Financial Planner Life Podcast

The Transformative Journey of a Young Financial Planner - Dylan Ellis

August 21, 2024 • Sam Oakes

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Trigger Warning  - We discuss Suicide and Addiction. 

Hosted by: Sam Oakes

Guest: Dylan Ellis, Financial Planner at St James's Place

Episode Overview: In this deeply insightful episode of the Financial Planner Life Podcast, host Sam Oakes talks with Dylan Ellis, who at just 26 years old has transformed personal adversity into professional success. Dylan candidly shares his story of growing up in poverty, the profound impact of losing his brother to suicide, and his mother's battle with addiction and subsequent death, and how these pivotal moments steered him toward a career in financial planning.

What You’ll Learn:

  • From Admin to Adviser: Discover Dylan’s career evolution from an administrative role at 18 to achieving significant milestones as a financial planner by the age of 24.
  • Empathy and Professional Growth: Learn how Dylan’s personal experiences have enriched his ability to empathize with clients, making him a more effective advisor.
  • The Role of Support Systems: Dylan highlights the importance of talking circles and mentorship in his healing and professional development.
  • Achievements and Impact: Gain insights into Dylan’s professional achievements, including writing over £300,000 of business in one year and managing assets worth £18.5 million.
  • Advocacy for Mental Health: Dylan discusses the critical need for mental health awareness and support within the financial industry, advocating for a shift toward greater openness and understanding.

Closing Thoughts: This episode is a powerful reminder of how personal challenges can fuel professional and personal growth. Dylan’s journey is not just inspiring; it also underscores the importance of mental health support and empathy in financial planning.

Mental Health Resources: For listeners seeking support, here are some essential UK resources:

  • Samaritans: Available 24/7 at 116 123 for anyone in distress.
  • Talk Club: Providing a space for men to support their mental fitness (website for more information).
  • Mind: Advice and support for mental health problems at 0300 123 3393.
  • Suicide Prevention Hotline: Immediate help is available 24/7 at 116 123.

Tune in to this profound exploration of resilience, empathy, and the power of human connections within the finance industry. Whether you’re a professional in the sector or someone navigating your challenges, Dylan’s story offers valuable insights and encouragement.

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Speaker 1:

And today's guest on the Financial Planner Live podcast is Dylan Ellis. He started his career at 19 years old. He's now 26 years old. He moved from power planning into financial advice through the St James's Place Academy. We talk about the power of talking and listening and working on yourself to be a brilliant financial planner. Trigger warning there is talk of suicide in this episode. Please be aware of that and check the notes for any support that you might need around your own personal or anybody else's mental health. I hope you enjoy the episode. Dylan. Thanks so much for joining me today on the Financial Planet Life podcast. How are you?

Speaker 2:

I'm very well, thank you. I'm very well, thank you. How are you?

Speaker 1:

I'm all right, actually. Yeah, good, I'm getting all fired up because I'm off to Dubai tomorrow, can?

Speaker 2:

you get your tan on, Get my tan on Well.

Speaker 1:

I don't know about getting my tan on, because it's like 45 degrees out there. Might get your burn on, might get my burn on, I get my burn on. Yeah, I think I'll be running from air conditioning to air conditioning. So I've got a bit going on doing some video work out there as well, which I'm really looking forward to. Getting stuck into a new podcast and a new youtube channel. Nice, obviously, joining another, uh, another firm, a financial planning firm out there. They've got a whole team of people that I can work with, so you know, marketing team and other videographers and content creators. So it's it's really exciting for me to get stuck into an environment where I can get creative and lead into others.

Speaker 2:

Nice, like playing in a bigger sand pit yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, yeah, yeah, nice, I'm pumped, for it sounds like an exciting project really.

Speaker 1:

Yeah yeah, it is like you know, just managed to find my way into a head of creative role. You know I created a head of creative, but it goes back to you know. It shows you what you can do right, and it's also the basis of this podcast, isn't it? The podcast is the financial plan of life, right, and it was created to attract. Initially, my higher purpose goal was to attract new people to the profession, which is why I bring on people like you to talk about your career, your career journey, because it's your journey that's inspiring those who are in the profession to push forward, or those outside of the profession to look through the window to see what it's all about. Yeah, so technically, my podcast over four years has helped me go from recruitment into financial planning. Yeah, so it's done what it's set out to do, which was attract new talent to the profession, which is including yourself, which is including planning, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So it's done what it's set out to do, which is attract new talent to the profession, which is including yourself. Which is including myself, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So today is your story. Okay, you have spent a few years now in the financial planning profession in some capacity or another, but you are currently a financial planner. I am, and we're at SJP today in Knightsbridge. You're a financial planner. I am, and we're at sjp today in knightsbridge. You're a st james's place financial planner. You've gone through the academy, you're out the other six side and you've had some huge success.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so we want to talk about that today, talk about your journey and let's inspire others to possibly take the same path or learn from your ups, your downs, your challenges and um, let's get some more people in the profession.

Speaker 2:

Amazing, I think that's what the profession needs. So yeah, let's go for it.

Speaker 1:

I'll tell you what. Let's start at the very, very beginning. Okay, because you got into the profession in an administrative position originally before St James's Place. But let's just start at the beginning. Why the financial planning profession and how did you get into it?

Speaker 2:

So I suppose, the beginning. Why the financial planning profession and how did you get into it? So I, I suppose, going right back to the beginning. So when I was I come from a family that's really quite poor um, we had, we had nothing. And so when I was the 11 year old boy that I once was which feels like a lifetime ago um, me and my friends would be in suites at the train station, on the train platform, whatever we were doing, causing mischief, and I used to see people getting off the train at like five o'clock or six o'clock in their suits, and I used to think they must work in finance or they must work in banking and they must do pretty well because they're in a suit and they get in the train station car park and they get in a nice car and they drive off, probably home to their very nice family.

Speaker 2:

So for me it was a case of is there a way that I can do this so that I don't have to stay in poverty? And that's why I joined. And it wasn't. It was for selfish reasons, financially, but also I knew that I wanted to break that cycle because I always, from the age of nine, ten years old, I wanted to have a family, not that young, obviously, but in due course and I always wanted you know, I don't want to have to force my family, future family to experience the same hardship that I did. So I finished school, done an apprenticeship in accountancy that was a bit boring, I'll be honest, it wasn't, it was a little bit too much tied to my desk Then started a job in Barclays Bank where I was the guy at the till, you know, counting people's money, helping people in the banking and all stuff like that.

