Ready For Retirement
Ready For Retirement
Should We Always Pull From our Brokerage Account First in Retirement? (Hint: No)
Patrick and Mary will soon both be retired. They are curious about what their withdrawal strategy should be as they balance various retirement accounts, including a pension, IRAs, and a brokerage account. They've been using tax gain harvesting to minimize taxes and plan to eliminate gains by 2024. A key question is whether to withdraw from their IRAs or brokerage account first, considering their state’s tax exclusion. James explains that by managing withdrawals and Roth conversions strategically, some retirees can reduce tax liability, optimize income streams, and preserve the tax-free growth of Roth accounts during retirement.
Questions answered:
Should retirees withdraw from their taxable brokerage accounts or IRAs first to minimize taxes?
How can Roth conversions and state tax exclusions be used to optimize income and lower taxes during retirement?
Submit your request to join James:
On the Ready For Retirement podcast: Apply Here
On a Retirement Makeover episode: Apply Here
Timestamps:
0:00 - Meet Patrick and Mary
3:14 - Retirement taxes are different
6:37 - Consider combined tax rates
8:42 - Tax gain harvesting
12:35 - Strategizing income in retirement
16:48 - Realized gains
20:12 - A twist on traditional thinking
23:47 - The bottom line
Create Your Custom Strategy ⬇️
In today's episode of Ready for Retirement, we're going to take a look at Patrick and Mary's retirement withdrawal strategy to see what they get right and what they might be able to improve.
Speaker 1:This is another episode of Ready for Retirement. I'm your host, james Canole, and I'm here to teach you how to get the most out of life with your money. And now on to the episode. This episode is based upon a question that Patrick and Mary submitted, and the question says this Dear James, my wife and I find your podcasts and videos extremely valuable, not only for the education you provide on financial matters, but also for the non-financial perspectives about retirement that many of us should keep in mind.
Speaker 1:I am 58 and retired, and my wife is 57 and will be retiring next year. Upon her retirement, we will have a $58,500 pension free of state income tax. She has $102,000 in a 403B, I have $430,000 in an IRA, we have $200,000 in a brokerage account and we have a combined $510,000 in Roth accounts. We do own our home outright, but have no near-term plans to tap any of the $350,000 of equity in it. We both will be eligible for Social Security benefits, but have not made any determination as to what age we might take those benefits. Our combined social security at age 62 would be $38,600, or if we wait until age 70, that amount would be $72,420. Given that our taxable income has been comfortably within the 0% long-term gains capital gains bracket, we have spent the last few years harvesting gains in our brokerage account and will have eliminated all gains by the end of 2024. The brokerage account holds approximately $70,000 in money market fund, with the remainder in tax-efficient stock index funds, so further dividend income should not be substantial. I realize that brokerage account with Royals would be the most tax-efficient source of income. However, my state also allows for $20,000 per person exclusion of income from retirement plans and a $16,050 standard deduction, so we could take the $40,000 from our respective IRAs free of state income tax. Of course we would be in the federal 12% or 15% marginal bracket, assuming no major tax legislation. We believe the IRA and 403b accounts, to the extent of the $40,000 state exclusion, should be the first source of our portfolio income, at least while our federal tax rate remains at 12% or even if it reverts to the 15% rate. Would you agree or do you still think the first source of income should be the brokerage account? Of course we could continue to use any remaining room within the capital gains zero bracket to harvest any additional gains going forward. It might also be important to mention that a move out of state in five to 10 years is possible.
Speaker 1:Thank you, patrick and Mary. Patrick and Mary, thank you for that very thorough question and, just to summarize for everyone listening, what Patrick and Mary are saying is they are going into retirement. Patrick's already there. Mary's about to be there very soon. What they've been doing is taking advantage of tax gain harvesting up until now, which I'll elaborate on in a little bit but they're asking where should we start to take income from first?
