74: Part 2 - When Stress Tries to Kill You - Interview with Bronner "Bama" Allen

It is not merely the high-stakes nature of maintaining order that this interview touches upon. The psychological toll of being a correctional officer is scrutinized through "Bama's" heartfelt story. He takes us through the day-to-day operations within the prison walls, where he encountered a gamut of scenarios – from gang violence to his own personal battles against stress and despair. Bama does not shy away from discussing the often-taboo topic of suicide among law enforcement, highlighting the importance of mental health support and community outreach.

 This episode is Part 2 of 2, be sure listen to Episode 73: Part 1 - All I Know is Corrections - Interview with Bronner "Bama" Allen

We can all help prevent suicide. The 988 Lifeline provides 24/7, free and confidential support for people in distress, prevention and crisis resources for you or your loved ones, and best practices for professionals in the United States.  https://988lifeline.org/

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Transcript

Michael: 0:36

Hello and welcome back to Prison Officer Podcast. Today I am talking to Bronner Allen, but before we get to Bronner and his story, I just want to take a minute to thank one of our sponsors. During my 29 years in corrections, I have used or supervised Pepperball hundreds of times. Now, as a master instructor for Pepperball, I get to teach others about the versatility and effectiveness of the Pepperball system. Pepperball is always the first option in my correctional toolbox because I can quickly go from area saturation to direct impact. With the non-lethal Pava projectiles and with impact ranges of 0 to 150 feet. Pepperball is perfect for cell extractions or fights on the wreck yard. To learn more about Pepperball, go to wwwpepperballcom or click the link below in today's show information guide.

Michael: 1:24

Hello and welcome back to Prison Officer Podcast. Before we get started today, I just want to point out that, if you have not yet, go back and listen to episode 73. All I know is corrections in my interview with Bronner Allen. This is episode 74, when stress tries to kill you, and this is the second part of the interview that I had with Bronner Allen. Now, if you're going to watch this today, I just want to make you aware that we are going to discuss some tough topics.

Michael: 1:50

We're going to discuss suicide and depression, and you know how that affected Bronner. I thank him for being so honest and I think this will really help a lot of people to hear his story and how he got through it with the support of the people around him. I do want to note that if you are thinking about suicide or if anyone that you know is thinking about suicide, there is a national suicide hotline now and that number is 988. So if you know of somebody or if you're thinking of suicide yourself, please reach out and call that number and get some help. We've had too many correctional officers suicides in this country, not only recently, but over many, many years. It's something that has affected us at work and affects us today. But let's get on with the part two of the Bronner Allen interview. Thank you.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 2:45

But I knew what I was doing. When you know, I got the Pollock and then it started. It was yeah.

Michael: 2:54

So tell me about Pollock, because for those of you that don't know, pollock was, oh man, it was off the hook for years. When they opened up, they filled it with a lot of inmates that were very tough to control. You guys had escapes down there. You had big fights. Tell me about some of it and what you saw while you were there.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 3:17

My first day, you know well. Actually it was kind of like, you know, my house on trip. I got down there and I saw pictures of Pollock, I saw pictures of Alexandria, where I stayed at in Louisiana, and I'm like, oh man, this is nice, this is nice, and I get off the airport, get off the plane at the airport and I walk out of the terminal to where you know I could see Alexandria, and I'm like going, oh my God, this is not what the pictures look like, you know. So I checked in my hotel and remember I said, you know, I'm a big Alabama fan and I got the name Bama and I went to this restaurant chicken wing restaurant and they wanted to serve me ice water because I had an Alabama shirt on. They were saying this is LSU country, you know, prepared Something like oh man, I'm not even gonna like this place and I ain't even seen the institution yet. And so I go back to the hotel and I probably use five cans of space starts on my uniform to make sure that this thing was immaculate. And I get there and I walk around the USP and I saw the fences lined up. I'm like going, man, these are like cages on the outside, you know, and that's what it looked like, it looked like our wreck cages when you walk out in the yard, because Pollock was so bad that you know they had actually put fences up to separate the inmates, the housing units. So you had A, a, b and a, c, so the C yard was like the softball field and then the B yard was your basketball courts and your handball courts. Then the A yard was the soccer field and they would swap them. So A would have to walk to another fence get to B, b would walk on another side, down another side of walk, get to A or whatever. They were going that day. So I was like, oh man, you guys got kind of like segregated this whole place and luckily that first day that was making my house trip more than happened, it was quiet.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 5:13

You know, I walked around with a lieutenant and I actually can't even remember his name, the first, their first lieutenant. I don't even think he was there when I got back, and so I walked around and I'm like, oh, like, this is pretty cool. And then I met, you know, gordon Srodd, and that was an experience right there. We talked about top ward, and so he was kind of like you know near the bottom there, but not not saying anything bad about him, but I just get that particular taste of people. But then I went to the FCI and I walked around the FCI with a lieutenant, hades, and Hades was a great guy, he retired also and we walked around and I remember walking into one of the units and the officer was on the phone. He's like, oh hey, I think a lieutenant's here. I'm kind of looking down at my bars and my shirt. I'm like oh yeah, I think that's what I am.

Michael: 6:12

I think I am.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 6:13

And I told him. I said you can get off that phone. He's like this is yeah, hold on a minute. He hung up the hands of the phone and I'm like going so, how's your unit? Look? He actually put his hands on the desk, looked around, you know, outside his little vestibule and goes, it looks pretty good. And I'm like I mean I need you to get up. We're going to walk around the unit. We walked around the unit and he was like right in my pocket. And so we get back and I tell Hades, I say look man, I think this officer is scared and he's like this. He says yeah, he says I think he's, he's, he's going to be just a couple of days and he's going to be gone. And it sure was. It wasn't for him, he was, he was scared, he. He actually almost locked the door after I left, you know. But you know it seemed like you know what. This seems all right, I think I'm going to be good here.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 7:07

So then I go back home and I get everything packed up and move the park and my first day, you know, I get there at about five o'clock in the morning. She starts at six and the tenant's upset, upset at me because I'm there early. I'm like going hey, you know, I'm here to do my. You know, get my details, sentences and all that stuff done. I like to get here early. He's like, well, I'm not paying you, I don't want to clock in at 545. I was like man, you do whatever you want to do. You know, bobby, bobby, and so Bobby was. He was one of those, those guys that he would get mad and then 10 minutes later they come and apologize to you. So I did all my details, census.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 7:51

