How to start the Journey of Handling Body Dissatisfaction In The Age Of Ozempic

Join us as we delve into the intricacies of body acceptance with psychotherapist Lillian. Together, we explore the challenges of navigating shifting beauty standards and the impact of societal pressures on body image. From the resurgence of the thin ideal to the evolution towards body neutrality, we unravel the complexities of self-love in the face of conflicting desires for weight loss.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hi guys and welcome back to Confessions of a Wannabe it Girl, the podcast to help you filter out the BS and becoming your own it girl. You know I hate to say this, but it is what it is. Body issues unfortunately run deep in the female community as well as, maybe, the wannabe it girl community. There's always been so much pressure to look a certain way, dress a certain way, be skinny, all the things, and in this episode we are addressing how maybe Ozempic has affected a little bit of regression in the body positivity movement. We just really want to dive in to how to get started on dealing with your mentality around your body and get to a place of just appreciation with your body. In this episode I'm joined by Lillian, a psychotherapist in New York, new Jersey and Florida. Let's dive in.

Speaker 1: 0:55

Welcome to Confessions of a Wannabe it Girl. I'm your host, marley Fregging, and I'm here to help you filter out all the bullshit and become the next it girl. This podcast explores the reality of what it really takes to make it out there. As it turns out, it is way less Instagrammable than I thought it was going to be. I'm still very much a work in progress, but there's simply nothing else I'd rather be doing than chasing my dreams. So let's learn from my mistakes and work together to achieve our dreams with more confidence, clarity and direction. Let's get after it. Hi guys, and welcome back to the show. Today I am joined by Lillian, who is a psychotherapist in New York, florida and Jersey. So welcome Lillian to the show.

Speaker 2: 1:37

Thank you, I'm happy to be here.

Speaker 1: 1:40

I'm very happy to have you because I feel like we are diving into something that a lot of people have struggled with. I don't think body, I don't even want to say dysmorphia, because I don't even know if we all really have truly what's considered body dysmorphia, but body issues or dissatisfaction with our own body image is something I think a lot of people can relate to. It's something we really struggle. We're in a weird era with many different elements of body images going on, so I'm excited to have you here today so we can really talk about all the weird elements we got going. Yeah, there's definitely a lot to talk about, so I think we can both get started by like what do you perceive, you know, what have you heard in your group therapy sessions about what the current social standards around body image are?

Speaker 2: 2:32

So I think, now more than ever, there's the most variety in terms of the quote unquote ideal. You know everybody well, a lot of people want to be thinner, but there's different types of thinner. You know what I hear. A lot is like the Kardashian shape, the hourglass figure, but then other people don't necessarily want that and you look back at history and I think there's always a different ideal body type quote-unquote. You know, for each stage. If you think about the 90s, it was like that Kate Moss, skinny, skinny. If you're thinking, yes, the heroine chic, yes, heroine chic, exactly, you know. But if you're thinking about the Italian Renaissance, it's a fuller figured woman with breasts and hips and larger thighs and a little bit of belly. But then, you know, you go to Victorian England. Then it was all about the cinched waist in the corsets that they wore. So I think it changes throughout time. But I think and maybe I'm wrong, but I think now there's the most variety than you know, more than ever, because there is a larger representation being shown.

Speaker 1: 3:35

You know, I would agree with that. I feel like we are seeing the widest range of body types that maybe I've seen in my lifetime, like I I'm I was born in 95. So you know, growing up early, two thousands I still feel like there was such an emphasis on the Victoria's secret angel and then heroin chic and like that was kind of it. There was no other range. There are so many more types, but I unfortunately feel like you feel like every time we make progression there's going to be regression. I feel like on some level and I have thought maybe in the last two to three years ironically, maybe post true COVID lockdown, there's been a little bit of a kickback of the really thin being present, which I'm like weren't we over that? Like haven't we done that? And I don't know. I just think it's very odd how that's kind of coming back around Right.

