Hay Testing: Labs, Equipment, and Results

If you’ve ever wondered about the importance of forage and hay testing to ensure your herd is receiving maximum nutrition, today’s episode will provide you with lots of valuable information. We are talking to Cassy Streeter, an expert in near-infrared reflectance spectroscopy (NIR) who directs Dairy One’s NIR affiliate network of more than 30 members in 16 countries. She also holds both Bachelors and Masters degrees in animal science from Cornell University.

Understanding hay quality can help you optimize animal nutrition and productivity, whether you’re raising goats for meat, dairy, or both. Forage testing can be a component in balancing and managing your herd’s nutrition, and even keep you from spending money on unnecessary supplements or expensive feeds.

Wading into the world of hay testing can feel overwhelming. Cassy clarifies the entire process–from collecting a sample, choosing which test best fits your needs, how to send your samples to the lab, and what to do with your results once you receive them.

Cassy also offers some great advice on accessing hay bale corers, also known as hay probes, for sample collection without having to make a costly investment. More importantly, she outlines how to use them correctly. She also pulls back the curtain on how forage testers process and analyze hay samples for accurate results. 

See full show notes here >> https://thriftyhomesteader.com/hay-testing/

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Transcript

Introduction 00:03
For the love of goats. We are talking about everything goat. Whether you’re a goat owner, a breeder, or just a fan of these wonderful creatures, we’ve got you covered. And now, here’s Deborah Niemann.

Deborah 00:17
Hello everyone, and welcome to today's episode. This is going to be really interesting for those of you who really want to get into the nitty gritty of feeding your goats. I always say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And I've never done forage testing for my goats because we're doing good in terms of nutrition for the last 15 years or so. So, for those of you who are wondering about forage testing, today we are joined by Cassy Streeter who works for Dairy One. She's been with them since 2011, and she directs their NIR affiliate network of more than 30 members in 16 countries. She's an expert in near infrared reflectance spectroscopy and manages a lot of projects, including implementation of on-farm NIR technology. And she's got a BS and an MS in animal science from Cornell University. Welcome to the show today, Cassy. 

Cassy 01:16
Hi! Thank you for having me. 

Deborah 01:19
This is going to be a lot of fun, because I've always been interested in this. And like I said to you before we started, I thought, Oh, I am going to have our hay tested before we do this, so that I'll have better questions and stuff. And, and I went to the website to do it, and I was like, Oh, man, I have got so many questions. So I didn't do it. And then, but then, you know what? I said, it's actually, it's good that I didn't, because we were at the tail end of last year's hay. We just had our hay for this winter delivered. So after we have our conversation, I can go back online and I can, can get it, I can get it tested. So first of all, can you tell us what kind of samples you can test in the forage lab?

Cassy 02:01
Sure. So primarily we, you know, Dairy One originally started, we primarily served the dairy industry. So it was feeding forages in the dairy industry. But since then, we have branched out. We also have our equi-analytical services. We're actually celebrating 20 years with that this year. So that was, that was fun. We've started our first month testing equine samples. We only had 16 samples that first month, and now we're getting over 10,000 samples a year. So that business has really grown. And then the newest brand that we have is Zooquarius. So we actually also do feed and forage testing for zoos and aquariums, which is very interesting. So those are kind of the more unusual types that we can test, but we can receive anything across those different brands. The majority are forages, so your hay and silage, things like that, your grains, corn, soybeans, any of the small grains, like wheat and barley. We can also test complete feeds. So if you're providing some kind of pelleted feed–maybe you got it from your local feed store–we can test that as well. You do have a guarantee analysis on those bags of feed. You know, the tag that they always have your rip off and scan at the counter when you go to buy it. If you look on that tag, we do testing similar to that, where we can tell you the amount of protein or fiber or ash, things like that. So we test a pretty wide range. And like I said, it can get into the very exotic with the Zooquarius services. We even test fish, fruits and vegetables, meat, other types of meat have come in. I know I've been asked before the most unusual sample type we've ever received, and it was a banana tree. An entire banana tree arrived. So we test pretty much everything and anything. When we're talking livestock, it's hay, haylage, corn, silage, things like that. Those types of forages are, you know, kind of our bread and butter, but we test a pretty wide range of products. 

Deborah 04:00
And you do pasture and browse also, right? 