And another great officer, nicholas Tate. He's a lieutenant now Pollock, and Tate comes in and he's hey, oh, you're the new lieutenant, I see you, sir. I said Lieutenant Allen. He's like I'm officer Tate. He's you ready to do mainline sir? I said yeah. So I start to walk out with him and he says hey, you got to get that.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 8:09

The mere rotation and if it was a no, no, no, no, no. Rotation is you don't call everybody at one time. You know you call like a one or a two, let them get in there, eat and call the next couple, and you just keep rotating. Once all A's out back in the unit, then you call the B. You know unit, because you never want all those in at the same time.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 8:28

Sure, so I, gradually, I asked Bobby. I said hey, man. I said uh, you got a mere rotation sheet. He says oh, just let me stop doing what I'm doing. It's like get your mere rotation sheet. I'm like calm down.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 8:38

But he was using some, some profound words, so I was like going, man, you cuss at me one more time. So it gives me the sheet. I said thank you. It's like this. He says aren't you going to make me a F and copy? I'm like that's it.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 8:54

I told Tate, I said step by a minute.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 8:56

And I told him. I said look, man. I said this is my first day. It could be my last day. I said this don't mean nothing to me. I said you ever cuss at me again, so I'm going to punch you dead in your mouth. And I said I'm going to make your copies for you. So I made the copies for him and uh, he said all right. And Tate's like go and give it five minutes. Five minutes, I'm like what is five minutes? And I'm bad now I'm upset. I said I can't do this, with Tate talking to what he did, and he comes in there, he says hey, he says we'll sit down and he says let's, let's start over. I'm, I'm Lieutenant Ventura. He says I'm really sorry about what I said in there. He says that's, that's wrong of me. And I said man, it's okay. It's okay, so he's all right. Well, if you need anything, just let me know. And he goes, he rings me in mainline and, uh, so we finished mainline. I actually do all my detail sensors, which takes me about an hour or so, and I'm hot now. So I go back and I get a Dr Pepper out of the machine and as I open it up, the Dr Pepper spores all over my uniform. I'm the going. Oh my gosh, my first day I said now I got sort of all over my uniform and luckily all that space art that I put on my shirt, you know, it just kind of repelled the Dr Pepper. So I'm like all right.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 10:08

Well, as I'm in the bathroom they call body alarm in a Bravo unit. Well, I take off running across this yard and I mean I was in good condition. I thought it everybody's like running at a jog pace and I'm just full speed and they're all yelling me slow down, lieutenant, slow down. I'm like, oh, it's body alarm, it's a body alarm and I hit those steps and I could not go up the steps. People are passing me saying so. Then I'm like, oh crap, I can't move my legs. And I get up there. And I'm like, oh, I'm going to get up there. And I'm like, oh, I'm going to get up there and I'm, and so we cuffed them up and we're taking down the back stairwell and this in me bites me in the thigh and I'm like going, oh, my god.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 10:56

So my first day I get yelled at by a lieutenant, cussed at I get so all my uniform and I get assaulted by an inmate the very first day I'm like going, man, I don't think I'm gonna like this. And and then the next day, yeah, the next day, I'm like going, okay, I'm gonna do another day, this, one more day, see how it goes. And, right, I'm just riding that me in the parking lot and we're talking about. He said, hey, so how was your first day? I heard you got assaulted, you're alright. Yes, I got a little bit of you know, redness where inmates teeth are still, you know, showing on my thigh. And he's like, oh, I hate that happen to you. So he's, I got something to show you I saw right.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 11:35

So we go in his office, well, the warden's briefing room, and they got all these monitor. I've never been it. I actually never know you've been in the warden's waiting room and there's cameras everywhere and, well, monitors, and there's, you see, where the whole institution. He's like I want you to sit down a minute, I want you to look at something. He says you're a GS9 lieutenant, you've never been here before. He says that means you got fresh eyes. That's why I hired you Fresh eyes. I'm like going okay, cool. So we sit down and I'm looking at these monitors and he's like look at this one right here and we're looking at unicorn and staff are standing with our their hands in their pockets and inmates are walking through the metal detector, lights are going off, people, inmates are taking their bags or walking around the metal detector. He says what do you see here? And I'm thinking myself going okay, you're a lieutenant now, you're not an officer.

Michael: 12:26

You go ahead and say something.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 12:27

Because I was thinking that officer mentality going, man, I ain't telling me nothing, right? I said well, I said I see the lights going off, that means they have metal. He's like that's exactly what they have. He's an officer. He's ain't doing anything about it. He said I need you to go over and correct that. Now I'm like going right now. He says yeah, right now. I said you know, I'm only a nine lieutenant, right? He says you're gonna be a eight officer back at butler if you don't do what I tell you to do. I'm like going with, that's all right.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 12:57

So I walk over there and the door opens up and it's through Hispanic inmates coming out. I'm like, hey, we're y'all going. They're like, oh, we're going back to the unit, we're just waiting on a buddy. Now, first I'm thinking of my hey, going, you should be coming out this door. And then I'm thinking going, but yeah, I said I Maybe I don't know, maybe there is a movement called you know, and you guys are going back in it. But you know, I'm like I'm not sure and I'm certain another in it comes out and they pull out knives and they start stabbing this boy and I didn't know what to do. I actually just I stood there for me going, oh my god, what just happened. And I find I was like, oh hey, I need help. You know, all staff needs assistance in this fighting. You know, and I'm trying to give as much detail I got three Hispanic inmates. They got weapons or stabbing another inmate, and I'm just going on and on. And they get there and they lay their knives down and and they lived. I thought he was for sure dead, but he ended up living and they took him away and I'm like going, oh my god, this is my first day here and already seen, you know, a huge roof, a rhythmic stabbing, and then all day long it seemed like we got a bylaw, and bylaw staff needs assistance, you know. It just kept going on and on and on and I'm like going, this is crazy, yeah, what I get myself into.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 14:24

And so after it was all, there was about lunchtime, one lieutenant came back and they were like going, you all right? I said yeah, I'm good. They said you look kind of, you know, you know Flustered or you know wondering what you think you, you got yourself into. And I said, I said I really don't. And he was like going, says it's gonna be all right, you just got to go with the flow. Just come in here with a with a strong mind, you know a strong head. He says you know, take care of your staff, make sure they go home. I said well, I want to make sure I go home too, he says. He says Take care of your staff and you'll go home. Right, I saw, I saw do that and they're like on you're from butner.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 15:07

