in las vegas I did a lot of ecstasy in molly and I even smoked meth a couple times with my boyfriend there. But that reminded me of the crack and I quickly was done with that and then I just I did a lot of, even when I moved to cal California. I moved to California for six years and my boyfriend there he didn't like drugs and I would hype that I was doing coke and molly and ecstasy from him, and I guess how I was able to kick it was with my current partner.
Speaker 2:Like he would always tell me, like if I ever want to have kids, like I have to take care of my body. And he's like people that do hard drugs like you have in your past. He's like they often die in their 40s and that really opened my eyes. Like he a lot of like. I don't know about a lot, but a few of his favorite rappers and people like that that were into coke they died in their early 40s. So he always told me about that. He's like if you keep doing this, you're going to die that. And he's like if you keep doing this, you're going to die. And that really opened my eyes. And then I wanted to become a mother and I was like well, if I want to be a mom, I have to get my body healthy, and that's really how I stopped.
Speaker 1:So you did not go to any meetings, or it was just a personal decision and you used your own inner strength to stick to it.
Speaker 2:Yes, willpower and inner strength, and yes.
Speaker 1:And when was the last time you used?
Speaker 2:In 2018 was the last time I used Coke.
Speaker 1:Wow, good for you, buddy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't even drink alcohol. Now, like at Country Thunder I opened up like one of those little Malibu it's kind of like a white claw and I took one sip and I was like, well, it just to me if when I, even when I just take a sip of alcohol now sip, and I was like, well, it just to me if when I, even when I just take a sip of alcohol now it feels like placing in my body.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, most of that reason is because you're not doing it to fulfill a void, because those voids have been filled.
Speaker 2:now Right.
Speaker 1:You know you have love from a partner and you have a baby girl.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I feel like writing, writing my book. I never realized that that wasn't like part of the plan when I started writing the book, but writing the book was super therapeutic and I was able to release a lot of the trauma that I had. And I'm on a healing journey now and I don't need drugs to get me through like I used to or just to function like I felt, like I couldn't function before without drugs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, being on a healing journey, you have to be present. You know healing is because you're present and if you're taking drugs you ain't present.
Speaker 2:Absolutely not. You're just shoving it down and covering it up and just trying to numb the pain. At least that's how I felt, like what I would do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so congratulations to you on making that decision, of being able to stick to it. But I mean, you look great, you look happy.
Speaker 2:You look healthy.
Speaker 1:You don't look like the same person I read about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I definitely. I found the peace and the freedom that I was looking for when I left Amish. It took me 20 years but I'm finally here and I'm grateful for that and I'm grateful for my partner to be so loving and supportive of me and accepting me for who I am and just being by my side, Like I don't have any family out here in Arizona where I am, but he's amazing and I'm really grateful for him and I'm grateful for my strengths and where I am now biggest regret biggest regret?
Speaker 2:there's two. I have two biggest regrets. The one is going back to the Amish for a second and making them believe that I was there to stay, and the second one is hitting that crack pipe for the first time and doing that first line of Coke Like. Those are my biggest regrets, definitely.
Speaker 1:Uh, was the grass greener?
Speaker 2:Yes, I feel like it is now. It wasn't for a long time, but absolutely now. I'm very happy and I live a very peaceful life. I live on four acres and I have chickens, a garden and we have a daughter, and it's just, it's peace. My life is very peaceful.
Speaker 1:I think you're going to be a fantastic mom, and I say that because you have a firsthand knowledge of what oppression and repression can do to somebody you know. And I don't think that means that you're going to be willy nilly with your daughter, but I think it also means that you're going to have a capability that somebody else doesn't have in in child rearing, because you came from such a situation.
Speaker 2:I always tell her everything in moderation, like, like I allow her, for example, soda. She gets a tiny bit once in a blue moon, and that's just an example, like I feel. Or she would just eat chocolate all day if I would let her, or snacks, but I don't. And I tell her in moderation Because I know if I repress her from these things when she gets older she might just go crazy and rebel. Like I didn't just like do all, like drink a whole bunch of soda and eat a whole bunch of chocolate, and I don't want that to happen to her. So I allow her to have like a little bit here and there versus none at all. You know what?
Speaker 1:It does make sense. Yeah, everything in moderation. That that's a great motto and a great philosophy to have in life.
Speaker 2:I don't want to repress her.
Speaker 1:Well, because we've all seen how that turns out Exactly.