Cassy 04:03
We do, we do. Pasture especially. You know, I come primarily from an equine side, and us horse people, we can't wait until summertime when we can just turn the horses out. Hopefully, as long as they don't have, you know, metabolic issues, we can turn them out onto pasture and let them eat the grass. But then we have to think, oh yeah, they're eating grass. I should probably test that too. So we can test pasture samples. Browse is a little, is a little trickier, just because it's harder to figure out how to collect a sample of browse. You have to do–well and this is also the case with pasture–you kind of have to do your homework, and your homework could be standing out in the field watching your animals eat and figuring out what they eat. So to be able to collect a sample of pasture or browse, there is an element of keeping an eye on your animal and seeing, okay, what are they eating, and then going out and collecting some of that sample to send into the lab for us to analyze as well. 

Deborah 04:56
Yeah, that seems like it would be tricky, because you probably have how many different plants growing in your pasture, and then if you get into the bushes and stuff, it seems like it could be really challenging to figure that out. So what kind of testing options do you have available? 

Cassy 05:11
So when you're talking feed and forage analysis, there are two main offerings. This isn't just true of Dairy One, it's true of any of the feed and forage testing labs you have here, especially in the States, is you can do what we call wet chemistry, or reference chemistry. That is the gold standard of testing is doing wet chemistry, because it has the least amount of error when you're doing an analysis. And the results from that are what NIR calibrations are based off of. So with wet chemistry, we can test anything with wet chemistry. The trade off there with wet chemistry, it does take a little bit longer and it's more expensive because there are more chemicals involved, more training for our technicians to be able to perform the analysis. On the other side, the other offering is NIRS which is near infrared reflectance spectroscopy. You did a great job on that in the intro. I have to give credit. A lot of people trip over that. So, so NIR, it's a rapid, non-destructive way of analyzing feed and forage samples. So instead of taking a sample and some of them, we essentially incinerate. Others we add different chemicals to them, or we watch them in a detergent. Instead of doing that, we build calibration libraries that are based off of collecting a spectra of the sample. So you take a sample, put it into the instrument, and it gets a spectral fingerprint of that sample, and then it goes into our library of samples, and it identifies which samples it looks the most like, and it develops a little calibration on the fly and gives you results. The amazing thing is, it only takes a minute for that analysis to happen. However, as you said, I'm the NIR Services Manager, it takes a lot of effort to build those calibration libraries, but Dairy One is celebrating 75 years of being in business this year, so we have a very long history with our feed and forage analysis. We have very large libraries to, to develop calibrations from. So when customers, you know if they need results as soon as possible, and it's forage samples, grains, things like that, we can do that by NIR analysis. It's a little bit cheaper. Trade off is there's a little more error with NIR. You add a little bit more error to the analysis simply because you're kind of compounding the error of that reference chemistry with the NIR analysis. But it works well for a lot of your common feed types or forages and things like that. We can't do NIR on, you wouldn't be able to get your microminerals by NIR. So if you want things like, if you need zinc, copper, manganese numbers, NIR can't give you those numbers. When it comes to minerals, it's, we can give you a rough idea of what your minerals are, but if you're going to be doing any kind of balancing in your ration for minerals, you really should get wet chemistry in that case. So a lot of people like NIR, because it's fast, it's cheaper, but if you start to get into anything exotic, or any of those compound feeds we talked about, or like a ration balancer, or something like that, a complete feed pellet, wet chemistry would be the way to go with something like that. 

Deborah 08:14
Okay. I know, when I looked at the website, I thought, you know, I looked for the directions about collecting a sample, and it was a lot more complex than I expected. So I know I've heard people say before, like, Oh, you just grab a handful of hay from a bale, or two or three bales, which never sounded very precise to me. And then from your website, I learned that you have these really cool tools that, like, bore into the bale of hay to get like a core sample. And then I noticed there were multiple kinds of hay probes. So can you talk a little bit about how to collect a good sample? 

