Financial Planner Life Podcast
Welcome to The Financial Planner Life Podcast. We cover an intimate and honest account of what it’s really like to work in the financial planning profession.
Our guests share their stories of success, failures and learnings, as well as what to expect from a career in the financial planning profession! We host guests at various stages in their careers, as well as multiple roles to ensure that our audience has a variety each week.
Financial planners, business owners, paraplanners and back-office staff all have their own story to share, and The Financial Planner Life podcast is a platform for them to talk about their personal and professional journey. The podcast covers a multitude of topics, from mindset and motivation, health and wellbeing all the way to diversity and inclusion.
We approach each episode with the idea that it is going to educate and spark a conversation within the industry with topics that may not be openly discussed. So, if you are thinking of becoming a financial adviser, or you’re curious about learning more about this brilliant sector, we urge you to give the podcast a listen.
The Host: Sam Oakes is the host of The Financial Planner Life Podcast. since 2008 Sam has been supporting leading national and global financial planning firms in finding the best talent, he was the director of Recruit UK, a 7 figure turnover financial planning recruitment company that he successfully exited in 2024, Sam now works as the Head of Creative for Hoxton Capital Managment, building out podcasts, YouTube and social content for this fast growing fee based international financial planning firm.
Sam has always had a passion for financial services, starting out as a trainer for leading product provider in the UK, he has been in the industry for over 20 years.
He sees himself as a partner to the industry and wants to contribute useful resources such as this podcast to educate those further who are seeking advice and help about how to push their careers forward in this amazing profession.
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Financial Planner Life Podcast
From Luxury Cars to £63m in AUM, a Financial Planning Career Pivot With Nathan Ind of St James's Place
Ever wondered how selling luxury cars could lead to managing 63 million in assets? Join us for an enlightening conversation with Nathan Ind, a partner at St James's Place, as he shares his remarkable career journey from the motor trade to financial planning via the St James's Place Academy.
Nathan's story isn't just about changing careers—it's about leveraging diverse experiences and mastering the art of building client relationships. Discover how his early days washing cars and climbing the ranks of the motor trade laid the foundation for a successful transition to financial planning.
Learn how Nathan honed his soft skills and practical knowledge at the St James's Place Academy, transforming his sales and relationship-building expertise into a thriving financial services practice. We dive into the pivotal role of emotional intelligence and the academy’s innovative training techniques, which include role-playing and adapting communication styles. Nathan’s insights on understanding client personalities and asking the right questions are invaluable for anyone looking to excel in client-facing professions.
Uncover Nathan’s strategic approach to building a client base, starting with mortgages and expanding into comprehensive financial planning. Hear his thoughts on the power of traditional client-building methods over social media, the benefits of the Business Succession Planning (BSP) model, and the significance of maintaining genuine relationships.
Nathan's story underscores the timeless principles of hard work, consistency, and exceptional customer service in creating a successful financial planning career. Whether you're considering a career change or looking to enhance your client relationship skills, this episode offers a wealth of actionable insights.
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Whether you are looking to become a paraplanner, administrator, mortgage and protection adviser or financial planner, the Financial Planner Life Academy is for you.
With limited entry-level job roles, giving yourself the best financial planning career education, will not only kick start your financial planning journey with relevant qualifications and skills, but it’ll also help you achieve success much faster.&nbs
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And today's guest on the Financial Planner Live podcast is Nathan Ind. He is a partner of St James's Place and today we talk about his career transition eight years ago from luxury car sales to successful partner of St James's Place with 63 million under management, and we keep it really simple and back to basics, and he shares what he did to be such a success within the financial planning profession. You're going to love this episode, nathan. Thank you for joining me today on the Financial Planner Live podcast. How are you, nathan? Yeah, very well. Friend, how are you sir? Yeah, I'm very, very good. Thank you, very good.
Speaker 1:We were meant to meet in Bristol, weren't we, and record this episode, but unfortunately we couldn't. So today we're going to record it in my virtual podcast studio online, which is pretty amazing, actually. So thank you for joining me today, and today we're going to learn all about your journey at St James's Place. You're now a partner at St James's Place, but you weren't always a financial planner, so we're going to learn about what you did before financial planning, how you got into financial planning and really where you are and what your journey was all about. So, yeah, thank you so much for joining me today, nathan. Let's kick things off, okay. Let's just talk a little bit about what you did before you got into financial planning and how you found the financial planning profession yeah, no problem.
Speaker 2:So I I left school um 16 years old, didn't really know what I wanted to do, and ended up actually working in a volkswagen audi showroom um 16 years old. Um worked my way up for the bottom, sort of leave it or not, started washing cars in the Ballot Bay and worked my way up to eventually being a car salesman A few roles in between. So my career before financial services was predominantly selling Audis and Volkswagen Volkswagen Audis and then in the latter years, towards the end, I did four years with BMW.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. So were you a naturally academic type individual in school, for instance?
Speaker 2:No, sam. No Sam, I wasn't really to be honest with you. When I left school I was quite lost. Actually, to be honest, I did it. I had a few GCSEs. You know I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't a naughty child at school or anything like that, I just wasn't particularly academic. You know, falling into the motor trade was and selling you know, let's say, luxury cars was, was purely by mistake. As I said, you know, I started off at the bottom, worked my way up. Luckily, the manager at the dealership at the time saw something in me and thought, hang on a second, it's like I can talk to people and saw something in me and and and and sort of progressed my career into actually selling cars.
Speaker 1:No, not academic at all by any stretch, just just just just talking and just to put it in rapport with people, I guess that's really, really interesting, because a lot of the skills that are transferable to financial planning and the ones I consider to be highly desirable is the ability to build relationships, to be able to sell yourself and sell your services, and talk about a vision, a dream, um, to get someone to buy into you. That's really, you know, massively important, those people skills. So how long were you working in the motor trade then?
