The Fuzzy Mic
After retiring from a 30-year, major market morning radio career, I'm often asked what I miss the most about the job. I miss 3 C's...camaraderie, creativity but most of all, conversation.
The Fuzzy Mic is built around creativity and conversation to develop camaraderie. The 4 focus areas are: Mental Health, True Crime, Music and Sports.
So, while The Fuzzy Mic allows me to fill some professional voids, it's my sincere hope that maybe you'll find something personally fulfilling in it too.
The Fuzzy Mic
Breaking Barriers: Music and Mental Health Advocacy with Rorschach Test
James Baker's transformation from defrocked minister to behavioral health therapist is nothing short of inspiring. This week, we're sitting down with James, along with guitarist Kolby Peoples and lyricist Christine Baker—also known as the Narcoleptic Goddess. We reminisce about the electrifying 1998 St. Louis concert and get an exclusive first listen to their upcoming 2024 releases, including "Fallen" and "Belated." Plus, get ready for their Halloween CD release and marvel at Kolby's guitar wizardry.
The episode takes a deep dive into the critical importance of mental health awareness. We explore the courage it takes to share personal stories and how societal norms often hinder open discussions about mental struggles. Our conversation touches on the pandemic's exacerbation of mental health issues and the alarming rise of substance use, particularly fentanyl. Through heartfelt anecdotes, we stress the necessity of open dialogue and community support, highlighting the life-changing impact such conversations can have.
Peer support is a lifeline in the journey to recovery from mental health struggles and addiction. We delve into the transformative power of sharing personal battles and the invaluable role of community. Discover practical advice for starting conversations about mental health and learn about the cathartic process behind Rorschach Test's music. From the emotional resonance of their album "Unclean" to the inspirations behind their profound lyrics, this episode promises a compelling exploration of music, recovery, and the human spirit.
It is another episode of the Fuzzy.
Speaker 1:Mike this is the Fuzzy Mike. The interview series without format, without boundaries, without focus. This is the Fuzzy Mike. Hello, and thank you for joining me on this episode of the Fuzzy Mike. The feedback on the past two episodes with Ricky Sluder simply amazing, so overwhelmingly positive. Not only do I appreciate you listening and watching the episodes, but that you were compelled enough to send me messages. Well, I seriously I don't have the words to express my gratitude. I don't have the words to express my gratitude. So this week, well, I've been obsessing about this conversation for roughly three weeks now, and some of the obsessing has been healthy, like getting to listen to some of my favorite music incessantly. But the other obsessing, well, it's been stressful because I just wanted this conversation to go perfectly, as I do with all of my guests, but this one particularly because, well, I've been a fan for over a quarter of a century, 26 years to be exact.
Speaker 1:I first saw James Baker and Rorschach test at a St Louis concert in 1998. They opened for an S&M metal act called the Jenna Torturers. Go look them up. Not safe for work though. They have a PG-rated show. They have an R-rated show and an X-rated show. I've been to the R and the X before the X-rated show is pretty much whatever you would think goes on at a bondage show, with piercings on stage, of private parts, all that kind of stuff. It's really family entertainment. Anyway, james and Rorschach Test when they opened in St Louis, it blew me away. I left the venue that night, a huge fan of Rorschach Test.
Speaker 1:So fast forward to today, 2024,. I was running last month and I was listening to my iPod. Hey, don't judge, you'll get old someday too. Rorschach's song Cripple Touch came on. It got me wondering if they were still around and if so, what were they up to? Well, it turns out James. James was one time a young minister in the church, but he became defrocked in the early 1990s. Anyway, james took a long hiatus from music to work through some personal demons, and that led him to get a degree in behavioral health and become a vocal advocate for mental health awareness and suicide prevention. I also learned that they've already released some new music in 2024, and they have more music coming out later this year and next year. Are you kidding me Talking mental health and music with one of my favorite artists? Surely this couldn't happen, or could it? I took a shot and I emailed Rorschach Test through the Contact Us link on their webpage. Through the Contact Us link on their webpage. Honestly, I didn't expect to get a reply. But not only did I get a reply, it was actually from James himself. So we exchanged emails and text messages. Yeah, james Baker has my phone number.
Speaker 1:Joining us in the episode are Rorschach Test guitarist, the immensely talented Colby Peoples. I can't wait for you to hear what this guy can do with an axe. You're going to hear it in the episode. Are Rorschach Test guitarist, the immensely talented Colby Peoples. I can't wait for you to hear what this guy can do with an axe. You're going to hear it in this episode. And also James's wife. She's now a lyricist for Rorschach Test. She actually wrote the lyrics to the song Fallen and she's got the online. I guess nom de plume as the narcoleptic goddess.
Speaker 3:Here we go, sir, hello.
Speaker 1:What's going on, my brother? How are you?
Speaker 3:How are you doing?
Speaker 1:I'm doing great. Hey, Colby, nice to meet you, man, Nice to meet you too. Hello, goddess.
Speaker 4:Hello, I have a human name too.
Speaker 1:Christine, I didn't know if you wanted to use that or if you just wanted to go with the narcoleptic goddess. I've been planning on calling you goddess the whole time, but we can go with the brand, for sure. Yeah, stick to the brand.
Speaker 4:I'll gladly accept.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you will. I'm sure you will. Hey, thanks for taking time out of your busy schedules to chat with me. I was just talking in the opening about how I stumbled upon Rorschach test in 1998 when you were opening for Jenna torturers in St Louis.
