Be the Brave Ones

Seen, Known, Loved: Understanding Our Worth w/Cally Logan

• Brave Girls Gather

Share episode

Send us a Message

In the latest episode of our Seen Known Loved series, Mandie and Lauren dive deep into how Jesus sees us through the story of the Woman at the Well and continue exploring Psalm 139, reminding us of God’s unwavering presence even in our darkest moments.

We’re thrilled to have Christian author Cally Logan join us for this conversation! She shares her personal journey of feeling truly known by God and discusses her new book, The Wallflower That Bloomed. Cally highlights that self-love must be rooted in God’s view of us and how this perspective enables us to love others more deeply.

This episode highlights how Jesus shattered social and cultural barriers by engaging with the Samaritan woman, showing us another beautiful example of conviction over condemnation. Through His compassionate and truthful approach, we see how genuine transformation and powerful testimonies are born.

As the episode wraps up, we reflect on how Jesus' actions were viewed by others and stress the importance of reaching out to those who feel alone and unseen!

Don’t miss out—join the conversation, explore the Brave Conversation tool on our website, and check out our Spotify playlist to dive deeper into being seen, known, and loved by Jesus. 

Help us forward the mission to see the next generation live our their faith with resilience and courage by making donation here

Connect with Cally Logan


Give to Brave Girls Gather

Mandie:

You're loving yourself in a way that you have respect for. Hey, God made this person and that per son's me, and so I'm going to love what God made and I'm going to steward it well, Helping you live brave, build community and pass on courageous faith to the girls around you.

Delaney:

This is Be the Brave Ones podcast.

Mandie:

Hey everybody, it's Mandy. We are back for episode two in the Seen Known Loved series, and I'm here again with Lauren. Hey Lauren, hey, mandy.

Lauren:

It's good to be back again.

Mandie:

Episode two yes it is so glad to be back and loved that first conversation that we had last week so much. We got to talk with a mother-daughter duo and dive into what the series is all about and specifically, we took a look at one of the women that we've been looking at in this series. Guys, what we're doing is we are going through and examining how Jesus sees us by looking at how Jesus saw four different women in Scripture and last episode if you haven't checked it out, go back and check it out we talked about the woman with the issue of blood. She was struggling with something that wasn't her fault. She couldn't help what she was going through, but she was being rejected by those around her. But Jesus saw her different than everybody else and she sought after Him with faith and trust, and she received a miracle in the midst of a crowd. And so we are wanting to continue in this series examining how Jesus sees us.

Mandie:

We have another amazing guest who's joining us today. She's been with us before. Her name is Callie Logan and we're going to talk with her in just a minute. But we wanted to continue setting up this episode for today and talk a little bit about where we're going, starting with Psalm 139, because we've been kind of grounding ourselves in Psalm 139 as a lens to look through and examine the rest of the stories that we're looking at, starting with the presence of God with us and how God sees us, and I just don't know if there is a better scripture in the Bible that can help us do that better than Psalm 139. So we're going to jump into that now. Psalm 139, verses 7 through 12. Lauren, would you go ahead and read that for us.

Lauren:

Yes, it says where can I go from your spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there. If I make my bed in the depths, you are there. If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, even you are there. If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, even there, your hand will guide me. Your right hand will hold me fast. If I say surely the darkness will hide me and the light become night around me, even the darkness will not be dark to you. The night will shine like the day, for darkness is as light to you. What stood out to you in these?

Mandie:

verses Lauren.

Lauren:

I think these promises of God I see you are there. You are there, your hand will guide me, your hand will hold me fast. The light is, or the darkness is, light to you. And just seeing these promises of God kind of in this context of a God who doesn't leave us, like there's nowhere we go without God, and it was a beautiful reminder.

