5 Star Wellbeing Podcast
5 Star Wellbeing Podcast
Tim Swackhammer - how to have a healthy home
Tim Swackhammer, founder and CEO of Mold Medics, is passionate about helping people with practical solutions to environmental issues within their homes, so they can feel safe and comfortable, and most importantly - well!
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Music by Ian Hildebrand
Okay, welcome everybody. Welcome back to another episode. Really interested and excited today to have a wonderful guest who I haven't had this type of guests for a little while and Tim's Swackhammer, who I'm about to speak with just reminded me that I did a while back have a building biologist, Laudy Cincotta on and I'll put the details of that episode in the show notes. But today, I'm really happy to be talking with Tim, who is the founder and the CEO of mold medics. Tim is passionate about helping people with practical solutions to environmental issues, so that they can feel safe, comfortable and well in their homes. Mold medics specializes in helping people who are suffering from chronic health issues either caused or worsened by their environments. As the highest rated mold remediation contractor in Pennsylvania, Tim has overseen more than 1700, mold removal projects, as well as countless other indoor air quality services, including RADON Mitigation, air duct cleaning, and various types of environmental testing. So welcome, Tim, I love to just start with a bit about you and your background. And you know, how you got to be where you are now doing what you are now what led up to that?
Tim Swackhammer:Yeah, well, thank you very much for having me on and excited to talk about what I think it's obviously a very important topic. And I think your listeners will definitely get a lot out of it. So yeah, I mean, my name is Tim Swackhammer. So whenever I originally got started, we didn't, didn't really set out to get into mold or indoor air quality issues. It's kind of a kind of a long story. But the more abbreviated version is was involved in franchising. And we actually were involved with a different home service franchise brand. And while we were there, that's when we saw the opportunity in the mold removal, an indoor air quality space, because we really saw that there were, especially in the states here, there's a lot of companies that are restoration contractors. So these would be your bigger like Servpros service masters. They're the ones that insurance companies call whenever there's a fire or a flood something major like that. And they need to come in and basically gut the place and slowly put it back together. But what we found is there wasn't really anybody out there for people who are just suffering from indoor air quality problems. So suffering from mold issues that were not due to a major flood that they had, but due to a flaw in the way the building was constructed, or ongoing minor, minor water intrusion from like leaky gutters or downspouts. And these, these clients were just kind of being left out in the cold. So that was initially the basis for mold medics. And then as we got more into the air indoor air quality space, we identified an even more specific need for a remediation contractor that was focused on individuals with sensitivities to mold with environment with histories of environmental exposure, where they might have a whole different set of needs than a more typical, like real estate related mold issue. So there's really with that basis when it came down to finding or we initially had a few customers that were in sort of that sensitive space, where To be frank, the first couple of times, we didn't really know what we were doing. For them specifically, we didn't really know how we needed to help address their specific problems. And so it came down to a ton of research. My wife always jokes that I don't have a hobby, and my hobby is researching other hobbies. And she's definitely right to a good extent. And I definitely fell into that space here where I became very, very focused on Okay, there are these people that have these issues, and there's not really anybody out there that can help them. So how can we develop the protocols and the processes to help these clients and it was a ton of research, independent and certifications with some of the national accredited agencies that do certifications for indoor air quality, and really just a ton of research through Facebook groups and really trying to learn what we could from the individuals and their specific experience. And then okay, how does that integrate with what we're doing?
Arwen Bardsley:And so you didn't yourself or have a family member or anything like that, in your background that had issues from indoor air quality that it didn't come from that it just came from seeing others
Tim Swackhammer:no, no, it was just really identifying with a lot of our clients that they were having these issues and having these problems, and there wasn't anybody that they could really turn to.
Arwen Bardsley:And so do you work with functional medicine practitioners, integrative doctors, or, you know, I don't know, naturopaths, even any other, you know, professionals who are coming across these people? Have you developed partnerships with people like that?
Tim Swackhammer:Yeah, so we've definitely worked with a number of different functional medicine and naturopaths in the immediate area, as well as some environmental consultants that do more on the testing and sort of diagnostic side. Yeah, so we work with a number of them as well. Because depending on exactly what the issue is, there's, most of the time, it's stuff that we can, we can help with. But there is some stuff, like certain VOCs that they they may need a different course of action depending on what's going on.
Arwen Bardsley:So are Environmental Consultants, more like building biologists.
Tim Swackhammer:So building biologist is honestly not a term that we use very frequently in the States. Environmental hygienist is typically the preferred term, but that they generally focus more on commercial applications. So a lot of the Environmental Consultants, they can be a variety of different things, most of them start as some sort of home inspector, or environmental tester, and then they just kind of expand their knowledge base and practice from there.
Arwen Bardsley:Okay. And so before you got into your working life, did you have any, you know, what were your interests when you were a teenager was Was there anything that might have, you know, led to this kind of field in the future?
Tim Swackhammer:Really, I mean, to be honest, the main thing is just that, that research drive, I always anytime is very, very curious kid and kind of carried that through my entire life. I think in another world, I probably would have gone down more of a medical type path. But I slightly dyslexic and school was really not my thing. It was a good bit of a struggle for the actual classroom element of it. But whenever it came to actually learning on my own, and particularly with topics that interested interested me, I was just like a sponge.
