Liquid Wisdom Podcast
A podcast to help add value to everyday life through stories of hope and inspiring conversations.
Liquid Wisdom Podcast
Session 61: From Stigma to Support: A Journey of Change and Advocacy with Dr. Ashley Perkins
"True strength lies not in fitting into the mold, but in breaking it—embracing who you are and using your voice to uplift others."
Hello dreamers! It has been a long while! So glad to be back with you! I explain my absence in the session, so dont worry okay?
What happens when a highly accomplished pharmacist faces mental health discrimination while trying to make a difference? Join us for a powerful conversation with Dr. Ashley Perkins, who reveals her inspiring journey from earning a Doctorate of Pharmacy at Butler University to navigating various roles in community pharmacies and eventually transitioning to teaching. Ashley bravely opens up about the hurdles she faced while volunteering with a youth organization, and how taking breaks and practicing self-care became essential in her life. Her story is not just about personal resilience but also underscores the crucial need for understanding and support in professional settings.
Ever faced discrimination in your workplace and wondered if speaking out could really make a difference? Dr. Perkins shares compelling anecdotes that highlight the emotional toll of discrimination, especially for those with disabilities or disorders. With a keen focus on autism advocacy, we discuss the importance of representing and overcoming stigmas, and how lived experiences can serve as a catalyst for change. Learn the importance of having a strong support system, like therapists and psychiatrists, and how standing up for what’s right, even when it’s hard, can pave the way for better treatment and greater accountability in professional environments.
Do you ever wonder how educators are adapting to meet the unique needs of students with autism or ADHD? Dr. Perkins gives us a fascinating look into evolving teaching methods in public schools, emphasizing trust-building and the Socratic method. The episode also explores the necessity of setting personal boundaries, managing social energy, and the powerful impact of noise-canceling headphones for people with sensory processing challenges. This conversation with Dr. Perkins is sure to leave us inspired to embrace our own paths of resilience and growth.
Until next time, dreamers!
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Do you want to stay up to date with Dr. Perkins? Check out her social media links below!
Twitter (X): https://x.com/becauseimatter
NPO: https://www.wemattertoo.org/
I have included some links to my social media accounts in case you would like to stay in touch between conversations.
Twitter: https://twitter.com/FormlessLiquid
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCis7I2z-T93uHAlJ5DDTzJw?app=desktop
Instagram:
Merch: https://www.redbubble.com/people/ProfessorLiquid/shop
hello, hello. If you're hearing this, this is not a drill. This is not a drill, this is the real thing. So again, forgive me if I'm a little rusty at doing this, but welcome back to all of you lovely people.
Speaker 1:If you're hearing this, it is I, professor Liquid, and welcome back to another exciting, very long overdue conversation, or conversation on the Liquid Wisdom Podcast where we have incredible stories shared by incredible people and, of course, for all of you who've been wondering where I've been in these last however many months, I've been plugging away at grad school and it is taking up a lot of my time, but I haven't forgotten about you, so that's why I wanted to make sure I make sure I came back with a, with a bang, with pizzazz you can't see my hands moving but I wanted to do all of that for you guys. And, of course, you know we always have incredible people come on who are so willing and so gracious to share their stories and have great conversation, and today's guest is all of that and more so. She goes by Ashley Perkins, pharmd, phd, co-founder of we Matter Too, inc. Tedx speaker and award-winning mental health advocate An all around awesome person. Once you get to know her, please welcome Dr Ashley Perkins. How are you?
Speaker 2:I'm great. How are you?
Speaker 1:I'm doing pretty good. I'm doing pretty good, so glad to have you on. I've been wanting to do this with you for a long time and I know it was either my schedule or other scheduling conflicts and stuff, so I'm happy that you know it happens at the right time. I always feel like when, when people are able to come on, it happens at the time it's supposed to, so I'm happy that it's happening right now absolutely.
Speaker 2:I was completely honored that you asked me to be on, so I'm so glad to be sitting down having this conversation with you yeah, I feel it's been a long time coming.
Speaker 1:You know, again, you know, dr a and I were speaking before we started the conversation, y'all and I was telling her. I was like man, it's, it's, it was. It's been a long time coming. I was really excited because, again, I know that we've always had pleasant conversations behind the scenes, away from the eyes of social media and stuff like that, and it's always been a great conversation. So I know this time with school just starting back, for a lot of you around the country here in America is a busy time for parents and educators and I know you're trying to juggle schedules and stuff. So, again, this is so awesome. So thank you for being here.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's totally awesome. So thank you for being here, absolutely yeah. So, for all of those who are listening, I hope you guys have yourself a nice, lovely beverage or maybe something sweet to eat, or comfortable couch or chair, wherever you're sitting or enjoying this, and let's just have an incredible conversation. So, dr A, for those out there who don't know who you are, just tell us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 2:Sure, so I graduated in 2008 from Butler University with my doctorate of pharmacy. Nice Went straight from school into practice. I started working for CBS as a pharmacist. I worked on and off for them for about 10 years as a pharmacist. I worked on and off for them for about 10 years. As a pharmacist, I worked with independent pharmacies. I also worked with a grocery store chain at one point as well.
Speaker 2:My husband works for the railroad, so we get moved around a lot. So, myself being a community pharmacist, it was easier for moving because CVS is everywhere, so it made it a little easier on me. So when we moved from Maryland to West Virginia, that's when I was like I'm burnt out, I need to do something different, and I started looking for something different, and that's when I started teaching. I fell in love with teaching students. I taught at Marshall University for a few years and then, when we moved to Florida, I started teaching pharmacy technician students at our community college and I absolutely loved it.
Speaker 2:In the process of all of this, I volunteered for a youth organization for quite a few years and I was the leadership seminar chair in 2019 and I was discriminated against for my mental health. One of the board members took it upon himself to question my ability to lead the group because I had decided to take like a week off because I was just starting ADHD medication for the first time and that was a bit of a roller coaster and I needed to take just a week off just to one show all of the volunteers that worked with me that it is okay to take a break. Um, well, we need that break. Um, I tell them all the time like, if you're struggling, take time off. Uh, make sure you're taking care of yourself. Yeah, but I really wanted to model that because, as a leader, I feel like I should not only be leading them but also modeling the type of leadership qualities you want in other people. So I thought the best way to do it was to model for them taking time off and it being okay.
Speaker 2:Well, one of the board members got ahold of my email and called the board president and was like you know, should we be worried about this? Blah, blah, blah. And it was brought to my attention and I was like well, first of all, it's nobody's business I can choose to share, but nobody needs to know what's going on. If I feel like they need to know more about what's going on, I will tell you if it's necessary. And then the board president told me that he couldn't stop her from questioning me during the board meeting. And I'm like, actually that's your job as the board president. To tell this person is inappropriate, but wasn't willing to do that. So during that board meeting that night I had to act like nothing was wrong, even though I was like popping mad.