Speaker 1:The typical withdrawal strategy that most people talk about and most people will recommend is pull money from your taxable account first, so that's your brokerage account, joint accounts, trust accounts, whatever it might be followed by any pre-tax accounts, followed then by your Roth IRAs. That's a standard withdrawal strategy that works in many cases, but potentially not here, and so what I want to do is take some things that Patrick and Mary said and apply them universally, because there's some real nuggets here. Patrick and Mary clearly do a lot of good planning. They look at this quite a bit, I can tell, so I want to pull out some of the things I believe they're doing really well and then also share some perspective on what might they maybe do differently depending on a few different factors. So I'm going to start by pulling out a few principles that I'm gathering from looking at Patrick and Mary's situation. We'll then apply these principles specifically to them, as well as to all of you, so you can see how these might apply to your situation.
Speaker 1:Principle number one is retirement taxes are often different than the taxes you'll pay in your working years. So this is very common where, if you're working and if you live in a high income tax state let's say New York, for example I think that's probably where Patrick and Mary live, because the deductions, the exclusions they're talking about line up perfectly with what New York offers. If you work and live in New York, it's a very high income tax state. Their top income tax bracket is 11%, which is for people with very, very high incomes, but still it's a high income tax state. So people will automatically think sometimes, if they're in a high income tax state like a New York, like a California, when I retire I'm going to get out of the state because that's going to save me a whole bunch of money in taxes. Sometimes that's the case, but you have to keep in mind that the taxation you'll face when you're retired is oftentimes very different than the taxes you'll face when you're still working. For example, let's use Patrick and Mary's situation. So I'm assuming they're in New York just because, like I said, the details they shared line up with New York state income taxes.
Speaker 1:But here's the thing In New York Social Security isn't taxed. In many states Social Security isn't taxed. In New York, for those who are 59 and a half or older, the first $20,000 of retirement income this could be from a corporate pension, an IRA, a 401k. An account like that is tax exempt. So for a married couple that's $40,000 they can pull combined out of retirement accounts or a pension without paying any state income taxes on that. Their pension is tax-free in this case. So obviously this won't apply to every single job you have in New York or a state like it.
Speaker 1:But in this case, with this certain type of pension meaning you work for a certain type of government organization most likely this is state tax-free the standard deduction. So New York has fairly high standard deductions. If you're single you can deduct $8,000 from your taxable income when you're doing your state income tax return. And if you're married, family and jointly, that number is $16,050. Those are for 2024. So you look at this and you add up all those factors A tax-free pension at the state level, tax-free social security, a relatively high standard deduction for the state level, $40,000 of combined exclusion. So the first dollars you take out of your IRA excluded from your state income tax billing. Start to look at all those things and say, okay, you may be able to generate a fairly comfortable income, a very comfortable income, and have it be completely tax-free, at least at the state level.
Speaker 1:So I know I'm looking at Patrick and Mary specific here, but this is a general principle of just because you're in a high tax bracket during your working years and whatever state you lived in. I'm going to be very clear here. I'm talking about the state, because it doesn't matter what state you're in. Your federal tax bill will be the same. But if your state is a high income tax state while you're working, that does not necessarily mean it will still be a high income tax state when you are retired. So something to keep in mind for all of us. So if we assume that high income tax means high income tax, but you have to look at the nature of that income. Is that income a salary? Because in all likelihood, that salary might be taxed differently than social security, which might be taxed differently than a pension or capital gains. So, understanding what the makeup of your income will be in retirement and seeing how will your state specifically tax that income, that's principle number one. Principle number two is somewhat attached is when you're looking at tax strategy Roth conversions where should you pull money from?
Speaker 1:Most of the time on this podcast, I'm only referring to federal taxes. If I'm talking about Roth conversions and doing so at the 12% bracket or 22% bracket or 24% bracket, those are all federal brackets, and the reason I do that is because there's listeners in all 50 states and all 50 states are going to be a little bit different in terms of how they approach income taxes. So, because of that and not being able to go through all 50 states and the differences on every single episode I talk about federal tax brackets episode I talk about federal tax brackets. For each of you personally, though, when you're actually implementing your own tax strategy or withdrawal strategy, don't just look at federal tax brackets. Look at your combined federal and state tax brackets, and that's where you should be making your decision.