Arwen Bardsley:Wow, interesting. Okay. Well, thank you for that. So what would you say are the most common indoor air quality or, you know, home home or building environment issues that a lot of people are probably not aware of?
Tim Swackhammer:So one, it's interesting, because it's very, very regional. And prior to this conversation, I had not looked up radon, specifically for Australia. I was curious as to how much of an issue it was, there was it an issue at all. And from the research I was able to do, it's really not much of a problem where you're located. But it's a significant issue where we are. So that's something that is very, very much based on your region, and what part of the world you're located in, and the geology of that area.
Arwen Bardsley:So might as well go into that now? What is it?
Tim Swackhammer:Sure, so Radon is a gas that comes from the breakdown of uranium that's in the Earth's crust. So there's uranium throughout the soil and higher concentrations in certain areas than others. And as it goes through that radioactive decay, one of the steps that it are one of the byproducts that produces is radon gas, that radon gas emanates up through the soil and comes into our homes through cracks in the foundation through sewer lines, basically, anywhere that air could potentially get in, it seeps into the home. And once we breathe it in, it's a carcinogen, it causes lung cancer. So it continues to decay, it decays in our lung causing lung damage that can cause lung cancer on its own. In the US, it's the second leading cause of lung cancer behind smoking. And it can also if you are a smoker or you do other things that potentially damage your lungs, it can make it even worse. So it's a big, big issue. And it's something that is really kind of interesting, if you look at the history of it, because whenever we were first made aware of it and first became very public, through the 70s 80s and into the 90s. There was a fair amount of knowledge about it going around but a lot of people just kind of wrote it off because it's odorless, its has no color, it's completely colorless, tasteless. So we have no way of knowing about its presence through our normal olfactory senses. We just can't detect it at all. So unless we actually test for its presence in our home, we have no idea.
Arwen Bardsley:And so there are certainly places in Australia where there is uranium, we've, you know, had a history of mining it. So is it more where it's in that larger concentration? Or what
Tim Swackhammer:Yes, that's a great question. It is a combination of the actual geology in that specific area. And it does get very, very specific to what is the geology is literally under your home. So you do have regional variations that can be pretty significant. where I'm at in Pennsylvania through a lot of the the northeastern states, it's pretty prevalent, kind of wherever you are, but even within that you can have tremendous variations, just home to home to home.
Arwen Bardsley:Oh, okay, interesting. Okay, so then how do you test for it, there's some kind of detection device, presumably,
Tim Swackhammer:correct. There's passive radon tests, and a lot of them are, there's some DIY ones available that use a charcoal canister, or basically you set it out, it absorbs basically the air over a set period of time, generally two to four days. And then that gets sealed up and sent to a laboratory for analysis. Or most professionals use a radon CRM or continuous radon monitor. And that's a mechanical device that basically pulls a sample of the air, generally, it's going to be every 10 minutes every hour, and tests for the radon concentrations.
Arwen Bardsley:Okay. And so if somebody does have a radon issue, then what can be done about it.
Tim Swackhammer:Yeah, so we install what are called RADON Mitigation systems. So it's interesting whenever we talk about indoor air quality issues, when we're talking about like mold, it's remediation because we're trying to resolve and remove the mold from the home in the first place. But whenever it comes to radon, you can't remediate it, because it's constantly going to be trying to get back in and emanating into the home. So it is mitigation. So basically, what that system looks like, is a PVC pipe that goes down below the foundation of your home, and gets installed and exhausted out to the exterior above your roofline. And it has a RADON Mitigation fan that's installed on that. So essentially, your entire sub slab underneath your foundation is put under a negative pressure. So all of those soil gases are redirected instead of seeping up through the cracks in your foundation, they go into that PVC pipe and then get exhausted up above your home. So it's not accumulating in your indoor environment.
Arwen Bardsley:Okay, and then Then what about then it's going out into the air above your home, and it's still in the air and you know, in the neighborhood, potentially, you might have, you know, a whole lot of homes with these pipes. What's the deal then with with the general air quality of the neighborhood, or whatever.
Tim Swackhammer:So for the most part, the concentrations, once they mix with the natural outdoor air get down to a low enough level that it's not a health health issue. It's really whenever it's in our homes, homes are subjected to what's called the stack effect, which is basically our homes act like a giant chimney. So it's at a more negative pressure lower in the home, and then the air basically gets sucked in from your base level, whether it's your basement crawlspace, if you have one, or if it's a slab on grade, it would be that main floor, and then that air moves naturally up through the home. So that basement tends to be under a much higher degree of suction. So it's actually sucking in the gas from around the home. And that's why it can begin to accumulate and then homes typically don't exhaust very well and they're not really designed to so it gets trapped. And that's where the radon levels can accumulate to levels that they can get very unsafe.
Arwen Bardsley:Right and so is that isn't more of an issue in our modern homes now that are built to as you said, kind of keep everything in well, you know, all into insulation and all that sort of stuff rather than airflow like old homes would have been so isn't more of a problem because of that?
