The Wild Photographer
Learn techniques, tips, and tricks for improving your wildlife, travel, landscape, and general nature photography with Court Whelan. Whether you consider yourself a beginner, serious hobbyist, or advanced professional, this is the way to rapidly understand and implement new skills to elevate your photography to new heights.
The Wild Photographer
Talking with Chris Burkard: Ultra-wide Landscapes, Adaptability, and Why Visualizing the Outcome is Essential for the Best Photography
Chris is one of the most accomplished and talented photographers in today's day and age, known for everything from extraordinary aerial landscape photography, to surf photography, to epic storytelling in the nature and adventure space. He's authored multiple books, has directed and produced sensational films, and has a business acumen that has made him a household name in the world of outdoor photography.
In this episode we talk about so many things in the photography world, but go deeper into the psyche of photographers with topics like goal-setting and why it's important to "make your own quotes" in the work you produce.
And it goes without saying his advice to photographers (and videographers) at all levels on the storytelling element of photography is par excellence.
You can find more on Chris Burkard at www.ChrisBurkard.com
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My Full Camera Kit:
Canon R5 Body
Canon RF 15-35mm f/2.8
Canon RF 24-105mm f/4
Canon RF 100-500mm f/4.5-7.1
Canon RF 70-200 f/2.8
Canon EF Macro 100mm f/2.8
Canon RF 50mm f/1.8
Peak Design Carbon Fiber Tripod
My guest today is Chris Burkhardt. Chris is one of the most accomplished and talented photographers in today's day and age, known for everything from extraordinary aerial landscape photography to surf photography, to epic storytelling and I really do mean epic in the nature and adventure space. He's authored multiple books, has directed and produced sensational films and has a business acumen that has made him truly a household name in the world of outdoor photography. In this episode we talk about so many things in the photographic world, but we also go deeper into the psyche of photographers with topics like goal setting and why it's important to make your own quotes I'm doing that in air quotes to enhance the work you produce. And he goes without saying that his advice to photographers and videographers at all levels on the storytelling element is par excellence. So join me today to welcome esteemed photographer Chris Burkhardt.
Chris:Stoked to be here Court. Thank you so much for having me.
Court:You're a man of many talents, I am a man of many questions and so to cover all the talents, as many as possible, in this next bit I'm just going to straight up launch into it. So the first question I have is kind of a little bit of an easier one. But you are known so much for aerial photography. I'm wondering what are some tips for folks photographing from planes, like lens selections. Do you get shots in the plane? I know that the knee-jerk reaction is probably to think of like doors off right, but a lot of times we're in small bush planes, we're cruising over amazing landscapes and we just don't have that ability. So kind of walk me through your thought process. Do you bring a spare lens? Do you have your wide angle? Do you have a telephoto? What's going through your mind as you're getting aerial shots? Do you have your wide angle? Do you have a telephoto? What's going through your mind as you're getting aerial shots? You are the maestro at it.
Chris:So yeah, it's an excellent question. You know, to be honest, the biggest and most important thing is knowing what you're flying in right and and knowing the plane, and that just comes with experience. I think one of the tough things about you know any sort of facet of photography or any sort of more niche genre is that is that you know you have to sort of really get to know the craft intimately. And I'm sure it's similar. You know, I've never shot on safari, but I'm sure it's similar to that. You know, like what are you? What are you actually driving in? What's the car, what's the rig like? You know what's how, you know accessible and how boots in the ground? Are you going to be with a plane or, you know, with a helicopter? It's the same thing. Are you in a you know, cessna 172? Are you in a bush plane, a proper bush plane? Are you in a Piper Cub? Are you going to be in a helicopter? All of those present different challenges. You know the dream is just to be door off Right, but that's not realistic and in fact it's. It's less realistic than you think because you typically don't want to travel with the door off. You know the distances that you normally have to travel to get to the good places. So, that being said, you've got a limited window space and what I would say is that typically, um, you know, space in the craft is limited, you're not just like can have your huge camera bag. You've got one camera, you know, maybe a backup in the back, two lenses, and I think that what ends up happening is that your relationship with that craft, with the plane and with the pilot is everything that's going to change everything. All the best images I've ever gotten have been when I have flown with a talented pilot who knows what to do and how to put the plane in a position where I can actually get the shot that I want, because it's not like you're just going to be, you know, typically it's frustrating, I guess is what I'm saying. You're not just going to be, you know, casually, sort of going out there and just nailing these amazing aerial photographs.
Chris:Usually it's a much like anything else. You know you need the right time of day, you need, like, the good light. You know you're looking for oftentimes for me it's like dappled clouds, so that you don't have flat light. You have some sun, but not too much sun, and I'm looking for, oftentimes a variety of shots. Sometimes it's straight down. You're shooting directly down at the ground from above, where it almost looks abstract, and in order to shoot that, typically a polarizer is key, because it cuts the reflection from a water source or the ground or whatever, and also just something that kind of helps if you're cutting through the glass of a plane or a helicopter or something like that.
Chris:There's a lot of little things too. I always wear black because you have less reflection in the plane window or helicopter window. You don't wear your white shoes. I've seen so many people have to film outside of a window. Everything they're wearing is contrasting against that glass and it's ruining their shot, right. So I'm just trying to be a realist here. We're not always going to be able to open the door. We're not always going to be able to get our entire camera out the window.
Chris:I would say that the least experienced kind of person is probably going to want to shoot with like a 70 to 200 out of the plane, because that's going to allow you to zoom in on anything you want. Right, it's a less. 70 to 200 out of the plane, because that's going to allow you to zoom in on anything you want right. It's a less intimate perspective. Truly, it's not as as close or as wide angle as I prefer. I guess you could say you're kind of zooming in from far away.
