Building Trust Through Questions: A Path to Effective Leadership

EPISODE DESCRIPTION – Bob Tiede (pronounced “Tee-Dee”) has been on the staff of Cru (formerly known as Campus Crusade for Christ) for 52 years – serving 8 years in Cru Campus and then 24 years as the CEO of Josh McDowell Ministry – a Division of Cru.  And Now 20 years on the U.S. Leadership Development Team – developing the next generation of leaders for Cru.  Bob’s blog LeadingWithQuestions.com is now in its 11th year and followed by leaders in over 200 countries.  Bob has written 6 very popular books, including “Great Leaders Ask Question – a Fortune 100 List” and “Now That’s a Great Question” and his newest book is the 3rd Edition of “LEADING WITH QUESTIONS” which has been Amazon’s #1 Best Seller in the category of Business communication!  Bob’s mission is to help leaders everywhere multiply their leadership effectiveness X10 by moving from “Let Me Tell You!” to “Let Me Ask You!”  Bob has been married to Sherry for 53 years is the proud Dad of 4 adult children – all married and 8 incredible Grandchildren – all who love to ask their “Papa Bob” questions!

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Bob Tiede: true story, Navy Captain Michael D. Abershoff. When he took over the command of the USS Benfold, Morell on that ship was the lowest of all ships in the US Navy. 

[00:00:10] 18 months later, under his command, morale, retest, it was the highest of all ships in the us. Wow. He literally took morale from worst to first. 

[00:00:20] How did he do that? 

[00:00:21] Zena Dell Lowe: Hello and welcome to the Storytellers Mission with Zena Del Lowe, a podcast for artists and storytellers about changing the world for the better through story.

[00:00:32] So today I have a special guest on the episode with us. His name is Bob Teady and we've been in touch for a long time. We've had this nice little relationship going on and he's actually sent me some of his books that are going to be available for you today for free.

[00:00:49] Some of them. So it's a very exciting day and I just want to introduce Bob Teady, Bob, please welcome and tell us a little bit about yourself. 

[00:00:58] Bob Tiede: Oh, thank you. Well, I'm honored to be here. Zena, I guess in introducing myself I always share that for most, I'd start with a confession for most of my career.

[00:01:08] I was a benevolent dictator and you know, my blog now is leading with questions and but the story and, and I love, I love your podcast. I love the theme of stories. And so kind of my story is, yeah, for most of my career, I was a benevolent dictator. My only paradigm of leadership was that I thought the job of a leader was to tell staff what to do.

[00:01:33] And but I did say benevolent dictator is, you know, if I'd grown, I grew up in a home where I was taught to say, please, and thank you. So if you'd been on my team, I don't think I ever would have said, Zena, go do this. It'd been more like, Hey, Zena, you know, here's what we're working on. It would really be great if you could please do this, but it was still telling.

[00:01:53] And when you did it, I would have said, thank you. But in 2006, I found a new book. I love books. And I found a new book. I actually happen to have the book I bought the first edition of leading with questions by Dr. Michael more court. You can see I well, I devoured it. But as I read this book filled with stories of leaders, literally from around the globe.

[00:02:20] Who were leading with questions and the questions they were using. My only question was why hasn't anyone ever shared this concept of leadership with me before I immediately embraced it. And you know, today I would say that a leader who leads with questions can be up to 10 times more effective than a leader who simply leads by telling.

[00:02:43] But that, that all started when I found that book. You know, fast forward again in big pieces. It was in 2012 that I started a blog called leading with questions. And today the blog, we just celebrated the 12th anniversary is followed by leaders in over 200 nations, which blows me away. I don't know leaders in 200 nations, but they found me.

[00:03:09] And and I'm having the time of my life, my 

[00:03:13] Zena Dell Lowe: interesting thing, because what you're talking about, we're not talking really about storytelling per se today. What we're talking about is the idea that we are leaders in culture, in society, wherever we're placed. And that as leaders there is a better way to engage with people that actually builds relationship That helps inspire people that gives you a position to be able to change lives Which most of us say that we want to do and it just makes us more effective in terms of Both accomplishing our own vision But also then finding people to come alongside of us and help us to accomplish those things.

[00:03:52] Would that be an accurate assessment? 

[00:03:55] Bob Tiede: Absolutely. Absolutely. Xena, a question for you. How have you felt whenever you've had a leader, someone you reported to say, Xena, what do you think we ought to do here? How did that make you feel? 

[00:04:10] Zena Dell Lowe: Panicked? No, I better give the right answer. No, of course it makes you feel respected.

[00:04:17] It makes you feel valuable. It makes you feel like you matter and that you are smart and that your opinions. Have weight and that feels good And then it makes you feel like you would go to the ends of the earth To support someone who saw you that way. 