Speaker 1:The reasons for this are fairly obvious. Let's assume that, for example, you're in the 22% tax bracket today, you're going to retire next year and you know that you'll still be in the 22% tax bracket. Now I know that current tax law is set to sunset at the end of next year, so that 22% tax bracket today becomes the 25% tax bracket. But just for the sake of simplicity, let's assume that today you're in the 22% bracket. In the future you estimate you'll also be in the 22% tax bracket. You might look at that and say, oh well, why would I do any tax planning? I'm going to pay the same tax rate today on a conversion or withdrawal that I would in a few years on a conversion or withdrawal. So it's going to be a wash. Well, maybe. But let's assume that today you're living in a state like California and being in the 22% federal tax bracket maybe means you're in the 8% tax bracket for California, just to use a simple number. Well, if you're in that tax bracket in California, but you know that in a few years you're going to be moving to Nevada, let's say, with no state income taxes. Don't just look at the 22% bracket today at the federal level and the 22% tax bracket in a few years at the federal level. Look at your all in tax bracket today, which, at the marginal rate, would be 30% when you include federal plus state. Compare that to your future tax bracket of 22%. So make sure that, as you're doing this, you're looking at the combined tax bracket today between federal and state tax brackets, versus the combined brackets in the future.
Speaker 1:The third principle that I want to extract from this is that if your income is under a certain threshold, your brokerage account becomes very much like a Roth IRA. So what's the benefit of a Roth IRA? Well, money that you put in. You don't get a tax benefit on it, but as that money grows, it grows completely tax-free forever, assuming, of course, you meet the holding requirements and have a qualified distribution. So that's pretty cool that money grows tax-free forever. Your brokerage account, when managed correctly, can be like a Roth IRA, especially for people in retirement.
Speaker 1:This is the concept of tax gain harvesting, which it sounds like Patrick and Mary are already doing an excellent job of. So here's an example of how this works. When you sell an asset in a brokerage account, the principal comes back to you tax-free. So you purchased a stock for $10,000 and you now sell it for $15,000. Well, that 10,000 comes back tax-free because you've already paid taxes on it and you're not going to be double-taxed. It's the $5,000 of gains in this example that you pay taxes on. That gain is what's taxed. But the interesting thing is that gain assuming it's long-term, meaning you've held it for a year or more that gain is not taxed at ordinary income rates. That gain is taxed at long-term capital gains tax rates, again assuming it is a long-term capital gain. Those long-term capital gain tax rates are 0%, 15% and 20%, at least in current tax law.
Speaker 1:There is an additional 3.8% tax called net investment income tax if your income exceeds certain thresholds, but for simplicity call it 0, 15, and 20. Well, how do you get to the 0% tax bracket, is the question. If your taxable income and keep in mind your taxable income is really going to be your adjusted gross income minus any deductions, if you are single in 2024, if your taxable income is under $47,025, then any gains you realize under that threshold are taxed at the 0% federal long-term capital gains rate. Anything above that is taxed at 15. And then at another threshold. Anything above that is taxed at 20. If you're married in 2024 and your taxable income is under $94,050, that's the 0% tax bracket for you. And again, keep in mind that these numbers, these taxable income numbers, are after a deduction has already been applied, meaning your actual income can be higher so that after the standard deduction or itemized deduction, depending on what you're using if your income is under those thresholds, you can realize long-term capital gains up until that point in being the 0% federal capital gains bracket.
Speaker 1:So if managed correctly and if your income is under these thresholds, if you're strategic about realizing just enough in long-term gains to fill up that 0% tax bracket, the growth on that portfolio, the growth on those assets, can essentially be tax-free, very much like the growth on a Roth IRA is tax-free. How's that the case? Well, the principal is already tax-free. And if I go back to our example, what if I buy an investment at $10,000 and it grows to 15? Well, if I sell that $15,000 investment and I have a $5,000 gain, if I'm in the 0% tax bracket, I'm not paying taxes on that gain, at least at the federal level. This, of course, also depends upon what state you're in. So check your state tax brackets as well.
