Becoming a Developer as a Mother With Another Newborn on The Way

Ever wonder how you can navigate the journey to becoming a developer, especially while juggling parenthood? Meet Jessa, a moderator in our community who is a stay-at-home mom with aspirations of entering the coding world. Amid diaper changes and feeds, Jessa talks about optimizing her precious time to learn coding efficiently, solidify foundational concepts, and the importance of projects that strengthen her learning. We also touch on the potential pitfall of recycling through courses to re-assess knowledge.

This conversation takes an interesting path as we discuss how constraints fuel discipline, the role of mentors, and open communication with tutors. The reality of maneuvering motherhood while learning to code is no walk in the park, but Jessa's journey offers insights on keeping the momentum with the right motivation and discipline. We reflect on the positive impact her children have on her journey and how balancing her role as a mom and future developer is possible with the right mindset.

Lastly, we explore coding bootcamps - are they worth it? We evaluate the cost, start dates, and time commitment required. In light of Jessa's upcoming second baby, we discuss her potential to keep coding and the possibility of enriching her portfolio through a bootcamp project. What keeps you motivated when learning something new? We explore this question, underscoring the importance of having a deeper drive beyond just motivation. So, whether you're a stay-at-home parent or anyone seeking to balance personal responsibilities while learning to code, this conversation offers valuable insights.

Jessica Goodin (guest):
Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessicagoodin

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Transcript

Don Hansen: 0:13

Alright, we're back for another episode where we bring on aspiring developers and help them out. This one I'm going to give a little bit of a special intro. Anyone that's watching in our community you'll know her as Jessa. She's actually a mod in this community. She's done an amazing job. I had definitely alleviating a lot of stuff so I can kind of just focus on what I need to. But yeah, so here she is in the flesh. I appreciate you doing this. You kind of shared a little bit of context of why you want to do this and how you're a mom trying to become a developer and some of the complications with that. So I'm actually glad we got to do this. But anyways, let's go ahead and jump into it. What can I help you with?

Jessica Goodin: 0:51

Well. So, like you said, stay at home, mom, I kind of like to equate to it as a full-time job also. So I guess if anybody else is doing full-time and has to do this on the side, that might be similar. But I have working on coding at night, so after the little one goes to sleep, so I have about two hours ish maybe four times a week. Recently I've actually got a shared workspace to work in during the day so that I'm not as tired at night and you can focus a little better without being at home, which is really nice.

Jessica Goodin: 1:27

So my first question for you actually is my priority obviously with learning to code is efficiency and being thorough. So I really want to make sure I'm doing a good job, so can everything in. But I have another kid on the way and so that kind of limits my time a little bit. I don't want to rush it or anything, but I'm trying to find the best way to be the most efficient with my time while also learning efficiently. So my first question is I actually started about a year ago. I learned HTML, css, vanilla, javascript, a little bit of version control with Git, and then the baby came and I did not do anything for close to eight months, so a lot of it kind of went out the window. Would I be starting over from the very beginning right now in order to and maybe kind of recapping all of that stuff that I had learned prior? Or is it okay to kind of skip to where I left off and maybe research as I have forgotten things, or what do you suggest as far as that goes?

Don Hansen: 2:30

How long so, before you had your first baby, how long were you studying?

Jessica Goodin: 2:37

About six months.

Don Hansen: 2:38

How many projects did you build?

Jessica Goodin: 2:41

How many did I finish or did I start? So I got probably about four projects started. I think one of them is finished, but it's minimum, so it's not as big as I wanted it to be, but one probably completed and I started about three or four, I think.

Don Hansen: 2:56

What is that completed? One.

Jessica Goodin: 2:59

That would be a which one is completed, one I haven't touched it in a long time A scorekeeper. So it's just a really basic interactive like score tracker basically.

Don Hansen: 3:13

Okay, on average, how many hours were you investing into it per week for those six months?