I see, yeah, they said we got another lieutenant here from butner. And I said who's that? They said a Glenn McDonald. You know, he's off. You've been off last couple days. He'll be here tomorrow. He'll be your operations in tomorrow.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 15:19

I said man, I said I don't gland, which I only knew Glenn Kind of real fast. I mean I watched your podcast, you know, with him and he talked about, you know, warden Johns and some other things and I really did not know all about Glenn until watching your, your Podcast. But I knew that he had a lot of experience when it came to the disturbance control team and I was the gear officer. I used all the equipment to everybody and I remember rainy Jones called me up, you know, and saying this is why we're at butner now and I think Glenn was a food service foreman over at the low low security and I remember rainy called me up and said, hey, I'm gonna get you relieved. I got a officer on Glenn McDonald. He's gonna meet you at the DCT building, issue him some equipment. He's gonna be a new team member. So I said, all right, cool, so I go over there and me and Glenn talked for probably about half hour. I was issuing this gear and he was telling me about all his experience with disturbance control and and him being the Marine Corps. I thought, man, this guy's freaking awesome, you know.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 16:29

And then I really didn't see Glenn again, you know, cuz he never. He never made it to training, because I guess that's when him and Gordon Johns got into it and he got off the team Shit. But I was excited to see Glenn when, you know, he came up and so that next morning we actually had breakfast together and then we came in the institution. He actually came in early and it seemed like, you know, he set me his expectations, what he wanted me to do. Right, I'm like going, okay, I mean hold on. But I was like on, hey, you see, he said I will teach you to be the best lieutenant the bureau can have. He said, if you listen to me and I'm like on, I will, and I I made that promise and I did pretty good and and and then we had a you know he talked about, you know, another officer, another lieutenant on man, this Gerald, yeah, this Gerald.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 17:27

And here's my relieving activities with tenant. He came at two o'clock and it was it's reports after his force. I'd have them stacked up like this tall and I have to do all these these reports. Glenn made me do all those insert ports before I left. He said you put all those in before you leave because you're not gonna leave him with all this stuff. Well then me and Glenn argue if you bit and things got kind of you know straight and me and Glenn didn't talk that much anymore. It's kind of like you know two bills going at it, you know. But I learned a lot from Glenn.

Michael: 18:05

That was in its office. I mean you talk like Was anybody getting along in the lieutenant's office or was just the stress of it keeping you guys wound up, or I?

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 18:15

Think the stress you know, you know Glenn would always be telling me to be ready. And I think, you know, looking at it today, you know, looking back at the at my career, I think Glenn was more like trying to say I'm trying to get you prepared, I'm trying to make sure you have all your stuff done, so that way, if something does happen, your stuff's done, you don't have to worry about coming back and trying to play catch up. You know what? I think it's how he to me, I think it's how he told me to do it. You know it's like oh man, why don't you ask me? Or kind of sit down and but then you're with grand, if Glenn's listening, right now, glenn's my going. Look, I'm not gonna, you know, super official anything. You know We'll be able to hold your hand and tell you hey, lieutenant, this is what I want you to do, right? So, um, I think that's what Glenn was trying to do. He was trying to say, hey, I need you to do this, I need you to listen to me, and I think he was trying to be stern to me this whole time, saying that, okay, if I try to Talk to you in a normal voice, you're probably not gonna get it. So let me explain it to you in the way I explain things. And I still admire Glenn.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 19:29

But, paul, like my first day, you, my first week, he was just running, running, running, running and I kept my uniform always clean, my tie on, and Me and Donnie got, donnie got into it. I thought Donnie Cartrett was the best captain to ever work, for I wanted to be exactly like Donnie Cartrett. Yeah, and the way he talked to inmates, I'm like going. I probably could never do that, but I want to be just like him. You know, I thought he was just just awesome. The FCI was where I was used to running. I felt more comfortable at the FCI than I did at any other place and I could run that. I mean, I could tell everybody go home and I thought I could run it. That's how confident I was. And then we had a major disturbance on a January, the 13th, and and it was it changed everything what year?

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 20:27

2013. Okay, and it was, it was. I didn't think I was coming home. I was actually, you know, praying, saying dear Lord, please, you know, please, let me get get through this, don't let me die too bad. That wasn't the.

Michael: 20:42

FCI, or at the pin that was the FCI.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 20:44

Okay, I'm just 600 Hispanics decided they wanted to kill each other. Third thing was they they were not gonna hurt staff. It. I don't know how that works, but 600 inmates said, okay, we're gonna kill each other, but we're not gonna kill staff or hurt staff. Right, we agree on that. And I remember we had just ordered it was a Sunday and we ordered pizza for everybody Me and my activities attendant and the pizza just got there and we took around the staff members and said you know, hey, appreciate you all for coming in, you know, doing a good job, and that's what we did as a lieutenant.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 21:21

You know, um, I don't know if you guys did that when, where you worked that, but that was the thing. We took care of staff on Sundays or, you know, holidays or wherever case may be, but we did that. We cooked out, but that was back to the, the disturbance. So that creates some calls and says, hey, you know, we got some Hispanics grouping up. So I said okay, so me and another officer, decody, we just passed away not too long ago. I couldn't believe that.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 21:52

But so we walk out there in the rec yard and Brian Hunt Brian Hunt was my compound officer. Yeah, it was, for they were. They were kind of grouped up. So we run up to him and there's a lieutenant. You know, everything's good. I mean right away. I'm like, oh, I didn't ask you anything. So the Cody talked to him. You know he spoke from Spanish, and the Cody was saying, hey, they just had some.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 22:17

You know, issues were certainly inmates. You know, they're trying to figure out, you know, when they're gonna bring him up to the tennis office. You know the word, any kind of computation and all that stuff. Who's gonna go up when they're gonna come up? I'm like, oh, okay, so we wound up. The next group, next group, next group. It was always the same thing, you know. Hey, everything's good, everything's good.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 22:38

So we walked around the soccer field, which there's probably 300 of those inmates playing soccer, they love soccer, and so we come back around and I asked one more time. I Said everything's good. And these Hispanics that were there, they were a couple of the leaders. They were like going everything's good, lieutenant, everything's good, mm-hmm, you know, you don't have to worry about your staff. And I should have caught it right there, yeah, when you said I don't have to worry about my staff. So as I'm walking out, I get to the just a metal detector.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 23:13

As you come into recreation in the rec, calls for calls, got a fight. I'm like I'm both fights, got both fights and then boom, it just went Crazy. I mean you were holding on the fences, inmates are running by you and you're trying to grab inmates throwing to the ground, and it was. Then we got some munitions in there, got some flashbangs, you know, in. It felt like it took days To me and probably other officers to say hey, it's over with, but I think it was just a couple hours and we got all the inmates in flex cuffs. They're all on the wreck on the soccer field. I think we had eight ambulances out front Taking the mates to the hospital.

