Financial Planner Life Podcast
Welcome to The Financial Planner Life Podcast. We cover an intimate and honest account of what it’s really like to work in the financial planning profession.
Our guests share their stories of success, failures and learnings, as well as what to expect from a career in the financial planning profession! We host guests at various stages in their careers, as well as multiple roles to ensure that our audience has a variety each week.
Financial planners, business owners, paraplanners and back-office staff all have their own story to share, and The Financial Planner Life podcast is a platform for them to talk about their personal and professional journey. The podcast covers a multitude of topics, from mindset and motivation, health and wellbeing all the way to diversity and inclusion.
We approach each episode with the idea that it is going to educate and spark a conversation within the industry with topics that may not be openly discussed. So, if you are thinking of becoming a financial adviser, or you’re curious about learning more about this brilliant sector, we urge you to give the podcast a listen.
The Host: Sam Oakes is the host of The Financial Planner Life Podcast. since 2008 Sam has been supporting leading national and global financial planning firms in finding the best talent, he was the director of Recruit UK, a 7 figure turnover financial planning recruitment company that he successfully exited in 2024, Sam now works as the Head of Creative for Hoxton Capital Managment, building out podcasts, YouTube and social content for this fast growing fee based international financial planning firm.
Sam has always had a passion for financial services, starting out as a trainer for leading product provider in the UK, he has been in the industry for over 20 years.
He sees himself as a partner to the industry and wants to contribute useful resources such as this podcast to educate those further who are seeking advice and help about how to push their careers forward in this amazing profession.
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Financial Planner Life Podcast
Jonathon Jay - Why I joined Hoxton Capital Managment as Managing Director of UK Financial Planning - With Your Host Sam Oakes
This week on the Financial Planner Life Podcast, we welcome back Jonathon Jay who first appeared on the podcast 3.5 years ago and lots has changed since then!
This is a special episode for me because I get to announce Jonathon Jay joining Hoxton Capital Management as Director of UK Financial Planning.
This is the first episode in the series I'm calling Hoxton Life! What it's really like working for an International Financial Planning Company.
Join us as we explore Hoxton Capital Management's ambitious expansion plans in the UK and globally. Jonathan shares insights into their innovative technology, the Matrix CRM system, and comprehensive training pathways for aspiring financial planners.
Discover how Hoxton combines cutting-edge tech with talented professionals to disrupt the UK market and attract top-tier advisors. Plus, hear about our media strategy, with internal podcasts and YouTube channels designed to elevate Hoxton's brand visibility and establish it as a leading international powerhouse.
Engage with us for a compelling discussion on the future of financial planning and the exciting journey ahead with Jonathon Jay driving the UK business forward.
Jonathon also shares his journey from Investec to his entrepreneurial venture working alongside corporate finance, ultimately leading to his exciting new role at Hoxton. We'll uncover the immense value financial planners offer to clients preparing for significant life changes, emphasising the importance of early engagement and understanding their financial and emotional needs.
Jonathon and I also dive into creating life-centric financial plans that prioritise client dreams and goals, such as early retirement or extensive travel, rather than focusing solely on monetary gains.
We discuss how building deep relationships and understanding client aspirations can make clients feel valued and secure in their plans. By balancing technical knowledge with personal connection, financial advisors can support broader, life-enriching strategies that lead to both client satisfaction and commercial success. Learn how this approach can transform the financial planning experience, making it more meaningful and fulfilling for clients.
We also look at the emotional challenges new millionaires face after exiting their businesses, and how can financial planners help mitigate post-exit depression.
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With limited entry-level job roles, giving yourself the best financial planning career education, will not only kick start your financial planning journey with relevant qualifications and skills, but it’ll also help you achieve success much faster.&nbs
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And today's guest on the Financial Plan of Life. We welcome back Jonathan Jay to the podcast and I've got some amazing news. Jonathan Jay has joined Hoxton Capital Management as head of the UK and today you're going to find out everything about what we have planned to grow the UK for Hoxton Capital Management. I hope you enjoy the episode, jonathan. Welcome back to the Financial Planner Life podcast. How are you? I'm very well, sam. How are you? Very good, mate. We're both sat in Dubai. Look at that scene.
Speaker 2:Amazing, incredible, unbelievable.
Speaker 1:A bit better than the UK. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, it's been absolutely pissing it down, so I'm glad to be now moving myself to dubai. I think the last nine months of continuous rain has put me off of england forever yeah congratulations. Thank you very much. Yeah, I'm absolutely pumped to be here. I'm pumped to be working, uh, for hoxton capital management and, uh, I'm doubly pumped that you're here and you are working for Hoxton Capital Management as the head of the UK.
Speaker 2:Yeah, really, really excited. It's all happened very, very quickly. It feels like a really good move.
Speaker 1:Amazing. Look, you and I have just been talking for a couple of months, literally right. We know each other for years. You were on my podcast nearly three and a half years ago, right, when you were in Four years ago almost to the day Four years ago almost to the day, right. So that's amazing. And back then you were at Investec. Now you're working for Hoxton Capital as the head of the UK, so I'm absolutely pumped and delighted to announce that as a podcast episode as well. Most companies now just pump things out in money marketing. We release it on a podcast, you know, like a bit different. It's nice.
Speaker 2:It's nice change.