Jessica Goodin: 3:21

Well, I started a bit off. More than I could chew I tried to do about eight hours a day for five days a week and got really burnt out. So I eventually slowed. Maybe after three months I slowed it down to maybe about four productive hours a day for four days a week.

Don Hansen: 3:36

Okay, so do you have to start from scratch? No, if you dive back into it, it's going to look a little bit different. It's going to be more project heavy, and I think what you're going to need to identify and this is your focus you're going to need to. We talked about building projects. You know just you and I. Earlier you participated in the hackathon, which I thought was a great thing, and I think you also discovered some holes in your knowledge, and if you want to try to be efficient with your time, I would.

Don Hansen: 4:17

So there's kind of like two phases of learning. I don't know. Maybe there's many phases, but like two main phases in the beginning One where, like you, really you can't do a whole lot of project work. It's very little code snippets to reinforce what you're learning and you're really trying to get those foundations down, and then you don't really have them down until you've moved into the second phase, where you are doing like really tiny small projects, features that are relevant, that make sense, where you are still reinforcing those concepts that you were just learning, and so you're kind of in that second phase and skipping the first phase, which is going to be very heavy coursework. Second phase, which is much less coursework. And then you're kind of like moving on from there where you need to build up the skill of identifying what your holes are. And this is the tough thing because you've let it go for eight months. And now a lot of these foundational concepts, you don't really have them fresh in your memory. They're there, right, but you need to be able to dig a little bit deeper to then reinforce them, solidify them again.

Don Hansen: 5:26

And it's not like just really terrible with gardening, but like the I think you would call them like annual flowers, where they'll bloom, die and bloom again. Okay, that's kind of where your knowledge is right. It's kind of dead. It's been winter and now spring has come along, and now that you have an opportunity to let them bloom with sunlight and water, and you, that's what you're going to do with your knowledge. But how you do that is through continue with the project work, because I think that's still going to be the most efficient way to reinforce everything and to learn. And then when you realize, oh, I don't know loops as well as I thought I did. Now I'm going to go ahead and look up an article. Now I'm going to look up a YouTube video, right, so be very careful about this trap of like going back and going through all of your courses again. That's a non-deficient way to learn and I would find that most people that even have the time to do that end up just creating cycles of that, because then they just repeat the same thing. They don't really reinforce the concepts, they get frustrated with themselves again, they feel like they wasted their time and they try to do it again. Maybe I didn't go through the course more thoroughly enough. So that's what you're focused on.

Don Hansen: 6:35

You're on the second phase, where you need to start identifying your holes, and if you are struggling to do that, you just ask chat to BT, like this is the problem I'm trying to face. I don't understand, like, what I'm missing, because sometimes you don't really know what you don't know and you're just stuck. But you try to build up that prompt as much as possible to chat to BT. And what am I missing? What fundamentals am I missing? And then you have very targeted education towards those fundamentals and I would argue you're going to get better feedback, you're going to feel better about your progress, because I find that people generally just a lot of people just give up that get stuck in tutorial hell. So if you don't get trapped in that, there's a lot of hope for you actually getting to the finish line. So I'm really emphasizing this, but really focus on that second phase.

Jessica Goodin: 7:26

Okay, and that's something I was about to start getting into. I started the tutorials again from the beginning and immediately got a little burnt out on the idea that I already know all this. I already know all this and I'm like I just don't want to do it right now and I'd put it away. So I can totally see how you could get stuck in this loop.

Don Hansen: 7:45

And that's what happens because people think that they're, they feel overwhelmed because the knowledge is a little bit challenging, and then they just get burned out when they go back into the education and then they think maybe Cody is in for me, maybe software engineering isn't for me, right, come up with all these self-defeating thoughts. We're in reality, they're just spending time on stuff that's not relevant. Like no one wants to waste their time. You have a kid, you have a second kid coming. Like why would you want to go back through months and months of tutorials just to get back right to where you are now?

Jessica Goodin: 8:19

Exactly, and so to find those holes that I have, that I might not know, I have building projects. You think focusing on projects and then, as they come up, going back and refreshing my memory and learning about them and then applying them to the projects, is that kind of yeah, and so the trick is going to be to like, figure out where you can start.