Speaker 3:Did the nurses take care of you? No, they did not, they looked for guys like you. You know, they bring them up on stage and put them on the stretcher and uh, we'll leave it. Uh, we'll leave it there, Of course.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that was an R-rated show. That was not the X-rated that I have been to. So lots to cover with all three of you, including the upcoming Halloween release of the new CD. I can't wait for that. I've already heard and watched the video for Fallen. We're going to talk about that. We're going to talk about Belated, the new song that, uh, I see I've seen on, uh, the goddesses meta page.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's, uh, it's up on our official YouTube channel and it's on our website as well. So, Awesome.
Speaker 1:And then we're going to talk about the old material and we're going to talk about mental health, because I did not know this, james Baker, but when you took a break in 2002, you went and got your behavioral health therapist degree.
Speaker 3:Eventually yeah.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, brother. That is so cool.
Speaker 3:Right, right, yeah, it is, it's very cool. So I, I, uh, uh, you know, some people do it to uh find a profession and uh.
Speaker 1:then there are some of us who, who actually need to do it some of us who who actually need to do it, but you've parlayed that into an interesting uh, I don't know if it's a profession, but you're a hospice chaplain.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I actually. You know when, when you're, uh, going through your resume, um, and looking at your updated skills lists and where you've been to school, and you plug that all into these AI resume machines and they recommend exactly who you should work for. What kept popping up was chaplain, and I was like, well, chaplain, why are they doing that? And it's simply because I have the creds. I went to seminary when I was like well, chaplain, why are they doing that? And it's simply because I have the creds. You know, I went to seminary when I was a very young man and graduated and was ordained at that time, and really, you know, there's most.
Speaker 3:Most people say that ordination kind of lasts for your whole life or whatever, but I had those credentials and I applied for an outfit here in Phoenix and they immediately accepted me, and it's been an incredible experience for me personally. I had no idea what I was in for, what I was in for, but I can tell you that probably the most meaningful moments of someone's life all come to a summary point, and I'm fortunate enough to get to hold the hands of people when they're passing from this existence into whatever's next, and that's a very powerful moment. Isn't that heavy for you, though you know you would think it is, but it's not. It's actually. For me, it's something that is helping me with the whole topic in understanding how the human experience has some very natural points that it goes through. We all like all of us hopefully today took a crap right.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3:So we all do these things that are just natural and not to minimize someone passing away, but literally it's just like taking a crap. It's something that the body does at some point.
Speaker 3:Something that we all do, yeah something that we all do, and you know people say that we are energy in a flesh cage and that when that flesh cage dies, or our tent, or our body, whatever we want to call it when it gives up, finally, the energy is eternal and it keeps going and it just goes someplace else, and it's been really cool for me to see that literally illustrated. When people are passing away, you can almost observe or see this energy force leaving their bodies. It's really amazing.
Speaker 3:So then we do go on for eternity, then you know I'm not going to get into theology here, but I would say that you know everyone has their own opinion on that, and I do know that the body is just a mechanism. Okay, it's not the whole enchilada. Your body is just a mechanism. Something is operating that mechanism, it's making it animated and causing it to do things, and that something is an energy, I believe.
Speaker 1:To the goddess, then, to expound on that. How much energy do you have dealing with narcolepsy?
Speaker 4:I have no energy in this plane of existence, but in the dream world I can do very amazing things and travel to places that probably only people, after they pass this world, get to see and travel actually.
Speaker 1:You and I are very similar. When I reached out to James to inquire about you guys coming on, I looked at your Facebook page and all the memes that you have and the one that you and I are so spiritually connected, because the one that I really looked at was me how I feel when I commit to something five months ago and me how I feel when that day comes that I've made that commitment. It's like, oh my God, what was I thinking? Oh yeah.
Speaker 4:I do it every time, every time.
Speaker 1:And we commit because it's out of love and it's out of compassion to help somebody or be with somebody, and then, all of a sudden, that day comes and you're like, oh my God, where'd the energy go? Yeah, I wish we all had the energy of Colby's fingers. Holy shit bro.
Speaker 2:Oh man, I don't even know where to start.
Speaker 1:I had not known about you until I watched the video to Fallen and brother I got to tell you, man, you are amazing.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3:You haven't even heard anything yet. Wait until the album drops. Wait until the album drops. People are going to be. I mean, I'm already counting on someone stealing him away. Nah, I'm too lazy for that, you know. People ask me all the time well, why are you coming back now? And they're hoping for some kind of legendary answer, like the election season was such that I had to rise up and do something about it.
Speaker 3:But the truth of the matter is, to make music at least for me, it requires several things coming together and all of those things working correctly. And I have not had that for years until this time, this moment in working with the goddess as far as a lyricist, and then understanding, and then Colby, who understands and interprets what I say to him, what I lay down as a guide track. I'll just say here's the idea I had for a song, and then I'll come back in an hour and it'll be a masterpiece. I'll be like what? Yeah, so it's amazing. Rorschach test has always been that the concept has always been an alchemy of all sorts of different elements gothic industrial metal, of all sorts of different elements gothic industrial metal, you know and fusing those together and making it work in music. And that's happening again in a big way. And it's totally because of the personnel that I've surrounded myself with, or I should say that I have been blessed to be surrounded with, as well as being sober and present in the moment for the first time in decades for him.