Tim Swackhammer:yeah, definitely can because you're older homes, they they breathe more. Now thankfully, we're starting to get to a place where I mean I looking at it sort of historically, indoor air quality wasn't a huge, huge issue for many, many years. I mean, it was but not in the same way that it is now. Because of a lot of the materials that we used in the types of building construction. They did breathe more. They were poorly insulated. So air moved through the home pretty rapidly. So you had a lot more diffusion with the outdoor air. And then as time progressed, we went to a period, especially in the states here where we did some things that were great for efficiency, but very, very bad for indoor air quality. We're building homes very, very tight. We're not allowing them to breathe at all. And there's some of those situations that we still come across from the 80s and 90s, where they cause mold problems, because of the ways that they were constructed, and just doing things that at the time, we thought was a great idea. And now we know, it wasn't as well as the building materials that we use being more susceptible to water and everything like that. But now we're finally getting to a point where we're recognizing more of the indoor air quality implications. And there are a lot of devices like ERVs or HRVs, which are heat recovery ventilators or energy recovery ventilators. And these are devices that are designed to bring in outdoor air and exhaust the stale air from our homes. So going back to that idea that homes need to breathe, but doing it in a way that it's controlled, and it is controlling for the temperature. So we're not wasting tons of electricity or energy, trying to keep our home conditioned, while at the same time letting it breathe, which is always that kind of balance.
Arwen Bardsley:Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. No, thank you. No, I think it was exactly the same here as far as how homes were built. But I do certainly, you know, this is a podcast, there's a global audience. So I think it's still good for people who aren't in Australia to get the information. And I was listening to and I can't remember his name off the top of my head now. But there was another building environment specialist who I was listening to on the low tox life podcast, who's a guy who's based in America as well. And building contractor by trade, but then he's gone into this whole specialization of making sure the homes that are built are healthy. And as you said, yes, the buildings need to breathe, but he made this comment of well No, it's actually the people in the buildings that need to breathe, and they need to be breathing good quality air, obviously. Yeah, great. So with radon, then, like, how would somebody know that they had an issue? Is it just unfortunately, that they become sick? Or what happens?
Tim Swackhammer:Testing, testing is really the only way to actually confirm that there is an issue there, and know that you need to have some sort of mitigation put in.
Arwen Bardsley:But so why would somebody know to test? I guess is what my question is.
Tim Swackhammer:Yeah. So that's an that's a great question. And that is the challenge with radon period. Because, thankfully, again, doctors are starting to get better at recognizing more links between environmental issues and health. But that's not always the first thing that they jump to. So even once it starts to become a health issue, that may not be something that's immediately identified as a possible cause. But by that point, the damage is mostly done. So it really comes down to a lot of what I'm doing is trying to educate and make sure that people are aware of these potential issues. And no, I mean, especially depending on again, it's very regionally based, but a lot of the states that have significant radon issues through the local Department of Environmental Protection, you can contact them, and in many cases, they'll send you a free or completely or greatly discounted test. So it's not something that's prohibitively expensive. It's really just about awareness.
Arwen Bardsley:Oh, okay. Interesting, right. Alright, so, what else? So let's talk about mold, I think, you know, more and more people are becoming aware of the issues with mold that, you know, we've got nearly 25% of our population who, genetically are unable to live with mold toxicity, or, you know, not unable to live, but there'll be very unwell. So, I guess, just to talk to us about that toxic black mold, especially. And I'm interested in the whole thing about remediation, versus removal as well with mold.
Tim Swackhammer:So yeah, I mean, oh, it's a very interesting topic. And like you pointed out, thankfully, we're starting to get a lot more aware of it. And there's a lot more knowledge floating around about mold, which is very much a good thing, because for years and years, people would immediately write it off. It's not a big issue or, Oh, let me just spray some bleach on it or a whole variety of different things that, again, at the time, we thought might have been a good idea. And now we know is definitely, definitely not the case. So whenever it comes to mold, I really like to, from an education standpoint, focus on first and foremost, the prevention. Because at the end of the day, that's going to be the best line of defense against mold problems is, what can we do to prevent them from occurring in the first place, because once you have one, it gets more difficult, it gets more expensive. And it's just a lot more challenging. So if we can prevent it from coming up in the first place, that's always going to be my first choice, whenever possible. And whenever we talk about prevention, I like to start with there's there's four things that mold needs to grow. The first thing that it needs is air, which we also need air, so we can't control that it needs a temperature range, that is basically the same temperature range that we need our homes to be. So we can't control that. And it also needs food sources, and a food source for mold. I mean, mold, and it's that natural outdoor environment is breaking down dead plant material. So that's why it's on Earth. That's what it does, that's its part in the whole circle of life is plants die, they need to be broken down. And mold does that. The downside is we also build our homes out of dead plant material. So no matter what we're providing it a food source with almost all of the construction materials that we're using. Some and we'll talk about that in a little bit can be definitely better choices than others there. But no matter what, we can't really control the food source aspect of it altogether. The final thing that it needs is moisture, and moisture is something that we can control. Now it does get difficult because we have I like to kind of break down the moisture in the two different buckets. Because whenever we talk about how to identify and prevent them, they're really kind of two different situations. And the first one would be actual water intrusion. So having this would be a foundation water intrusion, where you've got water coming in from the outside pipe leaks are the things that people tend to think about whenever they think about a mold issue. And then the second category would be humidity issues. And these we see very, very frequently, it's a lot more common than people recognize, and they're a lot harder to initially identify, and really try to figure out okay, where's this coming from? Or is even is it here in the first place?
Arwen Bardsley:Yeah, so how can you talk a bit more about that, how we can realize that we've got that mold going on?