Speaker 1:It's different, isn't it Absolutely Right? Great, I'll tell you what. Let's just go back over what's been happening with you in the last three and a half years, and so the last time I spoke to you, you're working for Investec. What's been going on in the last three and a half years and a half years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so last time we spoke I was, I believe, an associate director at Investec typical financial planner type role. The role had changed, or was about to change at that time, to a wealth planner, which was amalgamating the investment manager, financial planner role into a wealth planner. So I did that and I had a bit of I've always had an entrepreneurial itch that I needed to scratch. So a couple of years ago I got the opportunity to set up my own firm, which I did alongside a corporate finance business. So I've been doing that for the last couple of years massive learning curve. I've learned lots about financial planning businesses and how they operate and you've got to think about strategy and how to sort of put a financial planning business together and think about the future and look across the landscape and see what's happening. Take some examples and and yeah, so last couple of years been a massive learning curve and learning really about what financial planning is and should be in the future. And yeah, the last couple of months has been a bit of a whirlwind I bet it has.
Speaker 1:Tell us a little bit about this corporate connection that you had then. Tell us a little bit about who you were working with, the typical types of clients and the opportunities that come up working with corporate finance.
Speaker 2:Yeah so it's interesting. So I set up the wealth arm of a corporate finance business. So corporate finance is mergers and acquisitions. Corporate finance are effectively the team that comes in, helps you sort of market the business and get it sold, so creating lots of millionaires. Unfortunately, I started my business in October 2022.
Speaker 2:We had Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng's budget, which set the M&A market, caused a lot of disruption and it's been a bit of a difficult time for the corporate finance and the M&A market for the last 18 months. But fundamentally, it's creating millionaires from exiting their business. So how does that work from a finance perspective? Then I think financial planning can add a huge amount of value.
Speaker 2:So if you're introduced to a client really early stage, that in the process of thinking about how to exit their business, what you should do or financial planners should be able to do, and it would add value to anyone that's exiting their business sit down with them really early on in the process, talk to them about what their number needs to be, what their number needs to be for everything they want and need to do with the rest of their life, whether it's around the world, cruise doing things with their family, giving money to family, watching the family enjoy money while they're still alive, finding a new purpose, because that it's a crazy stat. But a very high percentage of people who come out of owning a business end up depressed because they don't have purpose. They can't. It's like if they might run their business for 20 years. That's the sort of where they've found purpose and all of a sudden that's gone and moving from a business that's generating their income, supporting their lifestyle.
Speaker 2:All of a sudden they've got a finite amount of money to live from and the worry about that disappearing is really significant one you have a conversation around what their purpose can be after they exit their business, what their life can look like, their lifestyle can look like, and you map that out with cash flow planning and things like that and really meaningful conversations, but also educating them on what they need and want to do with their money once they've exited and how we manage that out for the rest of their lives and their future generations.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really interesting. Interesting what you said about most people come out depressed. That makes sense. I went for a bit of that with the Recruit UK exit.
Speaker 2:I can imagine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I went down, man like really down.
Speaker 2:That's a very significant change.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's your baby.
Speaker 2:Yeah, really down. That's a very significant change. Yeah, it's your baby. Yeah, um, you leave it behind to people you don't know what the future of the business is. Um, but forgetting that it's your per. The impact it has on you personally, yeah, can be very significant. Yeah, my life revolved around it.
Speaker 1:When you run a business, your life revolves around the business that you run and there's obviously people in it that you get on with and there's things that you were doing and again, like the financials that are associated to it, which is my income source your identity, I think, can get wrapped up in a business really easily and I think it's probably there's a lot of work that can be done with people in that and I think when somebody is selling their business, being able to recognize that there is an attachment to it and what that detachment might impact on their mental health, that's really interesting. So, positioning yourself as a financial planner, not only building out a plan to make sure you get the amount of money you're looking for and what that looks like, but also managing their expectations around their well-being and what might come up I mean that's powerful Financial planning is not about the numbers.
Speaker 2:Well, it was. So if you look at the history of financial services, it started off with financial advice, which is you have this amount of money, this is the product, this is the investment solution, and you sell an investment product or solution. Then it's gradually moved into financial planning. Financial planning is using cash flow to be able to sort of map out what using those products and solutions means for the future. Now I think the next iteration is lifestyle planning, which is deep, meaningful conversations with clients where you draw out what they actually want and need out of their future and that's what you build into the cash flow, because that's what makes the cash flow meaningful for clients.
Speaker 2:How do you do that? Two ears, one mouth, so listening, not projecting all of your knowledge and technical knowledge onto a client and overwhelming them with complexity. You sit and your. Your first meeting should be about your clients and good questioning, asking the right type of questions to make them think about the future we all live in for. Today. It's very difficult for people to think and map out what 10, 20 years looks like, getting them to think about what the future can look like, what they want to do later on what they want to do in retirement or exiting their business, or what they want for their kids and things like that. They're the questions you want to ask, but the skill is to ask it and just sit back and listen and allow them to speak. It's their time, it's their meeting, not ours.
Speaker 1:Do you find you're doing less of the technical knowledge and more of the listening and talk than you've ever? 100%.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%. I was led to believe as I was going through my training, that the technical element was the most important part. Yeah, I don't think we should be sat talking about the technical stuff with clients. The technical stuff should happen in the background. They should understand it. We should explain it when we get to the recommendation stage, but that's further down the line.