Speaker 2:Uh, because I knew it was wrong yeah, I knew it was wrong, uh, but for some reason everybody else thought it was okay. Um, so after that I found out she'd done it to somebody else in the past, so I felt the need to make sure I reported it because I'm like this is clearly a behavior, this is a you know, something that they're continuing repetitive behavior.
Speaker 2:And if I don't say something, I'm complicit in the behavior. So I need to say something. So I reported it. It did not go well. I pushed harder, reported it. It did not go well. I pushed harder and, long story short, it was like eight months of sheer terror, and you know the gaslighting, the emotional abuse, the all of this stuff. I got the retribution. Finally, the board said I either resign or they're going to vote me out. I left. So after I left, though, I realized if this is happening to me, a person full of privilege, it happens way too frequently, and more than I realize as somebody who it just happened to. So I knew I had to do something, and I chose to use my platform. As a pharmacist, as somebody who is a leader, who has been a leader in an organization, I felt I needed to do something. So that's when my friend John and I started we Matter Too. It was literally the last we filled out the paperwork, the last week before the world exploded in 2020.
Speaker 1:It's so long ago, but it seems like it just happened, right, yeah, wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah continue.
Speaker 2:And so we filled out the paperwork right then and we were hitting it right when people really needed it. And, you know, I have a lot of people reaching out to me to ask me you know how do I navigate this? These are feelings I've never had before and I realized we just don't talk about these things enough. And we need to be talking about these things and we need to be, you know, we need to be open and sharing, if we can, somebody who has been in front of people enough that it doesn't bother me to share. And that's where I went on the, you know, the brigade of. We've got to change this. This isn't okay.
Speaker 2:It happens too frequently, and I never wanted people to go through the same situation. I went through without someone there to support them. You know, I had my partner, who is very supportive, but he didn't know how to navigate this either, because neither one of us had been in this situation before. So I really wanted people to know that there is somebody in your corner. Um, and I will. I will be there every step of the way if you need somebody to support you, because I don't want people going through it alone. It's already bad enough to go through it, to have somebody there to help you like, hey, make sure you're keeping a paper trail, make sure you're doing these things, things you wouldn't necessarily think about on your own, and especially when you're in survival mode you don't think about those things every time. So having another person there that can kind of help you through the process is really why I wanted to do it, because I couldn't let other people go through this situation without at least somebody to talk to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's. I mean thank you for sharing all that. I mean it's, it's can be, it can be pretty debilitating, right To go into go into an environment where you're expected to perform or uphold whatever duties you have. And then some people think, well, this kind of stuff doesn't happen at the top. Well, yeah, the further up you go, the more susceptible you are to that kind of experience, because the power differential right and so a lot of people that tend to look at folks who navigate, having disorders or, you know, disabilities.
Speaker 1:What have you? And they think, oh well, then maybe they're not capable, or maybe they're less than and to have that sort of stigma against you. When you're walking, you're waking up like everyone else, trying to make a difference.
Speaker 2:You know it's heartbreaking that you went through that and it's also, at the same time, very encouraging that, despite that, you chose to take that experience and provide a platform for other, for other people to stand on and feel supported yeah, I, the therapist I had when I was going through that I mean both her and my psychiatrist like I would not have gotten through it without both of them because they were my rocks as I was trying to get through this.
Speaker 2:And that's what my therapist said to me, like as I was coming out of the situation and I was starting that process of healing, and she was like not everyone can take a situation like this and use it as fuel for something else. And I'm like, if I'm going to go through a situation like this, as horrible as it was, in order for me to heal, I got to find a way to make it into something or use it as an example for other people. So they are aware, you know, yeah, it's illegal to discriminate against somebody, but that doesn't mean people aren't doing it all the time, yeah, exactly and getting away with it, because people don't hold these people accountable.
Speaker 2:And you know, and like you were saying, like being up at the top and going through a situation like this, like I, I knew the CEO of the organization.
Speaker 2:Like I, because I had been with the organization for so long and I had held the positions I had held, I knew, like all the people, and so it didn't even protect me and I think that's, I think that's why I also hurt as much as it did, because I expected them to do the right thing, because I had been with the organization for an extended period of time, I had held those positions, I trusted them to do the right thing. And when you watch all these people that you're supposed to trust do these things to you, I mean I have massive trust issues now because it's just like all these people were supposedly friends too, and then they just all, like, chose to do the convenient thing instead of doing the right thing. And I told them all, like I told them, this is wrong. Um, but I was just kind of you know, you need to be quiet, you need to fall in line, and and I'm like no, no, no, no, we're talking about yeah yeah, we're.
Speaker 2:When we're talking about human beings and the way we treat each other. No, like I can't sit down and just be quiet and that's really like the stepping stone for me to like I just don don't stay quiet anymore, like if I see something going wrong, I'm going to say something and I don't really care who it is. Like, you know, I will go up against whomever I need to go up against, because it's wrong. It's wrong and you know we need to be treating people better. And we're in the situation I feel in this country because we just choose not to say things, because it makes us uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:So I've gotten very good at being uncomfortable because I make other people uncomfortable on a regular basis yeah, and from what I've, my time and you know, getting to know you over the last, that's a couple years now. Right, my time getting over the last couple years has been based on now, of course, your actions. Those are the things that you want people to remember you by what, you, what you chose to do and, of course, what you said.
Speaker 1:But from what I've seen and maybe, maybe I'm wrong, wrong ash, but from what I've seen is your presence. You know, like this, this, you being around is like oh my god, you gotta not do this because you know ashley's gonna hold us accountable. She may, she may use her platform to to put us on blast, or she, she'll get in contact with the proper people to try and get restorative justice done for those affected, uh, or use her resources to help those who are affected by the situation. So I've seen you do a lot of those things, consistently and genuinely. So, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's. I mean, and maybe it's I, I didn't know. I was autistic when I went through that situation. I've been diagnosed since. I went 38 years without it and they say we're stubborn. And I agree, like I am very stubborn. And do I get stubborn on some of the wrong things? I'm sure I do, but when I know that it's wrong I just can't, I cannot sit there and keep my mouth shut. When I know things are wrong, I try, but it doesn't last very long. And I'm usually like voicing those concerns because we can do better for each other and it is. It's possible to do.
Speaker 2:But you have to get outside of thinking about yourself and thinking about other people in order for you to realize that people are just trying to do their best and it's easy to judge. And we judge because we're human. I mean, judging people is a human thing. But you don't always have to act on those judgments. You can choose to set the judgment aside and then get to know the person, meet them where they're at and just get to know the person. In that moment and it's ever since I started doing that I'm a lighter person, like I don't, I'm not carrying around so much, because I'm just truly more willing to get to know the human being. Now I still don't like being around people, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 1:Like if I go to the grocery store.