Mandie:

I agree, a beautiful reminder that we're not getting away from him. It's one of the most encouraging scriptures to me in all of scripture, and it's been a deep encouragement to me, especially when I am concerned about loved ones or friends who are. I see them going the wrong way and I'm like Lord, you're going with them and Lord you're also with me. It's just amazing to think so when we look at this scripture. I wanted to know what does it mean if I take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea? That's kind of the furthest east and the furthest west. So the reader during this time would have known what that meant, that the psalmist is conveying I can go to the highest height, I can go to the deepest depth, I can go as far east or as far west as I want to go, but the presence of God is going to be with me in all those places. And today we're going to be looking at the story of the woman at the well. It's one of my favorite stories as well in all of scripture. So this is just a wonderful episode to have a conversation about today. But this is a woman who was seeking fulfillment in all the wrong places, but particularly in relationships. She was seeking to be fulfilled and I can certainly relate to that, and I'm sure there are a lot of listeners who can relate to that, and we're going to dig more into that later with our guest, callie. But no matter, listeners, no matter where we go, no matter where your loved one goes, listeners, no matter where we go, no matter where your loved one goes, the presence of God is there and the presence of God is able to pursue their heart, is able to pursue our heart, so let's keep that in mind as we continue to progress through this conversation.

Mandie:

So we're going to welcome our guest on, callie Logan. She is a US history teacher, you guys, and she isa senior writer for Crosswalkcom. She served as a small group leader for high school girls for several years and she enjoys challenging her students to develop deeper relationships with God and to live fearlessly and authentically In her spare time. She enjoys spending time in nature, chatting over coffee I do, too and woodworking, so we are so excited to have you back, callie. Thanks for being here.

Mandie:

Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be back.

Mandie:

Absolutely. I have a question for you. Tell us about this woodworking thing, I got to know a little bit more about that

Mandie:

.

Cally:

I think that's always the one that throws people, because everything else seems like it belongs and they're like what? So my dad is from Wisconsin and so growing up we'd spent a lot of time out there and his uncles did a lot of woodworking and so they really instilled in me the love of that. So when I was in like sixth grade I decided to take it on and try to start making stuff out of wood, and of course I've improved since then, because those beginning pieces were not very. But it's just a great hobby that I really love doing, especially with my dad. It's just something that we come together and it's really just a shared joy.

Mandie:

Oh, that's really sweet Special that you share that with your dad. And speaking of shared joy, we just came out of a series over the summer. It was called Summer of Joy, and so we've been asking some of our guests what is something that you experienced recently that brought you a significant amount of joy?

Mandie:

I love that question. I think it would be. I have the opportunity to go back. I used to live in Minnesota, and so I got to go back to Minnesota this summer and visit my best friend. And one day we went on a walk and we got caught in a massive downpour, rainstorm, and we were already two, three miles from the car and so, instead of running as fast as we could back to the car, we just enjoyed the rain and we ran around and we acted like we were a couple of kids and we just laughed and had fun and we were soaked to the bone. But I will tell you, I have not had that much joy in quite a while. It was so much fun.

Mandie:

That sounds like a lot of fun. What a sweet moment that you shared with your friend there and thanks for sharing that, you guys. I want to let you guys know that when Callie reached out to me, she reached out to me at the beginning of actually it was before the summer even got here. I think it was around May. It might've been at the beginning of the summer. I got this email from Callie and she was letting me know that she was releasing a new book about people's hunger to be seen, known, accepted and loved. It's something that she said in the email and she did not know that we were actually putting together this series called Seen, known, loved at that very time. So when I got her email, I knew right away yes, callie, we have to have you on our next series, but tell us a little bit about the book, callie.

Cally:

I'd love to, an d that's so cool. I love how the Lord works like that because he has such divine timing. So my new book is called the Wallflower that Bloomed, and the heart of the book is to encourage individuals and the blooming of who God made them to be. Because we live in such a culture where society will tell you who you should be or you'll have people around you saying, oh no, this is who you are, let me explain. Or we even put on all these different masks and we try on different masks to try and be different versions of who we think we are, but in truth, our creator knows exactly who we are. So it's a book to be kind of a companion guide as you ask God, thought provoking questions as you look backwards, as you look present, as you look forwards, and some practical and tactical ways to just dig in, to know God better and know who he made you to be better.