Speaker 1:Um, the real value comes from having those conversations with clients if you come across any tech or any strategies or any people that are or adding value to financial planners work, it could be tech, it could be people, anybody out there or anything out there financial plan life oh good, lord, financial next gen next gen in the uk doing a really good job of they're led by a couple of guys who understand what the next generation of vice should look like.
Speaker 2:Hence next gen, and I do believe that the younger people coming into the industry and people who've been around for a long time and are willing to change and willing to adapt and adopt new practices. Yeah, there you've got the likes of nick murray from the us, who's been around for a very, very long time. He's sort of one of the founding fathers of um, lifestyle financial planning and then you've got the kinder institute, which is us and uk based. It might be global, actually, but they're all about listening, the right type of questions. How do you draw the information out of a client to be able to have that impact? This type of thing can be taught, right 100 yeah, it's not something you're inherently born with.
Speaker 2:It's like it can be taught well, I've certainly learned it yeah uh, like I say, I've, my natural instinct uh, being really honest was to pitch to clients about what they should do with their money. I don't feel like I have to anymore. I feel like by this time we get to the recommendation stage, I've showed. The value that, I add, is not through a portfolio, through a product, it's giving the clients their understanding of what the future looks like and making them feel like it is all about them. I think the industry's in a still in a bit of a strange place. The industry still feels very self-serving and all about the industry and how we can get share of wallet and as high a fee rate as we can and maximize, uh, profitability from clients. Yeah, but I personally believe if you do a really really good, meaningful job for clients, the byproduct of that is being commercially successful. Explain that. What does it look like? So if you look after clients really well okay, an clients the byproduct of that is being commercially successful. Explain that. What does it look like? So if you look after clients really well, okay? An example would be People talk about I don't know if clients are out on a golf course.
Speaker 2:They're telling their friends you're not in a pub or in a golf course or wherever you might be talking about what your portfolio performance is or what investment product or wrapper you're using. You don't do that. People typically don't do that client where they're retiring five years early or they retire and they're doing around the world cruise or traveling or whatever they might be doing that really cool experiences or they're doing a sabbatical in their 40s or whatever it might be. It's much easier for them to talk about that to their friends and their colleagues and because there was how are you able to do this, how do you feel comfortable doing this retiring early or doing this sabbatical and traveling it's much easier for them to say well, my financial advisor helped me do it and I feel very comfortable that it's all mapped out and I can achieve it.
Speaker 1:All does that make sense, makes total sense. It's just what's coming back to me is that there was a travel agent that I was speaking to who partners with a financial planner and she's actually within the financial planning business. So it's starting to make sense. Why? Because I was thinking that's pretty cool, that's great.
Speaker 1:People got some money, they want to go on holiday maybe right, but actually there's a lot of people that want to go traveling when they're older and they don't quite know whether they can do it, how they're going to finance it, how they're going to plan it, all that typical type of stuff. But having that ability within, like a business where you can actually pass it over to somebody that would then actually plan out what your two years of traveling might look like, or what having that house abroad might look like, or whatever, it becomes like a dream, becomes a reality and a financial plan becomes a thing. It no longer becomes money enough to pay me so I can sit at home and watch this morning, or whatever, or pay my bills. It becomes an ability to fulfill your dream and a lot of people have a dream, don't they?
Speaker 2:of if they retire, they want to travel and I love that experiences, whether it's travel or bucket list or whatever it might be, it's experiences do you think tying experiences into the financial plans is that something?
Speaker 1:yeah 100.
Speaker 2:What's your bucket list? Yeah, how do we map that out so that we prioritize the things that you really? A great way to talk about is look, if you were told that you had a year to live, what things would you want to do in the next 12 months that would make you leave this planet having done the things you really wanted to do if you, if we were mapping out the next 12 months, what we can do that over the next 10, 20 years but we need to prioritize making sure you actually do things. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. I love that. I just love the idea of the whole concept and the idea of taking it away from being a financial plan to being a life plan.
Speaker 2:Well, you even think of it as a financial plan. Your conversations are much easier. You build better relationships.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because the clients know that you're more interested in them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Not the fees that they're paying you. Less complaints because they're focusing on things that are more in our control. Markets aren't in our control. For example, if you were to say, or a client would say my goal is to have as high a return as possible, it's never an achievable goal because each year you're just moving the goalpost further and further to try and and why do you want to be the richest person in the graveyard? You have to think about how you're going to spend that and have a meaningful relationship with your money.
Speaker 1:I'm not somebody who is, um, naturally academic, right, but I definitely like talking to people and I definitely like opening people up and getting them to self-reflect through also self-reflection myself. I'm quite into talking self-reflectively and then my vulnerability allows the person next to me to open up and the next thing we know we're working on things together and it's like a kind of hand-holding experience and a journey together that you go on. It's really nice. Yeah, for sure, you often think about the technical knowledge, right?
Speaker 2:I mean, you're saying like it's not about the technical, it's about that it still is important right to be able to do so, to be able to piece together advice, and you know, things like inheritance tax, trust, estate planning, certain pension types is very complex. But that should happen in the background. That shouldn't be.
