EP:214 From Combat to Recovery: A Vietnam Marine's Journey

As a Marine, you quickly learn that the line between chaos and discipline is razor-thin. That's a truth for my friend and fellow Vietnam War veteran, Samuel Verdeja. Samuel lays bare the road from civilian to combat Marine, revealing the raw transformation under the weight of military service and the trials of Vietnam. 

Our exchange takes you through the trenches of fear, through the baptism of combat, and into the quiet moments where the simple act of making one's bed becomes a symbol of resilience. Join us as we confront the shrouded struggle with substance abuse and the arduous path to recovery, casting light on how discipline can be a lifeboat in the tempest of post-war life. 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

You're listening to Veterans for Recovery, a podcast that unpacks all things recovery within our extended military family. Join your host, retired Major John Donovan, a noted author, lecturer and person in long-term recovery from substance use disorder, as he and his guests will break down current trending topics and research, along with all things recovery related to increasing recovery resilience and recovery capital within our veteran and service member communities. Now here's your host, major John Donovan.

Speaker 2: 0:38

Good day everyone, and welcome to another episode of Veterans for Recovery. This is a podcast that looks at all things pertaining to our veterans, service members and their families, who are in recovery or seeking recovery. I'm John Donovan, a retired Major of the US Army, and I'm a person in long-term recovery. With me today is my guest, samuel Verdeja, united States Marine Corps. Today, samuel and I will explore what recovery means and how it impacts our lives. Sam, welcome and thank you for being on the show today.

Speaker 3: 1:15

Thank you, john, and thank you for having me yeah absolutely.

Speaker 2: 1:18

I am super, super excited to have you with us For our listeners. Samuel and I participate in a show that's called what's Going On. We're both narrators in the show and the show is a Vietnam-themed show that explores that incredible soundtrack of the 60s In my humble opinion, some of the best music that was ever written in the rock and roll genre and what we have done is taken live narration from veterans coupled with video, coupled with still photographs from the 1960s, including photographs and video of things that were going on stateside and on the warfront over in Vietnam. We present that to the audience in a two-hour concert format. It's part musical theater, it's part concert and I think in a lot of ways it's cathartic and healing, not just for the audience members but also for those of us on stage Now. Samuel, you served with the United States Marine Corps in Vietnam. Can you tell us a little bit about the preparation that you went through in getting ready to go to Vietnam as a young Marine?

Speaker 3: 2:41

That is a really interesting question. I think I shared with you that my granddaughter Stephanie is doing for a history class. She chose a project about Vietnam War. Why? Because, of course, she goes to the concerts with me. One of the questions that she asked of me she interviewed me. One of the questions she asked of me is can you tell me about who you were before you went to Vietnam? What did you look like? What did it look like? And it really poses a real challenging question for me, because the person I was before I went to Vietnam.

Speaker 3: 3:22

Average teenager just graduated from high school. Doing what we do best is trying to figure of course we knew everything by then, at that time, at that age and trying to figure out, well, what's our next step beyond school? A week before, after I turned 18, I received my draft letter. Back then they were drafting. It was a draft and I decided I wanted to join the Marine Corps. And what I say during my narration is that it is true I had friends of mine who were Marines. They didn't talk to me. They convinced me to join the Marines because the uniform would make me look cool. But I really wanted to stand out and I joined the Marine Corps and I was not prepared for it. I have to tell you, I was not prepared because I was going to get drafted anyway To be a Marine, because I had no idea. I just graduated from high school, I was still trying to figure out what I was going to do. And when I got into the Marine Corps, I remember the day, the exact day John and I won't get into detail because we don't have enough time I remember the exact day that I became a Marine. I let go of my label of who I was before I went into the military and I remember the exact moment that the drill instructor verbally, he was doing his job, not being abusive, he was doing his job verbally, being highly critical and scaring the, of course, the daylights out of us. We're all just young 18-year-olds and in my arrogance it took me a while to accept being a Marine. But once I got to be a Marine, I got it and I accepted it and to this day I thank him for that.

