Overwhelm is Optional
For high earners in high stress work environments who want focus and satisfaction at work and the ability to switch off, be present and laugh easily at home.
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Overwhelm is Optional
Embrace Authenticity and Set Boundaries: Insights with Executive Coach Alyssa Gioscia
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Have you ever felt the pressure of trying to be someone you’re not just to fit in? Join us in this enlightening episode of the Overwhelm is Optional podcast, where I sit down with executive coach Alyssa Gioscia to uncover the true essence of embracing authenticity and setting boundaries.
Alyssa Gioscia (Josha). Executive Coach focused on leadership, mindset and performance. With a little kick. ;)
https://www.linkedin.com/in/alyssagioscia/
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Embracing Authenticity With Courage
Speaker 1Welcome to the Gentle Rebellion where overwhelm is optional . Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Overwhelm is Optional podcast , and this week I'm delighted to have with me a very , very special guest . Alyssa Joshua is an executive coach focused on leadership , mindset and performance with a little kick . Hi , alyssa , how are you today ? Hi , heidi , I'm great . Thank you , how are you ? I'm really well , apart from , obviously , I've told you I'm really cold because the temperature's dropped here in England and I've got all my winter snugglies back on . But apart from that , let's just ignore my moans about the weather , because I'm so excited to get straight stuck in and , as I said , this is my new way of interviewing , so I'm just playing with the idea that we can just shoot the breeze , coach to coach , and see what comes up , because I know you have so much to share and we're so in alignment and I'm really excited to see what magic we bring . So what's on your mind today that you fancy talking about ?
Speaker 2I love this question , Heidi .
Speaker 2So you know , for me personally , and what I'm seeing with a lot of my clients , is this ability to show up with an authentic voice .
Speaker 2That's really been on my mind because I have people telling me their family is telling them you sound different at home than you do at work , and I have clients telling me that they are uncomfortable speaking up and speaking their mind and you know , not in a negative way , just in truth of who they are . So this ability to truly be authentic , as you would say , gently rebellious , I think , is really on a lot of people's mind , but so much on my mind today and right now because there are so many ways that we hold ourselves back . I know in my experience too , it's been things that people have told me it's too much , too aggressive , too assertive , too loud , all these different things , and over time they start telling you who you are and so you're shrinking back . And what I'm always looking at for myself and then with my clients is how are we showing up authentically and true to who we are , Because otherwise it's a mask and it's exhausting quite frequently .
Speaker 1I love that . So many places to start . It reminds me of one client said to me last week so I have , probably you do as well . I don't know , not all coaches do . I have um messaging support between sessions if appropriate , depending on the client . And one of them said to me last week something about I'm not sure quite whether I should be putting stuff in the messenger and I said why not ? And she said because I thought I might be too much , I don't want to bother you .
Speaker 1I don't want to bother you and I said well , first of all , I have my own boundaries . You cannot disturb them . They are strong . I walk my talk . You put whatever you want into the messenger . That's your space . I'm holding it for you and you are not too much , and what you want to say and what you want to share is not too much . It's there for you with love , and , and she just visibly changed . So , yeah , I love this . Right , let's dive in . Yeah , um , so what ? I ? I find it really interesting as coaches , because this is what happens . Right , clients come to us and we've noticed these themes , so do you want to share some of the stuff that's been coming ?
Speaker 2up . Yeah , I , I love what you said . I'm always reminding my clients like , hey , they'll be like you know , I don't know if I'm making progress , or I don't know this , or I don't know that , like , or I I feel silly and like hey literally heard the same thing from three of our clients this week Like , and I'll , and I'll notice those themes over time . Like , this week is people pleasing , this week it's confidence , but like , we're all human and that's why I have a coach too , that's why you have a coach , because we are also taking those things and sometimes the head and the heart , because I'll even say to my coach , logically , I understand , but my heart I can't get it kind of over this hump , and so we'll work on that . So , theme-wise , confidence is a big one and I think that goes along with the idea of being our authentic self is the confidence to do that , to stand as you are and to stand out . To do that , to stand as you are and to stand out . One of the stories that I've shared sometimes is you know , I wear a lot of black and my style is kind of more what I would say like East Coast style , being from New York originally and in Texas , where I am , it's a little bit different . So sometimes I'll walk in someplace and I'm in black and everyone else is wearing like white floral dresses and I'm like my goodness , I do not fit in . Here is kind of my story that I'm telling myself . But it's like no , you just are owning your style and it's okay if it looks different . And so that confidence and being yourself and letting it shine through is one theme .