Speaker 2:so all my life. So I joined st james's place the academy when I was, uh, 30 years old, so up until going from 16 to 30, I was in the motor trade. So yeah, nothing in between, just purely, purely, purely car sales. There's a few roles in between, interestingly. Um, I did a little bit of a stint in accounts, can you believe, between that sort of age of 17 to about 19, when I was a little bit too young to be selling cars. So they sort of went into accounts, which actually, interestingly, I really enjoyed. I was in an accounts assistant so I was sort of doing day-to-day bookkeeping, which sounds like a bit of a girl's job, but actually I worked with another guy in the office and, interestingly, my mum's got an accounts background, so I obviously got that sort of type of brain as well. But that was sort of just an interim really. And then I sort of started selling cars when I was 19 years old, new and used, so not just new cars, new and used, it was mixed back then.
Speaker 1:That was sort of where it all started to happen really because you decided to pivot in your career at 30 years old. Was there anything in particular that was going on in your life at that stage to make you think about moving away from somewhere? You'd spent all of your working career up to that point?
Speaker 2:yeah. So I, the big thing for me was I really enjoy selling cars and I I enjoy dealing with people, dealing with customers, clients, you know starting it, you know the sales process, right at the beginning that's when clients walk through the showroom, you know, to six weeks later when they pick up their brand new car, and I really enjoyed that process and taking them through that journey. Whatever I decided I wanted to do, moving forward, I wanted it to be you know, customer facing, or the customers you know customer facing and to be, because that's where my skill sets, you know, I believe, lied. But my biggest problem was for me I'm not going to lie I wasn't very good at being told what to do, um. So you know, I come from a very sort of entrepreneurial background.
Speaker 2:In terms of my family, my parents ran their own kind of eating business for 40 years. My, even my, my, my dad's parents ran their own business. They had a collection of um shops, you know, back in the olden days, for big ball supermarkets. So you know, I've always been brought up with that sort of um business background, um, so I've always seen the merits of that. So I've seen the stresses it comes with that um, but I've also seen the rewards that you can get from that as well. So I always wanted to run my own business, of course, naturally from car sales. You sort of think, well, you know, let's set up my own little garage. You know a four-course somewhere with a dozen cars. And you know that was my dream, um. The problem with that is you need an awful lot of capital to go out there and purchase cars and you know, etc. To and set up premises and all those, you need an awful lot of money, which which I didn't have.
Speaker 2:So, you know, I started looking at other avenues and my wife, um, rebecca, she worked at st james's place head office in siren sester and she's at the time and she said nathan, have you thought about being a financial advisor? And I said, well, I'll be a financial advisor. My master's in oak dust, it's not great, you know, I thought we'd have to have degrees and you know all those types of things in that qualification, uh, but nevertheless I thought let's have a chat with someone. So that's when I got introduced to the academy and it was quite sort of um, I guess the first thing that struck me was yes, it would be. You know qualifications, that side of things to one side.
Speaker 2:The job itself, the role itself would be perfect for me. You know speaking to speaking to customers, speaking to clients, you know building trust and planning the client's financial future. I thought, well, that's going to be anything better. And in terms of my personal attributes, I purely you know, I did think, you know, this is what I could do and, of course, at the same time, I was setting up a business, which is my dream, with very little, if any sort of outlay. So that's sort of where the journey began, really, sam.
Speaker 1:Well, that's really great. You know, it's lucky your wife was there working, because you probably would never have really maybe heard of financial planning as a career because it's not sort of pushed, is it? No, especially when we were in school, for instance, you didn't hear about it then, not at all. And interestingly, you just said, like when you think about financial planning, you think I should have a degree, I should be brilliant at maths or finance or you know, all the things that are naturally academic would lead you down the path of becoming a financial planner, which is completely not true. I don't have to.
Speaker 1:It's one of those interesting professions and interesting jobs where you don't need a degree to earn over a hundred thousand pounds a year. You know, it's like one of those jobs, yeah, and it's open to everybody, but you obviously must pass the qualifications. There's a, there is a barrier to entry. It is qualification, so you have to be kind of able to complete those qualifications. Now, interestingly, how did you deal with that when you're not naturally academic? Because, if I'm honest with you, I failed f FPC1 and never, never did any qualifications again. That was three ROs. So how did you cope with that?
Speaker 2:side of it. So I said, excuse me, I think, um, that was the daunting part for me. You know, when I was, when I initially was having conversations with the um acquisition managers from the academy, you know that was my biggest fear, um, and probably Bert, to be honest with you as well. So I went off and I did r01, which is the first stage of your diploma qualifications, which is financial services, regulation and ethics and memory. Um, and I and they, and so I went off and did that and, um, basically, you can pass that, you can pass the rest of them, do it in your own time. They gave me some support material. Obviously at this point I wasn't in the actual academy so I hadn't actually started, but that was the sort of entry qualification that you had to pass. And actually, sam, you know I really surprised myself. I think they say it takes 45 study hours. It probably took me 150 um, but you know I I really wanted this, you know I really wanted it. So I thought I've got to concentrate, you know. So I just knuckle down every evening before work sorry, after work in the evenings and just study, study, study. And it's the same with anything you get out what you put in and I passed it first time.
Speaker 2:I think with RO1, the good thing is, but the bad thing is it's pretty boring, let's face it, because it's regulation and ethics but actually there's no massive exception involved. There's no complicated tax, there's nothing like that. So actually, as long as you can absorb that information and get your head around the financial services landscape, that's all you really need to pass it. So that was the first one. So when I passed that I thought, oh, hang on, a second, I can do this. And I think it helped as well, because at school when you're doing qualifications, qualifications, you don't necessarily know what you want to do. So you know when you know you want to get this and you know you devote 100% to it. And then, of course, moving through the academy, you know you've got.