Speaker 3: 5:05

But then the next step happened is that, after basic training, special training, and then we went on to Vietnam. And when I got to Vietnam, I have to tell you I of course I was scared. I was never afraid, but I was scared. So I went to three steps being a civilian young graduate from high school, joining, being in a Marine Corps boot camp, going through the steps of being a recruit and then being shipped to Vietnam. Had no idea what Vietnam. All I knew is for my friends and what the media and the little I knew about Vietnam. And when I got to Vietnam, I have to tell you that in the first month that I was there I was put into an engagement situation. We were engaged in it. I experienced my first sense of fear. I had never been shot at, never been shot at, and I had never shot at anyone. It became a revelation for me at that point. So those are my three definitions of the before, during and after. And there's a lot of history after that, but we can talk more about that.

Speaker 2: 6:17

So you went through this transformative process even before the crucible where they put the anchor and globe on you at the conclusion. Even before that, there's a moment when the Marine drill sergeant is dressing you down and kind of the last layers of civilian Samuel Verdeja are shed and Samuel Verdeja takes on the persona of a United States Marine Corps member.

Speaker 3: 6:49

Yes, absolutely. And again I remember the moment he stripped. They stripped us of who we were and remolded us and engineered us into Marines. But again I remember that moment. That was real challenging for me because in my mind I left who I was and I got it. I got what he was telling us. If he was telling us, if you're not listening to what I'm saying, you're not gonna come back, you're gonna die. And, more important, you don't matter what we will say, but what you're gonna do is you're gonna get others killed. And that's what got me. He says you don't matter, but you'll get others. You can go ahead and get killed, but you'll kill others, and that's what I don't want you to do.

Speaker 3: 7:33

And that's what I went to be getting on with At least that's mine. And then that transformation I began a whole new role of, by definition of who I was becoming. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2: 7:47

I think that's interesting from the perspective and viewpoint of recovery because essentially we tell people in recovery the same thing and that is the behaviors, the attitudes, the lifestyle, the way that you move, the way that you think in addiction, in alcoholism, that mindset is gonna get you killed.

Speaker 2: 8:13

It's gonna get you killed and you have to take on a new mindset and a new set of behaviors in order to survive. And you know, maybe not as stark as to get other people killed, but I think there's a few of us who might say, yeah, I probably put some of my friends in danger when I was drinking, whether it was getting behind the wheel of a car or other behavior. So there's an interesting parallel, I think, between the resiliency and the mindset of somebody who is going through preparing for war and somebody who is preparing for recovery. Now, that sounds really stark and that sounds really far-fetched. But when you think about it from an attitudinal perspective, when you think about it from a behavioral perspective, I have to shed the layers of the old person and I have to take on a new set of behaviors, a new way of thinking in order to survive in life without booze and drugs. What makes a? Do you see any parallels like that same.

Speaker 3: 9:26

Oh, at the moment that I was going through that transformation process. No, but fast-forwarding beyond being a civilian, being 18 year old, being in boot camp, being shipped to Vietnam, the engagements During our missions and so on, that we just did our job and then we were the processes of transforming, the transformational process. So, no, I didn't think about that then. But fast-forwarding later, beyond in Reintegration process a word I learned later in life the in the reintegration process. Oh, definitely that we had to figure. We were confused, my mind was confused and I shared with you, john, I went through a period of drinking and and and I'm glad I did, because if I had not Not Taking that recovery mindset of Redefining who I was, I would have pulled the trigger, I wouldn't be here today. I readily admit that to individuals like yourself that I trust and Speaking yeah, go ahead, sandals, go ahead, finish your time.

Speaker 3: 10:35

No, no, I just gonna say that that I equate that to Two things, to recovery approaches one recovery of the trauma that I went through in Vietnam they would call it post-traumatic stress and the recovery of Realizing that if I didn't stop drinking, that I would either Get I would die or someone else would die. Yeah absolutely.

Speaker 2: 10:58

I Was talking to a young man who is in recovery and he asked for some Mentorship, some coaching, and and I said, well, I'd like you to go to three to four recovery meetings a week. And he Flinched, you know, and I could tell from his hesitation. He was like you know, I have to go to so many meetings, why do I have to do this? And and reminded me of a time when we were in basic training and we all have this person, right, we refer to them, as you know, the weakest link, the person that you know. They just don't get it and you're like, oh my gosh, I hope I don't have to share a foxhole with this person because they are gonna drag me down.