Speaker 1:So that is awesome, brother. Congratulations.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you. Yeah, sure, Sure, yeah, that's a big part of it. You know, you don't really get a lot done when you're, you said. I almost laughed. You said in 1998, you stumbled across Rorschach. I said, well, you're in good company because, believe me, that was the time.
Speaker 2:Yes, 1998., that's four years old Right.
Speaker 3:Oh, my God, yeah, if you want to know how bad it was for me, I actually got thrown off the genitorchers bus.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 3:I didn't want anything to do with me. They're like man, this guy.
Speaker 1:So then that kind of begs the question then, how close to death were you? Are you amazed that you're still alive?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, most people are. In fact, when I kind of when I kind of reemerged here just recently with Fallen and announcing that we were getting the project back together, I've probably received at least 20 comments from people who've known me in the past who said oh, thank God, I thought you were dead.
Speaker 4:Well, there also at one point like six years ago on Wikipedia, there was a Wikipedia that said he had drowned or died in a river and we had to contact Wikipedia to have him take it down. But it was up for like a year saying that he had passed away.
Speaker 1:There's a song in there. There is a song in that exactly.
Speaker 4:Was it a river that they said you died in? Yeah, in.
Speaker 3:Idaho. I died in a river in Idaho somewhere.
Speaker 1:Have you ever swam in Idaho?
Speaker 3:No, I haven't. Totally inconceivable, then yeah, wikipedia, anybody can edit that.
Speaker 4:They don't Do they, oh, okay, anyways.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, anybody can edit that.
Speaker 4:Oh my gosh. I hope I don't have one, because ChatGPT knows about me.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, Isn't that scary stuff.
Speaker 2:I love ChatGPT. I don't know what you're all talking about.
Speaker 1:Well, you would, because you're you're technically in sound, you know I mean, james has even said it in previous interviews that what you know about the buttons and the knobs far surpasses anything that we know.
Speaker 2:I could go so far as to say that I was probably somewhat raised in this room. I had been hanging out in this room, I mean with the owner, mike Bollenbach, since I was about I don't know 13, 14. I lived in the neighborhood my whole life. He saw me playing guitar and he was like come check out my nerd box. I walked into his nerd box and was like, oh, apparently that's what I'm doing with the rest of my life.
Speaker 1:And here we are, To get as proficient on an instrument, especially guitar, as you are, Colby. After school you just rush home, sit in your room and just start noodling.
Speaker 2:That's all.
Speaker 2:Even in class I didn't pay attention, I just I just finger dance, just spirit fingers, you know, and I think it was a way to cope with certain aspects of my life. And I enjoyed playing guitar and it just became an obsession and I was even thinking today on the way here oh, they're going to ask questions. What are they going to ask? What should I prepare? Prepare myself, to say and I think a great way to put it is like a series of bad decisions remedied by obsession is how this has all evolved, you know, and it's just kind of cool.
Speaker 1:That's another great quote, to go along with the other quotes that james has. I mean, brother, I've been. I think I've watched every interview that you've done in preparation for this.
Speaker 4:I'm probably over prepared for this conversation and I'm still highly nervous about talking with you because I am such a fan oh, I watch your, your podcast I'm your fan, so I've been so nervous, like and like you were so brave and so amazing to to tell your story and I think you help so many people and it just it fills my heart with joy because you are, you are yeah you are inspiring
Speaker 4:others to keep going and continuing on in their lives, knowing that they there's someone else that feels the same way as you do, and I think that's amazing.
Speaker 1:That's the whole point of the fuzzy mic and I know that that is now the majority point in your in your lives, especially with Rorschach test is to let people know that there are other people out there going through the same thing, Even high profile people, for lack of a better term.
Speaker 3:Right? Well, it's, it's. It's really simple. You know, just like all of us have physical health, we all have mental health too, and that mental health can change. Just like our physical health, we can get sick with a cold or flu health. We can get sick with a cold or a flu. Our mental health can also get sick with various things that you know can afflict the human brain. But the point is we all, at one point or another, are not in the best shape mentally, I don't care who you are. So it's time for us, as people, to really just get rid of all of the stigma that surrounds mental health and things like addiction and substance use disorder, and make it so that it's comfortable to have that conversation if you have to. One of the things that kills so many, that puts them in the grave, is simply because they are afraid of what other people are going to think if they come out and say I have a problem.
Speaker 1:Which that, right there, leads me to one of the greatest quotes I've ever heard, and it's from you, james Baker. Living in the prison of someone else's opinion is worse than living on death row. That's exactly what you're talking about right there. We're so afraid of what other people are going to say about us that we don't open up.
Speaker 3:Right, exactly, and you know we're kind of tuned into that frequency from youth. You know, with the way that our social construction works We've learned that if we do certain things we get an attaboy or a pat on the back or approval. And nobody really from youth and hopefully this is changing, but for me nobody from my youth, I should say ever even discussed the concept of being comfortable with yourself.
Speaker 4:It's just now becoming a topic, and I think the biggest problem that set the world over the edge was the pandemic.
Speaker 4:And it highlights the mental health crisis so bad. We are in dire need. Everybody of help. Everybody's suffering mentally from what we've been through. It's a collective traumatic event the lockdowns, all that. The drug use increased majorly. Now we deal with fentanyl Back in my day. I'm a recovering addict. I have 21 clean off heroin since I put a needle in my arm and back then like I knew I might die, you know, but whatever, that's how I felt at the time.
