Financial Planner Life Podcast
Welcome to The Financial Planner Life Podcast. We cover an intimate and honest account of what it’s really like to work in the financial planning profession.
Our guests share their stories of success, failures and learnings, as well as what to expect from a career in the financial planning profession! We host guests at various stages in their careers, as well as multiple roles to ensure that our audience has a variety each week.
Financial planners, business owners, paraplanners and back-office staff all have their own story to share, and The Financial Planner Life podcast is a platform for them to talk about their personal and professional journey. The podcast covers a multitude of topics, from mindset and motivation, health and wellbeing all the way to diversity and inclusion.
We approach each episode with the idea that it is going to educate and spark a conversation within the industry with topics that may not be openly discussed. So, if you are thinking of becoming a financial adviser, or you’re curious about learning more about this brilliant sector, we urge you to give the podcast a listen.
The Host: Sam Oakes is the host of The Financial Planner Life Podcast. since 2008 Sam has been supporting leading national and global financial planning firms in finding the best talent, he was the director of Recruit UK, a 7 figure turnover financial planning recruitment company that he successfully exited in 2024, Sam now works as the Head of Creative for Hoxton Capital Managment, building out podcasts, YouTube and social content for this fast growing fee based international financial planning firm.
Sam has always had a passion for financial services, starting out as a trainer for leading product provider in the UK, he has been in the industry for over 20 years.
He sees himself as a partner to the industry and wants to contribute useful resources such as this podcast to educate those further who are seeking advice and help about how to push their careers forward in this amazing profession.
Be sure to check out
Financial Planner Life Academy - start your career today!
Financial Planner Life Podcast
Unlocking Career Growth: Sean Banks on Financial Planning, Mentorship, and Navigating Career Transitions
Discover the compelling journey of Sean Banks, Senior Financial Planner at Pembrokeshire Financial Services, as he shares his career progression from administration and paraplanning to financial advice. You'll learn why Sean opted to remain employed, emphasising the unmatched benefits of skill development and personal growth within a structured environment.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone feeling stuck in their current roles, offering refreshing perspectives on career pivots and the often misunderstood advantages of moving between employers.
Career advancement isn't just about climbing the corporate ladder; it's about finding the right environment and mentors who can guide you to success.
Sean Banks' story highlights the essential role of mentorship and foundational roles like paraplanning in shaping a fulfilling career in financial advice.
We discuss the challenges faced by aspiring financial advisers and the importance of having a clear career path. Gain insights into how making your career ambitions known to your employer can lead to significant growth, and hear firsthand experiences that underscore the value of internal marketing and proactive engagement.
Transitioning from self-employment to an employed role can be daunting, but it can also open doors to new opportunities and personal freedom.
We explore various career paths within the financial planning profession, comparing the roles of an employee, self-employed advisor, and business owner.
Through personal anecdotes and honest self-reflection, Sean and I debunk the myth that success only comes through entrepreneurship.
This episode provides practical advice on navigating career transitions with courage and clarity, highlighting the importance of self-reflection, community, and mentorship in achieving long-term career satisfaction. Tune in to discover how to transform your career trajectory and find success within existing organizations.
Begin your financial planning career journey today
Whether you are looking to become a paraplanner, administrator, mortgage and protection adviser or financial planner, the Financial Planner Life Academy is for you.
With limited entry-level job roles, giving yourself the best financial planning career education, will not only kick start your financial planning journey with relevant qualifications and skills, but it’ll also help you achieve success much faster.&nbs
Be sure to follow financial planner life on YouTube for extra content about a career within Financial Planning HIT THAT SUBSCRIBE BUTTON!
If you're looking to start your career in Financial Planning, check out the Financial Planner Life Academy here
Reach out to Sam@financialplannerlife.com in regards to sponsorship, partnerships, videography or career development.
And today's guest on the Financial Planner Live podcast is Sean Banks. He is a Senior Financial Planner for Pembrokeshire Financial Services and we talk about career development. When is the right time to go from one employer to the next, what I like to call a pivot in your career? I've gone through this myself quite recently, moving from running my own business to being employed by Hoxton Capital Management. Sean shares his own personal career journey, starting out in administration, power planning, moving into financial advice, why he's chosen to go down the employed road over self-employed, and why that is a really good idea when it comes to your own personal ambition and developing new skills to become the best financial planner that you can possibly be.
Speaker 1:We also question why is it you have to become a business owner nowadays to feel like you are a success? What's wrong with employment? I think you're going to love this episode if you're stuck in a rut right now and not quite sure how to push forward in your financial planning career. Sean, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast. How are you?
Speaker 2:I'm very well, sam, thanks. Yeah, really nice to be here with you. How are you doing? I'm doing really well. Yeah, I nice to be here with you. How are you doing?
Speaker 1:I'm doing really well. Yeah, I'm back from Dubai. So I've got two weeks in the UK now and I'm back out to Dubai again. So it's been a bit of a whirlwind these last few months, without a shadow of a doubt, and the last few weeks have been a bit of a whirlwind, going from running your own business to then working in somebody else's business. It's a bit of a head spinner, whilst also trying to maintain the financial plan of life. But we'll go into more detail about my woes as the podcast goes on, because I think we're both in a similar situation. You've recently moved from one company to another, so we're going to talk a little bit about your journey as well and what led you to that point. But first off, I'll tell you what. Why don't you just give us a bit of an overview of how you got into the financial planning profession, leading up to where you are now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure. So I'll try and keep this brief so it's not so that everybody completely sleeps. I started my career working for Lloyds Banking Group just in a local branch and then eventually I moved on through a friend, ended up working for a pensions administration firm which is now known as Willis Towers Watson. So I started there as a pension scheme administrator and I was there for a couple of years and actually what got me into the financial planning space was initially dealing with inquiries and requests for information from IFAs in my role as a pension administrator. So I did a bit of research. You know what's an IFA, what do they do, how do you become one, etc. I found out the kind of exam routes that you can take and I approached my then employer and said would you support me if I wanted to take these exams? They were all for it. So that was. That was great.