[00:04:39] Bob Tiede: Yeah You've said it so well, you've said it so well Without that leader saying Xena, I value you I think you have much to contribute just the action of asking and then listening for your input You communicated that.

[00:04:56] And I always say to leaders, if that's how you have felt when you've had leaders that you reported to ask you, how will your staff feel when you ask them? And it's like light bulb, the same. 

[00:05:11] Zena Dell Lowe: Well, it's interesting because one thing that you should know in one of the books that you sent me. And by the way, for those of you that are at home most of the books I have here a stack of little books and all were sent to me as a gift by Bob.

[00:05:26] Now this is the only one apparently that is, that you would have to purchase. But he had, these other ones, He has put into an e book Form and he has generously he's if you look in the notes section There are links to be able to download any of these as ebooks, which I just think is so incredibly generous There's five of them.

[00:05:48] But one of the ones that I read through And that has actually impacted me quite a bit and actually kind of changed even some of my coaching style, believe it or not, was this one wait, was it this one or this one? I think it was this one. Now that's a great question. And I went through this and I started unlaw underlying things.

[00:06:13] And I'm like, you know what, this is helpful with my coaching. This helps me to be a better coach, a better writing coach for my clients. So it's been very helpful. And let me ask you some questions about these questions, right? First of all. This comes from years of experience in the workplace, like an actual you know, most of us artists aren't in these sorts of corporate environments, but that's where you're kind of learning a lot of this stuff.

[00:06:44] So tell us about this journey and then tell us about what sort of a turnaround or what some of the results were and what some of the questions are that you began having You begin asking yourself, but then having your staff ask too for, you know, it just rolls downhill. 

[00:07:03] Bob Tiede: Oh, well, again, Thank you for that wonderful endorsement.

[00:07:07] I appreciate it. Again, you know, as I continue my story, as I read this book, the first edition, I immediately embraced it. It was just like, This just makes sense. And and you know, one of the kind of stories that I tell, I used to illustrate is, you know, I make the statement, a leader leads with questions can be up to 10 times more effective.

[00:07:33] And people naturally ask, well, Bob, explain that. How can that be? And and so Xena right now, you're my audience. So I'm going to ask you a couple of questions. Now, the first question is a silly question. It has an obvious answer, but I'm going somewhere. So just go with me. 

[00:07:50] Zena Dell Lowe: Okay. 

[00:07:50] Bob Tiede: Imagine that you have a team of nine staff.

[00:07:54] So you and nine staff are your team. And all 10 of you are in a big row boat. There's oars for every one of you. Everyone's got an oar in their hands. And as the leader of this group, you want to get that boat across the lake as quick as possible. How many of them do you want to have row with you? 

[00:08:12] Zena Dell Lowe: All of them.

[00:08:13] Okay. 

[00:08:13] Bob Tiede: I told you it was a silly question. 

[00:08:16] Zena Dell Lowe: Of 

[00:08:16] Bob Tiede: course, all of them. But now imagine that same team is gathered around your conference table. Now listen carefully. If you're a leader like I used to be, the benevolent dictator, and on that conference table, there's an opportunity, and you've just shared the opportunity.

[00:08:36] But if you're a leader like I used to be, and you think it's your job to figure out how to take advantage of the opportunity, and then you will tell them what to do. How many mental oars are in the water trying to figure out what to do? Just one. Yeah, only one. Let's say you're a leader who leads with questions. So you share the opportunity and then you look around that conference table and you say, Hey gang, what do you all think we might do here? Now, how many mental oars might be in the water? 

[00:09:13] Zena Dell Lowe: Well, hopefully 10. Yeah. The nine staff.

[00:09:17] Bob Tiede: Exactly. Now, Xena, what's the probability as they begin to share their thoughts and ideas that you might hear an idea better than anything you were thinking? 

[00:09:28] Zena Dell Lowe: Probably pretty good. 

[00:09:29] Bob Tiede: Yeah, not a guarantee, but again, the probability of hearing nine other ideas in addition to yours. And so let's just say seated across the table from you, one of your staff, her name is Sarah, and Sarah shares an idea, and you're thinking to yourself, wow, that's, that's so much better than what I was thinking.

[00:09:51] And so you lean forward and say, Sarah, love your idea. In fact, Sarah, would you lead our team in executing on your idea? How hard will Sarah work? 

[00:10:02] Zena Dell Lowe: Really hard. 

[00:10:03] Bob Tiede: Whose idea is she executing? 

[00:10:06] Zena Dell Lowe: Hers. Yeah. Hers. 

[00:10:08] Bob Tiede: And And again, in that situation, that scenario the team might build on Sarah's idea. Janet may say, and we could also add this, and Tom comes in, and, and suddenly the team has an idea.