Mandie:

Something that you had mentioned in the summary of the book, or maybe even in the email you sent me, was the importance of how we see ourselves, and that being part of our ability to live out our identity with confidence and courage, and so talk to us about that. Why is it so important for us to love ourselves?

Cally:

I think it's something that gets distorted in our culture a lot these days because there's an idea of putting self first and that can get weird in the way of pride.

Cally:

But we are called to love ourselves because humility before the Lord is still loving his creation in us, and it's loving it because we love him most and because he calls us beautiful, and so it's looking at ourselves and looking that person in the mirror through the lens of Christ, and so this book really does seek to encourage self-love in the way that it is through God and a proper balance. So you're not you're not number one God's still number one but you are honoring the creation that God made in you and you're loving yourself in a way that you have respect for hey, God made this person and that person's me, and so I'm going to love what God made and I'm going to steward it well. Hating on ourselves or speaking poorly about ourselves or having low self-esteem, that's not honoring God. That's not stewarding these days on earth or our bodies that he's given us. So it's really a look at stewarding that well.

Lauren:

Yeah, I love what you said about humility and recognizing that we are a creation, and so much of your confidence as you speak about that and hearing that you know who you are because you know who God is and who God has created you to be.

Mandie:

It also makes me think about how the world always seems to have and this is the work of the enemy a distorted view of something that God intended for good, like self-love. Right, it is not about elevating ourselves. It is about, how you said, callie, seeing ourselves as God sees us. And I'm reading this book right now. It's called Try Softer and it's written by a counselor, and it's really about how we talk to ourselves and the importance of being softer with ourselves. And so I didn't realize how much I attack myself, criticize myself and put myself down.

Mandie:

I would say that I don't really do that, but ever since reading this book and tuning into the ways that I talk to myself, I do it, and I think that it's a common thing amongst girls especially, and women.

Mandie:

We do this, we hold ourselves to these high standards, we're so quick to talk down to ourselves, and if we don't talk good to ourselves, how much more difficult is it to talk good to others?

Mandie:

And I am recognizing, as the book points out, that talking softer to myself is actually making me more compassionate towards others. So it's connected how we see ourselves. But you're right, callie, in that it's rooted and grounded in how God sees us and we're going to see that in this story, we're going to see in every single story with Jesus that he is full of this tremendous compassion towards others. And so we're not just looking at these stories, we're not just having this series because we want us to know that we are seen, known and loved. So important we got to get that first, but also so that we can go and see and know and love people like Jesus did. But if we don't get that first part right, we can't do it. And so how do you think, callie, knowing that God sees, knows and loves us helps us not only love ourselves but love others?

Cally:

I think it changes our perspective on things because we're no longer just using our flesh eyes right, or our own understanding. We're not leaning into our own understanding, but instead we're looking at okay, what does God say? How does he lead? And it does begin internally, because a lot of times the way that we see ourselves can have an impact on how we see others or how others perceive that we see them. And so I think a lot of times connecting with him and getting that internal root secure can have an impact elsewhere.

Cally:

And, like you were saying, it does impact those younger than us too. A big thing is I'm really big on young women being how they're going to try and mimic us. They're looking to us as mentors, they're looking to us as mothers, they're looking to us as big sisters, and so if we speak kindly to ourselves and to those around us, they're going to adopt those habits. And so a lot of times we get really hyper-focused on the bad habits that kids will pick up, but I think there's a way to instill and encourage good habits too.