Speaker 2:And uh, once I got the first couple of months in my belt, I then went out there and spoke to a few recruiters how do I get you know to work for a wealth management firm? Ended up going to work for a term in the city initially. Um did a stint there and um, I've been to a couple of other places since then, kind of just moving up the job ladder, I suppose. So there's been a couple of instances where I've kind of reached the sort of peak of what I could do in that role, nowhere to go beyond that at that point in time because I didn't have the experience. So you know, how do you indeed climb the ladder, you know, look elsewhere and yeah, so I've managed to do that throughout my career, I suppose, realize when it's time to make a change and take the step up, if it's not available where I currently was at that time, um, you know, get out there and see, see what's available, I guess. Um, so yeah, a couple of steps up, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, brilliant, so interesting. I put a post out recently about my journey from running a business for 16 years in recruitment financial planning recruitment business to then moving into an employed role working for Hoxton, an international financial planning company, and a lot of people questioned me. They were saying, well, why would you run your own business for 16 years and then go employed? Because it's an employee role that I've gone into and I think it's really interesting because people can often look at movement moving around as being quite negative. Oh, I don't want to. I've got to stay in that job for four years, otherwise it looks bad on my CV. You know I can't be seen to be moving around Now from a recruitment background and looking at the profession as a whole and looking at individuals who've progressed in their career, some of the most successful people that I know have moved from one company to another, to another, to another.
Speaker 1:It's not unusual and it's not detrimental to somebody's career to actually do that, and I call that a career pivot right. So it's all about pivoting in your career, but there are certain things aren't there that can hold us back from making those moves, and one of them we just touched on this idea, this perception that people would look at you negatively for wanting to actually move on and not see the benefits of doing it. So you you in your career have pivoted. Let's just kind of share that with people. Has that experience been a positive experience? Have you improved your knowledge, your skill sets, your perception of the different types of companies out there, how people do it differently?
Speaker 2:Tell us about your experience there how people do it differently. Tell us about your experience. Yes, I'll put some of what I've perhaps glossed over there into some context. So the first role I had at the wealth management firm in the city that a lot of the business that they were doing was mortgage advice. So I joined there as a financial planning assistant or a, I guess, a junior power planner and you got to the stage where the people that I was working for were so focused on the mortgage side of the business because you know, frankly it was, it was booming, so you know they focused their energy on that, which meant there wasn't actually that much work for me to do.
Speaker 2:Um, after a couple of years. So they said, said to me you know, do you want to be a mortgage broker? We can give you the tools here. You can kickstart your career as a mortgage broker. And I had a decision to make, I suppose, was you know, do I want to go down that route or do I want to keep pursuing this idea of becoming a financial advisor, financial planner? So I decided on the latter route, which which meant I was not so much forced to move on, but I felt I had to move on to continue pursuing that ultimate objective and it was.
Speaker 2:It was a pivot at that time because I could have quite easily just gone yeah, I'll stay here, become a mortgage broker, you know and cut my teeth that way, but I just felt at the time it wasn't the right way for me to go. So continued getting experience as a paraple, working for, you know, some really great people. Um, I switched from the work management firm in the city. I went to work for a firm in the south coast and went back into towards London. Um, again, it was too quiet, you know, it wasn't really enough.
Speaker 2:Going on, I felt like I still wanted to develop. Having come from the city firm where it's, you know, very fast paced atmosphere, I felt like I still needed that. So, yeah, gained even more experience as a parapan. And then, after being, this was at Premier in Croyudan where I became an advisor for the first time after being there as a parapanner for six months. So they actually did see something in me that thought, okay, we'll progress this guy. He looks like he, you know he's hungry, he wants it. So, once an opportunity came up, I was fortunate enough for them to see enough in me to progress me and push me into the role of an advisor, and that would have been about six years ago.
Speaker 1:Interesting. So when that opportunity came up, to pivot into becoming a mortgage advisor, that must have been quite tempting at the time, because if you've got people around you, they're out there, they're client facing, they're right in business, they're probably earning good levels of income. Was that quite an internal battle to turn that down?
Speaker 2:I think so at the time. Being young, ambitious, hungry and, like you say, being around all these people who are in and out of meetings doing loads of business, you know, doing great fees, it was an enticing kind of opportunity. Fees, it was an enticing kind of opportunity. However, the other side of that was, you know, 10, 12 hour days, 40 mortgage applications a month uh, I could see how hard the guys were working. And again, coming back to why did I get into this in the first place? I didn't want to be a mortgage broker. You know my, my whole plan was to become a financial advisor. I fail, you know, financial planner ultimately, and so I just came back to that. You know why am I going down this path in the first place? It's not to become a mortgage broker, it's to become a financial advisor yeah, I hear you.
Speaker 1:It's very tempting. I think when you're studying towards becoming a financial planner and you might be an administration role, you might be in a power planner. When you're studying towards becoming a financial planner and you might be in an administration role, you might be in a power planner role. You're not yet cutting your teeth as a financial advisor. You're not sitting down with clients and delivering financial advice, building assets under management. You're not doing the job. And when someone presents something like a mortgage advisor role and you might be seeing other people making quite decent levels of income off the back of it, it might be very, very tempting.