Speaker 2:That's not the way to go, definitely not.
Speaker 1:One of the heartwarming things that I love about the book. It's towards the end and it is the relationship that your mother has with your daughter and is the relationship that your mother has with your daughter.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's so heartwarming and it almost makes me cry sometimes when I think about it, because she just loves my daughter, loves my parents and they just love her. Like my mom, like I don't even I've never seen her dance in her life, but my daughter was like 15 months old and singing if you're happy, if you're happy and you know it, clap your hands. And she had my mom dancing. Like I was like what? Like I wished I could record it, but I can't do that there. But these are memories and things that you know. I will tell her when she's a little bit older.
Speaker 1:Well, doesn't grandpa play peekaboo?
Speaker 2:Yes, and grandpa was playing peekaboo and hide and seek and bouncing her on his knee like, oh, it's so heartwarming, like they just adore her. My dad likes he. The last time I was there was a year ago in June. It'll be a year in June and he teased her with she has this bear that she loves. And he'd be like, oh, I'm gonna snuggle the bear and she's like, no, no, dottie, she calls him mommy and Dottie's grandpa and grandpa and she would get so offended when Dottie would try to cuddle the bear. But it was cute. He didn't make her cry or anything, but it was. It was really fun.
Speaker 1:Had you experienced that at her age with your dad, would you have left?
Speaker 2:No, probably not. I mean, I can't say for sure, but most likely not If I would have had, like all that nurturing and loving care and like um interaction maybe that's not the right word, but um, just there, like they were there for me, like that, it might have been different what's your greatest victory?
Speaker 2:my greatest victory is overcoming my drug habits definitely, actually and becoming a mom, because I was told I couldn't be a mom. So that is probably the greatest victory, because at 40, I was told I couldn't have kids and I finally gave up and five months later I was pregnant with our daughter and this is by far the greatest chapter of my life. It's challenging at times but it's the most rewarding and I'm just so grateful that I was able to become a mom and my daughter is just so loving and amazing and so smart and fun. She is such a fun personality and I'm very grateful for her.
Speaker 1:Tough question I got to ask it. What's more demeaning stripping for strangers, having sex with strangers or buying drugs?
Speaker 2:having sex with strangers Probably.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I feel like that's like the biggest taboo among like the other people, that just people in general, like they probably look down on me more for being, you know, having sex with strangers.
Speaker 1:How did you deal with that personally, in your own mind, in your own soul?
Speaker 2:It's like I said, I'm on a healing journey. It was something that I had to forgive myself. It was very I had a lot of guilt for a long time. Very, I had a lot of guilt for a long time. Like I would feel super guilty and in like in my book I talk about how many guys would have. Like sometimes I would have sex seven times with seven guys in one day when I would go to Vegas, just so I could support myself financially. And that was really soul-crushing and I just basically I just had forgive myself and I was doing it so I could support myself financially because I didn't want to depend on anyone else and I had just gone to college and spent $20,000, yet I couldn't support myself on the $11 an hour in LA that I made from my being a phlebotomist, like it was. It was a challenging time, but definitely yeah.
Speaker 1:It's interesting that you say that you know kicking the drug habit, becoming a mom. Nowhere in there did you say that graduating from college and getting a degree was was a major triumph for you.
Speaker 2:You know I always I for some reason I forget about that sometimes because that was a huge deal to me. Actually, I was so proud of myself and I'm still proud of myself, but I don't. I got my phlebotomy x-ray technician and medical assistant license all in one year and I graduated. I was just on top of the world Like it was like the greatest feeling ever and I was like I'm never going to be a stripper or prostitute ever in my life again. Like I was so excited and early on after I got hired and I only made $11 an hour and I had to pay the student loan and my car payment and stuff and I realized that I couldn't live off that living in LA and it kind of really crushed me. But I'm, that was such a huge thing for me to graduate from college. I'm really proud of myself. But I don't do that now, but I still have my licenses.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what do you do now?
Speaker 2:I am a content creator and a stay-at-home mom.
Speaker 1:What do you create? What do you create?
Speaker 2:I do TikTok and Instagram. I'm Amish Inspiration on both of them and I just do stories about things about my life, even growing up Amish, or about my life now.
Speaker 1:And why do you dress in Amish attire, sometimes for your TikTok?