Michael: 23:58

Did they just wear their self out? Or were there Decisions that you guys made at that time that actually quelled, that caused them to stop and separate? Or was it going on for so long that they they got what they wanted done, so they they quit.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 24:13

I think it was a little bit of all three, I think it was. They were, they were, they were getting tired and they, they accomplished what they wanted accomplished and then, with with a strength of force that we were showing on it, it stopped it. I the use of first that we had, you know, with the flashbangs, we stopped a lot of inmates from we contained a lot of inmates from coming off the soccer field. So we actually stopped that from where inmates going into where you know, because that happened on the handball court, and so we have a fence in between the Soccer field. Then you got a fence that comes like kind of like this so where this is the basketball court and then this is the handball court, and you got like a Vestival that comes up, but then there's the soccer field. So all those, we started locking the Basketball court up first, because there was nobody over there except some white kids and a couple of black guys playing basketball and watching ball. But we stopped all those inmates coming off the soccer field and we were Ten ball raunchers, we had gas, we I mean we were just throwing everything we had. I mean we went through a lot of stuff right, and Finally, you know, and I remember calling on my radio because I didn't know, I mean, this was crazy.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 25:31

I'm like control, we need more staff, we need more staff. And I remember the control off scorn with Ted Allen, deep breath. And I remember here in my in my head, when she said deep breath, she says they're on the way, and she was so calm, nice, and she was like and she was telling me to calm down and I actually, when she said that to me, you know, I took that deep breath and I'm like going all right, everything's gonna be fine, everything's gonna be fine, staff are coming, staff are coming. And I remember it got all over with, you know, um and I'm, a whole incident. We had a staff member he was running from food service and trip right before he didn't hit the right yard and heard his ankle. And Then another staff member, he got lit up with pepper ball.

Michael: 26:21

Mm-hmm.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 26:22

I can't remember who had the pepper ball gun. I mean, I might have had it at one time, but he got. He got lit up on the side of the legs and so that was really the only injuries that we had. You know, um, no, I think I an officer. He got hit by a botchy ball in the shoulder, but those were the only injuries that we had.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 26:46

I would say, five staff maybe. Out of that five staff, two of them were actually, you know, hit by an M8, but I think it was more like get out of the way. You know we're, we don't want you involved. You know I'm trying to get that in me right there. So it was no, and I felt good about it. I'm like going okay, I'm still, you know, a hundred percent, I didn't get no staff hurt or killed during my watch.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 27:12

Yeah, and that was my goal and that was something that Teddy Moscow and you know, ty, rule, they always they. They taught me that. They said go in there and make sure your staff go home. You know you do what you got to do Take care of your staff. You know, most importantly, you know and it's one of those things where we, as I'll ask lieutenant supervisors. You know we get promoted and I think what I can bomb we talked about earlier with him saying you got to go somewhere else.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 27:42

I think what it is is sometimes we forget where we came from and we're on that buddy system if we're at the same institution, to where, as if we're somewhere else. You know, you don't know how I, how I do things. You know I'm not. You know I don't hang out with you. You know in the dorms and you know play cards and all that stuff. But the thing is it's always, you know, we forget where we came from and we forget that we're now Supervisors but we also have to be leaders. In that same aspect, we can't just be a supervisor with a lead by example, and we just had this discussion a couple days ago At New Hanover and it was that thing to where you know you got to stop being a supervisor, you got to be a leader. And this is in our in the sergeant's office explainer than people and they're like well, what do you? I said you know what I know. I said, but I'm trying to tell you right now that you know there's a difference between being a supervisor and being a leader. I said you know, if you want those, you got those powers. You got those starting strikes because you wanted power, so be it. But you'll never gain the respect of those officers.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 28:55

And that day on that wreckyard, when that disturbance happened, officers were coming up saying hey, thank you for telling it, thank you for telling it, thank you for telling it. And you know, that meant more to me than anything else in my career that you have officers saying, hey, when you go on next quarter, you know, are you going to mornings, are you going to days in staff want to follow you. That's what makes you a good leader. You know, after that day it seemed like that's what it was. Everybody wanted to go. You know where I was going, you know. But you had your few that said, hey, I'd rather go, cuz every time Allen has a person that we have a disturbance, I'm like what happened one time? You know, come on now. But Then they, they sent me back to you, the FCI.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 29:41

After. You know, a few changes. You know People, the inmates are escaping from the camp over there at Pollock, and so they, they said we need a lieutenant over there. You know, just make your. You know the executive officer at the time she's like I want us, I want to lieutenant, I want him assigned to the camp. And I remember going to the camp and they said just make your own. You know, oh, schedule. They said, you know, maybe work a couple of those nights, couple days evenings, couple days during, you know morning, so that way the M8 doesn't know when you're gonna be there. So I'm, I own an office and I go in and I work with the officers and everything.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 30:20

And then they sent me back to the USP, which I thought was like thank you, I'm going back to USB. You know, I want to be a captain. I said I need that USP experience, I need to get that rest, that USP in. And then, of course, I watch your podcast. It will list me your podcast and I think what you do is great, appreciate and, um, you know so I, in my career at Pollock, you know I retire and I had a great career I couldn't get back home because all these, you know, 18 months, or you know that I have to do before I could do anything. Sure, I get back home, I retire and I go back to North Carolina and I'm sitting on the beach for six months enjoying life and everybody's dying, everybody's committing suicide on their when you say, you mean people.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 31:14