Speaker 2: 4:36

I think there's definitely some truth to that. I think people talk about how they maybe lost weight during COVID because they had a ton of time to exercise and now they're struggling with maybe gaining some of that weight back. And I think even like in media amongst celebrities, going back to the Kardashians, seeing something about how Kim Kardashian's losing all of this weight to fit into a dress, or Khloe really thinned out and you know, now with Ozempic and other weight loss drugs, I think it's really coming back now.

Speaker 1: 5:06

Yeah, oh, we're definitely going to dive into that and like how Ozempic has really shifted maybe some of the mindsets and the work we had done there at the same time. Maybe it's a good thing. I have no idea. I don't even think I can put my stamp on it either way. I'm kind of just like well it's here. How do you feel like the body positivity arose and how do you think the movement is currently doing?

Speaker 2: 5:34

I actually think great things are happening. Would I say that all of a sudden, nobody cares about what they look like or their body size or any of that? Of course not, but you know, between different size models on runways and even like the dove ads that you see? You know, I think there is more representation, so I think it is doing good things. And you know, what I tell people is you don't always have to be positive about your body. It's more about body neutrality or body appreciation or body acceptance. And you know, I feel that even for myself. I don't always look in the mirror and say I love my body, but I can say I like what it does for me. I can accept it the way that it is right now. I think that's a little bit more realistic.

Speaker 1: 6:16

Tell me those again. What were they?

Speaker 2: 6:18

Body neutrality and body neutrality, body acceptance, body appreciation. So I love that.

Speaker 1: 6:24

I love that Because I do think that we've kind of I call it bumper sticker mentality, that it's like you have to accept your body, no matter what it is. You have to love it. And it's like, well, I, for instance, really like the color of my eyes, but every day I don't wake up and look in the mirror and be like I love my eyes. I'm like they're great. I'm like why must we set the standard of you love your body or you despise your body? I feel like there's so much more in between there.

Speaker 2: 6:52

Right. I always say you don't have to look at the mirror and say I look like a supermodel. That's not going to feel real and it's probably not true. You can say I love the color of my eyes, or I'm having a really good hair day, or you could find something just to make you feel a little bit more comfortable and a little more confident. And part of the body positivity, movement is also appreciation for your body. So I appreciate that my legs can carry me on my run, even if they're not the exact shape and size I want them to be, and just finding something good, not the exact shape and size I want them to be and just finding something good yeah, finding something good in just the, simply what is there?

Speaker 1: 7:38

I do think that these extreme ranges of like I love it we don't even all have time to really process that and I do think when we tell ourselves it's a false reality, it doesn't really actually like sit in the gut and then I feel like over time, if you're very honest with yourself, being like you know I appreciate my healthy body like that will eventually build and build into maybe something a little bit more Like I do really love my body, but it's starting at the basis Right and I think that's absolutely right is that it slowly builds over time and then it starts to really resonate and sink in, as opposed to something that's so outlandish and not true and doesn't feel like something you connect to.

Speaker 2: 8:19

That's not really going to stick.

Speaker 1: 8:21

No, I don't. Yeah, I agree, I don't think it's going to stick. And you know, now we kind of touched on it but we're coming back around to it Like how do you think Ozempic is possibly regressing, some of the progress we've made here, Right?

Speaker 2: 8:39

So I think Ozempic as a weight loss drug is definitely causing us to regress a little bit in terms of body positivity because, first of all, it's bringing up the discussion of weight loss and body. A lot more People are talking about it. Is this one on Ozempic? Is that person on Ozempic? I think people are just being talked about more and for people yeah, I start to assume that when somebody's just lost weight, oh, they must be on Ozempic.

Speaker 2: 9:07

I did that myself. The other day I saw someone who looked half the size and I said, oh, ozempic, you know I didn't tell it to anybody else, but the thought did come up for me and we obviously have made a lot of progress. But I think a weight loss drug just reinforces the message that all people should strive for thinness at any cost, whether it's financial costs, the cost of their physical or mental health. And I think, you know, for people with eating disorders, for example, who are used to maybe going to extreme measures, this is making them feel very triggered and more vulnerable because you know we're all now in pursuit of that smaller body.