Speaker 2:I want the grocery store to myself. I don't want people. No, like I don't want to be around people. I love helping people and I love standing up for people, but I don't want to be sharing an elevator with people gotcha no thanks yeah, um, that's the sensory thing, but yeah, I get it because, like you know, because you walk like a grocery store, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't know because some grocery stores are louder than others. So I'm you don't have to reveal like where you go shop and stuff, but I do know that some like, let's say, like a, uh, walmart, walmart, okay, yeah, so walmart is, you can be loud depending on what day you go, what time of day you go, right, and then sometimes you go during a certain time of day and there's people just in the aisles not moving, and then it's like I need to get to the pickles and you're standing right in the middle like why aren't you moving?
Speaker 1:so yeah, so that that can be. That can be very exhausting and nauseating, like, oh, I just want to get in and get out. I don't want to spend 20 minutes of my 45 minute trip just standing here waiting for something.
Speaker 2:Yeah so I've never been the type to just go into a store and mill around like I know what I need I'm gonna go in. I'm gonna get what I need and I want to get out yeah. I don't know how people just mill around stores. I'm like no, nope, nope, nope.
Speaker 1:It's fine. Actually, actually there was a. There was a piece that you shared that was very thought provoking, when you said that you were, you know, went and found that you were diagnosed with autism. Right, and just, I feel like, just overall, from what you've been sharing since we started our conversation, there's been this idea of stigma versus, you know, taking the time to learn about a person. Right, so you are someone that just recently found out. You know for a little while now that you are someone with autism. However, you also have a PhD, because there's this stigma that when someone has autism, that apparently they're not as capable or sometimes it affects their intelligence. But again, even if it's a disorder that some people aren't familiar with, it affects people differently.
Speaker 1:So, what has it been for you to have the platform that you have? And then, of course, you're navigating these mental disorders and you're breaking the mold in terms of what people perceive as a person with such things, versus what you present when you do the things that you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know I've met a lot of young people too, because I teach high. I teach in high school, so right, um, when these young people see that there is somebody with adhd and autism, I deal with, you know, anxiety too because of all those years of undiagnosed autism and they see that representation. It means so much to them because they're like I can do this too, because the misperception a lot of times is that autism means we can't, we're not intelligent or we're not.
Speaker 1:we can't learn Right.
Speaker 2:And it's not. It's all about like the social stuff and like the misinterpretation of certain things. And for me, I process a lot slower than others. So, like I, if I'm given the time to process, I'll catch up. But asking me to do it in the moment, more times than not, I can't, because because I'm like I need time to think about it first.
Speaker 2:Um, and, and this in this day and age when everybody's like quick, quick, quick, fast, fast, fast, I just I can't, like I'll blank slate. It's like I've never had an experience before in my life and I just literally blank slate. And I'm like you know, I know I have experiences to share with you, but I literally can't think of any right now, so you're just gonna have to let me get back to you, um, and so I don't know what I would have done, necessarily, with that information in my earlier years right um, because, well, I just didn't know but it makes sense to me on why I struggled more at learning certain things over my classmates, like I would sit there and be like this comes so easy for most of you.
Speaker 2:Like I don't get it, like why do I have to work so hard? Right, and it makes sense now when I did the very first um the self. There's a few online that you can do where they're like just screening tests to let you know if you could possibly be autistic, and I mean I was right up there with all the other autistic adults and, um, but it really like just reading the questions it was a big light bulb moment for me. It was like my whole life was explained in these questionnaires and I was like, oh, that's why I do that or that's why I can't do that.
Speaker 2:And also watching my son. We're very much alike. Him and I are pretty much the same person. He's just pint-sized form and he is watching him and how he asks questions and wants to clarify and how sometimes he misses things. That's where I really started to pick up on a lot of it, because I was like, well, I do that too and that's a very autistic thing to do so. Maybe that's a possibility. So I'm glad I went through the process as somebody who's in the medical profession. Going through the process for myself was something I needed for myself, but for anybody listening, self-diagnosis or self-ID is 100% valid. It is so hard to get in to get an assessment done. It's also, especially in the UF, costs a lot of money sometimes to get those things.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think with the tools that are available now, you can get a pretty good idea of if you're in that spectrum. So that, yeah, so that you at least can start to navigate your life differently from the things that you're learning from the process, if you cannot get that official diagnosis because it's just not obtainable for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the resources for mental health. You know assessment, diagnoses, even treatment. You know therapy treatment. You know therapy. Yeah, I don't have exact numbers in front of me but I know we spend a good penny. But it was a comparison to the amount of money we spend in military defense, cancer research, that sort of police, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So there's a lot of different things, so we're not not spending enough in terms of just providing the breaking ground for, for resources and such um. I was curious. I was curious, actually, and feel free to answer or not. But once you went through, of course you know, with the self-diagnoses, right, and you, and you found that okay, that's starting to make sense. Okay, Now that tracks why you know I do X, Y, Z. And then, of course, when you went through the process of getting the you know the diagnoses by a licensed clinician or wherever you went, Tell me about that process. Was that liberating, Knowing that? Because, again, because there's a stigma that a lot of folks with autism struggle with. They think that something's wrong with them, like they're defective or that sort of thing. And then, once you found out, like no, you're just as capable, just as smart as your contemporaries. You just have to navigate life in a very unique way to arrive at the destination, the same way your peers do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's really how I see it.
Speaker 2:I just see it as I and the way I explain accommodations is we're starting two miles behind the starting line, right, yeah, everybody else is up at the starting line. We're two miles back and we have that two miles to make up before we're up miles back and we have that two miles to make up before we're, you know, up with everybody else. But like accommodations, knowing just the knowledge of I'm autistic, right, like that brings me closer to the starting line because I now can navigate or, you know, accommodate myself in certain ways, that gets me up to everybody else. And this is why I'm just a big advocate for accommodations for all people, because everyone can benefit from accommodations, but they're really helping those who need them get up with everybody else, and so that we can give everybody the same playing field, just and it's not to get anybody ahead, they're not ahead, they're already behind. So like it's just getting everybody up to speed, and in my classroom and in my curriculum I have built all of the accommodations into it so everybody benefits from it, wow.
Speaker 1:I was going to ask you about that too. That's so awesome. I'm sorry, continue.
Speaker 2:I've worked extremely hard at making sure that everything is done so that everybody gets it. So, like my quizzes, I give quizzes every two weeks. I don't do a midterm and a final, because that's like anxiety riding as it is.