Speaker 1:But one of the things you just pointed out, there they work extremely hard. It is very transactional that type of job, and once you're in it and once you get used to the levels of earnings, it then becomes incredibly difficult to move away from it, because there's a load of people in mortgage roles that would make fantastic financial planners. But the reality is, if you're a good mortgage advisor, you're probably earning 100k plus. And how tricky is it then to move from mortgage advice into financial advice unless, say, for example, you go down the self-employed route, you know and you make that transition. You continue to sell a bit of mortgage, you continue to sell a bit of protection and there is a great opportunity to make that side step in, I guess yeah, there can be a bit of an income trap once you have enough experience in in the profession that we work in.
Speaker 2:So you know, once you've been doing the job for long enough, your earnings are such that you would then be very difficult to step away from that if you wanted to do something else. I've seen that you know a number of times throughout my career so far, throughout my career so far this is going back to my time there being around those guys the mortgage brokers and seeing the work ethic and how they work with clients as well. Being exposed to that kind of environment, I think it really gave me a lot at that time in my career to see how you deal with people, how you manage people through a process and how to be a great salesperson ultimately as well.
Speaker 1:I think the environment plays a massive part in opening up your mind to different ways of working and different work ethic and I think being around sales people I think being around people that are driven to develop new business and being able to sit there and observe them is so powerful they're coming nothing worse than in some sleepy.
Speaker 1:You know you've got low. You're a young guy, you've got loads of ambition right and you're in some sleepy office in the corner having to do the power planning, having to do the administration, almost fighting to get in front of a client just to do a client meeting. I mean that's bullshit, isn't it? And that's just not gonna that not going to motivate any young person, anybody in that early stage of their career, to want to get ahead, especially if they've got aspirations to want to be a financial planner. So I think the whole kind of mortgage and protection environment is brilliant. It's so good to get people cutting their teeth and understanding what it's like to get in front of clients in a way that isn't as deeply technical and maybe as difficult to get in front of people as financial planning might well be right.
Speaker 2:I look back on it and I feel very fortunate that I had the opportunity to spend time with those guys, particularly at that state very early on in my career. I still take lessons that I learned from those days into what I do today, and not everybody gets the opportunity to be around people like that, but I really feel like it has helped me to propel myself to where I am now.
Speaker 1:Brilliant Power planners listening right now who have aspirations to want to become financial advisors. I think there's about 9,000 old power planners out there at the moment. Right, and, funny enough, 75% of those are female. So we've got this. You know this shortage of female financial advisors, shortage of advisors in general, but we can solve that problem with some fantastic power planners that are itching to want to become financial advisors but just might not be in the right environment or may not have the confidence to push themselves forward within that environment to make it bloody obvious that they want to be advisors. Maybe there's not a career development plan in place and maybe you have to push themselves to actually, um, put themselves forward right. What did you do then? So for to? How did it happen for you? Because, as admins, there's power planners. They've been promised to become financial advisors, but there isn't a path. What did you do to get yourself from power planning into financial advice?
Speaker 2:I always made it very clear to anyone I spoke to about my career that I wanted to be a financial advisor, and I think my employers would have, while I was a power planner, were very clear on that, so they knew I'm not a career power planner. I'm doing this as a stepping stone for want of a better phrase to become a great financial planner, and this I see as my, my kind of learning or apprenticeship phase of my career being exposed to client files and doing the research and writing reports and that's all. That's all great. It really gives you a really good understanding of what it takes to to build a, which I think is a great skill to have as a financial advisor. So I think going through the Paraclient route is a great way to do it.
Speaker 2:What it perhaps doesn't do is expose you to the more salesperson style of being in the role of a financial advisor who has responsibility to the firm they're working for to bring in new business, and there are different routes. Ok, so you could perhaps look at becoming a servicing advisor where your responsibility initially is just to look after the clients the firm already has, which can then free up time for more senior advisors to go out and bring in new business. I've seen it where firms have made their power planners the power planners cast status so that they can run review meetings, for example. That can work quite well, but what I would say is, if you can, any power planners listening quite well, but what I would say is, if you can any power planners listening, if you can get an opportunity to join the advisors that you're working with in their client meetings, that would be the number one thing I've been looking at if I wanted to progress into the role of an advisor so you know, let's give some advice.
Speaker 1:Then, what do you think a power planner should do to sell themselves to their financial planner or director of their company? Let's bear in mind a lot of these companies are quite small out there, right. What can they do? How can they sell themselves? How can they position themselves as added value to that client meeting?
Speaker 2:Again, I would make it very clear to the people who would be promoting you into that position that that's what you want. And and look, not everybody wants to be an advisor and it isn't for everyone. But I would say, if deep down, you know that is what you want to do, make sure the people around you know that, because I feel like this is a very supportive community and profession and if people see that hunger and desire in you, they will want to push you forward. So don't be shy in telling people where you want to go and what you want out of your career. And, yeah, add value as well. I think Don't just sort of turn up and complete the tasks that are on your to-do list for today. Be a bit more proactive and add value to the people that you're working with and that will get them talking about you in the board meetings, et cetera, that this is a person that we really should be wanting to push forward and is going to be a great asset to our company going forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, perfect. I think it's all about promoting yourself internally, isn't it? You know we often try to market ourselves externally, but are you marketing yourself internally within your company? Are you talking about solutions? Are you talking about fixing problems that the advisor might be incurring? Or where can we add value? Where can someone add value? Where can we add value in a client meeting? How can we save a financial, a financial planner time? How can we give the client a deeper level of service and experience?