Speaker 2:

And there was a guy there who used to work in a premier banking and I think he used to kind of have a hand in the investment side as well, the wealth side, and I thought thatorge a really nice guy, um, and so I thought well, let me find the investment and wealth side sounds really interesting, let me find something in my local area that will let me get into that um. So I started applying for um local companies and there's one guy who gave me a shot. Basically, I had no experience, didn't even know what pension was. I mean, I was 18, I'd never heard of a pension you know, I'm way too young for that, apparently and he gave me my first short admin. I was a junior administrator, basically, so I was basically there to turn my computer on and help the main power planner do some scanning and a few bits and bobs. But just learn while I was there and that's where it all started. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Interesting. What was the salary you went in on at that stage? It's obviously an entry-level role. It was £14,000 a year.

Speaker 2:

£14,000 a year Okay, so that was your entry-level position that was yeah, yeah, so I was happy with that, I mean at 18 years old, all my friends were sort of in uni or sixth form. I was like wow, I'm a All right, fantastic, great stuff.

Speaker 1:

So how long were you in that role for?

Speaker 2:

I stayed there probably only for about six months and then, long story short, I had a relationship breakdown. Things at my family home weren't great, so I'd moved out by that point already. So I moved again back to kind of my local area and I joined an IFA firm, which were pretty big in a local area. I then stayed there for about two and a half years two and a half, yeah, two and a half years where I done the majority of my exams and trained as a power planner, and then decided to join another company, which then led me here. Do you want me to go into that? Yeah, yeah. So I left the IFA practice. I was where I was at a power planner.

Speaker 2:

I felt I had hit a bit of a ceiling there, my role as a power planner. I needed more from it. So I joined another company that were part of the Quilter Network but had just left the Quilter Network from like a buyout. The small company that I worked for just got bought out and joined another small network. That this is another story. Um, now the guy who just sold that business was looking to start at SJP and I just joined that his old business as a power planner and after about a year, he kind of said well, you're pretty good as a power planner not quite like you. Um, do you want to come on board as an advisor you've got your qualifications and join me at SJP, start a brand new business? Um, and that's what we did, and I joined the SJP academy from there fantastic.

Speaker 1:

When you joined the profession initially in the IFA admin role, did you have aspirations to want to be a financial planner or did you kind of not really know what the career development plans were? Progression plans were, what was your sort of? What was your north star at that point? What was your driver?

Speaker 2:

I didn't know what a financial advisor was when I joined um. I was 18 and places like google and stuff are really not great at articulating what financial advisors do. So for me, at 18 years old, with a load of industry jargon on a webpage somewhere, didn't understand what financial advisor was. But I just wanted to work in finance because that's what those men in the suits used to do, apparently at the train station that I used to see, and I just wanted to make something of myself and I knew that that was the progression route. But I didn't know what it was. And now I do it. I really enjoy it.

Speaker 1:

Great. So in that power planner role, even when you're in that power planner role, you're closer to the process of delivering the financial advice, right, yeah, okay, supporting financial advisors? Yeah, when you're in that power planner role, did you start to look at the role of an advisor and think that's where I want to go?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, start to look at the role of an advisor and think that's, that's where I want to go. Yeah, so I I got the opportunity to start sitting in a client meetings and understanding, not just when I'm.

Speaker 2:

It's really easy, as a power plan, to sit and be a report, a report writer yep but when you're able to sit in front of those clients and and understand and articulate why they want to do what they want to do, you then understand the importance of an advisor and I think for me that was a key point where I thought actually I really want to give that a go how many, how many years do you think?

Speaker 1:

because you know lots of power planners are probably going to be listening to this uh podcast right now. I mean, you know there's like circa 9 000 power planners out there, right, roughly I don't know how many specifically, but top end looking about nine, nine thousand dot. Wow, right, interestingly enough, probably 80 80 of those are female. So when we look at the disparity between male and female in financial planning, there's actually quite a lot of people in power planner roles that are female, um, and we're not including administrators in this as well. So we look at the back office type functions within financial planning. There's a lot of people in there, yeah, and I think you, you tend to see like routes into financial uh planning as being either admin, power planner, become a financial advisor. This is the kind of like, um, almost like accountancy route. Like you know, you go as a training accountant and work your way up until you become a partner and then you've got things like the academies and all of that where you can go straight in as a financial advisor.

Speaker 1:

So people like listening to this right now, who are in power planner roles, who are thinking do you know what I? I really want to become a financial uh planner, but they are stuck where they are. Maybe there's not a career development plan. You, you actually chose to go into st james's place through the academy. So I just kind of want to get people to understand. If you're in a paraplanner role, perhaps you're employed, which more than likely you are in a power planner role. You're employed, there's a comfort of that role, but you're not meeting your expectations of becoming a financial advisor within the timescale that you want. I think it's interesting to hear your journey from power planner through the academy to where you are now as a financial planner, because it's not an obvious choice for power planners to do that, you know. So let's just talk about that a little bit there then.

Speaker 2:

So from power, planner, then going through to the academy. What was that journey like? Um? Yeah, interesting question, um, for me. I didn't know that the sjp academy was there or any academy was there. I knew I wanted to be an advisor and I just thought that whatever company I worked for at the time would train me to do it, have their own academy of some sorts. Um, when my now managing director approached me and said, well, this is what I want to do, do you want to come and do it with me? Um, I sat down with a couple of guys, the recruitment guys in sjp, and they kind of talked me around what that looks like. Um, and it sounded really attractive. But going back to my ifa days, I was always told don't go restricted, don't go tied and whatever you do, don't touch sjp right, yeah that's what I was told, that's what everyone was told.

Speaker 2:

So there was a part of me that thought am I really making the right decision for my own career here? But now I'm here, it's a totally different story and the whole media narrative is totally different to what real life at sjp actually is. Like, um, totally different. But the actual transition phase for me was was a good one.

Speaker 2:

I had a really good experience on the academy from day one to the final day, and I think if you're a power planner going, considering being a financial planner, go and do a proper academy, because I know with the old firm I was at, they may have given me training, but it would have been half-hearted training because the advisors are too busy to train you do.

Speaker 2:

You know what I mean? Whereas with an academy, these guys are employed to actually do this for a living. They're there to teach you, and so I would learn so much more and more than I would have at another company with their own kind of advisors by doing the sjp academy, and I am I'm I'm a big advocate for it because it got me to I am now. There's so much help and support out there. If you're a power planner and you're not sure that going through an academy is right for you, just do it like, just do it because there's so much support. There's so much support there that you wouldn't necessarily get elsewhere. Yeah, and that is. I think that that's the turning point, that's the big difference, I think that's often the problem, isn't it?