Don Hansen: 8:39

So you just participated in the hackathon. You probably identified some holes in your knowledge and I would start there. But yeah, it's thinking about like, what do I want to build? And yeah, like I said, you're not going to know what you don't know, so it's very hard to map those foundational concepts that you're missing with the holes that you have. So lean on AI to be able to help you with that, or mentors, or just like talking with other developers. But you're also at a point where you might be able to do like some clone projects. You might be able to do some practice problems.

Don Hansen: 9:15

I've heard some people recommend just different code or mentorship sites that focus on creating projects for you to practice your skills. So if you find that like coming up with your own project is too daunting at this point, focus on a clone project where the problem is solved already and just try to build out those features. You could do that with HTML and CSS, where you convert the Photoshop design to the actual front end, the responsive front end, and you could do that with functionality, with more logic, heavy stuff with if you're trying to create a clone, like a YouTube clone, spotify clone or like a clone of a smaller feature of an app. But yeah, start with clones and just like little hackathon type projects that like give you what you need to build and you have to provide. You have to know the technical details on how to build it and that might be less overwhelming.

Jessica Goodin: 10:06

Okay, that is awesome, I will do that. And then the next thing I was really wanting to know I have again that time being a really important issue for me. Not trying to rush it, I get you can't do it in three months or whatever, but I have a me probably amongst a bunch of other people. I have a. Really I lack discipline, if that makes sense, having to like kind of come up with my own curriculum. I use chat, GPT actually, since I tried to do that on my own and that has been really helpful, but have getting just like stick to the timeframe, not paying for anything. I don't have a teacher taking roll call, I don't have any. I do have some people that are kind of keeping me accountable, but we're all in different levels so it's it's hard to really stick with. There's no assignments, so the discipline side of things can make teaching yourself really hard. I've learned from experience At what point, if there is a point, would considering spending money on a bootcamp be advantageous for somebody who's trying to get it done quicker?

Jessica Goodin: 11:10

I know with the bootcamp it's a fire hose of information. You can lose a lot of stuff that way it's. It's not. You know, you can do it self taught. Either way works. But is there a point that maybe a bootcamp might be more advantageous If I can spend the money? Would that be better? Or is it better to just try and work the discipline thing out, Because I know that's a habit that takes a lot of effort and time to build? So working on my discipline as well as learning a little overwhelming and with the timeframe, part of me wants to say I'll just take my money, I want to do the bootcamp, I just want to get done. What do you think about that?

Don Hansen: 11:52

It sounds like, from the way you're phrasing it, that you really don't believe that you'll be able to build up to self discipline, to get yourself to the finish line, given what's coming up.

Jessica Goodin: 12:01

A couple of times I've told myself I can do this like I don't want to spend 15 grand or whatever else it is, you know, for the for just learning how to be more disciplined. I can totally build a habit like that, it's totally fine. But how many times have I tried over and over again to do it and then fall on my face and so I don't doubt myself? I know I could. I just have no idea what a realistic timeline of finally figuring it out looks like.

Don Hansen: 12:30

This is so. This is a short conversation and this is where you truly have to rely on your observation of yourself and just try to analyze. Has yourself, discipline been built up since those eight months and then you took a little bit of a break. Has it worsened and it like? You really have to self analyze with that and it's not going to be 100% accurate, but you know, from what I'm hearing, it sounds like you don't have a lot of confidence to make that happen. You have a baby coming along. That's essentially what a coding bootcamp is for. So I would argue that everyone should try the self top hat. Most people give up, most people fail at it, but everyone should try it initially. You've tried it for eight months. You had a baby. Let me ask you this During those eight months, what happens if you didn't have that child? Do you think you would have continued to make tons of forward momentum?