Speaker 4:But nowadays you take the chance of taking anything and you're gone you do you do speed and you think and you're going to die from maybe fentanyl, or there's the other one in it now and it's terrifying.
Speaker 3:They think they're getting a percocet and it's, uh, actually a fentanyl.
Speaker 4:Well, that's it's in everything xanax anything, everything, and it's, it's, it's terrifying, and mental health needs to be talked about more, and I see so much of it on a large scale, having a page with over 600,000 followers, and I wish I could help them all, but I can't. But I can be there in the dirt with them and let them know that I've felt this way as well and I think that helps a lot of people. But I think we're suffering. I think we're all suffering and we all need help, and I think the medical system needs to recognize that and treat it better, because they're not treating it as the whole part. They're just giving a pill when you need to treat the mind, body and soul, or otherwise you're just going to go back to the beginning.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's also time for us to get away from the concept of that the doctor fixes everything, because he doesn't. He probably knows, I mean seriously, doctors for the most part are just as stumped as we are when it comes to this kind of stuff. They're still trying to figure out what causes certain mental health issues and substance abuse, and there's all sorts of different theories and ideas. But the thing is is we need to focus on community issues and you know all of us helping each other out. That's where it's really at. Anyone will tell you who's ever made a successful run at recovery or facing their mental health crisis. It isn't the doctor that saved them, or the pills or the program. It's the peer. It's the peer. It's that person who's standing with them, who knows what they've been through and who says those words that we all want to hear hey, it's OK, you're not alone. I've been through that too, and it's all right.
Speaker 1:And there's so much to unravel there. And I want to start with where we kind of picked up that part of the conversation with other people's opinion. Picked up that part of the conversation with other people's opinion. Goddess, you get attacked so much because of your memes online. Number one it's disgusting what people will say to you. And number two how do you not internalize that and have it affect you?
Speaker 4:It has been the greatest journey of my life, like the ultimate shadow work, to watch people attack me and be mean to me, like so. A year ago I posted, I revealed my face for the first time and there were, like, I think, 222 comments and there were seven not so nice comments. And guess which comments, which comments? I will remember forever those seven and um and it. You know. I did a lot of shadow work about that and was like, well, why do I even care about these opinions and why are they attacking me? It's a reflection, it's really a reflection of them and how they're feeling and people get really jealous that I have so many followers and how dare I.
Speaker 4:And she's not even that pretty. Oh my goodness, she doesn't deserve that. So it's jealousy, it's envy, and there's just mean people on the internet that want to drag you down and destroy you. They enjoy it. I had someone. It crosses over from the internet to real life for me. I've had stalkers. I've had people accuse me of horrible things and try and tell my husband I'm having an affair with someone else and it's just all made up stuff to try and destroy me and cancel me. I've learned a lot of self-care, and loving myself is what I've learned from my page.
Speaker 1:So how do we do that? How do we do that? Because I also in, like you just said, 220 comments. Seven are negative. I dwell on those seven negative. You know I was talking with Ozzy's former bass player, phil Sousan, and he was actually playing on stage one night and some guy yelled out you suck, everybody else is there to have a great time. The lead singer stops the show to confront this one person, neglecting the 5,000 other that are in there. You know why do we dwell on the negative?
Speaker 4:There's a thing in humans, like the train wreck effect, where we will spend more time looking at the train wreck than we will at the beautiful flower It'll just pass by, and it's a natural phenomenon, and we all do it. Flower It'll just pass by, and it's a natural phenomenon and we all do it. So online we see the negative bias, the horrible comments, because we love to look at it. Even though we're not interacting, we're looking at it and the algorithm sees that, so it keeps feeding us more negativity because we keep looking at it. So it's because of us.
Speaker 1:Actually, Well, and that's one of the things that we, one of the themes that you talk about in Belated, where you don't blame religion, you don't blame fake book. I want to go back to something that, james, you were talking about about how we need peers, we need companionship. So how do we break the ice with people to talk about mental health?
Speaker 3:Well, not to sound, you know, cliche, but really 9-8-8 is a great way to start and wherever you're at in the US, if you dial 9-8-8, they're going to connect you with an operator that you can start sharing with the operator what your issues are. And if you're not so much interested in something like residential treatment or seeing a doctor or things like that, you can specifically just say hey, where are good peer connections for me? I suffer with alcoholism and I want to be in a good peer-based group. Where do I find that? And they'll know they have all the resources summarized and ready to go on their desk to share that with you. So 988 from any cell phone, any phone in America, will get you tapped in to that network.
Speaker 3:And if you're outside of the US, wwwfindahelplinecom, no matter where you're at in the world, that's going to give you the resources to get out there and talk to someone. And you know it's just actually going through with the phone call that I'm interested in with the people that listen to Rorschach test. I want them to realize that, even though it seems like really hard to do, it's something that you can do, it's something that a lot of us have done. And once you start talking about where you're at in the struggle, you're going to find that just this huge burden gets lifted from you immediately.
Speaker 1:What is it about? Talking about things that freeze us?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's because when we internalize something and we're just letting it play in the echo chamber of our huge psyche, we get no feedback from anyone. But what's in there, in that oil drum of of of you know vastness there? And it's just when you, when we bounce it off of somebody else and say, hey, Colby, have you ever, you know, have you ever had trouble with, uh, this or that?
Speaker 1:or you know and kobe, says well, yeah, of course I have.
Speaker 3:Lots of people have that problem. My uncle, he had that problem. My, my friend, tony, he had that.