Speaker 1:I think power planners and I'm seeing it at hoxton, the power planners there are also crms, their client relationships managers. They're being trained to take over a huge amount of the responsibility when it comes to client relationship management, and that, to me, makes total sense. You know, you get to know the client on a deeper level. Uh, the financial planner then is able to free up more time to do what they want to do, which is go out and win more business and bring new business in. It upskills the power planner. If they want to be a client relationship focused individual, they start to understand the wants and the needs, they build relationships and as that advisor starts to grow, then they can then pass more clients across to that power planner. So there lies a solution and I think also as well, it gives you that kind of family office feel. You know if you're going in to sit down with a financial advisor, and it's like I'm the financial planner and, by the way, here's your client relationship manager, here's the administrator, here's the power planner.
Speaker 1:All of a sudden I'm thinking, wow, what a great team of people that are going to be looking after me um you know they're clearly a company that's got people behind everything that they're actually doing and it gives the client, I think, that feeling that they've got like almost a family office type vibe and I think that's quite a unique way. So as a power planner, you want to be selling that into the boss, the financial advisor, and putting yourself forward and showing them where the value could be at. And you know, often if you do that and your ambition is to become a financial planner, they'll either go brilliant, let's push you forward, because who's going to stop that, who's going to want to stop that energy of improvement? But one thing you'll notice if a hand comes up and there is a stop, then there's a decision to make. Isn't there? It's like is this the right environment for me? Is it time to pivot?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, you're spot on, because, look, not, not everybody warms to ambition, no, and so again, think about the environment that you're in. Is this a place that's going to nurture my ambition and my talent, or is it a place that's going to stifle my progression? Ask yourself that question, you know, because if you're in the right place, you'll get everything you want.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, you're spot on, Sean. You're a financial planner at the moment. Right, you're a financial advisor. So how long have you been been a financial advisor for?
Speaker 2:so six years ago, um, I was yeah moved on for sort of, I guess, promoted from a power planner role to to an advisor role, went through the, the kind of sign-off process um with you know, my, my then mentor uh, and yeah, took on some, some clients to give me some small, small number of clients, um to begin with I think it was about 20 or 30 and um, yeah, just kind of grown the built relationships from there and and and grown it from there. Really, um, there have been a you know a couple of uh moves um along the way.
Speaker 2:But again, what I would say just quickly, coming back to the point around power planners and how you add value. It all comes down to the relationship that you have with. If you're a power planner, it's the relationship with the relationship that you have with. If you're a paraprofessional, it's the relationship with the advisor that you're working with and the clients. How do you help the advisor build a better relationship with the clients? And that's what I've always focused on, since being an advisor is less so about how clever I can look on the technical side in front of the client and more about how can I build a great relationship with this person and help them achieve the things they want to achieve and you were doing that in a, in a power planner capacity as well, then so, yeah, it's about just doing little extra things that are going to help the advisor build a better relationship with their client.
Speaker 2:So, going back through the previous notes, making some points around, this is what you discussed last time. Perhaps you could think about asking them how this went. Or, you know, if let's say, for example, they were going through moving house, let's say, for example, they were going through moving house, it'll point to pick up on that at the next meeting. Rather than you know, I don't see the role of a parapet as, which is what it is in a lot of places Advisor comes back from the meeting, gives them the notes, please, you know, sort out the file and do a report. A lot of the work can be done ahead of the meeting and that's really only for you, for the advisor in the meeting, and then you've got, you know, less to do, I suppose, after the meeting because you're fully prepped gotcha ambition.
Speaker 1:We talked about ambition a second ago because sometimes people aren't as ambition as others, and ambition can be really positive, but it can also be quite toxic as well. You know, you have toxic ambition. You're, quite by the sounds of it, an ambitious individual. You're always kind of thinking about the next step, the pathway. You're thinking about your future, what it looks like, and you're trying to line things up, trying to work out your route through the jungle as to how you're going to get to what your goal is right. Um, now, when it comes to financial planning, you've got being a financial planner as an employee. You've got being a financial planner self-employed, and then you've got being a financial planner as a business owner. So like running a business and being the financial planner. Now, have you ever had those thoughts, as you're progressing through your career, about which pathway you take in respect of being a business owner, self-employed, or continuing down the employed route?
Speaker 2:yes, um, I've had a lot of thoughts about when or if to make the step towards being a self-employed advisor or starting my own financial planning business.
Speaker 2:I've had many conversations with people to that effect and gone down that path and explored that in quite some detail on down that path and explored that in quite some detail, but ultimately, right now, I've made the decision that it's not the right time for me to to do that.
Speaker 2:I think there is perhaps a perception within our peer group that anyone who's any good at this will start their own business or be, you know, the very least self-employed advisor.
Speaker 2:Um, and I think sometimes, if you are in those circles, you do perhaps feel a bit of pressure to go out on your own, but, especially if you're a young advisor, the thing I would say is you know you're, you're in a peer group. Most of the people are 10, 15, 20 years older than you and they're in a different phase of their life and actually, when you know, the industry was very different to what it is now when they were your age. So I would say and this is a big thing that I've taken away from the exercise that I've gone through to decide my next move don't feel too much pressure from external sources, you know, really go internal and think deeply about what's important to you at this point in your career and be really honest with yourself about what you want and kind of perhaps block out the noise a little bit from people who don't have your perspective I really like that, a bit of deep self-reflection around your own career development.