Chris:My favorite images are usually shot with a 16 to 35, but the crux of shooting with that is that you're going to get a strut or you're going to get something in the plane in the shot, and that can be tough right. So you really need a pilot who can put the plane at a bank where you can basically have the total proximity of what you're hoping to shoot in front of you, like the total opening, right, and that only lasts for like a couple of seconds. It's not like you're just able to kind of consistently be shooting everything you want. You kind of have to circle around something and align yourself to be in the right position with it. You get a couple moments and then it's done. So I guess I would say like 70 to 200 is kind of a go-to for beginners and then a 24 to 70 is kind of that mid range Great lens. I mean most people.
Chris:I'd say a 7,200 and a 24 to 70 is going to cover all your bases. For me personally, if I want to get like something really compelling. I'm shooting wider and closer, um, and that is going to be more challenging, right? Uh, wide angle, things are going to move faster past you as well. You know you're flying through some Canyon or by the Nepali coast and everything's moving and it's it's creating more issues, more dynamic situations where you're constantly changing the shutter speed, aperture in order to deal with those constantly, um, kind of fast moving objects and or um.
Chris:I think another situation is that, for me at least, the shutter speed versus kind of aperture priority situation, how you set up your actual camera, it's going to be a lot easier just to kind of keep it in shutter speed priority, because the aperture is fairly irrelevant.
Chris:You're so far away from everything that you're shooting that it's not important. The shutter speed is important because you will get motion blur. So trying to shoot above that 500th of a second if things are closer to you, shooting 600, 800, 1,000, 1,200, something within that range is really helpful. But I can't give you a perfect formula for it, uh, but oftentimes, you know, as you become more advanced, you can shoot manual from a plane. It just takes a lot of constantly. You know dialing in those settings, dialing in the buttons, you know, dialing back the shutter speed, dialing forward your aperture, whatever you do, you're up and down your iso because, because the light is constantly changing, some in one second you're shooting into the sun. In one second you're doing a bank and all of a sudden it's totally shaded. So not really any way to easily articulate.
Court:No, no, that was. That was awesome, Super helpful stuff. And I was thinking as you were talking.
Court:One of the great things about aerial photography like this is that you usually do have a good bit of light, even if it is done. You're above the tree line, you're? You're probably below the clouds Obviously, if there were clouds you wouldn't be shooting but you get a lot of light. So you know, one thing that I always talk about a lot on this podcast is my kind of manual plus auto ISO mode that I just find so nice because I can dial in the aperture, I can dial in the shutter speed, let the camera choose ISO and, as long as the light is pretty good's giving me iso. You know 100, 200 the whole time. So I I feel like that is the mode to be on. And then, per chris, yeah, something 500th of a second faster.
Court:You know, I think a lot of folks are probably looking at a maximum aperture of f4, f 5.6 with a with a lot of lenses, especially kit lenses. So it seems to be like that's pretty darn good if you're going for that maximum depth of field, obviously bumping up to F8 if possible. But what are you looking for as you get that top-down shot, the abstract shot that you're talking about. I think that that is probably one of the more common things that I see on my very opportunistic bush flights across Alaska or Africa or anywhere when we're trying to make lemonade. This is not necessarily a photo flight seeing trip flights across Alaska or Africa or anywhere when we're trying to make lemonade. You know, this is not necessarily a photo flight seeing trip, but we're shooting out the window. We might get a nice shot of something, what, what are you looking for in the landscape? To give you that shot, to really hone in on that one kind of image.
Chris:Well, I mean, that's like asking somebody what their favorite type of fruit is and why, because I'm not going to be able to explain to somebody why certain things you know resonate with me and why you know they might not resonate with others. But the point or the goal is that you're seeing something hopefully unique, and the plane presents unique opportunities, and so the goal should be to document those opportunities and do so in the best way possible. Now, I think that there's a big difference between just spraying and praying and hoping that you get something good, versus being thoughtful and conscious about it. You know, am I going to include a little bit of this coastline? Am I going to include, you know, these birds that are sitting on this tiny little in this estuary, on the sandbar? What am I trying to portray here? Because I think photographing things without any intention is just one of the really challenging things that I see these days in terms of trying to tell a story and having no story to tell. So I guess, when I look for something unique, I'm typically trying to just be open to what I'm seeing and what speaks to me and what resonates with me, like oh wow, the colors are beautiful. This is a really stunning area. I really want to document this river, this place, whatever it is, and I spend the time that it takes to get around it, but I would say that it's almost never been like the first flight around an area that I've like nailed the moment. You know, usually it's going back a different season, a different time, really trying to see it in in the most ideal situation that I can, being that sometimes these rivers maybe that I'm photographing are really full of glacial silt and they're really colorful, or there's a large, you know kind of swath of birds that's flying over them. So there is no recipe for success. It would be inauthentic to say that there's just like a way to analyze what looks good from the air.
Chris:I think that you really need to really spend the time up there. I would say that the more time you spend just like, the more time you spend anywhere, you become desensitized to the mundane, and what I mean by that is that it's not uncommon for people to come to Iceland, for example, and be photographing you know, from Highway 1, driving 60 miles an hour on the side of the road or on the road and be photographing, you know, from highway one, driving 60 miles an hour on the side of the road or on the road right. They're just their cameras out, they're just shooting everything, because everything's beautiful and I love that. That's, that's amazing. But are those going to be the best images? Probably not. It's usually going to be when you pause and you, you, you intentionally try to create an image. So the kind of this pageantry around, maybe shooting, um, where you know you're, you're dialing in your, your settings and your camera and blah, blah, blah and it's, it's. That's wonderful.