Speaker 1:Oh goodness, gracious Heck yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So what I did is, instead of a midterm, I give a 20 question quiz every two weeks I don't do pop quizzes, I don't do any of that stuff and then they all get an hour. So you have a full hour to take a 20 question quiz. I don't ever take it away. You can use as much of it or as little of it as you want, and if you get done in 15 minutes, you got 45 minutes to sit and chill because I'm not going to take it away. They get. I give them four to five hours on their final. Um. It's 150 questions, but I give them plenty of time and they can take as much time as they want. Um, my syllabi, I've made it so that because, let's be real, we don't all read them they're boring.
Speaker 1:There's lots of words in them.
Speaker 2:Okay, I look at boring documents like that and I instantly get bored I hear you it's a little tedious.
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna lie, I'm in grad school. Okay, let me just find out what the assignments are and when dates are. I'll just I'll take it piece by piece, but yes, and it is so it's a lot, so what I?
Speaker 2:do in the in the front is there's a table of contents, but then the next page is a small summary of each section and then what page they can go to. That way they know where the information is and if they want to read more they can go find that part of the syllabi as I read it. So those are just a couple examples of the things I let them choose. If they take an electronic test or if they take a, I print it out and they do it on paper. They get to make that choice as a class. If one person wants to choose to take an electronic one, I don't care. It's literally a copy paste into whatever and I can give it to them. That way. Accommodations are truly about the students and it's what they need, not me. I find a way to accommodate it.
Speaker 1:I think that's wonderful and thank you. The thing is, I feel like educators.
Speaker 1:it's not an easy career track to go into, but it's also, in my opinion, it's one of the. It's adjacent to the healing professions. You know, like, of course, if you've been pharmaceuticals and you know therapy, you know doctors, nurses, that sort of stuff. Educators are right there, on that fringe line, in my opinion, between um, healing professions and just important professions, because, again, you're cultivating. You know differently of course, but you're cultivating in a different way, like you're helping shape the mind of the next generation and you know it's, it's very interesting.
Speaker 1:Growing up, you know, going in the public school system, those it used to be this at one point, this kind of universal way of just teaching every student and oh, yeah, well, that that kid, he or she, you know they, they don't get it, you know.
Speaker 1:But then if you sit down with that child and you find out what's going on, like, oh well, oh, I didn't know, well, this is like early 2000s.
Speaker 1:So like, well, didn't know you were dealing with autism, I know you're dealing with depression, it could be many different things contributing to the student's ability to, you know, pay attention in class or to understand the concept of what they're learning, and so the fact that you, that's a lot of work actually to have a classroom full of kids who all have unique needs and different strengths and places they can improve, and then to accommodate that across the boards where everyone feels comfortable, going at their own pace. Because that's what it's about, especially for children, you know, who have, you know, autism or ADHD. It's like, okay, you don't want to overwhelm yourself, you'll get. There's not, you don't have to be perfect at it. Get to a place of comfort for yourself and once you get comfortable, I assure you everything else is just going to come so much more easy yep, yep, and you know, and I always tell them I'm like I don't know what you need.
Speaker 2:You have to tell me and so and that's hard for a lot of students because of that power differential and I totally get that and I tell them the very first time, like we're talking about stuff, I'm like I know I have to earn your trust and I get that and that is perfectly fine. I will do what I can to earn your trust so that you can come to me and talk to me. You know I can tell you all of these things, of all the things I've done in the past, but it doesn't mean much to you because you've not seen it. So I will prove to you, like I have proved to other people, that you can come to me and I will help you.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to do it for you.
Speaker 2:Like you're going to come and ask me a question. I'm going to look at you and be like okay, what do you think? The socratic way of okay, right because I'm not just gonna tell you the answer, because we're not testing to know if I know it, I know it. We're testing and learning. Actually, they still do that they still.
Speaker 1:They're still trying to be slick as a teacher absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:So we? I look at that, like, hey, you tell me how you'd start and then we'll talk it through. Or I'm like, okay, let's see what if we can find the answer, and we go to the book and we find the answer together, because I'm not teaching them anything by just telling them the answer. I mean, we all know, I know the answers, I'm the teacher.
Speaker 1:Right right, right right.
Speaker 2:And I've been doing it for a long time. So, like we wanna make sure you're learning it, and they always just kind of look at me and they'll be like I know you're gonna ask me what I think and this is what I think, and I'm like, well, hey, then I don't have to ask. You already know what I'm going to ask.
Speaker 2:So let's just skip it. But you know, I truly enjoy my students. High schoolers are hilarious. I would never want to go back to high school, but, yeah, but. And high school is very different than when we were in school.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going to say, yeah, I'm class of 07. So, yeah, that was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I graduated in 02 from high school. Oh cool.
Speaker 1:Okay, right around that same time, then Okay, cool Old old.
Speaker 2:When I told them it was 22 years ago that I graduated from high school, all their eyes like bugged out and I'm like, I'm like I know, I know, um, but they are um, but they, they keep me on my toes and they teach me just as much as I teach them every year and that's what I enjoy the most about teaching is that the stuff I learn from them, um, because they are I.
Speaker 2:You don't have to learn from people who are just like you. You can learn from all different types of people, and that's another reason why we matter too. It's all about the peer support and the lived experience, because not everybody's going to be a medical professional, but they have experiences that they can share, and those are just as valuable to help other people understand what they're going through. They can share, and those are just as valuable to help other people understand what they're going through. Um, and anybody can help another person just by, you know, being a good support, listening and sharing um, commiserating together, um, because all of that means something to people. Um, and I think that's what is the most important is that you can learn something from everybody If you take the time.
Speaker 1:No, no, you're absolutely right. Knowledge can come from many different places. And I think when you are, I guess, it's more of a. It takes a while to get that wired, you know. But once you get into a place where you say I'm always learning, I never want to limit myself on what I can learn. I don't want to always be the smartest person in the room, limit myself on what I can learn, I don't want to always be the smartest person in the room, so you're going to.
Speaker 1:I think it creates this sort of natural ability to just, you know, be a sponge and absorb as much as you can, cause I don't want to know everything, I want to learn as much as I can. And you know, it's like, hey, I'm gonna go to. And then, of course, it's always fun when I can go and say, hey, I want to learn how to do pottery, so I'm going to go speak to a potter and learn how to make pottery or whatever it is. And so, because everything matters, this is a wonderful thing. Thank you, ashley.
Speaker 1:So everything matters in the grand scheme of things, right? So I'm actually, I'm actually really I wanted to talk about a little bit more, right? So you're, you're, you're in po. Um, you know, we matter too. I'm I'm really impressed with what you guys have done, you know, and since, since its inception, I've been, I've been watching, I've been observing and stuff right. Um, so I just want to ask, like, what was, like the, the pivotal moment that led you to creating those things? Was it the story? Was it from that story when you was dealing with the?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, so I actually, about a month before I officially left the organization, I was so angry like raging mad and I needed to get like it out. And that's when I started writing my book, because I was like, you know, I need to get this out and I think the only way to do it is to write it all down, and so I started with that one first. Um, because when I write, I don't write.
