#112 - Alfonzo Ianniello, CEO and Managing Director of CODAN on Unveiling the Human and the Visionary Leader Behind the Boardroom

In this enriching episode of the #CreatingSynergyPodcast, join us as we uncover the layers of wisdom and humanity in one of the most esteemed leaders of our time, Alf Ianiello, the visionary CEO of ASX-listed powerhouse, CODAN, and the influential former CEO of the iconic South Australian enterprise, Detmold.

🌟 Episode Highlights:

• Respected Leadership: Why Alf's compassionate leadership and deep family values resonate with so many.
• Origins of Excellence: From Alf's Italian roots and National Soccer League achievements to confronting childhood challenges.
• Pioneering CODAN: Alf's unique leadership approach, goal-setting techniques, and commitment to a thriving culture.
• Braving Economic Tides: Alf's insights on the looming global recession, backed by his experience navigating the 2008 crisis.
• Work-Life Balance: Alf's recipe for balancing career, relationships, and well-being.

Prepare to be inspired and enlightened, as Alf Ianiello bares the heart and mind behind the leader, sharing not just strategies for success, but the essence of a life well-lived. 

🎧 Listen now and immerse yourself in a narrative of leadership, empathy, and strength, and perhaps, find pieces of wisdom to weave into your own story.

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS:

[6:27] - Influence of Parents
[17:59] - Sports and Leadership
[21:34] - Evolving Leadership Style
[31:56] - Joining Detmold
[39:12] - Customer Centricity
[45:57] - Corporate Transitions
[58:16] - Goal Setting Strategies
[1:03:05] - Leadership Philosophy
[1:15:56] - Facing Recession
[1:19:52] - Work-Life Balance

Where to find Alf Ianiello

• LinkedIn

Books Mentioned:

• Range: How Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World By: David Epstein

Join the conversation on Synergy IQ on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram (@synergyiq).

Access SynergyIQ Website to get to know more about us. 

Say hello to our host Daniel Franco on LinkedIn.

Transcript

00:00:04:16 - 00:00:34:26
Daniel Franco
Everyone. And welcome back to a very special episode of the Creating Synergy Podcast. Today, we're deep diving into the life of F Lowe, the CEO of Code N and a former CEO of a great South Australian company that wrote. So what's actually surprised me in this whole process of interviewing F is the amount of people who messaged me saying that they can't wait to listen to this podcast just because of the person that F is his family values, his leadership philosophies, very, very widely loved.

00:00:34:26 - 00:01:01:08
Daniel Franco
And I just wanted to say, firstly, kudos to you. If a job well done. So we start early in life where he believes he's hard working parents and he's Italian background set the foundation for who he is and the leader he is today. He shares some early memories where he was bullied as a child that actually led him to changing schools to his elite soccer prowess where he played for Adelaide City in the National Soccer League.

00:01:01:15 - 00:01:27:08
Daniel Franco
It's through these early experiences and learnings that he believes provided him the context on the leader that he wanted to be today, from the defense industry to the automotive industry all the way through to CEO of debt mode in the manufacturing industry. FS Career paved the way for his role today as CEO of ASX listed company CONAD, where we will explore his leadership philosophy, the culture that he's trying to instill in at Codan.

00:01:27:14 - 00:01:56:18
Daniel Franco
And he provides some of his own strategies and goal setting for staying laser focused on achievement. We also discuss the global hot topic, which is the impending recession and Ashes thoughts and outlooks on this subject, bringing his experiences in leading through economic challenges such as the 2008 financial crisis. So as I mentioned earlier, AFF is so very well known by his peers as a family orientated man, and tonight will explore how he manages work life balance, personal relationships and mental health and wellbeing.

00:01:56:21 - 00:02:11:09
Daniel Franco
So without further ado, here is my conversation with f ing ello CEO of Kodak. So welcome back to the Creating Synergy Podcast. Today we have a very great man f or Alfonzo in Allo. What do you prefer? Alpha f on to.

00:02:11:12 - 00:02:13:22
Alf Ianiello
Stick with F your.

00:02:13:22 - 00:02:15:25
Daniel Franco
LinkedIn says F on that. Yeah.

00:02:15:27 - 00:02:27:06
Alf Ianiello
It depends. I can pick the people that in the time of their life that knew me. Yeah, call me the f0fi Fonzie the. So let's stick with the professional.

00:02:27:06 - 00:02:46:22
Daniel Franco
Then since sounds great. So current CEO of ASX listed company Codan and former CEO of that mold for 14 years. The mold is a huge South Australian business so kudos on your career and obviously there's a lot more and we'll go into that. But thanks for joining us today.

00:02:46:24 - 00:02:48:13
Alf Ianiello
Thanks for having me.

00:02:48:16 - 00:02:55:13
Daniel Franco
So just to kick off, I like to go back and sort of figure out who is F or Alfonzo or Fonzie.

00:02:55:13 - 00:02:56:12
Alf Ianiello
Or.

00:02:56:14 - 00:03:06:08
Daniel Franco
Who the person is, who the human is behind the C. So what do we need to sort of understand about your earliest context to understand the person who's sitting in front of us today?

00:03:06:12 - 00:03:27:29
Alf Ianiello
I think part of the fabric is that my parents came out from Italy, so being a son of migrants that came here with optimism and hard work and that's been part of the fabric for a long time. And then, you know, I really my life, a lot of my friendship group is the same friendship group I had when I was ten.

00:03:28:03 - 00:03:38:14
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, well, yeah. So it's probably, you know, the things that form and sports being a big thing in my entire life. Yeah, yeah. Even up until today of my children.

00:03:38:14 - 00:03:44:05
Daniel Franco
So really, how many kids you go for? Four children. Three boys.

00:03:44:12 - 00:03:45:22
Alf Ianiello
A young girl.

00:03:45:25 - 00:03:57:00
Daniel Franco
Know affects. Perfect. So parents come after Italy. What? What do they do? How did they migrate? What did it look like and how did that influence, you know, the person who you are now?

00:03:57:02 - 00:04:19:27
Alf Ianiello
Well, the parents came out in the sixties, so my dad came out first. My mom came out a year later. So it's just that does general hardships of separation. And then I just worked. So I've got an older sister nine years older, so I was probably more of an economic boost, you know, make sure I paid off the house and had the future planned out ahead.

00:04:19:29 - 00:04:51:10
Alf Ianiello
But all I remember is my parents being highly supportive, being very hard workers and being quite tight with their community. Yeah, we come from a small family of marriage and a lovely Italian girl called Maria and she comes from a large family. Okay, So, you know, that was that was a good thing. But now I just remember my parents just, you know, enjoying the simple things in life, you know, teaching me the benefits of hard work and and education that were pretty hot to trot on the education.

00:04:51:10 - 00:04:52:26
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. Yeah, I can imagine.

00:04:52:26 - 00:04:55:02
Daniel Franco
Yeah. Well, what did they do for a living?

00:04:55:05 - 00:05:13:11
Alf Ianiello
So my dad worked at Holden. Yeah. And then on the weekends he would do roofing. It will still work. So probably make on the way came what he would make six months. Yeah, I did. He worked quite hard. So in doing that and then my mum was a cook so we can cook in pubs and restaurants and stuff like that.

00:05:13:11 - 00:05:14:06
Alf Ianiello
Oh beautiful.

00:05:14:09 - 00:05:17:09
Daniel Franco
That you enjoyed the fruits of that as you were growing up.

00:05:17:09 - 00:05:18:17
Alf Ianiello
Yeah.

00:05:18:19 - 00:05:35:07
Daniel Franco
So what influence, you know, you said they're, they're hard on the education pie. What influence did they have. Like looking back now you go, look, if it wasn't for mum and dad, you know, sort of put me on the straight and narrow, I wouldn't be where I am today. Well, what did that look like?

00:05:35:10 - 00:06:00:06
Alf Ianiello
I think, you know, I referenced hard work, but it's more the sort of stoic nature of things. Things aren't going to be easy. You got to work through them. You know, I get free kicks. You sort of create young free kicks. You know, it was just I saw the simple lessons keep me life. Not not complicated. Yeah, I keep the simple safe, you know?

00:06:00:06 - 00:06:26:24
Alf Ianiello
And don't overextend yourself if you don't have to. A little more than you might live within your means. But I really, you know, I felt if I look back, it's really they just they're always highly, highly supportive to get better. Right. So they lay some pretty good foundations, but it's just their ability to, you know, when they came in, you kind of speak English, so you get treated like fundamentally a second class citizen.

00:06:26:28 - 00:06:36:04
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, they had their stories. Yeah. And they just got to work through it. So every now and then you've got to be humble, you know, have a go and work towards it.

00:06:36:07 - 00:06:45:25
Daniel Franco
Yeah. Brilliant. So looking back at your younger years particularly, is there anything that you look back on that just makes you smile?

00:06:45:27 - 00:07:09:18
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, it's funny. Some of the things that really made me smile all grew up in pain and there was a little park next to the big park called Taking Them Over, and that's how we used to refer to them bed. The little park was called the Rosella Park and we supplied cricket and soccer all day and the laughs that we would have, you know, and then, you know, you've got and steal an orange from the next door snack.

00:07:09:18 - 00:07:18:05
Alf Ianiello
And so it's just that whole community feel that we had playing at that park and, and we were all from different schools. Yeah. But just also.

00:07:18:05 - 00:07:19:01
Daniel Franco
The local kids or.

00:07:19:01 - 00:07:27:29
Alf Ianiello
Local kids or local kids and or kids with probably a vale at the end. But yes, I know that was.

00:07:28:00 - 00:07:29:01
Daniel Franco
Or an A or an S.

00:07:29:04 - 00:07:47:03
Alf Ianiello
But not many is is not in our area. But now that still makes me smile. And you know, when you used to line up and picked the team. Yeah you know what do you do the last year. Yeah and I, I it was always good and you look you look forward to the weekends and you look forward to the holidays.

00:07:47:03 - 00:07:48:29
Daniel Franco
Where were you picked in the in the bunch.

00:07:48:29 - 00:07:51:29
Alf Ianiello
Oh, I was the picker. Yeah. Yeah. Yes I did.

00:07:52:01 - 00:07:55:14
Daniel Franco
Was it you said earlier before today you said you like controls.

00:07:55:15 - 00:07:56:28
Alf Ianiello
That's right. That's it.

00:07:57:00 - 00:08:13:26
Daniel Franco
Yeah. So the I mean that just doesn't happen these days as a like the local. It's such a shame. I mean we were the same couple of mates around. I lived in a cul de sac and we'd be out all day long kicking the footy around. Yeah, it's a bit, it's a bit of a shame.

00:08:13:27 - 00:08:29:23
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. And then we used to actually, I probably shouldn't say this, but you know, it's not like we had all the cricket paraphernalia, so we used to knock it off from the of cricket. So we had one gloved, one tear, the one stump, but it worked very good.

00:08:29:25 - 00:08:51:03
Daniel Franco
Um, yeah. So Cricket Club will be hitting you up for some compensation. Yeah. You mentioned to me also that your, your younger years you did went through a little bit of hardship, which sort of built some calluses. The resilience in years. Can you explain to us?

00:08:51:05 - 00:09:14:20
Alf Ianiello
So I think, you know, I was always a really good student, good sportsman, and when I was in around year seven, sort of, uh, started thinking about, you know, school started getting a little bit difficult as I started getting bullied. And I and it wasn't probably bullying is probably more, you know, these guys, this person was just looking for help because I was struggling.

00:09:14:26 - 00:09:37:24
Alf Ianiello
But it got quite forceful and actually forced me to leave the school halfway through. So I remember the man of Jurassic put on my parents because I just really not had to cope. You know, this is like a foreign. Yeah. Concept to them. Yeah. So after June seven, I left school and I went to another school and, you know, we had same thing.

00:09:37:24 - 00:10:04:09
Alf Ianiello
A lot of those kids from the park went to that school, so the simulation was okay, but it left that, you know, that really underlying and sort of trying to understand when things are happening, why they're happening, you know, and how you work through them. And it probably took me a long time, even to sort of be able to have the conversation, because a lot of people that made me think there's no way this kid in grade seven could have been suffered bullying.