Speaker 1:But can I like I'm just kind of spitballing with you at the moment right, if I was to like align myself to financial planning business that I am at the moment? Sure, I am a head of creative, so I'm gonna get creative here. Different roles, right, not everyone's taken on ahead of creative. It could. I could be like a the person that goes out, develops relationships, has those types of conversations, get somebody excited about the concept of lifestyle financial planning and it introduces them to the financial planner.
Speaker 2:100 yeah, there are firms out there that do it is it yeah? Who does that, then um, should I say there are firms out there. Right, there are firms out there, yeah they do it really really well where they have one of the leaders in the business um well, alan smith is an example.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's said it publicly, yeah there are other examples as well.
Speaker 2:But alan goes out and he is like he positions himself within a sort of business development type role where he's generating interest for his business and he goes out and spends the like does some of the initial meetings, yeah, and he has that conversation, but the financial planners deal with it in the background, the technical stuff yeah, I love that I think it could work really well definitely 100.
Speaker 1:Where I'm coming in with hoxton is to create content. Right, I've become a key person of influence around careers, with financial planner life. But I'm looking at hoxton. I'm thinking, right, well, where do I see myself in so many years' time? Where do I want to be For me? How quickly can I become a key person of influence within a sphere of people that are talking to the types of clients that I want to deal with, right, whether they're retiring or whether they're high net worth business owners, whatever. So I want to create content like a podcast. I want to create content like YouTube to connect with that audience and use it as my authority to get in front of those types of people. But I want to learn how to do that. You're going to have to teach me.
Speaker 1:I can try my best yeah, because I want to learn that part of it, because I feel like I could probably add value in that way, a bit like an alan smith sort of situation. Obviously, alan smith is obviously well, you know, he knows what he's talking about when it comes to financial advice. I just love that piece there. And then introduce them into the financial planning firm sure, I think you already can do that yeah I think so, because it's all.
Speaker 2:All it is is just having interpersonal yeah, conversation and uh, like I say, two ears, one mouth and sitting back and listening and asking the right questions. You can be taught how, be taught which questions to ask and how to get certain bits of information out. You have the skill set to be able to do that.
Speaker 1:Very good, and you're a hell of a UK now for Hoxton Capital, when you're giving me motivation. That's what it's all about. Step on up, mate, love it. Teamwork makes dream work. Absolutely. Technical knowledge is important For a financial planner, for a financial planner, for a financial planner, for sure. Now you were level six when we spoke last. You're now one of the 3% that are level seven, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, CFP yeah, there's about 1,000 CFPs-ish just over 1,000 in the UK out of 35,000 financial planners.
Speaker 1:Is it worth it?
Speaker 2:For me 100%. So for me it's always been the gold standard and the best financial planners I've met in my time have been CFP, because CFP Certified Financial Planner with CISI. It makes you focus on doing a holistic planning job for clients. It's not about technical. So effectively you get a case study from the CISI and you have to put a 60-page report together. You have to build out your own cash flow on Excel. You can't use a cash flow tool, you have to build it all out yourselves. We had about 36 tabs on Excel. It takes a good couple of months to to get through.
Speaker 2:You have to think about that case study from every angle, whether it's life insurance, inheritance tax, pension planning, retirement planning every aspect of financial planning you have to have considered for that client. So it makes you think of things holistically, not the specifics of a certain type of pension contract or the specifics of certain uh, you do have to know those things, but you should have already developed that by level six, um, and by the time you get to level seven. It's it's about actually how you approach client work, um, and it's been the most beneficial for me. So you recommend it 100. I would definitely do it in stages. I wouldn't jump into that from level 4. I would do level 6 first, whether that CISI has a level 6 qualification. Cii has a level 6 qualification to get chartered, but there's definitely it's definitely worth doing at some stage.
Speaker 1:How long did it take you to obtain that?
Speaker 2:level 7. Yeah, so you get 3 attempts. I passed on my second attempt. It is a beast, that's what I would say. I stupidly decided to do it when I just launched my business, um, and it was pretty tough because I had two young kids and was running a business and but some late nights and I would 100% recommend, um, I think steve martin and jackie lockie they both do courses to help you get through it. I wouldn't do it without the support of one of those courses.
Speaker 1:Fantastic, maybe I should get them on the podcast to talk about it. 100%. Yeah, send me the details afterwards. Level seven running your own business. Corporate finance sounds like the last three years has been great, so why join Hoxton if it was going to say, well, yeah, great question.
Speaker 2:So you introduced me to Chris not very long ago. We've been in contact for a long time. When we met with Chris it blew me away a little bit, because I started in international financial services 10 years ago, 11 years ago. I've kept a close eye on what happens in the international market because my personal business plan was in a few years time I'd try and set something up over here. So my plan was to build a proper lifestyle financial planning business in the UK and then eventually try and do something in the Middle East, because I grew up here and I've got experience here.
Speaker 2:I saw Hoxton come up a few years ago but it kind of operated under the radar so I didn't know a huge amount about them. Obviously, the international market doesn't come with the greatest reputation, but a few firms have popped up in the last few years that look like they're starting to change that and when I met Chris I was just a bit blown away about the proposition and what they were doing, the tech that they've got. We've had a number of conversations since and I've seen all the tech and it's unbelievable, I believe. If you so, for me the opportunity has never been about money. It's been about reaching as wide an audience as possible with lifestyle financial planning.