Speaker 2: 11:42

Well, we had a person like that in our platoon and you know the drill sergeant would come in and inspect the room and you know the old thing about you know being able to bounce a quarter off the bed and, and this guy's Rack just look like dog doo doo, and the drill sergeant just starts going off on him. And the kid asked him a question and the question was Well, drill sergeant, why do I have to make my bed? I'm just gonna sleep in it tonight, and you know, for a second I think we all thought, yeah, why all this insistence on making the bed? But of course the drill sergeant just went off on him like a Insane tiger and the guy was promptly booted out of boot camp and we never saw him again.

Speaker 2: 12:33

But this idea of the discipline, the discipline of getting up in the morning, making your bed there's a great speech that a Navy Admiral talked about to a college graduating class, about the insistence of his drill sergeants and making the bed, and he said you know, the first thing in the morning, we would get up and we would make our bed. We would make it to a certain specification, and if everything went wrong during the day, at least I could say that I accomplished One thing, and that was I made my bed, and then at night I could always get into a fresh, clean bed, and so it was a bookend event. It was like, okay, I did one thing right today and I get to reap the rewards and benefit from it, words and benefits of it. Tonight now, you and I were talking about you didn't see many beds over in Vietnam, did you?

Speaker 3: 13:34

No, you saw a lot of foxholes well, you know, I, like I said within a month that I was in country. You know, back in the rear, they give you orientation, they assign you to a unit and you go on patrols, but you're back in the rear and then they assign you to the unit out in the boonies and that's where you end up for for the life, the time that you spend in Vietnam. And I was with first battalion, first Marines, delta Company, second platoon, and I learned how to sleep in trees, behind a rock, hide in a grass. I learned how to. I learned how to slither like an animal in the terrain and sleeping on the floor and rice, paddy water, and you know it bugs crawling over you and you can't even flinch or blink because there's a patrol going through and your job is not to engage unless you're fired upon and so you can't move. So I learned to sleep in different to this day, john, sometimes people except my family, because they know me by now I will sit on something or do something and I will like be ecstatic about the comfort or the luxury of it. I'm thinking back about when I had to dive into a foxhole or when I had to sleep in a 12 inch deep foxhole by maybe four feet and I'm like maybe five, nine and I had the slitter in there and stay there for protection. You learn how to do that.

Speaker 3: 15:08

So when I give you an example, when I get into, when we rent my wife and I travel or rent a hotel room, I guess I want, first of all, I want my own bed has to be extra large, I want to toss and turn, and so the comfort level yes, I remember I still carry that with me. I want, I want, I appreciate having survived. I appreciate every morning, I think, and I count my blessings every night. It's my first breath. In the morning count my blessings, my last breath. And at night, before I close my eyes, I count my blessings, absolutely. So the bed, the cuts you talked about Occasionally we went to the rear for resupplied in between missions or whatever. Yes, but the cuts weren't all that comfortable anyway.

Speaker 3: 15:59

But, yeah, I appreciate the on and above a lot of people that I am affiliated with, but they don't understand me. Sometimes they think I'm weird, but it's because the way I go about doing things and I'll tell you about recovery, mentioned about recovery I wake up, I go to, I'm recovering. Every day, every moment I'm reminding myself don't look back, don't go backwards, keep moving forward. You're lucky to be alive. I'm lucky to have my hands, my fingers, my feet, my head, my body parts. I am just a lucky person.

Speaker 3: 16:36

I don't wind, I don't complain. Well, I will wind once in a while, but I don't complain. I will never, ever, ever in my life complain about who I am and the path that I'm on. Now.