Speaker 1:

You know you're a power planner sitting in a role of power planning. You've got aspirations to want to be a financial planner. Now you might be in a firm that doesn't have the resources or investment to put into training, especially on an in-house basis. I mean, mean you could hit the nail on the head. You know sjp like 20, 28 million a year or something ridiculous like that that they spend on that training and development within the academy year on year. They have more people go through it and you know, when you start something it's never the best. But you learn from mistakes or you learn from successes and you build upon um, the journey, the process, the, the training, the development, every aspect of essentially a curriculum or an academy, however you want to look at it. So, comparatively, you think, well, actually that sounds perfect, because I want to be a financial planner, I need the training and development, but I don't want to leave the security, let's say, of a role of power planning. But I suppose you're absolutely right. Just go and do it, get stuck into it.

Speaker 1:

Did you ever consider career power planning? Was that something that ever crossed your mind? Was there, and so let's kind of, kind of let's just get back and help these people that are sitting in power planner roles, because they're probably toying a little bit. Should I career power planners is what I do, or should I go down the route of becoming a financial planner? What was it inside of you that was driving you to be that financial planner? And I wonder we can help them identify that yeah, good question.

Speaker 2:

Um, I never considered being a career power planner. However, I was in a rush to finish my power planning career because the longer I was a power planner, for surely the more I would learn and the more experience I get. So I was uh, you know, I was never in a rush to do that and equally, when I started advising, I was 24, so that's still quite young in the eyes of a client, right? Um, so I was in no rush. If you are a power planner and you are just toying with the idea, go and join another practice and go through an academy that's unfair of me to say I think I'm glad I went through an employed role doing the academy.

Speaker 2:

Okay. I'm extremely glad because that gave me the space to be able to learn, not worry about basic salary, not have to wear all the other hats that come with running a business marketing accounts, all those other bits and bobs whilst learning to be an advisor. I have an amazing mentor in my managing director and the other colleagues in my business.

Speaker 1:

I think that's an interesting point. You've raised it, because when you look at something like an academy, like st james's place, you hear self-employed yeah, yeah, you do hear self-employed. So when you're employed as a power planner, the thought of going self-employed is scary. You lose your basic salary yeah, that's it, it's gone. You lose your basic. You lose the security yeah, and you're used to that. Okay, and you might not be ready for that.

Speaker 1:

And I think the route that you took into sjp and what people need to also understand is look, you can go in and become a partner straight off. Yeah, run your own business. Um, and that's not for everybody, you know. It's not advisable to somebody perhaps who has never run a business before. Yeah, right, um, who hasn't got a strong network to lean into all the typical things that would make it a huge success. And the due diligence is done at that interview stage to make sure that if you are the right person, that you go down the right route, because the other route is there are existing partner practices and they're growing, and those people that run those partner practices are looking for trainee advisors. So James's Place provides the coaching and the academy support, whilst the partner or the team within the partner practice, provide the mentorship and hands-on training and development and often those situations, they can offer a basic salary, and that's what you did. Yeah, that's exactly what I did. Yeah, that's exactly what you did.

Speaker 1:

So you found that ultimately, trainee advisor role with a basic salary Okay, and to boot you knew the person which was handy Okay, and then that person also trained and mentored and developed you Okay. So there's a lot of things going on in that. There's a lot of ingredients in the recipe for creating a successful financial planner, and you have had huge success. We spoke about it and I think I gave you some really great perspective. I think you do know you've got, you're doing quite well because you've been awarded, uh, you've won awards within sjp. You've been invited to specific events when you're a high achiever right, and there's no doubt about it, in the short time of you being at st james's place, you've had some great success.

Speaker 1:

So what we want to kind of do here as well is be reflective and identify where and that, um, what, what helped you become that success? Was it all down to you or was it down to different parts of the process or people that have helped you become a success. Okay, so let's just dissimulate it a little bit. Okay, so you've got the academy training development qualifications. Were you fully qualified before? Yeah, so you were fully qualified before. Okay, so you didn't need to lean into the qualifications side of it. So you were fully qualified before. Okay, so you didn't need to lean into the qualifications side of it. So what did then the academy provide you in respect of support to educate you through or to build upon your skill set that you then took into the role of planning?

Speaker 2:

I really enjoyed my time in the academy, and the reason why is because not only are you in a cohort and everyone is generally really nice, the trainers in the academy are so helpful. They like if, for example, you need something more, you didn't understand today's session, put your hand up. So I'll miss what. We don't call them that. But you know, um, please can I have some help? I didn't understand that. Of course you can. Let's sit down for an hour after, after this zoom or whatever you know. They're so helpful and I think that is one piece of support that they give you. They are absolutely hell-bent on making you the best version that you can be as an advisor, and that is that dedication, I think is unbelievable, because we've all done training courses before and we've all been in places where we think, okay, well, yeah, these guys are good, or you know. But when I got to the academy, they just seemed to care and that was a. That was a massive difference. So outside the academy trainers, we then had adms um. Shout out, zoe, she was great, um, and she really helped me to kind of hone in those soft skills outside of those zoom lessons as well. So we were doing role plays all the time, et cetera. Um, and she's been again a massive help, as well as Jason, who was my growth and development manager as well, outside of term two. Um, again another amazing help and really good resource of information.

Speaker 2:

There's just people there. If you have any question about anything, they are there to help you through, and that's, I think, a massive positive of having an academy, because people are literally employed to help you. They're not trying to do another job at the same time. I've still got this currency, but now dylan wants this. Actually, my only focus is dylan, because that's what I'm paid to do, right? Um, they have online material. You can go in person, like I used to meet Zoe here sometimes and we would do role plays. There's just so much support out there, and that, from an SJP Academy perspective, was, I think it put me on a really stable footing to be able to go out with clients and run a meeting efficiently and just be good at it yeah I think where the development, the further development came was working with my md chris, which is so tell us a little bit about that then.

Speaker 1:

Working with your md chris, are we talking mentorship? Are we talking on the job training? Give us an overview of what he did to help and influence you to be the planet that you are today that's a really good question and a really tricky one.