Speaker 2:For me to do that as possible with lifestyle financial planning. For me to do that, it's either own a business or lead a business and also have an impact on advisors and give them the environment and culture and space to deliver proper, meaningful advice. I don't believe you can scale a business without great tech and great people, and Hoxton for me, was a way to kind of accelerate what I was already doing. Chris was completely on board with building a proper financial planning business that was built out in the way that I believe is the best way to look after clients.
Speaker 1:The word accelerate is damn straight. Like that is spot on. Like when I started talking to chris and I was thinking about the things that I want to do in my career and one of those was set up a financial advice business. I mean, you and I were talking about it at one point with some others right, we were. We were talking about it, Knowing what I know about running a business. I don't want to run a business, I find it a bit stressful, right, but there's loads of things that I want to do and loads of ideas that I have.
Speaker 1:Chris recognized that as well and when he explained to me where they were, what the business actually was. And when you look under the bonnet and start to see the infrastructure, the processes, and you're blown away by it and thinking, wow, this is insane, this is amazing. So then you start talking about your own dreams and your own aspirations and goals and all of a sudden they were like bang, they were aligned we own aspirations and goals and all of a sudden they were like bang, they were aligned just came together and I was like, okay, this feels right chris's terminology just get on the bus and we're working out as we go along yep, very entrepreneurial, yeah, which I love, which I love that.
Speaker 1:but what I'm seeing is the ideas that I have and the vision I have by being connected to the financial planning profession through financial planner life in a recruitment company over the last 15 years and the knowledge I've gained from talking to people like you. I have a lot of things that I know that I can implement, that can help businesses on a creative basis, and no one else is doing that and no one else is doing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I didn't want to set that up from scratch. Tried it with Financial Planner Life. When I left Recruit UK I was going to still under financial power live, I could build a really, really good business model, but it'd have forever. I would have forever kind of been spinning plates. Right, I don't mind spinning plates, but in the back of my mind I'd never been able to build a financial advice business, I don't think, unless I'd have partnered with somebody in a little technically. That's what I've done.
Speaker 1:So I've looked at coxton and I've looked at the leadership team. And there's so many good people in that leadership team, right, and I looked at myself and got the mirror out and thought, hang on, I belong in that team, I've got a skill set that I can bring that business. They're a interesting company, they're international, which to me is sexy, is interesting, it's different, right, I think that's another thing, that kind of not calling chris sexy, but like one of those things that kind of drew my attention was the fact that they weren't in they, they, they didn't have a massive presence in the uk, right, he started internationally.
Speaker 2:So there's an international mindset, there's a lot of uk firms that, in my opinion, optimally looking after clients, so they're not doing lifestyle, financial planning and that sort of stuff looking to move offshore, which, if you look at it that way, you're moving from a highly regulated environment to a less regulated environment. For Chris and Hoxton, they're doing it the other way around and moving from a less regulated environment to a very highly regulated environment, which is a really brave move, and a really significant move also means that they're taking things very, very seriously.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And the opportunity for them in the UK, I think is huge. The UK needs a bit of disruption. There's some really good firms in the UK. 100% I don't think there are many doing things at scale for the right approach, so it'll be very interesting to see how things go yeah it does need disruption.
Speaker 1:You're absolutely spot on. I think there's a lot of really good advisors looking for something different and they're kind of sitting on their hands a little bit. But there's a lot of really good younger advisors as well who are looking for that company to get on the bus with that share the same ethics and philosophy, and I think people are not as inclined to want to run their businesses themselves at the moment. Regulation is becoming very tricky and responsibilities is, you know, being a directly authorized firm, people say that's all right, it's easy enough. But I've spoken to loads of people. It's tough If you're a financial planner and you love giving financial planning. Being a business owner is a completely different kettle of fish, right, you've experienced that. There's two sides to this For sure, two different hats For sure, and it comes back to that. If you can create a business, that's the right business with the right people leading it. For example, like you now pushing into the fact that you are now heading up the UK for Hoxton right, you're the right proposition, the right compliance, the right leaders, the right visionaries, the right technology. It's going to be unstoppable and I can't see anybody that has that kind of drive and ambition in the uk that isn't like a consolidator. There's out there just just hoovering them up right. That's the kind of what I see out there at the moment.
Speaker 1:There's a few interesting propositions, but not with the energy and the innovation that I'm seeing within Hoxton, and that, again, was why I got on board. I saw it and I was just like shit, yeah, I want to be on this bus. I know that if I add my skill set to it, I can make it absolutely fly. So therefore, I don't need to try and start a financial advice business on my own. I don't need to try and build my own business because I'm going to get on this one, add the value that it needs from me and learn from an amazing team around me. And I think that was. It wasn't it when I phoned you up and told you because you were checking in on me, which is amazing, because I had a really shit time when I finished that recruit uk, that's right.
Speaker 1:That's effectively where this came from exactly. You checked up on me to see how I was and I sort of opened up and anyway went through the process and you were really that intrigued by the fact that I was going out to dubai to talk because of the fact that you were interested in the middle east. So it was kind of timing wise. It was amazing. But as I was sort of articulating that information to you, you were just like this just sounds so good, this just sounds so right, and instantly it was like yeah, and like you, you saw it, I saw it and it was just naturally. It wasn't like I kind of targeted you, it was just natural, wasn't it?