Speaker 2People pleasing a lot of people with the shoulds right now of how they should be acting , what they should or shouldn't be doing , what their family wants them to do . Why are you leaving your job to go do this thing ? How could you do that ? And letting people's fears get put on you ? And also what you said . Well , I don't know if I can email them . What if this , what if that ? That's not your job , that's their job . It's their job to say yes or no , to tell you if they're too busy , whatever it is .
Speaker 2So there's a lot of ownership of that other person's boundaries , other person's responsibility and the shrinking back . I don't want to bother them . It might be annoying , they might be too busy . I reached out too many times already . Those kinds of things Like no , because we don't generally think those things , which is funny . If you reach out to me twice , I don't go . Gosh , I'm these email me too . I don't even think that I go shoot , I forgot to message her . Let me , let me message . But on the flip side , we will do it a lot . We're very concerned about the other person and it comes , I think , from a place of empathy and care , but also mixed with that kind of messiness of these messages .
Speaker 1We've been told yeah , yeah , yeah , and also I'm I'm the bit that's really struck me . There is this receiving of other people's fears . You know , it's like we , we carry other people's fears , but is that true ? Because often it's an assumption , we're assuming something , so so that sometimes we are carrying other people's fears because they literally put them on to us , and I think there's there's , think there's a beautiful reminder of a boundary there , of basic self-care , isn't it ? But also there's this assumption about other people that we might be threatening their boundary in some way .
Speaker 1It's just so muddily , isn't it some way ? Or generalist is just so muddly , isn't it ? Which is why , actually , the easiest thing to do is what you're saying is is work out who you are and and where your boundaries are , and and be yourself . But I , I always find that a little bit tricky . That be yourself . What is this ? Be yourself ? It's the . It's easy , it's an easy thing to say , isn't it ? Yes , who's your authentic self ? But there's more to it than that .
Speaker 1And I just wanted to say about , um , the courage it takes , the courage it takes to be coached , which is why I think we're both seeing clients with am I too much ? Am I bothering you too much ? I don't want to offload which , as a coach , you kind of think that's a little bit bizarre because I'm holding the space for you to offload and I recognize your courage and your willingness to be vulnerable . I think it's underestimated how much courage it takes to be vulnerable enough to be coached . It's huge and it took me years to really look at it because we were talking earlier , weren't we , about marketing of coaching and how there's things about it we really dislike , and that , for me , took away from my ability to understand my own fear of daring to say I'm a coach , I can help , and the fear for other people of saying , yeah , I want to be more myself , so I want to come to you and be coached , but it's scary . Because it is scary .
Speaker 2Scary . Yes , I mean even for me as somebody this past week , as somebody who has been doing this work and is used to practicing , that was like I have calls , I have things to do , I have emotions and they just need to go back down because I don't have time for them right now and is there really a safe place to unload them . And I have certain people in my life who have helped me with that safe space where it's like , if you want to yell , if you want to scream , if you want to ugly cry , if you want to just sit in silence , I got you . And it's like okay , whatever that is .
Speaker 2And for the people who love us , or as coaches , where we create that space , we want all of it right . Like when my client's like well , I don't want to fire hose , you yeah , fire hose , let's go . I want all of it . Like I really want to know what's going on , because a lot of people don't have that space at all , not with friends , not with family . So I want to be that space , Like , yes , let's get down in it . And if you are like me and you have had this feeling over time of like it has to be a certain package of the way it's put together .
Speaker 2That is so uncomfortable , like years ago I was at something and I said oh , I don't want to ugly cry . And my coach said oh , I hope you do . And yeah , like 20 minutes later I'm just bawling . Yeah , because it doesn't process , it doesn't come out . We don't heal if we don't tap into that and we're used to being comfortable and that is not comfortable .