You've worked with people. I work for people that retired you know, even, even people I don't know, you know, right. So I started looking at it and they tell us that our average Life expectancy is what three years after we retire? And I'm like going and I gotta go back to prison. And my wife's like going, you gotta do what I said. I got about prison. I said I said I can't, I don't want to die, right, and she's like going, what are you talking about? So I showed her the emails and she's like well, go work at Walmart, go work at Home Depot, low something. I Said I don't, I don't know how to react. I mean, if somebody talks to me in a, in a, in a driving away, or if someone you know, um, I I can't explain it to her, and so I tell her I'm like going, I gotta go back prison, yeah cuz, that's what you're comfortable.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 32:05

Yeah, it's all I know how to do. You know, in this job, you know and I was I was talking about. We're talking about stress and everything else. You know, back in 2017, captain John Birmingham was there and Lieutenant Oscar Mac which he I think he's awarding now too those were probably. Oscar Mac is is my mentor, he's the one that taught me how to be a real lieutenant and you know I admire him today. He's just everything and I remember the stress got me and I remember that Me my wife got this huge fight because he was still living in North Carolina.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 32:52

She's I'm tired of being away from you because she'd been away from. We've been separated for I mean away from each other for 10 years. Oh, wow, you know she had moved to me with me to Louisiana. She stayed in North Carolina. That was just flying home all the time and he got old and old and we just got this big, huge fight and I was saying myself going you know what I'm done? Hmm, and I had it all planned out and and I planned that you know I was gonna go to work, get all my paperwork done, make sure everything was ready for the lieutenant when he come in right and I remember that, um, I Was gonna go sign the books and the mobiles and then I was going the Armory and so I went out, I remember, get all my paperwork done.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 33:40

I hadn't turned my computer on yet and I went outside to do the mobiles because in my mind I kept thinking going you gotta do it now. You gotta do it now because you're gonna change your mind, something's gonna happen. And control calls means this hey, you know, you got a phone call. So I go to the front lobby, I answer phone call and it's a John Birmingham. He's like home. Hey, I'm telling Alan oh, have you checked your email yet? I said no, sir. I said I haven't. He so he says check your email. He says make sure this stuff gets passed on to your employees. Now I'm like going Okay. So I go back out into my office, go back to the side port and it's on suicide.

Michael: 34:27

He's wild.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 34:29

Yeah, tell me, wow. So I'm really email, I'm like going, okay, suicide awareness month. You know, talk to your staff, tell them the red flags, tell them everything. So I tell control, give me a conference call. So we're going through the conference call and I'm talking and nobody's saying a word. Right, it's just everything to me. I don't know what I said. Everything was coming out, and so I hung up the phone and I said, uh, um, all right, now I'm going on me because I was frustrated at the same time because everything was coming out, all right. Phones were ringing about the hook. Hey, lt, you all right. I'm like, yeah, I'm fine. Hey man, how about you come back around? You know we sit and talk. I'm like going, I'll make around later, no man come on.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 35:20

They look around. Yep, exactly, I saw make around. Later I said I appreciate you though. Yeah, so I get about the desk.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 35:28

I go to Sally Port and Steven the cells. He's my control officer. He says can't let you out. I Said what do you mean can't let me out? I said you know I'm not braced with that. He said man, I don't care who you are, he's I'm not letting you out. He's like this. He says um, we'll take care of the army.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 35:48

Later I Said why I got company to count. He says I'm a big boy. He says been doing this a long time. He says I'll do count, you don't have to worry about you, so I'll put your name on it. Yeah, I'll say you know this is bullshit, right? He's like Is what it is? Alan, go mix them rounds. Man, go talk to them. Staff, right? So I've been around and I made about halfway around and talking to staff and staff saying hey, you okay, alan, you're right.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 36:14

And then it was not lieutenant anymore, it was like Alan was on a personal basis. Why y'all ask me if I'm okay, I'm good, this is what you son, you know this net. And then I hear lieutenant Mack to the 10 Allen. I Said go ahead, lieutenant. He's like a 25, the operations office. So I go to the office and him and Birmingham are in there. The cells called them immediately and they were like what's going on? And I just broke down and uh, yeah, oh, kat, burma hand goes all right. Look, here's the deal. He says let's get online. And he got me a plane ticket and drove me to the airport and, max, I go in. You ever think something stupid like that again? You see, you don't have to worry about going down, right, wow.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 37:02

And I and I was like it's just the stress of this job, this, everything that around you does to you. And so after that I became a real big advocate on the suicide watch. I mean, well, suicide prevention and everything else. You know, and I stress it every single day you know, no, the people you work with. You know, no, the red flags, no, if they come in all the time joking and you know smoking. And now all of a sudden they're quiet today. Pull them aside, see if they're all right. I see me that home and I tell this all the time just because of this incident.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 37:35

And if it hadn't been for Birmingham, I've hadn't been for, you know, mack, having been for Stephen DeSalle's the control officer, who knows, yeah, no, I might I might have chickened out at the end, but it was, it was. It was a bad, it was a bad time. So, yeah, it just was. It was the stress of this job does to us, you know it's, it's unbelievable.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 38:01

And a lot of people and like says so, when I was sitting on the beach that day, I'm like, on, I gotta go back to prison. I'm not gonna, you know, sit here and then have a heart attack or anything else. So my wife's like so we're going back to Louisiana. I said, heck, no, we're not going back Louisiana. I Said you know what I said? I got an idea I'm gonna end my career where I started my career, yeah.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 38:26

So I called up and I said, hey, look, I want to apply to the state prison, you know, but I want to come as a lieutenant, mm-hmm in the state prisons, like North Carolina is like on, you must be out of your mind. You can't just come to stay as a lieutenant, you're gonna have to work your way as an officer all the way back up. Oh. So I got the experience and so I said my the prerequisites of a GS 9 lieutenant and the GS 11 lieutenant. And they came back and they said oh my god, you qualify, you know, but there's no lieutenant positions at New Hanover. Yeah, you know there's a sergeant position. So I applied for it and they said well, come in as an officer, go to school and as soon as your school gets done, we'll promote you a sergeant, which they did right, and I've been a sergeant since. So I'm working on my, but I started back as a sergeant at the state in March of 2022, so I'll be going on two years now back at the state.