00:10:04:09 - 00:10:24:18
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, but, you know, end of the day, you know, we had to we had to resolve it fundamentally, had to resolve it, you know, through my own means, because, you know, my parents just weren't equipped in that thing. Yeah. You know, and I would just say, you know, you know, stop crying and go to school. That was the kind of kind of things.

00:10:24:18 - 00:11:01:09
Alf Ianiello
But yeah, we got we got through it. And, you know, so I always have a lot of empathy when I see people just either not being able to fit in or work through. So it's created probably a bit more empathy on how I look at other people. Yeah. And whether they require assistance. Yeah. You know, I've built mine sort of mechanisms over time and then, you know, probably one of the foundational things, you know, you take a lot of senior guys and you know, and you know, maybe I'll just talk about myself, but you live your life out, your comfort zone, right?

00:11:01:09 - 00:11:22:13
Alf Ianiello
You live your life out your comfort zone. So having some of those early experiences that I had to manage right. Have have helped, you know, living your life outside the comfort zone because it's just not just the ways and tiers of life and business, but when you try and push forward all the time, you're always going to embark in in the areas of what you're doing that you haven't done before.

00:11:22:14 - 00:11:40:07
Alf Ianiello
You ambiguity. Yeah. So you've got to back yourself and you got to have intestinal fortitude. And I think what some of those instances in my life have created is the intestinal fortitude, you know? And if I go back to your first question about my parents, that intestinal fortitude comes a lot from them. From them.

00:11:40:09 - 00:11:40:14
Daniel Franco
Great.

00:11:40:15 - 00:11:48:07
Alf Ianiello
You take say if you take in and sometimes learn when to talk and when not to talk, it's another four week thing and you're saying, Yeah.

00:11:48:09 - 00:12:11:29
Daniel Franco
What? We're looking back at it now, and I know you said you wanted to talk about it, but on reflection now do you think that, um, do you think that it was a something that could have been avoided or do you know or do you just actually just genuinely believe that this child was a bit broken and taking it in.

00:12:12:00 - 00:12:35:13
Alf Ianiello
On all lies? I think, yeah. The child was probably a little bit broken. I don't think it could have been avoided. And, you know, so when you actually listen to some of these things happen to other people, sometimes it just becomes a level of normality. Yeah, right. Yeah. And it's as simple as I just had to do his homework for him and that was fundamentally it.

00:12:35:13 - 00:12:46:07
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, it wasn't a physical thing, but just the intensity of always trying to help him to get. Yeah. You know, he was having his own difficulties. Yeah. That's the key point, you know, and, and it.

00:12:46:07 - 00:12:47:21
Daniel Franco
Was just taking its toll on you.

00:12:47:21 - 00:12:54:13
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. So yeah, unfortunately So.

00:12:54:16 - 00:13:04:23
Daniel Franco
For kids now involved in it, you said you were involved in sport with them. I know you're heavily involved in the soccer scene. Yeah. Because you play soccer at quite a high level.

00:13:04:23 - 00:13:29:24
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. I applied to Adelaide City right up to NPL. I was in the junior National League for them, played state soccer, opens to down to the twelves and then played National Premier League in South Australia for a while until my career really made it impossible to do both. Yeah, but I got my kids able to. Boys are cricketers and football players.

00:13:29:26 - 00:13:51:15
Alf Ianiello
My third son's a soccer player and my daughter's a good dancer, so I just love the fact that they get out and do stuff. Yeah. And they push themselves and stay healthy and they mix with a lot of different people from different demographics. And so they're not always bound by the circles of school and their sort of current environment.

00:13:51:18 - 00:14:05:26
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, but you know, you talk about what gives me smiles is watching my kids play sport, you know, and my daughter dances. She probably thinks I'm not sure enough, but it's that I love it. I love it. And I made a lot of fantastic friends through it.

00:14:05:29 - 00:14:29:04
Daniel Franco
Yeah, it's funny. I, um, I played a lot of sport growing up, and my both of my girls are involved in basketball and it, you know, you spend so many years away from a club, the club scene, you grow up in the sporting club scene and like you said, there's so many different characters profiles. It's got its own internal politics and everything that goes with it.

00:14:29:06 - 00:14:42:29
Daniel Franco
And then now my children are in a basketball like district, basketball, playing a court, you know, quite good levels and I love it. Like I actually I feel like I'm back home. That makes sense now. So I know exactly what what you're explaining.

00:14:43:01 - 00:14:43:26
Alf Ianiello
Sport.

00:14:43:28 - 00:15:04:16
Daniel Franco
For me and I try to talk about it a fair bit on this podcast. For me, I believe a lot of my success comes from the sporting career that I had. The the fact that I was able to mingle with so many different people, set goals, you know, try to achieve them together, set, plan, set strategies, you know, all of the above.

00:15:04:16 - 00:15:11:15
Daniel Franco
Everyone plays their position. Do you do you believe that you are where you are today because of your sporting background?

00:15:11:17 - 00:15:39:15
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, I think so. I think from a leadership perspective, I was captain from a very young age. Yeah. So that came with a level of responsibility and I took it like that. Yeah. The ability to trust your fellow teammates. Good. You have to do that at levels. They just sheer, sheer passion to win. Yeah. You know, I played in the, in a team like city I think we didn't lose a game for five years.

00:15:39:15 - 00:16:08:04
Alf Ianiello
Yeah well it wasn't just the. The fact of winning was the dominance of winning, which really excited me personally. Yeah, it's a bit over the top, but that's the fact of the matter is are we like that? And, and, and then collectively, you know, you know, setting a goal when achieving the goal. And some of my greatest some of the people I admire the most in this age today I like the pep guardiola's and even what guys like Ange Postecoglou has done.

00:16:08:04 - 00:16:31:17
Alf Ianiello
Yeah the coach of the Collingwood, you know, and yeah, it's Milan's take lists. They have been around and just make them better. Yeah, you know, it's all man management, it's all setting a path, it's all working cohesively. Yeah. And that's what, and that's what sport told me. Right. Uh, and know I think it's important. And then the other thing that it all comes for and you need really good people, sporting teams are made up of really good people.

00:16:31:17 - 00:16:31:24
Alf Ianiello
Yeah.

00:16:31:24 - 00:16:34:04
Daniel Franco
100%, it's building the right culture, right?

00:16:34:06 - 00:16:37:05
Alf Ianiello
That's right, That's right.

00:16:37:07 - 00:16:50:24
Daniel Franco
So in amongst all this you went to uni as well and decided that you wanted a career in business, you chose electronics. Why did you go to have that path? What did that look like.

00:16:50:27 - 00:17:18:09
Alf Ianiello
To be fair? Oh my tertiary education is quite terrible. Um, my mother always said when I got my degree she couldn't believe I, I needed electronic engineering's. My brother in law was in electronics. Yeah. I just thought it might be a good thing to do. Yeah. Quickly. When I started working, I loved the analytical nature of it, but I quickly understood it wasn't going to be for me long term.

00:17:18:09 - 00:17:38:24
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. So I moved from really hardcore engineering then to sort of technical engineering, and that's more gives you a bit of a marketing bent. Yep. And then sort of made my way through there. But I've got to say engineering as a foundational course is really good because it just makes you think in a certain light. And I think that's been a benefit.

00:17:38:27 - 00:17:41:02
Daniel Franco
In a process taught process.

00:17:41:04 - 00:18:02:27
Alf Ianiello
Taught why. But you know, you know, you're either designing a product or you're designing an organization or a business. Yeah. Or you're designing a way to get yourself out of a situation. So if you take the strategic planning concept, you know, a lot of it is just process. Yeah, you know, and you just got to think in a certain way, not to the point where they just distract you from being entrepreneurial.

00:18:02:27 - 00:18:13:01
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, but so engineer I would rank myself maybe six and that was good sci fi. I don't want to be that main myself, but yeah, according.

00:18:13:06 - 00:18:38:04
Daniel Franco
But you can see, I can see it to concept as well, like sort of going back and sort of understanding who is the person. Because you can see this engineering side, this person's side, and you can see this leader that you were in your sporting career and your ability to work with different personalities. And you said, you know, you mentioned before the Collingwood's in Brisbane's building clubs from scratch and lists from scratch.

00:18:38:06 - 00:18:45:29
Daniel Franco
It's a human element and it's a process element and you've combined it together to be the leader you are today, which this is a big part of your success.

00:18:45:29 - 00:19:17:28
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, the leadership journey's changed a lot. I'm very much a different leader today than I was when I when I started my leadership journey and that really started in the US, you know, and in the US it was a very sort of aggressive leadership style. Yeah, and I think I peaked at aggressive and sort of come off that still a hard driver, but probably not as hard as I used to be.

00:19:18:00 - 00:19:40:15
Alf Ianiello
So I'm really, you know, when you get to 20 years plus in senior roles, you're the sum of many situations, some of many people that you've actually managed. And so I'm probably a bit more wiser now on how to bring the group together. Yeah, yeah. Because I've been heavily criticized in the past about being too black and white and bond rate on achievement.

00:19:40:17 - 00:19:52:27
Alf Ianiello
So, you know, you try and run round and round that out with the cultural piece and yeah, one of my earliest managers who promoted me, he said to me just don't think everybody's like you. Mhm. Right.

00:19:53:04 - 00:19:54:07
Daniel Franco
Understand their perspective.

00:19:54:07 - 00:20:00:23
Alf Ianiello
They understand their perspective and that was a pretty good lesson, you know, at a very formative time. Yeah. Yeah.

00:20:00:25 - 00:20:14:04
Daniel Franco
You know, I think we're all, we're all going through that journey. But before we go on to so that was your us chef and that definitely chef and that guy I can never pronounce is. But before that, you're a big. Yeah. And you did a bit of an apprenticeship there.

00:20:14:08 - 00:20:34:24
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, I just. I joined, I graduated and I was lucky enough to be accepted in the graduate program, you know, So with a lot of people that were far smarter than me. But what a place to work. Yeah, graduate program exposure. There's so much, you know, great people, smart people, great technology.

00:20:34:24 - 00:20:41:17
Daniel Franco
Hence we had Christine Zietz on the show, the anchor thing. She did the same thing. She went through the graduate program, end up staying there for 25 years.

00:20:41:21 - 00:20:43:06
Alf Ianiello
She's been there. Well, yeah, she's.

00:20:43:13 - 00:20:51:20
Daniel Franco
Well, she's out now, but yeah, she stayed there for a long time. But I've heard we've heard the same thing that that graduate project program it was, was fundamental. Yeah.

00:20:51:20 - 00:20:54:24
Alf Ianiello
So that and then that started my journey of travel.

00:20:54:27 - 00:20:55:06
Daniel Franco
That was my.

00:20:55:06 - 00:21:08:09
Alf Ianiello
First international trips into Asia and into the US. And once I got that bug, I thought, you know what, I'd really like to do some overseas stuff. Yeah, And that's where the transition started at a big.

00:21:08:12 - 00:21:18:10
Daniel Franco
So Bay, how come you didn't decide to stay in the defense world? I mean, like, if you enjoyed it so much, why did you move out?

00:21:18:12 - 00:21:32:24
Alf Ianiello
Oh, I made the decision very early on. As an engineer, it's very difficult to be a senior person at Big Nick, the one, you know, a lot of the senior people would be either from England.

00:21:32:25 - 00:21:34:08
Daniel Franco
Yeah, high tech or.

00:21:34:08 - 00:22:06:16
Alf Ianiello
They're the commercial guys. As far less of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I when I started looking at career path, you know, to be, to go up through the project management sphere, you need a lot of experience, experience and a lot of those guys are sort of excess. Yeah I guess I, and then I thought to myself, you know, I wanted to be more on the front end of the business and a customer engineering role came out with it was called right when I started another great essay story and then it was acquired by shift, I guess shifting ago.

00:22:06:18 - 00:22:13:29
Daniel Franco
So you move there, there global automotive. Yeah. In the traffic light space.

00:22:14:01 - 00:22:15:10
Alf Ianiello
As I do revision.

00:22:15:13 - 00:22:17:20
Daniel Franco
Okay systems like I make.

00:22:17:24 - 00:22:19:03
Alf Ianiello
Electronics for cars. Yeah.

00:22:19:06 - 00:22:33:05
Daniel Franco
So you stayed there for eight or so years and in that time you were global engineering manager. So for six out of ten right leg engineer to become a global engineering manager and ultimately the managing director. So tell us about your story there.