Tim Swackhammer:Yeah, so talking about the the water intrusion side. Again, it breaks down into a couple of different buckets for ways that we get water in our homes. So the most common is going to be water intrusion from the exterior. So obviously, we have rain, we have all kinds of different weather conditions that can occur on the outside of our home. And the home, if it's designed and built well and maintained well should be keeping that moisture on the outside of the house it doesn't always do that. So there's a couple of different things that we see very frequently. The grading around the home, gutters and downspouts are some of the most common issues that we see where so whenever we talk about grading, we're talking about basically how the Earth is sloped coming up to your house. And this is something that it should be sloping away so that as you have rain, it comes it hits the house, it runs down and then it should run away from the house. If it's sloping towards the home hasn't been maintained. Now we've got that rain, it's going to pool and then it's going to begin to accumulate at the foundation. And eventually even with the best waterproofing materials it's going to begin to come in. So grading is definitely very important. Downspouts, so whenever we have gutters and downspouts, we want to make sure that they're kept clean, we want to make sure that they're functioning properly so that the rain that's landing on the roof is being redirected to the gutters where it's being captured, runs down the downspouts and then away from the home. A lot of times what we see here is gutters that are completely clogged. So then they get rain that overflows runs down the side of the house, we get downspouts that are completely disconnected or broken at the bottom from somebody hitting it with the lawnmower. And now we've redirected all of that water from the roof and we're putting it just that one corner of the foundation because the downspouts not functioning. So all of those can begin to allow water to come in from the outside which is definitely whenever we talk about exterior water intrusion, that's probably the most common is some sort of grading gutter or downspout issue. But then it's also more basic stuff your windows doors making sure that the seals on those are in good condition operable and making sure that any caulking that needs done is kept up on and it's not dried and cracking to the point where it's allowing water inside these areas and then ends up creating a mold problem. So from the exterior side, that's really those are kind of the big areas. But inside our homes, there's a number of sources sources of moisture as well. So we have obviously plumbing, which is a very, very big one, both your high pressure water lines, as well as your low pressure sewer systems. These are mechanical systems that can be subject to failure. So everything from lines freezing, if it gets too cold, and the home isn't kept up, or it has maybe a crawlspace, that's not well insulated, it can get cold, you end up with pipes breaking, and now you've got moisture issues that will contribute to mold to something that we see unfortunately, all the time, which people hanging stuff on their walls, and not really thinking about what's behind it, and you put a nail or a screw through a drain line or a water line. And now you've got a leak inside the wall cavity. And whenever we have any of that go on, whether it's exterior water, water infiltration, or something like a plumbing line, and it's happening inside that wall cavity. It can go on for a really long time before we actually notice anything on the inside.Those can be very problematic.
Arwen Bardsley:So is there a way that somebody can be aware of where they're hitting their nails into their walls to hang their pictures?
Tim Swackhammer:Yeah, so I mean, stuff like utilizing stud finders, make sure if you are, if you are hanging anything that especially if it needs to be hung from a stud, you're using that rather than just poking holes in the drywall and hoping for the best. And also just, it's really hard. If it's a new construction, I always really, really strongly advocate for a variety of reasons, go through as many as as many times as you can walk through the home, film everything so that you can reference it back later. That's something that can be very, very useful. So you know, where your pipes are, you know, where your electric lines are all that kind of stuff, and you can avoid those issues going forward. But if it's not new construction, and so home, that you're just moving into, look at the home and just kind of think about where everything needs to go. So if I'm looking at a wall, and I know that there's a bathroom up above it, and it's the same wall that has maybe the shower drain, or the vanities on, I know that somewhere right in that area, there's going to be water lines, and there's going to be sewer lines. And just really kind of thinking through that, because for the most part, builders try to do things efficiently. So generally, you're going to have those lines that are in areas where it makes sense. If there's a kitchen up above it, you're going to have it right under the sink, it's going to run down that wall. So just sort of thinking through a lot of that stuff before you go and just start pounding a hole through the wall and hope for the best.