Speaker 2:How do Amish women ride horses? Now, I don't know about all the Amish, but the Swartzentruber Amish, which is the way I grew up. The women were not allowed to ride horses when I was there. I think it helps to get people to understand where I came from, from the Amish. I know some people get mad. They're like why do you dress like this if you're not Amish? And also my daughter, she loves to wear her Amish dress. My mom made her Amish dress and she often says mom, I want to wear my Amish dress. So we wear our Amish dress together and it's just to bring awareness. Like I don't know, I know people get mad sometimes, but it makes me feel happy to wear my Amish dress. Those are my roots.
Speaker 1:And your hope with the book is what.
Speaker 2:I hope to give them hope and inspire them Like I really really hope that my and I. I already know that it does, because I often get messages on TikTok or Instagram and they're like wow, your story is amazing. You're giving me hope. Like I'm still living my story right now, but I too, hope one day I can overcome what I'm going through the way you did. So that makes me feel I don't know. It sometimes brings tears to my eyes because I wish I could go help them. But I know that they have to like be ready to move on and get well. But I just I encourage them to get support and you know people there for them to help them get through it it brings cheer.
Speaker 2:It brings cheers to your eyes, but does it also bring a sense of anger that nobody was there for you when you were going through it sometimes it does, but I always feel like I'm I was responsible for myself to get out of it, because I'm the one that got myself there, Like I knew that I had I. If anyone was going to get me out of there, it was me, because people tried to help me when and I wasn't ready, Like like Dan, for example, like he's like, come here, I will, you can get well, but at that time I just, for some reason, I wasn't ready to change or to be better. I was sick somehow and I just I needed help, but I didn't accept it. So I really hope that my story inspires others and that they too can heal and move forward and have a good life.
Speaker 1:Now, like I said at the beginning, there are parts of the book where I just wanted to shake you by the shoulders and just wake you up, and now I just want to hug you. Kid.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you, You're very welcome.
Speaker 1:I'm very proud to know you, to have met you, and just super, super glad that you're on the path that you're on.
Speaker 2:Thank you yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you are. Yeah, I'm sure you are.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Every day I wake up is a great day and I'm grateful to get another chance at life.
Speaker 1:And congratulate that partner of yours and give Stormy a big hug from us, okay.
Speaker 2:I sure will, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Where can they go to pick up your book?
Speaker 2:Amazon.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I'm allowed to say that, but it's on Amazon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I downloaded it from Amazon on my Kindle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's where. That's where they, and if they go to my website, it just takes them to Amazon. That's where it's available.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's a quick read. It is. It is a very quick read and I would suggest reading it alone.
Speaker 2:I know right, I know right, I, I know right, I know right, I know for some people it's overwhelming or overbearing, it's too much for some people. Like it's porn, like I got a couple of reviews. They're like it's too pornographic. I'm like it says erotic memoir, like what were you expecting?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it'll make you blush. It'll make you blush Exactly, but it's a true, triumphant story of what you went through, what you overcame.
Speaker 2:You'll be angry at times, you'll be frustrated at times and then you'll celebrate at times, and I think that's a well-rounded book. Thank you, I I, I think so and I hope that, like I said, I hope it inspires people and gives them hope.
Speaker 1:So, and I think it will do just that. The Amazing Adventures of an Amish Stripper, an erotic memoir, serves as a cautionary tale on the ramifications of oppression, the financial and physical cost of drug addiction and the mental toll the search for belonging can bring. In the end, though, Naomi's story is a triumph, proving that with determination, perseverance and love we can overcome anything. My thanks to Naomi Swartz and Truber for joining me Again. You can get Naomi's book, the Amazing Adventures of an Amish Stripper an erotic memoir, at Amazon, and you can follow her on Instagram at Amish Inspiration. If you'd be kind enough to give the Fuzzy Mike a rating, I would be grateful, and please subscribe to the Fuzzy Mike YouTube channel and share the Fuzzy Mike with all of your contacts. Thank you, I appreciate you for doing that.
Speaker 1:The Fuzzy Mike is hosted and produced by Kevin Kline. Production elements by Zach Sheish. At the Radio Farm Social media director is Trish Kline. For a weekly dose of pickup-inducing laughter, check out the Tuttle Klein podcast. It's the podcast I co-host with my longtime radio partner of 25 years, Tim Tuttle. We give you new episodes every Wednesday. I'll be back next week with a new episode of the Fuzzy Mike. I hope you'll join me then, and thank you for listening, that's it for the Fuzzy Mike. Thank you, the Fuzzy Mike with Kevin Klein.