Cassy 08:54
Sure. So when we're talking about collecting hay samples, we always recommend that customers use a hay probe or a, or a corer, a bail corer–sometimes people call it that. But what a hay probe does is, and Dairy One has one available on our website that we're selling. It's the, the Penn State hay probe, and it attaches to a drill. And you would go to your, if you have your, your small square, you're going to go between your strings going through your, going through the flakes within the bail. So you're coming in on the short side, and you're going to drill into the side of the bail with that probe. And when you pull it out, we have a little stopper. You would detach the probe, and then there's a plunger that you plunge into the center, and it pops out the sample. So what that probe is doing is it cuts straight into the bail–it's usually about an inch across–and it probes straight into the bail, and it's getting a nice cross section of the bale. When we talk about, you know, sampling, sampling hay, or actually, well, sampling any forage, what I tell people is, we can accurately analyze the sample that you provide to us. Whether or not the sample you provide accurately represents the forage you have, that's a different matter. So doing the sampling is a really, really key component. So that's why we say with the hay probe, that's the best way to go. You're getting that nice cross section within the bail. And if we go back to what you start off with, saying, Oh, you just break open your bail, grab a handful, throw it in a bag. You can do that. And I mean, if you're up against it, and you really don't have access to a probe, and you're in a spot, you can grab from several different bales. The disadvantage to that is you have to cut open a lot of bales. Normally, we say you core anywhere from like 12 to 20 bales. So just thinking 20 square bales cut open in my barn, it's going to be a bit of a mess. And no one really wants to do that. If you have to do it, you can. The caveat to that is, if you think of when you grab into that bail, what are you grabbing? You're going to be grabbing the more stocky type stuff, right? That's what's going to end up in your hand. The higher quality leafy parts, especially if we're talking about alfalfa, that stuff will crumble off and fall on the floor. So you're probably going to underestimate the value of your hay, because you're going to get that high fiber, stocky part in your hand and and if you're getting a, you know, if you're getting a quality report and say, Oh, wow, it's higher in fiber, it looks like it might be less digestible, not as much protein, you might go to the store and start buying some feed, you know, to supplement with protein and things like that. Now you're spending money, or spending even more, you know, you're spending money on feed that maybe you don't have to. Maybe your bales are actually a better quality, and you don't need to do that. So a popular question is, Okay, so I want to get this forage probe. I don't, I don't have access to one, and I'm not sure if I want to spend the money to buy one, especially if you only have a few animals. I used to just have one horse. For me, it didn't really make sense to get a probe just for, you know, one animal for the two loads of hay I got a year. So some options are, you can check with some of your local livestock clubs. Sometimes they purchase it as a shared resource amongst its members. Your veterinarian might have one. Your local Cooperative Extension–sometimes they have them available, or they'll even come out and help, help you with sampling. Any of the feed company representatives, sometimes they'll come out and they'll be able to take a sample and help you with getting your samples submitted to the lab for testing, and then once the results come back, they can help you with interpreting results and making recommendations for any supplements you might need for your animals. So you're not stuck just having to buy a probe. There's, you look around, look around and see who has what, and you might be able to find a probe out there that someone can let you use. There are several resources for free that you can reach out to. 

Deborah 12:40
Oh, that's wonderful. That's a great tip, because I noticed it's a couple of hundred dollars, so it's not, it is not a cheap little thing to buy, and it's got a very specific purpose. It's like one of those one job tools. 

Cassy 12:53
Yeah, we're not taking that hay probe in the kitchen when we're done with it, are we? Yeah, it's not helping us with our food preparation. It's really just that one thing. Um, but there are, there are other resources. You can go out and see if probes are available. Around here, I know Cooperative Extension is really, really good about it, as well as the feed company representatives. They're very good about it. Like I said, they'll even come out to your place and sample for you and help you with it. So, so reach out.

Deborah 13:18
And you said that you should get samples from like 12 to 20 bales. And then once you've got those core samples, what do you do next? 