Speaker 1:But if you can buy and sell and allow your portfolio to continue growing effectively tax-free, your brokerage account can become incredibly similar to a Roth IRA. So keep that in mind because, as you talk about withdrawal rates and what's the best way to pull money out of a portfolio, typically we want to preserve that Roth IRA. We want that to grow as much as possible for as long as possible, because the benefits of a Roth IRA compound over time. There's no benefit up front. You put money in, you get zero tax benefit. The benefit comes after growth. So after one year maybe there's a little bit of benefit. After five years there's more benefit. After 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, there's a tremendous amount of benefit because that money hopefully has been growing for you. And it's that growth where you experience the benefits the tax-free benefits of Roth IRAs.
Speaker 1:And then, finally, the final principle that I want to extract from Patrick and Mary's question is that the goal of Roth conversions is oftentimes to minimize the tax hit when required minimum distributions kick in. But there are other ways of doing that. So why do we do Roth conversions? One it's to minimize our lifetime tax liability. So why do we do Roth conversions. One, it's to minimize our lifetime tax liability. But two and this is kind of like a 1A and a 1B point is when you turn a certain age 72 or 73 or 75, depending on your birth year you're going to be required to start pulling money out of traditional IRAs and other pre-tax retirement accounts. It's typically those required distributions for people that have saved quite a bit in pre-tax accounts. It's those required distributions that push you into tax brackets that you don't want to be in. So Roth conversions help you smooth out your lifetime tax liability, oftentimes lower your lifetime tax liability, and one of the ways in which they do so is they start pulling money out of your pre-tax accounts today, so they have less money in pre-tax accounts when required distributions kick in, which leads to lower required distributions because more of your money is now in Roth accounts. More on that in just a second.
Speaker 1:So take those principles, let's apply them to Patrick and Mary's situation. Let's look at their retirement taxes. So I have no idea what tax bracket they were in during their working years. I know they're in New York, they're working, so they're in some tax bracket, but I don't know what state income tax bracket. But let's take a look at their income. Number one we know they have a pension of $58,500 coming in and that's going to be tax free at the state level. So that's point one. Number two social security. I don't know when they're going to collect or exactly how much their benefit will be when that is, but let's just assume they collect and when they do it's $2,000 per month each $4,000 per month combined, which is $48,000 per year.
Speaker 1:New York, like many states, don't tax Social Security, so that's another $48,000 tax-free at the state level. Then New York provides a pretty generous standard deduction. For Mary and Patrick it's $16,050. So the first $16,050 of income that otherwise would be taxed is fully offset by this standard deduction. Then New York as well offers $20,000 per person so $40,000 total, if you're married of tax-free income if drawing from a pre-tax retirement account or a corporate pension. So this is money that you can pull from an IRA, 401k, corporate pension et cetera. So if you add all those things up, that's 162,550 potential dollars that they could be receiving in that example and be the 0% state tax bracket. So this is an important concept to keep in mind because if they earn that amount of money in their working years, they would be in a higher than 0% tax bracket. But this is something that's important to note.
Speaker 1:As you're doing your strategy, as you're doing your planning, a lot of people will reach out to us here at Root Financial and they'll say, hey, we hear you talk about tax strategy. I get it. I think that works, probably for some people. But my spouse and I or you know just me maybe we've just been W-2 wage earners our whole career. So, yeah, we've done the 401k, we've contributed to HSAs, we've done well. But that whole tax strategy thing you talk about, I think people with lots of real estate or a really complex estates I get that. That's probably not for me. It would say that actually couldn't be further from the truth. Almost everybody in retirement can use a lot of tax strategy and the reason for that is most people in their working years their income is just a W2 wage. There's really not a whole lot you can do with that. Yes, you have your 401k. Like I said, there are some other deductions, but that's about it.