00:22:33:09 - 00:22:45:05
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. So I was in the US, they got rid of the US guy and the Australian guys thought, this kid, he's going to be half the cost of the US all. Let's give him a guy. What have we got to lose.

00:22:45:09 - 00:22:46:16
Daniel Franco
In the global role?

00:22:46:22 - 00:22:46:29
Alf Ianiello
You know.

00:22:47:05 - 00:22:48:06
Daniel Franco
Just as in a, in.

00:22:48:06 - 00:23:20:12
Alf Ianiello
A branch management. Well then I came back and became the engineering director for Australia only. Yeah. Then I got promoted to the global engineering director and you got to take it put in perspective. This is a German company, so very unusual for like a 26 seven year old to be the global engineering director and it took me a lot of time to actually get the confidence to actually sit with my peers and the people that work for me because they were much older, much more experienced imposter syndrome.

00:23:20:14 - 00:23:38:11
Alf Ianiello
So it was really tough to win them over. But, you know, one thing I thought, you know what, I'm going to grind it out. Yeah, I'm going to keep working harder than them. Yeah. So I sort of try and assess what my competitive advantages and my competitive advantage was that I understood the tech and I'll work hard at ahead of the curve.

00:23:38:13 - 00:23:59:02
Alf Ianiello
So when I used to go to meetings in Germany with like BMW or Mercedes, I thought I was like the assistant because the cockpit voice is very high, right? You have. So and then I was lucky enough to come back and become the managing director. Yeah, just the Australian division. I was around a thousand people across Australia back then and did that for a while.

00:23:59:02 - 00:24:19:24
Alf Ianiello
And and this is a really key point. I work for a gentleman called Brian Freeborn, great mentor. So I have been extremely lucky in my career that I've worked for very good people, that I've been able to learn a lot of. Yeah, so Brian was definitely sort of one of the first mentors in the business world for me.

00:24:19:24 - 00:24:26:15
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, and, and then I did that for a while and then started my journey. We did what was.

00:24:26:15 - 00:24:30:11
Daniel Franco
One of the things that you remember Brian teaching you?

00:24:30:13 - 00:24:55:02
Alf Ianiello
He taught me the absolute passion. You need to have about understanding what makes up the numbers. If you cannot sit there as a leader of organization and understand how numbers come together and how you can influence the numbers, you're wasting your time. And he was an accountant. Yeah. And and he had you know, he was an apprentice. Came off the shop floor at Mitsubishi.

00:24:55:02 - 00:25:10:09
Alf Ianiello
He's worked in a way up. Yeah. You know, And then he just had a lovely style about him. Yeah, I probably didn't get that from him, but I did. I did. That whole rigor about review and numbers and attention to detail. I got them. Yeah. From him.

00:25:10:12 - 00:25:16:28
Daniel Franco
It's often some things. I mean, it's where some businesses go belly up, right? It's just the lack of rigor on. Yeah. On the numbers.

00:25:17:01 - 00:25:19:15
Alf Ianiello
Yeah.

00:25:19:17 - 00:25:34:21
Daniel Franco
Why you though, you know you said it's very red German young Australian kid, you know. Um, what was it about you that, that they thought, you know what, we're going to take a punt on this guy in, in these larger.

00:25:34:22 - 00:25:55:12
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. Roles. Yeah. I've got to say I think in all the roles of Heads, I sort of performed well and I would say outperformed them. Work really hard, you know, work was everything. Yeah, really, really hard. And I had a good affinity with people, you know, I can have a laugh. I can be, can be tough when I have to be.

00:25:55:13 - 00:26:17:08
Alf Ianiello
I can be fair when I have to. And you can have a laugh. I don't take the whole thing too seriously. Yeah, that's the key thing. And I think that comes back to where I'm from. Yeah, you don't take yourself too seriously. Yeah, right. You know, so, um, I would get more, I would get more sort of laughs when, you know, if I find in my telling community because I'm just not a good handyman.

00:26:17:15 - 00:26:24:01
Alf Ianiello
I don't think that. Yeah. Actually. See, I've an 86 business. Yeah, I quite funny that way, but yeah.

00:26:24:03 - 00:26:24:17
Daniel Franco
I thought you.

00:26:24:17 - 00:26:28:24
Alf Ianiello
Had. Yeah that's right. You know, it's a soft so yes.

00:26:28:24 - 00:26:29:28
Daniel Franco
I, I'm sure and.

00:26:30:05 - 00:26:50:11
Alf Ianiello
I would say that I would say that and, and I've always tried to have an ability to push the current state forward. Mhm. Right. So I've always tried to, you know, say something to push everybody forward and work with everybody so you know how often they're the key. They're the key things you mentioned.

00:26:50:11 - 00:27:12:23
Daniel Franco
Work hard a few times and I keep thinking sport you know, you said you busted your ass you guys, you wanted to win run and I can, you can see that ethic coming through your working career. What is working hard mean to you? Is it more hours? Is it just, hey, down by mop, do what I would do whatever it takes or like because you hear these things these days floating around is like work smarter, not harder.

00:27:12:23 - 00:27:16:06
Daniel Franco
And all the above. What's your what's your advice in that space?

00:27:16:09 - 00:27:47:12
Alf Ianiello
My thing, when you work harder, probably early in your career, a lot of what it was was around volume of work. Yeah, right. I think as you get more mature, you want to make sure Work Harder is more about being passionate about what you're doing and it consumes your thought process. Will that specific amount of time. Yeah. And you're able to put that passion into making your work better and empower people around you, right?

00:27:47:14 - 00:28:06:05
Alf Ianiello
So Work Harder is also when you get a challenge is that you don't curl up in the fetal position. Yeah, work harder is that you stand up and say, That's guy, go, yeah, come on, let's go. So it's like, you know, and then you bring it back to Spot. If you're losing in the last 15 minutes, what do you do and what you step up?

00:28:06:08 - 00:28:14:03
Alf Ianiello
And that's, that's my point. You step up and that's work harder, you know, be passionate better. That's work harder. Bring your team with you. That's work harder.

00:28:14:04 - 00:28:15:04
Daniel Franco
Discretionary effort.

00:28:15:07 - 00:28:21:11
Alf Ianiello
I just yeah, and that's my point of view.

00:28:21:13 - 00:28:35:21
Daniel Franco
I love the on the idea of the stepping up and but do you ever concern yourself with potential burnout in this space like you can push and you can push and you can push and how do you manage that?

00:28:35:23 - 00:28:57:01
Alf Ianiello
Oh, I'm I don't I don't think about that so much. No, I think, you know, when I when I get home to the sanctuary of my home, I really feel it's a sanctioned air conditioning. Yeah. And then a lot of people around me really have nothing to do with my professional career. Yeah, it makes a huge difference as.

00:28:57:01 - 00:28:57:18
Daniel Franco
You just switch.

00:28:57:18 - 00:28:59:12
Alf Ianiello
Off. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:28:59:14 - 00:29:08:21
Daniel Franco
So. CEO of Detmold Your career goes through chef vernacular. I hope I can never get.

00:29:08:21 - 00:29:11:10
Alf Ianiello
As close as it is. Yeah. Yeah.

00:29:11:12 - 00:29:28:03
Daniel Franco
And then what happens? Where is that? Where does the tap on the shoulder come from? Actually, we need. We need this young, young chap to come over to demo run a very, very successful packaging business here in South Australia.

00:29:28:06 - 00:29:54:09
Alf Ianiello
So I've got a phone call from the owner, not from the owner. From a board member. Yeah. And then we just had a bit of a discussion on Mitt Romney and I'll sort of sit and listen. I've got so much going on that shift. I go, it's probably a year end in true, sort of persistent Rodney way. You know, we kept catching up for a coffee maybe every month, every two months.

00:29:54:11 - 00:30:26:21
Alf Ianiello
And then after that year finished, I joined debt and I was the joint CEO for a period of time. I ran all the ops in, the guy ran all the sales, and then that got consolidated into one role, which I took. And yes, I was it was a long courting process and it was very you know, it was a very you know, we went from a business that was far more planes because when you're in automotive, you got long, you know, sales, long contracts to more, you know, consumer type business.

00:30:26:22 - 00:30:30:02
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. Which you learn a lot from that too. Yeah.

00:30:30:04 - 00:30:33:07
Daniel Franco
So what did the company look like when you walked in compared to when you left?

00:30:33:11 - 00:30:40:09
Alf Ianiello
Um, what it looked like it was smaller four months and I have a perspective and a headcount.

00:30:40:12 - 00:30:42:00
Daniel Franco
So headcount, when you joined.

00:30:42:02 - 00:31:09:17
Alf Ianiello
I couldn't tell you when I left as ran 3000 people. Yeah. So all I would say there was quite a bit of consolidation in the early days and we made some tough decisions on performing assets and then we created a lot of new assets. Yeah, I had the moves into, you know, the Middle East, the moves into India, Vietnam, extra facilities in China are acquisitions.

00:31:09:24 - 00:31:33:23
Alf Ianiello
They just kept going. Yeah, right. And you just, you know, the journey just keeps going and we keep getting greater market share with some really good clients. Yeah. So yeah, it was quite, you know, I think, you know, I, I left my old having learned a lot and also, you know, thinking that I've, you know, I left something for someone else to take to another level.

00:31:33:23 - 00:31:48:12
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. Yeah. I like for the first 2 to 3 years that I was probably the highest paid apprentice in, in the packaging industry. When you're sitting next to a guy like Rodney. Yeah. The oracle of packaging. Yeah. You know that. You know, we worked extremely well together. Yeah.

00:31:48:14 - 00:32:16:07
Daniel Franco
I think I know the that my old family, their private family and you know they can, they can be, they can do what they want. But I am Rodney's one of the it's one of the sort of more successful one of the unicorn entrepreneurs to have come out of South Australia. So I'm actually just really interested in wanted first and foremost, why did he trust you to take the helm of his business?

00:32:16:07 - 00:32:24:15
Daniel Franco
This is the business that this family put their blood, sweat, tears and all they're risking and they've chosen nothing, you know. Yeah, I'll take it to.

00:32:24:20 - 00:32:55:00
Alf Ianiello
I think when you choose someone, it's always a 5050 bit. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So you know, it's one thing making a decision that you're looking at bringing a level of capability, your management. But then the trust I would say was built over years, years with Rodney and a lot of it was through delivery, a lot of it was through also my ability to relate, right.

00:32:55:02 - 00:33:16:11
Alf Ianiello
And that that ability to rely also comes back to the fact that of my heritage where we're, you know, we come from a heritage of being highly, highly respectful of certain things, you know, and I think that helped build up the trust. And then, you know, we we play out through the the ups and downs of of stuff.

00:33:16:11 - 00:33:43:19
Alf Ianiello
But, you know, again, you know, I'll speak about Brian about being a significant influence, but Rodney by far would be the humble man, would be a huge influence on my business career. You know what I learn off the guy. Yeah, but then, you know, the passion, the passion to succeed is just this is what a lot of people don't appreciate about Rodney and other people that ilk they relentlessness to get to the end goal is something else.

00:33:43:22 - 00:33:54:14
Alf Ianiello
Right. And that's why they can create these great organization that stand the test of time. You know that's amazing. It's one thing to have an organization for five years, but when you go to the 60 years, it's different.

00:33:54:17 - 00:34:12:05
Daniel Franco
Stands the test of time. So. So what what was it like working for this passionate entrepreneur who, you know, is is so goal orientated about achieving and how did you and what did you learn from from him?

00:34:12:08 - 00:34:33:20
Alf Ianiello
And again, uh, I learned the ability to understand the detail, understand the drivers, understanding that sometimes to get to, to B you're going to go to Z and back. Yeah. You know, sometimes you have to be unconventional when you're thinking that's probably the greatest thing I learned from him. Unconventional? Yeah. And also what.

00:34:33:20 - 00:34:36:00
Daniel Franco
Is what do you mean by that? Can you give us an example? What?

00:34:36:00 - 00:34:51:17
Alf Ianiello
Well, the why all like and you know, most people, when they look at an issue, they look at it from head on. Yeah, right. And then when that doesn't work, they they don't think about or they don't think about the hard way that you might have to get there. Yeah.