[00:10:24] And they now own it. And as a leader, you're sitting there thinking, wow, this has gone well. Wow. Not only have we come up with better ideas, but now the team is so much more motivated than if I said. Here's what I want you all to do, especially if some of them are thinking, well, Xena pays our paychecks, we better do what she wants, but I don't think that's a good idea.

[00:10:54] It doesn't have their whole heart then. So at any rate, that's one of the reasons that I, when I begin to see that scenario of, Wow, yeah asking you're going to hear more ideas And then when you 

[00:11:08] Zena Dell Lowe: and that's that's more just about also just being open Right, like it's about being somebody that doesn't need to be in control That doesn't need to have all the answers that doesn't think that their way is the only way it's about being open to The talent that you've surrounded yourself to I could also see this though Potentially being a manipulative tool if it's wielded poorly You 

[00:11:35] Bob Tiede: Say more about that.

[00:11:36] Zena Dell Lowe: Well, like if you're asking questions, but you're trying to I guess you're using those questions to try to Trap the other person or try to catch them or try to lead them It's not a then then it's not you're not actually asking with an attitude of openness You're asking with an attitude of directing and goading And that could still feel manipulative 

[00:12:04] Bob Tiede: Yeah, not all questions are the same.

[00:12:07] Zena Dell Lowe: There you go. 

[00:12:08] Bob Tiede: Xena, don't you think you ought to really go do this? That's a 

[00:12:11] Zena Dell Lowe: question. 

[00:12:13] Bob Tiede: But it's actually a hidden tell. Right. Xena, don't you think the only smart thing to do would be to do 

[00:12:21] Zena Dell Lowe: And then it becomes manipulative. Yeah. 

[00:12:24] Bob Tiede: And but there, there's a whole nother scenario that could be manipulative, but it could be really good at the same time.

[00:12:32] I'm going to go down another path. There's two decision making processes and I'll call them decision making process A and decision making process B. They actually have the same three steps, but they're just put in a different order. In decision making process A, leader makes the decision. Leaders shares with staff the decision and third step leader asked if there's any questions.

[00:13:01] In the second one, Leader starts with saying, we're thinking about making some changes in this area, any input that you all would have. Then Leader makes a decision. Then Leader announces the decision. Well, what's the difference between the two? It's when does the Leader ask? After the decision is made, now the decision that you, leader that makes decision making process A, makes a decision, shares with the staff, asks if they have any questions, and the leader thinks the questions will be about implementation.

[00:13:41] But instead, what usually happens is they say, well, did you think about, have you considered, and now the leader is between a rock and a hard place, like, no, we didn't. He's thinking inside or she's thinking inside, but I am the leader. And so are they going to cave and say, okay, we'll go rethink this. Or are they going to like, no, we've made the decision.

[00:14:05] Well, I always say you don't have to be between that rock and hard place because the leader who use decision making process be of saying, here, what we're thinking, you know, we're going to make some changes in this area, but what should we be considering their hearing prior to making the decision, all this stuff.

[00:14:24] That in process a, they only heard at the end. And then as they hear all of that, they actually will be able to make a better decision because they've, oh yeah, we do need to consider, hadn't thought about that. Yeah, that has to be addressed. Now I said, there's a good way and a bad way. Something really fascinating to me, Zena is that.

[00:14:46] When staff are asked to give input prior to the decision being made, the general rule is that most staff will actually support a final decision opposite of their input because they felt valued in being asked prior to the decision. 

[00:15:03] Zena Dell Lowe: Hmm. That's interesting. 

[00:15:06] Bob Tiede: But at the same time, if a leader in a manipulative way said, I already know what I'm going to do, but I'm going to ask the staff anyhow, so that I can get all that buy in and good feeling, but I'm still going to do what I want to do.

[00:15:19] In other words, I'm going to ignore that. But, but I know that if I ask up front, I'll get better support. There'd be an example of, I think staff would see through that at some point. But kind of the same process could be used manipulative. Or it can be used in a genuine way where you really benefit from their input 

[00:15:41] Zena Dell Lowe: And that's really the key and by the way, I I kind of see this as even translating to different areas I mean you're using it in a corporate setting but I think that this is a a tool that Really is helpful in terms of home life Like with families, you know, especially as kids get older and if, if mothers and fathers were sitting down with their kids and saying, okay, here's something that's coming up, a big life change, a big thing.

[00:16:08] Something and we want, here's what we're thinking, but we want to get your input. What do you think? And then the family discusses these things together and figures out, yeah, well what are the pros? What are the cons? It's a way to sort of change the leadership even within the home. Not change the leadership, but the leadership dynamic.

[00:16:28] Bob Tiede: Yes. Leading with questions works everywhere. 

[00:16:33] Zena Dell Lowe: It works everywhere. 