Speaker 1:you just naturally got on that kind of that vibe and that energy. And now we're in the same same place, we work for the same company, which is pretty cool, mate, bearing in mind that we were talking about running our own business together and now we're here. It's pretty mad when you think about it.
Speaker 2:Life works in weird ways it does. But um, I'm a big believer in timing yeah and if you do the right things and plug away and, uh, just continue to persevere, the right things will come, and this feels really good.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about what the opportunity is, because we want to build out the uk. There's no two ways about it. Right? We're not doing this to to sit still we want to grow and we want to attract the right people into this business. Right, tell us a little bit about what the plans are, just a little bit about the type of people that we want to attract to this business. Who does it suit? Right? So what's the plans? Who does it suit?
Speaker 2:so the strategy for the next few years is twofold.
Speaker 2:One uh, we're going to be doing acquisitions, so we're going to be acquiring businesses in the uk retiring advisors, accidental business owners that are at a point where they're struggling with hr finance, doing all the things that a financial advisor doesn't want to be doing, so creating a home for them that they can kind of back their business into and we can buy their assets and provide a home for them.
Speaker 2:So that's one part, and we need to find really good service advisors to look after those clients that do a really good job. And we've got some really attractive packages for those type of individuals because we want to reward people for really looking after those clients and doing a really good job, because ultimately, we want them to come over from the client banks they currently sit in and improve on what service they previously had, which is enabled by tech and by the sort of proposition that we're going to put together. Then we want to create, like I say, create a home, for there's a lot of employed advisors, self-employed advisors out there who probably feel like they don't fit where they are yeah, either they're employed and very entrepreneurial, generating lots of business, but they're getting a very small slice of the pie.
Speaker 2:For them, we're creating almost like a hybrid model where they can be employed if they bring assets on board, then there's a sort of uh buyout incentive later on down the line, so they will have skin in the game, they will have an opportunity to create some kind of legacy from the clients that they bring across. And then you've got self-employed advisors very lonely existence, still creating that entrepreneurial environment, really high energy, really ambitious business um, with all the right ethics and with all the right approach to looking after clients. It's not going to be a sort of sales outfit, but it is going to be focused on growth and reaching that wider audience with a good client proposition. But for self-employed advisors, giving them an opportunity to come across, work in an environment that they feel aligned with and comfortable with. That's ultimately what we would try to get to.
Speaker 1:It's worth mentioning as well. This is ifa, right? Yeah, we're ifa um. And not to mention also the opportunity to step into international advice. For sure you know it's an international advice business. It's got, um, it's regulated by six different regulators licenses in six different Directly regulated as well. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Not under networks in international space. So again, hoxton, aren't cutting corners by making their life easier, potentially easier, by being involved with a network in Europe or wherever else it might be Specifically directly authorized in those different, and that's an important distinction.
Speaker 1:I think that's a huge opportunity for those advisors that want to go international right, because you can be based in the uk and open yourself up to international advice. You know there's a lot of companies that probably have a whole client bank within it of their clients that have gone abroad. You know they're not servicing them, so there's a huge opportunity for referrals into us anyway from other financial planning companies, right? That's one thing. So if you are listening and you want to refer any international clients to us, get in contacts because we're out for that right and we could do a really good job. And michael yule you know michael yule, the chicken tuesday. I don't know him but I know of him, yeah, well, yeah, everyone knows of him.
Speaker 1:On linkedin with his chicken tuesday posts, so he has a lot of financial planners that refer a lot of business to him. So he does really well on that and he delivers a really great job. But he's based out in France look in the south of France and he's got clients in South Africa, the UK, and he's obviously in the south of France. I mean, how attractive is that? So how many financial planners are sitting there fed up like I was right, pissing down with rain for the last nine months in the UK, thinking do you know what? It's more to life than this? I want to go. I want to go sit in France and service my clients. To be able to do that, I mean that's life-changing.
Speaker 2:For sure. We're actually speaking to a financial planner at the minute who he's got a directly authorized business, potentially looking to sell to Hoxton, but back into and be a part of Hoxton and help push us forward. Amazing business winner. Amazing financial planner. But got aspirations to travel not necessarily live in another country, but to travel and to be able to service clients internationally. Doesn't have to give up his uk client book. If he was to go and do that, he could continue to service them. Um, that's really attractive for people.
Speaker 1:I mean, we're looking at some of the guys that are based in the st albans office. Um, that's where we have an office at the moment, uh, st albans, and we've recently acquired somebody obviously in the mid Albans office. That's where we have an office at the moment, st Albans, and we've recently acquired somebody, obviously in the Midlands, so there's an office space there as well. But we'll get into that kind of geographicals, I think, a little bit later on down the line. But we have ambitions to open offices in lots of different spaces don't we, we do.
Speaker 1:And that's really, really important as well that there are those office-based hubs. And I think that also stems from the dubai office. To be honest with you, you know that culture within that business, that they're in the office, it's an office culture, um, which is kind of like in the uk. It's kind of pushing away from a little bit. But the companies that I do know that have got uk office cultures are doing really really well, like foster de novo that I have on the podcast. They got a a great office culture, self-employed.