Mandie:

That's so good. We talked about this on last episode of different girls that I've talked to who've expressed that hearing their mom talk about themselves poorly started to cause them to question themselves. And I don't think we recognize that. I don't think we recognize, when we are self-critical, that the young girls listening might say, oh well, maybe I need to be paying attention to that and we can actually pass that on to them. I agree wholeheartedly there that how we speak to ourselves, even out loud, and the way that we view ourselves is impacting and influencing the next generation.

Mandie:

So on our podcast, we always have a get real moment. Well, it's something we started doing last series and we're sticking to it. And so we'd like to take a question or a question that's like one of the questions from our conversation cards and our brave conversation tool we recently released, and ask it to our guest. And so, if you're listening and you're like, what is that? What is a Brave Conversation tool? A Brave Conversation tool is a tool that helps you have a meaningful conversation with the girls and women in your life. You can bring them together, print up these conversation cards, lay them on the table and have a conversation about the things that we're talking about, and so, kelly, one of the questions that we want to ask you is what are some things that you've turned to that have left you feeling empty?

Cally:

That was a great question.

Cally:

I think there's a few different things, but I do think friendships.

Cally:

I think that's something that a lot of times, especially as women, we crave connection, and so sometimes we think that one of the safer connections to have is through friendships. Lot of humans, there will be a letdown and there will be a gap or a hole that is discovered through that friendship, and I've experienced that a couple of times where I was really looking to that person to fill or occupy a seat that was never meant for them, and that was something that the Lord really brought me through and refinement was that I was, you know, maybe even looking for that friend to fulfill. You know a hole in my heart that I I wanted to have more compassion or I wanted to have deeper relationship, but those were things that God wants to fill in his way and in his time and I was placing it wrongly on someone else, and so I really even had to come to them and repent and say I'm sorry that I placed an expectation on you to fulfill something that you were never made to fulfill.

Mandie:

I love that you went to them and shared that, and that is something so huge that not only women struggle with but girls struggle with as well. And if you guys can even remember back to your middle school and high school years, we did that right. We started that back then. We have this propensity inside of us to do that and really what we're doing is we're trying to put someone in a space that only Jesus can fulfill, and when Jesus is in that space, it frees us to be a better friend. If we're in a relationship, it frees us to be a better girlfriend, a better wife. When we have that part of our heart satisfied. What do you think, lauren?

Lauren:

I think at the root of some of that is that we are looking for someone to know us and oftentimes I think we do it without even like opening ourselves up vulnerably. We're just like you know, by spending a little bit of time with them, they should know me deeply because they're my friend, they should love me deeply because they're my friend. And, like you, when we try to be that friend and we fail, like we have to recognize that we cannot be that friend or we cannot be that spouse, and I think it propels us to pray for that person, or the spouse or the boyfriend. Instead of being the one who knows, like I think, we want to be the one who, oh, I know everything about you. I'm the closest, I'm the best friend, I'm this or that, but how are we loving them and how are we engaging with them? And I think if we allow God to see, know and love them first, we're actually being a better friend.

Mandie:

Yeah, I love that you mentioned prayer, because we're demonstrating faith that God I'm not able, but God, you are, so you come through, you, do something. God, I'm going to lean on you, and I've seen this recently as well a clinging so tightly to a relationship or a friendship that it actually pushes the relationship away, like we could idolize something and hold it so tightly that we put undue pressure on the other person and we make them start to go whoa, whoa, whoa, and it all stems back to not having that relationship in its rightful place, which is God in the rightful place, receiving fulfillment from God, letting him be everything that we need. Now I do want to point out that he made us relational beings. He made us to need others, so God alone is good, and if we had to survive with just God, we could but praise God. He didn't make us that way.

Mandie:

He actually made us to be in relationship with others, and so it's a beautiful thing to have relationships, and relationships I will testify have brought me what I needed I'm sure you guys can too what I needed when I needed it and have been the strength that I've needed, but not because it was a friend who was strong, but because it was a friend who had Jesus in them and the strength of Jesus in them was adding to the strength of Jesus in me, and that's what friendship should do, I believe, is they should add to us. So we, as I said before, we're going to jump into the story with the woman at the well, and that is in John, chapter 4, verses 1 through 30. Lauren, would you go ahead and read that?