[00:16:34] Bob Tiede: It works eveRywhere. another, here, here's like, I have a PowerPoint slide when I speak and I say, which of these two statements is true? If you meet a new person and you do 80 percent of the talking, they most likely will leave that Conversation, not really trusting you or B you meet a new person, you ask them questions and they do 80 percent of the talking and they most likely will leave that conversation trusting you.

[00:17:08] I say, which of those is true? 

[00:17:11] Zena Dell Lowe: Yeah. Well, the second one, the second one, I mean, they'll answer is actually more when they do 80 percent of the talking, 

[00:17:18] Bob Tiede: but the answer is both. Because the first question was if you do 80 percent of the talking, they'll mistrust you and you can think so often again in any situation.

[00:17:30] Wow, how could they trust me? They know very little. If I ask questions and they give all the answers, how could they trust me? But the fact is we love to be listened to. And so when somebody listens to us, we begin, again, it's not a conscious calculation, but at a feeling level, it's like, man, I trust I trust Xena.

[00:17:51] She, yeah, she's a great conversationalist. And you're thinking, yeah, but you did all the talking, but it's an interesting dynamic. 

[00:18:00] Zena Dell Lowe: You know, what's interesting about that is so in hollywood and i'm sure this is true by the way This is true for all writers all artists. We all have to go to these events where we're networking where we're meeting new people Yeah, and one of the things I get uncomfortable with that I get uncomfortable because I for one I never want anyone to think that i'm Like if i'm going to a networking event where there's people in positions of power over me I never want them to feel like i'm trying to schmooze them or i'm it's gross, you know, and so I Don't do that.

[00:18:35] I'm not very good at it. I don't want to do that I don't like that But there's also this part where you're supposed to just meet fellow artists and sometimes that's awkward too And one of the tactics i've used for years Is that instead of it being about me? You I just use it as an opportunity to get to know somebody else and I start asking questions.

[00:18:56] And there, I don't ask the heavy questions like, so what's your biggest trauma? Yeah. You know, that would be a really intrusive question, but I'll ask people. You know, Hey, what, what do you write? What, what sorts of things are you interested in? What's your favorite show on television right now? Oh, what did you think of this one then?

[00:19:17] Oh, yeah. You know, and, and now all of a sudden we're having a conversation and we're building a relationship. 

[00:19:24] Bob Tiede: Absolutely. And it's great Zena in that same situation. I mean, I, I meet, I'm sure you meet too, a lot of people who avoid those kinda situations because here's their thought. I don't know what to say.

[00:19:43] If I met so and so, I wouldn't know what to say to him or her. And so I'm not going to put myself in that situation. And the paradigm that, that I try to help people with is it's not about what you're going to say. It's like you Zaina, you've just shared there, you've got three, four questions to start with.

[00:20:07] And so when you walk up to that new person and you start, it's not like, Hey, what I, here's what I'm going to have to say. Here's the speech I've prepared. So there'll be impressed with me, but rather, you know, you start and say, hi, and, and ask that first question. And recently I came across, this was a new thought for me.

[00:20:28] I loved it. You know, a lot of times we start with maybe the obvious question. Zena, where'd you grow up? Well, that has a one word answer. Zena, where did you grow up? I'm asking. 

[00:20:41] Zena Dell Lowe: Okay. Well, I was born and raised in, in Montana, Billings, Montana. 

[00:20:46] Bob Tiede: Okay, now when I read this, here was the next question. In other words, that first question we use a lot.

[00:20:53] There's nothing wrong with it, but Zaina, how did growing up in Billings, Montana, how has that shaped who you are today? 

[00:21:02] Zena Dell Lowe: Right. That's a great. And so, so what you're doing is you're using like maybe something that might be called a cliche question or small talk question, but then you're using that to open the door to a deeper question that allows for more engagement, more.

[00:21:19] Depth of conversation. And so then I might share something like, well, you know, I think growing up in a small town made me focus on relationships and there was a lot of faith in my town and I was surrounded by God's beauty. And all of those things sort of influenced my imagination. Cause I spent a lot of time in the great outdoors or whatever.

[00:21:40] And then you would use that to be able to keep the conversation going by asking follow up questions. 

[00:21:48] Bob Tiede: Exactly, exactly. The new thought to me was some of those cliche questions that again aren't wrong, we start with, but you can then ask the second question that comes across very naturally. And and, and is a question that they haven't.

[00:22:07] Perhaps thought through or answered. I, I seek never to ask a gotcha question, a question that would cause any embarrassment, but I'm, but I also seek to ask what I call platinum questions. 

[00:22:21] Zena Dell Lowe: Now 

[00:22:21] Bob Tiede: I've defined platinum. Somebody else may have a different definition, but just where I'm going with that is that when we're asked a platinum question, it allows us to think and put some things together in our brain that we've never thought about before, but it's kind of fun to do so.