Arwen Bardsley:Yeah. And so if you have a situation where water is coming, or water is pooling in the wall, or whatever it is, at so is is any mold that develops from that kind of scenario, the toxic black mold,
Tim Swackhammer:not necessarily so whenever we talk about toxic black mold, I like to be very careful because it does it there's no real formal definition for it. But generally, whenever people talk about toxic mold, black mold, they're referring to Stachybotrys, which is a very, very prevalent type of mold, especially whenever we talked about ones that can negatively impact health, no amount of molds or no active mold growth is something that we want in the home. So whenever it comes to remediation, we're going to treat it all basically the same. But from a health implication standpoint, there definitely are some that are known to be more health impacting molds than others. That being said that, again, a lot of it comes down to identifying things quickly. So if you do notice an issue, taking an extra step to investigate things like bubbling paint, if you notice any paint on any sort of painted surface that starts to bubble or starts to flake away, chances are that means that there's some level of water intrusion coming in from the backside of that that's causing that bubbling, it's causing that material to swallow. And that's a big indicator that you might have a growth issue. Something I'm a big advocate on and actually just got done recording a video for our website about this earlier today. clutter in the home is a huge, huge, huge thing. Clutter is depending on what it is it can cause a mold problem it can be if you're talking about like cardboard boxes and things like that we see all the time people will use those for storage. They'll have an unfinished storage area or unfinished basement and they'll store a bunch of stuff in cardboard boxes all along the foundation wall. Well, what happens is they end up having some level of moisture intrusion come in from that outside, it gets into that cardboard. Cardboard immediately soaks it up. It's an organic material that provides a great food source for mold. And now we've got a big mold problem that's hidden behind those boxes. And because there's so much clutter, whenever they go in, they can't see it, because it's on the backside. So it's not until they start digging through and reorganizing things that they actually notice, hey, there's this mold problem going on, and they can start to actually resolve it. So utilizing different materials utilizing storage racks, keeping things away from foundation walls, so when there is an issue, you're going to notice it a whole lot sooner. The very typical thing we see with finished walls for instance, is they'll first notice it right above the baseboard, they'll see like a little bit of dark coloration starts to come in above the baseboard, or a little bit of bubbling on the drywall or plaster above the baseboard. And that's typically when we'll get a call, we come out. And once we set up the containment and everything, we begin the removal process. And generally once we remove that baseboard, we see that it is a whole lot worse than what they saw, they saw just the tip of the iceberg coming out of the top, but the entire baseboard is absolutely covered. And then whenever we open up the wall cavity, absolutely covered inside the wall cavity as well.
Arwen Bardsley:All right, so talk to us about then what do you do in that situation? What is the process of getting rid of it?
Tim Swackhammer:Yeah, so whenever we talk about remediation, and remediation versus removal, there's a whole bunch of different articles and stuff written about this. And there's, again, not a real great consensus on it. But generally, I like to think of it like this remediation is the entire process that should be gone through to resolve a mold problem. And removal is just that one step of the process. So whenever we're talking about the the process as a whole, and depending on what company you're working with, they may do things slightly differently, but it's generally going to look pretty similar. And really the first step, there's always going to be containment. So and this whenever I talk to people who are interested in pursuing a DIY mold remediation project, this is the part that I always heavily emphasize and caution them on because it's part that I see done improperly or omitted completely the most. And this is where you're actually setting up containment. So generally, it's going to be plastic barriers, you're going to seal off any of your air registers basically anywhere that air could pass outside of the area that you're working, and that you're performing the remediation, you want to have that contained off from the rest of the home. Because if you don't do that, you're going to end up spreading these problems to other areas and contaminating the other areas of the home. Whenever we go through and actually begin the removal process, and we're tearing out drywall or other building material, a lot of times that does cause more particulate more mold spores to become airborne. And we don't want to do that without proper containment and control measures setup. So control setting up that containments very important. And then whenever we talk about control measures, it's air scrubbers with possibly negative pressure depending on the situation. And these are basically big HEPA filtering, box fans essentially that take dirty air runs through a series of filters and then exhaust much cleaner air. And in some cases, depending on if we're able to, they'll be set up with negative pressure. So they'll actually be exhausting to the exterior of the home. And that's really preferable whenever we can because what that does is whenever we set up our containment, no matter what no containment is going to be 100% Perfect, it's not going to be completely airtight, it's always going to be some gaps, some cracks in the walls, whatever, where air can possibly pass through, what we want to do is by setting up negative pressure, it keeps that area of that we're working under negative pressure. So there's always a suction there. So if there are any gaps in the containment or any areas that air is leaking through, it's going to be pulling air air from the other areas of the home into the contained space rather than pushing that contaminated air out of the containment. So very, very important steps and again, that's probably the biggest one that a lot of homeowners and that sort of the DIY side tends to omit or not really thinks as important and they just get right to the actual removal process. So
Arwen Bardsley:ok so once you've contained yet what what do you look for removal process?
Tim Swackhammer:Yeah, so once we've got full containment and air control measures set up that's going to be removal. And this is going to vary greatly, depending on the individual situation. But we're removing basically anything that is water damaged, anything that is that has active mold growth on it. We're physically removing, cutting out and bagging using a special doublebag method to make sure that, again, we're not contaminating any other areas of the home and safely removing it from the environment. Certain types of surfaces can be cleaned, but for the most part, it's generally going to be an actual removal of the Building Material Itself.
Arwen Bardsley:Wow. So it's, you know, basically rebuilding that part of the home that's had the damage.
Tim Swackhammer:Correct? Correct. Yeah. And it again, it depends on what what type of surface it is, what environment it is. A lot of times we see stuff like, carpeting is one of the biggest issues, it's not good for indoor air quality period, particularly if there's a mold issue. There's just no way to get it 100% clean. So generally, that's something that's going to be removed no matter what.
Arwen Bardsley:Yeah, yeah. Okay. And so if it's a surface that can be, first of all, what surfaces can be cleaned? And what's the cleaning process if that's available?
Tim Swackhammer:Yeah, so really, whenever we talk about cleaning, it's going to be limited to your hard non porous surfaces that are not an organic material. So this is going to be stuff like your plastics, your metals, glass, any of those are going to be surfaces where they can have mold on them. But whenever they do, it's mold that's growing on the dust that is accumulated on the surface, not growing onto the material itself. Because again, they need that the mold needs that organic material as its food source. So if it's a wood surface, or drywall, where it's got like paper, it's going to actually be building or be growing through the surface. So that definitely needs to go. But like a lot of times in bathrooms, there's more tile surfaces or plastic surfaces that can be cleaned rather than removed.