00:34:51:19 - 00:34:53:09
Daniel Franco
So the road less traveled.

00:34:53:09 - 00:35:17:13
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. And sometimes those road less traveled. Yeah. It's going to take work is going to take a bit of extra thinking, maybe a bit of extra money, but you still get there. Yeah. So I learned that and also the ability to link up with. He was very good. I found a very good listener, so he would sort of take other people's views, you know, and sort of soak them in.

00:35:17:19 - 00:35:17:25
Alf Ianiello
Mm.

00:35:18:00 - 00:35:32:03
Daniel Franco
And when you say the skill set of listening, listening and then, then what happens after, because you can be a very good listener but, and it's just what you do with the knowledge that you've just made.

00:35:32:09 - 00:35:58:27
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. I think you just got to listening is just another sort of data collection point. You just need to make the assessment that is correct for you. Yeah. And for the situation and you got to do what's right for the business. Yeah. So one thing that we used to talk about at Demo was that when you were in the decision making loop, you need to make a decision that's right for the customer and right for the business.

00:35:59:00 - 00:36:21:29
Alf Ianiello
They might not be right for you. Yeah. So that's, that's what you know, I've fundamentally learned, you know, he had a very good knack of making the right call for the business and the customer. And the customer centricity was absolutely through the roof. Yep. You know, something that I had never experienced prior to my time working there. So.

00:36:22:01 - 00:36:27:14
Alf Ianiello
Customer first. Customer first. Customer first. What what does it mean.

00:36:27:17 - 00:36:36:05
Daniel Franco
Through the roof? What, what's an example of where customer was put in front of you or any individual within the business?

00:36:36:12 - 00:36:57:27
Alf Ianiello
Or I think sometimes you take a longer term view of the customer. So financially you may make an assessment. We would review the customer metrics prior to the financial metrics. Yeah, so that tells you a bit. Yeah. Yeah. So quality metrics and it's all about protecting brand. Yeah, it's all about protecting brand and people having trust in the brand.

00:36:57:29 - 00:37:13:24
Alf Ianiello
So that's that customer centricity piece which and then to actually push that brand and customer centricity across all your sites globally. So when you know the executive chair is like that. Yeah. Very soon permeates Yeah.

00:37:13:27 - 00:37:23:16
Daniel Franco
Yeah. 100%. Looking back at your time in a debt mode group, what what are you most proud of?

00:37:23:19 - 00:38:04:19
Alf Ianiello
Oh, I'm proud of the growth. I'm proud of the evolution of some people that we work with. I'm proud of the mask program that we delivered on. That was quite exhilarating. The project. Yeah, Yeah, during COVID. But, you know, again, you know, I think the business, although I didn't leave it in a perfect state because nothing's perfect, was probably a bit easier to when I left it and we made things a little bit better yet, understand for guys like me that you're running code and or demo, you're a custodian at a point in time.

00:38:04:20 - 00:38:20:17
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. So as long as during that time you're the custodian, you leave a positive influence. Yeah, I think that's all. You know, I think that's a tick. Yeah. You know, I if your engagement surveys are saying it's a good place to work and stuff, I think that's a tick. Yeah. Yeah. But you took it from.

00:38:20:20 - 00:38:23:24
Daniel Franco
One point to another and there was a fair bit of growth there, so you got to.

00:38:23:24 - 00:38:25:11
Alf Ianiello
Be proud. Yeah. Yeah.

00:38:25:12 - 00:38:25:25
Daniel Franco
And that's.

00:38:25:25 - 00:38:39:29
Alf Ianiello
It. Yeah. But that's all. That's all. That's all part of it. All. What I'm saying is, while you're the custodian, if you've improved the current state. Yeah. At a future state. Now, could that future state been better? Might be someone else's job to do that. Absolutely. Yeah.

00:38:39:29 - 00:38:41:16
Daniel Franco
So you played Japan?

00:38:41:16 - 00:38:43:18
Alf Ianiello
I played my part, yeah.

00:38:43:20 - 00:39:05:03
Daniel Franco
So was there any at any given time, was there any point where you thought, you know what, I'm I'm not cut out for this like it where you struggling with the role of of being you see I mean there's one thing that I know to be true is that the at this level it's it's a sport in its own right.

00:39:05:04 - 00:39:28:14
Daniel Franco
Right. The stress when you choose to lead a business and especially businesses of the size that you run, you choose stress. You choose the the tough life that it provides. Well, what does that look like for you? How do you do you ever self doubt you have a question self? And if so, what do you do to overcome that?

00:39:28:16 - 00:39:50:12
Alf Ianiello
Yeah I'm I'm a big big, big believer in focusing on the future. Yeah. So there's always going to be we're talking about flying before. Yeah. It's always going to be a turbulent flight. Yeah, but the turbulent flight doesn't stop you from getting to your destination. Yeah. So as long as you're clear what your destination is, that's what you focus on.

00:39:50:12 - 00:40:09:03
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. Because you not going to be able to control all the variables that come day to day and all the ups and downs that come day to day, you're not going to keep everybody or your stakeholders happy. But if you've got a very clear mind about where you need to get to, I just take those little stresses just as that.

00:40:09:05 - 00:40:25:15
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, right. And, and be very optimistic in nature. And one thing you need to do, you need to back yourself. Hmm. So as soon as you doubt that's not good, because if people smell doubt, you're not going to you're not going to push it forward.

00:40:25:17 - 00:40:31:15
Daniel Franco
But surely there was a point in your career, especially early in your SEO role, that you did doubt.

00:40:31:18 - 00:40:32:07
Alf Ianiello
Yeah.

00:40:32:10 - 00:40:41:20
Daniel Franco
I think because I think for me it's like to say don't doubt yourself is an experience, someone with experience, right? Like you're always going to tell you something really. A Okay.

00:40:41:24 - 00:40:47:25
Alf Ianiello
I guess you doubt yourself whether you know on how you're going to get there. Yeah, that's the thing.

00:40:47:25 - 00:40:51:17
Daniel Franco
We're using the plane analogy that you wonder if there's going to be a crash, right?

00:40:51:18 - 00:41:11:26
Alf Ianiello
Like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you're going to be you just got to break things down into small elements and work through that don't make something bigger than it is. One key aspect. Yeah. And then you break it down and work it through and try and be organized. And if it's not working, have ever enough sort of humbleness to say, This is not working.

00:41:11:28 - 00:41:42:26
Alf Ianiello
I have enough humbleness to talk to someone about it, you know, And I think I was really fortunate at Demo is that Rodney was a magnificent sounding board because if I hadn't seen it, he's definitely seen it in your career. Yeah. So you could talk about that. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess that's the element and I think maybe that might have alleviated those stresses to say, you know, um, you know, listen, I've seen this before.

00:41:42:27 - 00:41:47:15
Alf Ianiello
Think what you're doing is okay. You just got to see it through.

00:41:47:17 - 00:42:05:19
Daniel Franco


00:42:05:21 - 00:42:08:00
Alf Ianiello
At this level? I think it usually comes through the chair.

00:42:08:03 - 00:42:08:19
Daniel Franco
The chair.

00:42:08:20 - 00:42:17:04
Alf Ianiello
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So what could be tapping in the shoulder? Have a drink? Yeah, but I know Donald. Well, I know.

00:42:17:04 - 00:42:19:08
Daniel Franco
I I caught up with Donald during the.

00:42:19:08 - 00:42:21:13
Alf Ianiello
Week. Okay, so what.

00:42:21:18 - 00:42:38:05
Daniel Franco
What did that conversation look like too? I mean, there's this sense of 14 years. Is this sense of connection and affiliation that our if he's the CEO and you're the long term guy at Denman to be drawn away, What what, what how did that all sort of come about?

00:42:38:09 - 00:42:43:19
Alf Ianiello
Oh, I think I'd made my decision and I'd left it more than you had.

00:42:43:19 - 00:42:44:28
Daniel Franco
Okay, Sorry I missed that.

00:42:44:28 - 00:42:49:08
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. And then Donald had made his decision at a later date. I guess so.

00:42:49:10 - 00:43:01:06
Daniel Franco
Yeah. I missed that being sorry. So in regards to the, um, now taking over a company that is ASX listed, it's a different world.

00:43:01:09 - 00:43:02:04
Alf Ianiello
Yeah.

00:43:02:06 - 00:43:09:02
Daniel Franco
What's the, what's the differences in the two from a family business to an ASX listed building?

00:43:09:04 - 00:43:55:10
Alf Ianiello
I think the mechanics of running a business are the same. Mhm. Right. What you get at a 96 level, it's the, the, the absolute external rigor of comms is greater. Obviously a lot of shareholders and the absolutely intense, intense drive for growth. Um, so most of the line items in a PNL or scrutinized and, and for quality and to ensure that they are growing as soon as you demonstrate that you can't grow it, that's where things go poorly and then it's the visibility you know every six months someone knows what you made.

00:43:55:11 - 00:43:59:22
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. How you went. Yeah. It's like a school board. Yeah. And it's there for everyone.

00:43:59:22 - 00:44:00:19
Daniel Franco
To see and see.

00:44:00:19 - 00:44:13:09
Alf Ianiello
And I think that was the element of the role that took me some time to get used to. But it's been, it's been a great experience. I've learned a lot.

00:44:13:11 - 00:44:25:21
Daniel Franco
So that school board is something that not only shows the company, school board, but your own personal school boards out there for everyone to see.

00:44:25:24 - 00:44:27:02
Alf Ianiello
How does that.

00:44:27:04 - 00:44:28:06
Daniel Franco
And does that feel for.

00:44:28:06 - 00:44:28:22
Alf Ianiello
You?

00:44:28:24 - 00:44:31:18
Daniel Franco
Have you had a long lost cousin come and ask for some spare change?

00:44:31:18 - 00:44:54:16
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. Yeah, it depends what school board you're looking at. So if you're looking at the share price school board, that's a collective. Yeah. So I don't take it, I don't take it to praise. Yeah. And you can't really govern what you share. Price Yeah. So as long as you keep it within the band, the other school boards about the, you know, the, and the rim side that's a bit more visible.

00:44:54:16 - 00:45:02:00
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. But I'm lucky most of my cousins are in property. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the.

00:45:02:00 - 00:45:19:14
Daniel Franco
One thing that would really get me. It's, it's like you, it's out there your wages out there for everyone to see. Like it's, it's a difficult thing. It's on the annual stuff like it's everywhere. Right. And yeah, it just seems to me it's um, I don't know if I could ever get used to that. I'm a bit private in that space.

00:45:19:14 - 00:45:31:06
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. Yeah, I don't. I don't. But I don't think I could count on one hand if I've received a question on it. Oh, really? Yeah, Like a like I said.

00:45:31:08 - 00:45:33:17
Daniel Franco
Maybe this is more about me asking this question.

00:45:33:19 - 00:45:42:10
Alf Ianiello
And I, like I said, a lot of my immediate friendship group. Yeah, I wouldn't even know what to do on a daily basis. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:45:42:12 - 00:45:53:18
Daniel Franco
That's the Italian thing. Yeah. Go back to the trade. Everyone's I want anyone the tools, mate. So taking over from codeine and you know, you took, you took on the.

00:45:53:18 - 00:45:54:24
Alf Ianiello
Role.

00:45:54:26 - 00:46:11:07
Daniel Franco
Of succeeding, you know, Don McGurk who is quite rightly, you know very well thought of in the industry and being a fantastic leader. Yeah. How did it, you know, it was a big, big shoes to fill taking, you know.

00:46:11:10 - 00:46:46:09
Alf Ianiello
Obviously Donald's, you know, proving campaign of our and in the world of ASX one thing didn't have is that due to the private nature of the small group people can't ascertain what you've done. MM Yeah. And so that was one key thing. He's actually been a great leader over a ten year period and but one of the key things was that I joined and took over a company that was very different to what Donald Donald really ran a large mine led division and a comms, smaller comms.

00:46:46:11 - 00:47:12:00
Alf Ianiello
I came in as we had completed the two large acquisitions. So the businesses are very different tonight. Yeah. And so, you know, it's not compare, it's not that comparable. Yeah. But you know, like, like I say internally and externally on data build a stronger code and because Codan is strong on data, make it stronger. Yeah. And the guy who takes over for me will make us stronger again.