Speaker 2:

Not tricky in the sense that that's difficult to answer, but tricky because he done so much right and to actually put your finger on it all is really quite hard. So, um, I met chris probably, probably 2021. He had just sold his business and was pretty much thinking about going to SJP and we got to speak quite often there and I could just see he's a heavily experienced advisor, which who else who better to learn from you know from my perspective. And then when we started, when he started Compass um and brought me as as like a sole advisor, um, we did so many things. We'd done role plays. Um, I would go to his house because we didn't have an office. We were a brand new business. Um, I was the first employee of the company, because Chris was an employee, because he was still tied to the old firm for a set amount of time. So I was going through the academy as the only company employee.

Speaker 2:

I'd go just house to do role plays, um, and go for all the stuff I've learned at the academy. Um, when I actually got authorized and you know, we were ready to, like, start seeing clients. Um, he helped me book appointments, how to speak to people on the phone, body language. He'd come on to put every appointment. He came on probably for the first year with me, um, and I was probably doing three or four appointments a week. Every appointment didn't miss a single one of them until he felt I was ready. Until I felt I was ready, he would help me and just give me little tips, like if you were a flower on the wall and we left, what would they say now that you're gone? All these small tips and tricks He'd help me lead the meetings, words of advice, what to expect in this meeting, what to expect in that meeting. He kind of shaped me into the advisor that I am today, um, and without his experience I would not be where I am. I think it's great having success in sjp, but I can't tell you that it was all me, because without him I I genuinely don't think I would be where I am.

Speaker 2:

And also another colleague of mine, mick, who is very similar to chris, very experienced, done the exact same thing as chris. There was basically two of them working with me and both of them have been fantastic mentors as well, um, but without them I wouldn't be where I am and it's so important to work as a team and highlight that when you've been helped as well. Like you know, I tell him sometimes like I really appreciate all the help and stuff and he really appreciates it as well. Um, you know, I don't have a relationship with my dad, but I can imagine having a healthy relationship with your parent is kind of what I've got like with chris, and not in a really weird unhealthy way like he is still my, my boss at the end of the day. But when you have someone in your corner who genuinely wants to see you win and wants to see you do well and will do anything to help you, that that's totally valuable and I can, I can imagine that's what having a dad in your life is like 100.

Speaker 1:

I I hear what you're saying there. I think having a positive role model and who's male, I think for a guy is so, so important. I don't think that really changes with age either, um, or if you become a dad or not. I think, um, being able to have someone you can lean into, who is actually giving you honest feedback and supporting you and coaching you and actually kind of showing some compassion and some interest towards you, is just it's brilliant right, you know it's a it's life-changing.

Speaker 1:

It's life-changing. It really is. Yeah, it really is. And in your situation where you didn't know your father right, I know the story and you didn't know your father, um, just for the listeners to understand, that probably was massively important to you, because it's that trust, isn't it as well? And something probably that was missing in your life that then gets replaced. So, when we look at mentorship being mentored, being a mentee or being the mentor you just realize just how powerful that connection actually is, and everybody needs a bit of that, and I think it's so, so important. Um, let's just go back a little bit further, then, because you mentioned like you didn't grow up with the silver spoon in your mouth, right? Um, you're 26 years old. You've had huge success already throughout your career, but let's go back to the beginning. Is it, was it easy for you? Did you have a silver spoon in your mouth growing up? Did you have somebody by your side telling you how to do things and leading you down the pathway?

Speaker 2:

no, no, sadly not. No. So I grew up in Stansted near the airport. It was me, my mum, my brother and sister who were. They were twins older than me and you know, growing up wasn't easy. We didn't have anything really. We lived in a council house, as did everyone on our estate, played out with my friends. But as I got older, um, life started to change quite a lot and my mom become an alcoholic um, which, at the time being probably 11 years old when that started, um, you don't realize that it's wrong, you just realize something's not right, um, but you just deal with it.

Speaker 2:

Um, at the age of 11, I got my first newspaper round because we had no money. I had to start buying food for myself. At 11 years old. Um, we had nothing. I got older, things at home got worse. I moved out when I was 18 to live with my brother who just finished university. We then he decided to go and do a master's and he went back down to Southampton, went to uni in Portsmouth, went back to Southampton to do a master's degree. So we moved out.

Speaker 2:

I lived with a friend and about six months after that he committed suicide. No one in the family knew that he had issues, mental health issues. It was a surprise, massive surprise, um, that still leaves a hole in all of our lives today. And, yeah, um, four months later, my mom passed away. She died, um, her body just gave out in the end. Yeah, it was tough, really tough, and whilst I had the choice to sink or swim, I guess I don't know, I don't know if I did have a choice I just got on with it. I lost all my hair. It was stressful, yeah, really difficult time in my life, and it gave me I think it genuinely gave me a fire in my life that I don't know I would have had, because I always knew I wanted to change my life and be different. My upbringing never defined me, but I didn't know how I was going to do it, and so, when these things happened, I realized just how precious life can be and just how short it can be as well. My brother was 23 when he died. I was 19, um, my mom was 43 when she died. It'll be her 50th birthday this month and that's so young, you know that's so young.

Speaker 2:

I have clients who are like my grandparents age and they've lived an amazing life and yeah, yeah, strange, there were strange times and they still kind of are sometimes to think back and to think that that's what happened. You never, you know, know you don't grow up, obviously you don't grow up knowing that's going to happen, but you don't ever feel like you're going to have to fight like that, um, and just to stay afloat. Because there was a long time where I, I don't know, I went to work and everything was fine, but I'd get home and crash and cry and nothing was good, everything was bad there was. You'd get home and crash and cry and nothing was good, everything was bad there was. You know my partner, who I'm with now, my fiance. I remember sometimes we lived in a flat together at this time and she would come in to go to bed and I was just like lying in bed just in tears. There was nothing I could do. That was hard, that was really hard. There's nothing I could do, um, that was hard. That was really hard, um, but things did change. Time is a healer.

Speaker 2:

But also I met some really amazing people along the way my journey, because, for I going back a step, I for a long time felt lost and when I was in bed in tears and not sure where my life was going. I didn't know if I was. I don't know. Did I want to do my job anymore? Did I want to live here anymore? Did I want to do any of this anymore? Really, is how I felt, and I've never really gone into much detail with friends or family about that, because it's just I don't want them to have a worry.

Speaker 2:

Um, but um, bizarrely enough, I went to a friend's, one of my best friends, um his dad's wedding in Cyprus, which was lovely, um, and I met two amazing people there, kim and River, who are still in my life now, um, and they are I guess there's a blanket term spiritual as such.