Chris:But I think that we need to give time to the landscapes to make something special. And I would say that oftentimes, what makes something unique is is that you've, you've flown around, you've kind of seen it all, and then you're pulled back to one place or one spot in particular. You're really trying to work it, you're trying to find that angle, you're trying to find that perspective and it feels different, it feels like something you haven't seen before, and that's usually a telltale sign to me that it's something special, something unique, something really cool. So I guess that's kind of what I look for, that's kind of what really speaks to me and and what resonates with me, and I just try to find a way to identify that?
Court:I guess you could say that's great advice, and you say that you don't have a perfect recipe, but you do have a really key ingredient here, which is that intentionality. And I think there there is a cost to just taking a ton of photos. You there, there is a cost to just taking a ton of photos. You know a lot of people, I think, especially on the more beginning side, we'll just continually take photos, whether it's out on ground with animals or landscapes, or in the air, like we're talking about here, and just take, take, take, because the more photos you have you can call them down to some usable things.
Court:And while there is some justification there and it's not entirely wrong if you're looking for that really special one like chris you certainly are and like many people perhaps should be more often you know those shots that you're taking that don't have intentionality are actually channeling your distraction elsewhere or channeling more distraction.
Court:Your photography is channeling your attention elsewhere. So, yeah, I I do advocate for that, and I hear a lot of other photo buddies of mine that will say you know what, like the first thing I do when I get to a beautiful place with a photo group is I tell them to put the cameras down and just have a good five, ten minute look, um and yeah, like maybe there's a one in a thousand chance you're gonna miss some rare encounter with a bear uh you know leaping into a river with salmon at that moment. But the reality is you're probably going to get more of those shots and, because you've taken a pause and looked around and analyzed the scene, you're going to get better shots of that same thing, or shots or aerial shots later. So, yeah, I think that the key ingredient well said, well put, insightful is that intentionality. Certainly.
Chris:Yeah, and I don't. I don't know if it's like you know. I do think I will say for sure that there is some element of it that is kind of just you know you're hoping for the best, you know you're out there and I think putting yourself in those situations is what creates beautiful, beautiful images and allows for unique moments to kind of come to life. I guess you could say and I think that's a big part of it is like the more time you spend up there, the more chances you're going to have just to find something really special. And I would honestly say for me, I don't think I'm a great technical photographer or someone who's necessarily wildly creative. I'm just the most stubborn, maybe, or the person who's willing to like, give it the most amount of tries or the most effort. And I think that that is been a big part of my recipe for success is just trying to give the time, spend the time to be out there in the elements and to not be deterred maybe when the weather gets bad or things like that.
Court:I've heard you say that you see the world in wide angle or ultra wide angle.
Court:I've seen this on previous videos and interviews you've had and I find that so interesting and I know that well. I think that one of your favorite lenses is that 16 to 35 class and I was so like you didn't just stop saying it's like my favorite lens. It's like you see the world in that angle and I'll be honest, like I don't think I do, like I actually think there's a different range that I see it in. So it clearly is some sort of subjectivity amongst photographers. I'm so curious. I never would have thought about that, you know, introspectively, on my own self, had I not heard you say it. Can you explain seeing the world in a 16 to 35?
Chris:Yeah, well, I mean, I think it's more around the idea that when, when I start at the beginning of the day, um, I have any any day shooting, right, with one lens on my camera, it's the 16 to 35. That's just the key, that's the lens that I always start with, like, if I'm going to wake up, it's early, I'm going to be shooting potentially sunrise, et cetera, et cetera, like that's the lens that I'm going to shoot. And I think the reason is because you know you have to kind of see things from one perspective, right, you really got to be, you really got to have an intimate connection with the cameras that you're shooting or with the lenses that you're shooting. You know you should be able to visualize.
Chris:You know and I think that the experienced and the talented photographer will visualize the world between certain lenses, like, if I'm going to, you know I'm not going to look at something and be like, oh, this might be good in a wide angle, and throw it on and be like, wow, that was totally the wrong perspective. I actually need like a 600,. You know, like, obviously, you, you, you need to be able to picture or imagine what these lenses will do. So for me, it is that wide angle perspective. I'm always thinking, okay, like right now, what I'm seeing, is this going to work for this lens Maybe?
Court:it won't.
Chris:That's fine, like that's the whole point, right. But I just know that usually most of the photographs that I really like that I've shot have been shot with that lens. Now it's as simple as going back into your archives. You know, maybe you've been shooting for two years, three years, 10 years, I don't know. Look at your most iconic 100 photos or the ones that you like. What were they shot with? If 30% of them, or 40% or 60% or 80%, were shot with one lens, that might be the lens that you would always prioritize bringing.
Chris:To not be cognizant and aware of that is is really to me kind of crazy, because I feel like that's what I'm always trying to do is analyze, like what, what piece of equipment is going to get the job done the most effectively, right, um? So I think that that's kind of just how. What I mean by that is like when I'm having to make lens choices or picking what's in my bag for that day, I always am going to choose that lens that I feel like is the easiest one for me to navigate and work with and use before all others. Am I going to leave behind that 50mm 1.4? Am I going to leave behind the prime millimeter. You know, one four am I going to leave behind the prime? You know this and that I'm just kind of trying to look for something that's going to get me to like the results that I want faster.
Court:I love it, yeah, cause it combines everything. It combines the technique, the vision, and I think you you put it in a very interesting context. For listeners out there trying to figure out what they might use to see the world according to their vision is, yeah, what's that lens that you walk out the door with? Um, totally, maybe on safari, it is a 100 to 400 or 600 prime, um, but you know, nevertheless, the thing that you just always pick up and gravitate to, that that might be your, your vision lens. Can I coin it?
Chris:yeah, yeah, yeah, you're I, that's the way to put it right. I also like really love the fisheye. Like I feel like it's one of those like lenses that just always speaks to me and I always include it in my bag. It's not a common one for most people, it's not something that I think most people gravitate towards, but that's kind of the point. Right, you should form a relationship with your camera and your lenses. You know how far you can push.