Speaker 1But I find it quite helpful to set a expectation boundary around that because , um , a lot of clients will go into a ramble , which I personally think is very necessary . So I'm just listening until they sort themselves out and then I reflect back . What a summary of it and that is part of our job , isn't it ? But we're a mirror , a mirror and a torch , so we start with the mirror , um , but I do find it interesting that I don't think there's any . I don't think there's been one client I've coached who doesn't apologize for that ramble or say things like I'll stop in a minute or , oh , I don't know , just something like I'm not making much sense , am I ? Or just this , and there's an apology in that being themselves , which is really interesting but completely understandable , because actually we wouldn't want to do that with everyone , because we do have to .
Speaker 1We , most of us , have learned the very painful way who it's appropriate to be vulnerable with . So then you're out of practice . It out of practice at being yourself , at being vulnerable , at being open , because where is it safe to do that ? And I think , for the kind of people we work with , who are very driven and like to get things right , mm-hmm , and most of us , I think , have learned that a really painful way . Who is it safe to be ourselves with at work ? Who is it safe to speak openly with ? And very often we get it wrong you're absolutely right .
Speaker 2And then we have that story that goes well , I can't because it's not safe , and we just draw a hard line in the sand rather than saying , okay , that wasn't the right person , so I'm going to maybe put a toe in the water and play around with it a little bit and test out who the people are and find those three or four , rather than going I'm sure you're fine and jumping in so we learn what that dance is . But yeah
Navigating Boundaries and Authenticity
Speaker 2, we've . I've certainly had those moments of like oh , that was not the right choice . Or the story of well , I couldn't talk to that person preemptively because if I tell my boss then this , this , this , this , this , well , wait a minute , let's dial it back . That may be true , but is it true ? And how can you kind of test the waters there ?
Speaker 1but , yeah , I , I find that pool gets smaller and smaller yes , but I love what you said about is the dance , because I I remember ages ago somebody , like 20 years ago , somebody's talking about boundaries and I was like what ? What ? It was almost like okay , so everybody else knows about this secret thing called boundaries . Like they were all raised with a thing called boundaries and I didn't know anything about that . I understand nobody's ever taught me boundaries . Where are they ? I can't see them . Do I have to build them ? Do I have to create them ? Should I know about them ?
Speaker 1There was definitely a lot of shoulding and a lot of well , I failed . I have this weakness because I don't think about it and I I find that very , very common , common with clients where they'll say , yeah , I don't understand . And I love that they say that , because to be able to say that when you're highly successful , you've got halfway through your adult life , to be able to say that in a coaching session , is brilliant , because you're being truthful , you're saying I don't know , I don't understand this , it's something I want to do about it . But I love the way you called it a dance , because it is a dance , it's not a . I think we think of boundaries as these walls . We have to build these brick solid . Boundaries are solid and they're firm and if you're really strong , you've got them all sorted and you know where they are and you're kind of I don't know parading around the perimeter guarding them all the time because you're hung , whereas I think boundaries are found and I think they're found through that dance and I think they're kind of more viscous .
Speaker 2They're more kind of like , you know , depending on how sensitive you are or just depending on , sometimes , the weather , you know boundaries change the other person too , right , like , like people have certain boundaries with family members , like boundaries with parents , like people have certain boundaries with family members , like boundaries with parents might be very different than boundaries with friends or boundaries with a sibling or somebody in your life who is maybe struggling with their own journey and you know , creating that space or or not , while they're in their bottle of growth . So I don't think they can be those hard and fast rules , and as we grow they change as well . I don't think they can be those hard and fast rules .
Speaker 1And as we grow they change as well . And I love what you said about the . So you got it wrong with this person , so now you need to go out and find , and it is that , oh , I wonder if this person and the more you can tune into . Well , for me , I'd be using my body a lot to see just my gut , my heart . But you can feel , can't you ?