Speaker 2:I don't write in order, I jump all over creation like it's a journey I don't have yeah, I don't have like when, pete, when I try to explain to people how I write, they're all like huh and I'm, it all works out, you just have to trust the process.
Speaker 2:But I wrote that first and it had to go through. I had to edit it hardcore because it was, it was angry, and but I titled the book. I matter too, because when I went through that situation, I felt like, even though these people had known me for so long and they knew all of these accomplishments, I had all these things I had done like it. In an instant, all of these labels became what mattered more than myself and all of the things that I had showed them over the years. With one moment the mental health issues, the ADHD, whatever it was that was taking the precedent and I was like confused. I was like I've had these things forever. Nothing has changed about me, but why is this now the focus?
Speaker 2:And so I matter too. We too. It's all about us, the human being that actually really truly matters. We all have all these things. Who's you know whether they're good, whether they're bad, and I have plenty of both. And those things, yes, they're part of me, but I choose. What defines the person that I am, and that's why I matter too. And then the we matter too when, when we started the organization, because we want people to feel the same way. We want them to feel like they are the person that matters, not all the other stuff that might be there yeah, no, it's, it's great to, it's great with, with what you're doing.
Speaker 1:You know, because, again, there's a lot of people I mean they can be, these could be strangers you see, on this on the street park or you know grocery store, or whatever it could be these are, there's a lot of individuals out there. You don't know their story because, again, it's not like we pass on our foreheads or it's on some sort of jumbo trying to above us. However, there's a lot of folks who we pass by every day and never know what sort of internal struggles that they're having, the those feelings and thoughts of thinking that it must be true, since no one cares, I'm not worth anything, no one dares ask how I'm doing, or no one knows the sort of pain I'm going through. So, seeing you know your, your organization and then, of course, you, you know folks. Whether I want to talk to you about in a minute, you know your book, it's it can.
Speaker 1:It's almost like breaking the chains that can bind you to a place where you can just keep pulling you back back into the, your darkness, into your pain, and say, wait, I'm not by myself. There's other people like me that have gone through similar experiences. I'll be from different walks of life, of course, and maybe even culture or location, but my experience isn't just me going through this, other people too. And hey, this person you know using you, for example wow, she's gone through a lot of this stuff too, and look at all the work she's put in to navigate it and to transform it. You know that post-traumaticatic growth, as a lot of people allude to, where you took a very painful situation and you chose to because you could have gone another way. You could have gone a different path again you were angry you know, naturally right, that's normal to feel that way.
Speaker 1:However, you could have chosen to keep going further, beyond that anger, and do some other stuff too. However, you chose to after the subsided, you chose to transform all of that and you created this. That is a very beautiful thing to see.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you. It takes and there's still, like I'm still grieving that past me because I mean she wasn't a healthy person. Let's just be honest. I mean I do miss working 80 hours a week, you know and being able to. Well, because I worked a 40 hour job plus the 40 hours a week of volunteering. So, like you know how I every day, I don't know, but I can't, I can't do it now, Burt myself out very largely, oh yeah self out very largely.
Speaker 2:But you know I don't want to be that person anymore because I know what that person didn't know and also went through and I prefer this person because I'm a recovering people pleaser and I used to let people walk all over me and now boundaries are very much a big thing in my life. That came out of this and a lot of people don't like it, but I just don't care because that's a good point right, what is it?
Speaker 1:Oh man, because I just want a real quick interjection. So the thing is, I want to let everyone know out there listening Boundaries are natural and inherent for every human being that walks this planet. You are natural and inherent for every human being that walks this planet. You're not supposed it's okay to tell someone no, it's okay to say hey, I can't do this right now and you can prioritize and make time for the things that you can. And most of the time when people get upset with you having a boundary, typically it means that they don't have a healthy idea of what boundaries are and they don't have a healthy level of respect boundaries are and they don't have a healthy level of respect for you, because the rational person would say oh okay, that's fine, we can reconvene at a later time, totally okay, yeah people call me out all the time and that's fine because that's what I want them to do.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I'm violating your boundary. If you don't tell me and what? If I do it again, then that's on me. But the reactions I get to people when I impose, when I say this is my boundary and I'm not willing to you know, change right yeah they get real nasty and I'm like, okay, that's fine, like I don't think you're somebody that needs to be in my life.
Speaker 2:Um, I've almost quit my job because I want to be able to advocate for myself in the way I feel is necessary and I've had that, you know. And I'm like, well, I can quit. If we can't come up with a compromise, I can quit.
Speaker 2:And luckily, because my boss is fabulous, we came up with a compromise that worked for both of us good, um, where I could still have very firm boundary, but I was also not stepping over a boundary she didn't she had. So you know it's. It's all about that, like figuring out those ways to to keep your boundaries intact without compromising yourself right and not feeling guilty for also having them.
Speaker 2:Um, that's hard for me because I feel guilty, because I feel like I should be doing all the things for all the people at all times. Um, even my, my partner would be like you literally will do anything for anyone to your own detriment. Um, and that's how I used to be. I'm not that anymore because I can't. I can't do that anymore, but, um, it's definitely a process learning how to keep boundaries in place but worth it for sure.
Speaker 1:Absolutely yeah, especially when you mentioned that the piece you mentioned about being a recovering people pleaser yeah, those are the ones that the piece you mentioned about being a recovering people pleaser yeah, those are the ones that I've observed in my time being out in the field. In the short time I have been out, there are the ones that you know it's really hard because that has been predominantly the system they have lived under for so long and learn. The difference between this is your trauma responding to the situation, not your feelings. Your feeling says, hey, you are tired, you don't want to do this right now, that's fine. Your trauma is saying, but if I say no, then that must mean therefore I'm a bad person.
Speaker 1:So we have to make get into the middle and there and get there's this process where you feel this, therefore, think this. You have to unwound that and create a brand new one to where you say saying no is naturally okay. I shouldn't. I don't have to feel bad for prioritizing my well-being over something that could cause me further harm or lead to burnout, which comes to stages you know or you know something else. So, yeah, boundaries is a very beautiful thing to see someone and I'm glad that you have that for yourself too. Learning that you know it's empowering, right. It's like wow, I can say no.
Speaker 1:I can say no.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, it is a fantastic feeling yeah, yeah, and I also saw from your book as well, um, that it's. It's speaking of powerful tools. It is a very, you know, it's a very powerful tool for, you know, self-empowerment, and I know that you mentioned, you know, early about, you know what inspired you to write that book. Uh, so, looking back on it now, like, since you know you've done the, the press runs and you know it's still out there for many people, which I will plug at the end of this, by the way, thank you yes absolutely.