Lauren:

I will. It says Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John Although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples. So he left Judea and went back once more to Galilee. Now he had to go through Samaria. So he came to a town in Samaria called Sychar, and I don't know if I said that right. I think you did.

Mandie:

I get it to you.

Lauren:

Near the plot of ground Jacob had given to his son Joseph. Jacob's well was there and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about noon when a Samaritan woman came to drink water. Jesus said to her will you give me a drink? His disciples had gone into the town to buy food. The Samaritan woman said to him you are a Jew and I'm a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink? For Jews do not associate with Samaritans. Jesus answered her.

Lauren:

If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water. Sir, the woman said you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and livestock? Jesus answered Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life. The woman said to him Sir, give me this water so that I won't get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water. He told her Go, call your husband and come back. I have no husband. She replied. Jesus said to her You're right when you say you have no husband. The fact is, you have had five husbands and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true, sir.

Lauren:

The woman said I can see that you are a prophet. Our ancestors worshipped on this mountain, but you Jews claimed that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem. Woman, jesus replied believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know. We worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming, and has now come, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is Spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.

Lauren:

The woman said I know that Messiah, called Christ, is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us. Then Jesus declared I the one speaking to you. I am he. Just then his disciples returned and were surprised to find him talking with a woman, but no one asked what do you want or why are you talking with her? Then, leaving her water jar, the woman went back to the town and said to the people come see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could this? That's so good. There's so much in that.

Mandie:

I feel like we could talk for a really long time, but verse 39, I also want to point out in the middle of that's Jesus talking to his disciples, and there's a lot of important stuff in there, but for sake of time, I also want to include verse 39, which says many Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony. He told me all that I ever did, and so let's start this conversation with what stood out to you about the woman in this story.

Cally:

I think what stood out to me the most was that Jesus knew all that she had done, and I know that's kind of one of the big focal points that gets highlighted often, but I think about it.

Cally:

I had a moment with the Lord back in February and I was in prayer. I got woken up in the middle of the night and I really had this amazing conversation with the Lord and I felt in my innermost being there's the Hebrew word nefesh, and it's your soul, it's who you are, and I felt that the Lord penetrated my nefesh and I felt so known that I was shaken in my core in a good way and I never related to this woman more than in that moment Because I realized, whoa, I'm not just seen, known and loved. I am seen, I am known and through that I felt loved because I was so seen and known. And so it just again is resonating within me of that knowing where you're shaken, to your core and in the best way. And it's how could you have known that unless you were divine, you know kind of thing? And just the recognition that she goes oh, whoa, you're of God, because there's no other way you could know all of that about me, unless you truly are a conduit of God himself.

Mandie:

Yeah, like going back to the beginning of the story and considering her at that point that she's coming to the well when no one else is there, so she's hiding. She's probably dealing with loneliness. She's I'm over you people looking at me giving me the side eye, so I'm going to come when nobody else is here. And her scandalous past. You know she's been married five times and she's with someone else now. So she probably feels unworthy.

Mandie:

And for Jesus to just come in and break all the norms and talk to her the way that he talked to her. He doesn't shy away I know I'm jumping to the question about Jesus here but he doesn't shy away from truth. Like he even goes as far as to tell her that you worship what you don't know, but we worship who we know. Say something like that today and watch what happens. Like you can't say things like that unless you've done something different. So he does something different in the beginning. He breaks the cultural norm, he kind of shocks her, not intentionally, he's not manipulating, he's just being God, he's just being Jesus. But for her, her heart is now in a place for him to be able to say something like that, because she's like I discern you must be a prophet. There's something about you. It's different than anything else I've ever experienced before in my entire life Because, listeners, if you don't know this story, jews and Samaritans didn't speak to each other, they didn't like each other, and she was a woman and he was a man.