Speaker 1I guess , one of the advantages , because I always like to turn things around and I firmly believe that , looking at the world through the gently rebellious lens that everything is for me and by that I don't mean everything's preordained and sorted out for me , I just mean that if I choose to look at the world as if everything is for me and therefore look for the gift in it , it changes how I view it . If I look at the painful times when I've opened up to somebody who's then treated me very badly and misused that information , I can use that now . I can use that experience for me , and one of the ways I would do that is say well , now I'm more aware , now I'm more aware of my sensitivity , I can feel now it's like having thinner skin almost . It's like I can feel that that person's not necessarily trustworthy . So it's not a matter of I know my boundaries .
Speaker 1I can look at this person and this person has this tick , tick , tick , tick , tick . No , it's a feeling and a genuine tuning in and really listening deeply . Can I trust this person ? Does this person have the same values ? And that's a big thing , isn't it ? Values , values , matter . It's not necessarily that somebody treats you bad because they're a terrible person . It may just be that they saw things very differently and your willingness to be vulnerable . They didn't understand that . I mean , it's not always the case .
Speaker 2Some people are genuinely just mean , but you know yes , but that's the part of what you're talking about , the discernment there , yeah , that discernment of .
Speaker 1Just so I don't know that the the values thing very important , but that was another thing to me , because when I talk to clients about values I think is a found sense . You know , look back at your stories and look for the themes , find them . They're found , they're already within you . They're not always a tick-box exercise . I'll pick service , because everybody does , and I'll pick you know .
Speaker 2Yeah , I agree . I agree , and I think , not to move too quickly off of what you said , too , about being in your body , about it , like a lot of times we're . We can get to the point where we're so burnt out or so numb that we can't even listen to what our body is telling us . So do doing that healing and being able to tap into what am I feeling , where am I feeling it ? Like ? For me , a lot lives right here .
Speaker 2So if I'm challenged , let's say , by my coach , to try something new , I'll be like oh , I can feel that , so I go . Okay , that means I'm uncomfortable , so that's the direction I want to go in . Or like , oh , I'm feeling really tight here . There are emotions that want to come out . So , wherever it is you feel it , like you said in your gut , or wherever , it's different for everybody , but being able to tune in and feel what's going on and say is my body giving me a little bit of a warning , maybe about this person , maybe there's just something that feels off and I'm not going to share any further until I can kind of understand what that thing is .
Speaker 1Or .
Speaker 2I feel really peaceful and like regulated with this person . So I'm going to test the waters and see if I can share more . So not negating that , because I think I personally am very head first , so I have learned to come down into my body and it's it's . It creates a nice synergy . But if we lose that or we're not listening to it , then we can kind of go ahead first and be like , well , I think it's fine , and then realize that it's not afterwards .
Speaker 1Yeah , I completely agree , and that's my story as well is just the overuse of my mind , which is brilliant and fast and capable let's do it Very capable of destroying my body . You know , literally destroyed my health , overusing my health , over using and not being aware of those of that felt sense of , uh , self-preservation , intuition , guidance systems , how to ? I mean self-care is one of them , isn't it ? It's much easier to look after yourself when you can connect your body much harder if you're using some I don't know , a pile of must-read books on self-care .
Speaker 2It's not working out for you , it's just another pressure , like beating yourself up with the books that are trying to help you . Yes , yeah , because your list of self-care is yeah a list of books . I mean , who does not have five different lists going of the books they need to read At some point ? It's stupid .
Speaker 1Yeah , well , I call it your invisible must read list . That's right , yeah , and it weighs heavily . And once you dump it that , I think it's tim ferris who said read just in time , not just in case , something like that .
Speaker 2I like that , yeah and I think we've all had that experience . I mean , I have a bookshelf right here . 75% of the books are books to read and I'll randomly just one day go I'm gonna read that one and it's like , oh yeah , that met me exactly where I am and what I needed right now , even though it's been on the bookshelf for two years or it's been on the bookshelf for five years and it was exactly what we did five years ago and it it's too late now .
Speaker 1And you didn't , and you're fine , you're fine , without reading it , yeah . Yeah , or you read the same words Well , not the same words . You read the same message a million different times to different people until you finally go oh , I'm reading the same thing over and over again and the insight's having no effect because all I'm doing is moving on to the next book .