Speaker 2:

Um, they do many, many things, but one thing that they do, and do amazingly as well, is they host um men's circles and what they call sister circles as well.

Speaker 2:

So, for the men's circle is obviously what I went to um every Thursday evening, men would gather around either a fire or, if it's too cold, we go inside and sit around like a fire, or, if it's too cold, we'd go inside and sit around like a table, and there's a talking stick, and whoever's holding that talking stick has free speech, and they talk, and they talk without judgment and whilst they hold that stick, no one else talks. So when I first got invited, I didn't want to go because I knew I should have and I and part of me was comfortably living in my own chaos, if that even makes sense, um, and I didn't know that. I knew I needed to make a change because I wasn't feeling myself at all and I was actually probably really depressed um what I was, but I didn't know what that change needed to look like. So when I went for my first session and saw everyone pick up the stick and talk and there was like I think it was like 10 of us, which was quite a big circle.

Speaker 2:

I was nervous, I was like shaking, I couldn't, couldn't even fathom talking. And then, all of a sudden, someone put the stick down and I spoke. And that was the first time I had ever opened up about anything, ever, because I've never had anyone in my life tell me that talking is good. The first time I'd heard about mental health was when my brother died. So for me, talking was like you know, you know the stigma, right, men don't talk, we just get on with it. We go to work and we come home, job done, right, we are just that's what we do. So the first time I talked I was like wow, that felt good. I feel really crap, I feel really good. Um, it brought forward a lot of emotions that I didn't. I knew I was feeling, but I, I, they, they hit me hard.

Speaker 2:

Um, and for the next probably year, I was going to these talking circles, not every week, but most weeks, and I was looking for answers. I was looking for answers and I was kind of thinking what my questions in my head were, and I don't know what the questions were To this day. I don't know what the questions were. It was just why did this happen to me? Why did this happen to my family? What have I got to do to say I hear you, and that's brought up this for me, and I'm going to talk about my experience and what I felt in this time.

Speaker 2:

And hearing people anywhere from age I guess, 16 to 80, talk about their experiences, their hardships.

Speaker 2:

I've sat around that circle with alcoholics, drug abusers, career criminals, alcoholics, drug abusers, career criminals, um services vets, army vets, who have seen some of the most horrendous things and learning their stories and understanding that we are all craving the same thing and that is just a space to talk and feel loved and nurtured.

Speaker 2:

Um, and that's where those answers start to come, because I still don't know why this happened to my family. And those intangible answers Because now, not only am I able to help those around me if they're in similar situations, or at least I might know someone who can help, but, going back to my career, I can sit in front of people and say, actually I feel you, I understand the emotions you're going through, because no family I've ever seen is straightforward. And to be able to sit and have empathy for a family who can trust you with their finances and just trust you and and use you as an oracle is so humbling and is an experience that I will always be grateful for. Um, yeah, it's been one hell of a journey, and it's been a tough journey and one that I never envisioned having to go through, of course, but now I think I'm through the other side of the hardest of times has only fueled the fire, I think.

Speaker 1:

That was beautiful and sad. Yeah, thank you, you know. First off, just just you know, thank you for sharing that. I don't think you realize at this point as well, and I think actually you've got a very wise head on your shoulders. I think you do realize that when you share that story and you pick up that stick, and when you share that story and on this podcast somebody's listening to this right now and that incredibly powerful thing called identification is happening, that they're identifying in you and your story things that have happened in their life and it's giving them confidence to be able to reach out to support whether that's a talk club or a men's circle or a counselor or a friend to open up and to talk about the experiences that they've gone through, so a healing process can actually begin.

Speaker 1:

Because what I've learned in my life a much later age than you have, which is why I'm so impressed with your journey and you as an individual, thank you. I wish I had the head on the shoulders that you do at your age. I'm so, so impressed and I'm so proud that you're speaking up about it. It's just insane. It's like because when I was your age, you didn't do that. Men just did not do that. Why? Um, because it wasn't considered male to open up and talk about your problems. Um, I battled with depression and anxiety at a very from a very young age. I grew up in a household that was quite crazy. There was a lot of drinking going on. Um, I I struggled with with that, with drink later on as well. So I didn't realize that I was actually turning to alcohol myself as a way to cope with anxiety and and depression. You didn't really talk that much. You would just go and get drunk with your mates and that would be your medicine and you'd talk down the pub after a few beers. But you wouldn't really open up emotionally and vulnerably because it wasn't a male thing to do. Boys, don't cry, man up, you know, come on, you can, you can get on with it, pull your socks up. That's what you told little boys. You know. You didn't tell little girls that it was very acceptable for a girl to cry. It was very acceptable for a girl to show emotion. It was not very acceptable for a man to do it, and that was kind of the narrative really. That's passed down generationally.

Speaker 1:

I think it's changed a lot and I think statistics are backing up that it needs to change. So I'm on the board of directors for talk club, which is a men's mental fitness charity. Sjp has supported that fantastically amazing um 75 of all suicides are male, you know. And most men don't open up and talk and the whole purpose of talk club is to ask the question how are you out of 10? What are you grateful for? What are you doing to work on your mental fitness today? And having the space to be able to actually talk and what you've identified, as well as listen, is the one that most important things, because it's when you listen to other people's stories. It gives you the courage and then the confidence to then be vulnerable yourself as well. The power of that vulnerability is huge and it heals. It's, it's a healing process. Talking and listening is the best medicine I've ever had. It's the medicine that got me out of bed when I didn't want to be here anymore in my life yeah, yeah when depression hit so hard that I was considering suicide.

Speaker 1:

You know, I picked up the phone and spoke to the samaritans. I actually phoned the samaritans and there's an element of me that feels embarrassed to say that, right, and this is. This is the weird thing, isn't it? I felt embarrassed, I feel embarrassed to say that, but I phoned them in my time of need and that person who was at the end of that telephone, right, wasn't paid to be there. They were there because they wanted to be there for somebody, in whatever situation they were in, when they needed to speak to somebody. That place and I was in a place where I was not well- and um.