Speaker 2:Then, once you pass that, I then got into the you know the actual academy itself and then you know all the supports and all everything is there for you to get through the exams. You know RO2, which I think was tax, I don't remember, but ro2 you know. We have people come into the classroom, you know, and you have days where you just talk and study and have lessons on that particular book. You know which was a godsend, because without that I wouldn't have passed them, because once you start going past ro1 it gets quite specific on each subject tax, pension, detector, um.
Speaker 2:But you know you get an awful lot of support in the classroom and you know that was invaluable to me because there's no way I would have passed it and the proof was in the pudding, I think by one exam I passed them all first time. So I always say to people that talk to me about the academy, and lots of people approach me and say you know, can you tell me about it? And a lot of people worry about exams. I say don't worry about them. You know you get an immense amount of support to get through them.
Speaker 1:Brilliant. That's really interesting. So let's focus on this academy then. So, outside of the exam support and the study material that gets provided, there is those soft skills, practical skills that go on within it, the coaching, the running a financial planning business, a part of practice and support you get in there.
Speaker 1:Can you talk to us a little bit about all those soft skills and practical skills trainings, maybe the things that you weren't? So exams okay, okay, you've got to pass them, right, yeah. But then you had the transferable skills from working in in the the motor trade. There's some seriously good transferable skills there, without a shadow of a doubt. Right, and I've spoken to loads of people who've worked in in the motor trade. There's some seriously good transferable skills there, without a shadow of a doubt. Right, and I've spoken to loads of people who've worked in in the motor trade, moved into financial planning and done exceptionally well. So it's a really good transferable skills straight away. But taking those transferable skills and applying it to financial planning how easy was that and what did they teach you in the academy to to make that transition a reality?
Speaker 2:um, I think for me, sam it, yeah, I mean I had an advantage with those transferable skills, as you say. What I say to a lot of people is that you know you get an immense amount of support and I always say my transferable skills was just about fine-tuning those you know to make me compliant. You know and and then you know sort of asking the right questions to clients. You know to understand what their aspirations are, etc. Etc. You know and and and and. That's really where the academy comes into its own, because you've got lots of different, obviously trainers that come in and work for St James's Place. They've been advisors, they've been in the role, they've been in the job and and and they talk you through role play through.
Speaker 2:You know all sorts of. You know interesting, interesting things. For example. You know you know getting to know your own interesting, interesting things, for example. You know you know getting to know your own personality and doing questionnaires about yourself and and understanding. You know clients, different personality types. You know red, green, blue, etc. You know these are all really important things because you get then taught how to read a client. You know you almost can answer their question before it comes out of their mouth because you get that training. It's sort of it's very hard to explain but you almost you get their question before it comes out of their mouth because you get that training. It's very hard to explain, but you get that training to really understand the client and what they're thinking and also you sort of learn as well to become a bit of a chameleon.
Speaker 2:I always say, once you start to understand clients and their different personalities and how they react to certain things, things you can then adjust how you are to think, you know to, to suit that type of client. Which is one of the things that the the academy teaches you very, very well is you know how to adjust yourself to suit the client in front of you. For example, if you've got something that's very analytical, you know straight away they're going to want the detail and you might have to go into a little bit more detail with that particular client than you would with a client who's very blasé and you call them green. And that's what the academy, I believe you know, comes into its own. They teach you those skill sets you know and things like that. And yes, ok for me I was always client-facing, so that was a big help. But you know I, I know people who've come through the academy, who have been um.
Speaker 2:You know I once chapped things to mind. He wasn't on my intake but I I know he was on one after me. He was a coffee machine engineer, you know. So, you know he hadn't had any sales experience or anything like that, but you know he, you know he was able to have a conversation with someone and they and they kind of were able to work on that to build his skill sets. Accountants you know I've known accountants come through the academy, very intelligent people but not necessarily that used to speaking to people, but they still managed to sort of carry on and build a successful financial services practice.
Speaker 1:There's a couple of good things there I can sort of pull apart really. I think there's iq and as eq, isn't that emotional intelligence? Absolutely. You know intelligence and how it's, how it's measured and um with the eq, it can be trained so you can become more emotionally intelligent through training and development and reprogramming your brain to be aware of it. And when you start to understand the different learning styles and someone teaches you about how to deliver something in a certain way, then you can build upon your emotional intelligence. It's like brain training games for iq. You don't actually increase your iq, you don't improve your iq, you just get really good at doing brain training.
Speaker 2:Yeah absolutely better and better at doing it.
Speaker 1:So the eq side is really interesting, and that's one of the things I've picked up about the academy is they spend a lot of time developing the individual through the academy to be able to deliver good financial planning, to recognize ways to position your advisor and solve problems, and that's the emotional intelligence. You gain a lot of that, don't you, when you're doing a client-facing role like selling cars. But you might not gain that so much if you're an accountant where it's kind of facts, figures, boundaries, all's kind of facts, figures, indeed, boundaries, all that kind of stuff, and you're not, yeah, you're not really there unless you're an emotionally intelligent accountant. I'm probably being up accountancy, but you know, you probably find that those types of individuals or analysts or something tend to need to work on their eq, and that's where the academy can be really, really beneficial.
Speaker 1:So you found it almost fine-tuning and learning some extra skills on top of what you'd already had as a foundation. Whereas somebody else might go, I'll smash out those exams, no problem at all. I'll get charted by, you know, in a year, but I need some bloody help on building relationships, knocking on doors and winning some business?
Speaker 2:yeah, absolutely, and I think one of the things that I would do, one of the things the academy are very good at as well. Some side is recognizing where you need your skill sets homing on. So, for example, for me it was more exams as opposed to the sort of face-to-face side of things. If you're acing the exams but your concerns are, you know, kind of facing the side of things, then you'll get more attention in that area. You know it's not one size fits all. The program is, you know, is is sort of molded to suit each individual person, perfect when people go into st james's place and they go into the academy.