Chris:Whatever it is you're shooting the A7R IV or whatever it is no-transcript then you know the situations you might bring it in, right? You're like, oh well, I'm going on this trip. There might be Northern lights, there might be astrophotography moments. Those things that you're hoping to shoot are going to, you know, inversely affect your decision-making process when it comes to which lenses you pack and which lenses you bring. And the hope is that you don't bring everything, because I think that there's an illusion when it comes to choice, like as if the more choices we have, the more creative we'll be. I actually think that that's couldn't be further from the truth. I think that, um, in fact, the less choices we have, it forces us to be more creative.
Court:I could not agree more the paradox of choice is around us in life constantly and I think it's getting stronger and stronger as time continues on this idea that we think the more choices again give us happiness and satisfaction and blah, blah, blah. But yeah, sometimes I find my most creative versatile photography is when I have my my 51.4 on. Honestly, like I'll just I'll, I'll force myself to do it. It's, it's a technique that I really, really love and you know, maybe halfway through a trip, once I've gotten a lot of great photos of whatever I'm shooting, like you know what, I'm gonna force myself to use a 50 millimeter all day and see the world and it's really, really fun. So, yeah, great stuff there. Okay, I'm gonna switch to a little bit of a bigger, deeper question here. So I think of you as a storyteller extraordinaire. In fact, I think that might be a lot of how and why you're into your current work with the various film projects and everything you've got going on.
Chris:AKA too many things at once, the too many things.
Court:Yeah, trying to do it if you want. But getting into storytelling, what do you view as the key ingredients to storytelling from your point of view? Big question open-ended, but I'm leaving it there.
Chris:That's an excellent question, actually, I think if it was. You know, there are many ways to really dive in and try to extrapolate a story from an experience. I think that, at the end of the day, it needs to be something that you are personally invested in, because any good story, telling any good story, whether it's in film or photography or video is going to require an element of sacrifice on your end. It's going to require that I don't know, you know, getting out of the tent when it's freezing cold to to uh shoot a time-lapse or film something, and so I guess what I'm saying is like there will be discomfort and there will be moments of uh that are not easy. That's kind of the point, right. If it was easy, why would we do it, um, or why wouldn't somebody have already done it, so? So, with that, you need to make sure that your purpose is near and dear to you. It's something that you actually care about, something that you are inspired by, because if it's not, I just don't know that you will be able to get through those initial kind of pressure points or pain points. Like there's a million stories of projects that sort of started and then stopped. There's not a lot of stories as many about projects that kind of started and then were. You know, there's not a lot of stories you know as many about projects that kind of started and then and then were successfully completed. Right, because that's that's the hardest part. So I guess, finding that, that thing that really gets you excited and gets you stoked to tell it, and then and then, with that, you know, there is a process that I think everybody undergoes, a different one for each person.
Chris:For me, usually, if I am telling a story about a person and they have kind of told me this relay to this experience to me, or something that we're going to try to film or create or photograph, I oftentimes, depending on the scope or the budget, I'll have a third party, journalist or a writer, a friend of mine, call them and interview them. And the reason is because I can have sort of delusions of grandeur when it comes to telling a story and I'm like, oh, I heard this thing from this person and this is what I think it is and it's going to be so cool and I'm pitching this project and I'm very invested and it's easy to kind of I guess you could say have a slightly skewed perspective when it comes to telling the story and you want to be honest, you want to be straightforward. So I usually will have a third party come in, a friend of mine, interview my subject or my person and just like make sure that we got it right. That it's because from a third party, somebody who's not invested, you know, it's a lot easier and I think that's important. That's a, that's a process that I've tried to undergo three, four, five times and it's actually really helped me. And so I Can I interrupt real quick?
Court:Do you do this before you start the project? Is this when, like you, have the vision and the dream before you know to continue on you, you bring in a third party?
Chris:Yeah, Because you don't really want to go all in guns blazing, and then all of a sudden realize, man, yeah, because you don't really want to go all in guns blazing, and then all of a sudden realize, man, we really got it wrong. Like this is actually not what this person meant by that or whatever. You know, maybe you overheard a story of a person and you know this part of the world and you're like, well, we want to go back and film this thing and this is going to be amazing and maybe it's slightly different. So I think that allowing that person to share the story in their own words, you know, this is obviously, if we're sharing a story about people and it's relaying an experience, this is a powerful way to do it. Now, I think if you're sharing a story about a place or a documentary that's happening in real time, you know there are other kind of solutions and ways you might go about that, but for me, this has been one of the best ways to kind of detach myself from the, from the um, my initial thoughts and feelings, and try to look at it from like a 30,000 foot view, Because I think that um one of the most valuable tools that I've tried to use in everything. I do it literally. It doesn't matter if this is like a marital decision or if this is a business decision. It's what is my intended outcome visualizing that, picturing that, articulating that, expressing that, verbalizing it and then working backwards from that outcome in order to get there.
Chris:And I think one of the issues that you find with people oftentimes telling stories of any kind or just working in general, is that they want directions to a place that doesn't exist because they have no idea where they're going, Right. And then they look to maybe more successful people or they look to somebody who has done it before for directions and then, but the problem is they can't offer that to you because if you don't have a vision for where you want to end up, nobody can get you there. So that's a big part of it, right Taking the time to really digest and process where you're going, where. Where is this thing going to take you? You know, and that's important, right.
Court:Yeah, do you have any tips and tricks for visualizing that? I mean, it's, it's, it's so, it's so obvious, but it's so challenging.
Chris:I mean, I don't really have a tip or a trick, so much as like what have you seen? That you're maybe you know this is going to sound a little bit, you know, harsh, but like what do you? What do you cop? What are you trying to copy? Right, Cause everybody's copying something. It's okay, Like, oh, I saw this short film, I loved it.