Cassy 13:28
Sure. You'll take that–you'll take your, your quart sample, you put them all together to make one composite sample, and you're going to put it into–about a quart-size bag is good. We don't like to get gallon-size bags. That, that's just too much sample now, and if we have to grind the entire thing, that's a lot of processing, and you could incur extra cost. So stick with that quart-size bag, the quart-size recommendation, like I said–I'll also mention or a liter-size bag if we're reaching internationally, don't use quart. So quart or liter-size bag. If you fill that up, that works for both hay as well as pasture, keeping in mind that if we get pasture samples here, we're going to take that sample, we're going to dry it down, and then any of the forage samples, we actually grind it through a mill when it gets here and turn it into a powder. So, with pasture samples, definitely you want to make sure you're really filling that quart-size bag, because those samples are often 80% moisture. So once you take that quart-size bag and you've dried all the moisture out of it, you're not left with a whole lot of material in the end for testing. So we really want that full size bag. So once you have your, your bag of sample, you're going to combine that with a sample submission form, and you can go right on the Dairy One website. We have submission forms available, and you can fill out your information there. If you don't have an account, we'll get you set up with an account, and you will select the testing that you want. If you have any questions about what type of testing is appropriate for your situation, don't hesitate to reach out to us, our phone number or email that's all available on our website, and it's on the sample submission forms as well. You can reach out to us. We can help you with deciding what kind of testing you need, and then you can get your sample shipped over to us. You can–FedEx, UPS, US Mail. Keep in mind, sometimes samples get held up while shipping. Anyone who's had a frustrating experience with their Amazon package understands that. So, keeping that in mind, especially with pasture samples. When you collect a pasture sample, or you're cutting a live, you're cutting live plant material, so respiration is still occurring. So when you're sending in pasture samples, we recommend that you send those samples at the very least cooled, or preferably frozen. When you ship pasture samples, just because respiration is still occurring. You can ship those on ice to us, especially if you think there might be a shipping delay, and get those samples to us ASAP. But you'll send them here to the lab, and we'll receive them on our side and find the analysis you need and get the process started. 

Deborah 15:58
Okay, cool. So they don't have to be sent overnight or anything like that. They can just be sent through regular Priority Mail?

Cassy 16:05
That seems–that would work for most of the samples that we receive. Yes.

Deborah 16:09
Okay, all right, um, and then once it gets to the lab, you grind it down, and then you do the analysis?

Cassy 16:18
It goes to, if you're getting wet chemistry, it goes to different departments here within the forage lab. If you're having NIR analysis performed, it goes to our NIR department, and they'll get your sample scan and get results out. Once the sample has been dried and ground if it's getting NIR,
especially if it's a hay sample–if I get a hay sample in the morning, there's a good chance you're going to have those results by the end of that day. Again, keeping in mind the shipping, you know, with–we have no control over when the sample gets here, but once the sample gets here, most of our packages, even the wet chemistry analysis packages, are done within three to four days, you can expect to get results. But yeah, that dried and ground material. So, you know, we talk about, you think of your lot of hay, right? And you're taking that quart-size bag, and then we're going to take that, we're going to grind that sample down to a powder. And it surprised a lot of people when I say, Yeah, we usually only measure out a gram or so of material to actually test in the end. That's what the analysis is based on. And that just surprises people. I said, Okay, think of all that hay stacked in your barn. We're going to reduce it to this tiny little bit of hay, you know, of sample that we're going to actually test. And people are always surprised by that, but that's a little glimpse behind the curtain of what it looks like here within the lab. 

Deborah 17:35
Yeah. So it comes in, and, I mean, because you're–that's why you're grinding it up and mixing it and everything, so that it really is a representative sample. 

Cassy 17:44
Yes, we, we're trying to make the samples as homogeneous as we can. If you, if you think of something–forage like alfalfa, right? Alfalfa kind of grows like a tree. There's the stemy part. It's lower quality. It's high in fiber, not much in quality going on. But then you think of the leaves, just like on a tree, that's where the good stuff is. So trying to analyze that plant as a whole is going to be really difficult. So that's where we take the sample. We grind it through a mill, and now you've got this powder that's a mix of both the good and the poorer quality parts of that individual plant, with grasses a little less so. The quality is a little more consistent along the length of it. But especially if you're talking something like alfalfa, different parts of the plant are very different qualities. So we want to get what that average is, because the, well, I know this is true for horses, they'll just kind of chomp on–horses and cows will just chomp on anything. Goats are a little more, little more particular when it comes to what they, you know, nibble on, but they're still going to be eating most of that material. So you want to get, you want to get what the total quality of that plant material is. 

Deborah 18:50
Okay. So once you've tested it, and you said earlier that there's different tests that you run on it, whether it is wet or dry. So can you talk about the difference between the types of results that you get based upon the type of testing that you do? 