Jessica Goodin: 13:27

No, the child was the fire under the booty trying to get me to go faster and do it. So now that I have the second one actually, when you ask that, I can answer that my discipline has improved since I started because since having her, I have to be more efficient with my time. I don't have a choice, and having two kids under two years old is going to be insane, I think. So now I feel like I have more motivation to do it than sorry, motivation is the wrong word I have more drive to do it than than before.

Don Hansen: 14:00

You're fine, so I can cut this part of the video out if you'd like, but you had shared with. So can I kind of just dive into our conversation with the hackathon.

Jessica Goodin: 14:15

Yeah.

Don Hansen: 14:16

Okay. So with the hackathon, you jumped into it and I'm glad you took that chance and you kind of overwhelmed yourself comparing with other people and their progress and your progress isn't good enough, and so we had that conversation. It's like you really got to refocus on comparing with yourself in previous months and that's a very hard thing to build up. It's easy to say, very hard to do. It's a habit you have to build and so, even just like with this hackathon, it seems like this was three days a week you just provide an update. It didn't have to be a major update and I don't think you were able to keep up with that right.

Jessica Goodin: 14:59

Sure, I worked on it enough. But again, like you said, I kind of got in my own head in comparing and everyone else's updates and what I worked on today wasn't anything notable. I feel like I can't use it as an update, when I probably could have, because I did touch the project for a little bit. So I got in my own head 100% on that one.

Don Hansen: 15:19

Okay, and then did that happen again. So we then went into the second week and the updates slacked. Is that what happened?

Jessica Goodin: 15:29

Yeah, that's kind of how it went. Every time I went back in to do something, I would kind of feel the overwhelm, and I would go in and learn a bunch of stuff. I didn't want to count coursework, though, as an update, but there were some things I was trying to work on that just required so much learning and I couldn't really apply without just copy-pacing, and I didn't want to do that. But I learned a lot.

Don Hansen: 15:53

Okay.

Jessica Goodin: 15:54

I'm still learning.

Don Hansen: 15:55

That's good, and so it mainly felt like the timeframe you realized it was a little bit too strict for you because you had a lot more to learn than you expected.

Jessica Goodin: 16:07

Yes, yes, I had bit off more than I could chew to begin with, and even after the revision I realized that I just need to get back into learning without the pressure of a time constraint, which is interesting because a bootcamp would apply that time restraint pressure.

Don Hansen: 16:27

So, who knows? Yeah, and I think that time constraint can be delivered in a different context. I think so. It gave you a little bit of a fire under your butt to refocus initially, but then you followed the same habit and you kind of gave up again. I feel like you're someone that would probably really benefit from closer mentorship from people, or a person really staying on top of you, really showing you your wins too, because I think this is a big confidence thing which is very common, very common, yeah, but this is all something that a quality coding bootcamp is meant to deliver.

Don Hansen: 17:09

I don't think the time constraint. I'm wondering if the time constraint is actually going to be a blocker for you or not. When you have that mentorship, when you have that cohort to work things through. I'm leaning on it not being a blocker. You have to really know yourself to be able to answer this question for you.

Don Hansen: 17:32

But if that time constraint isn't so much of a blocker, if you are 100% committed from the beginning to the coding bootcamp and understand you might fall behind. You got to talk with instructors. You got to keep that line of communication open, because if you don't, those are the people that fall behind. But if you keep that line of communication open, you raise your hand when you have a question, right All of those things that many people avoid and they don't want to speak up and say because they feel stupid or they're going to ask stupid questions, like if you are that person that takes that initiative, I think you're going to really excel with a coding bootcamp, given your timeframe, because that's really what a coding bootcamp is designed to do it's accelerate that learning. So this comes with a caveat what do you do?

Jessica Goodin: 18:19

February. End of February.

Don Hansen: 18:21

Okay, so about six months or so, and so if you went into a coding bootcamp, you probably won't get in right away. You're talking about like a $15,000 coding bootcamp. You're probably going to have a three to four month cohort. Is that something that you can fit in? I guess it depends on the start date.

Jessica Goodin: 18:41

Or if it's full or part time?