Speaker 2Yeah , I think that's one of the reasons why coaching , for me , has been so valuable , because it's having somebody say it a different way , it's having somebody talk through it with me . It's the accountability because , yeah , the reading . There are some books that I have read . It's a small number that I will recommend over and over again because I've actually felt that they've changed my life or impacted how I live . But outside of that I'm like , yeah , same , same as the other one just said slightly differently . And so in the space where we can actually share it , human to human makes such a difference .
Speaker 1Such a difference .
Speaker 2Yeah , like when you go to a conference and everybody's like then , two weeks later , nothing has changed . I don't want people to feel like that . No , the highs and lows .
Speaker 1I want them to feel like they're really seeing a difference and like walking a day-to-day but that's the difference , isn't it , between an insight and and embodying that insight and it becoming part of you . And it's so easy . Well , it's not so easy to have insights , but it can . It's so easy to have the insight , get excited and then lose it . Yeah , very , very easy to do that , which is such a shame , and because I guess the alternative is something is a crisis actually , and then you pay attention because you have to , whereas in insights and oh , that's nice , wow , and then a few days later , so yeah , there was something big happened and I I don't know what it is anymore because I'm really busy . Yeah , yeah , well said , yeah , so people pleasing , should we have a look at that one next ?
Speaker 2let's talk about that . Yeah , no , you know , you mentioned earlier the people rambling and then apologizing . One of the things I'll have my clients do if it seems like they're struggling with people pleasing is really just tracking how often they're saying I'm sorry , and especially saying I'm sorry around , just like silly thing right like have you been to england ?
Speaker 1yeah , you just walk down the road and you can just hear everybody going sorry , sorry , excuse me , sorry , I'm so sorry , like the wrong person just apologize . Somebody barges into you and you say I'm so sorry .
Speaker 2I mean you apologize , say excuse me , yeah , but it'll be silly things , it you know ? Like hey , hey , do you want that ? Oh yeah , but you know , I'm sorry , I didn't mean to bother you , I must , I must . Why are we ? What just happened there , you
Navigating Safety and Authenticity
Speaker 2know ? So that's one of the big ones where we're constantly worried about others and there's like that subtle sort of control underlying it too of if I'm pleasing you , you're going to be happy and I can control how you're feeling . Not our job , it's our job to show up well and be honest , but I can't control how you feel . You might like what I say , you might not , you might not , and both are okay , and so we're avoiding conflict and we're doing all these things to try to make sure that everything's like calm , but but we don't know , and it also comes down to safety , I guess I do .
Speaker 2Yeah , I think it comes down to safety , absolutely yeah . And so a lot of that behavior is taught behavior right , like as a child or whatever we we were not safe , so we learned whether it's to be quiet or to do the things along the lines of what we're talking about earlier . But , yeah , a lot of times it's safety , even up through adulthood . And so how do we untrain that pattern and see where you are safe and remove ourselves from situations that aren't ?
Speaker 1to the whole other conversation , of course , but okay , let's take that , then , because I think this is really valuable , because I always like to have something practical that people can take away from an episode . So , as two coaches , let's do our , let's see if they're different . Our favorite go-to method for helping people feel safe , um , as adults , or dealing with people pleasing what you know . If you could pick one or you can give us five , we don't care .
Speaker 2No , I know that that's such a good . It's a good question . So the sorry is just a light one of counting that and just noticing where you're doing it . The other one really is for me with clients let's practice in settings being able to say no when you really mean no , because then your yes is more powerful when you say yes and when you say no , especially when you start this , if you've been living in people-pleasing , you will get resist and that makes the people-pleaser , that person , very uncomfortable . It did for me and you almost retrain yourself because I would be like I can't come to that thing and I'd be waiting and the text back would be like , okay , brain check and like what . I was so tense and they were like , yeah , fine , whatever .