Speaker 1:They kind of is sort of molded to suit each individual person, perfect. When people go into St James's Place and they go into the academy they kind of have a deep and meaningful conversation about their future and where they want their financial planning career to go. They look at two options really being a partner to setting up as a partner practice so that's like running your own business and one would be going in as like a financial advisor underneath a partner practice. Right, so you're not running a practice. You haven't got your business owner hat on, you've got your financial planner hat on. But you chose financial planner. How I believed in you, I did yes yes, business owner, talk us through that.
Speaker 1:So you're obviously naturally entrepreneurial, but what was that like going in having to wear the two hats financial planner and partner?
Speaker 2:yeah, so that's an interesting one, sam, and a lot of people ask me that I chose to go down the business route. Two reasons, really. One, when I joined the academy, there was the option to be an advisor, but it wasn't generally so popular as it is now. It was mainly designed for people who wanted to build their own businesses, but, as I said, that has changed significantly in the nine years ago that I did it. So me, I'm a bit, shall we say, sometimes I can be a bit gung ho when I thought, you know, if you're going to go big, let's go bold. And you know what my sort of ethos on it was. Well, you know what have I got to lose? Worst case scenario if things didn't work out building my own business.
Speaker 2:I could then go into a practice, you know, which was made very clear to me at the outset, you know so, um, but I think as well, you know, one of the biggest concerns for me and, as a short, concerns for a lot of people, is obviously the financial aspect of it. You know, you're giving up a salary and for me, a company car and a fuel card, you know. But there is obviously financial support out there as well, um from St James's place, if you are starting out on your own. So there's that side of things which I, which obviously helped me no end and in fact I've been able to do it without the financial support from them. But I think you know, when you look at starting out on your own, I quite often say to people you've got to remember that you're the financial advisor, you're the operations manager, you're the marketing manager, you know you're the, you're the account, you know accountant, you know you're all of these things all all in one um, which is, you know, is, is no, it's quite a tall order. You know it's it's, it's quite daunting.
Speaker 2:But I think, again, you've got to remember um, you're not doing this alone. You know. You've got to remember you're not doing this alone. You know you've got St James's Place, sjp Academy behind you. You've got a PDM, so Personal Development Manager, who's there to help you. You've got a marketing team at Sarancesta Head Office, which is probably about 40, 50 marketers in there. You've got compliance managers to help you make sure you're compliant. You've got all this support, yes, well, it is your business and you are the marketing manager and financial planner, etc. You know you're not doing it alone. You know you've got the support mass jp behind you, which I think is important to to know it's in the early days. You know you're spinning a lot of plates, but you've got the help there with you. You're not doing it alone, but it's worth it and it's like anything, isn't it?
Speaker 1:you get out what you pretend, so 100 and we've got the ultimate guide to the st james's place academy that I recorded with g foot it. Actually that talks about terms one, two, three and four. So if anyone's listening to this and wants to deep dive into that, have a look at that. It's one of our top performing podcast episodes. It's on the youtube channel as well, but I have recently recorded an episode about terms five and six, and five and six is that continuation support when you're actually out there and maybe you want to, maybe you're wanting to get yeah, maybe you wanted to get you know, buy a client book on the internal basis of a retiring ifa, and we can talk a little bit about that in a minute one thing, I just want to let people know when they're listening to this episode.
Speaker 1:Okay, you worked in luxury car sales right 30 pivoted. Eight years later, you've got 63 roughly 63 million under management yeah that's impressive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's insanely impressive. Within that, within that period of time. Now I want to understand a little bit more about that journey, that journey to 63 million under management. Um, I know that we previously spoke, didn't we, and you said you weren't really um a natural networker. Good face to face, no, but not a natural networker in the traditional sense of breakfast meetings and all that kind of stuff so you didn't really do that.
Speaker 1:So what was the first couple of years like? What was your approach to generating business and getting yourself up and running and seeing clients, for instance? So for me.
Speaker 2:You know, I did try the networking side of things and I very quickly realized that sat eating breakfast sort of cold breakfast at 6 40 in the morning was not for me. Um talking to more talk, although, having said that, I know a lot of sjp partners are very, very, very successful networking. For example, olivia, one of my advisors, goes to three a week and she's, you know, does very, very well. But I think you're either a networker or you're not. So for me I had to think about other ways to to attract clients. I one thing that I thought you know there's a big opening for, and that was for mortgages. And yes, mortgages aren't building funds in the management, they're not bills, the most lucrative um in terms of remuneration. However, what they do do is they attract a client. You know it's a client um off the back of the mortgage you can do get referrals, um, you can obviously get remunerated by the life cover and all those types of things. And then, most importantly, in the early days of business, you know it's cash flow into the business. You know you do a mortgage, you get paid on it, you know. So that was my sort of that was my foundation of my business.
Speaker 2:So I went out, you know, started on the state, lot of estate agents, latin agents even, because, don't forget, latin agents speak to people who are selling buy-to-debt properties etc. I spoke to Latin agents sorry, estate agents, you know and just went around friends and family and I really didn't focus necessarily on pensions and investments side of things. I just focused on the mortgage side of things. Because when you do a mortgage for somebody they have to tell you everything. So they have to tell you their income, their liabilities, etc, etc. Any pension provisions they've got. They have to tell you everything so you know everything about that client from the outset.