Chris:I really want to create something like that Great, that's, that's your North star. You know, um, I saw this, uh, you know photo blog somewhere and I really want to create something like that. I'm going to use that as a reference or a guide or whatever. It is like that's your North star. So there can be a lot of you know um, anchor points that will hopefully get you there, or some guardrails you're going to set up. Obviously, things change, stories change Changes. You need to be open to that. But the hope is you have some idea, some concept of where you're hoping to go, potentially, because that will ultimately help you get there Right, and that's kind of the whole pointism in approaching films and photo projects.
Court:I'm going to challenge you to think on the non-professional side and like what advice would you have to someone going on an individual trip? It might be a couple going on their honeymoon. It might be someone going on a photo adventure somewhere in the world and they want to make their photos more meaningful. They might want to do some storytelling, like conservation storytelling, to make their work a little bit more powerful than just snapping pretty photos of amazing looking things batched way. What are some things that they might think of in prepping for the trip, while on the trip and then after the trip to just I don't want to say like half-baked this storytelling, but without a super professional approach where they're going to make a kind of like a feature film or anything of the sort. What are some?
Chris:yeah, I think that I think you're going to hate me, because the problem is it's the same process, like if they don't know where it's going to end up. It's your end goal will completely direct the way you operate, right? So, if you're like, you know, we really want to, we're going on this safari, we really want to document this animal because it's endangered, and we want to share or showcase this to like. Who is your audience? First of all, there's a list of questions that I would ask a person if they were looking for advice from me. Who's your audience? What's going to be the most effective way to get to that audience? What are the tools that you're at your disposal? And then, how are you going to utilize those tools? Are you going to vlog about it? Are you going to film it? Are you going to photograph it? Where will this end up? Where will it live? Where will it exist 20, 30 days from now, six months from now, and then that will hopefully direct the actions of that person.
Chris:And I do think that there are different ways in which you would go about, because here's the crux is like you're never going to go on a trip and you know film and photograph and vlog and whatever all the other things that you know and journal. One of those things is going to give. Like you can only do so many things. Well, human beings. Sadly, for all of our amazing achievements, we have not figured out how to multitask super well, so something is going to sacrifice, and so I would say that I try to look at the story. Obviously, I have a lot of years of experience. I try to look at each story, given what is the most valuable way to get this message across. If I am advocating for Iceland's glacial river systems and a national park there and I'm spending time creating a photo essay, how will that photo essay best be realized? Will it be me partnering with a local NGO to speak on their behalf, to advocate for this, talking about what I've seen? Is it making a book so that it can get into the hands of people who are maybe decision makers, can be gifted to them, can be shown to them? Is it going to be partnering with somebody in the government to do X, y and Z? So the end goal will absolutely directly affect kind of the where you start, and I think that each one.
Chris:Again, if you are a journalist, like the best thing you can do is be a journalist, you know like, take meticulous notes, shoot photographs to help you remember those experiences. If your goal is to film, then try to truly document it. What style of film are you going to shoot? Who is, who is whose voice? Is this being told through? Who is our main character? Who am I following? Am I taking the time to do interviews? Blah, blah, blah. Is this something I'm just sharing on social media? So what is the tone and tenure of that social media approach? Like, how am I getting my information? Who is it from my allowing people to tell their own story? Am I filtering that story through my own voice? Those are all the things that I would be thinking about, and it does take time.
Chris:Like, I think the worst thing that can happen is to get onto the ground, wherever you're going, and just be like, oh well, I haven't really thought about it, I'm just going to try and do it. All you know, and I think that that's a recipe for disaster a little bit. If, if the goal is to actually tell a story, if the goal is just to experience the place and document it and do whatever you want and use your camera and use your tools, then have fun and, honestly, don't put the stress on yourself at all to do anything. I think, actually, one of the bigger issues I see is people putting too much pressure on themselves. You know they're going to Antarctica or they're going somewhere and they they feel like there's a cause they need to like stand for, and that's excellent. There are many causes, and important ones at that. But to go there with the intention of like making change, as opposed to, first and foremost, just experiencing it, just being there.
Chris:Oftentimes, if you're going somewhere and it's your first time and you're going there to make a difference, make a change, you're probably more so following somebody else's narrative as opposed to your own. You haven't actually experienced this place for yourself. So how do you know that it's special? How do you know that it's important? How do you know that glaciers aren't these gross ugly things that should be melted? The point is to be inspired and the goal is to leave inspired. So you have something to say, because if not, it's just going to be a formula that you're following because you saw somebody else do it and you felt like you should get involved, and there's nothing wrong with that. But I do think that the very best, very most potent, the very most powerful conservationist people who are advocating for wild spaces, other people who have a real relationship with those places and takes time to develop. That's I guess. That's just all I'm thinking. Yeah, I, I'm sorry, I sort of like boondoggled your question there and, like you know, wrapped into my own thought.
Court:No, I'm trying to dig into the the brain of chris burkhardt.
Chris:That's exactly what I wanted?
Court:no, it referred me to. You know, think of a quote that I I say so often, um, which is a bit of a mixture of quotes from Aldo Leopold, and it goes something like you cannot save what you do not love and you cannot love what you do not know. And so, yeah, you got to know things first to then love it, to then save it, and I think you're spot on there.
Chris:You are good with quotes. I will tell you this to your credit Court. When you sat with me on the plane and we were coming back from Iceland, we were flying to New York, you told me something you said the most dangerous view of the world is is the view of somebody who doesn't know the world. And what's what's awesome is I mean, I stole that from your lips and I used it in like three or four presentations, cause I just said like I met this guy on the plane. He shared with me this view and it really struck me and I and I, I think that, um, that is powerful and that is a perspective.