Speaker 3: 16:49

My recovery is based on faith, and I'm not a very religious person, but it's based. Why did I survive? Why me? I have to have faith in something that's brought me to this point, the reason. Well, I won't question the reason why. I just want to know that I will never look back, I will never feel sorry for myself and I will not allow myself to fall down ever, ever again. So recovery for me is twofold. One, I'm not going to go back to the drinking I did when I was came home from Vietnam to be numb. I'm not going to feel sorry about having, you know, the post traumatic stress, the trauma we went through, and I'm a strong person, john, I'm a very strong person. My values, my morals, with my family, upbringing my mom and my dad, you know, a traditional strong man, a family and so on. He that we are strong, my brothers and I, but that's the only weakness I have is having to recover from post traumatic stress and continue on that recovery and never fall back.

Speaker 2: 17:59

No, it's a was a really profound words and full of wisdom and insights. And the. There's a writer by the name of Paul and he once wrote when I met my weakest, I met my strongest, and what he was talking about was being so weak that he allowed the sunlight of the spirit to come into his place and to lift him up. Sometimes in recovery we say we don't want to shut, we don't want to live in the past, nor do we want to shut the door on it, because we will come to see how our experiences can benefit others. And I think, from observing you and from observing people in the audience of the what's going on show, I see that happening. I see their On the nights of the performance.

Speaker 2: 18:56

When you get up and you and you bury your soul, you talk about some things that are difficulty, emotionally difficult, and you really do put yourself out there. That you're. You're wrestling with your demons. But by wrestling with them it appears, from an observational standpoint, that you are slaying them and you are putting them to bed. But there's also an added benefit, and that is the guys and gals who come up to you after the show with tears in their eyes and a look of a look of recognition. Ignisius, thank you. Thank you for sharing that, because you have given me permission now to talk about that which I was afraid to talk about, and if you can do it in front of audiences of 200 to a thousand people, well then maybe I can start talking about it to my son or daughter or my spouse and I think we've both heard from the spouses. They they come up to us afterwards and they say, oh my gosh, this is the most emotion that he has shown about Vietnam since I've known him. What are your thoughts on that sentence?

Speaker 3: 20:07

You know two things, john. One, when you first asked me to be part of this, it was all new, the concept of music and narration, and I think, I think I did not return your call because I didn't, I wasn't going to do it because I was Didn't what, I was not ready to Expose my demons to anyone else other than selective feel and and I think I I might have said no, I don't remember. But then we kept talking and the more we talk, I, I Embrace the concept in its entirety of this, of the sharing in collaboration with the music, and and it helped me. It has become a part of a healing process for me and it's even more so when I begin, particularly that one story, that one narration, and and I, we do, you're right, we do have the spirituality of that really touches me because I'm scared sometimes when I go, take that first step to go To the microphone and begin it. I'm walking into a bunker area setting and you know I'm scared, you know, because I it takes me back and I'm actually in back in the zone and I'm with my guys and and and for a moment I I'm scared, I'm really devastated by that. But then that's where the emotion comes in Because I know that I'm there, I'm real, I'm a realist, I know that I'm walking in as part of my narration, but I'm also in the zone. And then then when I come out of it and you know, when I come out of it it really hits me hard because then at at the end of the concerts, when the Particularly to get in the wives said my husband I never knew that about my husband, he never talked about it my grandfather.

Speaker 3: 22:00

Now I understand and we're having a conversation from a spiritual point of view not this, not so much the words, is the feeling and the, the connection of that feeling. And for me, the demons constantly, constantly play with me and and it's during that time that the demons come. And you know I'm not a martial arts guy, but you know they teach you to deflect and I, that's what I do, I deflect and and the. I don't let the demons In my space and if they get into my space I deflect them as much as I can. But those concerts, and particularly the, the intimate moments with the little boy, sometimes just thank you, or. But it's not so much the words, john, and you know this, it's that feeling, that connection of that spiritual, special, sacred feeling that we share at that moment, even without the, without the words, and that's what what's so special about that helps my recovery and reminder for me to say this is good, I'm glad you, I'm glad I'm doing it and I'm glad that John asked me to do it, and I'm glad to be part of the. And I say this to the guys constantly I am so glad to be and I'm honored to be, and you know their response to go well, we're honored. Well, I'm honored to be part of the armadillos. Why? Because this process is part of my recovery.