Don Hansen: 18:44

Yeah, because if it's part time, I mean you know better than I do with a child, and so, if you can get a start date, here's two trajectories. If you get a start date, that's very soon and you, let's say, you start next week and you have what? February? I mean you have plenty of time. You have a. Well, okay, so you have six and a half months right now, right, mm-hmm? Okay, so you could fit a four month coding bootcamp in, depending on the start date.

Don Hansen: 19:22

I imagine things are going to get a little bit more difficult as you get closer to that due date and you have to recognize and just keep that line of communication open and just discuss it with admissions, right, mm-hmm?

Don Hansen: 19:34

But you could fit that in. But what's going to happen when you have that child is, I want to make sure, like, if you go to this coding bootcamp, I don't think you need to code every day after you deliver. I think you can give yourself a little bit of time. But if you are probably going to need like three months after coding bootcamp that's a lot of money to cram a lot of information in to then if you're going to need three months, like you're not going to forget it all. But it's going to be very deep into that mind and it's going to take a while to pull out again, so much so that maybe that $15,000 isn't worth it right now. So, like, let's say, you do deliver, do you feel like you're going to be able to just like, every once in a while, contribute like to a little project, like, if it's like six hours a week at least? Do you think you could do that after, like, right after you deliver?

Jessica Goodin: 20:32

I think so. Yeah, I've never had two kids at one time before, but when I had a newborn last time, there was quite a bit of downtime, actually, surprisingly, so I feel like I could. I feel like I could. That's a really good point, though, because usually people take a three-month maternity leave for awful work, because, you know, staying home with a kid and they don't want to work or anything. So having to potentially lose some of all the fire hose information that I did receive, that's something to think about for sure.

Don Hansen: 21:06

It is and if you can keep up with it little by little, not cramming afterwards right, just little by little, you can help retain that information. And I think you're going to, you're going to have to like really set a date and goals of like this is where I'm going to start trying to pick up the amount of hours, because that six hour minimum is a bare minimum that I think will keep that information fresh. But you want to do something with that information because otherwise now you just spent $15,000. And now what happens if you start getting burned out and you're like you know, six months, eight months down the road, you're like I'm not getting that motivation, I'm not getting that fire under my butt, right. So that is something to truly consider. But I think the boot camp option is viable If you truly think that you can manage a little bit of hours not the week after, but a little bit of hours and then slowly progress and pick those hours up.

Don Hansen: 22:04

I think the knowledge you have and the ability to build more thorough and complex projects will help with that motivation, because you might feel a little bit lost or just feel like you're way behind right now. I think a boot camp will build that confidence up more. But these are all theories. This is all stuff that you have to think about and you have to just know yourself and see like does this apply to me?

Jessica Goodin: 22:29

Okay and that's a lot of good insight too, to help me kind of weigh the pros and cons of everything, and at that point I'll probably have some projects already kind of built from the boot camp coming out of the boot camp, or at least some kind of a portfolio started. So even if that six hours a week is just building on some of those to add to my portfolio for like a resume maybe, that is, I think, is, totally doable. Do have to think about it a little more though, just to make sure it's not going to be a waste or anything.

Don Hansen: 22:59

Yeah, I would argue, most coding boot camp projects you're going to scrap Like. I mean, like if you have a capstone project where it's unique, it's not a templated project from the coding boot camp. You thought of it and the staff approved of it. Maybe it's a group project, maybe it's a solo project, but it's yours and you continue building on that project to make it a real user centered project where it actually solves a problem that serves a purpose. That can be a project that you build on. But if you go to a coding boot camp where you end up with templated projects, I'd argue might as well just start a new project from there.

Jessica Goodin: 23:37

Right, that's a good point. Yeah, all the point. All of those projects are just so that you can build and learn, not necessarily showcase, because you're showcasing something that somebody else came up with if you try to do that right.