[00:22:42] And so when I say, you know, Zena, how did growing up in Billings, Montana, shape who you are today, if you've never thought through that, It's kind of like, it was kind of fun to think about and and you ended up actually learning something about yourself. And yet at the same time, it wasn't a question designed to embarrass or put you, you know, make you look dumb or anything like that.

[00:23:10] Don't ever ask that kind of question. 

[00:23:12] Zena Dell Lowe: Right. But it makes you go, Hmm, how did it shape? Yeah. And now I get to discover something along with you, which also prevents it from being wrote. 

[00:23:22] Bob Tiede: Yes. Yes. 

[00:23:25] Zena Dell Lowe: And all of a sudden I'm enjoying the conversation more because you're not asking me to repeat just boring, small talk that every what's your major.

[00:23:35] Yes. 

[00:23:36] Bob Tiede: Yes. 

[00:23:37] Zena Dell Lowe: Those types of things. Oh, I like that. That's really good, Bob. That's really good. So what are some platinum questions? Give me some examples of platinum questions. 

[00:23:50] Bob Tiede: I'll share my my favorites. One of my favorite questions is to ask Hey, I'd love to hear your story. And the reason I like that question is, you know, I would say some of the, the, the rote questions we tend to ask is, Hey, tell me about your family.

[00:24:08] If you've got a family and if everything's happy, that's a great question. But if you're in the process of a separation, you have a child who's you know, on drugs it, it becomes an awkward question to navigate. And when you don't know somebody, I don't want to ask a question that potentially feels like I'm prying or, or asking him to reveal tough stuff going on.

[00:24:34] Cause that wouldn't be your heart. When I say, Oh, tell me about your work. Well, it's great if you're employed and love what you're doing, but if you were just laid off last week, now I'm asking, A question that is going to be a little awkward to answer. But if I say, tell me your story, you can go wherever you want with it.

[00:24:55] The negative things going on, you don't have to go there. 

[00:24:58] Zena Dell Lowe: And I love that. You actually said the first time you said, you know, Hey, I'd love to hear your story. So that's actually an invitation. It is a question, even though it's a statement, I'd love to hear your story. You're implying the question. Tell me, you know, Tell me your story.

[00:25:15] Bob Tiede: But I like that it's more gentle. Sure. And then, here's another platinum question. It's a bit like, tell me your story, but I, but I, Again, this next question, not original with me. I'll introduce it in this way. Cheryl Batchelder, who was for many years the CEO of Popeye's Chicken, wrote a book called Dare to Serve, in which she shared how she used servant leadership, the principles of servant leadership, to turn Popeye's around.

[00:25:44] When she became the CEO, shares were trading at 10 a share. When she left, they were at 60 a share. And but in this book, she asked this question, how well do you know your staff? Do you know the three or four events that have most shaped who they are today? Now, Xena, whenever I read or hear a great question, I can hardly wait to find somebody to ask.

[00:26:08] I had just read that. And 15 minutes later, I was on a coaching call with one of my colleagues in Canada. His name is Neil. I, I Neil and I've been friends since 2000. And I thought I knew Neil's whole story, but I said, Neil, I've just read this great question. I'd love to ask it. He said, Bob, you know, I love great questions.

[00:26:32] What's the question, Neil? What would you say are the three to four events that most shaped your life? And Neil paused for a second, said, well, Bob, have I ever shared with you that my birth father died when I was nine months old? I said, no, Neil, you've never shared that with me before. He said, well, Bob, I think I'll share it with you.

[00:26:55] But that was the first event that marked my life. And I said, well, how so? He said, well, Bob, I have no memory of the man. He said, my mother remarried. And the man who's really my stepfather is the man who in my heart is my dad, because he's the only dad I've ever, you know, experienced. But he said, the story has been shared with me so many times.

[00:27:16] That in well, my birth father knew he was dying. And in the last weeks before he passed, he was in a big bed at home. And every day I'm told he would ask to hold me. And as he would hold me, he was pray over me and asked that God, the heavenly father would be a father to his little boy. That he knew he would not live to raise.

[00:27:38] Well, as Neil shared that he began to have tears, his tears, we were on zoom, his tears called me to have tears and Xena, a relationship that was already good and just a few minutes went deeper. And I must say that all the times I've asked this question, that was the most emotional response I ever received.

[00:28:00] But every single time it's fascinating to hear as people think now, you know, Tomorrow they may say, Oh, I forgot. Here's another event. This is not a test for perfection, but it's always fascinating. And again, when I speak, I share what I just shared. And then I ask everybody in the audience to stand up, find another person they don't know.

[00:28:25] And I give them eight minutes, four minutes each to answer that question. And they're sharing with somebody they don't know the answer to that. And when that eight minutes is up. Get everybody back. I said, would it surprise you if I had another question? Of course, it doesn't surprise them. I say, how many of you here would say you now know more about this person?