Cassy 19:06
Sure. So you can get, if you get one of our NIR packages, those are pretty standard, but our wet chemistry, you can actually customize it however you want. So, it doesn't matter if the sample itself is wet or dry. However a sample comes in, as long as it's eligible for NIR, you can get either NIR or wet chemistry. And with wet chemistry, let's say maybe you're just interested in protein, and you're not interested in one of our, our package deals. You can go ahead and there's a custom fee that you can select and say, I just want, I just want the protein, and we'll give you a custom fee that takes care of all of our, you know, sample processing and handling and things like that. And then you would just check off protein. Or, in the equine world there's a big focus on sugars. We actually have a wet chemistry package that is our called our “carb pack,” that gives you the starch water soluble carbohydrates and the ethanol soluble carbohydrates, and that's it. So you have flexibility there as well. Maybe you want that and say, Okay, I want the carbohydrates. I also want to see what the protein is. Go ahead and add the protein onto that package. So there's a lot of flexibility on the wet chemistry side. We have preset packages you can select from, or you can make your own custom package depending on what your needs are.
And then on the NIR side, we have a few different forage packages available. And then we have a standard package for a TMR, a standard package for grains, and a standard package for our commodities that you can select from if you've got a sample type that qualifies for one of those packages. 

Deborah 20:40
Okay, excellent. And then once people get the results, what should they do with them? 

Cassy 20:44
Some of it depends on the person. There are some people that they get the numbers and they know exactly what to do with them. And then we have other people that say, Okay, this is the first time I've tested, we give them results, and they say, Okay, what now? So there are a few different things you can do with those results once you get them. Some of our customers reach out to us because it was at the recommendation of their veterinarian. So normally, when they get results back, the first person they're going to go to is go back to their veterinarian. In livestock, there are a lot of nutritionists out there, or also nutrition software that's available. I know there are several options on the, you know, the dairy and beef side for ration development software. There's some in equine. And we provide, we provide results in a filed format that can actually be uploaded into that software, the ration software, that can go directly in, and you can kind of plug and play and go from there if that's what you're using. Again, your local extension office can also help you if you're facing some kind of nutritional challenge there. You can go to a feed company representative if you have your forage results and you're saying, Well, so this is what I have with my hay, but I want to give some extra nutrition. Maybe you have an animal that you know if they're, if they're producing milk, or they're pregnant or they're under heavy work of some kind. Considerations like that, or maybe, maybe they have a disease, maybe they're sick, you can go and discuss with a feed company representative and ask them and say, Okay, this is my hay. What would you have available you think that would work for, for supplementing, and they can help you look at your analysis and say, Okay, here are some of the products that you could purchase that will match well with that hay to satisfy the needs of your, your animals. 

Deborah 22:28
Okay. Is there anything else that people need to know about testing their hay or forage?

Cassy 22:35
A question that we, we get a lot is, you know, if you're getting hay, if you're getting hay from the same person every year, do you need to test your hay every year? The answer to that is yes. Even speaking from our location here in Ithaca, New York, I can tell you, I don't think the weather has been the same any two years in a row for the past decade. We actually had some drought conditions here locally, gosh, I can't remember how many years ago. Surrounding areas were fine, but right here, around Ithaca and the Finger Lakes region, we actually had drought happening, so our crops looked a little different, even from just the neighboring county, and it certainly looked different from the previous year and then the following year looked different from the drought year. So I encourage people to be testing their forages whenever there's a new lot of hay. Or, if you're talking either seasonal or you're buying some in the spring, and then you're buying new crop, you know, in the fall, I would test, you know, I would test both of them. And year to year, even if you're purchasing from the same person, same field, there are all sorts of considerations there. There could be new fertilizer, a new seeding, and just the environmental conditions in general. We're never really sure what we're going to get for a growing season with these crops. So keeping up on, you know, frequent testing. You know, if you have a, if you have a feed test from three years ago, it's not going to help you much today. And I also do the same, you know, mentioned the same idea with testing pasture, because, obviously, you get several, several new growths throughout the year on your pasture over the summer. Turn the animals out. They graze it down. You move them to a different pasture. That pasture grows back up again. I would take a sample when you're turning them out on a pasture again, just to check. If the quality isn't really varying much, then you can probably dial back your testing throughout the season. Maybe you only have to test a couple of times instead of every single time. It really depends on the species you have in your field and how you manage your pastures. But that's another recommendation that I, that I have for people. 

Deborah 24:35
That is really interesting. I remember, there is somebody I know who raised meat goats for probably close to 20 years, and she would get her hay tested, and she would use that knowledge to make sure that she was giving them a good amount of protein, because they were meat goats so she wanted to make lots of meat. 