Speaker 1:Uh, what? What do you feel is the most important message you want to give to the reader? You know, once they, you know, want to pick up your book, and they start going on that journey.
Speaker 2:Well, it's not a self-help book?
Speaker 1:No, of course not yeah.
Speaker 2:Like I make that very clear because I don't. I didn't want it to be a self-help book because it's my story, it's what I've gone through the good, the, the bad, the ugly. I don't sugarcoat it because I think too much of the time we do sugarcoat them and when people go through the situations they're like this is really crappy, like this sucks, and I wanted people to see that, yeah, it does, and it needed to be done in the way I did it, which has all the sharp edges and no glitter and all of that stuff. Um, because none of it was enjoyable to go through. Um, but I want people to read it and to see that, a you're not alone and to see that, a you're not alone and b I've gotten through it. I still struggle and it's not perfect, but I did survive it all and it is survivable.
Speaker 2:Um, when you're going through it, you don't feel like there's a light at the end of the tunnel. It is really hard to see yourself outside of it. So when you're in the thick of it all, I think to have just either one or two or something out, one or two people or anything out there to remind you that hey, there's a reason I'm here and I need to try to focus on myself and getting myself through this moment in time, because once I'm outside of it, it'll be okay. It doesn't feel okay and it's okay for it to not feel okay. It doesn't need to be pretty, it doesn't need to be well done, it doesn't need to be pretty, it doesn't need to be well done. And I think that's what I want to show is that my mess it's a mess and there's nothing pretty about it. But once you're outside of it, so many good things can come after it's over. And that's why I just you read so much stuff and it's so sugarcoated and I'm almost like, is this actually what happened? Like, is this the reality? Because I think that you're afraid to tell us what actually happened and that was. I'm not scared to show that I have.
Speaker 2:I've gotten a DUI, I had issues with drinking. I, you know, had to get sober for myself. I've been through back surgery. I've been through my grandfather dying, um when I was in pharmacy school, um for malpractice. So like I've gone through a lot of different things that most people look at me and they're like how are you still here? And sometimes I wonder the same myself.
Speaker 2:But you can. You can do it if you try and you can choose not to try like. I'm not going to judge you for not wanting to try, because there were plenty of times I gave up myself and that's OK to like. You know, we can only be so resilient so much of the time and you can't always feel like fighting.
Speaker 2:And I think people, if you're going to fight, you also need to know that sometimes you've got to give up too, because it's got to be like kind of a balance, even though it doesn't feel like a balance, that picking and choosing of battles, because sometimes you are too exhausted to do anything or to fight, and that is okay. To just stop and just rest and allow yourself to be not okay. And I think a lot of times we're always like it's like that, suck it up and deal and I'm like but I don't want to suck it up and deal, so I'm going to just hide my room for a day. I'll come out in a day. Just give me my 24 hours to be a complete waste of space I think, um, I think it's, I think what you?
Speaker 1:that's a very thoughtful piece there, because I think there is sometimes this idea that you're, you're this machine right and you just have to keep going and keep going and going. However, the machine we have between our ears, right, our brain you know this thing there's a limit to his upper limit, to what it can endure, because there's so much information going through, there's so many memories and feelings that it's processing, so you can redline like you can redline like you can redline and you'll break down quickly, right?
Speaker 1:So so I love the fact that you said like hey, just be strategic in what battles you want to fight. Hey, I don't make. This isn't worth my energy. I don't want to deal with this person doing this on social media or this person saying this across the street. I'm just going to just focus on what I can right now and if it it still bothers me, later on maybe I'll come back to it when I'm already taking care of a few other things, but I'm going to be strategic and pick and choose what battles I want to fight.
Speaker 1:I having those tough days I think I made a post about this the other day. I was like some days are tough, some days you're just not going to be a hundred percent. You know, mentally or emotionally it could be a, it could be something from your past, it could be trauma, it could be something maybe you haven't done inventory to make time for in a long time and your body's reminding you like, hey, there's this thing that we haven't dealt with. Can we spend today processing this? And I love that piece about you're not going to always be so resilient.
Speaker 1:It's a skill and it takes time to do that and so the best way to do that is by having those, like you said, those 24 hours right when he's. Like man, today I just feel like crap. I'm just going to navigate this. I'm not going to run from it, I'm going to navigate through this and whatever it is I'm feeling. I'm just going to let myself sail through those waters and then eventually I'll hit the shore and I'll say, okay, and you're better off for doing that. And again, it's very important, especially for young folks too. Man.
Speaker 2:It's just you teach high school.
Speaker 1:So yeah, this is very important for that age.
Speaker 2:I am frequently reminding them that they aren't supposed to know stuff and that they are supposed to be making mistakes, and that they are supposed to be making mistakes and that they are not going to be perfect and they need to accept it.
Speaker 2:Um, because many of them especially when they're in my class because we're doing pharmacy related we're I'm teaching them about pharmacy as high schoolers, so you know they're all very bright and I have to remind them that this might be the first time. You don't get an A, and it's okay. I'm going to support you. I'm going to be here to help you through it, but this isn't easy. It's not supposed to be easy, and you're not going to be good at it, and that is okay, because I'm here to support you so you can get good at it. Um and so a lot of times I'm having these conversations with them over and over again, because they feel like if they fail a test, then it's the end of the world and I'm like but it's not. They don't put your GPA on your diploma. Your diploma looks the same as the next person's diploma, that's true. So you know. Instead, let's have you learn the material and get to be able to utilize the material, instead of us so focused on our grades.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. I'm only as good as I am because I've failed so many times, that's how you learn.
Speaker 1:Absolutely good, as I am, because I've failed so many times. That's how you learn is success? I've learned in my in my adult life that success is what you success comes from. All the times you had to go back to the drawing board and come back. Oh, this tweaking things is a little bit more after failing, because success is a result of appreciating all the hard work and all your failures. The learning comes from the setbacks and the things that you know you. Oh, I didn't know that, oh, I got that wrong. That's where you learn and it's a trial and error thing, man. That's why I think, for a lot of you know again, for your students too you know idea of learning. Think of it like art. You're it's, you know it's a blank slate and everything, no matter if it's a mistake or you didn't mean to put that here. All that goes into this wonderful mosaic that is your journey of learning.