Speaker 2:And like when I did a mortgage for a client, I very much pitched it that you know I'm not just your mortgage advisor, you know I do mortgages but I'm also a financial planner and what that means is we do this, this and the other. You know, and I sort of welcomed them on board as a client. You know I didn't make it transactional. You know a lot of mortgage advisors do your mortgage, do your life insurance, and then you don't see them again until you need to remortgage or switch products in five years time. So for me I made it very much like you're coming part of the practice. It's not just about your mortgage. We're going to do that today, but I'd like to think of you as a client, so hopefully we can help you in other areas, for example, retirement planning, and I just let's just focus on the mortgage. I make them feel welcomed as a client into the practice. Say, look, you're now a client, you know, just because you might have a pension for us or investment, you are still a client of mine and we'll contact you every year to make sure you're okay. You know, and and that's how I sort of built it really and it sort of, yeah, went from there really.
Speaker 2:And also you get a lot of referrals from mortgages because you know they know friends who might want them and things like that. And and also when I was sort of doing a mortgage for a client, I would say to them look, you know, um hope you don't mind me asking, but if I can help any of your friends or family, whether it be mortgages or anything else financial services related, please do pass on my number. And interestingly, sam, hope I'm not waffling on, but interestingly, I did a mortgage for a client, a young lady, who bought a shared ownership property. I was about a year, in nine months, in out to the academy and um, you know, she, she, I think, the mortgage itself, the remuneration was minimal because it was, it was a shared ownership property. However, she referred me to her dad, um, which resulted in a 1.2 million pound defined benefit transfer pension.
Speaker 2:So off that mortgage, which probably earned me a few hundred pounds, came up, that piece of business which earned me, you know, a reasonable sum of money and the right outcome for the client as well, in both aspects. So you know people poo-poo mortgages and when I came into the industry people said, oh, you don't want to do mortgages, they're a lot of faff for an awful lot of remuneration. And I said, well, yeah, hang on a second, I can't be fussy, you know. And nice to, well, yeah, hang on a second, I can't be fussy, you know. And of course, you know you've got the lights cover and you've got the income protection. So actually when you bolt all that on, you do a hot and rounded job.
Speaker 1:Actually, a mortgage can be a great cash injection into your business in the early days I think you're bang on and I've spoken to some incredibly successful financial planners and all started out doing mortgage and protection sales, um, and built a business off the back of mortgage and protection sales and built a business off the back of mortgage and protection. And there's a lot of people in St James's Place who've got successful practices that did just that. I mean it's a great reduced barrier to entry. That's the way you've got to look at it. It's a reduced barrier to entry. It's a lot easier to do that than it is to go out and do pensions and investments when you've got no experience on it. But the pension investment conversations start to follow on, as you rightfully say, because if you do a proper fact find, you're going to find out that information anyway. So to me it's kind of like a beautiful way for somebody to find their feet within financial planning. And definitely why poo-poo it? It's funny how people do that, isn't it?
Speaker 1:There's such an emphasis, I think, on the investment side that there is other areas of financial planning. That is quite a necessity and I think when we break down protection and all the benefits of what protection actually is just just on an episode with somebody about protection, she's talking about her husband who dies and the benefits of what protection life protection is and why we need it. Because you know we're gonna die and we're also going to get ill, right, and there's a high chance we're going to get ill before we die, you know, and that could be critical, maybe payments out. So those types of conversations, especially at the mortgage stage, is so vastly important because people have got families, haven't they? They want to protect their families. So there's lots of different bits of IHT planning, all that kind of stuff, trusts, wills there's all these different pieces of the puzzle that can be talked about and are quite easy entry points to talk about absolutely yeah, I couldn't agree more definitely fantastic.
Speaker 1:There are other ways to build a business within st james's place. Did you lean into bsp and can you explain what that is?
Speaker 2:yeah, absolutely so. The bsp model business purchase you know it's a great way of almost acquiring an immediate client bank. Obviously, you know you need to be relatively established. You can't sort of walk in one day and buy a business the next day. I did a very small BSP in 2018, I think it was so about three years in 2018. I think it was so about three years in um.
Speaker 2:I sort of found that um and it was great. You know, I sounds that I'd sort of hit a bit of a lull, having a bit of a quiet patch, naturally sort of panicked a little bit. Um, and I I was, um made friends with another SJP advisor just at the road from me, and that's everything I must say. So I'm not wanting to change the subject. You don't just get this support from the academy. You know what you'll find with SJP sounds a bit crass, but we almost feel like one big family. There's also other partners out there who want to help you because, ultimately, they want you to grow, because someone's got to buy their business one day. So you know it's also about support. Anyway, yes, I sort of made friends with a partner just at the road and had a chat with her and ended up buying, I think, about 50 or 60 clients from her. So nothing huge in terms of value and it was great. It was fantastic.
Speaker 2:The bad bit about it was so I saw the minute I signed the contract and purchased the clients, which obviously SJP funds the purchase and the client. There's no outlay for you or the advice for the partner. But as soon as I bought it, typically my business took back off, I guess, and I started sort of getting business coming in naturally. However, um, it was fantastic because there's an awful lot of opportunity in clients out there through no fault of the selling partner. That a fresh pair of eyes, you know, that fresh pair of eyes, a new face to it. You know somebody's got more time to go in and speak to those clients. You won't turn sort of business. It's already there and, as I said, I must stress, it's not a sort of pitfall of the partner.
Speaker 2:That was, you know, servicing, of looking after them originally or who you bought them from. It's just a fact of life that people get busy, you get complacent with clients, sometimes you can overlook things, and I went in there and bought this client bank and sort of went around and serviced them and, you know, pulled a significant amount of or created a significant amount of iaf initial advice fee, um from that. So I think the bsp model is fantastic and I always say to a lot of partners and advisors never be scared to do them. Yeah, it's a bit daunting borrowing money from St James' Press to then purchase this, but you know St James' Press is all well-controlled, it's all well-managed. You know they lend it based on the book that you're buying and I think it's great. You know it really gives.