00:47:12:00 - 00:47:13:20
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. Or person It's.

00:47:13:20 - 00:47:14:15
Daniel Franco
The good to great.

00:47:14:18 - 00:47:34:16
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, that's right. And, and and Donald has been very good over the last 18 months. We catch up monthly and we have a chat about things so if I have an issue you know we're happy to have a chat about it. Yeah. Yeah. So but yeah he's like I say, he's a very good businessman.

00:47:34:18 - 00:47:54:08
Daniel Franco
What's Oh, before we go going to this question, I'm curious, how does a company I've been looking at the share price as a companies how does a company might record profit. I'm this is my naivete here in I think I was 22 or 22 and 22 you made record profit, but your share price goes down. How does that work?

00:47:54:08 - 00:48:00:15
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, because the record profits were made of significant gold detection sales in Sudan.

00:48:00:15 - 00:48:00:28
Daniel Franco
Okay.

00:48:00:28 - 00:48:24:00
Alf Ianiello
And when you were looking forward. Yeah, everything's based on your outlook. Yeah. Okay. So as soon as you say that the Sudanese market is going to fall off. Yeah. And that's where you've made all your money. Yeah. Okay. You share price Tank. Thanks. Okay, so and fundamentally, the discovered periods for Codan were lucrative. Yeah. So, you know, we're sort of building off a base of pre-COVID.

00:48:24:00 - 00:48:48:18
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. And we're building off a base with a far larger communications division, and we're building off a base to actually get more predictable revenue, which codan has. And this is why I like Atlassian, and those companies are so valid so highly. They've got that software as a service. Yeah, repeatable revenue. That's what you really need. So if you can't actually predict that, you're going to have a rosy future share price to share.

00:48:48:19 - 00:48:49:11
Daniel Franco
Okay.

00:48:49:13 - 00:48:50:03
Alf Ianiello
Yeah.

00:48:50:05 - 00:48:56:03
Daniel Franco
So what does the future look like for you? Where where do you plan on taking the brand and the business?

00:48:56:06 - 00:49:37:24
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, I think, you know, I only can communicate what I've communicated to the market. Yeah. So, you know, Minelab is still great business division for us. We've really transformed the business over the last two years with 75% of our revenue. Now comes out of North America and Europe. Yep. For the this is the total group. So we'll continue to focus on growing our comms division in those markets, you know, focusing on growth and either organically or inorganically, you know, so, you know, we, you know, again comes back to the engineering framework and we've got a plan and we just stick to it and keep keep knocking it off as we go.

00:49:37:26 - 00:49:51:21
Daniel Franco
What come back on the ship. What is the share price? What does that do to you individually? Like, do you are you constantly looking at it? Does that is it? I don't know. So I'm talking about running an ASX listed company. What is it?

00:49:51:28 - 00:50:14:29
Alf Ianiello
I'll just see what what I'll look at from a share price perspective. See, the share price now is baseline. So we're either in the top part of the $7. Yeah. Yeah So it's sort of baseline. What interests me is the enterprise value, the market cap. Yeah. So at the moment around 1.4 to 1.5 billion. So what interests me is about getting that bigger.

00:50:15:05 - 00:50:40:13
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. So as we get keep growing and then you go into the ASX levels higher and higher, yeah, that enterprise value grows. That's what interests me. Yeah. We're there for value creation. Yeah. And value creation is just not all about in E, but value creation is about having great customers, repeatable revenue, great people. Yeah, it's just a collect, it's an ecosystem.

00:50:40:13 - 00:50:43:06
Alf Ianiello
It's an ecosystem. Yeah.

00:50:43:08 - 00:51:10:17
Daniel Franco
So I know you're very passionate about leadership and you said something earlier that I think we should touch on a little bit more where you said, I've lived most of my life outside of my comfort zone. Oh, it seems like that is your career, right? As you've taken this step out of your comfort zone, why do you keep throwing yourself into that situation where you are?

00:51:10:17 - 00:51:16:13
Daniel Franco
Like, is it at the point in your career, in your life where you you don't know any other way?

00:51:16:16 - 00:51:38:12
Alf Ianiello
That would be that would be true. I've never been a good follower. Yeah, well, big fail. Yeah. Yep. So and I guess that pushes me to that situation. I think the whole sort of ability to try and learn one of the key reasons to leave, you know, I wanted to join in 96 business for the last five years.

00:51:38:12 - 00:52:02:01
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, right. So one of the key reasons to do that was to learn, you know, it was a monetary, it was to learn they could have gone, they got sacked after six months. Yeah. You know, so, but it's just that willingness to learn and understand the other things. So that's what really drives, I add, added comfort just to get better position.

00:52:02:03 - 00:52:17:06
Daniel Franco
Do you believe that it's fundamental to any late in life, if that's if your mentor, you know, you do a bit of mentoring, is that what you say? Looks like you actually have to step outside of your comfort zone here. You actually need to understand where your boundaries are and step outside of that.

00:52:17:09 - 00:52:46:09
Alf Ianiello
I think, you know, my view and I'll mentor is understand what you're really, really good at. Yep. And amplify that and pick one or two things that you don't like doing but are important for you to be successful and and move in action. Some of those items. So I'm a little bit of an introvert. So when I first started in these leadership roles, one of the hardest things I found is just networking and going to places and talking and, you know.

00:52:46:12 - 00:52:47:26
Daniel Franco
But and then you're in a podcast.

00:52:48:00 - 00:52:58:27
Alf Ianiello
Then you on the podcast and you know, do presentations by advice wakes. But that it is it's just, it's something that you need to do because it's important for the role. Yeah.

00:52:58:29 - 00:53:12:12
Daniel Franco
So when you are mentoring some people, what, what do you see as the common issues that are arising or the common behavioral traits that are holding people back?

00:53:12:18 - 00:53:35:22
Alf Ianiello
Hmm. I think one of the common things I see when I mentor people, people just don't have a path. Yeah. You know, So, you know, if you had aspirations to be a senior manager some way, well, you've got to say it and you've got to have a path to try and get there. If you've got aspirations to own your own home, you need to figure out how you're going to get there.

00:53:35:24 - 00:53:55:00
Alf Ianiello
Like a planning or like a planning lack of forward looking. I think they're the largest things. And then a lot of them that, you know, a lot of the people I mentor are usually in their mid thirties. Yeah. And you know, some of them just like that worldly experience that some of the things they're going through are normal.

00:53:55:06 - 00:53:59:03
Alf Ianiello
Mm. You know, let's just, you know, you ride it out, you'd be better for it. Yeah. Yeah.

00:53:59:05 - 00:54:04:06
Daniel Franco
So can we talk on the planning thing? I know that you're a meticulous planner.

00:54:04:06 - 00:54:04:28
Alf Ianiello
Yep.

00:54:05:01 - 00:54:27:24
Daniel Franco
Can you help us understand a methodology that you believe works? Um, I'm not so great at it. I'm kind of. I plan in my head, and then I hope it works out right. And, you know, I think that creates some sort of anxiety sometimes and gives you like, it's not going to the way I need it. Whereas if, if you can plan it on a page, yeah, I feel like that could work.

00:54:27:24 - 00:54:29:12
Daniel Franco
Could you teach us your work?

00:54:29:12 - 00:54:54:03
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. So I didn't come up with this. I was part of tech for a while, and that's where I met people like Donald and Anthony Kidd or another good side people. Yeah. And they had this framework where you split your life into personal, your family or and business. So if I sit here today, I'm very, very clear with zero ambiguity on what I need to deliver at work.

00:54:54:05 - 00:55:00:06
Alf Ianiello
That's very clear. Right. And these aren't just headline numbers. These are just everything else I need to do.

00:55:00:10 - 00:55:13:14
Daniel Franco
Yeah. So, like, can we just break that down so I know we don't need to go into the detail, but so we're talking about business. This is my these are my numbers, but this is also the strategy. And then everything that I need to do as a CEO.

00:55:13:18 - 00:55:20:23
Alf Ianiello
Correct? Within that. Yeah. So it could be a 12, 18 month, 24 month horizon. Yeah, very high level. It's just a top point.

00:55:20:23 - 00:55:27:28
Daniel Franco
But how do you know? Is it just sort of a brain dump? Like, what do you know? You know what goes on this page?

00:55:28:00 - 00:55:51:03
Alf Ianiello
It's just a brain dump. Yeah. And you got to have a little bit of an understanding of the environment. Uranium, what you need to know. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I'm very focused on values. So a lot of my stuff about work is around value. Yeah. Increasing the value of the organization. Yeah. And when I talk about sort of my personal stuff, you know, that could range from fitness, that could range.

00:55:51:03 - 00:56:07:19
Alf Ianiello
So I'm going to want to run a marathon. I want to lose some weight, which I never that's the I never get to. It's like I say, I've stopped eating and drinking for a while, but, you know, all might say things like, I want to buy another property. Yeah, I want to take a family holiday, you know, that sort of stuff.

00:56:07:19 - 00:56:30:21
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, but that's there because once it's in your mind and in your subconscious, you actually drive activity towards the correct. Okay. And then when it comes to family, it could be as you know, I've had kids go through year 12. Yeah, right. I've had kids prepare for some sporting, I've had kids entering tertiary education and, you know, things that might pertain to my life.

00:56:30:21 - 00:56:53:06
Alf Ianiello
So I just list it and. So I know that if you I have arguments with my kids, we got a four year 12. I would actually put down what the perspective the respective item would be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then start framing it up with them. I wouldn't know. Yeah. But we now we collectively work together, you know, because they have big years for families.

00:56:53:06 - 00:57:06:05
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. When it's your first child as your child, as you have more children becomes lesser. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's that sort of point. Right. And those points are put in a month so I actually plot out all the months.

00:57:06:05 - 00:57:06:22
Daniel Franco
Oh really.

00:57:06:22 - 00:57:28:16
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. So it's January, February, March, April, right through to an eight month period. And we just, I just write in those months things that might be interesting. Say, you know, if your kids are having a 21st, I'll put that in there or 18th or you want to go to Italy for a holiday or somewhere else or, or there's another milestone that you want to look at.

00:57:28:18 - 00:57:31:06
Alf Ianiello
You know, I think it's really important how.

00:57:31:06 - 00:57:32:19
Daniel Franco
Much time you spend on this.

00:57:32:21 - 00:57:55:02
Alf Ianiello
It's more it's more plain stuff. I don't like flying. Yeah. So I've got a folder and on the front of the folder, there's a picture of Venice. Yeah. And my wife and I would really like to own, like, a holiday home in Italy. Yes, sort of retired. 86 months. Six months here. So I'll keep it. There is every time I look at it, that's what I think about.

00:57:55:02 - 00:58:14:12
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. So when I go on the plane, I'll take it out and it might take 10 minutes. Yeah, but I've got the ten previous ones behind it. I never drop them off. Yeah. And, and it's just, it's just nice thinking and sometimes you don't, you don't do it or you don't actually achieve all your goals. Yeah. But then I'll just reshuffle the priorities.

00:58:14:12 - 00:58:15:08
Alf Ianiello
Yeah.

00:58:15:10 - 00:58:20:08
Daniel Franco
So is it a goal setting thing or is it a to do list?

00:58:20:11 - 00:58:28:21
Alf Ianiello
I look at it more as a goal setting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some things aren't that easy to execute. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:58:28:26 - 00:58:47:29
Daniel Franco
Oh, it sounds like I sit here and I go, Sounds like a lot of work, but you can see the benefit and you hear this is stuff that you hear time and time again. Plan your life, right? And do the same thing with business. You know, plan your business, plan, understand your share. You spend so much time understanding what your strategy is, but you don't do it for your own personal losses.

00:58:48:01 - 00:59:05:18
Alf Ianiello
That's right. And then often the other thing that I didn't mention, especially on the personal front, is, you know, there's got to be a few health goals, you know. Yeah. Some of the health checks that you got to do and stuff because you haven't got your health, you got nothing. Right. Doesn't matter what that report says. No. Yeah, you need to have your health.

00:59:05:21 - 00:59:10:24
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. And it's either your physical health or your mental health, but you need to have something. Yeah, I need.

00:59:10:24 - 00:59:30:18
Daniel Franco
Juggle all the time. The I mean, the job itself, like CEO role, the job itself takes and consume so much time. Do you, you know, do you do you exercise or is it just like I mean, some say that 80% of it's all food in the intake. How do you manage that?