Speaker 1:What is it that I'm actually searching for? What am I seeking? What am I seeking? Because there is this element of prestige. Isn't there this idea that if I'm a business owner, then I'm succeeding, I'm, I'm, I, I'm doing well in life because I am a business owner? I think when you haven't ever been a business owner, it looks really glamorous, it looks like the thing you should be doing and I think if we go on Instagram, we go on LinkedIn, it's all conversations about being an entrepreneur, building your business.
Speaker 1:If you haven't got a side hustle, you're failing in life. And the grim reality of running your own business is it's hard graft, it's work. You know it's wearing the business owner hat and wearing the recruiter hat or wearing the financial advisor hat is hard graft, because what we don't often think about when we run the own business is you're not just doing your job anymore, you're doing about seven different jobs and there's a huge amount of responsibility. Does it scare you a little bit? Does it make? How do you feel about the opportunities for new entrants coming into the financial planning profession, walking straight into self-employed roles through some of these leading academies. How do you feel about that?
Speaker 2:I think it's a fantastic opportunity if you have the right personality and tools to make it work. If you're not 100% confident that you're going to make a success of it, then you's a. There's a big risk involved in in doing that, particularly if you have little experience. You haven't built a network. Um, you know where you're going to get your clients from. Is it because you?
Speaker 2:don't find it yeah, I I think finding new clients is the is the toughest part of what we do. So I think, really think about if you are going to make that step. I think sometimes when people start out, they think that, okay, I'll get the exams, I'll get a little experience up in my belt, I'll do a few role plays and I'll get signed off and then all these clients will just fall into my lap and I'll be a financial advisor. That'd be great.
Speaker 1:But you know, it doesn't it doesn't actually happen like that.
Speaker 2:Um. So a big part of what we do is networking, building relationships, adding value to other professionals such as, you know, solicitors, accountants and a lot of that is just putting yourself out there and being vulnerable and it's very difficult because we're not really trained to do it. You know, nobody teaches you how to be in a networking environment. Suddenly you're there and you're meeting new people for the first time and you have to start up a conversation.
Speaker 2:Um, but putting yourself out there like that is necessary. It's uncomfortable but it's necessary if you want to build a good business. So yeah, when you're an employee advisor, there are different ways that you can acquire clients, and typically the business that you're working for will have a overall strategy on how they're going to grow. So you might find early on that there are more opportunities actually in being employed. You can build a client bank, get seeded with that it can. You know your employer will help you to build those kind of networks, external relationships, which then in the future would perhaps make it less of a cliff edge for you to go off and start your own thing.
Speaker 1:I think there's so much that you can learn in an environment that's the right environment. Right, because you might have a couple of scratches to it. Some people love the idea of just getting their head down and being a financial planner and just want to be in an environment that's got a good brand, good support, good culture and allows that person to just go out there and be the best financial planner they can actually be, that's all they want.
Speaker 1:But then there are some financial planners who've got an ambition to be, say, a leader. They might want to become a manager, they might have aspirations to be part of the strategy of the business Right. And that's an itch, that's natural for a lot of people, because they want to feel part of something and they have an ambition to be part of something. And it's important that those people don't feel that they have to just leave a company Right, go self-employed to make that a reality. Because I think there is a leap between being an advisor to being a business owner and there's so much that can be learned on an employed basis.
Speaker 1:And it goes back to that idea, doesn't it? It's like is the environment I'm in at the moment an environment that's going to allow me, if I'm honest with my employer and explain what my ambitions are? Is it going to allow me over the next couple of years to achieve the skill set that I want to achieve and I want to learn? And it's weird that the only other option seems to be right I'll just go self-employed and run my own business and go directly authorized or become a part of a network. And it's like, wow, you really are like putting yourself into a really tricky position when you, when you do that, there is a time and there is a place to do that, without a shadow of a doubt. But I think there is so much that someone can do in between to gain the relevant skill sets whilst they're actually employed and add value to the business and work with key stakeholders within business.
Speaker 1:You're then going to pick up valuable knowledge. Like you know, being able to lean into people that have been there, done it, got the t-shirt is a really, really important thing. So when I moved from Recruit UK, I wasn't surrounded by people that were inspiring me. If I'm completely honest with you right, I was running that business. I built the financial plan of life because I was bored of recruitment. I didn't really have anybody that I felt wants to build that business in the way that I wanted to build it. So I've outgrown that.
Speaker 1:So I took my financial plan of life, went and sat on my own. Realized when I sat on my own I don't think I want to be on my own. You know, I don't think I want to run a business on my own, because I actually like working with people and learning from others and I crave discipline. I crave discipline and I crave a leader. I crave someone to be accountable to. Whenever I've been the most successful in my life, whether it's personal or business, I've always had an accountability partner and often when you run your own business, you don't have accountability partners.
Speaker 1:Everything's the pressure upon. You pick the right business and you've got strong leaders and teams around you that all have relevant, different skill sets. You start to become accountable to the team and therefore your knowledge grows so much more and you know where your weaknesses are, where your strengths are, and you kind of fall forward. You know you fail falling forward, but it's easier because you've got people around you that can pick you up and guide you and challenge you and all those things, and it becomes less of the. I've got to run my own business and that can pick you up and guide you and challenge you and all those things and it becomes less of that.