Speaker 4:Whatever you know, the point is like a sigh of relief to hear that someone else has gone through that, because you feel so alone in the moment, so alone, and just to know that someone else has been there can save someone's life. It saved my life before. I used to go to counseling, and it wasn't the counselors that saved me, it was a peer support specialist. Wow, it was a peer support specialist.
Speaker 4:Wow, and I myself went to school and became a substance abuse counselor, but I found that I couldn't help anyone because too many people had mental health problems and I'm not allowed to treat that. So I wanted to go back to school to be a psychologist, whatever. Never got to that, but I wanted to be able to share some of my story with them, and you're not allowed to do that as a counselor, a substance abuse counselor. So I was like, yeah, this isn't.
Speaker 1:Not the role for you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, Me because it's hard. It's a hard job.
Speaker 1:Oh, I can't imagine how hard it is. You know I.
Speaker 4:Most people are court ordered. They don't want to get clean. They're very angry and then angry at me because I had to give them a UA and they might go back to jail. So it got really scary. You know what?
Speaker 1:led you both to getting clean.
Speaker 3:Oh well, you know, for me it was a pretty easy decision, my, you know. And then I got a phone call from somebody that I cared about very much and she said James, I just have one question for you, does anybody really know you? And that just completely echoed all through my being. I was just like you know, I don't think anybody really does, and I don't, I don't, I'm not so sure I, I know who I am myself. And then that also that that person said you know, your family loves you, you, we're going to be for here for you as long as you, um, you know, do something and go to treatment or do something to address this. But because if you don't, then you know, we're kind of going to have to just let you go and uh, so yeah, it's, it's pretty wild. I actually had one of my drug dealers drive me to Sweden.
Speaker 1:That's impressive on his part. It's awesome.
Speaker 4:Biden told me it was his. You know, really good friend.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, yeah, that was a trip. But uh, yeah, so, uh, yeah, that was a trip, um, and I think, you know, I think I, I told, uh, I told this this individual, look, just drop me off here, come back in a week, meet me right here at this spot, because I, you know, I was already looking for a back door to get out of treatment and, uh, uh, fortunately, um, I had just the right counselor in there. And, yeah, if anyone's looking for treatment for substance use disorder, I want to recommend Sundown M Ranch in Yakima, washington, a really magic place, incredible place. So I did the full 28 and got out and I haven't looked back since.
Speaker 3:So, you know, I think, for each of us and anyone will tell you this there's no, you know, I've heard people say, well, johnny has to reach his bottom before he can get help. I mean, that may not be true. Okay, all of us are different when it comes to that kind of stuff. We all react differently, we all use differently, we all. You know, there's no generalization that really works with an addict.
Speaker 4:But we have to be ready and want it for ourselves, Otherwise it's not going to happen.
Speaker 1:James, I heard you say in a previous conversation with somebody that you thought you hit bottom and then all of a sudden the ice cracks open and you fall a little further.
Speaker 3:How do you know what bottom?
Speaker 1:is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, you don't, it's a disease.
Speaker 4:It will always be here. I may have not shot up heroin in 21 years, but maybe next week I might, and that's terrifying because that's just addiction. I'm not going to, I have no plans to, but it could happen and that's terrifying.
Speaker 1:That's what that right there is. What scares me about the opening lines of belated and my life Woke up Sunday morning and without a warning, I made the choice to get right out of here, brother, man, that's me, that you know. I am so impulsive and that's what scares me, man, that song really resonates with me because of that reason.
Speaker 3:Right right.
Speaker 4:It's a really deep song that's written about someone that was very close to me, my son's father. We lost him and never got to say goodbye to him. We got a call from the coroner's office instead, but every year on his birthday my son gets to blow out the cakes on the candle and he'll always, forever. He'll never hit 40 because he never got to make it but, um, that song was inspired by him and he didn't commit suicide.
Speaker 4:It was more of an accidental drug overdose. But someone doesn't just accidentally take six different types of drugs.
Speaker 1:I know that so again, again, you and I have something in common, because my father took his own life. Oh yeah, then I never got to say goodbye. And james, you talk about not knowing yourself. I look at the pictures of my dad and me together and I'm like I don't know that guy. I, I just I don't know that guy. He was very, very. He wasn't. Uh, he he was. I will say he was secretive, but not secretive to the detriment of people. He was just secretive because he didn't know how to open up.
Speaker 3:Right, and plus, all of us get caught in that trap of what we talked about earlier. We're so obsessed with presenting some kind of identity to the world, the outside world, that we are terrified to slip up in that role and be human and let people see that, hey, we're not all together. There are things about us that are not so pleasant, and that's been a real, a learning point for me that I can thank the goddess for. I mean, she turned me on to a lot of things that I hadn't really been exposed to before, things like Eckhart Tolle and, you know, the real teachings of Carl Jung in terms of embracing the shadow self, realizing that you know you are who you are good and bad. There's that bad part of you too, and rather than trying to keep that secret from everybody, man, just let it out. Let it out. Let people know I'm a freak, I'm weird in certain ways.
Speaker 4:Add to that not only embracing the shadow of yourself in that shadow are amazing gifts of gold that we've buried there. It's not just all bad stuff. There's amazing gifts that we have hidden inside of ourselves. So if you take the time to do the work, your life will change in amazing ways.
Speaker 1:It's the same message in all the lyrics in Fallen. You're speaking the song right now. That's probably why you wrote it. Hey Colby, what, how much confidence do you get with the guitar in your hand?