Chris:That is something I've thought about, because it's so easy to demonize people who are out there spending all their spare time traveling and seeing the world, but truly, the ones who get us to be inspired by what's out there are the ones who are spending their time doing so. You know, and I, honestly, the scariest version of the world that I could think of would be one where nobody gets on a plane, nobody sees what's out there, everybody lives in the microcosm of their own small, you know existence and no change is ever made. I mean truly.
Court:Could not agree more, Chris. What gives you the most energy these days? What drives you?
Chris:Besides coffee, no, I think, definitely spending time with my kids. You know, that's probably the thing that, like, motivates me the most, inspires me the most, gets me the most excited, gets me the most psyched. I guess you could say, inspires me the most, gets me the most excited, gets me the most psyched. I guess you could say, and truly, like, it's the, it's the part of the puzzle that nowadays, you know, and it's not just my kids, it's honestly sharing things with others.
Chris:I think that you relate to this and the fact that, like, it's really special when you get a chance to take people to a place that they've never been, they've never seen, you know, you, it's a, it's a true privilege, um, and whether it is my kids or whether it's someone else, I don't, I don't know, um, it doesn't really matter, because the point is that, like, that is the experience I'm seeking.
Chris:I have seen a lot of the world and, and, and I feel lucky to have done so and, um, if I never traveled a day in my life again, I'd be content. You know, I truly would. I mean that sounds silly, but nowadays the joy comes more so from sharing it with people I care about or love, or sharing it on social media to people that I know don't have that privilege, because I grew up like that. I was one of those kids that didn't travel, that didn't have a passport until I started to work, and so I guess I really value what it's brought me, and that's kind of nowadays how the, the, the way in which I evaluate success, I guess you could say yeah, no, I do very much resonate with that.
Court:From all my guiding is is I get to live quite vicariously through my travelers. You know, I've seen many of these things for for 10, 15, 20 years in a row.
Court:It's the same phenomenon. People ask me do you ever get sick of this? I'm like no, because I'm reliving it each and every time through your eyes. I actually am thinking about it differently. As I see your reaction and talk about your impressions and your feelings, I actually think differently. It's like compounding interest. It actually grows, grows and my passion grows for these sort of things.
Chris:I love that man. That's cool, that's a cool way of putting it, and you're, and you're, you are spot on. I do, I do agree and I do resonate with that pretty deeply.
Court:What is the? We're getting back to photography here. What is? What is the Chris Burkhardt photo style? And what I mean by this is photo style, um, and what I mean by this is it changes a lot. Just so you know. Yeah, yeah, no, no same, like honestly every. You know, when I download a new version of photoshop or lightroom and like it, mine might change a little bit, but I always like, as an example, I tend to go for sort of big bold. I call them like big photos where if you were to look at them on a thumbnail on a phone across the room, you know that that's an orangutan's face or that's a sunset of the avenue of baobabs in madagascar maybe you don't know exactly where it is, but you kind of know.
Court:It's like, oh yeah, trees and sunset, and so I like those big, powerful, colorful, popping, contrasty sort of photos. But I see so much stuff, whether it's from colleagues or websites or Instagram, whatever, and there's very distinct styles and I'm so I admire so much people that kind of have a style. You know like, oh yeah, that's, that's Arthur's stuff or that's Rich's stuff. I can definitely tell and I I feel like I know your stuff as well, like I'll. I'll sometimes see things completely disparate from you. It's like a desktop screensaver or something like like that.
Chris:That's one of chris's photos, um, and I'm wondering if you, if you, have a style and can name it um you know, I I would say like, from a functionality standpoint, I really like shooting close and wide and slightly over my subject, like if I'm shooting kayaking or I'm shooting you know somebody climbing or it's some portrait. I really like to like be kind of above looking down, this sort of like my subject is here, but then there's all this other stuff behind them and it's more of like if I was shooting a portrait, for example, it'd be more of an environmental portrait. Right, it wouldn't be so much the face only of the person, it would be more of them in the context of what they love, where they are, what they're going through, whatever. And then, when it comes to landscape, I guess you know, or action, sports or anything, I I usually love the idea of of giving scale to what I'm shooting. If it's aerial photography, I think one of the things that I've been luckily, you know and you know, gratefully known for is is flying with multiple planes, where I'm trying to add scale and context to an otherwise super abstract scene.
Chris:And so I think I'm constantly putting myself in the viewer's perspective, being that I know what it means to look at an image and be like what am I looking at? And so I want to give people clues. I don't want to give it all away, but I want to give people clues of where they that they could identify where we are and and understand maybe the surroundings. And I think that comes from my surf photography days where I was always trying to look for elements of foreground, the background, the headland. Where are we?
Chris:You know what? I don't want to have to explain it, I want to give people clues to figure it out, and so that is kind of what I've always looked for is like how can I bring those elements into the image and into the story? So I would say that maybe I'm not like so in your face. Tight action. I like the pulled back action a bit. I do like the environmental portraiture and sort of showcasing an element of the surroundings and I think that nature or the landscape, whether that's a city or whether that's, you know, actually outdoors is is a key and critical part of the images that I'm shooting and often always kind of has been. So I don't really know how to sum it up. That's a great question.
Court:I don't really like have a way, um, and it instantly made me think of um something when you said sort of that, that environmentalist, not portraiture, but like you're, you've got a subject, you've got a scene, you got a story, but then you're showcasing all around it as well. And this is just a pro tip for listeners out there. Um, so I I got a new lens recently, which is super interesting. I'm a canon guy and they came out with this rf um 24 millimeter macro. I mean, I'm sure that exists in other lineups, but yeah, I got it mainly for videography stuff because I have like a little studio here and it works well with my angles and it's super shallow depth of field, it's like 1.8, but it's a macro 24 mil. And so I took it down to photograph monarch butterflies this past winter. You know where they? They have these huge roosting aggregations in central mexico and it's just exquisite. And I finally figured out how joel sartori and all these guys, franz lanting, get these shots of like monarchs filling the frame but then the whole tree above it and yeah, you can take this shot inch away from anything, tack, sharp focus. But it's a 24 mil and because you're so close to your subject it almost makes it look like an ultra wide Um.