Speaker 1: 9:46

Right, well, and I I feel like you know our whole lives. We were told there is no magic drug for losing weight, like you know, even though maybe my parents and maybe your parents' generation grew up more in like the slim fast era- where it was also like these things will make you thin, but who knows what the other bad side effects of that were, so like they were kind of sold a lie.

Speaker 1: 10:14

But then now I feel like we are being sold the truth, like this will actually make you lose weight and our whole lives. We were told this would never exist. There's no quick fix. And now here we are. So how do you handle that, as somebody who has maybe had disordered eating habits or eating disorders, seeing that there is this quick solution now Right.

Speaker 2: 10:43

And I think you have to really be conscious of it, if you know that it's something that you struggle with. You know, even the average person, I think, is struggling with this. I'm hearing very thin women say, oh you know, can I just take it to take off those last 10 pounds that I want to lose? So for people who really are struggling, I think it's very hard and like the important thing is to kind of see it as noise and not something that's necessarily for them, and to be able to just like lower the volume on that noise. You're going to hear all of these things, all of these messages, all of these things telling you that you should be evaluated based on the way that you look, and this is a way to do that. This is a way to look better.

Speaker 1: 11:24

That you look and this is a way to do that, this is a way to look better. Yeah, I have to say that I have definitely felt that. I've also, you know, living in Los Angeles. You know it's the, it's the first place. I feel like it became socially acceptable. It went so quickly from you know oh, you know they're on Ozempic da, da, da, da to like I want to be on Ozempic, like the mind shift, switch so quickly and, you know, I find myself seeing somebody, you know maybe who I saw at a different size, and being like, oh, I'm kind of jealous of them. I have no need to go on Ozempic. And just because they look great and I'm like, oh my God, like I should do it, there's no need. So what are some strategies you would maybe provide for countering that reaction?

Speaker 2: 12:13

I think it's really hard because there's no escaping from it, but you have to kind of bring it back to yourself and just zoom out a little bit. Like maybe what you're seeing right in front of you is somebody who looks great and achieve this easily, and it seems like the magic pill or solution. But if you zoom out a little bit and look at the bigger picture, it might not necessarily be that simple. You know, if they have to take it, they might have to take it the rest of their lives in order to not lose weight, they might be having certain side effects that are uncomfortable. And zooming out might also bring you back to yourself, to your own story and your own journey with this, and the goal is to have a healthy relationship with food in your body, whatever that means. So I think this is not helping you get there. So again, like, turn down the volume on some of that noise, some of those messages that you're hearing.

Speaker 1: 13:00

I love that you said you wanting to have a healthy relationship with your body. I think, because of social media and because of all the diets and the amazing but a million influencers we have out there promoting fitness, what really is a healthy relationship with your body?

Speaker 2: 13:18

It's a tough question, but I think a lot of it is. You know you should ask yourself certain things. How much time do I spend focusing on my body and my body size and looking in the mirror and checking and pinching my skin or my fat? You know, how much time do I spend thinking about food and what I'm going to eat next and what I already ate? And those things are all signs of a poor relationship with food in your body. You want to be able to have a healthy balance where it doesn't take over or interfere with your life in any way. If I have a poor relationship with my body, I might have a bad body image day and not want to go out because of it and again like that's not a good sign. You want to be able to just accept and appreciate and live life despite not always looking perfect.

Speaker 1: 14:05

Once it's affected you from holding yourself back for not a positive reason. Sometimes we do hold ourselves back because we feel danger. But other than feeling danger, I don't think that your body and your feelings about your body is a good enough reason to not go out and let the world see whatever kind of sparkle you have. And when you look back on a moment when you didn't do something because of how you felt, I think that's going to hurt you much more than when you just didn't feel your greatest and you still made it out of the house and you did whatever you need to do.