Speaker 2:I've known a lot of partners who have struggled to find clients. It's really transformed their business model or their business entirely because it's given them that immediate client bank to then go out and, like I said, overturn things that the other advisors missed and naturally, you know, might not have seen that client for a few years because life's got in the way to that client and you've gone out there and things have changed. Might have inherited money, might have sold a business, all those types of things.
Speaker 1:So it's I think that the, the bs, the bsp, is a fantastic opportunity, um, and yeah, it works really well and I definitely don't I love it in mind yeah, fantastic, yeah, and I think in again, sjp, as far as I'm concerned and aware and I speak to people with the bsp there's they're all very different for different people, yes, but they're with you each step of the way through the process of it to help hold your hand and go through it, to make sure everybody looks after, and I guess that's the benefit of buying from the ecosystem as well, because it's tried and tested. You know the clients, you know what products and services they are used to and where they are, and the due diligence part is far easier, isn't it?
Speaker 1:and also as you mentioned, there's the funding element as well. Not everyone can go out and buy a business or even understand how to buy a business, and um, it's there, the support is there, the development's there and the funding's there. So that makes it very, very good and, like you said, some people I know in there have done it. As part of their business model is to buy their businesses internally and they're doing very, very well off the off the back of it. Um, can I just talk? Just, you know there's there's a slog, right?
Speaker 1:I think what I don't like is when people talk about financial planning and give the impression that there's a million and one clients out there that need servicing. We know there's 95 of the population that don't seek financial planning. Right, we know that. Um, we know that there's a great transition of wealth happening. That doesn't mean that everyone's knocking your door down, saying can you give me financial advice? So what kind of mindset, what's the reality and the mindset required for somebody thinking about becoming a financial planner those first couple of years? You know what's the mindset. Is it a slog? You know, what should they be thinking? What should they prepare for and how should they? What should their attitude and mindset be?
Speaker 2:I think, ultimately, as long as you're aware that people don't knock on your door and say, please, can I work? Well, not in the early days, they don't you'll be pleased to know they do eventually, but from referrals. But as long as people are aware that people in the early days don't knock on your door and say, well, I'd like to invest into an iso or I'd like to buy simulation pensions, as long as you're aware of that, then you're absolutely fine, and the Academy may be aware of that before you start. I think as long as people are prepared to roll up their sleeves and go out there and talk to people, whether that be networking meetings, that's your thing. Go out and speak to local businesses.
Speaker 2:And I always say to people what's the best thing you've ever done to me to sort of establish your business? And I say you know, get involved with the local community. You know sponsor things. You know, if you can, if you've got the means to do it, set up an office in your local town. You know, so people see you People. You know you've got that brand awareness, as it were, so you might sponsor something and someone might see a sign above your door or something like that.
Speaker 2:That for me was a big, big milestone in my business, when I left my office at home after about 18 months and went into an office in my local town. That was a real incline in terms of business because all of a sudden there was that awareness. So I think you know that's your question, sam. As long as people are prepared to not sit there and let it fall on their lap, they're prepared to get out there, work for it, find it, market themselves, speak to people you know, then you'll be absolutely fine. Where I've seen it go wrong in the past is where sort of people have come out of the academy even though they've been told at the outset they've got to find time. So they've come out of the academy and they've been told at the outset they've got a fine time. So they've come out of the academy and they've sort of sat around waiting for it all to happen.
Speaker 2:And, as we all know, with any business, that doesn't happen, so um, so yeah, it just and you didn't, you know you sorry, sir, you didn't build your business out of some social marketing strategy, though either did you no, no, no, I mean in in, interestingly, back, um, you know, when I, when I, um, when I joined a colleague's sort of facebook, instagram was a big no-no, uh, because it was very difficult to police back then. Um, so you know, you couldn't put anything on social media. Nowadays, I'd argue I'm not saying it's easy for people these days, I'm not saying that at all but I would probably say it's easier to reach out to people because they've got a whole marketing team at head office who just help your social media, to help you keep safe. You know, they give you pre, pre pre-approved ad coaching posts on social media so you can get really active in instagram and facebook, which is something I have never, I've never done.
Speaker 2:Olivia in my office is very good at it, but I've never done it because I wasn't from that generation of when we were allowed to do it as such. But again, you know that is something that nowadays you know. And again, if you're prepared to do those types of things and and be prepared that it takes time you know rome was a built in a day, that's what they say it takes time, but as long as you keep working and keep plodding along. And when, when one academy pdm said to me once you know sometimes she said to me Nathan, in this job you'll grit your teeth many times, but as long as you keep going you'll be fine. And that was absolutely true. So as long as you grit your teeth and just keep cracking on, it will come good fantastic.
Speaker 1:That's a great bit of advice and that's good. It's good and I'm just pleased that you know you're an example of someone that can get to a good level of assets under management without feeling like you have to do social media. That's the key thing, and I think what can often happen is, especially with younger advisors, they will look at social media being this kind of easy route to getting clients it's kind of again, it's just kind of you don't? You don't feel uncomfortable when you're hiding behind a computer, right?
Speaker 1:No, whereas you must get out of your comfort zone and sit and talk to people and meet people and ask for referrals.
Speaker 1:That's when the magic really does happen. So don't get me wrong. I built my business on social marketing. That's what I do. I'm a mini kind of influencer really. But it took a long, bloody time. And if I didn't have a business in the background giving me a salary, like I was running, you know, I had the luxury of having a business that was bringing me an income in so I could be 100 dedicated to finance to social media. But it took a long time to build a podcast marketing strategy and it's only in year two and three that it started to pay dividends for me. So you know, if you haven't got the money in your pocket, probably avoid social media or make it 20 of your time, not 100 of your time, is my advice.