Speaker 2:It's really really good office culture. Well, there's a responsibility of the business to create a office environment that people want to be in as well which I'm really keen to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100% Power planners, stuff like that, then looking for those types of individuals, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're gonna build out a big support team. Not sure on ratios at the minute, but one-to-one or one-to-two one power planner per two advisors, something like that, and an administrator or two per advisor. So we're going to build out a big support team. We're just finding out what we're going to do in terms of having a centralized team or whether we actually do one-to-one with advisors A bit fluid at the moment, but we already have some great people on board and coming on board. So, yeah, there will definitely be a big support team. That's available, Fantastic.
Speaker 1:Client demographic-wise. Then what are we hanging our hat on? What are we looking at? I think it's important.
Speaker 2:Look, some firms get very caught up in micro-niching and things like that. I like the idea of being able to service almost everyone that comes to us. I think ideally, the minimum client size would be about £250,000. Potentially, something comes down the line with being able to service something lower, but at the moment probably a 250 000 minimum. Ultimately, you know, we just want to help reach as many clients as possible with the lifestyle approach, um, and with the caliber of individuals that we're going to bring in, I would expect that to increase you know the hoxton uh app.
Speaker 1:I do machine download for free, right for free. You've looked into that. I looked into it. Pretty impressive, built from scratch. 25 tech team in dubai. Right, they're building that from scratch and they're adding more and more and more to it. The value is insane. Um, ambitions to get a million people using that. When I heard that I got really excited because it's free. So, when it comes to that higher purpose approach to giving people financial freedom or financial well-being, helping people manage their money by giving them an app that gives them Wealthflow, which is like cash flow forecasting but they banned the word cash flow forecasting you have to use Wealthflow, which I quite like that Wealthflow being able to see all their assets in one place, regardless of where it is in the world. Um, and build an educational content on there to help people. That to me was like a big purpose goal and I like gap.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that helps in the advice gap yeah, it's not necessarily answering the advice gap and giving people advice, yeah, um, but like you say, if we can do educational piece, that's built into that. Yeah, that goes a long way. Yeah, but just the fact that it's going to be a free tool that people the problem with your financial position. As you get older, you might leave job to job and you've got one pension here and one pension there and you've got a bank account here and a bank account there. That allows you to bring it all together. Yeah, and see it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because otherwise it's out of sight, out of mind, and once you can see it, that's typically when you will take action. People typically take action around their financial position when they get a letter from a pension provider saying there's a change going to happen, or they leave it too late and they're close to retirement before they can actually make a significant change or impact. So being able to visualize it and see where the gaps are and use wealth flow tool to be able to project out their future and see those gaps will give people an opportunity to seek advice when they need it yeah, it's beautiful.
Speaker 1:I mean like the very fact that we're starting to create that now and you kind of think, well, what's that going to look like in five to ten years time?
Speaker 2:but again, no one else. There are examples where people are doing it not as proprietary technology for a financial planning business. So this is all Hoxton tech and the impressive part is you've got the app, but what sits behind it, with the CRM system, with lots of automation, built in AI functionality, lots of really interesting stuff that ultimately makes advisors' job easier. There's not duplication of information and manual data entry and lots of stuff like that. It automatically populates forms. There's all sorts of really really good stuff because financial planners are so bogged down with admin, even when they've got power planners and even when they've got administrators, so you relieve the burden throughout. The team increases your capacity. So bogged down with admin, even when they've got power planners and even when they've got administrators, so you relieve the burden throughout the team increases your capacity, allows you to look after more clients. So for me, that's a really really strong selling point for advisors planners to want to join Hoxton.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I was impressed also with that CRM which they call the matrix yeah, which they built themselves, right. I mean to be able to create a cross-border advice matrix, crm right? That's hard because there's so many moving parts.
Speaker 2:Look, I've grilled the tech team that I've been in front of the last couple of days in terms of what the functionality is between UAE and the UK and they've got everything there to be able to facilitate UK advice. In terms of what the functionality is between UAE and the UK, and they've got everything there to be able to facilitate UK advice. Like you're absolutely right, Not just have they built a CRM system for the majority of their business, which sits in Dubai, it can work in every jurisdiction that they're currently operating, in which, again, if you are an advisor and you are moving jurisdictions, you're keeping those clients in that. So if you're moving from the UK somewhere else and you're going to start building clients here there, everywhere, being able to operate on a single system is incredibly helpful.
Speaker 1:Yeah it is mad. Yeah well, you're seeing the same things that I'm seeing, and that's the reason why you're getting as excited as I am. Again, forward thinkingthinking-wise, they've got a great marketing team. There's huge spend on advertising. That, to me, is an indicator that they are a bullish-type company when it comes to growth mindset, in the sense that they're spending over a million on paid advertising, which I think is pretty cool, and they're getting a return on profit on that, which is pretty amazing and to grow you have to reinvest in your business yeah you have to spend money to make money yeah
Speaker 2:um, and clients don't just rock up at your door and ask you for advice. Yeah, at certain critical mass you will get lots of referrals, naturally. Yeah, um, I think hoxton are definitely the point where they're benefiting from that. Now, speaking to a couple of guys last few days, if you want to continue to grow, you have to spend on marketing. You have to spend on your tech, your back office function, your support teams and, like you say, they've got 25 tech developers. We're planning to put paraplanning and admin support in place in the UK from the get-go, not try and catch up as we grow. We're putting those foundations in place almost straight away to make sure that we've got everything ready for when advisors come on board.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's pretty cool. There's also a big ambition as well, isn't there? To bring on new blood into the business. I mean, I had Jacob on Jacob being the global advisory director for Hoxton what they call the pathway and they've invested a lot of energy and time into taking somebody from zero to hero when it comes to becoming an international financial planner.