Mandie:

So I imagine that she must have been sitting there going what is happening, what's going on, and then he knows her, he knows her past and, like you were saying, callie, like the revelation of he's Messiah, like the potential for that. First she calls him a prophet, but then also how she goes and tells everybody that, like her testimony is go meet a man who told me everything I ever did. All the townspeople already knew everything she ever did. That was like her biggest kind of Achilles heel, like the pain point. The pain point became the testimony. So I know I shared a lot there. But, lauren, what did you see with the woman?

Lauren:

Yeah, I think, just overall her reaction to him approaching her, the questions that she asks, that, instead of taking up this spirit of defensiveness and explaining her actions and things like that, she's curious. She's like why are you talking to me? This isn't, this, doesn't happen. And are you greater than Jacob? As she engages with Jesus.

Lauren:

And then I think the piece at the very end of the story it says then, leaving her water jar, she went back to town and so that this reaction to the full experience that she had with Jesus was like she left what she was doing and she's like I have to go tell people and we were talking these people that she probably felt isolated from and she just felt I have to go tell them. And so that really struck me that leaving her water jar, like she left everything she was doing to go tell people, to go get them, and then they all came back with her, like that, just her whole reaction to being seen, known and loved is an encouragement to me and I think it testifies to the power of this interaction with Jesus that she had experienced.

Mandie:

Yeah, and she left the water, and in the story, jesus is telling her that he's living water and that he has the water that's going to fulfill her to where she won't be thirsty again. So she leaves her water Like it's such a picture of okay, I got it, but the thing I came for I'm leaving that behind, because what I just got is what's going to be for real. I could go give everybody a drink of this water, but what they really need is the water that you just gave me, and so let's talk about that. What stands out let's jump ahead and what stands out to you about Jesus in this story?

Cally:

I think his compassion that he's talking to somebody that no one wanted to talk to and kind of the I want to say almost obvious point of like, nah, you don't associate with her kind of thing, and Jesus takes it upon himself to go talk to her, and I think that really stood out to me, him really going to truly the definition of outcast there, coming with compassion to talk to her. But he's not wavering, he's not weak, he still stands firm, but there is that love and that truth that he's standing on to offer her truth. And I just think that is so neat and it's such a reminder to us that when he calls us into places to talk to people in different ways, to not waver, yeah, and it says that he had to go through Samaria.

Mandie:

He had to, and I looked up those words there and it means that it was divine. Let me look at what exactly what it said. It said a divine necessity. It was a divine necessity for him to go through Samaria and it leads to him revealing himself as Messiah, and this is actually the first time he ever refers to himself clearly, bluntly, as plain as day, as Messiah. It was the shortest route to get to where he was going was to go through Samaria, but the other Jews would actually go around it. That's how much they did not want to go through Samaria, is that they would literally walk around it. They take the long route, but Jesus says no, we're going to go through Samaria. Is that they would literally walk around it? They take the long route, but Jesus says no, we're going to go straight through.

Mandie:

Here Again, he's breaking those cultural norms. And then he sits down and he talks to a woman, but not just any woman, the Samaritan woman. Jesus is really pointing out these people where there's animosity between them I've got something here and also the Samaritans. The reason why there was this animosity between the Jews and the Samaritans was the Samaritans were a people group that had come from the Jews who had stayed behind in this area and intermarried with the Gentiles. So the Jewish people saw them as impure. So the Jews just really rejected them. But the first person that Jesus says I'm going to make it so clear that I'm the Messiah is to the Samaritan woman.