Speaker 1: 14:49

And I wish that the ideals around what a healthy relationship and a healthy body looked like weren't so murky. I feel as though between the ideas of being super healthy, it's still like a very thin athletic skinny. And then I also feel personally that there's been a great push for, amazingly, maybe, more full body sizes, but I still am like there's kind of something in between that doesn't maybe get the emphasis and I just wonder how we can all just not care. How can we not be stopped by? Oh well, this body's highlighted and this body's highlighted, but my body's not highlighted. How do I not care that? It just is, and it's fine.

Speaker 2: 15:45

How do I not care that that's, it just is and it's fine Because it's. It's just a body at the end of the day and it's just one part of you and one thing in your life, and I think it's a constant struggle. I don't think there's a way to just maybe get to one point where you're love your body, you're happy with your body, you're happy with all of that, and then you move forward. I think it's something that a lot of people deal with for their whole lives and are constantly reminding themselves of just keeping themselves in check and saying how much do I value this, how much does this impact me? And when you gave the example of staying in because they don't like how their body looks, you're right A bigger picture. It's affecting them in the long run, like, okay, maybe they missed out on one fun night, but in the long run it's starting a pattern.

Speaker 1: 16:30

I think that you know it holding us back starts to lead people down the path of oh well, that's body dysmorphia. But I also I kind of feel as though body dysmorphia has kind of maybe by the internet and the Instagram scroll, we've gotten diluted from what the actual term is and what is body dysmorphia. I also think everybody thinks they have body dysmorphia or dysmorphic tendencies. So so can you clear this up for us? What truly is body dysmorphia?

Speaker 2: 17:06

Do people think that they all have it?

Speaker 1: 17:10

I feel like I hear a lot of people say these two keywords Like I have body dysmorphia and I hear people say I've had an eating disorder or disordered eating. Say I've had an eating disorder or disordered eating and you know, being on a diet once, I don't know if it is, but like one time you were really strict, like that's why I feel as though it's confusing.

Speaker 2: 17:39

Oh, interesting, right, I don't hear the body dysmorphia piece as much, but maybe it's LA versus New York.

Speaker 1: 17:44

You know, or I mean also, I will say that I kind of feel there's this you know horrible joke on some level. I don't know where it originated from and you know people will be like I want to be so skinny that people ask me if I'm okay, like that it is highlighted or it's like it's cool, it's in to have people be concerned for your nutrition. I don't, yeah. So what is the experience like in New York then?

Speaker 2: 18:15

Interesting. I have heard people say things like as a compliment of oh you look anorexic. Yeah, it's terrifying because it's a mental illness and it's so much more than just being skinny. But body dysmorphic disorder, for example, is a disorder. It's in the DSM, it's something that you can be diagnosed with and it's body dissatisfaction, but you know, on a clinical level, where it's impairing your life in some way and it's actually connected to obsessive compulsive disorder, in that you're doing these repetitive actions where, like I said before, you're constantly looking in the mirror or pinching yourself or checking yourself, or even the mental act of just comparing yourself to other people over and over and over again, and it's a certain preoccupation on a level that's different than the average person who has a bad body image day.

Speaker 1: 19:07

Right, I think the classic example I think of and you can correct me if this is totally not actually what body dysmorphia is. It's like somebody standing in a mirror and they're looking in a mirror and they see something that's way different than what's truly there. I think everybody has had that moment where you look in a mirror, look at a photo and you see something you're insecure about, and then that's the only thing you see. Would that be considered body dysmorphia?

Speaker 2: 19:38

It might be, but it's. You know, I need to know the bigger picture. That's also what I think of when someone says body dysmorphia. I picture a thin person standing in the mirror and the mirror image that they're looking back at is larger than their actual body.

Speaker 1: 19:51

Right, I think that's a you would need to see. The bigger picture is a very key element here that I think might get overlooked sometime is you know? We've been dealing with these negative feelings or side effects and we are like, oh, I have body dysmorphia, but have you really been in a group or a situation to really nail down what is happening there? Or have you just seen something on TikTok and Instagram and assumed you have it as well?