Speaker 2So there's a story , there's a moment where we think that something's going to come back to us , either aggressively or in conflict or something , and most of the time it doesn't . So there's the practicing of saying no and the retraining ourselves that it's okay and that it's probably not going to bring conflict . And if it does , then we can have a conversation like an adult and it's okay . And that can be really difficult , especially when the other person doesn't want to have a conversation . As an adult , it can be really difficult , especially when the other person doesn't want to have a conversation as an adult .
Speaker 2Yeah yeah , we are kind of like forced to stand our ground in what's important for us as well . So that's one practice that I work on Okay .
Speaker 1So what would I do ? I think one of the first things , after we've got the awareness and I do love your counting how many times you say sorry , I think that's a great one I think my go-to one , in fact I know my go-to one would be to deliberately cultivate feelings of safety in the body first .
Speaker 1So the behavior , if we think about the idea that everything we do is in order to change the way we feel no-transcript , but it's no longer working out for us , so we still want to feel safe . If we can feel safe first , then the rest will start to drop away . But also we can . Then it's more easy to say no If you know you're safe regardless . So basically you get the feeling you're after , which is the feeling of safety regardless . So you're choosing yourself and for me that's always going to be getting out of the head into the body and then that deliberate .
Speaker 1You know whether it's the self-soothing of you're safe , you're loved , I've got you , and that's a really nice thing to do with somebody you trust because they can hold that space for you . Or with a coach . It's a great thing to do because it's an easy thing to do very quickly in a session . You are safe and you can feel that . And in the end it doesn't need to even be words , because if you can get it smaller and smaller with practice , you can attach it to something you do . Anyway . You can walk around with that feeling I am safe , safe , I am safe , and that that would yeah , because I work a lot with the mind body connection . That would be definitely my my starting place . But yeah , you need the awareness first and I love that counting the stories . I just that's such a good thing , although I think in england we might be in trouble because they just be like we're the counter on the street .
Speaker 2And it might be a simple . It might be a simple switch , like if you're , if you do bump into someone , you say excuse me , but it's just not always using that word to the I'm sorry the labeling of the self , and when you start to track it , you hear it . It's like when you're , when you want to buy a red car , and you see that car everywhere .
Speaker 2Yeah you see , and then you're like goodness , it's like ringing in my ears and so even for myself , almost if I fall back into an old pattern , I'm like I said sorry three times . What's going on in this situation ? So then it it's just almost like a marker . To say something here is making me feel unsafe . Unsafe , yes , and what is it ? And let me let me look at the larger picture here , so that goes back to what you were saying . There's like , yeah , that I've noticed it , something's off . If it's kind of coming back and I'm thinking somewhere , even if I haven't realized it yet , my body , by saying that , is telling me something's not safe for me here . What is it ? So you can take that .
Speaker 1I love that , that's like an early warning system .
Speaker 2It is yes it is , and then you can decide how you want to show up in that situation rather than getting into .
Speaker 1I've noticed with some clients they've they get very stuck in that high alert system where they're scanning . They're actually scanning for threats , but you wouldn't think they can . You know it's not coming . It's not an obvious scanning for threat , but it's the it's . It's an over checking of other people's small behaviors . Yeah , to make sure , just in case , just I'll just check that to see if they've replied to that email or how they replied at me , or I'll go back and reread the message just to check . It's the , it's the . Just checking , just checking , just checking . Am I safe ? Am I safe ? You're safe ? You're safe , never to check again . Nothing terrible is going to happen because you're an adult now , and it's that , isn't it ? It's that , it's the , it's the . The time traveling that our minds do so easily back to being a child when we weren't safe . Yeah , well said , yeah so fast mine yes yeah , so fast .
Speaker 1It's ridiculous . Well , quite clever really .
Speaker 2But if the people are having a moment of play like , yes , tap into that , yeah , but if otherwise , it's yeah .
Speaker 1Is that going back into the past , to when we felt unsafe , and using that as evidence for transporting ourselves into the future to prevent a repeat , even though it's highly unlikely because we're adults now ? Right ?
Speaker 2Well and it's funny too , because that was a lot of those personality traits are things that are really our best qualities , right , like that person might just be really attentive to detail , yeah , but because of the lack of safety , it now shifted into this place where it's become , you know , like a role in the mind , and so how do we bring it back to its like stasis , where it can still be a great quality that we have and trust , like you said , in the safety of where we are now as an adult ? Oh , I love this conversation likewise . Clearly , we could talk for a long time about that .