Mandie:

I believe that Jesus says I'm going to make it so clear that I'm the Messiah is to the Samaritan woman. I believe that Jesus was really saying something there and we should really allow that to seep into our hearts. I can't remember that word. What was that word you use, Callie? Oh, nephesh, Nephesh. We should let that go into our nephesh right that Jesus, the first person he decided to tell he was Messiah, was a sinful, rejected woman. Let that hit your heart. That's how much Jesus cares about you If you're feeling rejected, if you're female, he cares about men too. Don't get me wrong, but we can take this one and we can cherish it in our heart and go.

Mandie:

No, like Jesus. This is how you feel about me.

Lauren:

You love me like this I think you were talking about it earlier but that condemnation versus conviction and the way that Jesus approaches the conversation, the way that he draws her out, like instead of saying you know you did this and you did that and you did that, he asks these questions or gives her like the go, call your husband and come back and shows that he knows these things about her, without just being like well, you've been married too many times, you need to change your ways. And I think that's just a picture of the God that we love. He does not approach us and say with his finger wagging and yelling at us. That's not his character, and so that really stood out in this story to me, just the approach that he took, the way that he talked to her, and I just feel his kindness reading this story.

Mandie:

Yeah, and he does it the right way. He's such an example to us of how we're not only supposed to receive from him what he wants to give us, but also how we're supposed to be, which is not to conform to cultural norms. We have to seek the heart of Jesus, and it comes from time in His Word and examining these stories and going Jesus, what were you doing? You know? Our final question is what were the onlookers thinking? And there's not a lot of onlookers in this story per se, not like there was last week but we have the disciples we're looking on, we have the people of the town which she went and told looking on, and then we're the onlookers. What is Jesus saying to us today? So I'm curious what do you guys see when you look at the onlookers in this story?

Lauren:

I was surprised that the disciples didn't say anything. It says no one asked what do you want? Why are you talking to her? It says they were surprised. They were surprised to find them talking to her, but they didn't ask, they didn't call it out, and so part of me was like, have they just seen this enough of Jesus that they've come to expect this as his character? Or what was their heart posture? And it doesn't tell us. But yeah, it's just interesting that they didn't ask. Yeah, I don't know if you guys have thoughts on that or something else that stood out to you.

Mandie:

Well, hearing you say that it makes me think of being teachable. I had to look back at it, but maybe you're right, lauren, in that they've seen this from Jesus and they're more so like mesmerized by it and just presume that there must be something in here that we need to understand, that we don't understand. And then the part in the middle that we didn't read is Jesus talking about the harvest. So he goes into a teaching moment of us reaping what we have not sown and the reaper and the sower rejoicing together, and I think that he's showing them like these are the places you're going to need to go, the places you don't want to go, the people you don't want to talk to. That's where the harvest is. It's kind of what I see. I kind of like went way over here with that, but yeah, no, that's good.

Cally:

No, I think it's great. And I think too, with onlookers thinking about the townspeople, I am so curious what they would have thought I just her showing up in the middle of town. After she was somebody who, literally to avoid people, would go in the middle of the day just to avoid people. And then she shows up in the middle of town and she's loud. She's not just kind of sneaking on over like hey guys.

Cally:

No, she's like y'all better listen.

Cally:

And that gets me excited because that had to be startling and such a compelling way to them, because Jesus also chose somebody who was so outcasted that when she did come back into the town, for whatever reason, good or bad people were going to listen because they were like not expecting to hear her and I think, man, the radical change that was done in her. So people were very much willing to listen because they did not expect to see her in the middle of the marketplace that day.

Mandie:

And it's the exact opposite. I love that you pointed that out, callie. And that's what an encounter with Jesus does is it transforms us into someone who's doing the opposite. That's how you can know. I encountered Jesus.

Mandie:

All of a sudden, I'm doing the opposite of what I was doing before, and that's my prayer for every girl and every woman listening to this is if you have not had that encounter, or if you need a fresh encounter with Jesus that's going to turn you in the opposite direction someplace in your life, that you would have that in the days and the weeks ahead. That you would pursue God for it, ask him for it, ask him for an experience, an encounter with him that turns you in the opposite direction. I'm going to ask him for it in my heart and you guys ask him for it in yours. And also I want to make sure that we point out here you know Jesus was breaking cultural norms. He was saying things to this woman. He was bringing about conviction, not condemnation. But there was something in the spiritual happening.