Arwen Bardsley:And what do you use to clean mold and talk to I just remind everybody who might not be aware about the fact that bleach is not the thing to use?
Tim Swackhammer:Yes. So there's, whenever it comes to what is actually used to clean there's a variety of different products, really, any type of cleaning should consist of a minimum of two steps. And this is where unfortunately, a lot of the the marketing has really gone way too far and sort of oversold. And there are even a lot of companies especially where we're at that utilize a spray and pray method of mold remediation where basically, they coat it in some sort of antimicrobial or disinfectant, and then call it good. And that's definitely not what a proper remediation should look like. That's basically the the analogy we always use is imagine you cook yourself a big breakfast, you had bacon, eggs, all that kind of stuff, you're going to make a bit of a mess in the kitchen, there's going to be some grease on the counter, there's going to be crumbs, all of that. And just using a And what about concrobium? Do you have that over there? product just using an antimicrobial or disinfectant is the equivalent of saying that you're going to clean the kitchen by spraying a bunch of Lysol on it and then walking away. We know that's not doing what it actually needs to do. So anytime we're talking about cleaning, it needs to involve a removal of the biofilm that's built up. So basically, full removal of anything that's built up on the surface. And that can be done through a variety of different really any type of basic cleaner for the most part, certain surfaces are going to need some neat things that have a greater cleaning ability or a greater ability to break down grease and things like that. So they can actually come clean. But really we're talking about just in many cases, it can even be just water and soap to get it to get it clean and remove that biofilm. And then once that biofilm has been removed, and the surface is clean of any dust and any buildup, that's whenever it's about applying an actual disinfectant to make sure that anything that could be lingering, is completely killed and not going to be a problem going forward. So for that there's there's a variety of different products on the market. One of the ones that we utilize a lot is product from a company called Beneffect. Its product called decon 30 it is a thyme oil based product. So we always like to use it's very much a balance between effectiveness and safety and finding where on that continuum, we need to be based on the individual situation. So we try to be as far down the safety road as we can, with it still being effective. Because unfortunately, there's there's a variety of products that you potentially could use that may be very, very safe, but they're not going to be as effective as they should. So that's, that's one of the ones that we definitely utilize. We also utilize hypochlorous acid, which is something that is great because we're able to, we actually are able to produce it on site. It is the ingredients in it are vinegar, water and salt. And then it runs it through and basically has electrodes inside the machine that chang the way the molecules are bonded together. So instead of just being that mixture of water, salt and vinegar, it creates hypochlorous acid, which is a chemical compound, it's the same thing that our white blood cells create to fight off infection. It's an extremely potent disinfectant while having a excellent safety profile. So that's something that we definitely utilize, because it's got a wide variety of application for our business. So we do have it in the States in general, I'm familiar with it. To be honest, we have not used it to any degree of we haven't used it extensively. I think it's probably an effective product. Where I do get a little bit cautious with that is some of the ways that I've seen it marketed or recommended does very much go down that kind of spray and pray just put it in a fogger and apply it and then you'll be good. Yeah. And that's that always sends my spidey senses, tingling. Don't necessarily love to see that.
Arwen Bardsley:Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I've certainly used it myself and the product that I have, you do spray it on, but then you do have to scrub it off. I mean, really, what, what you're saying is there's got to be some elbow grease of either machine elbow grease or human Elbow, elbow grease to actually remove the problem?
Tim Swackhammer:Yeah. Yeah, you're not going to, it's never going to be a situation where you can just throw it into a ULP fogger. And just spray it and then Okay, great. We're done. Yeah, it would be nice if it worked that way. But that's just not not reality. But the disinfectant at the end of the day, I always like to think of it, it's, it's almost the least important part of the process, because that's really just there to capture everything that we couldn't physically remove. And if we're leaning on that, and we're relying on that, it means we did not do a great job with the rest of the processes that are there.
Arwen Bardsley:So and yeah, just to go back to bleach. So bleach products, really are just literally bleaching changing the color of the mold on the surface and not dealing with the underlying roots of the mold. Even if we're just talking about, you know, your bathroom tiles in your shower. So what would you recommend for that? You know, I guess, common or garden mold that, you know, a lot of people do have, especially in their bathrooms or other wet spaces within the home, what should they be doing to remove that or deal with that?
Tim Swackhammer:Yeah, so the the first thing on the the bleach topic, that problem problem with bleach, there's really two big ones. The first is that when bleach kills mold, basically it's it's essentially a one to one ratio that bleach's energy is consumed by the process of killing mold. So after you apply the bleach, what you're left over with is a whole bunch of water. And that's deeply problematic, because now you've got, you've basically just fed whatever is remaining after you've applied the bleach, so it doesn't do a very effective job at actually killing mold. And again, a lot of your 100%, right, it does oxidize, and it can dye the surface. So it basically changes the color, which can help make you think that it's gone, but is not necessarily addressing the underlying issue. As far as the bathrooms in sort of those kinds of issues, or those kinds of areas, it really depends on mainly the surface that we're talking about. So is it a porous surface where we're concerned about the water getting in, in which case now that's a removal process that needs to actually be removed from the environment? Or is it just something where it's building up, shower hasn't been cleaned very frequently, there's some biofilm skin cells, all that kind of stuff that can feed the mold, and now we need to clean that which really to be honest at most of your bathroom cleaners, whether they be more on the safe and non toxic side are going to do a good enough job at actually removing what you're looking at and removing the growth if it's on top of a nonporous finished surface, but it's whenever a lot of these products and where a lot of the differences come in is when they're trying to reach into, okay, now we can treat porous surfaces too, and we can permeate through it and that most of the time just doesn't really happen. And that's where you end up with products like bleach that visually will make it look like it's done, but does not have the desired effect.