Speaker 1:I've got to run my own business and that's why I went and joined hoxton, because as soon as I walked the door I've got big ambitions. I want to be, grow a big company. I want to be part of something bigger. I want the financial plan of life to be something bigger. But I couldn't do it on my own, so I had a taste of it and I thought I don't want to be on my own. I need people around me. Have you gone through that yourself?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think a very similar experience I felt. I was in a place that wasn't a kind of long-term home for me and where I wanted to go with my career home for me and where I wanted to go with my career. And sometimes things happen along the way which don't quite work out how you expected. And again, it's just about reflecting and being honest with yourself Is this the type of environment that is going to get the best out of me and enable me to achieve the things I want to achieve with my career? And it is about being really, really honest with yourself because, as I say, there's a lot of external thoughts and opinions and pressure, perhaps to go a certain way, like I say if you're any good, you'll start your own business and you'll be successful. A certain way, like to say, if you're any good, you'll start your own business and it'll be successful.
Speaker 2:And you know, the social media stream is is full of that. What you don't see behind that is the hard graph, the late nights, the, so you've really got to have that desire to throw everything into it. Um, but if you're somebody who is still in this phase where they want to develop, learn new skills and grow without having to go full risk on the table. There are other opportunities and there are places out there who will give you that opportunity to grow and develop new skills. If you're good enough, that opportunity to grow and develop new skills, if you're good enough, you know, if you show them that you're capable of making those steps and making that progression, people will want to hire you Because you know companies are always crying out for great people in their business and people who want to be leaders, you know, are invaluable.
Speaker 2:You don't have to be a business owner to be a leader. Right and in fact the best people you know, the best leaders I've come across in my career so far actually haven't been the owners of the business. So I would say that look, put yourself out there, that there are opportunities. You just have to go looking for them. It might even be in your current firm, you know. If you're feeling a bit stuck and it's not really going the way you want it to, you have to talk to your employer, because if you don't have a conversation with that, with them, about how you're feeling, they won't know. Suddenly there's a resignation letter on the table and everybody's shocked and surprised. Um, so it may be that they're willing to open those doors for you, but they just don't know that you want it you're absolutely spot on and I think it's all about that self-reflection piece.
Speaker 1:It's like when you're starting to feel a little bit uncomfortable in your job and your ambitions are starting to take over a little bit, you're starting to get maybe a bit resentful. You're getting a bit fearful about whether or not your career is going to go the right way. Money am I going to be earning the amount that I want to earn? Because that plays a massive part in it, and everyone's like I can't talk about money when it comes to careers why not?
Speaker 1:we want a decent level of income.
Speaker 1:That's why we think going and running our own business is a great idea, because we think that we control the level of income.
Speaker 1:We don't take into consideration the costs associated in time, energy, hiring people, bad hires, marketing, all the extra things that come come with it right. So having that conversation with yourself first of all is big. You've got a really listed inventory all those things that you think are going to go. You know that you're feeling and then have the courage to go and sit down with somebody within your business and say look, here's where I'm at and here's where I think I can add value to the business and this is where I think we can take it. Here's some things I've identified and these are the skill sets that I have that, if I was to step up into them, would help you take your business to the next level. And I think when you have those current, you know, courageous conversations with people that you actually work with, you step outside of the mindset of being a employee and you start to look at yourself as being a value add to the business what I now like to call an intrapreneur.
Speaker 1:You know I've joined I'm going in there not as an employee. I made it very clear. I'm going in there as an entrepreneur. I want to see opportunities where I can add value to that business and I want to challenge the way it currently is at the moment. You know you might bend a few noses, outline and all of that kind of stuff, but for the greater good I'm going in there to add value and I think as a business owner previously who had upwards of 25 people in the business, everybody who was in my business who had that ambition, it was infectious.
Speaker 1:So as soon as I, as a girl called Elena, loved her she had so much ambition right, so much ambition drive She'd sit with me, she'd work with me. We'd talk things through. She'd visualize things in the way that I would visualize them. For a business owner at the time, it was so valuable because I had somebody next to me that could stand alongside me and encourage me. As a business owner, it's like the manage your manager strategy, isn't it? Motivate your manager. For me it's really powerful and you'll be very, very surprised when you're in the business how many managers, how many business owners will respond incredibly positively to it, incredibly positively to it, and they love to be challenged. They love for someone to come with new ideas because it's less in their mind, it's less on pressure upon themselves.
Speaker 1:So 100. There is opportunity within businesses. You don't have to run off and set your own business up. There's a time and a place for it. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to put people off to run their own businesses. You know, go run your own business, but there's a time and a place and have you learn and develop the skills required to do that. Because when you're employed, you're paid. You're paid to play, you're paid to try things out, you're paid to gain experience. There's a guaranteed income for you, and financial security is so important when you are developing and learning brand new skill sets right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maximize the opportunity and don't become a task-based employee Again. You know, if you just want a job and you're just in it for a paycheck, fine, okay, turn up, do your job, do a good job, hopefully. Um, and yeah, go home and don't think about it again. If you're somebody who is on this trajectory upwards and you are ambitious and you do want to progress, don't just think about it as cocking in, cocking out. You know you're there to add value to your employer. You know, when you're in the office let's say you work for a big open plan office the CEO, manager, director, cfo, they're all sitting in the open plan office. Go and talk to them. You know, don't be scared to have conversations with the people who are running the company, because 90% of the people there probably wouldn't bat an eyelid to the CEO if you walked past them and, you know, had a coffee or whatever.
Speaker 2:But I think that's where people do miss opportunities. You know, again, it's networking, it's building relationships. If you do have a conversation with these people in the office, ask them how their day's going, how their weekend was, that kind of thing build a rapport. They'll take notice of that and then, when they're sitting in the board meetings talking about you know who's being helpful, who looks like their going places. Your name will come up in those conversations.