Court:So anyway, pro, tip out, there might be my new X factor lens when I want to just get something really different, really special definitely not putting this on the first thing in the morning, but like just if I want something weird and wacky 24 millimeter macro um, I didn't even get it for the macro, I got it just because I wanted 24, 1.8. Anyway, that leads me to my. My next question here, chris, is what? What is your X factor lens? And I kind of defined that as the lens that you're not going to have on all the time maybe even just 5% of the photo shoot of the trip, maybe even less, but it might stand to get you the photo of the trip and you know it because of that. You know it can get you the photo of the trip possibly.
Chris:Yeah, so you know it's, it's, absolutely, it's a. It's usually the, uh, the Leica 35, uh, summicron, and um, because I'm shooting on Sony, I've got the adapter, so it you know it's, it's makes it not as perfect. I guess you could say Um, because I'm shooting, it's a one, four, um, right, or a one, two, I can't remember something like that and maybe it's a one, two and uh, it's just super shallow depth of field and you know it's easy when you're just shooting someone's face, um. But I think when you're shooting a little further away and you're trying to nail down that actual, you know, shallow depth of field, it's tricky, uh, it's a tricky lens to use and I think that's kind of why I love it.
Chris:Um, I love, I love the fact that a lot of times, you know I'm on an assignment, maybe I'm shooting product or I'm shooting portraits, I'm on a, I'm on a job, right, and maybe it's not the most sexy job and I have to make something look good, and so I think that that lens can really do that.
Chris:It can really make something look good. It can really make something look interesting when it's not so interesting and and maybe it's more of like a, a secret weapon, but I think that's kind of what I love about it is that it just brings out some cool details, some aspects, a lot of fall off, beautiful bokeh, um, when it's done right and it's not. I don't always do it right, so I'll be honest. But I do um because I, because you know, a lot of times you're looking in the camera you're like, oh, this is epic, I am nailing it. And then all of a sudden you're like, no, this is uh, this is not perfect. When you look at the actual, you know um, when you look at the actual, like you know photographs later on or something like that. So, yeah, um tricky right.
Court:But 35, 1.4 and Leica specifically.
Chris:Yeah, exactly, but 35, 1.4 and Leica specifically. Yeah, exactly, it's the Leica specifically. Yeah, and it's, it's. It is a really sick lens. I will say, like it's, it's just a beautiful lens, and I mean, obviously, when you're using it on the Leica, it's, it's even cooler, you know yeah.
Court:It's all about that glass.
Chris:Yeah, you know it is, and I like I'm definitely not a huge fan of like, oh, this specialty lens for this specialty thing, because I do genuinely feel like people can make crazy beautiful images with whatever pieces of equipment they have. You know I've shot a lot of my favorite work on kit lenses. Do think that this lens specifically is has a purpose. You know, and it's fun to shoot purposeful lenses, if you know what I mean. And then purposeful pieces of equipment and and that's kind of a refreshing thing sometimes when you're sort of using a lot of generalist equipment, I guess you can say yeah, yeah, I've been getting more into primes myself.
Court:I mean, obviously, the 24, 70, 70, 200s are just so rad, so good. But but, like I said earlier, just throwing a 50 mil or an 85 mil and just seeing the world, forcing myself to see the world through that lens is is quite compelling. Um, okay, I've got a couple, couple of final questions here, um, and we're sort of zooming out. You may have said the answers to some of these before, but we're, we're putting in maybe a different context. What is, what is one lesson you'd like to teach or tell aspiring nature and wildlife photographers and videographers and cinematographers, filmmakers? It could be either or or both, whatever you want. But one lesson and I'm this one is kind of like more on the technique side.
Chris:Yeah, you know it's not going to be the lesson that anybody wants to hear, but I think that the goal to me, if I was going to give a one piece of advice to aspiring creatives of any kind, let's, let's just like be you know, let's just be realistic about the fact that, like you, could be any kind of creative and um, is that I. I hope people will learn to tell better stories, their own personal stories. I want to hear them open their mouths and share what they experienced out there, because one of the beautiful things about being a photographer is the fact that you had this experience. There's nobody else that had it.
Chris:And to go back to the world at large, you know, and maybe you're on social media and you just simply tell somebody. After you, you know, you bled and you sweat and you cried and you had this amazing moment where you went up a mountain or you flew halfway across the world and you saw this thing and you shot it and there was snow crunching under your feet and the wind hitting the back of your head and just you can remember it all, you can feel it all because it was so visceral. And then to go online and to say like, oh, the mountains are calling and I must go. Here's my beautiful image from my trip. Like that's such a disservice to photography as a whole, to yourself as a whole, because social media, it's a place you make your own quotes, it's a place that you give people a piece of who you are. And I think that that level of vulnerability is what I am searching for from people and that level of vulnerability is what I am aspiring to offer the world. And I want to tell people what I felt like to be there. I want to tell people what it meant to me, and I think that there is a need for more.
Chris:I guess you could, could say honesty in the experiences that we have and tell me what it felt like. Was it overwhelming, was it fun, was it terrible? You know, um, but at the end of the day, you were the photographer. Nobody else can really do that for you, because, because you, you experienced it. So I guess, um, I guess that's kind of what I really think about and what I really hope people will consider when they're telling stories is like you and me we could stand at the same exact spot. We could stand at the same exact spot and shoot the same exact photo, and maybe we're at Glacier Point, yosemite or whatever and it's the same picture, but at the end of the day, maybe what I'm willing to share versus what you're willing to share, or vice versa, is what sets it apart, and I think that that is where real storytelling comes from.