Arwen Bardsley:Yeah, yeah. And the, like the grouting, I don't know, if you use the same word between the tiles is, is certainly porous, isn't it?
Tim Swackhammer:It is So it should be sealed. And which they actually use that product. And, sure, there's a variety of different sealants work that helped to provide that waterproofing and help to seal the pores, so that it will grow again, on top of the surface rather than growing through the surface.
Arwen Bardsley:Yeah. But yeah, it's a really good point about, as you've said all along, you know, the first thing to do is to basically remove the food for the mold. So cleaning the shower regularly is something that's going to be a great preventative measure. And I remember from the conversation I had with Laudy, the building biologist, she said, you know, really, you should squeegee your shower, every time you have a shower. And that is something that I have started doing, since that conversation. And you know, it's really such a quick and easy thing to do. And you're then you're removing the water that's lying around, you're removing some of the skin cells or whatever other foods you were were providing for mold. So great.
Tim Swackhammer:The The other big tip I would throw in there is a lot of times whenever we see showers or bathrooms that have more extensive mold issues, especially in those corners in the grout, a lot of times it comes down to improper maintenance or maintenance that hasn't been done correct, frequently or correctly. So the grout again, it needs to be sealed. That is something that those Sealants are generally applied when it's first installed. But they do need to be reapplied. So that is that is a maintenance item that needs to be done. Same thing. caulking around the shower. That's something that is huge. And caulk, caulking does not last forever at all. It breaks down with time it breaks down with sun exposure, it breaks down with temperature and humidity changes. So these are things that do need to be kept up on and maintained. And if you do a good job with that, you're going to end up with a fairly waterproof surface where now we're only talking about surface issues. Whereas if those things fall behind, and we end up with cracked caulking, where water is able to seep down in now we've got a much bigger issue because it's going to begin to permeate into the building materials beneath that.
Arwen Bardsley:Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that. So let's just talk for a few minutes remaining about if someone's building a new home, or they're doing a major renovation to a home. I guess, you know, you would hope that the people, the contractors you're using to go through that process, will know something about indoor air quality, but a lot of the time unfortunately, they still don't. So what what would your suggestions be for people like what kind of specialists? Can they engage to help them in that process? Or what can they just be aware of themselves to keep an eye out for?
Tim Swackhammer:Yeah, so first and foremost, sort of the most obvious side, I'm a huge advocate as much as you can be on site, be present, and make sure that you won't necessarily, depending on who you're working with, they might not always love that. But if you're polite and friendly, and bring doughnuts or whatever, frequently, they'll generally be a little bit more accommodating. But at the end of the day, it is your home. So you want to make sure you're seeing the different stages of it. You're understanding how it's going up. And you're asking a lot of those questions throughout the process to try to understand as much as you can. So you can be your own advocate on the job site. And one of the biggest issues we see with mold growth for new construction is materials that are left on a building site that are exposed to the elements. Sometimes they're left on the ground. So they'll bring in a whole truckload of two by fours and framing materials and they'll just set it on the ground and then it'll be left uncovered for weeks, if not months, while the building process goes on. And then you have as you begin to build you notice that there's mold growth on a lot of these materials. And whenever we talk about the building materials, Our solid wood materials. So things like two by fours were it's one solid piece of lumber that's milled. It's definitely more susceptible to mold growth than the older versions because of the way that it's grown and harvested. Now, that's just not as dense, it's a lot more porous than older materials were. But it's still way better than a lot of the manufactured building materials. Things like MDF plywood, a lot of these molded products are basically some form of wood shavings or sawdust that's basically glued together, which makes an extremely porous material where mold can go straight through, these generally are going to be much more sensitive to moisture, and mold issues are going to appear on them much, much, much faster. So it's really important to just be diligent about how the materials are being handled prior to and after they're being installed. And working with a contractor that understands those concerns and is going to be it's going to actually honor them and follow through with it. I mean, I, I see all the time new construction, we've got a lot of it in this area where homes are left exposed to the elements with no roof on for months. And it is just getting rain shower, after rain shower, things are completely saturated. And at the end of the day, you're probably going to experience some sort of issue from that. So whenever we talk about different consultants, definitely making sure your architect or whoever you're working with on that understands what your needs and desires are. And they can help work with you on some choices that are simply better. Because there are things that are better and worse for keeping mold and moisture out. Things like how much of an overhang do you have on your roof versus not, if you have a larger overhang, it's going to do a much better job of keeping the rain off of your siding, keeping the rain out of the inside of the home. Whereas if you have virtually no overhang, it's not going to do that your roof should basically be a big umbrella for the rest of the home. And the smaller you make it the worse of a job it's going to do things that we see a lot like flat roofs, which is a style choice a lot more most modern homes will go that route. And it's they can be done well. But it's a lot harder to do a flat roof, right, and to actually execute on it to the point where you're not going to have water issues. In particularly later, if you have DirecTV or one of the satellite companies come and install a satellite on your roof now, you've got a flat roof that has perforations in it from them installing that. And it's very, very easy for a problem to begin. So just making sure whoever you're working with understands those concerns and is able to work with you to help prevent those from being issues going forward. And there's, I know from listening to some of the prior podcasts that you had on as well, you're aware of the wide spectrum that you can go in terms of indoor air quality issues, and that in what you do to build in a way that prevents those everything from EMF radiation, to what types of products that you're using for VOCs. And off gassing. There's, again a whole for each product that you're choosing, there's a spectrum, and it's about selecting the right ones for your individual needs and your individual concerns. And to put it bluntly, your budget, because that definitely does factor in as well. And there's there's some areas that you can spend more money and get a lot more of an air quality ROI than others.