Speaker 2:None, you pick up a guitar and you, honestly, the more you know, the less, the less you know, I guess, in the grand scheme of things, and I'm very humbled when it comes to the instrument, I don't I don't feel very cocky at it at all, but I do pick it up and it feels again like I said earlier, it's just something I used, it's my own version of obsession, it's my own version of healing or coping. And when you put a guitar in my hand here we go, man, like, oh, can I do this? Oh, I guess I can. Okay, so it's a weird question to answer, but I'm just along for the ride when I start playing. You know what I mean. It's not something that I just pick up and oh, I start shredding. Look at me. I mean it's not something that I just pick up and oh, I start shredding, look at me, I feel great. You know, it's not like that at all.
Speaker 1:So how much, how much self-doubt or how much questioning will go into 2025 when you're touring with Rorschach Test?
Speaker 2:Very, very little. I've actually been thrown under the bus for years playing guitar, going and doing shows where the entire band is completely underprepared or, um, I mean, I've had moments in past where there were little shows that are like day of hey man, the set list, um, the set list fell apart. Can you learn five, four or five songs right now? And it's like the confidence goes out the window with that stuff. You're like sure, I guess. And then you know James is actually really punctuated, he's really well prepared and he's like oh, I'm going to book a show. I couldn't tell you how many times this year alone, people are like can you play a show with me? It's in two weeks. You got 12 songs, james is preparing. I mean, we've been talking about this for eight months and I've been at home woodshedding the songs, preparing equipment. I mean we've got, we're planning, we're preparing. So I feel confident about the tour, about the shows to come, the recording, because of the, I guess, the preparedness of the of the staff. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean just even go, even going to the show in 1998. James, I could tell that you were a no bullshit guy back then and but, but but that that persona on stage and knowing you now, it seems like you have kind of mellowed a little bit.
Speaker 3:You know, and but I was, I was mellow off the stage then too. I mean, that's one of the things that freaked out a lot of people back in those days is they were like what happens to you when you get on stage and I don't know what happens?
Speaker 1:it's, it's uh the music goes through you. It's just like what colby's talking about. He picks up the guitar and the instrument.
Speaker 3:The music speaks to him right, right and uh, there's a great uh, uh, right, right, and there's a great sense of relief and therapeutic value to grabbing an SM-70 and screaming your guts out. I mean, you're done. When you're done with that sort of experience, you're like, oh, I feel so purged and cleansed and great, you know. And what's even more edifying is, you know, seeing the fans out there who are definitely connecting and relating and sometimes singing along with you or screaming along with you.
Speaker 1:Well, you talked earlier in a previous conversation about people relating to Rorschach test lyrics and people telling you oh my gosh, now I don't feel alone. Let me also tell you a way that Rorschach tests helps people not take their own life, because we get so wrapped up in the song that we listen to it over and over and over and by the time we've listened to it for the 15th consecutive time, we're like what was I obsessing about? What was I thinking about taking my own life for?
Speaker 3:I'll share a stupid dog trick that somebody taught me when I was early in recovery and I still use it to this day and I probably will for my whole life. But when that urge comes, what we were talking about, the first lines of belated, that overwhelming, just out of the blue, random urge comes and it could be for suicidal ideation, it could be for you know other forms of self-harm. It could be drugs, alcohol, sex, gambling, whatever. When the urge comes on, just take that moment and say you know what? I really, really want to go do a plate of cocaine and I'm going to do it tomorrow. Tomorrow's the day I'm going to really do it up tomorrow and I'm going to get my favorite plate and I'm going to get my whatever. You know you get ready in mentally. You're like tomorrow's going to be that day, man, 8am tomorrow, I start.
Speaker 1:Dude, it's brilliant because we're all masters of procrastination.
Speaker 4:And the slogan is just for today, so tomorrow. Just for today. You're going to stay clean, so there's no code, right, okay?
Speaker 3:absolutely yeah, you just repeat this process the next day, right? But uh, you know, uh, it works with suicidal ideation as well if you're feeling that you're just like you know what. Tomorrow's the's the day, and then, when tomorrow comes, just do the same thing, the same exact thing, and pretty soon you've got some distance behind you and it's no longer the urge that's trying to drive the bus, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you just got to remember that it's not a permanent feeling, it's just a permanent solution to a temporary feeling. You know, and, and and I, I remind myself that when I'm going through dark periods. But, um, seriously, man, as I just said, your music has helped me a lot.
Speaker 3:It's helped me a lot. I love hearing that and, uh, I I always get blown away when I get emails or messages from people telling me that, um you know which is great, because it definitely has gone both ways Uh, the, the unclean album that I wrote was, uh, you know, that was me spilling my guts on paper and then in front of the microphone, and it seemed to really resonate with a lot of people as well.
Speaker 1:Well, it had to be cathartic for you, number one it was yeah. Yeah, and number two. That's one of my all-time five favorite CDs, so if I were ever stranded on an island, that would be one that I'd take.
Speaker 3:Well, I'll share something with you here. You can break as breaking news on your show here.
Speaker 2:This is Channels Television's breaking news.
Speaker 3:We are going to. After we're done with Fallen, we are going to reimagine the album Unclean. We're going to re-record all the tracks and we're going to reimagine it with Colby at the wheel, and we're going to bring out.
Speaker 2:Oh no, no one messes with.
Speaker 4:Colby's guitar. Oh my goodness, Magic fingers.