Speaker 2: 20:21

Right, I hear that a lot like the tick-tock diagnosing yourself with certain things, which is a whole other problem. But again, like bigger picture, how preoccupied are they with it? Are they just looking in the mirror and focusing on a flaw and then kind of leaving it at that, or is it much more than that? Like what?

Speaker 1: 20:40

is the mental piece of this? Yeah, what is the mental piece of this? And when is it time to start kind of like getting help or really dealing with this in private? We can sit here both of us, and I can say I deal with this, I see it super healthily now, and then I'm at home at night by myself. No one's there to judge me except for myself. How do I actually deal with what I'm feeling and not go out in public and say the politically correct thing and whatnot? How do I really really truly be like I'm at peace with this or I'm going to tear myself down, you know, do you?

Speaker 2: 21:26

know what I'm saying. I think it depends on what your goal is. If your goal is to make peace with your body, then it might take work and it might take the help of a therapist or a support group or like-minded people that you surround yourself with. If that's your goal, then that's great and it's something that you should work on. But you know, I see a lot of people who come in for therapy who say that's their goal and it's not. Actually their goal is to lose weight and I think sometimes it takes longer to get there, like sometimes through therapy and the process of talking about it and in the process of how it impacts their life, because you might not even realize it. Like you might say you know who cares that I want to lose weight, who cares that I want to be skinny Everybody does but you don't necessarily realize how much it impacts you and how much it's hurting you. Is it causing anxiety? Is it causing depression? Is it causing disordered eating?

Speaker 1: 22:19

It might be affecting you in more ways than you realize and at that point, in more ways than you realize and at that point you know it might be good to get some help. Yeah, I think that is you know. Another element here is, you know, people can be wanting to lose weight and it not be as extreme as oh, I need to go on a Zempik, oh, I have body dysmorphia, I just want to lose weight. But I feel as though maybe people are a little nervous to just say that now because oh, then you have disordered eating and da-da-da-da. It's like oh no, I just want to be healthy, lighter than I am. How do you keep those two in their healthy places, not in the slippery slope?

Speaker 2: 23:07

you can quickly slide down Right, and I think that does come up a lot. I've seen things about how plus size model, their larger body models, have lost weight for who knows why they just lost weight. And then they get a lot of criticism for being so body positive but also for losing weight, and I think it's maybe a little controversial to say but I think both things can exist at the same time. I can accept my body and still maybe want to lose a little weight at the same time. And again, like not everybody would say that they say you either have to be on one side or the other. If you accept your body, you love your body no matter what, and that's where you are. But I think it also depends on how you're losing the weight and why you're losing the weight, what you're focusing on. I think all of those things matter.

Speaker 1: 23:56

I love that and I don't think that's actually talked about enough, maybe because it is controversial, and I hope that's kind of where we're heading is like. Both can be true. I can love my body, I can be happy with myself at X, y, z size and then still want to change, you know, even just gaining muscle or actually just losing a little bit of weight, and all those things can still be true. Nobody talks about balancing all of those different things at the same time. It does seem very black and white and personally I can't help but blame social media for that, because I feel as though online, what is more interesting to watch? It's more clickbaity, it's more controversial, and that it's been so controversial for so long. We now think that's normal, right, and I'm like, no, that doesn't have to be the case. Multiple things can be true, right? So how would you advise somebody to be on this journey of having, you know, acceptance of their body, appreciation of their body, but also, you know, having realism with just like, maybe I do want to lose or gain weight?

Speaker 2: 25:16

Again like it's not so easy. I wish there was a simple solution. I think it's as cheesy as it is to say a journey and something that takes time and effort to put into, especially if your brain is wired to think one way and now to rewire it to think about something another way. It takes time and energy and effort.