Mandie:

Jesus was God, and it's so important for us to remember that it's not us when we are sharing with someone, when we're talking with someone, when we're talking with someone, when we're wanting to enter into a hard conversation, or even when we walk in the room going back to Psalm 139, the darkness is as light to him. When we walk into a room, we bring light in there, and it's not me and my physical body, it's me with Jesus in me, and so if I give him my heart and I give him my mind, he gives me words that have his presence and his power on them. They come out as words that bring about conviction in hearts and can be received by the hearer, and so we want to walk away from every conversation changed. So I would just love to hear from you guys what are you taking away from this conversation that you know you need to remember in the days ahead?

Cally:

I think for me, just remembering that he knows everything about me that was, is and is to come and that's one of my favorite parts of Psalm 139 as well is that he knows my days before even one came to pass, and that is such just a peace for me. I find so much comfort in that and knowing that, even though there's so much uncertainty in our world and our economy and everything that he already knows and I can take his hand and I can trust him and it's not some trick, I can rest assured and that for me is just probably one of the biggest securities that this life can possibly offer is knowing that he already holds tomorrow, and he holds today and he held yesterday too.

Lauren:

Yeah, for me it's that we are not going anywhere without him, we're not entering into a darkness or a hard conversation alone, and just letting that spirit guide our conversations, our thoughts, our prayers, our convictions and how we relate to other people.

Mandie:

Yeah, I want to walk away with the fire that the woman at the well had. I remember having that fire in the beginning of my relationship with Jesus and I just feel like there's more there for me in this current season, for me to rejoice in my salvation and to be able to share it and share my story in that way. And I want our listeners to know. We want you to join us for all of these conversations. Again, if you didn't go back to listen to episode one, if you haven't listened to it, go back and listen to it. Stick with us through these next two episodes. Download the Leader Guide for the Brave Conversation tool.

Mandie:

Have a conversation with the women and girls in your life about what we're talking about here and get ready for the Bible study that's coming out September 1st. We want you to print that up. And if you do all of these pieces, including the worship playlist we have a worship playlist on Spotify All of these songs we have curated for you to be able to be reminded in your every day, when you're driving down the road, when you're getting ready in the morning, in the evening, turn it on and be reminded of how God sees you, how God knows you and how God loves you. Callie, this has been so awesome. I'm so glad that you came back to join us for this conversation. Can you tell our listeners where they can find your new book and where they can connect with you?

Cally:

Yeah, I have loved being with you guys. I just love coming here, so thank you so much. You can connect with me. I'm on Instagram at Callie Logan callielogancom. It's Callie, with a C and a Y. I love connecting with people, I love hearing stories and different things, and my books are available everywhere. Books are sold from Barnes, noble, amazon, christian Book or directly from the publisher.

Mandie:

One thing I really love about it is it really is about that person who feels like they're not like everybody else.

Cally:

And, ironically enough, I think in some ways it's written for the woman at the well too, for that outcast woman who is unsure where she fits in and she has some of those insecurities, and it's inviting the Holy Spirit to come and speak in those places and you blooming into the person he made you to be.

Mandie:

Thank you guys so much for joining us for this episode. If it encouraged you, pass it on to somebody else, including the girls in your life, if you didn't know. Be the Brave Ones podcast is a part of Brave Girls Gather. We are a nonprofit ministry and we are able to keep doing what we're doing because of a lot of prayer and generous givers. So if our podcast and our resources bless you, would you consider making a donation at bravegirlsgathercom so you can bea part of helping forward the mission and the vision to see the next generation live out their faith with courage and resilience. And we hope that you will join us back here next week for episode three in the Seen Known Love series.