Cassy 24:53
Yes, absolutely.

Deborah 24:54
So, you know, she would buy multiple loads of hay through the year because different cutting–and different cuttings are going to have different results–and I remember her saying that, like, if she got one that had a low protein and another one that had a higher protein, that she’d basically, like, feed one in the morning and the other one in the afternoon to average it out towards the middle. Which I thought was interesting, because normally we're always like, oh, let's feed the one that we bought first, because we don't know, you know, what the protein is. So I thought that was just interesting. That's one simple thing that somebody could do as a result of knowing what the protein levels are on their hay. 

Cassy 25:31
Oh, absolutely. I mean, management is what it comes down to. What we balance against. And again, I know I'm a horse person, but something that's a challenge on the, on the equine side of things, is there are a lot of people out there with horses that have metabolic conditions and they're prone to laminitis. If your horse is starting to get a little heavy and you're thinking, Maybe I need to test the quality of the hay. Might be over feeding this animal. Or if you're making a purchasing decision, you know. Maybe, maybe you are in one of those lucky people that gets a choice. A lot of us just have, you know, our hay person, right? We just get the hay from our hay person. In some of the areas of the country, I mean, it's, it's pretty cutthroat on purchasing hay, and you want to find the hay that works for you. You don't want to pay money for super quality if that's not what you need. But you do want to make sure that it's satisfying the needs of what your animals, you know, need to, need to consume. So with horses that are metabolic, you know, I look at the cost of well, if you see they're starting to get heavy, and you should address the nutrition first, because I can tell you, the cost of testing your hay is way less than having a vet come out to have to treat laminitis. So if we can prevent, you know, illnesses or losses in production, I mean, those have real impacts on your pocketbook. Same as, you know, with testing your hay, that is at least it gives you the information so you can go ahead and address those issues before they come up, because that, that takes a real hit when you have unexpected vet bills, or, you know, in the case of, as you just mentioned, the person raising meat goats, if they're not getting that production out of those goats, that's, that's gonna, that's gonna take a hit on the money side too. So this little bit of investment can really help head off some of these problems. And that really is the overarching goal of Dairy One in general, across all of our business units is it's measurement to management, or we measure it so you can manage it. It's always good to have that information, and you're more informed, you can make better decisions about how you're managing all of your resources, your animals, and the feed that you're giving them. And that example you gave of, yeah, you have two different qualities of hay, and yeah, it's been ingrained, right? You always feed the old stuff first, because it's going to get dusty and you don't want it left over. Well, there's some management decisions you can make to say, Well, if I just, if I feed this stuff, I'm going to underfeed them, and then I'm going to overfeed protein on the other side, and waste money that way. But if you can balance it. You can get the best use out of the forge that you have. So, you know, it's an excellent point. 

Deborah 28:05
Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us today. This has been really interesting. Do you have any final thoughts? 

Cassy 28:11
Just if anyone has any questions, you can go on the Dairy One website. We have resources there available that you can look up. Our sample submission forms are there. There are instructions on taking hay samples and pasture samples. You can also visit our equi-analytical website or our Zooquarius website, if you really want to take a walk on the wild side and visit Zooquarius. And if you have any questions, just reach out to us. We understand when you look at that sample submission form, if you're just getting into hay testing, it can be pretty overwhelming. So if you have a question to say, Okay, I have my goats, and this is the hay I'm feeding them, I'd like to test it. Where do I go? What do I do? You can start with the website, but if there's still some lingering questions, and you just want to get a hold of someone, reach out to us. You can call us, or you can email us. We're happy to help you get the analysis that you need. 

Deborah 29:03
Yeah, I definitely got overwhelmed when I went to the website and started reading about it, and then seeing the hay probe tester things and all of that. And I was like, Oh, I'm so glad I've got this call lined up. I can get all of my questions answered. So, I'm sure this has been helpful to everybody who is interested in this topic. It's definitely, I sure learned a lot. So thank you very much for joining us today. 

Cassy 29:24
Thank you so much for having me. It was great. 

Deborah 29:27
And that’s it for today’s show. If you haven’t already done so, be sure to hit the “subscribe” button so that you don’t miss any episodes. To see show notes, you can always visit ForTheLoveOfGoats.com and you can follow us on Facebook at Facebook.com/ LoveGoatsPodcast. See you again next time. Bye for now!