[00:28:49] You just had this eight minute conversation with, then some friends that you've known for 20 years, every hand goes up. I say, you know, those friends, you've known for 20 years, how could you find out what are the three to four events to most shape their lives? light bulb, of course, just ask. But most people have never been asked that question.

[00:29:12] So again, as they think through what, what are the events that have shaped my life? It's it's a platinum question, and that they enjoy thinking through that. And when they're done, they're think, wow, that was fascinating. I don't think I've ever thought through that before. 

[00:29:28] Zena Dell Lowe: That's, that's fantastic. It's interesting because I've taken it upon myself to, whenever I have friends come over, I always ask one of two questions.

[00:29:41] And this has only been in like the last year, but one of the things I'll ask people is, what would you say the three biggest lessons you've learned in life are? And the other question that I've been asking is. What do you no longer tolerate in relationships that you used to tolerate?

[00:30:06] And I find it 

[00:30:07] Bob Tiede: fantastic. 

[00:30:08] Zena Dell Lowe: Aren't those good questions? And they just generate so much discussion because then people think through it and they're like, well, you know, like what are some people will be like, well, what do you mean the three biggest lessons? And I said, well, like the three biggest aha moments you've ever had, things that you've learned that you're like, wow, man, this is really.

[00:30:28] Huge and it impacts you going forward and sometimes people are like, well, what do you mean that I won't tolerate anymore? Well, like how have you grown so that there's maybe certain things that you were willing to accept before that you realize you can't accept anymore. And what are those? And then it allows for deeper conversation.

[00:30:48] So it's been an interesting thing. I've really enjoyed that. And I feel like I've only been using that really for, I have this personality where I can't be superficial. Like I just don't know how to do it. And it's very annoying to some people because it can often feel intrusive. So I have to learn to how do I do this in a way that doesn't feel intrusive, that feels relational and inviting and exciting to engage in those conversations.

[00:31:20] Bob Tiede: Jose, you've just added to my collection of platinum questions. Oh, 

[00:31:24] Zena Dell Lowe: good. . That's great. 

[00:31:27] Bob Tiede: Here's another group of questions that I find fascinating. And so, again, one of the things I love about leading with questions is so many of the best questions are so simple.

[00:31:38] And there's a story, true story, Navy Captain Michael D. Abershoff. When he took over the command of the USS Benfold, one of our nation's most modern warships, I, I don't know how the Navy measures more morale on a ship, but Morell on that ship was the lowest of all ships in the US Navy. I think we have some 300 vessels.

[00:32:00] 18 months later, under his command, morale, retest, it was the highest of all ships in the us. Wow. He literally took morale from worst to first. 

[00:32:10] Zena Dell Lowe: Wow. That's impressive. 

[00:32:11] Bob Tiede: How did he do that? 

[00:32:13] Zena Dell Lowe: I bet he asked questions. 

[00:32:15] Bob Tiede: Well, the first thing he did, he got on that ship and he scheduled 300 15 minute meetings with 300 sailors on that ship.

[00:32:26] And he asked them three questions and you know, at the end of the first day he might have only had 10 or 15 of these 15 minute meetings. But there was a buzz on the ship. The new captain's different. And but the three questions he asked Xena, you'll have these memorized upon just hearing them one time.

[00:32:47] They're so simple. He asked the sailors, what do you like best about this ship? Second question, what do you like least? Third, what would you change if you could? Now, he didn't promise to make every change that every sailor suggested, but he asked each sailor those three questions. What do you like best?

[00:33:05] What do you like least? What would you change if you could? Now, it doesn't take long, and as captain, he's hearing things and thinking, What? What do you mean that's not being done on this ship? We're going to fix that. 

[00:33:17] Zena Dell Lowe: Hmm. 

[00:33:19] Bob Tiede: So, 

[00:33:19] Zena Dell Lowe: so you're saying, This guy was able to take the, the, the lowest morale and turn it around by asking just these three questions.

[00:33:31] Bob Tiede: Xena, that was the start. That was the start. 

[00:33:34] Zena Dell Lowe: That's incredible. 

[00:33:37] Bob Tiede: Next step though, as he began to hear things, like say he didn't promise to make every changes, but there was a lot of things he thought, we're going to change that. Now this won't surprise you, but I'll ask you, when he called all the sailors together and announced a chain, guess who he gave credit to for the idea?

[00:33:56] Zena Dell Lowe: don't know. 

[00:33:58] Bob Tiede: The sailor who had suggested it. 

[00:34:00] Zena Dell Lowe: He actually gave credit where credit was due. 

[00:34:03] Bob Tiede: Yeah, even if it was like, well, of course we're going to fix that. We have fixed that on all my ships before. We're not going to tolerate that. But instead of saying, okay, I, the captain, will make this change. He named a sailor.