Court:Very cool. Yeah, you're remarking how you liked my worldview quote. I'm going to say the same about you. Social media is where you make your own quotes, and I think you could probably replace social media with any sort of media or platform to share, but I love that. Make your own quotes Very cool, okay. And then, indeed, the final question here. It's going to be a similar one, but I want to think about this from more of like the business perspective, because I know we've got a lot of folks out there that are thinking about going into this line of work more professionally.
Chris:I see that you are also, among the many things that you're doing, a mentor to new filmmakers what is, um, I don't know if I'm, I don't know if I'm a mentor, but I have meant I have, I have mentored. I don't think that I don't know if it's like an actively ongoing thing, but it's something that I've definitely done and it's something that I definitely do care about. But it's, um, yeah, I would I don't know know if, like I'm, in the process of currently.
Chris:Yeah, like I mean, when you find those pupils that you really want to help, it has to be somebody special, because you need somebody who can learn and you can listen and whatnot.
Court:But yeah, sorry, didn't mean to distract, no, no, no, and that's an important thing because I was really kind of getting more at like some of your classes that you do online but you're right, mentor is much more of like a personal hands-on one-on-one, but you do advise and I would say even mentor, like a lot of people that are interested in hearing more from you on a nitty gritty basis and this, of course, is more of a briefer overview in this episode, but hopefully still, people learn a lot of stuff. But no, the question here is, along the lines of the teaching, what is a top one or two bits of information for anyone starting off wanting to make a big mark in photography or filmmaking in this world? And this one I'm thinking more from like the business perspective.
Chris:Hmm, like what would be a good business practice that somebody might, yeah, like I mean, you can even, I can even ask you to like you know what.
Court:What is one piece of advice that current Chris Burkhardt would tell young Chris Burkhardt about getting into the business?
Chris:Oh, great question. Um, well, I would say that you know, um, first and foremost, the business changes right, and I think it's important to recognize that. Like you know, the business changes right, and I think it's important to recognize that, like you know, the business, whatever the business is, it grows. Don't get so committed to one form of say storytelling or one form of say of anything, because, because it evolves, it changes, it grows, we grow, we change as people, and I just think that there is something really valuable in trying to make sure or ensuring that you, you know you, you keep your options open, because, uh, even for me, um, it's been really important to realize that, like camera, photography is just one beautiful tool, but one tool, right, it's just one way of seeing the world, right, and I think that I have learned and realized that nowadays, learning to adjust with the times, you know, learning to be an author and a filmmaker and a speaker and a creative consultant at times, and just whatever, like those are all different tools that I now have in my tool belt that have made me really valuable to the people that I work with, and there was a time when I did not think that that would matter, or I did not think that anybody would care about those things, right, and there was a time when, when, um, I thought, like photography, this is it. This is the one singular goal, vision, career, whatever, you know, and and I guess what I'm getting at here is like, need to be open and adapt, and you need to adapt with the times and change with the times. And I think that some people who maybe didn't do that really suffered during COVID and really suffered when projects and shoots and things like that stopped.
Chris:Say that, um, that, when it comes to business, being flexible, understanding and evaluating what do you have to offer the people, the clients, the, the whoever might be hiring you? That's all important to consider, um, and and maybe most important is just knowing your strengths and weaknesses, evaluating them, thinking about them from time to time and, and I guess, um, you know, when times are good, it's easy to be like well, this is it, I'm going to throw all my eggs into this basket, I'm all in on on whatever, and that can quickly bite you in the butt. You know, um, for me, it's been critical to take times. Take time when things are going well to reflect and hone other skills.
Chris:I am a constant learner and I am a constant refiner of my skill sets. And just because I've found success in a couple slight areas, it doesn't mean that I don't want to expand what I have to offer or my learnings, because I think that that's what makes us really valuable is being constantly inquisitive and dedicating time. Just like in the beginning of my career, when I would dedicate myself to shooting certain portfolios because I knew that nobody for being hired was, was trying to spend the time and the money and the effort and the energy that I had to go out and prove that I could do it, so that if the opportunity came along, I could have something to show for it.
Court:Well, folks, you heard it from the man himself never stop learning, invest in yourself. Two bits of information that I, in addition to many other things I think people will take away from this episode and continue their own learning. So, chris, thank you so much for taking the time and joining me today. It is most appreciated.
Chris:Thank you, man Appreciate it big time.
Court:Well, there you have it, folks. What a fun conversation with Chris and thank you so much for listening today. This is an absolute passion project of mine and I hope it shows, and I'm so glad I'm able to teach so many about what I personally find the most valuable and helpful in the world of nature photography, and that certainly goes with having expert guests like Chris on. I want to say a big thank you to LensRentalscom who helped sponsor this podcast, and I have them as sponsors for multiple reasons, but first and foremost because I love advocating for the rental of lenses. I think it's an affordable, practical way to test out really high-end gear, or maybe even not a high-end type of gear or high-end lens, but just a way to understand the broader spectrum of what's available out there in the gear and technology space. So, lensrentalscom, big thank you out there. And if you choose to rent from LensRentalscom and you use the promo code WILDPHOTOGRAPHER15, all one word WILDPHOTOGRAPHER, and the numeral is 15 for 15, you get 15% off. So that's pretty sweet. So thank you again.
Court:This is a big part of my. Why you know this podcast. It's to preserve the beauty of our world and to showcase it. If you would like to get in touch with me on those topics or really any topic at all. You can do so at wildphotographerpodcast all one word. Wildphotographerpodcast at gmailcom. You can also check out other tutorials related to this content, as well as a lot of more things about science, nature and adventure, at my YouTube channel at Court Whalen. All one word, and it's been most fun today and I'm really looking forward to the next one. Hope you are too. Thanks.