00:59:30:19 - 00:59:38:08
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. Listen, all wax and wine. Yeah. You know, I've had times in my life where we used to the ultramarathons and trying a.

00:59:38:08 - 00:59:39:08
Daniel Franco
You ran ultramarathons.

00:59:39:08 - 00:59:55:25
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. Yeah. Well. And ride charity rides to Melbourne and back. We used to ride a lot during the way then I've at times my logs, I don't do anything so now really, you know, I do a few sessions by bit of golf that I should do a bit more. Yeah. I feel so much better when I do it.

00:59:55:25 - 00:59:58:19
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, you do? Yeah. Yeah.

00:59:58:22 - 01:00:16:21
Daniel Franco
So what does your leadership philosophy look like then? I mean, if you are leading now a obviously a very large company, you plan meticulously. What type of leader do you want to be known as?

01:00:16:24 - 01:00:55:00
Alf Ianiello
Oh, I just want to be known as a leader that is fair. Mhm. People trust that you know, they want to actually work with me to make something better and really educate people to be, you know, really optimistic planning for the future. That's, you know, that's really I'm always looking for the future. Right. And, and with everything with everything I do you know you just looking for that next things I will work you know it's a lot of it when you talk about joining an organization like CODA.

01:00:55:00 - 01:01:16:06
Alf Ianiello
And so when you join after a lady has been there for ten years, you spend a lot of time building trust networks. Yeah. Yeah. And building understanding. And and that's that's not easy. That takes just time. Yeah. So, um, so most people that to say, you know, what's f like to work for us is hard but. C Yeah, right.

01:01:16:06 - 01:01:36:14
Alf Ianiello
And you know, and you just try to improve whatever is going on. So and when I look at the business, everything's going to be in the top quartile. Yeah. I don't want things not in the top quartile, I want everything in the top quartile, want everything moving forward and I need to move forward at a rate that is better than the market.

01:01:36:17 - 01:01:51:24
Alf Ianiello
Okay. So if your competitors are growing at five, you should be growing at seven or ten. Yeah. Okay. You know, I said let's not get these sort of safety nets around us and believe we're better than we are. Yep, you're on because the world tells you that in order to be good, you got to be better than. Yeah, you.

01:01:51:24 - 01:02:02:04
Daniel Franco
Could have said that. I'm going to put you some in the post a little bit. Yeah. Do you, do you walk into an organization? I mean, when you started 2022.

01:02:02:05 - 01:02:02:24
Alf Ianiello
Yeah.

01:02:02:27 - 01:02:12:18
Daniel Franco
Do you walk into an organization and what's the first things you look at? Is it something like what's the culture of this organization? Is it the performance? What do you look at?

01:02:12:20 - 01:02:39:29
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, I'm more of an observer. Yeah, so I probably did not much for the first six months. Yeah, I just observed and I think it's important when you walk into a new organization, it's not about applying what you've done before. It's about seeing what's applicable to be done. Subtle difference, but there's a big difference. Yeah. So I really just came in and for the first six months just listen to people.

01:02:40:02 - 01:03:10:00
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, right. And, and try to understand what the core of the business was. Understand who the customers were. Just really understand the lay of the land. Yeah. And why you doing that. You did it. You need to maintain a financial performance and still got to hit the metrics, but it was more about just listening and learning. And I think, you know, after the AGM last year, that's when I saw learnings and I've done enough and now we're going to move on.

01:03:10:00 - 01:03:12:01
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, Yeah.

01:03:12:03 - 01:03:36:01
Daniel Franco
So I am interested in, in the cultural element. I mean we as the business that are on work with a lot of companies on helping them achieve high performing cultures. What effort do you place? I mean you talked about the sporting team before and building from the ground up and putting all that effort in into creating a great and high performing culture.

01:03:36:01 - 01:03:39:10
Daniel Franco
What what do you look at in that space?

01:03:39:12 - 01:03:45:04
Alf Ianiello
I look at communications a lot, so we've just completed an engagement survey.

01:03:45:04 - 01:03:46:28
Daniel Franco
So internal communication.

01:03:46:28 - 01:04:08:17
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. And the communication for me is just not with my immediate time. Also like going down. So I have, you know, I have a lot of executive leadership meetings. I also have senior management meetings. Are you one who reports to the exec? Mm hmm. And I'll just talk to them about strategic content, you know, things that are happening in the business, making them a bit more futureproof.

01:04:08:19 - 01:04:45:19
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. And so they can understand style, you know, create some touchpoints into the business rather than always everything coming through hierarchy. Yep. I think that's one of the largest dangers of business is when the leadership is so focused on hierarchy of communication. You got to have your data points from a variety of areas. So yeah, for me, communication, understanding what's going on, you know, providing a level of feedback and, and you know, just creating that trust environment.

01:04:45:20 - 01:04:48:26
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, yeah.

01:04:48:28 - 01:05:15:09
Daniel Franco
There is, there is a lot of change happening in the world at the moment. And you said to me that if you're like last time we caught up, I remember you saying to me, if you're a great leader, if you're constantly scanning the environment, yeah, and you need to pick up what's applicable to you and what, what's not to you aren't like, I think my toxic trait as a leader.

01:05:15:09 - 01:05:38:15
Daniel Franco
Sometimes I'm trying to get better at it is seeing the new shiny ball off to the side and going and running after and going well, that's exciting. In a world where there's like AI and there's all these amazing new technologies and opportunities popping up left, right and center. How do you as a leader remain steady in trying to achieve your strategy without constantly trying to tweak it?

01:05:38:17 - 01:06:03:05
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, I think you've got to you've got to stay steady and you only tweak it when you think it's not working. So a lot of the new developments that are coming through right, you know, in the world at the moment on this other other technological advancements that are probably closer to code. And yeah, you really need to assess the what the impact may be.

01:06:03:09 - 01:06:27:10
Alf Ianiello
And if it's a large impact, you have to react. Yeah, if it's a small impact that you got a medium time frame like a three year time, I think you can start planning for it. But there's no sharp right turns, you know, in the business wearing. Yeah, okay. Yeah. The only shot right turns of experience is coda and is if you get a geopolitical issue like in C2 and we just shuts the country down.

01:06:27:10 - 01:06:53:08
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, yeah. You know that's a sharp right turn, but I think that's important. And the scanning piece comes back to reading. Mm. You know, so, you know, I, I reckon the Fin Review is a great read every morning. I reckon The Wall Street Journal is a great read every morning. I think The Economist is a great read and reckon the McKinsey articles that come from a good reads.

01:06:53:11 - 01:06:55:03
Alf Ianiello
So if that's my scanning.

01:06:55:09 - 01:06:56:16
Daniel Franco
Every day.

01:06:56:19 - 01:07:12:12
Alf Ianiello
Because I get the summary reports from economists at McKinsey Yeah Review I'll read all the time in the Wall Street Journal probably once a week because we do so much work there. So that's what I use for scanning and, and I only scan and I read and I just pick out the headlines. Yeah. That might be applicable. Yeah.

01:07:12:15 - 01:07:37:29
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. Avid follower of LinkedIn of our competitors. Yeah. And emerging trends. Yeah. And it's so easy and I just pops up and you decide but I think there's probably at least 30 to 45 minutes a day I would I would spend scanning per day. Yeah. Yeah. I sometimes in the morning you know. Yeah. But yeah, every day.

01:07:38:02 - 01:07:48:22
Daniel Franco
So again organizations have gone through a lot of change. Right. And we spoke earlier about the power of planning.

01:07:48:23 - 01:07:49:02
Alf Ianiello
Yeah.

01:07:49:07 - 01:08:18:09
Daniel Franco
And creating a path and putting a lot of time and effort in. And as you're sitting there and you're explaining your method and putting a lot of time in, there is a lot of time and a lot of planning that goes into your personal life. More than anything. I completely understand the business aspect, but it brings me to the the the Abraham Lincoln quote, which is if you, um, if you gave me 8 hours to cut down a tree, I'd spend 6 hours sharpening the saw.

01:08:18:09 - 01:08:40:25
Daniel Franco
Right. And and I think that's kind of the methodology you're working to is to spend a lot a lot of time planning. So when setting up a project or a large change program or business transformation piece for your organization, what emphasis do you place on that front end, like the creation of the project and the enablement of the project.

01:08:40:25 - 01:09:07:18
Alf Ianiello
To do a lot, but probably something will surprise you. I only I'm only there to say this is the railway tracks. Yeah. And you told me what the measures of success are and what success looks like. Yeah. I'm not that a micro plan. Yeah. I think you need to give the empowerment to the team on the how. Yeah, right.

01:09:07:20 - 01:09:30:23
Alf Ianiello
You know, senior leaders need to give the boundaries and really educate and listen what successes in this space senior leaders on about parachuting in and saving the world. Yeah and if you're doing that that means you've done something wrong somewhere else. Now I would say that 15 years ago, ten years ago, I was the parachute professional paratrooper. Yeah.

01:09:30:26 - 01:09:35:06
Alf Ianiello
And I learned very quickly that that's just not sustainable.

01:09:35:09 - 01:09:38:29
Daniel Franco
Is there a size of business, though, that goes that if you're a small business?

01:09:38:29 - 01:09:56:00
Alf Ianiello
Oh, yeah. Listen, I think if you're a small business and you're the owner operator, you're going to be the paratrooper most of the time. Yeah, right. And you really got to pick that half a day, a month to sort of go and sit somewhere and sort of plan your way out. Yeah. And, and that's what I see when I'm mentoring small business owners.

01:09:56:01 - 01:10:10:10
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. They really need that time just to think and plan know when they do can get it right and amazing it's like a snowball. Yeah beautiful to see so I think we place a lot of time in just getting those initial thoughts right.

01:10:10:15 - 01:10:27:01
Daniel Franco
What you know let's on that you said half a day a month or day a month or whatever it might be. What is your planning cycle like? You know, you say you scan the market every morning to you, you set aside in your calendar and you actually set aside thinking time, planning time, or like.

01:10:27:03 - 01:10:48:12
Alf Ianiello
I'm not that prescriptive in the you know, like I say, like I said, I spend a lot of time on aircraft. Yes. That's the time on, you know, like I have a notebook. Yeah, yeah, I want a red notebook. And I probably could go back to, you know, the last 50 days and I'll just raise them and highlight it and say, you know, what's changed?

01:10:48:12 - 01:11:03:07
Alf Ianiello
And, you know, then read stuff and read the strategy document, look at, the finances and, and I'll use that as just collective planning. Yeah, right. And I think if you're doing, you know, a couple of hours a month you're doing well. Yeah you.

01:11:03:07 - 01:11:33:06
Daniel Franco
You said before that the train tracks, right. My job is to sort of set the train tracks and let everyone else get to the destination. I like that analogy. In all your experience, though, you would see that what they're building, the team is building to get to the to the to the final destination. You would see it and you would go, oh, that, that's right.

01:11:33:09 - 01:11:40:29
Daniel Franco
I don't necessarily believe I'm think you're going to that's the right way to do it. How do you not parachuting at that point? How do you hold yourself?

01:11:40:29 - 01:11:54:16
Alf Ianiello
But it's not going to achieve the measure of success. Let them go. Yeah. Because, you know, unless it's not a timing issue, a budgetary issue, and I just thought about it differently than you will, I have. I think it's the wrong thing.

01:11:54:18 - 01:11:59:18
Daniel Franco
But if you think you can alleviate some pain or you actually see something that's sticking out the.

01:11:59:21 - 01:12:04:18
Alf Ianiello
You just make a recommendation. Yeah. Okay. An instruction. Yeah. Yeah.

01:12:04:22 - 01:12:10:18
Daniel Franco
So it takes a lot of experience to be able to not jump in at that point.

01:12:10:20 - 01:12:19:05
Alf Ianiello
And I think it also talk about culture and trust. You got to trust that that Yeah that these guys are going to deliver. Yeah. And that's I guess that's my point.

01:12:19:07 - 01:12:22:01
Daniel Franco
Yeah. Typically they're smarter than me.

01:12:22:01 - 01:12:22:09
Alf Ianiello
A higher.