[00:34:19] Hey, thank you. We're going to implement your idea. Well, and what that 

[00:34:24] Zena Dell Lowe: does then is it gets people excited to share their ideas. 

[00:34:28] Bob Tiede: Yeah. That sailor, let's say he was a short sailor at that moment. He fell 10 feet tall. 

[00:34:38] Zena Dell Lowe: That's right. That's all. 

[00:34:40] Bob Tiede: And and, and, you know, that created the spirit of, of his command of.

[00:34:47] Asking, implementing, but giving credit for who the idea, even if it was like, of course, I've done that before, but rather than claiming it, his decision, he, he understood, you know, increased morale. If I give credit to the sailor who suggested that idea and all the other benefits. 

[00:35:08] Zena Dell Lowe: Right. It's interesting. You talk about that because here you have the great Leaders ask questions book that you sent me and I I read through this and I I actually took notes like you have a bunch Of questions in here and this is one of the the free ebooks that you're offering for people They download it at the link below But this was so valuable like just it gives you an idea of Of what questions to ask so that you can help sort of keep the conversation going and actually but for not just to keep the conversation going for conversation sake, but so that you can solve problems so that you can get to the root of the problem and inspire the people.

[00:35:52] That's part of what the goal here is. It's to inspire people to join you in solving these problems, right? 

[00:36:00] Bob Tiede: Oh, yeah, Xena, you know, I got the book right here. And you know, it's a fortune 100 list of questions, great questions. And in one section in your book, page five. But would you like to know the four questions one consultant uses to make a handsome six figure income.

[00:36:21] And this consultant, he did happen to be a man, but he shared with me that, that Bob, I only really asked four questions and, and I make this handsome six figure income. And he said, I'm not a subject matter expert. They don't bring me in because I have expertise in a certain area. He said on day one, I could consult with the CEO of an airline company, day two, the head of a pharmaceutical company, day three, the head of a computer or software company.

[00:36:49] He said, I'd use the same four questions. He said, Bob, might you be curious to know what the four questions are? I said, yes. In fact, can I write them down? He said, I'd be disappointed if you didn't. I pulled out a pen and he said, here you go. What's going well is number one. Number two, what's not number three, where are you stuck?

[00:37:11] Number four, what needs to change? And then Zena, he said, now, Bob, don't miss question one. He said, when I'm consulting with a brand new client, if I started with question two, what's not going well, in other words, it's eight in the morning, we're just starting Xena. Tell me what's not going well. He said, I would not get an honest answer.

[00:37:36] He said, no one at 8 00 AM wants to kind of get naked and confess. Yeah, we're a bunch of losers here. He said, you're not going to get the truth. So he said, I never start there. I start with Xena, tell me what's going well. Now he has a whole bunch of what else's and how'd you figure that out? And wow, that's brilliant.

[00:37:55] He said, by the time we're done with question one, they're thinking that I'm thinking they're one of the most brilliant leaders I've ever spent time with. He said, now that sets the stage for question two. What's not going well. He said, now I get the truthful answer because they're not feeling like they're confessing.

[00:38:14] Yeah. We're a bunch of losers. It's kind of like, Hey, in spite of all the victories, home runs all the good things. Yeah. We do have a few issues and they actually share. They're 

[00:38:24] Zena Dell Lowe: not, they're not just trying to be self protective. 

[00:38:28] Bob Tiede: Right. 

[00:38:29] Zena Dell Lowe: Because they know their value, that you see all the good stuff they're doing, so it's safe now to share all the problems.

[00:38:37] Bob Tiede: Exactly. And then he said, Bob, no question three and four, who actually solves their problem for them? I said, I guess they do. He said, it's really interesting. Exactly. They do. And at the end of the day, they call me a brilliant consultant and write me that big check and thank me for my time. And 

[00:38:58] Zena Dell Lowe: you know, 

[00:38:59] Bob Tiede: I've always shared that these four questions though, will work anywhere.

[00:39:03] Let's just say that you're invited to be a new board member. It's your first meeting. And at some point they said, well, Xena, you have any questions? You say, well, gosh, I'm honored to be here, but I have a couple of questions that would just help me kind of have context of, of, you know, where we're going, but what would you all say, you know, this organization or whatever that committee is, what's been going well, And you let them share that.

[00:39:30] Wow. Hey, that's great. And you can applaud, you know, the rest of the team who's been there, the board members who've been there longer. Wow, that's been, how'd you all figure that out? That, that was so wise, leading to question two, what's not going well. And again, you're going to hear, wow, where do you think we're stuck there?

[00:39:52] What needs to change? And with those four questions, I can almost guarantee that at the end of that meeting, now they may not verbalize it, but I won't be surprised if they do. If they went, oh, Zena, we're so glad you're on the board, but even if it's not verbalized, they're walking away thinking, wow, that was a good choice that we invited Zena to the board.