Don Hansen: 23:50

It depends. Yes, many of those templated projects are really good at reinforcing concepts, but there are coding boot camps that have kind of figured this out that if you focus on a real SaaS product or something that could turn into a SaaS product, if you focus on building a real product, a real solution, and you show that you're a problem solver and you are able to explain your implementation and your reasoning behind building this project and the features that have developed from it and why you changed something, why you implemented something a certain way, because you had an issue with how slow it was or you had an issue with it was kind of hard to manage because I was pulling in too many libraries Like the more you can really build on providing a solution. With that extra context of just solving a problem, usually you're going to create a more interesting conversation in the interview. So, a lot of coding well, I wouldn't say a lot of coding boot camps.

Don Hansen: 24:56

You might want to look for a coding boot camp that really focuses on having you build a product, where you build something that actually looks and feels professional. If you can do that, that's an awesome project that you should double down on If you end up in a coding boot camp where you don't really get to build past templated project or it's kind of just a throwaway project, then, yeah, you're going to probably have to start a new one. But I do want to emphasize it depends on the coding boot camp. But you can end up building a capstone that really looks professional and really looks like a product and that changes everything.

Jessica Goodin: 25:33

Okay, and that would be finding a boot camp that has that. You would just go through their website, look at reviews and pretty much focus on what the capstone type thing would look like.

Don Hansen: 25:46

If you want to find that, yes, that is one thing to weigh in for sure, and you could probably look at YouTube channels. You could look at capstone projects, because a lot of coding boot camps will post on their YouTube channel the capstone projects. So a lot of them look the same or look very similar or they look unprofessional. Judge them based on that. If that's your criteria, keep in mind. You can use the coding boot camp to reinforce your skills and then work on your own project as well. So that is another option, because sometimes some of the coding boot camps that focuses on a real professional product, they cost a bit more. So you got to weigh everything and try to balance it out.

Jessica Goodin: 26:26

Okay, really good information, thank you.

Don Hansen: 26:29

Glad it helped. That's awesome. I know we can go over a few minutes if you need to. Did you have any other questions?

Jessica Goodin: 26:39

The last question I did have kind of could be lengthy, but maybe not. I guess I'll just ask it. I am starting to network a little bit with people in person over at that shared workspace and I'm wondering I haven't networked as somebody who's learning how to be a developer before. So I don't know if I say, hey, I'm teaching myself how to be a developer and I want to work somewhere and make it super obvious, so if I just go in, introduce myself and then in conversation maybe it comes up or they see what I'm doing and then just be a little more nonchalant about it, I don't want to scare anybody off or make them think I'm thirsty for a job or anything. But I also don't want to make people think I'm just hanging out and don't want the references or anything. So I don't want to be too much, I don't want to be not enough. So I'm not really sure how to navigate that If you have some insight.

Don Hansen: 27:33

Yeah, I think that's a good question. A lot of people struggle with being so upfront about their ask initially and they do it in a very salesman type approach where it sounds selfish. I think it's very easy to make that mistake and so if you're someone that you think you might make that mistake you haven't had enough practice with it I would start casual and I would have an empathetic conversation, genuinely ask some questions like hey, what are you doing, Like, and actually get to know their needs. If you get to know their needs, they're going to care about your needs and I would approach the conversation from that standpoint until you get really good about it, and then you could start being a little bit more upfront about it. Right, but you can connect on LinkedIn, Be like hey, let's stay connected on LinkedIn, just in case you know, and then you could post content.

Don Hansen: 28:28

I say all the time, like on LinkedIn, create a community post like what are you working on? And they'll see that, and if they have anything to offer, they have this experience of you just like actually giving a shit about what they have to say, right, and like. Everyone feels good when they feel heard, and so with LinkedIn, that's your chance to kind of this one thing I think. I think I learned from Gary V but that's your chance to. What did he call it? Like a jab or something like that, but that's kind of your.

Jessica Goodin: 29:00

Oh yeah, his jab yeah.