Speaker 2:Somebody I think with any advertising, whether it be social media, putting maybe an ad in the local parish magazine or whatever, I think you know no one's ever going to ring that. Look at that and go I must ring nathan. Or see that instagram person, I must be nathan. I think it's awareness, that's what it builds. It builds awareness which over time helps, because when you get a referral from somebody, they tell you you must speak to Nathan. What's up? Nathan Ends? I see his Facebook posts or I see his local advert in the parish magazine. It just helps embellish that sort of establishment. Really, if that makes sense, I think that's really all it does.
Speaker 1:Well, listen, word of mouth is one of the greatest ways to build trust, isn't it? You trust? We ask somebody we trust for a trusted recommendation. You know, and that's quite simply how it works. And I think, if you bear that in mind, we are humans. We want to share and help somebody avoid pain, so we're going to, we're going to share them with somebody that's helped us, and that's the that's the key thing. That's why I always ask for the referral, because someone's bound to go yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll give you a referral.
Speaker 2:They always do absolutely okay.
Speaker 1:So what about? What about hiring into your partner practice? So you got to a stage where you're building your business, you're getting really busy, so you're thinking to yourself, well, I'm going to hire some people into my practice. You've mentioned olivia. So how did that affect the growth of your business? Did hiring people into it, um, take it to the next stage, the next level. Was that natural to you, and did st james's place help you with that as well?
Speaker 2:yeah, absolutely. I mean, taking on staff is very daunting because you've not just got, honestly, the outlay of the monthly costs, you've also got a HR side of things. You've got the payroll side of things. Sjp help you very much with the HR side of things, so they'll give you the contracts, they'll help you employ and keep you safe and so that's all brilliant. Employing somebody and it was the best thing I ever did and I wish I'd done it sooner. Really, to be honest with you, you know I so getting advisors for the minute.
Speaker 2:It was when I took on my first admin. You know, because obviously in the early days I used to do my own admin. Taking on that and administrating to the practice just freed me up no end, relieved a lot of stress and it just meant that I could keep going, go out there and see more clients, as opposed to hiding behind my desk doing paperwork. You know, and I know a lot of partners who come into the academy and they're too scared to take on admin. They all, yeah, but what if I go quiet? I've still got to pay them. I say, just do it, because you know, not straight away, it frees you up to go and see clients and the more people you see, the more referrals you'll get and more business you'll write. It's as simple as that. Obviously my business, as you said it is, grew, you know, to 62, 63 million now.
Speaker 2:Um, I obviously had to start taking on advisors because I couldn't look after all these clients on my own. Um, and all of my advisors I've taken on um, olivia and reese and before ol, tom. Let's talk about Tom actually. So Tom joined me when I was in year three and Tom started with me again. He used to work in car sales. He went through the academy as an advisor to join me and Tom started off very much like me, doing mortgages, helping me serve his clients. And Tom grew and he eventually went on his own to start his own partner practice in St James's Place, which I was very proud of for him. But in terms of my two advisors at the moment they've both come through the academy and it just yes, it's that initial outlay, you've got salaries to pay and etc. So you get that sort of bit of a lull in terms of cash flow but nevertheless, you know, now they're both out of the academy, they're right in business.
Speaker 2:You, you know I will deal with any client. But the beauty for me is, if it isn't, if it is a smaller client with a smaller investment, I would still love to deal with them. But let's face it, you can't do everything. I've still got plans to service and new business to write. Now I can pass that on to clients. I pass it on to the advisors. For example, you know reese and olivia come from the mortgage world as well. You know we're still doing a lot of mortgages which could set business off the back of it. You know business that I might turn down because I haven't got the time to do I can pass on to them as well. So that's the best outcome for the client in that respect and obviously the best outcome to the business. So I think ultimately, you know we're in a very, very fortunate position as partners that we can.
Speaker 2:Sjp will take these people through the academy for us fully funded, which is not cheap, you know we don't have to pay for that. Sjp will fully fund them for the academy. We get handed, you know, an advisor which is fully competent, compliant, safe. Okay, there's still some work to do with them, you know, but you know we get handed that and then go into the practice to then help grow our business. Yes, I think you've got to decide where you want to go and how big you want to get. I don't want to get too big and too corporate, but conversely, at the same time I want to make sure all of our 600 our clients are looked after, and I need to I need to, you know, to help my two advisors in my pss staff to do that.
Speaker 1:Nathan, that's great. Thanks so much for giving us a breakdown on that, because I think there's a lot of people thinking about going into St James's Place and just how they can build their business and how they can lean into the academy. Let's talk about the future then, nathan. So you know you've built your business. You're an entrepreneurial individual. Yeah, you've taken on staff. You've got those assets under management. Sounds like you're doing really great. Sounds like you've got a really great business. You said you haven't got aspirations to be too big to corporate. So that's massive corporate. So what does the future look like to you? What does the next say five years look like to Nathan?
Speaker 2:um, I think for me, um, it's a very interesting question. I've got a hard one answer. Lots of things go through my mind in terms of how I see the business over the next five years. I think, personally, the business is just going to naturally grow. I don't think you can have control over that, because the only way you can draw a line in the sanitary don is definitely bigger. It's not right to see more business and not take on any more clients. Naturally, more clients are hopefully going to come on board through me, reese and olivia. So I think actually the answer to your question is it's, it's going to grow, but I think that's just natural, natural growth.
Speaker 2:The only way that I could draw a line in the sand and say I want to just stay with two advisors and three admin um is if you get to the point then where you then start taking on clients and you get too many clients again and then you have to then sort of you get to the point then where you then start taking on clients and you get too many clients again and then you have to then sort of do the BSP model and perhaps pass some of those clients over.