Speaker 2: 25:36

But some of the things that we said, like looking in the mirror and finding something that we like, or looking in the mirror and saying, okay, this is how I look right now and I can accept that, as opposed to just criticism and just negative self talk and just fighting it. You know, you can be at war with your body for the rest of your life and many people are. They're constantly fighting this losing battle where they're trying to change and they're trying to change and even if they do change, they want to change more and really there's no winning. So the only way to win, I think, is acceptance and to see it kind of for what it is and know your triggers, know what impacts you more and be able to again like turn down the volume on some of that noise.

Speaker 1: 26:21

I think you know and with Ozempic it does make it hard to say this, but I'm a huge fan of time, which is we all have nothing but time, and we all have no time because at the same time it's Unfortunately. The one thing that is all true is we're probably all going to end up in the ground or spread along the water. I don't want that to be something that is with us in our entire lives. The only thing you cared about was what my body looked like or what you thought of your own body. We don't want that. Nobody wants that to be.

Speaker 1: 26:56

Here lies Marley. All she thought about was does she have the perfect body? Nobody wants to read that, nobody wants to see that, nobody wants that to be what they were remembered for. So you know what is it going to take for you to be at that place where you're accepting it. And it is a journey and it takes time, effort. And you know, just because you lost all this weight on Ozempic doesn't mean you mentally are appreciative for what just you went through. So it's as much a mental journey of acceptance as it is a physical body journey as well. So what would you say? The first step for somebody who is, you know, feeling a little out of control and this can't even, you know, get orientated in this like element. What would be the first step?

Speaker 2: 27:51

Feeling out of control. In what sense?

Speaker 1: 27:54

Oh, like trying to work on dealing with this issue, like feeling out of control, like what would you say is the first step to starting this journey of acceptance with your body.

Speaker 2: 28:05

Definitely call a therapist, but I think also to pay attention to some of the negative thoughts and see if there's a pattern there. Are you constantly criticizing your legs? Is it something that keeps coming up for you over and over again? And then you know what exactly it is that you have to tackle. You know you might not say, okay, I don't love my body, but you don't really realize what the thoughts are that keep coming up for you over and over again. So maybe even to just write those down every time a negative body image thought comes up, and just to see what you're working with there, I think would probably be the first step.

Speaker 1: 28:39

I love that because what are you telling yourself? Probably be the first step. I love that because what are you telling yourself all the time, every day? And have you seen? There's this video. Actually, another person I interviewed brought it up. It was like two best friends and they wrote down all the things they say negatively about each other and then they have to say it to each other. They're in tears by the end of it and what you're saying to yourself you will innately carry, and that's why I think it is.

Speaker 1: 29:09

I think I'm a huge proponent of any kind of therapy, any kind of coaching situation and you don't have to struggle in silence and we can share. I think also, people have a lot of shame around even saying they struggle with body images, even though I think so many people probably do struggle with body images at one point or another in their life. I have found it really hard. Even I've been with my therapist for seven years and I will still struggle to admit that I think I might have an issue there or whatnot. So coming forth and understanding that you being brave enough to even admit that you think about it is okay too.

Speaker 2: 29:56

Yes, that really is. The biggest first step is to just admit it, or to come to terms with it, that this might be an issue for you. Yeah, and you know that issue will evolve, shift and change as times and as we talked about body image, bodies, standards, what and bodies change Like that's something to accept too is that body change bodies change throughout the lifespan, and if you're expecting to look the same way at 35 as you did at 19, it's not realistic.

Speaker 1: 30:27

Good riddance and good luck, sweetie. Like again, that is not what I want our entire existence to turn into. Well, lillian, you are so wonderful and thank you so much for taking the time to talk about a very kind of hard to touch on topic that I think a lot of us spend some time on. So can you please tell everybody where they can find you and all the good things.

Speaker 2: 30:50

Yeah, for sure. You can find me at nyctherapygroupcom or on Instagram. At nyctherapygroup, I'm taking new patients. I have a group practice and we each focus on different things. And yeah, that's it.

Speaker 1: 31:05

Amazing. Well, thank you so much again. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much for listening to Confessions of a Wannabe it Girl. Don't forget to rate and subscribe to the show. As always, we'll see you next Tuesday. Bye.