Don Hansen: 29:02

You kind of passively bring it up. I think that's a natural way most people should start and I think that feel like that's a natural way to be able to connect with people and to be able to listen to them and have empathetic conversations. And I feel like, kind of just those passive cells work very well over time, especially when your main focus is on building a empathetic connection with that other person, because that's that needs to happen. Like salesman could do that actually very quickly, but if you really haven't had tons of practice to be able to do that, just be natural and just like, let that build over time. Let your intentions be known in terms of like wanting to get to know them and allow that your passive content creation you just talking about like what you're excited about allowed that to kind of blend in slowly.

Jessica Goodin: 29:53

Okay, that makes sense. I actually did meet up with somebody recently. I found her by looking up web design in my town and she popped up as her own agency owner and everything. So I asked her out to coffee. Through LinkedIn and the whole time I'm thinking of all these things I can ask her for advice and all the things I can tell her about myself and where I'm at. But when we got there she was such a fascinating person and her story of getting to where she was was so cool that we just talked about her the whole time and I absolutely thought that was so cool. But afterwards she offered to meet up again and maybe help me out with my stuff. So I was like, oh, I didn't even talk about me at all, but that kind of just happened, so I could totally see how that would work out.

Don Hansen: 30:35

I mean, that's a fantastic story. And you can kind of like, if you get interested and you're just like, hey, you know, that's really interesting that you said that, I kind of just want to pick your brain you might have asked you a question, right, you can kind of introduce it slowly, you don't have to wait for the conversation to be over and hope that she'll like reach out and say, hey, we should have another meeting, which it's great, it worked out for you. But you can kind of like but it's just a balance of conversation that I think the more you do it, the more you'll feel it out and no one's perfect with it. But I think if you always start with being interested in them and genuinely just you're just curious what they do, what they're interested in, that will generally lead to a much stronger connection where they actually want to provide value to you as well. So it's a balance. But that's awesome to hear that experience.

Jessica Goodin: 31:27

That sounds good. I will work on that balance.

Don Hansen: 31:30

Okay, perfect, okay. So I have one question for you. Do you have a few more minutes? Yeah, okay. So with all this information, what are you going to do with it?

Jessica Goodin: 31:45

I'm probably going to have to rewatch this so that I can re like gather all the information to make sure I'm going to apply it properly. But I'm definitely going to do a lot of research on these boot camps. But I'm also going to really dive deep into myself as far as how I can approach the habit building of discipline, because the money's an issue. Having to figure out a class schedule while having the kid, even for four months, is going to be a little tough. So I think I'm going to revisit the discipline side of things one more time and see if there's something I can really I don't want to say motivate myself, because I know that's fleeting, but something that I can do to really dedicate myself to learning this discipline. And if I can get that down then I'm cool. But I'm also going to look at a couple of boot camps on the side and see if any of them kind of fit what I'm trying to go for.

Don Hansen: 32:37

Okay, all right, sounds good. So far as the motivation thing, it is fleeting and you keep mentioning it because you probably saw my video. I want to emphasize you can't just do this without any motivation. It's okay to get those little hits of motivation, but I think you identified something that truly is going to be a bigger fire into your butt, like you, preparing for having a new kid was a big fire under your butt. That give you drive and that's the word that you ultimately want to aim for.

Don Hansen: 33:06

So I would seriously start considering what is driving you towards actually getting to this finish line, because if you just kind of want it, that's not drive. And so if you're going to think about anything, maybe it's, you know, like you have a second kid on the way. Maybe that is your drive again. Maybe you want to. You kind of share this idea of like you really want to help and engage with other mothers out there that are going to the same thing, trying to build themselves up right, what happens when you're that story for those mothers that are in your spot now. Wouldn't it be really cool to be able to share something like that and give, inspire other mothers?

Jessica Goodin: 33:51

Oh, 100%. Yes, that would be awesome.

Don Hansen: 33:55

Okay, well, anyways, think about that. But yeah, jessica or Jessa, thank you so much for coming up.

Jessica Goodin: 34:03

Thank you so much for having me. Thank you.