Speaker 2:So we never practice, you know. So we never practice to purchase those. That's, I think, the only way you can draw a line in the sand. I think to me that would be a very hard thing to do because, you know, sort of passing a client on to somebody else with a PSP model for me is quite a difficult thing to do. So, naturally, I think ultimately it's going to grow because you have to take on the advisors to service the clients, etc, etc. And on the off the back of that you've got to take on the PSS to service the clients I'm sorry to support us with the administration and so it's just an evolving thing really. I think when I get to the point where I think, my goodness, I can't do this anymore, then I'll pass the baton on to somebody else, but until then I think it's just going to keep going in the same direction.
Speaker 1:It's been going for the last eight, nine years what do you think 30 year old nathan would think of nathan today?
Speaker 2:um, I'm quite a sort of I don't really sort of think about it too much. Um, sam, to be honest with you, I'm very proud of what I've achieved, don't get me wrong. But also I don't take compliments very well, I sort of just think, oh well, I've just, yeah, I've just done what I've done. And you know, I'm not sure cancer or anything like that. But yeah, all joking aside, when I take a step back, you know it is, it's gone like that and it's been quite remarkable. Um, it has been very remarkable. You know, sometimes when I look at, you know, 63, I think we might even be at 64 million in the management. Now I look at that, I go blimey, what a huge responsibility. Um, which it is, uh, but it's just, you know it's not.
Speaker 2:I've not been, I've not done anything clever. You know I've not done anything clever. You know I've not done anything clever. You know a lot of people say to me how have you done it? I say, you know, especially in eight years, and I say, well, all I've done is work hard. And the most important one for me is look after the client. You know, look after the client, do what you say you're going to do, provide great customer service. And you know, when you're with clients, you know, do the best by them and look after them, and if you do that you'll get referrals. If you get referrals you'll do more business and it's just a snowball effect.
Speaker 2:You know, quite often I sort of sit in these webinars, training sort of, with SJP providers, which are great, don't get me wrong. I pick up lots of little nuggets. But sometimes I think if we just take it back to basics, you know just, I think we can look at, overcomplicate it. Sometimes we can overcomplicate it and that's all I've done. I've not really thought too much about it. I've obviously thought a bit about it, of course, but I've not overcomplicated it.
Speaker 2:I've just done the job, looked after the clients and one of the things that you know we're very fortunate with in the office you know my PSS plant-based support staff. You know they know how passionate I am about looking after the clients and doing the right thing. That's taken down onto them. They do the same. You know we get clients, sam, who just come in the office any excuse for coffee, just so they can have a chat with me.
Speaker 2:If I'm in, nikki, my practice manager, and Dawn and Melissa, I've got to come into the office and see a client sat having a coffee. You know, let's shake the hand. How are you? You know that's it and that's how we've done it.
Speaker 2:You know we just built that personal and interestingly, interestingly, the first time I meet a client I always explain a little bit about me, the device and james's face, my business, and it's one of the first things I say to clients is you know a lot of clients. Why a lot of clients are attracted to me, nathan, in the financial planning, is because we're a small personal business. There's a team of seven, eight of us. You've always got me at the end of the phone. You've always got one of my PSS at the end of the phone. You've got that sort of small personal service, no call centre or anything like that, but you've got the backing of a FTSE 100 company behind you. So that's the beauty of the way that the partnership with St James's Place works is you clients can have that personal, more service, but with the financial backing in there and the and you know the safety for the client of a of a sort of 100 company behind them.
Speaker 1:I think going back to basics is such a valuable way to look at it right. It's going back to basics, doing the simple things, doing them over and over again, doing them right. And I also think you're laying on the head there with the partnership. You know St James' Place and the partnership. They've done it numerous times. So they're always finely tuning and, you know, not reinventing the wheel, they're sharpening the blades. You know they're getting better and better in how they do it. So if you listen and you watch and you observe and you think, well, if they can do it, I can do it. What are they doing? Which is the basics?
Speaker 1:It's all about following the basics and being active and knowing that in the beginning it's hard work. But if you put the hard work in the beginning, you're going to reap the rewards at the end. And this is what I try and explain to people to think about joining the profession. So if they're looking from outside the profession, maybe they're on 50, 60, 70, 80k right now. Well, if I go and be a st james's based partner, I'm going to be self-employed, all right, or I'm going to be, you know, on a much lower salary. It's like, yeah, but you need to understand in five years you're not going to be if you put the hard work and graft in and this is what it looks yeah this is what it looks like.
Speaker 1:So think about the here and now, think about the next five years and you are a prime example. Eight years time 63 million in the management. You know you're a modest, modest guy by the sound of it, but you should be proud of yourself. It's a hell of an achievement and I think nathan, at 30 years old, would probably look at you and go well done, mate.
Speaker 2:You know, like that's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, yes, I think it's fantastic and you're a prime example of what you can do and keep to the basics, right, absolutely, I do amazing. Nathan, listen, I've absolutely loved talking to you today. I've talked to you before, today was the podcast and it's again just a lovely conversation. I love the way you keep things really, really simple and, to me, that's the most important thing. Right, we can over complicate things. There's a book for absolutely everything. There's a million and one books about how to lose weight, right, but it's pretty bloody simple how to lose weight right, you don't need me move my old.
Speaker 2:My old manager used to say to me it's the same with this. They used to say kiss, kiss it, keep it stupidly simple. There you go I love it.
Speaker 1:That's and and I knew I used to knock on doors when I was about 16 17. I left school, went knocked on doors and it was the old school american pyramid sales type approach right and you would have to spend two hours in the office practicing role plays over and over and over again and go and knock on a hundred doors, self-employed at 17 years old, in the right yeah yeah, it works and funny enough. Kiss was one of them. Keep it simple stupid like you know, it's just, it just works, but like the man from the prune.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for your time today thank you for sharing your career journey. We wish you all the success and I'm sure you're going to be more and more successful, and I look forward to hearing about the next five years in the future. Mate, super Thanks, sam, appreciate it, thank you.