Arwen Bardsley:Yeah. Great. Thank you. And so for people who are not lucky enough to live in Pittsburgh, where you are, what are your tips for how we can find appropriate and skilled professionals to assist in dealing with existing indoor air quality or indoor environmental issues?
Tim Swackhammer:Yeah, so great question. First, I'd say we are franchising so we are actively looking to expand our footprint but keeping it to the states for now. So that we can can service more more people in more different areas. That being said, whenever you're looking for an indoor air quality contractor, there's a couple things that I really recommend. First one being make sure you check with your locality and figure out okay, what are the requirements for somebody that's doing this because above all, you do want to make sure that they are legally able to be doing the services that they're offering. Because if they're not that does not bode well for The rest of the service as a whole. So checking to make sure that they're properly licensed, insured, and able to do what they're doing. After that, I like to look at some of the national and international third party certifications. In the States, I'm not sure what you guys have in Australia. But around here we have the IICRC ACAC. I, AQa are all independent organizations that focus on either indoor air quality problems or restoration. So those can be some good resources. But really, a lot of it's going to come down to researching the company themselves. Once you've got it narrowed down, you've got a few options. Going through taking the time look at reviews, ask for references. And just inform yourself as much as you can on what the process should like, should look like so that you can grill them and make sure that they know what they're doing. And they really understand, especially if you're somebody who has a history of toxic mold exposure and sensitive sensitivities to mold or other indoor air quality issues, making sure they understand that, and they really get what you're going through. So it's not just another okay, this is just another project. And we're going to do things the exact same way that we've done for everybody else, but they understand what the process should look like and what your individual needs are.
Arwen Bardsley:And yeah, having said that, people need to understand what the process should look like. You mentioned before we started recording that one of your passions is, you know, education and getting getting the information out there for people. So I understand you have a number of videos or you've got information, I'm not sure what format it's all in. But do you want to just talk a bit about that as well?
Tim Swackhammer:Yeah, so we try to keep a very active blog on our website that has a variety of issues. Generally, we have our weekly team meeting and we go through with, okay, what questions have we heard from people recently? Try to make sure everybody brings five to each meeting so that we can figure out okay, what are we hearing? What do people want or need to know? And then try to produce resources on that. So on our website, we've got blog posts available, we've got videos that are also on YouTube, and then on our social medias will generally share everything as well. So Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, all those
Arwen Bardsley:Okay, so and on all of those on socials is it mold medics is what people would look for.
Tim Swackhammer:If you search for mold, medics, you'll see our our little logo, and that'll be us. There are there are a couple others that may come up. But generally, that's if you look for that you'll see us we try to keep everything branded pretty consistently so that people are able to identify what's our stuff and know it and know that it's going to be decent, reliable information.
Arwen Bardsley:And what is your website, Tim?
Tim Swackhammer:It's just MoldMedics.com.
Arwen Bardsley:Okay, and just for my Australian listeners, just remembering I'd look, you'd probably find it anyway. But we usually spell mold with a U in it. So M-O-U-L-D. But um, it's M-O-L-D. So is there anything else that you would like to share about your service offerings with people before we finish up, Tim?
Tim Swackhammer:No, I mean, the biggest thing, again, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. So identifying issues quickly. And if you see something, investigate it, figure out what's going on, and try to get it resolved. Because if you people far too often will see a problem. And they'll identify that it's an issue they should probably fix. But it's not top of mind. It's not they've got other things going on in their life. So the Let, let it go on. And that just gives it a lot more time to become a much bigger issue than it needs to be. So if you see something, investigate it, and begin resolving it quickly, rather than trying to kick the can down the road and address it later.
Arwen Bardsley:If you say something, do something.
Tim Swackhammer:Yep. Absolutely.
Arwen Bardsley:Yeah. All right. Great. Well, it's been a really interesting conversation. I'm so appreciative that I got to pick your brain on all this stuff, Tim, because I think it's so important for everybody. And you know that these issues can really affect people's health and well being and and as you said, at some point during the conversation, a lot of a lot more doctors and health professionals are becoming aware of it, but it's certainly usually not the first thing that they'll think about when they're trying to understand why somebody is experiencing health issues. So it's really good if we have that information ourselves to be able to be proactive and preventative about our health. So I really appreciate your time today. Tim, thank you so much for coming on.
Tim Swackhammer:Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me I think I think it went really well and I really love what you guys are doing
Arwen Bardsley:Thank you