Speaker 2:So again, again, you know, put yourself out there, not just externally, if you're trying to build your, your network, but internally as well. And I think there are massive opportunities, especially now with, you know, more firms consolidating and becoming bigger, there are much more places for people to go in an employed role. And if you are in a situation where you're looking to develop leadership skills and you you want to be involved in the strategy of the company you're working for, more and more of those opportunities are going to become available if you want to grab them yeah, make yourself available, market yourself internally as somebody that actually wants to add value to that business.
Speaker 1:and there's a line to the you aligned to the goals and the values of that business and you want to help it grow.
Speaker 1:That's all employees want to know is that the employees that they have are aligned to their business. They're not going to turn somebody down for being enthusiastic about wanting to grow something that they have. In fact, they're going to be welcoming of that, unless they're ultra controlling people, and in that case maybe that's wrong environment for somebody with a growth mindset. If you've got somebody that's going to put you down at the time, you know, then you're in the, then you've worked out, haven't you? You've worked out the environment isn't right for you. One of the other things I would actually say here is anyone listening? Is that if you are self-employed right now like I was right, and I've got employees, don't think of it as a failure. Don't think, just because you've gone off and tested, just because you got off to be self-employed, worked out that it's actually probably not the right time for you.
Speaker 1:And it's actually quite hard. You have gained incredibly valuable skills and knowledge and experience going down the self-employed route. So when you pivot back in, perhaps into an employed environment, your knowledge and your experience will make you far greater as an employee than you were beforehand and you'll scratch the itch of self-employment and you'll be turning up to the table with a completely different perspective, one of understanding what a business owner has to go through, and that develops a deeper level of respect. And that's what I've got. I've gone into that hoxton. I'm looking at all the leaders in there, I'm looking at ch, who runs the business, and I have a deep respect because it's hard running a business. It's difficult.
Speaker 1:You know, I took a business to seven, seven, seven turnover, the ups and the downs, the sleepless nights, you know you think, oh, it's seven figure turnover. They must be making a profit all the time, not all the time. There are some months when you're thinking Jesus Christ, how are we going to pay the salaries here? You know it's a huge amount of pressure. So for me, going back into an employed opportunity, there's a deep level of gratitude for the people who make that business work and a deep level of respect. You don't look at them in a resentful way. You look at them in a way is how do I add value to that person? How can I make their life better, their business better? How can I add value? How can I be honest and constructive instead of destructive and resentful and self-absorbed? Because those people in the businesses become very toxic and having that self-employment at running your own business, experience and going back to employed is hugely valuable. It's not a failure, it's not giving in. You just need to align yourself to a company that has the right values.
Speaker 1:So I went through it right when I was with recruit uk and as the business was fading out and I was moving on, becoming financial plan of life, I had a deep connection to that business right 16 years. It felt like a piece of me was dying, this worry that if I let it go I'm not going to have a level of income that I was used to and I won't be seen as the business owner sam oaks, and all of that, and I actually went through a bit of a depression. So recruit uk went down. I ended up being depressed for about a month and then I reflect on it and it was like a piece of me was dying.
Speaker 1:There was this idea that that was me, that was my identity. It was so wrapped up in it that a piece of me died with that business. But it was the piece of me that was holding me back from being truly who I wanted to be the ambition meeting, the ambition in my head of where I wanted to go. I had to let go of that old idea of being a business owner and a recruitment company. I had to take financial plan of life away and give it the air and the breath that it needed to actually grow. But then when I stepped into that environment, it made me realize also as well wow, I've stepped into that environment. It made me realize also as well, wow, okay, maybe I need some help here. Maybe being on my own isn't where I want to be, maybe it doesn't suit my personality, and I crave leadership, I crave teamwork, I crave those other people that are ambitious around me, and that was what I was seeking so off.
Speaker 1:I went. But the problem was when I started knocking on doors and I started marketing myself a little bit, my self-esteem was really low because I thought, well, they're all going to think I'm an absolute failure and I'm knocking on the door, cap in hand, looking for a job opportunity. Was I wrong? I was utterly, utterly wrong. No one looks at you in that way nobody. In fact, more people looked at me in a way that I didn't see myself. They saw me as value and they wanted me in their businesses and I was like, oh, that's interesting, that's different.
Speaker 1:And I think sometimes we put this kind of pressure on ourselves that we're never going to be as valuable to somebody else if we leave a self-employed opportunity and move into an employee role. Completely and utterly wrong, absolutely wrong. You have huge skill set and transferring and pivoting is a really powerful thing to do. I mean to let go of this idea that running your own business, if you don't want to do it anymore, is failure. In fact, it's about setting yourself free, breathing into a new space, bringing that value and skill set with you and pushing pushing forward, but with the right people around you. You know what I mean 100%.
Speaker 2:I mean it's about having your ladder up against the right wall and you know you can climb right to the top of the ladder, but if it's against the wrong wall you won't end up where you ultimately want to be. And at different times in our lives we we want and desire different things and it's about being honest with ourselves. If you're running a business, it's a lonely experience and I know that because I work with business owners as clients. You know it can be quite a lonely experience and existence. And if you're somebody who thrives in an environment where there's people around you, you know, guess what getves in an environment where there's people around you, you know, guess what? Get yourself into that environment where there's people around you, because you will bring the best out of yourself, you'll be happier, your home life will be better for it.