Speaker 1:

You know, I found I phoned them up and I was able to talk to them. Life changing is beyond, beyond words. The power of that person just being there to listen to me, without judgment, without financial gain, yeah, was huge, huge, and the very sense of the word samaritan hit home of what it meant. So when people to me say there isn't anything out there where people can go, that mental health in the uk isn't looked after and all of that, now don't get me wrong. It can be very difficult if you go down the traditional routes in the nhs or whatever. But there is, without a shadow of a doubt, a lot of communities, clubs, charities, samaritans. But if you do pick up the phone and you speak to them when you feel like you can speak to nobody else, the power of talking to a stranger is huge, because it's difficult to talk to a mom or a brother or a partner sometimes, whereas talking to actually sometimes the hardest thing to do.

Speaker 1:

The hardest thing to do, yeah, so when you go and find that community of people, like the talking club, where people are there for the very reason to actually share with each other, because they are in a state of pain, perhaps, or confusion, or a crossroad, or spiritual sickness, whatever you want to call it Finding that community whether it be overeating, drug addiction, alcohol they exist and you can find it. And when you're in there, the energy within that room, by connecting with other people that share the same problem as you, becomes so hugely powerful and it becomes a healing process again and it's proven. In within your body, oxytocin is released, which is the, the love drug. They call it the love hormone, and that's where you get that feeling of like elation and that you know that wanting to hug somebody or look him in the eyes, and when you talk to him and you open up and the sharing is just healing, um, so I'm just blown away.

Speaker 1:

First of all, thank you for sharing that, thank you for allowing me to share back and just showing the importance of that. Dealing with your problems and not burying them is the bravest thing that you can do and the most positive impact you can have on yourself and those around you, because there is a cycle sometimes that can happen in life, where we carry these things on, yeah, and then it infects our own children, doesn't it? Because you're a father now I am, yeah, how long you been a father for um.

Speaker 2:

My son will be two in september two in september, yeah, fantastic.

Speaker 1:

So how are you finding that?

Speaker 2:

amazing. Yeah, he's like the light of my life. Yeah, yeah, and he's um, yeah, um. Things change when you become a dad and one of those things is my motivation. So before I used to do everything for myself. No, not everything for myself. That's unfair. My motivation was to always do it for my future family. But now I have my future family and I look at him and I think I pray to God that nothing bad ever happens to you, and I hope you never experienced what I had to, and that, for me, is the biggest moment.

Speaker 2:

I don't want him to go like don't get me wrong, he wants to go and do a paper round at age 13 or 14 because he wants a few extra quid. I will, of course, encourage it. That's a really good work ethic. And actually I probably got that from there because I thought, well, that's a really good work ethic. And actually I probably got that from there because I thought, well, I haven't got any, I have to go and do something about it.

Speaker 2:

Right, yeah, but I don't want him to have to worry about what I did. I didn't know if I was going to eat some nights, yeah, when I was 11 years old. I don't want him worried about that. I don't want him worrying if he can go on a ski trip or who's going to, you know? Help him with his driving lessons, or he needs new clothes. I had clothes from my friends because their parents knew about my situation. They had a frankl george. He was much taller than me so when he grew out of his clothes she passed them all to me. I never want him to have to do that, and that becoming a dad has been a journey, but also a massive change of shift of mindset because, as I said before, like he he's now here, he's like my tangible goal. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2:

um, and that's, that's yeah, your purpose yeah, and so now when I sit here and talk to you and hopefully people will listen to this and and understand, like, listen to my journey, what you touched on a minute ago about being vulnerable, I hope this sets a really good example for him, because I'm not saying I mean, he's too, he's not gonna listen to this, right, probably just throw the op-ed at the wall or something. I don't know. He's at that age, um, but at some stage, the more I talk about this, the more normal it becomes, and so for him he will grow up in a house it's normal to talk about how you feel. If I've had a rubbish day at work, I might come home and tell him, because it's important that I don't overwhelm him with too much and I let him be a child for as long as he is a child, but also to be aware that talking is really good and talking makes you feel good and that's the most important thing and that's a massive motivation, huge motivation.

Speaker 2:

Um, can I just go back a step? Of course you can. You said, uh, when you were young and that talking as a man wasn't, wasn't the done thing, and I was thinking about it. And have you ever seen band of brothers?

Speaker 2:

I've never watched it, no no, I'd never heard of it until the other day. Apparently it's amazing, right, and I've started watching it and I look at and for those who I guess don't know, it's about, like the army back in the day, world war ii, what happened? It's a true story. Um, one of the battalions there, all of those men were told to just man up and get on with it. And from world war I and world war ii they were told suck it up, get on with it. We've got a job to do.

Speaker 2:

Can you imagine all those men who then come home hardened to war and have seen the most terrible things, probably feel like I can't talk about this because I've got a man up and get on with it. That's probably. I'm not saying that's where it started. I don't know what happened before world war one and if people were talking about stuff then I don't know. But I can imagine that's why men have a narrative of don't talk about it, just get on with it, cause that's your job and that's maybe that's where it's come from.

Speaker 1:

I'm a hundred percent convinced that's where it's come from. I don't believe this is like a. I don't believe this has always been a problem. I think humans probably communicated quite well.

Speaker 1:

I think war can do that, and I think men coming home from war, especially world war one, world war two very close together and it's not far removed from our parents age, right, their parents and their parents parents they would have gone through this whole kind of situation. It's called epigenetics, isn't it? The things that get passed down through generation to generation. Um, I think you're bang on the, the. You know the right, the right area. Um, yeah, I don't. I think you're absolutely spot on. I think you know it's always been a. Uh, you know you, look at the films that might have been watched back in the day. Mem are always perceived to be, you know, the strong one. You know, go on with it. And the woman was always like oh my god, thank you for saving me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know, and all that. So it's just, it's just the roles that have been, that have been portrayed to us. It's like the class of toxic masculinity type thing. I think masculinity is cool. Yeah, I think being a man is cool. Yeah, I think, and has its place and has its place right. And when we say, being a man, being a man is you can be strong, but you can be vulnerable yeah, yeah and there's strength in vulnerability.

Speaker 1:

There isn't strength in bottling up your feelings because all you're going to do is torture yourself. There is no, there's no healing going on there. You have to accept the fact that life is hard and you're going to go through struggles and sometimes you're going to have to share that and you're going to have to build a network that you can lean into. And you need to find that, that network, whereas I think we kind of almost bottle it, bottle it, bottle it, bottle it to the point where we can't speak to anybody, then the narrative and that within our minds starts to go and that's where the toxicity happens and that's where the depression happens and when the mental illness happens.