Speaker 1:How do you describe Rorschach test music?
Speaker 3:Sonically speaking in what you hear. The point of Rorschach test is it's absolutely up to you what you see and hear, and that was the point of the original, you know, inkblot, that was developed by Mr Rorschach himself way back when. It's a really simple answer to the question and that's really metaphorical for life itself. We complicate things as people.
Speaker 4:We try to make it so much more complex than it ever is.
Speaker 3:You know, the bottom line is just by integrating all the pieces of you and allowing those things to be and realizing that you know the only person whose approval matters at the end of the day is yours when it comes to you. And then you know finding that place in your life where you do approve of yourself, where you're OK, and you say you know what, yeah, I'm weird, you know I'm. I've got these good things too. I'm talented. Sometimes I do this, sometimes I do it's OK, it's who I am.
Speaker 1:I'm this person and it's the first Rorschach test, a song that was not written by James Baker, Number one. How long did it take you to write it?
Speaker 4:Maybe 10 minutes.
Speaker 4:It's about it, it came out it came out of a dream and it's not what it I mean it is. There's many layers of meaning to it, but to me it came out of a dream and I was trying to um from a question. In the dream from Apostle Paul and Jesus Christ himself, from Apostle Paul and Jesus Christ himself, like my Netflix mini-series of my Apostle Paul dreams, I was asked kind of to find, well, is there really where is the devil mentioned in the Bible? How many? So I went through the whole Bible and I found every reference to the devil or Satan or whatever. So I didn't even really write it. The Holy Bible wrote it. It came from God.
Speaker 1:Couldn't you have just asked the seminary graduate, instead of going through the whole book when was it finished? Because I always like to ask this question of writers, because it could never be finished. You know they'll go back and rewrite, and rewrite, and rewrite. So when did you know it was done?
Speaker 4:well, I don't think it wasn't really written as lyrics, it was just written down because I was gonna, like, give it back to apostol paul in my dream. Um, I gave them to him and he was like these will make amazing lyrics, but oh yeah, I could still edit it. But actually I don't know. Those are pretty amazing, amazing lyrics, but oh yeah, I could still edit it, but actually I don't know, those are pretty amazing fucking lyrics to me. Even I still hear them and I'm like wow, you know?
Speaker 1:oh, they're great. Oh, they're really great, they're really great. The video spectacular too, as is the uh, as is the. The video and the lyrics for belated. Uh, james, you uh are on record as saying that if the goddess writes something and it's not up to RT Snuff, you'll let her know. How's that conversation? How's that conversation go with your wife?
Speaker 3:I mean we all, we all write. You should hear some of the junk on my computer. I mean there's ridiculous songs that I have invested hours into and then I realized suddenly that this is just stupid. But no, I mean I really haven't found anything yet. I mean she's been pretty pretty how should I put it? Stingy with, with her lyrics and stuff.
Speaker 4:She's very stingy, I hold them to their dreams.
Speaker 3:There's another, there is another, there is another one that's finished on the album. We've already finished it. It's called Embracing the Shadow and it's a great song and I think we're going to be doing a video on it. I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure there's going to be a video on that one too. But yeah, so it's. I really haven't had an occasion where I've said to her I don't want this.
Speaker 4:He's actually begging me for more lyrics when I'm holding them back.
Speaker 1:So the kind of difference to me with the new material and the former material is in. Lament would be the one that would kind of throw water on this whole thing. But it's more melodic to me. The new stuff is more melodic to me. It's a hookier and it's less angry. Am I? Am I speaking out of my ass?
Speaker 3:No, not at all. Yeah, I think, I think, yeah, yeah, I think there's there's not a lot of anger.
Speaker 1:There's still aggression, there's and it. I think there's not a lot of anger, there's still aggression and it's still heavy.
Speaker 4:We get to hear his beautiful voice this time. The singing is screaming and growling. It is not auto-tuner at all. The actual singing, though, makes it feel less angrier and more the way it is.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of texture there.
Speaker 3:There's a lot of texture there, you know we're yeah, we're excited to unveil the whole thing. I think the way it's going to have to work is that we're going to have it available on our website, rorschachtestcom, on Halloween, starting at like 10 o'clock, but the release date is not actually until November 1st. That's because of all the distribution companies are like we only release on.
Speaker 4:Friday. It has to be a Friday.
Speaker 3:It has to be a Friday. So I'm like why does it have to be? Why can't we choose another? No, we're going to do that Thursday.
Speaker 4:sorry You're making me angry. I'm going to write a song.
Speaker 1:Can we go back to a few songs from the early era? Yeah, okay, is Elvis really to blame for all of societal ills?
Speaker 3:No, no, actually that song Was inspired by my dad. When my dad was a soldier In the Korean conflict, he was on a boat Going over to Europe, I guess is where they stationed it. He didn't go to Korea, he went to Germany or something and he was listening to some music that someone was playing. My dad grew up listening only to Buck Owens, merle Haggard, hank Williams, straight country. And when he was in the service he heard Elvis for the first time country. And when he was in the service he heard Elvis for the first time and you know he thought. He thought, wow, this guy is going to really change everything in the world for bad. He's really going to. You know, this is the devil, basically.
Speaker 1:And I thought I just, you know, when my dad told me that story I was just kind of I knew there was a metaphorical meaning to it, but for just the the you know, looking at it you would think oh my God, elvis started all this nastiness.