Speaker 2:If you're at work and you're miserable because you're doing the thing that you know society expects you to do, because you've been running a business and therefore you should never go back into an employed role, well, you know what's the point. What's the point in doing all of that if it's just going to make you unhappy or you're not going to get to spend the time with the people that you want to spend time with. Um, and yeah, be really, really honest with yourself, because if you're look, I'm in a position now where I just want to enjoy every day. I've been through a phase where I've thought way too much about where is this going in the future. That can make you unhappy, because it's a long road and you should not imagine a hungry person and you've got targets. You want to hit those targets and then you want to hit the next target and you want to keep going.
Speaker 2:But once you get to a certain point, you know there's a point of diminishing returns there, because you know you're climbing this mountain. Once you get close to the top, there's less mountains to go and actually you can sort of look around and think is this it? You know I've put all this work in, I've done all these things and, like you, look around and think, wow, you know I've still got so long to go in my career and I want there to be more to to my day-to-day life than than this. And yeah, it is about self-reflection being really true to what you want your every day to be like yeah, 100.
Speaker 1:I think you hit the nail on the head one of the things I didn't realize about myself. I always thought I was an entrepreneur and I wanted to do things my way right. But in reality, what I crave and what I seek right is people around me to inspire me, to learn off of of and to be part of a team.
Speaker 1:I always thought I was a bit of a lone wolf, right, but it turns out the bit that was missing and the bit that was making me really unhappy was I wasn't part of a group of people that were all working towards the same goal. That is incredibly powerful. Whenever in my life have I linked myself to community for self-improvement, right? I did a 12-step process years ago to stop myself from drinking because I was drinking a lot, so I couldn't stop drinking and I went off to a 12-step group, aa right, I surrendered to it, went in there, but I was in a room full of people that were a community, all working towards the same goal of not wanting to drink and wanting to give up alcohol because it was affecting their lives in a negative way. That was the most.
Speaker 1:One of the most powerful things I ever did was to find those other people who shared the same ambition, the goals that I did, and in that group it did was to find those other people who shared the same ambition, the goals that I did, and in that group. It allowed me to find purpose, identification and support to push myself forward. And it's exactly the same in the workplace for me. I just never allowed it. And then, when I talk about Recruit UK leaving and me pushing forward and the death of it, it was because it was the death of me thinking that I was the most responsible person in the room. I was the most ambitious person in the room, I was the one that had to push things forward, and now I'm leaning into. No, there's lots of other people around me that I can work with and bounce off of and do things that are far greater than what I can on my own.
Speaker 2:You have started a brand new job today. As humans, we yes, yes, I have. So I'm now working as a senior financial planner for a company called Pembroke Financial Services, based down in Brighton, and I'm so excited about it because all the things that we've mentioned about self-development, growth, wanting to go down that leadership path but not being perhaps ready to set up my own business, or maybe actually not even wanting to set up my own business because of the things that we've discussed the lonely existence you know, I want to be around, like you. I want to be around people who are inspiring me every day. Um, and you know I'd like to being on my own.
Speaker 2:Don't get me wrong, but if I'm working towards something you I've played sports in teams all my life it's working towards a common goal with your mates around you. That's fantastic to me, and when you're in an environment where you feel like you are a bit on your own or you're going in one direction and the people around you are going in another, that can be quite a sad place to be, actually, and so it's about aligning yourself with the right people, and that's what I believe I have. I have done now. I've been around the block enough to know, when you know, get that gut feeling about something and when you do get that gut feeling, always follow it, because I think you know we can overthink, we can do pros and cons lists and absolutely conversations with people. Am I doing the right thing? Ultimately, if your gut's telling you to do something, follow it. Would be my advice.
Speaker 1:Fantastic Look. Really pleased to hear that throughout your career you have pivoted, you've self-reflected and looked at the part you play in your career and what it is you're looking for. And then looking at the environment, does it translate? Does the environment feed your ambition? Am I having those honest conversations with those people around me? Am I courageous enough and how do I have enough courage to actually take a step outside of that environment and move into another one? And sometimes that's the only way we grow, and it isn't negative to do that, it's positive.
Speaker 1:So I'm really pleased that you're now in a place where you feel like maybe a bit like me, like you're breathing into a bigger space. So there's a space for you. Now you're breathing into it and it's growing, whereas before I was here I was like I was squashed in my little space. Now I'm breathing and then my space is bigger and I feel like I've got more energy, more environment to work in, more people around me, more growth opportunity and I feed off of that less pressure upon myself, less fingers pointing in at myself, less expectation upon myself, and now I'm able to turn around and lean into others and observe others and getting that valuable support that helps me push forward and I'm excited by that and I'm excited for you on your career journey because it's the next phase and this is the phase, I think, that you makes you go. Yeah, brilliant, it's going to take me to the next level.
Speaker 2:I hope so, and you know again, for anyone who is listening, who might find themselves in a similar place as you and I have done recently, it is about being brave and actually sometimes going against convention and going against the grain and the expectations of people to just be. You know pretty selfish, actually, about what you want and you know what you'll find is, if you put yourself out there, you will find your tribe, so to speak. You will find the people who are going to lift you up rather than want to drag you down, and if you're an advisor, your clients are only going to benefit from that and your career is going to benefit from that, because you'll be there based mentally. You'll bring your best self to work every day, and I think that we all owe it to ourselves to do that.
Speaker 1:Brilliant Sean. Wise words to end the podcast on. Thank you so much for sharing your financial planner life and we wish you all the best in your new opportunity. All right.
Speaker 2:Thank you, sam, really nice conversation. Thank you, cheers.