Michael: 39:27

So when you went back to the state, did it feel right? Did you feel more comfortable? Did you feel Relief? Going back to working corrections, I did.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 39:39

I mean that sense of you know. You know, I think at first my head was filled with all the knowledge that I had from the bureau, right, that, you know, I'm like going, hey, I'm gonna make a big difference. Come back to the state, you know, these guys are, you know, still in. You know the the caveman days, you know. So I felt really comfortable coming back, you know, and then it seemed like I was hitting a brick wall. Every single time I turn the corner where I go hey, how come you're all doing this? Yeah, they're like going, because we've always been doing this, you know. You know, nobody wants change, nobody wants this and that, and so, first, you know that first five months I was working, I had to work this backyard and they told me, they said that I couldn't be around inmates because I wasn't certified. I mean I just spent 20, you know, almost 21 years in the bureau. I got six years with you guys and Now I'm not certified. They said no. They said you know, you gotta go back to school. I mean, I got OC on I can't carry a baton because that's what the state has. State has OC and they have batons, yep. And so I was like going, I Can't work on inmates. I said I got 200 inmates walking this backyard past, walking past me every single day. They're like going, yeah, but you can't be running me. So like whatever. So you know, I'm like going, I'm starting to hate this job again, you know, oh my god. So I said there's, there's a workplace where it's only got nine inmates in there. Those are generous. I can't go in there and work. They said no, I can't work the gatehouse, nope, I'm like all right, whatever. So I go to school, I graduate, and that I'm thinking myself going hey, I got all this knowledge, I'm gonna be top of my class. You know, state, state policy and bureau policy are totally different. It's, it's kind of the same, but it's not. And so what I was thinking was right is wrong. And I'm like going okay, well, let me adjust everything. And you know, I Wasn't at the bottom.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 41:57

I was probably maybe I think we had 15 people in there. I was probably number three, you know, but I had the experience and the instructors thought that was great, that, you know, they thought that me coming back, because they talked to me. They said why would you do that? I'm like I don't know what else to do. They said, well, good luck, you know. And they they even said, they said we think you'll be a great asset. So I come back and burn. My week later I get my sergeant stripes and now I think I got a little bit more.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 42:29

Say so in a matter, but you know it's still a no. I mean, I've gone in there and said, hey, warden, you know I'm not trying to vent the wheel or or, you know, change the style of the wheel, but you, maybe this will help. And the warms were like going, this ain't the Bureau, alan, you know you're not a lieutenant, no more. And I'm like going, well, I think it'll help. No, they ain't gonna help. And then, uh, this last year everybody's been getting ACA accredited. And uh, so they came back and they're like okay, you need chips to check out equipment with which they didn't have. They were just giving people keys and saying here you go and then wondering where the keys are at who's got these keys, who's got those handcuffs, who's got this? And I'm like going, and I said it when I first got there. I said y'all need to have a chip system to put on there. Well, aca came back and said hey, y'all got to start using chips, sure. So I'm like going see. So some of the stuff I tell y'all makes sense, yeah, yeah. And they're like going, alan, come on. I'm like, look, I can make you a whole list right now what we need fixed. I said because I did program review Right, you know, as a US 11 Lieutenant, we did that stuff.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 43:48

We prepared for ACA, for OSHA, and so I said I know what I'm doing. I said you know. I said they sent us a Denver, colorado, to do this stuff. I said you know, I've taken the classes and they're like going, all right, well, maybe you could just submit some paperwork, we'll see where it goes. So, aca, we still haven't been accredited. There's some things that you know we need to do to get that accreditation. But the chip system is now in effect.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 44:25

They got little plastic ones you know that I'm going to go and I got out of these metal ones. They're like, come on, man, you know the test, we need chips. We went this far, you know we'll order some new ones. I said, all right, well, I'm just I'm just trying to tell you these plastic ones get broken or this net get a solid metal chip, and I carry mine with me that I got from the Bureau and they're like going, what are those? I said these are real chips, these have my name on it. So, if you know, if I have equipment, and so it's, it's a different, different beast, sure sure, but well, it's good.

Michael: 45:01

So you're still working there, you're comfortable there. How are you doing mentally? How are you feeling? How's your mental wellness? Have you came around and understood some of what was going on with yourself back then?

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 45:15

Yeah, me and my wife at the time were actually divorced. Now and you know I got a. I got a new new lady in my life and she's just wonderful and you know she keeps me going. You know she's got two kids. You know I think you saw CJ come in here a minute ago. He plays football, he wrestles Kate and she just left for college. She's near and I think her well, she started in August, you know. So she's been college, she's home for you know that Christmas break she's doing. She's doing really, really good. She's going to be a nurse. But my mom and dad, they live right down the road and my dad, every time I come home I talk. He wants to talk corrections but at the same time he don't want to hear nothing about corrections.

Michael: 46:07

Right.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 46:07

You know I'm like, well damn, why don't you bring it up?

Michael: 46:10

So when you? Were when you were having some of that stress going on and you were dealing with some of that, did you feel like you could go to him and that he would understand, after being in it for all those years? Or I don't know, I mean, I've never dealt with that in my own life.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 46:26

To me. You know I wanted to talk, but I think you know if I had said something to my dad, my dad would enjoy walking the path and in my career right there.

Michael: 46:37

We do get very comfortable talking with the people around us. They become a family. They do you know.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 46:45

And you know like I felt comfortable talking to. You know, mr Bieler, you know you look at my past. You know we're a warden rule. You know. Now Ty, you know I felt comfortable talking to him, but at the time it just seemed like, are they too busy to talk to me? Or you know, you know, I felt as if if I had made that phone call, you know, and said I'm going through a problem, they probably would have stopped doing exactly what they were doing and said, hey, look, I'm on my way. And I think at the time Ty was in Miami, or he might have been. Yeah, I think he was in Miami at the time. He was a warden down there, I think with Mac, you know, and that's why I think Mac was so mad at me. Oscar was like going, why didn't you pick up the phone and call me? You?

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 47:39

know, we would have talked John Birmingham. He was the same way. We mean him talk as he got me home and he's like are you sure you're going to be all right? I said I'm fine. He said, well, let's keep you on his mind.

Michael: 47:54

It's an interesting viewpoint that I think you need to and we're talking about this and there's other people that are going to want to hear it but the fact that you thought that they were too busy or that you know you didn't want to interrupt what was going on with them. Yet I know those guys and you're right, they would have absolutely, you know, drove right there if that's what you needed, and so would 100 other people probably Some of them that you don't even think about would have done that. So I don't know how we get that, because you're not the only one I've ever talked to that says that. You know, I wanted to keep it to myself.