Speaker 3: 23:29

And you know, john, I asked myself that question when would I be if I weren't here, meaning the armadillos and what's going on? What would I be doing? Well, what would I be thinking? This has taken and I told this to my psychologist I go, you've been replaced, he goes. Really, you want to talk about it? I go, no, you just been replaced, he go. Well, I go. Yes, I'll tell you, because I miss Ben, I miss kinds. He goes, this, we talked about that and he goes, that's you know. And he, the more I told him, the less he talked. And then he listened and he just, you know, shook his head and went to the and he really supported me in to continue that. He says you know, you've been blessed with an opportunity for salvation. I go what do you mean? I'm telling you a strategic I'm more of a strategic analyst. I approach it from a strategic. I go. What do you mean? He goes no, you've been blessed. You have an opportunity that many people don't have, many veterans don't have. Your job is to continue to do that, because not only are you affecting veterans, you're affecting the families and the siblings and so on. Anyway, so that you know, I use the word sacred because that's what I define the conversations and that feeling and that connection we have with the audience.

Speaker 3: 24:52

Now, I don't know if you read the email that Stephanie and I were having brunch at Toby's and on the way home on Sunday, there was a family that walked in and they were sitting behind. They came in, they all sat behind a big table, big family, and they described in detail, john, each narration that you and Bruce and myself, the three, the three in there and and the pictures in the back, and they had a discussion with among themselves about how it impacted them. And there were some young people there and and I kind of want to interfere and I just kind of turned around there were some young people. I was impressed at how attentive the young people were because they all have veterans they talked about. Oh yeah, my brother was in Iraq, my brother was in Afghanistan, my brother was in, my grandpa was in Vietnam. They were having that sacred discussion amongst themselves.

Speaker 3: 25:49

Stephanie and I were just like solemn, solemn, and I looked at Stephanie and she was like absorbing all that and in that moment I go. Stephanie has a better understanding of why I do what I do, why I do what I do and who I am as a grandpa and as a person and as a veteran. And she, her and I had a solemn moment, those in fact, on the way home. It took us about a half hour before we spoke once we got in the car and start, because we were absorbed by all that. That recovery process, my recovery process is my involvement with the Fabian Assarmadillos and that's what my psychologist was telling me. He goes, you cannot let go, you have to so and it stays with me.

Speaker 2: 26:41

So that is so cool and we've come to the portion of the show where we need to start wrapping it up, samuel. But allow me for a second to just comment on that. Our pain, our hurt, our trauma, we tend I think we tend to look at it in an isolated sense, that I'm hurting right, it's my pain, it's my addiction, it's my alcoholism, and we take a look at it as rather insular. And the truth of the matter is we're like a nuclear react, we're like Chernobyl, we are leaking radiation and our and our family and our friends around us are impacted, affected by that trauma. Similarly, when we start to heal, that healing radiates also and our family members start to heal with us. Our friends start to heal with us because they see the change and the transformation within us and it lifts them up and it inspires them and we have these moments of connection, like you experienced with your granddaughter.

Speaker 2: 28:03

Samuel, I'd like to thank you for being with us today. It's been a tremendous, tremendous conversation, wonderful wisdom and insight. I would like to thank you for your service to our country, your service to the United States Marine Corps. I'd like to thank you for your service to veterans and the veteran community and what you've done over the six years that you've been with the show, talking to audiences all over Minnesota, sharing your insights, sharing your soul, and you have made us better because you have taken that risk.

Speaker 3: 28:50

Thank you, john. I would do it all over again and just to close, make real big comment. That one is that I've relied on other veterans and I've relied over the years as part of my healing process with my family and I say this very openly that those two have saved my life over a period of time in my continued recovery.

Speaker 2: 29:14

Who are Samuel, thank you. Thank you again for being with us on Veterans for Recovery. Thank you so much for sharing. Thank you so much for bearing your soul and sharing your insight. This was a fascinating conversation To our listeners. Thank you for spending a little time with us to learn more about Veterans for Recovery. This has been a podcast of the Coming Home Well Network. Until next time, be well, think well and do well. This is Major John Donnelly signing off.

Speaker 1: 29:46

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