Speaker 1:

And to unpick all of that takes time and it could have stemmed from early childhood trauma. It could have stemmed from all sorts of places and, um, like what you're doing now with your son, by having this relationship where you're, you will just naturally open up and talk, to talk to them, um, be calm and and allow that space to breathe and to talk about things. I think that's what the next generation really need to be doing. But how the hell can you do that if you don't do it to yourself?

Speaker 1:

oh great yeah so know thyself is one of the most important things and I think if we bring this now back into that financial planning space, knowing yourself allows you to what know clients better, to know the challenges that clients are going to go through or have been through or the eventualities of the things that might well happen. Guy was a chap called guy who was on my podcast. He lost his dad, right, but that and his dad's a financial advisor and he lost his dad and he knows the value of life protection. So for him he can tell a story that's personal to him about the importance of life cover, critical illness cover etc. And that's like his driving force. So everything that he does around financial planning is off the basis, off of life protection, critical illness cover, the things that could actually go wrong and probably a high chance they might, might well go wrong in your life, right. So he uses that as his narrative and his story and his north star. And then in the background he's obviously as well he helps like kids who've lost parents and gone through that sort of thing. So for him that's a big driver for him and I think leaning into your personal experiences within financial planning and using that to your strength when it comes to building relationships with others, therefore improving your emotional intelligence, your eq levels.

Speaker 1:

As opposed to how much you know from the book, it's about real life world experiences.

Speaker 1:

It's knowing how your emotions are affected by specific triggers and things that happen in your life could be things around money, money, trauma, what happened to us growing up, how we perceive money, how we look after money.

Speaker 1:

You know people with multi-millionaires but have got a terribly terrible relationship with money or whatever right and they feel bad about it or whatever. So I think, knowing yourself and building that level of iq and recognizing how your emotions work and I think cbt is brilliant for that being able to categorize your feelings and emotions and what triggers them once you know that and you do that, you can then put that into your job because, at the end of the day, financial planning is a people job, right? Yeah, you have to know people and ultimately, the product is just a thing. Yeah, you know, but ultimately it's the story, is the is the relationship. It's drawing that information out of somebody to make them feel comfortable and understand that they need a specific thing to reach the, the goal that they need, and very often they've got their own barriers inside their head of stopping them from get to where they get to. Have you found that?

Speaker 2:

definitely. Yeah, I've got um. Um, I've got clients who have had some amazing fortunes and have had very successful careers, which is fantastic. Um, I've also got clients who one client in particular lost her husband to suicide as well 20 years ago, and her children, who are a little bit older than me, probably a few years um, have. Obviously, what happens to their their dad is very unfortunate, but he left behind some really good uh like pension schemes for them.

Speaker 2:

Um, so there's planning there that we look at. But also, at the same time, I can sit and speak with my client and sometimes we can go off the record and say how has life changed for you since 20 years ago? You know, um, and just talk about life, because some that I think the relationship of, of having clients is sometimes just talking about life and your experiences and they will get to know you and then they will trust you and then you can have that advisor client relationship and they will not go anywhere else because they know you and they know that you're not some robot who just sits ticking boxes and flogs life policies or pensions and stuff. You are a real person who actually cares.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I'll make you bang on the money. And do you know what I'm loving at the moment? Okay, is that I've interviewed a few people today. I think the oldest was 30. Right, you're 26 years old and apparently you got a. You know, you can't be a financial advisor. I think there's about a thousand odd that are under the age of 25.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, right, you're smashing that narrative. You know, you, you're, you're so mature and so self-aware and you've worked so hard during such troubling times and turn his adversities into positives. It's it's it's so in, it's so inspiring to hear not just anybody who's a younger advisor who's thinking am I ready to get into this type of company? Am I ready to take the journey down SJP, to be on the academy or become a financial advisor? You know, life's been quite tough for me and I've you're smashing that narrative apart because you've made a huge success so far at the age of 26 years old and done so much, and I think it's inspiring, I think it's brilliant and I'm really pleased today that you're here sharing it, because we have to smash that narrative that financial planning is only for people over the age of 30. Yeah, yeah, you know it's bollocks over 50, over 50?

Speaker 2:

do you know what I mean? Age is like what?

Speaker 1:

58, yeah and there's this idea of this, this, this, this idea that you don't have enough life experience. There's a shed load of people who are younger, yeah, who's got life experience. Who are you to say they haven't got the life experience? And who are you to say they can't learn emotional intelligence? Yeah, because you can. Right, you might not be able to increase your iq, but you sure as shit can increase your EQ, for sure, yeah, yeah, and it comes from places like this and I think the training and the development that runs alongside being a good financial planner. There needs to be levels of EQ. You're doing it off your own bat. You know, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're doing it.

Speaker 1:

But EQ training and I've got a podcast coming out about it soon actually should run alongside. So if you don't have that level of life experience, as people call it life experience you can develop, yeah, empathy and understanding and eq without a shadow of a doubt, and all it is really is getting to know yourself, right, and then being able to be honest, open, talk, listen for crying out loud, because when you listen to somebody else, you learn so much. Like, shut up and listen. Right, that's what you do in a meeting with a client, I'm going to ask you a question. I'm going to shut up and listen, and when you shut up and listen, and every time you want to kind of jump in, they answer the question almost and it leads on to something else and you become and he's like oh, my god like I haven't had to ask a question, but I've got everything I wanted out of it.

Speaker 1:

I need, I need.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

It's powerful isn't it.

Speaker 2:

It is and it's really powerful to be able to sit and because I think it's human instinct is. Human instinct is to sit and hear, to respond. I don't think human instinct is to at least for our generations is to not to sit and listen and digest. And sitting in those talking circles, sometimes no one speaks for 20 minutes and it's silence and we can hear sometimes maybe a bird tweeting it was in the evening, so sometimes not even that um, and they were some of the most healing times.

Speaker 2:

At first I was like this is really uncomfortable, like why is no one talking? Am I supposed to pick up the stick next? I really don't want to um, but in that silence, like someone may have just finished saying something and you sit and reflect on what that person's just said for 10-15 minutes, sometimes you give yourself so many answers that you didn't even think were possible. Um, in fact, honestly, if there's anyone watching this who has never been to a talking circle or talking club or anything like that, please consider it. It is life changing and without that, I will happily say that has probably saved my life and I will not be the only person who will ever say that.