Speaker 1:And one of the things that is lacking in the profession at the moment is this kind of trainee route pathway route, if you like that actually pays a basic salary and also delivers training to a high level and a high standard.
Speaker 1:It's not just all about the qualifications, it's actually about the soft skills and the practical skills, which is massively important and massively lacking. I'm really impressed by it. So him and tom goldie both involved in it, and I've sat down with them and looked at ways that we can use my academy, the financial plan life academy, to be linked to it, ways to be innovative around it, how we can deliver the training and development internationally, and what we can do in the uk with these individuals to upskill them and give them those really, really important client relationship building skills as early as we can in the process. Almost prioritize it over the qualifications, because that's one of the most important things you need is the ability to actually build relationships right for sure, and it becomes like secondary in some of these, some of these academies, or it becomes secondary in some of these firms, like you know.
Speaker 1:So I love the fact that as a business, they've seen that as an opportunity, love the fact that they want to do that, because it's only going to add value again to the profession and to the clients and to the whole well-being of everybody within the uk and in the world, because they're an international firm. It also gives a route then, from starting out in the uk to going internationally to whatever place you actually want to go to or wherever their business is. There is a need within the business, but also, if they don't want to go internationally, they can stay in the uk. So then we're talking about like what's called pathway at the moment, where it's like training wealth manager and then you go into like becoming a financial planner. I like the idea of just calling it straight up training financial planner, because who's got a training financial planner roll out at the moment en masse that actually pays a salary as well, because they will pay a salary.
Speaker 2:It's not like oh yeah, unless you're a power planner, that's a trainee yeah well, this is the yeah this is it which is what I was. So I understand the challenges. Yeah, because when we spoke on the last podcast, yeah, um, I explained that it didn't exist. Yeah, and I tried to progress. Yeah, the firm I was at you had to be chartered. There was no pathway, so I had to basically force my way into that role as a power planner.
Speaker 2:I forced my way into meetings, contributed to those meetings, did about 120 meetings with clients, which is where I learned how to deal with clients. Yeah, gradually, and that's what I believe made me a better financial planner. Not the exams, not the technical stuff that was important, but the learning of how to be in front of people again. Another really attractive thing for me with Hoxton is the opportunity to bring new blood into the industry, um profession, and bring them into an environment that I would have loved to have joined 10, 15 years ago and felt at home. That, for me, is very appealing.
Speaker 1:Interesting what you said there about the forcing yourself into meetings when you were a power planner, right? Because when you said that on the podcast all those years ago, I then used to say that to everybody, so that was what I would say. When you said that to me, it just dropped. It was like, well, that's exactly what people need to be doing.
Speaker 2:So I used to say that on every single episode.
Speaker 1:Force your way into meetings, get in front of clients, speak to your manager. How many people can you get in front of? Because the sooner you get in front of people, the sooner you're exposed to that meeting, the sooner your skill set is going to go up. If you're in the wrong place, for sure you know and they're trying to keep you in your place and they don't actually have confidence in you or they have a plan to get you to where you want to get to. So I started using that. It's really really good advice.
Speaker 1:That was, and it's one of those ones that stuck in my head for so long. I could talk to you all day, right, I'm sure that with the stuff that we're going to be doing together because we're going to be building out the uk together I'm by your side to get this hoxton brand seen by absolutely everybody, to get the right financial planners with the right mindset and power planners and other support staff into that business, because we want to grow with the right people. You've got the right vision and the right mindset. That's really really, really important. You know, it's not going to be a place where someone can just go along and just sit there and coast. Uh, we're, we're, we're a growth mindset on both sides.
Speaker 2:So they're going to be servicing advisors, but they're going to be giving lots of clients look after and, yeah, we are expecting them to do a really good job by clients. Yeah, and you know we're not expecting everyone to be business winners. Yeah, that's really important. People have got different skill sets, um, but we want everyone really dialed into looking after clients yeah being ambitious.
Speaker 2:We want to be an ambitious business. I want to make really clear that we are going to do plenty of acquisitions but it's not. We're not a consolidator. We are trying to improve client services. So those clients are going to be transition to hoxton. We're going to try and improve everything that we can for those clients and those relationships, put really good people on on the ground to look after those clients and ultimately try and attract the best, best from the industry and profession and build a great brand you know I want to be involved in that.
Speaker 1:I am involved in it. I want people to know who we are, what we're doing, how we're doing it. Internally, there's going to be a podcast for hoxton. Internally, there's going be a YouTube channel and we're going to be using that to generate business. As I went back earlier, I'm really interested in talking about financial planning with other professional introducers and bring them into the world of our YouTube and our podcast, where they can add value to our clients. Where we might not be adding value, we want to introduce them, whether they're international, whether or not they're in the UK. Like it or lump it, our brand is going to be seen, it's going to be heard and it's going to be an absolute powerhouse. It's going to be the number one international business, jj, and I'm massively glad that you're on board Me too, really, really excited.
Speaker 2:I think we're going to do great things and, yeah, let's see what the future holds.
Speaker 1:Top man, thanks for joining us today on the Financial Planner Live podcast, or what we like to call the Hoxton Live episode there we go Cheers. Cheers JJ.