01:12:22:10 - 01:12:48:06
Daniel Franco
Risk Really. Yeah. And get them to deliver. So one thing that's on them, I am always talking about, you know, always looking forward, which is something I know you do very well looking forward now. And just given your background, you know, you see for 14 years you would have we see a through the GFC that.

01:12:48:06 - 01:12:53:21
Alf Ianiello
Mode was that how would it be. I start in 2000, 7007.

01:12:53:21 - 01:13:10:15
Daniel Franco
So you've just been right. Yeah. Right on the cusp of then and felt that what are you, what's your thoughts on this impending recession that everyone's on. Everyone's talking about?

01:13:10:17 - 01:13:48:18
Alf Ianiello
You know, I'm not an economist, but you know, my, my view is you've got to understand what's applicable for your business and yourself, because the media always makes things probably a little bit bigger than they are. Yeah. You know, mean you talk about interest rates, 30% of Australians own their own home. Yeah. You know, and so there's my view that there is some hurt from a consumer sentiment perspective because people now aren't saving as much, so they're not saving because there's so many inflationary pressures out in the market.

01:13:48:18 - 01:13:52:12
Alf Ianiello
You know, your interest rates gone up, your water bill has gone up, everything has gone up. So this is to say.

01:13:52:16 - 01:13:54:21
Daniel Franco
Exactly what we're talking about. You know.

01:13:54:24 - 01:14:21:16
Alf Ianiello
You want to you want to catch a flight somewhere. It costs double. So all those costs are up. So people now are really thinking, where do I spend my money? Yeah. So for my retail and consumer world, I can see how there may be some pain in the economy. You know, from you know, if you're dealing with government departments or large defense departments or products that are more high end, where discretionary spending is an issue, you're probably going to be a bit protected.

01:14:21:16 - 01:14:46:29
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, and I think that's where sort of codeine sits a little bit for most of its product line. But definitely it is a market where people need to think about how they're going to use their funds. I would say, yeah, what I mean, it's always in the consumer world or retail world and I'm pretty sure they are. I'll be watching my supply chain in takes know watching all my input costs.

01:14:47:02 - 01:14:48:12
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. And essential.

01:14:48:12 - 01:14:50:16
Daniel Franco
Supplies and getting as much cash in the.

01:14:50:17 - 01:14:51:12
Alf Ianiello
In the bank, in the.

01:14:51:12 - 01:15:06:21
Daniel Franco
Bank as you can. And I think that's was going to be my next question is what would you do or what are you doing or recommend leaders to do should this recession come and come soon?

01:15:06:27 - 01:15:34:05
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. So if I had to draw get my ruler out, I'll be looking at our forward forecasts. I would making a stab at revenue drops and then reorganizing the business for that revenue drop. Okay. So that revenue drop, is it quite so this much of gross margin dollars in this one? I need to do more business to actually make money at these levels and then decide can you do anything differently?

01:15:34:10 - 01:15:42:02
Alf Ianiello
You know, how do you leverage other things in your business? But that's the readiness part of it. Yeah, you start thinking about that now. Yeah, Yeah.

01:15:42:05 - 01:15:52:27
Daniel Franco
If it does rear its head, when do you think it would be in your just in your sort of. Mm. Because there's some talk of 12 months, 24 months. You know.

01:15:53:00 - 01:15:57:12
Alf Ianiello
I think with the amount of monetary policy that's around, I don't see it coming.

01:15:57:14 - 01:15:58:05
Daniel Franco
Okay.

01:15:58:07 - 01:16:09:26
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. I think there's going to be pain. Yeah. And you're seeing some of that pain but I don't, I see that with everything we've got in place globally I can't see it hitting us.

01:16:09:28 - 01:16:12:21
Daniel Franco
Okay, that's exciting. But we will.

01:16:12:23 - 01:16:13:06
Alf Ianiello
I'm not an.

01:16:13:06 - 01:16:43:24
Daniel Franco
Economist Yeah, we weren't quite sure on that. Um, I am we families. I know something that's very fundamental to you. Yeah. And I am much the same, so I'm going to pick your brain on this. How do we. I asked this question quite a lot. How do we manage? Well, how do we go about realizing our visions? A personal visions of what we want to do with our business and where we we're taking the time and effort.

01:16:43:24 - 01:17:04:24
Daniel Franco
And you say you travel a lot and all the above. Do we manage that as a person, as a human being, but also try to cultivate those loving relationships? Right. And manage place, time and effort into family and, you know, wives and husbands and children?

01:17:04:26 - 01:17:28:18
Alf Ianiello
It's hard. You know, It is hard. I'm lucky I've got an amazing wife, I must say. You know, she's been part of the journey for a long, long time. And really, she takes the brunt of the sacrifice and, you know, to be fair. And, you know, and she's probably the more rising of the children than. Yeah. So I think when you got the time, it's got to be quality time.

01:17:28:20 - 01:17:55:12
Alf Ianiello
And it's just it's just it's just a hard thing, right? But you got to work at that as a part, as a group. Mm. You know, so as a team. As a team, yeah. So you family's a team, right? And everyone's got different skill sets in your team and so, you know, and, and they're the key things. I often if there's a share tank, if there's a share price tank, one of my sons might ring as Oh yeah.

01:17:55:12 - 01:18:15:22
Alf Ianiello
What's happened to my day. Yeah. I said, oh nothing. I owe you. Okay Dad. You know, it's all, it's all, it's all those things. Yeah, but I try and keep work away from my family and my home life. Yeah, I think that's an important delineation. And while you're there, you know, I just try and enjoy that time. But it's not easy to juggle.

01:18:15:23 - 01:18:17:21
Alf Ianiello
To juggle every day the way it is.

01:18:17:21 - 01:18:29:23
Daniel Franco
I really struggle on this because my wife is part owner of this business, right? Like, cause if you think about I'm I'm in I own the and my wife is naturally so trying not to talk about.

01:18:29:23 - 01:18:30:23
Alf Ianiello
Work.

01:18:30:26 - 01:18:46:15
Daniel Franco
Is it is it is a bit difficult but if you were to give yourself a score I know you said your wife takes the brunt of it. If you were to give yourself a score at a ten on how you've managed your work life balance, how you how would you write?

01:18:46:16 - 01:19:07:20
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, I would say I'll answer that over time. So I probably probably went back 15 years. I probably would have been a three out of ten. I think then as the kids have gotten older and I'll probably come up to around probably six, I would hope the family would give me maybe seven or eight. Their Yeah.

01:19:07:23 - 01:19:09:07
Daniel Franco
They're all turn on the radio. Yeah.

01:19:09:09 - 01:19:29:05
Alf Ianiello
Yes, yes. Yeah, that would give me that. But, but you know I collectively, you know, I think we do a good job so you know my, my wife's highly vivacious. He's got the same energy as the person I met when I was writing. Yeah, you know. Yeah, it's. I, I think that keeps a lot of keeps us all up and about, you know.

01:19:29:07 - 01:19:44:10
Daniel Franco
Do you, do you know when you go home and again, this probably comes to the mental health question do you switch off, Do you you know, does the laptop go in the back or does the laptop stay at the office? Like, do what do you do.

01:19:44:13 - 01:20:04:12
Alf Ianiello
No, no, no, no. I and we're a global business. You know, I have my first meeting at 5 a.m. this morning. Yeah. With the US guys. And then there's it's very common that you have into the evening. Yeah. The flexibility I'll have at codeine today is we haven't got a lot of Australian stuff going on. So you have opportunities maybe to get to work by nine or 930.

01:20:04:18 - 01:20:20:12
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. Maybe do a school drop off everyone. Yeah. No, no, no, no. You know, I'm not saying it's a 24 seven roll. You know, the whole family knows that because it's the global orientation. You got stuff early morning and late at night and that's the way it is.

01:20:20:14 - 01:20:43:01
Daniel Franco
Absolutely. Yeah. Now, I. I'm not going to keep you much longer, so I'm going to just ask a few quick questions before we jump into some quickfire questions towards the end. What what excites you about the future? What is looking forward? And you spoke about it quite a bit. Yeah. What does excite you about the future?

01:20:43:07 - 01:21:10:15
Alf Ianiello
Oh, you know what excites me and it's got enough to do. I'm really excited to see where my kids bring their lives right and really hopefully all the lessons learned they've got my wife and I, you know, I pull them through and they can enjoy their lives and create their own brand and stuff. Yeah, You know, we're not when I look at Koda, you know, I'll love to leave Koda in a better place.

01:21:10:15 - 01:21:37:18
Alf Ianiello
And then I then I got to say, in the next five, six years of its much larger from an enterprise value, I think that'll be a tick. You know I'd love to see Carlton win the grand final because of the crowds of water this weekend. Is that Brisbane Lions? Yeah. So you know and hopefully, you know, you can keep enjoying yourself with your family and friends, you know it's not it's not too hard.

01:21:37:21 - 01:21:45:12
Alf Ianiello
You know what see my mum gets a 90, she's 83, you know, it's just, it's just some of those things. Yeah. Yeah.

01:21:45:14 - 01:21:46:18
Daniel Franco
So that's to her.

01:21:46:18 - 01:21:57:12
Alf Ianiello
No, no, no. I can't go. Yeah I am. But he's always on my shoulder. Yeah, he's a he was someone that you never dog wondering what he had. Yeah.

01:21:57:14 - 01:22:09:27
Daniel Franco
So when you said, you know, you said Rodney played a big part but yeah. Your dad. Yeah. As well was the major, major force. What is that little was that little voice on your shoulder saying to you.

01:22:09:29 - 01:22:37:25
Alf Ianiello
I think, you know, I, you know, I try and be my dad used to say hang around with people that are better than you because you learn more prime time, become a rank and file going. Yes. And then he spoke his mind. Mhm. Right. He was blunt. Yeah. You know and, and I think you don't have to be blunt as bad as he was but, but you need to have a level of authenticity and honesty when you're dealing with people.

01:22:37:25 - 01:22:42:29
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. Right. If you haven't got that. Well you know I reckon you're wasting your time. Yeah.

01:22:42:29 - 01:22:51:00
Daniel Franco
What's the point, you're probably not going to be in the leadership roles Right. If you're not authentic, you know, if there's no transparency.

01:22:51:02 - 01:22:51:12
Alf Ianiello
Yeah.

01:22:51:15 - 01:23:00:23
Daniel Franco
You're more likely to know fall away. So what, what about you personally, and you know, what are your personal.

01:23:00:23 - 01:23:02:10
Alf Ianiello
Aspirations for the future?

01:23:02:14 - 01:23:04:26
Daniel Franco
You know, you said you talked about your kids and all that, but.

01:23:04:26 - 01:23:30:12
Alf Ianiello
What about you personally? Oh, I think if I look forward, uh, you know, my time health, you know, I like developing properties. Yeah, I continue to continue in the property space. Yeah. And, uh, you know, and, you know, I think once you start getting goodness experience and you're proven performer, hopefully in the future can influence businesses at a board level.

01:23:30:19 - 01:23:33:17
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. You know, and yeah so that's we, you don't.

01:23:33:17 - 01:23:36:06
Daniel Franco
Think you've got enough you, I mean you're on boards now.

01:23:36:09 - 01:23:40:08
Alf Ianiello
All very very minor ones. Okay I'm talking about other sizes.

01:23:40:10 - 01:23:40:23
Daniel Franco
Okay.

01:23:40:24 - 01:23:43:04
Alf Ianiello
A serious thing. Yeah Very good.

01:23:43:06 - 01:23:57:19
Daniel Franco
Radio. So we're going to jump in and quick, quick, quick fire questions just to round off the the podcast where big ratings here in creating synergy and synergy like you, what is something that you're reading right now?

01:23:57:21 - 01:24:15:08
Alf Ianiello
A lot? An avid reader because I spend a lot of my time scanning about one book I'm looking at reading is called Range from David Epstein Range, and it's really a story or a study about specialization versus generalization. Yeah, the professional.

01:24:15:10 - 01:24:24:00
Daniel Franco
Beautiful. What's one self-development book or leadership book or anything like that you feel that stands out like one that you're probably gifted more than anything else?

01:24:24:07 - 01:24:29:21
Alf Ianiello
The 5 a.m. Club Ballroom Shaman. Before I am Club.

01:24:29:23 - 01:24:35:11
Daniel Franco
When I was in your office, you had one on your desk. There was a yellow book. What was that one?