Michael: 48:30

I didn't want it to become somebody else's problem. I didn't want, you know, to interrupt their life and it's not an interruption of anybody else's life. It wouldn't be if I called you tomorrow and said, hey, I'm feeling this way. You know you would absolutely take them, take your time to talk to me or listen to me or whatever it is I needed. And so how do we get that out there? How do we let each other know that that phone call is sometimes all it takes?

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 48:58

You know, and I think about it, we, you know you've had all this experience in the Bureau and you know we have our ARTs and I think that you know we stress more on that. You know, to staff. You know, maybe you know, like you know, the podcast now you know me saying what I said. You know it'll bring others out to say, hey, you know what? I had the same experience, you know, but I actually talked to somebody, you know, and the thing is that, if you look back at it, I did talk to people. I had a conference call and I'm explaining hey, look at suicide. You know, awareness month, you know we got to be aware of our red flags. And then I remember anything else. Yeah, as I'm talking, and it's those staff that said, you know, because everybody, like I said, everybody got quiet and there was nothing. I said, all right, y'all the good shit, I see you, I want to see you. And I hung up the phone and boom phone started ringing. Hey, you're all right, you're all right, you're all right. So in a way, I did ask for help, but at the same time I didn't realize it. It wasn't like I said hey, I need help. Can you guys, you know, give me a call, you know.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 50:15

But I think like we had Warren Holland, he was a, he worked in the bureau and he was at the state when I got there and I was still an officer and we had run into each other a couple of times and he committed suicide after his house and I was supposed to go over, you know, the weekend prior and I had something come up. I mean I'm saying, hey, man, I said I ain't gonna make it over the house and he was just having a little cookout and at the time nobody knew Right. And I go to work and they say, you know also, howling committed suicide last night, you know, took his life. I'm like, oh my God, yeah, yeah, you know. And he didn't, he didn't put no signs out.

Michael: 51:05

Yeah, you know, because the same thing is I probably, if I think back on it, I have known maybe as many as 20, but at least 15 staff Over my 30 years in corrections who've committed suicide.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 51:22

That's crazy, you know we had a wreck officer we're doing ACA and he came in to do. He was a wreck supervisor and I won't say his name. He was wreck supervisor and he came in, cleared all ACA, they passed. He started his drive home, pulled on side road and shot himself. Yeah, had already had gotten a letter from the warden, a letter for his wife, and then there was, like you said, there's probably about 10 other ones that you know. I remember I don't know which prison it was, but a mobile.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 52:01

He got in his vehicle and drove around the corner of the perimeter. So himself, sure, you know and you hear all this. And he did it on a day that the fire range was open, that they were doing ART. So the mobile, the other mobile didn't even realize, yeah, yeah, we just kept going by.

Michael: 52:21

Then, finally, when I was saying that, I need a break, and it's interesting how many people including you know, you were thinking about it at work that have actually come into work to do that. You know, is that cause that's where we feel comfortable? You know, I don't know, but it has happened a lot over my career, so yeah, you think about it.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 52:44

you know all of us, you know all, even off. The suicide thing is the fact that sometimes I go to work Just because I'm comfortable, I don't, I don't want to, I'm bored at the house. So, like now, we're, uh, we're, we're so short staff. On Christmas Eve, it was just me and three officers watching 400 inmates. Wow, so we're so, so, so short staff at the prison right now and there's only one sergeant and and my night shift, we have three sergeants. And I said I told somebody, I guess it. You know what. We really need to put this out. And you know, um, I don't know how many, you know, um, north Carolina State employees watch her podcast.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 53:36

But we're all short, all over the state of North Carolina and they're closing, their closing, you know, uh, buildings down to where they're having less inmates or they're they're closing some institutions down saying, hey, we don't have enough staff to do this, um, and if you say, the officers mentality today, not talking bad about these guys, but in our day, we sucked it up. You know, we, we stayed over a couple hours and we're back on our shift. You know, in six hours, these guys here, they, they have to stay over an hour. They're gonna take the rest of the day off, the next day off, um, for they're gonna say, hey, I'm gonna be about three hours late. I'm like going.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 54:19

You know, the beginning of shift is the worst part of it, yeah, you know. So I need you here for the beginning of the shift. If you want to take off at the end of shift, so big go ahead. And we've said over and over again that you know this is crazy, that it's gonna take somebody to get hurt for somebody to actually realize that we're this short. Yeah, and nobody wants to hear it, but it's all over the state. I mean, I was just looking at it's all over it's all over the country.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 54:47

I heard the bureau. You know, hey look, we're, we're off on this, we're off on that, um, and we got people that they, they apply, but they can't pass a drug test, or they can't pass, you know, they're psychological. Or they find out that they got to work 12 hours shifts and they're like oh, I'm not doing that, you know, and they, they stopped, you know, they stopped the process right there. They never show up.

Michael: 55:11

But the officers that me, you have, I got emailed the other day and I always get emails from people either, you know, looking to go into corrections or rookies, and I got one from a lady who was looking to go into corrections and she wanted me to tell her how she could go into corrections but not have to work directly with inmates. So I I don't have an answer for that. You know Corrections is working with inmates. That's what we do.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 55:37

So, yeah, it is, you know, and I wrote a book. You know that Sometimes I'm afraid to publish because of the stuff that I said in it, um, but it's. It's the truth that I get a lot of stuff from like corrections one, you know, um, and there's a lot of good good. You know, uh, authors out there you know, and former officers that that tell it how it is, and I used to use that in my conference calls to tell officers hey, don't poke the bear. You know, officer safety first. You know, um, and that was one of the things. You make this job the way you're. You make the job. You know, don't be like me. I'm not going to be like him. You know, um, we all have to be our own person, but as long as you come in here, give me a respect, he'll give it back to you. As long as you're firm, fair, consistent, you're gonna make it. Don't go in there, you know, being an asshole today and then tomorrow say, hey, y'all see the football game last night.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 56:31

It ain't gonna work for you it ain't gonna work, um, but you know Today's side, today's officers, you know they want to hear it but they don't want to hear it. You know, um, you tell them, say, look man, I wouldn't tell you if I didn't know. You know, um, but it comes from experience, it comes from what I've seen the homicides. I've seen the staff assaults that I've seen. You know glenn talked about that officer getting, you know, um, uh, assault, they're really bad to where. You know, another lieutenant had to retire. You know I was there for that. I was there During that thing. I was at the fci. We were coming out. They said we have a staff assault at the usp. So, boom, we all get over there. And they were um, taking a while by ambulance, you know, and I actually took over, helped out, take, you know, the rest of the shift with glenn and um. You know we worked it, you know.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 57:24