Speaker 1We could , we could , but I'm aware that we will have to start wrapping it up . So , um , we started with the idea and I just I'd like to kind of bring it back to that so we can start to bring it all together . Although , does it matter ? I always find people find there's something lovely about a free-flowing conversation , which is so different than a scripted thing , isn't it so ? But I'd still like to come back to this . Fine , you were talking about finding and using your authentic voice , and I was really curious about that , because when you said , but people are different at work than they are at home , I kind of want to say but don't you want to be different at home than at work ?
Speaker 2That's a great question , because certainly there are levels of love , relationship casual versus more formal that you wouldn't bring from home to work . There are also places where you have a confidence at home because it's a safe space hopefully I'll I'll bucket that but at work , if you're , if you're constant at home , if you speak your mind and you do it with kindness and love , but then at work you're like , oh , I'm afraid to speak up or I'm holding back my opinions , or I'm not sharing that idea because of whatever the story is , and so you're holding back your creativity , your uniqueness , your experience , all of those things , things , but at home you might not do that . That's where I can see there being this disconnect , for people .
Speaker 1Thank you , I love . I love how you've clarified that and also gone into more depth with it . I'm wondering what do we do ? Where do we go with that ?
Speaker 2I think it's a realm of practice . One of the things I think is trusting ourselves , because this idea of well , I don't want to look stupid , I don't want to sound dumb , I don't want to sound like I don't know what I'm talking about , if you've been doing your job for 10 years , if you were hired to do that role because of your experience , then if you're in a meeting , why wouldn't you speak up ? You've been because of your experience . Then if you're in a meeting , why wouldn't you speak up , like you've been invited into this organization , into this meeting , for your expertise and insights ? And there's also a moment there of curiosity , of , like you know , if this was discussed in a previous meeting , I may have missed it , but have we considered this ? You know , there's always framing that we can do . There's always moments of curiosity where you can ask questions before you just throw out an idea , like maybe this has been discussed or maybe this is not the place for it . But there's also a trust in your discernment , your knowledge , your ability to converse with other adults and that your opinion , question , whatever it is , will be valued in that space . If not , are you in the right space ? Is also a question we can ask right , but why are we saying , oh , I can't say that I might look dumb , I can't say that Somebody's going to have a judgment on what I'm saying ? Like , no , say it , say the thing .
Speaker 2I want to be known as a person who passionately ideas . If it's a no to the idea , that's fine , but at least I put it out there , right , versus I'm constantly holding it back . And so there , if if you have an idea or a thought and you're holding it back , you are stifling your voice . So when I am talking to clients about being themselves , like just say the thing , be confident in it , speak up , use your , use your outside voice . Say the thing it's okay , right , like we don't have to always be concerned . And why do we think we're going to look stupid ? Why is that our judgment on ourselves ? You've been doing your job for 10 , 15 years . No , you're not . You know what you're talking about . Say the thing it's okay .
Navigating Professional Respect and Imposter Syndrome
Speaker 1That sounds very much related to a thing that comes up often for my clients , to do with the fear of losing professional respect . So when you've worked really , really hard and you've reached this place of , you know , ability to do really good things , you don't want to lose that power , that you know that privilege to be . In that way you can do good stuff . You don't want to lose that professional respect . And the problem is is that when you get , when you overwork and don't take good care of yourself and , like we were saying earlier , you come disconnected from your body so you don't have the whole navigation system to navigate what , what are complex power structures , the complexity of working with the human being it can feel like you're on the edge of losing your professional respect . Because if you're , if you're surfing that verge of burnout without realizing it which I know I did myself for years it's very easy to to just tip over the edge into such exhaustion and cognitive overload that actually it is very , very difficult to hold things together , and so at home you tend to get well . In my case it's like this wailing banshee would come out when I'd hit , you know , that trigger point . It was just too much . That was the last straw and and the fear of that happening at work is understandable , because you don't want to lose your stuff at work . You want to keep your hard-won professional respect because it matters very much . It's part of who you are and and so I do think it is completely understandable .