01:24:35:11 - 01:24:36:17
Alf Ianiello
Leadership from the future.

01:24:36:17 - 01:24:37:11
Daniel Franco
Leadership from the.

01:24:37:11 - 01:24:38:11
Alf Ianiello
Future? Yeah.

01:24:38:14 - 01:24:40:18
Daniel Franco
You said that. Also mentioned to me that that was.

01:24:40:18 - 01:24:46:08
Alf Ianiello
A good that's a good read and that's really a read that governs how I like running business.

01:24:46:08 - 01:24:47:21
Daniel Franco
Yeah, I think Leadership Fall.

01:24:47:21 - 01:24:54:09
Alf Ianiello
And Club was more about, uh, personal development, you know. Yeah, fitness and all that sort.

01:24:54:09 - 01:24:55:05
Daniel Franco
Of giving up of form.

01:24:55:05 - 01:24:59:14
Alf Ianiello
I am, yeah. Do you? I did it for a long time and I felt fantastic.

01:24:59:16 - 01:25:11:02
Daniel Franco
I struggle in the morning and, and I say, I said this the other day to someone, they're like then you got to get up at 5 a.m. you go for you run. The unit is like, I struggle. I'm not a morning person. I said, You become a morning person. Yeah.

01:25:11:04 - 01:25:22:04
Alf Ianiello
It's just a clarity of thought, but it's just not go for a run. You know, you post to meditate. Yeah, Yeah. Get yourself for the day and then you've got to do some exercise. Yeah. So it's the balance.

01:25:22:04 - 01:25:23:09
Daniel Franco
So you followed that book.

01:25:23:10 - 01:25:23:21
Alf Ianiello
Or you did.

01:25:23:21 - 01:25:25:03
Daniel Franco
The meditation and.

01:25:25:06 - 01:25:28:16
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, I didn't really matter. I just sat there. Yeah.

01:25:28:18 - 01:25:39:12
Daniel Franco
Being your own thoughts, do you spend much time diverging off this question or these questions or any, do you spend much time? You talked about thinking, do you spend much time just sitting and thinking.

01:25:39:15 - 01:25:43:21
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, and I'm a deep, deep thinker. Yeah, yeah.

01:25:43:27 - 01:25:45:14
Daniel Franco
Like daily or.

01:25:45:16 - 01:25:49:04
Alf Ianiello
Oh, you know, when you're in the car, you know, when you're on your chair.

01:25:49:08 - 01:25:50:16
Daniel Franco
Switch off all devices.

01:25:50:17 - 01:26:00:18
Alf Ianiello
And I'm watching those poor YouTube videos that everyone hates. It's just mind numbing you. So you think about lot of things. Yeah.

01:26:00:20 - 01:26:05:27
Daniel Franco
What's the one lesson that's taking the longest to learn?

01:26:06:00 - 01:26:10:24
Alf Ianiello
Not everything needs to be perfect. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. He and I wonder.

01:26:10:26 - 01:26:17:13
Daniel Franco
If you could have coffee with one historical or current figure. Who would it be?

01:26:17:15 - 01:26:20:14
Alf Ianiello
And I think Barack Obama.

01:26:20:21 - 01:26:24:13
Daniel Franco
Yeah, it's probably one of the most.

01:26:24:16 - 01:26:49:06
Alf Ianiello
I think for me, you know, first colored president, you know, I did a lot of good things two times. Uh, I just liked his style and a lot of wise and, you know, his foreign policy was strong. Maybe some of his internal policies lacked. Yeah, it's probably more of a discussion on how do you bring people along for the journey.

01:26:49:06 - 01:26:53:06
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. You know, and, and stuff like that. So yeah.

01:26:53:08 - 01:27:05:16
Daniel Franco
I just he's the way he taught his communication skills are phenomenal. What's some of the best advice that you've ever received?

01:27:05:19 - 01:27:07:12
Alf Ianiello
Higher altitude.

01:27:07:15 - 01:27:08:20
Daniel Franco
Higher for altitude.

01:27:08:20 - 01:27:09:26
Alf Ianiello
Train for skill.

01:27:09:28 - 01:27:11:06
Daniel Franco
Training for skill.

01:27:11:08 - 01:27:16:27
Alf Ianiello
Yeah. I would never, I would never swap it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

01:27:16:29 - 01:27:22:23
Daniel Franco
I love that. What's one habit that holds you back the most?

01:27:22:25 - 01:27:26:22
Alf Ianiello
Um, might be overthinking. Yeah. Yeah.

01:27:26:24 - 01:27:28:10
Daniel Franco
So what is your biggest skill is also.

01:27:28:10 - 01:27:30:25
Alf Ianiello
Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

01:27:30:27 - 01:27:35:06
Daniel Franco
Um, what's your biggest pet peeve?

01:27:35:09 - 01:27:40:19
Alf Ianiello
Fake people. Yeah. Okay, sure, sure.

01:27:40:22 - 01:27:42:27
Daniel Franco
What Do you do? Just walk the that off.

01:27:42:29 - 01:27:44:24
Alf Ianiello
I just don't talk to him.

01:27:44:26 - 01:27:46:12
Daniel Franco
What does a fake person look like?

01:27:46:16 - 01:27:55:29
Alf Ianiello
Oh, people that just lack authenticity. Yeah. You know, you can't trust them. It's all people that are self-absorbed. Yeah. Yeah.

01:27:56:06 - 01:27:58:06
Daniel Franco
So, yeah, it's always about him.

01:27:58:08 - 01:28:06:15
Alf Ianiello
So if I meet one at a function, I turn off, I go really bad, and my wife just kicks me under the table. So is there.

01:28:06:15 - 01:28:07:14
Daniel Franco
Is there into the.

01:28:07:14 - 01:28:13:01
Alf Ianiello
Corner? Yeah. The tolerance level is like binary. Yeah.

01:28:13:04 - 01:28:17:07
Daniel Franco
Well, I'm glad we've been having a conversation.

01:28:17:10 - 01:28:18:05
Alf Ianiello
Yeah.

01:28:18:08 - 01:28:25:25
Daniel Franco
If you could pay someone to do one of your chores, what would it be? What chore would that be?

01:28:25:27 - 01:28:33:05
Alf Ianiello
You know, I don't do a of diet, but I like the gardening and I'll pay the. Yeah. You're planning on. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

01:28:33:08 - 01:28:39:23
Daniel Franco
What's one word you absolutely hate is hate. Hate. You know what. Hate, hate.

01:28:39:23 - 01:28:44:14
Alf Ianiello
The one that I cannot. That is such a strong word.

01:28:44:15 - 01:28:45:03
Daniel Franco
It is.

01:28:45:03 - 01:28:57:24
Alf Ianiello
It's such a strong word. And I can't in I've never experienced that. You could go to that level with somebody you know, or something. Yeah. Yeah, that's.

01:28:57:27 - 01:29:00:18
Daniel Franco
True. I remember someone saying to.

01:29:00:18 - 01:29:02:16
Alf Ianiello
Me.

01:29:02:19 - 01:29:28:10
Daniel Franco
Early in my life actually saying that if you you hate someone, then you're almost at the point of wanting death on them. Yeah. And I've always taken it that way and I hate that person. So I'm, I get the pay me out a lot here actually because I say I apparently best friends with everyone. So I think like that's just my nature is it's always yeah everyone's a great person We we're collecting people in our lives.

01:29:28:10 - 01:29:36:27
Daniel Franco
That's what we're doing. What's the it's a bit of a creepy question. What's the first thing that you would do if you became invisible?

01:29:36:29 - 01:29:48:16
Alf Ianiello
That's a tough I would love to sit in on a cabinet meeting. A cabinet meeting, A cabinet meeting law for the Australian government. Yeah. Yeah.

01:29:48:18 - 01:29:50:13
Daniel Franco
You would love. Yeah.

01:29:50:15 - 01:29:56:28
Alf Ianiello
I just don't understand what they talk about. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, yeah. Listen, that question can go.

01:29:57:02 - 01:30:08:24
Daniel Franco
Yeah. No, no, but I get what you're saying, but I just think about. So is that coming, Are you coming from the position of you want to hear what they're saying because you don't think it's up to scratch or.

01:30:08:27 - 01:30:22:21
Alf Ianiello
A position of interest. Interested it just. Yeah, Yeah. You know, you know, you could say like to, you know, go and sit in on the big associations if they exist you know. Yeah. You know, stuff like that. But it comes from a position of interest of Yeah.

01:30:22:24 - 01:30:24:00
Daniel Franco
What is actually going on.

01:30:24:00 - 01:30:25:22
Alf Ianiello
What is actually going on.

01:30:25:24 - 01:30:39:11
Daniel Franco
Mhm. Yeah. I'd be, Yeah. Now you said there's the conversations around um you know the relationship between China and the US. I would really like to understand What's happening there.

01:30:39:13 - 01:30:41:19
Alf Ianiello
You like to understand if it's real. Yeah.

01:30:41:21 - 01:30:42:28
Daniel Franco
That's true.

01:30:43:01 - 01:30:49:14
Alf Ianiello
I did a lot of business in China and when you read the Chinese papers and you read the Aussie papers, the completely different.

01:30:49:14 - 01:30:50:03
Daniel Franco
Oh really.

01:30:50:05 - 01:30:51:28
Alf Ianiello
Going on in country sometimes. Yeah.

01:30:52:00 - 01:30:57:08
Daniel Franco
So are we more focused on them than, than what they're focused like?

01:30:57:10 - 01:31:11:16
Alf Ianiello
There's sometimes, sometimes I did get that impression. But, you know, I'm not an expert on these issues, but I did get that impression from what some the media rhetoric was. He wasn't what was put there. Yeah.

01:31:11:19 - 01:31:30:18
Daniel Franco
I think for us, I mean, we've had Christine that's on the show and, you know, and a few people from the defense market, it's that trade route, which is the one thing that's probably going to concern Australia the most out of all of this, which obviously will affect J price and everything that goes with it as well. Right.

01:31:30:18 - 01:31:35:22
Daniel Franco
So what's one of the most useless talents that you have.

01:31:35:24 - 01:31:55:06
Alf Ianiello
Useless, useless talents. That's a hard line. PLIBERSEK That is probably confides in God's useless talent. Oh, I'm off to take a pass on that. Yeah, as a common answer. What's it going on?

01:31:55:09 - 01:31:56:24
Daniel Franco
Oh, some arrows. Good.

01:31:56:26 - 01:31:57:27
Alf Ianiello
Yeah.

01:31:57:29 - 01:32:02:25
Daniel Franco
Everyone's got a random I can't even remember now what they would. Or they say.

01:32:03:01 - 01:32:03:10
Alf Ianiello
Yeah.

01:32:03:18 - 01:32:09:00
Daniel Franco
I like the question because it just, it get like the preschooler one is, was like I can play the timing cards but it holds me.

01:32:09:00 - 01:32:10:24
Alf Ianiello
Like it.

01:32:10:26 - 01:32:19:24
Daniel Franco
Gets nowhere. Yeah right. My favorite question of the whole podcast, what's your favorite what's your best dad joke?

01:32:19:26 - 01:32:27:19
Alf Ianiello
My boss rang me this morning and asked me to have a great day and I've decided not to go to work.

01:32:27:21 - 01:32:28:14
Daniel Franco
Well.

01:32:28:16 - 01:32:30:11
Alf Ianiello
Thank you.

01:32:30:13 - 01:32:48:24
Daniel Franco
Very good. Well, look, thank you so much for your your time and taking the time out of you. Obviously, you're very busy schedule and spending it here and sharing your journey and your thoughts and your experiences. We really appreciate it. And kudos to you and your career and everything that you've achieved. Um, I speak on behalf of everyone.

01:32:48:24 - 01:32:53:21
Daniel Franco
It's be really interesting seeing your career moving forward and what it all looks like. So well done.

01:32:53:24 - 01:32:55:26
Alf Ianiello
Thank you. Thanks for the time. I really enjoyed it.

01:32:55:28 - 01:32:59:29
Daniel Franco
No worries. Thanks. Everyone will catch you next time. Geez.

01:33:00:01 - 01:33:06:25
Alf Ianiello
Thanks. Thank you. Beautiful. Thanks. No worries. Thank you. Well.