And then you know Something the the bill has, the state doesn't have is we had those crisis management teams that came in to talk with us to say, hey, you know you just went through a Uh, a horrific, you know, ordeal. Is there anything that we could do to you do to help you? You know the state doesn't have that um, and we just had an inmate get beat, a really bad the other day and, once again, don't have enough staff. So the inmates know where to hit these people and you know it's gonna be a little bit before that officer gets there. And then by the time the officer goes in and do those round in that unit, boom, there's a sky laying in the bathroom floor, sure so. So seeing pictures that you know, it kind of Goes back at me like ptsd, you're saying, well, wait a minute, you know you. Just you saw you left that. You know, at a penitentiary now you're seeing to hear, and the inmates know it, you may know or stat where short staff, they know that. You know stuff's coming over the, over the fence every night, you know, because we don't have the staff to watch it.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 58:27

Um, but that's the only drawback of what I'm at now. Um, I plan to do this for, I think, two more years. Yeah, you know, um, and then I'll retire again and uh, but go back to the beach, yeah, we'll do that and and actually try to do what you do. You know, um, maybe, you know, maybe be an advocate for the state. You know, um. Walk around, you know, go to different places and say these are my experiences, this is, this is what I know. Um. So what can I do to help better you, you know, in your job and your training? Um, you know. Listen to glenn, listen the. You know um Ty. Listen to, you know, our bealer, who's I guess he's an advocate right now for the state. Um, he does a lot of that. That's what I'd like to do. You know, I'd like to be in that position where I could train staff to be better at what they do.

Michael: 59:29

Um the yeah, I think this is a great step and I know that you, you definitely have a story. You have experienced that you're Um, get that book written, you know, get it out there to where you can help some of these people, because there's people who are interested in hearing your side of that. And, um, you know, I don't have anything prepared, but in the show notes I will, uh, I will put, uh, you know, suicide line, uh, phone number in there and some information for people that need it. If you're listening to this, you know, go down to the information and can click on those show notes and we'll have some. We'll have some um, information for you. But reach out. I mean that that's what saved you and that people were listening was that you had reached out, um, and I think that's uh, I think what you want to do with the advocacy is just great. It's needed Um and uh, thank you. Thank you for telling your stories.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 1:00:34

So, honestly and thank you for listening, I mean it's, it's one of those things where, like With the EAP, you know this, the play assistant program, all this stuff, I think it needs to be more Out for people to, to, to see, instead of just talking about it once a year. Um, like with your podcast, you know, um, I definitely tell everybody else, hey man, you gotta listen to this guy, you know, and I'm not just saying it because you're, I'm talking to you right now. But I'm.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 1:01:03

I'm always on corrections one looking for different things, and I saw your podcast. I'm like, oh hey, what is this? It's like clicked on it and I started scrolling through it and I'm like, oh hey, I bet these are some interesting you know Stuff going on. Then I saw glam and I saw Mike and I'm like, oh, I know them Well, listen to this. So then I started, I've listed all your podcast was like I think 64, 64 or something like that.

Michael: 1:01:28

Yeah, yeah this will be number 73 when it comes out.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 1:01:31

So I think I got like 64 um. But I've listened to. You know, I've listened to these people talk. You know listen to what Mike has to say. You know he talks about Officer safety, talks about you know working a pose. You know um, you know inmate property, stuff like that. Just just go through it. Listen to him talk. You know, listen to him talk. Listen to him talk. You know, listen to him talk. You know, listen to him talk, because Glenn has some good, good, good pods. He does Yep, and I've only listened to a few of his. Of course I listened to him and Bobby talk, yeah, but I've listened a couple of glands and it's just so awesome that you got in Mike's out there doing his thing. Oh, you know, um, and I think that's good that you know we're doing that and that's kind of like what I want to do and maybe we need more of that. So I think I'm gonna go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and go ahead, and I think we need more of that. We need more.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 1:02:33

You know these retirees come back out and saying, hey, look, let me tell you about real corrections. You guys got it made. You know um, all of you guys got dudes come in here and you're you're glorified babysitters. That's all you are, just answer questions. Make sure the inmates doing what they're supposed to do, you know, get them out the door to work, release and bam. Make sure they go eat, make sure they come back, make sure they clean their stuff up. That's all you have to do. Yeah, that's it. You know you make it. You know, with experience, that we all have we've seen it go from zero to 60 and A drop of a dime. You know um. But I think that's what we need more of.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 1:03:14

You know like you add the the um suicide. You know wine, that's great, I mean it, it's. It's awesome that just little things that we learn and listen to we could take and make it the better. You know um issue and hopefully, you know, with this aca going on, I keep taking the state back home. Listen, look, these are audits and I did. You know everything that you got right here. You see where it says aca and it's got a number. Those are aca accreditation, you know. So maybe they'll look at that and go hey, but this is. This was great talking to you and I'm glad that you know I was able to see your podcast and, you know, actually want to sit there and talk to you about you know different things oh it's been a great conversation.

Michael: 1:04:01

I appreciate it a lot. I want to see you get to work on that book.

Bronner "Bama" Allen: 1:04:05

I want to read them stories you got. This is just a couple pages that I took away. I think it's like you know this thick. Yeah um, but uh, thank you.

Michael: 1:04:18

Yeah thank you so much for being on here and, uh, I appreciate it and, uh, I look forward to talking to you again in the future. It's good to talk to you, baby. Thank you, man. Have a great day you too. Before we go today, I'd like to take a minute to thank one of our sponsors.

Michael: 1:04:34

Omni real-time locating systems is a company that I've been working closely with. I'm proud to be part of this innovative team that has developed the best real-time locating system on the market for your jail or prison. Omni's pre-accompliant real-time monitoring technology is the very best way to track and record the locations and interactions of all inmates and assets through every inch of your correctional facility. Imagine getting an alarm the second an escape happens, or being able to send a medical response the second an inmates heart rate drops. To learn more about omni, go to omnirtlscom. That's omnirtlscom. Omni real-time locating system is the powerful tool designed especially for today's modern correctional facilities. If you haven't done so, please take a moment to like my podcast or, better yet, hit the subscribe button down there so that you'll be notified when the next, when the next episode comes out. Have a great day.