Speaker 1And it also sounds to me like it's linked to imposter syndrome , which in some ways is very much that mind time traveling unsafe thing . Again , yeah , because you've said , you've said a couple of times , you know the , the ability to realize who you are . You've been doing this job a long time . You were hired to do this job because you have all these experience and skill . But we miss that right , we we easily get pulled back in moments of fear to , yeah , I don't really know what I'm doing , I don't really have the experience , I'm just kind of getting away with it . Somebody's going to tap me on the shoulder at any moment and say , uh , wrong place , you thought you had this job , but actually we employed you to photocopy , you know yes , yeah , and it's it that is very pervasive , this idea of I don't belong there .
Speaker 2Yeah , but it's a sort of devastating story because all evidence shows that you do . Yes , but that's what we default to . Why , why and the ability to be like that wasn't my best idea , and that's okay too . Yes , yeah .
Speaker 2That is okay as well . And the other thing I remind my clients is too , is like you're not blurting things out . You're still being kind , you're still being thoughtful . You're not just like , ah , so you can ask the question . You're you're not like , hey , john , that was dumb . What I think we should do is that right , like nobody do For the most part , they're just expressing their idea .
Speaker 2On the flip side , I have also had that experience where I'm like this , this amount of grief and burnout and unresolved stuff that I need to deal with is feeling volcanic , and so I can't really let that top off because it's going to be one of those steamwrecks . Yeah , so I have to hold it all in , which also dimmies the authenticity , and that , for me , is what really hurt my body . We , you know , we forget . We can't just keep that all inside and think it's not going to A come out in some way and B not physically affect us . So there's the two sides of that . So if it's side A , where you're like , well , I'm just I might sound dumb , you're probably not going to sound dumb , so let's talk about that . And if it's , I'm afraid that I'm going to tip over the edge or have an explosion , then can we talk about that , because that is dangerous .
Speaker 1And that's a way way , way past the early warning system that's into late warning system . You know you've ignored some very helpful signals for too long without realizing it , because nobody taught you , and that's okay . For too long without realizing it because nobody taught you , and that's okay . But you know , let's , let's help you out before the eruption , because , yeah , it's not much fun , no , no .
Speaker 2So I I think there's two sides to that coin that are equally worth talking
Building Coaching Relationships Through Dialogue
Speaker 2about . But yeah , I hope my clients , if we're in that late stage , we're really talking about that , because this other stuff right now , not important , not important . We need to deal with this because that's going to be really damaging physically , mentally , emotionally , and that's where your boss is . Like , you know , it wasn't really very kind how you sat down in that meeting , or I saw how you were talking to your employee . We don't want to be interacting with other people like that . And you know , like when I was on my sort of verge of that , I was like I'm doing my best work . Right now I don't really know what's going on , but I wasn't happy with my performance , but it was because I couldn't really tap it the right way oh , I have loved talking to you .
Speaker 1Likewise , heidi , it's been . It's been really nice . I love this . I feel like you should . You're gonna have to come back . I feel like we could just do like a every now and again . Just get Alyssa here and go . What's on your mind ? Let's try this . So it's just brilliant . It's so nice to just sit down with another coach , but this time to record it , because I know that a lot of really rich conversations go on between big-hearted , brilliant coaches such as yourself , and we don't usually record them . So thank you so much for having the courage and the generosity to come on the show and record this together , because I know lots of people are going to really enjoy it and hopefully get a lot from it . So , thank you so much . Is there anything you want to add to that before we wrap this up ? But also , please don't forget to say where exactly people can find out more about you .
Speaker 2Well , thank you for having me , heidi . I really enjoyed our conversation today as well , and I always I like how our insights personally and with our clients can help other people hear little snippets and go oh , that's me . And hopefully give them the little jump start they need . And best places to find me are my website , which is just alissajoshuacom made it easy and then , of course , on linkedin , always message me and say hello . I love meeting new people and getting to chat , so , yeah , brilliant .
Speaker 1Thank you so much , thank you .
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