[00:40:15] Her questions were really helpful today. And all the 

[00:40:20] Zena Dell Lowe: questions do is. Allow for vision to come out, allow for clarity to come out. That's interesting. I'm wondering even if writers could ask that about their own work or they can ask you about their own project or whatever the case may be. 

[00:40:34] Bob Tiede: Yes. Yes. Yes. 

[00:40:37] Zena Dell Lowe: That's amazing.

[00:40:38] Yeah, I was going to say one thing I was going to say real quick and, and we'll, we'll close down here in a second, but you are a Christian as am I, and one of the things that you talk about here, one of your books is like 339 questions that Jesus asked, and there's some really fun things uh, 260 questions that Paul, the apostle of Christ asked.

[00:41:02] I mean, these are really interesting questions. 

[00:41:04] xena since I sent you that set of books. We released a new book We've updated 339 questions to 340 Wow. And but we also added 12 chapters from contributors around the world, giving input to help us understand even better the questions Jesus asked.

[00:41:26] Bob Tiede: Now, people have said, Bob, where'd you come up with the 340th question? Well, somebody reading the book you have sent me an email and said, why haven't you included the question Jesus asked Paul in the book of Acts? Why are you persecuting me? And I said, because I never thought about looking at the book of Acts.

[00:41:47] So that's the 340th question. But you know, one of the things that is illustrated in here is Jesus obviously wanted to see people changed, but something he obviously instinctively knew, is that if he wanted to see somebody change, asking them a question that allowed them to come up with the answer to his question had a greater probability of changing them than if he said, let me tell you.

[00:42:21] and, you know, as I share, even in secular audiences, Wouldn't we all do well to learn from the communication practices of the person I believe to be the greatest leader ever, but even if you just want to say one of the greatest leaders, I always say, after all, he did start a movement 2000 years ago that's still signing up recruits today, but his communications with stories.

[00:42:48] and questions. And so often today, we find Christians preaching and telling where he shared stories and ask questions. 

[00:43:03] Zena Dell Lowe: And 

[00:43:03] Bob Tiede: I really believe in asking questions. His questions showed respect built relationship, created a conversation, but as they answered, Their answers caused this much greater likelihood that they would embrace their answer because it was like, this is what I thought.

[00:43:26] In other words, their answer they owned because it was their answer. And yet his question had prompted them to think about something in a way they'd never thought about it before. 

[00:43:36] Zena Dell Lowe: I love that. And here's, here's something I'll just add to that. I think there are a lot of Christians out there who don't trust other people, and so they feel like they have to spoon feed them in their work.

[00:43:49] They have to have a message driven thing. They can't just leave open ended questions because they might not find the truth. But that shows a profound distrust of other people. It shows distrust. profound elitist attitude, an us versus them, a, a one up situation. I'm smarter. I know the answer. I have to lead them rather than seeing the value and, and actually believing.

[00:44:19] That there is inherent worth in the human being and that asking questions is a legitimate way for them to come up with the answers that the Holy Spirit can do the work. And so a lot of times in the work of Christians, that's what's missing. It's because of this fear of asking questions of leaving things open ended and letting the person grapple with it.

[00:44:41] They think they have to spoon feed and close the chapter and have it be a done deal rather than trusting the Holy Spirit. that the question process is what opens us up to seeking truth. So I love that. 

[00:44:55] Bob Tiede: There had to be a reason that he asked 340 questions. That's that's how many recorded as I share about this book It's compiled by Bob, 

[00:45:05] Zena Dell Lowe: right?

[00:45:06] Bob Tiede: It was written by Matthew Mark Luke and John They're the ones who recorded the questions Jesus asked and in the NIV when you add them all up to 340 But this again is a free ebook if you go to leading with questions calm At the top, you'll see the word books. If you click on that, you'll have access to this and all of the rest of the free eBooks and delighted to have people take advantage of that.

[00:45:32] Zena Dell Lowe: Bob, thank you so much for being on the show today for talking about these wonderful leading with questions. I find it fascinating. I loved the stuff that you sent me. Thank you for your generosity and sharing with this audience and with me personally, this idea. It's just wonderful. Just wonderful. 

[00:45:52] Bob Tiede: Well, Zaina, you are a great host.

[00:45:53] You've asked great questions and I've enjoyed this thoroughly. It's been an honor to be your guest today. 

[00:46:00] Zena Dell Lowe: Thank you, Bob. All right. So for the audience out there, just go ahead and click in the link below. You're going to find links to Bob's Leading with Questions website, which will lead you to the free downloads.

[00:46:12] Take advantage of that. What a generous offer. And we're just really grateful. For someone like Bob, who's willing to share his lifetime of expertise with this audience. Thanks for being here. . 

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