Speaker 1:And just because you fail a test doesn't mean you are a failure. That those are, those are not the same. There's no correlation between the two. There's a lot of successful people who landed in a good place where they feel comfortable in their life. I'm sure you can speak to this as well Again, what you've accomplished where, yeah, I didn't. I wasn't top of my class. You know, when I graduated, I wasn't always the smartest person. Things happen. I made it through, though you know I've had these setbacks and that's that's really okay, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:So I just wanted to ask you so I know you mentioned earlier was like man I used to do that's a bad to you, sis. That's a long, that's a lot of work, man. Um, so how do you find balance now? Because you know, I know you have like your professional things that you're doing, you know, with the speaking engagements, and I know you're teaching the young ones, but also you know, you know you have a family and you like the idea of having a less hectic schedule now compared to before. You still work a lot, but it's like it's not chaotic as it was before.
Speaker 1:So how do you find, how do you navigate that now, at this stage in your life, trying to make that time to say I matter too Relax?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, you know, I just go day by day, honestly, like I don't plan. I just go day by day, honestly, like I don't plan. Like I plan things out like if I'm gonna go do a social event with, like, my son and my, my partner and we're gonna go like to a sporting event or whatever the case may be, and it's gonna take my social battery, um, I make sure I play. I like store up social capital so that when I go out I don't get too overwhelmed. I don't. I don't go any place last minute anymore.
Speaker 2:So, like if my son and my partner decide that they want to go someplace last minute, I generally don't go, because in the past I would have forced myself to go, gotten overwhelmed halfway through it and then wanted to leave because I'm not having fun, or I'm just no fun and I make everybody else not have fun because I'm not having fun.
Speaker 2:So I just don't do it anymore and we plan ahead. That way I know what's going on, and then I have a list of things I need to get done and I get them done when I get them done, okay, and that is pretty much how I navigate life now, because I used to be that person who had to like plan everything and like have all these to-do lists and all these like things, and I had to get them done in a specific order. And a boss once said to me you don't get extra credit for turning it in early. And and that literally like changed my world because I was like, why am I getting everything done early? Nobody cares? I'm like, why am I, why am I pushing myself so hard to get it done early?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So, I stopped and if I get it done on the day it's due, it's done on the day it's due and that's it like yeah, and so I just I stopped pressuring myself and, to be honest, I actually work less because I do it that way, because I sit down, I get stuff done in that my little hyper focus moment. Right, I get the stuff done that needs to be done right and then I'm done.
Speaker 2:I I don't need to waste time doing anything else. Um, running the non-profit with my friend john. Yes, we are on the same page and we get to run it the way we want to and we choose to do it because we're humans. If somebody needs time, they take time. If we all need to take time, we all need to take time. Things will get done when they are supposed to get done and that's how we do everything, because I refuse to force people to work themselves into the ground. When we're getting, we are. We might be moving slower than other people, but guess what? We're moving in our timeline and that's all that matters.
Speaker 1:Yeah, everyone's timeline is unique. We're all connected, right, but we're all. There's no overlap. Sometimes you cross paths with people and they can go with you for you know, a time being, or they can go with you at a moment you didn't expect it and be and become such a wonderful, you know, blessed experience, you know for them.
Speaker 1:And some, some people come in for a reason. They teach you something like, oh, about yourself or about the world, and you take that experience and if it was a negative one or uncomfortable one, rather, you know you heal from it in your time because, again, like you said, grieving that part of yourself before or in our conversation, you know, grief is some people and and this is, this is the part about grief I want everyone to understand, and maybe you agree with this there's no timetable on it. Whatever it, whatever it is that you have grieved, whether it be the loss of a friend, a relationship, parents, whatever that has left something of a mark on you in terms of the impact that you feel from it you get to a place in your own time where you are able to better manage it. I don't ever think everyone's over it Like, oh, I'm over losing my mom, you know, or I'm over losing my dad, or whatever it is. I'm just in a better, I'm in a place where I can better manage it now.
Speaker 1:And again, sometimes it could be a song, it could be a sense, it could be a food, it could be many things where it's like go back to that moment.
Speaker 2:It was like, wow, yeah it's a part of you, you know and that's okay.
Speaker 1:I remember someone very famous speaking about grief and they spoke about it as it's like wandering through a forest. You know you're wandering through a forest and one day you may stumble out into that clearing and that's where, that's that space where you're able to better manage. You know, you agree, yeah, but the whole time you're still on a journey. So yeah yeah, so yeah, please take the time for yourself y'all. Please do it's, it's very, it's very important. I also know I'm gonna keep this. I'm gonna make sure I take note of this too.
Speaker 1:So if I ever want to go out and socialize with you, I'll make sure I ask you in advance, so that way you can plan for it, because I'm not gonna say I'm not gonna say, hey, ash, I'm in town, let's go out for it, let's go out for drinks and wings or something it's like, uh, no man you know I do a lot less things, but I have to say like I, I am a happier person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, my anxiety used to be so bad. I would deal with anxiety on a daily basis and now that I take care of my sensory needs and I don't like expend social capital when I don't need to, I I deal with anxiety maybe once a week. That's good maybe once a month, like I used. I mean, I have to say, there are literally like weeks that go by and I have none, because I'm navigating the world in a way that is much better for me right and so.
Speaker 2:I mean people people can tell me I'm doing it wrong all they want. I know I feel better, so I really don't care.
Speaker 1:Yeah because it's just a madness, right. Anxiety, that's the thing man. Anxiety man when it, when it gets, it can be crippling man.
Speaker 2:So for you, like what do you feel it physically for you when you do have a moment, my stomach I feel like my stomach's gonna explode, like I feel it in the pit of my stomach and then like it just grows to the point that, like the pressure in my body is so much of my just grows to the point t in my body is so much lik rip my skin off and run commercial during the pan of the pandemic.
Speaker 2:I know w, but at the beginning um w so many feelings she woul the feelings like came fl out yeah that's how I feel. Like I feel like the pressure just builds up and then if I get so bad, like it's a panic attack, like panic attacks will put me down like I can't move, like I get almost catatonic because I get so like overwhelmed with everything, um, but knock on wood, I have. I have not had anything that bad in quite a while.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Yeah it's serious, man, it's a real thing. Y'all Anxiety is real. I know some people can co-opt a term sometimes and then some people will again have that sort of negative sentiment. But remember, it isn't a DHM. For a reason it's a real thing that people go through and I can tell you when you see someone you mentioned panic attacks, man, seeing someone feel like they're being crushed or they're trapped and they don't know what to do, and then they're sweating or they're shaking so violently because their body is in shock from all the signals that their brain is receiving and giving out and even like you mentioned, you know that that sort of catatonia brand just needs to shut down.
Speaker 1:it's like a hard reset, like I can, whatever it is, we just can't do it right now, but we just gotta shut down and my hardware and my software say no more, no more blue screen man, exactly. So we gotta reset the whole computer, man, we have to absolutely so it happens.