Speaker 3:Well, there's a lot of blame shifting that goes on in the human experience. You blame rock and roll for all the problems of society and you know, when we get down to it and we don't have anybody else to blame, we can always blame the devil. You know, the devil made me do it.
Speaker 1:That leads me to my next question Satan, you, me, us. We all have a little Satan in us. How?
Speaker 3:No, we don't have Satan in us.
Speaker 1:We have evil.
Speaker 3:What that song is about is taking responsibility for your own actions.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:So you know, when things go wrong in our life, it's you, it's me, it's us. We are the devil we are seeking to blame. We are the ones that do this stuff. So, um, yeah, so that song has been, uh, largely misinterpreted by a lot of people. But again, there's no wrong interpretation of a Rorschach test song, yeah. So, um, you know, if it means something to you, that's religious, that's great.
Speaker 1:It's like you read my notes here, james, because I want to talk about Cripple Touch. Meet me in my car, behind the bar, we'll build a prayer grass, a ladder of hope. What is hope?
Speaker 3:That was cocaine. That story is talking about cocaine A line of hope right yeah, so, um, yeah, and that that song again was a. It's a just was a true story about, uh uh, my one of my experiences when I was young. I met a female at a bar and I had never really done cocaine really and that kind of changed that night.
Speaker 1:That's. That's the song that prompted me to reach out to you, man. I was running and that came on and I'm like I wonder what Rorschach test is doing now. And so I looked you up and you talked about politics a little while ago. Are you amazed that blow up America is still as relevant today as it was back when you wrote it?
Speaker 4:No, no, I mean, I mean I, I don't you know these.
Speaker 3:Uh, that's the song they got you on the fbi. I got a visit from the fbi one fine morning in seattle after releasing that song. Um, and you know they, they notified me that I was officially on their watch list because of the lyrics you know saying and again, it's similar to Satan. You know I am. I'm not asking people to worship the devil. I've never, ever, suggested that to anybody. That's not what that song's about. I would never suggested to anyone that they should do anything terrorist oriented, that they should never. What that song was about it was written from the perspective of the Oklahoma City bomber.
Speaker 1:Today somebody tried to blow up America.
Speaker 3:They got a care of school instead, what was he feeling, what was he thinking at the time, and so that's simply what it was about and people kind of read it in another way. But yeah, I mean we could change the lyrics a little bit. But there's still a lot of very angry and disenfranchised people in this country and I recommend, rather than seeking an outlet of fertilizer and federal buildings, get yourself into some heavy music and therapy and you're going to be okay. We'll see you at the show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I never interpreted those lyrics as you telling somebody to be okay, We'll see you at the show. You know, yeah, I never. I never interpreted those lyrics as you telling somebody to go out and do that. I always got the McVeigh connection and I always. There's a. There's an OJ stanza in there, if I'm not mistaken. You can kill your wife or lover Because the rock star lawyers always beat the state God he set the world on fire tonight.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's just the societal ills, man, that's what it is, you know, and those are the things that need to get blown up. We need to vote for Pedro. We need to vote for Pedro. We need to come together. By the way, that's because, if you're not watching this on YouTube, the narcoleptic goddess is wearing a vote for Pedro shirt, and I went as Napoleon Dynamite one year to a costume contest, so you and I right there again. So well, guys, I can't thank you enough for joining me.
Speaker 1:I can't thank you enough, james, for all of the years of outstanding music and I can't even tell you how happy I am that in 2024 and 2025, rorschach Test is back. Man Sounded better than ever.
Speaker 3:Hey, you know, you've got my, you got my number and you, you know. Just feel free to stay in touch anytime you want or feel like it, ok.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, because in the other podcast that I host with my former radio partner of 25 years, I teased that I was going to be talking to you and I was like you know, if you would have told me in 1998, when I saw this guy performing, that I would have his phone number and we'd be texting back and forth like we're long lost brothers, I'd have called you a fucking liar, but I do. I texting back and forth like we're long lost brothers, I'd have called you a fucking liar, but, dude, I I do. I feel a great connection to all three of you guys, so thank you so much thank you for having us man.
Speaker 1:I got a kiss flown to me from the goddess. I think she's my new favorite member of rorschach test. Sorry, james. My main objective with the fuzzy mic is to let anyone who's battling with mental health demons know that you're not alone, and I thank James, colby and Christine for their candor in helping spread the message. If you or someone you know is struggling with drug addiction or experiencing suicidal thoughts, there are plenty of places to go. Please reach out for help. You can contact the National Suicide and Crisis Hotline at 988 or the Suicide Prevention Hotline 1-800-273-TALK 8255. Or you can call the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration National Helpline at 1-800-662-HELP. Support is available 24-7. And if you're listening to this overseas, outside of the US, go to findahelplinecom. My thanks to James Baker, the narcoleptic goddess, and Colby for joining me For all things regarding the band, including their new music and possible touring in 2025, go to RorschachTestcom For laughter and spontaneous conversation.
Speaker 1:Check out the Tuttle Kline podcast. New episodes every Wednesday. The Fuzzy Mic is hosted and produced by Kevin Kline, production elements by Zach Sheesh. At the Radio Farm, social media director is Trish Kline. I can't believe it. We are close to episode number 100. And you know what that doesn't happen without you. So thank you for joining me and for supporting the Fuzzy Mike. I'll see you next week, fuzzy Mike. Thanks for listening to the Fuzzy Mike. Check back often and stay. Fuzzy, wait a second. Did we read that right?