Speaker 1:

I promise you that no, I'm 100 with you as well. The the I've I've publicly announced on my podcast, before I did 12 step process, which is exactly the same. It's a healing circle. It's completely altruistic. There's no cash being passed over. It's a group of people coming together with the same problem that are mentoring and helping each other because they want the other person to do well and get over a problem that they're experiencing. And through that circle of trust and identification and a program that you work through that helps you reflect on what your fears and what your resentments are, the things you're holding on to, how to unpack those damaging things that you hold on to in life, from the age of zero all the way up to the age of bloody 37, when I did it. It was the most healing thing I ever did. But what? What is at the very core of it is a safe space to go and a safe space to open up and talk and a safe space to open up and listen and to gain some goddamn perspective.

Speaker 1:

The person who helped me stop drinking alcohol and because I wasn't a park bench alcoholic but I was had a bad relationship with alcohol, which a lot of people out there do right and it and it affects all your life. It affects your relationships, it affects your school, your work. Whatever it is you're doing right, it's not a good thing. It takes more than it gives. But the guy who helped me right 25 years. He spent living on the streets of London as a crackin' heroin and alcoholic for 25 years Wow, I'd have walked past him in the street and thought nothing of it. Yeah, he couldn't help me. Yet he was the man who showed me he had five years of never drinking or doing drugs, and if he can do that, then so can I it's insane, isn't it well?

Speaker 1:

therefore, I had hope and courage, and, and, and I was incentivized to want to do something. Well, bloody hell, he can do, I can do it and then he took the time to do it and that guy changed my life. I didn't do it for for money, he did it because it heals him, yeah, and that was like bam, there's the answer.

Speaker 2:

That's that's what we should be doing as human beings that's it, and and I totally agree with that the men's circle for me was a safe space, and this is I'm not knocking counseling at all. Counseling is fantastic. Yeah, my experience with counseling I tried it. It just felt a little transactional that my time's up and goodbye um men's circle. I was in a group of. I was in a group with people who wanted to be there and wanted to hear from me and actually hear how I'm doing, and I wanted to hear from them as well. Yeah, and to feel like you are wanted and to feel like people want your presence in such an important space is also massively healing as well. Yeah, because I think you are more inclined to be vulnerable because you know that those people around you are safe people.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's a belonging as well. Yeah, yeah, belonging Something that you lacked when you were growing up. You never really had that, say, look, the key thing a child ever wants is a safe and secure environment. Right, yeah, like a place to be a kid place to to make mistakes and a place to to learn and be safe. That's all we ever really wanted, right? When that's not quite there, then it causes problems. Yeah, yeah, you know, and that's all we gotta do and you know what?

Speaker 2:

had I space? Absolutely yeah, and had I've not gone through my negatives and my talking circles, if I was a dad now, I'd probably be a crap dad. Yeah, I would not have made those changes. Yeah, because I would still probably be someone who is that 11 year old boy trying to make their way, but making really bad decisions. Because now I've changed that perspective and sometimes having those really bad things happen to you can be turned into such a positive. Yeah, because, as humans, I remember I sat down with the river who ran the man circle. I asked him what is this all about? What is life all about? And he just said something similar to the guy who helped you I spent X amount of years doing xyz and now I'm helping you. Yeah, and you will go on and you may help others. Yeah, and what are the purpose should you have in life?

Speaker 2:

yeah, and I would say I do that in my job yeah as a financial planner yeah I would say I do that as a friend, as a partner. Yeah, um, I hope um, not always perfect, um, but it has. It's turned into a positive. It's terrible, but it's turned into a positive.

Speaker 1:

Some people might listen to this podcast and think what the hell has this got to do with financial planning? Right, it has. It's got massive. Yeah. Yeah, this is like this, is it? Yeah, like financial planning. Whatever you want to do in life, right? Whatever service you're providing somebody else, what we have talked about today has everything to do with it. Yeah, everything to do with it.

Speaker 1:

Human connection, vulnerability, community honesty, trust, knowing yourself being a good human being is altruism. That is what makes you a success in life, because if you can fill your self-worth cup up and you can get up in the morning with an attitude of gratitude for what you have, you're winning. And if you can, if you can educate and create a safe space without making people feel uncomfortable, you're winning again. And a byproduct of that is you're going to be good, you're going to be successful and you're going to be secure, and you're going to be happy in life and you're a good yeah. So this if anyone's thinking, well, how's this got to do with financial planning? Wake up. Who's that? Who's that social media?

Speaker 1:

wake up I do, yeah, yeah wake up and realize that, okay, maybe you got to work on yourself. Yeah, maybe that's why you're not making great relationships absolutely, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

And it's hard because my first full year in sjp like we done well as a business, I've done well, um, and there is that part that is like there's always. I think there's always going to be that part of me that wonders have I fluked it? Yeah because as a child no like I think as a child no one ever told me what I could do yeah yeah, I can go to work and be good at what I, what I do, yeah, um, or that I'm yeah, that I can be what I am.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know, no one's giving that. No one's giving you that reassurance. No, let's end on this, okay. And what we're going to end on is you started at 19 years old right, you're on 14K as an administrator. You marketed yourself around different companies, you gained experience and you jumped from company to company. Some people would think that was negative, but in your career, that's been a positive experience, right. You've then gone from power planning into financial advice through St James's Place Academy. You've had excellent training and development and you've sought and found through your own efforts and your own journeys in life. You didn't even land it on your lap mate, right. You found it all A bloody good mentor. That mentor saw something good in you, right, so you were obviously giving something to receive something. Okay, over the last couple of years you've been working as a financial planner. You've won awards for St James's Place. You told me you've written over £300,000 of business within the last 12 months. Yeah, it was last calendar year. Yeah, last calendar year.

Speaker 1:

Asset centre management Now £18.5 million £18.5 million, yeah, asset center management now 18 and a half million. 18 and a half million, yeah, okay, and we only started really last april, started last april, okay. So just from my perspective of understanding the whole market and who I talk to and the different age of advisors and the different levels of experience, you are within the top one percent thank you.

Speaker 1:

So you are doing everything what you should be doing really, really well. Um, in comparison to other people, your age, in comparison to even people who are older than you, in the, in the time scales that they've that, they've done the job. You're light, light years ahead of so many people. So, thank you back yourself. Don't worry about that imposter syndrome. Let go of the idea that maybe am I, am I, you know. Was it a fluke or anything like that evidence suggests wasn't a fluke? It was your hard work that's done all of that and the only thing that's coming next is more successful you. Thank you. It's very kind, dylan. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you today. I really, really appreciate it. Thank you so much for your honesty, um, it's done me the world of good as well. So thank you, buddy, and good luck on your career. Thank you, cheers.

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