Speaker 1:So I love, and I love that you're making time, because you said you know, even if you don't do a lot of stuff, I love the fact that you are in a flow in your life where you love what you do on a majority of the day that you go out and you venture, do the stuff that you do. Has there been anything new that you discovered doing this, like this process of like prioritizing, like what helps mitigate and helps you manage a sensory overload, and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:That is like so I wear I wear over the ear headphones practically everywhere I go. Now, okay, um, I have found that I take so much sensory information in through my hearing because I literally hear everything. I can hear lights, I can hear the ticking, I literally hear everything. I can hear lights, I can hear the ticking of the clock.
Speaker 1:You have a key hearing, okay.
Speaker 2:Oh, I hear it all. I'm usually the one who finds the stuff going wrong in the house because I'm the first one who hears it, because no one else hears it. So now that I am blocking a lot of that input out, I think that has a lot to do with the lowering of my anxiety levels too, because I was just taking in so much of that sensory information and I didn't realize how much it was overwhelming me. And now I just I don't care how goofy I look in my over the ear headphones. I wear them everywhere I go. People ask me all the time why do you wear those? Because everything is loud.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah I'm like everything yeah, imagine again.
Speaker 1:You know, for those who don't know, there's this.
Speaker 1:I forget the name of the video, but there's this video on youtube where it showed what it's like for a person with autism to be in a play, like a mall, right, and so it was a pov and it was from POV of a child and the mother, I guess, was holding his hand and her voice, even though she was in front of him, was sound like it was far away. It was very muted, but the clown running through the merry-go-round going off, the people yelling in the food court, all of this was just overwhelming and it was so loud for the child Because everything is they can't. Their brains don't know how to naturally mute the sound from further away and amplify the sound that's close proximity to them, like a neurotypical person can before personal autism. Everything's happening at once, man. So imagine 30 sounds all the same volume, all happening at once and and it just just knocks you on your keystone, man, you don't know what to do.
Speaker 1:And so late in the video, the mother took the child out and you know, speaking of anxiety, uh, the child was having a panic attack. You know he was breathing rapidly, he was very short breaths and mom had to help him calm down, and then once the child, it was so sweet.
Speaker 1:Once the child calmed down, um, you know, mom, mom hugged him. I was like man that's that's really beautiful Because, again, this is the day in the life of, typically, of someone who has to struggle with that.
Speaker 1:So I love the fact that you can. So is it the kind that cause? I've seen this different ones that work for different people. I know there's like the noise canceling ones people listening to music and then there's um, there's this company that's that used to manufacture the ones that you have at the gun range and they've fashioned it for children with autism and yeah, it's like what's so cool. So, yeah, so they manufactured for that and man, it really it closed out.
Speaker 2:So much sound like I tried them on and I was like wow oh, oh yeah, when I because I these are sony and I, um and when I turn them on I I don't have to listen to music it will noise cancel, like just everything for me, right. And the first time I put them on I looked at my partner. I go is this what it's like for you to not hear everything? And he's like yes, and I'm like, oh, it's so nice, everything's not amplified and like there was. There was. The other day I was in the bathroom of our house and I was closer to the back of the bathroom and the bedroom where the bed was is on the far other wall.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And my phone was sitting there and my phone was still playing a video. I could hear it word for word in the bathroom and it was not that loud, Like I didn't have the volume up to a specific like loud. I could hear word for word in the bathroom and I was sitting there going. Why can I hear this?
Speaker 1:I'm just like it just amazes me the the random things that I can pull out yeah, and the thing is, you know you wish you could turn it off, but you can't, so you know. So it's like it's it's always on, man, and that's the thing you're navigating. What I've learned from sitting with folks who have autism and stuff it's like, yeah, dude, it's always on. So just sitting down, you know. And if they have ADHD as well, it's like, hey, just sitting down and listening to someone takes a lot out of me, you know. But I know people who have ADHD and who are therapists and they do such an amazing job. But I also see that when they come back from making space with so many of that during that day, they need that at least an hour to just decompress and just nothing, just close their eyes and just let their brain just crystallize a lot of things that they've been seeing and feeling.
Speaker 1:So that way, they can be re-censor themselves, essentially because again they push really hard. And yeah, I'm glad that, you know, I'm glad this conversation happened because again it can. It really normalizes and grounds a lot of stuff that people, unfortunately, can tend to become hyperbolic about, you know yeah again. You know, having autism doesn't mean you're just going to be hey, treat this person totally different and then amplify, you know, something that's unique to them. No, they're regular people.
Speaker 1:They're, they could be some awesome people around, they tell jokes, they could be sarcastic. They go after, uh, high-end jobs and get, you know, get degrees and be able to have a life, relationships, you know, romance, all those stuff is still very much possible. It's just a experience tailored to them and everyone is different, you know so absolutely and everyone matters.
Speaker 2:So again, I love see I've got me saying a whole lot more.
Speaker 1:now I've realized I've said it like almost 10 times during our conversation and that's really cool. It's a very beautiful statement to make. So, I thank you so much for taking the time out to be here. It was this was again the perfect time for it to happen. I'm really glad that you that you made the time to come and share your story, and I learned a lot and I'm sure a lot of the listeners did too. This was truly wonderful. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:My pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, as a per tradition, y'all thought I forgot about this. Right, I remember this per tradition, we'd love to leave the door open for you to return if you should ever want to. If you ever want to come back, the door is always open for you hey, anytime oh, we got her, guys, we still got it.
Speaker 1:We got her. She said, yes, cool, we're gonna put this on wax and record this. We're gonna, I'm gonna hold you to it. That is so awesome, hey, yeah, so before before, absolutely so, before you get out of here, um ash, um, please drop any and all relevant social media links, your NPO links. I'll make sure to put all of that in the description of the conversation so that way, people can follow you on your journey and contribute to a lot of the wonderful things that you're doing. You know the altruistic things and, of course, professional stuff too, so I'll let you have this as far as yours this was yours.
Speaker 2:Uh, so you can follow me on twitter, because no one calls it x? Um and my handle is at because I matter and if you, I've recently started this whole tiktok thing. I'm still learning, but if you want to follow me there, it's at because I matter 19. Somebody already had the other one, so at because I matter 19, and that's on TikTok.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'll make sure to get all of that, and please do, guys. It's incredible what Ashley is doing for you know, for a lot of folks who are dealing with autism, adhd and, of course, those who are learning to get into the pharmaceutical industry of medicine. You know, cultivating young minds and, yeah, you can. If she can do it, and she's done so much already in such a short span of time, you can do that and so much more. So, on behalf of the incredible dr ashley perkins, I have been your host, your uh, humble navigator on this river of conversation. Professor Liquid, and for those under the sound of my voice, continue to maximize your potential while finding acceleration in your purpose. You all take care, be well, and I'll see you in the next conversation.