Speaker 1:When you're retired, that's when you get to create the type of income streams that works best for you, not just from an income perspective but from a tax perspective, and you get to be strategic of how much of this is going to be social security income. How much of this income is going to come from our brokerage accounts. Is that going to be a dividend? Is it going to be interest? Is it going to be a long-term capital gain? You get to tailor that. How much money are we going to pull from our IRA or our Roth IRA or equity in a home, whatever the case might be?
Speaker 1:But when you need to manufacture your income in a very creative way, you absolutely have tax strategy available to you and it's important to note that not only do you have that available to you, but oftentimes there's some significant tax benefits to income and retirement that you didn't otherwise have during your working years. So keep that in mind and you can see how Mary and Patrick here are doing a really good job of this. It seems, at least, of being aware of what exists to the point that they could create a very comfortable income in being a 0% tax bracket at the state level. The next thing that Patrick and Mary say that I want to point out is they say given that our taxable income has been comfortably within the 0% long-term capital gains bracket, we have spent the last few years harvesting gains in our brokerage account and we'll have eliminated all gains by the end of 2024. Now when they say eliminated gains, that doesn't mean they go by a whole bunch of losers to offset those gains. It means they're selling their gains. Once they hit long-term capital gain status, they sell up to the point that that gain would be tax-free. And what they do I don't know, actually, exactly what they do because I haven't talked to them about this but you can just reinvest that money in the very same stock or very same investment you sold and just step up your cost basis.
Speaker 1:So say I purchase stock in Apple. I always use Apple as an example. If I buy Apple at $10,000, it appreciates to $20,000. That's great. But at some point I'm going to sell that and when I sell that, that $10,000 of gains is going to be taxable. Well, if I have, let's say, for example, $5,000 left at the 0% long-term gains tax bracket before I step up into the 15% tax bracket, I might sell enough Apple stock today to realize $5,000 in gains because those gains are tax-free, and then reinvest right back into Apple stock. There is no wash sale rule for long-term capital gain sales. What I might do the next year is the same exact thing. I've realized 5,000 of those gains. Repurchased Apple, stepped up my stock basis. Next year I might do the same thing, assume I'm in the same tax bracket or the same tax situation. We realize the next $5,000 of gains. So when Patrick and Mary are saying we've eliminated our gains, they've actually still realized these gains. They've achieved these gains. I'm speculating, of course, a bit here. I don't actually know what their investment profile looked like, but I'm guessing they sold their gains up to a certain threshold and then reinvested, and so they've eliminated the taxation on any future sales from these gains. So this is great planning.
Speaker 1:Now here's how this applies to an overall withdrawal strategy. Typical withdrawal strategies exist to maximize the value of Roth IRAs because, like I said, that's going to grow and compound forever and that's all tax-free growth. But if you can treat your brokerage account kind of like a glorified Roth IRA, you can do the same thing with your brokerage account, and it may become equally important to preserve the value of your brokerage account as it is to preserve the value of your Roth IRA. So just something to keep in mind there. If you manage your brokerage account correctly, it can become like a Roth IRA for you. All right. The next thing that Patrick and Mary said is they said it might also be important to mention that a move out of the state in five to 10 years is possible. Very important to know.
Speaker 1:Like I mentioned before, when you're doing Roth conversions or withdrawal strategies or tax strategy, you're oftentimes comparing your current tax rate to your future tax rate. Well, you have to take a look at your current tax rate today, not just at the federal level, but also at the state level, and then compare that to your projected tax rate in the future. An important thing to note in retirement is we just went through a list of Patrick and Mary's income sources and saw that those could all be tax-free at the New York level, the state I'm assuming they live in at that level. Well, the different state they move to might be completely tax-free. I know a lot of people from New York moved to Florida. Maybe it's just completely tax-free, or it may be a state that's not tax-free and doesn't have the same benefits of taxation of different income sources. So just keep this in mind when are you today in the federal level? Where might you be in the future at the federal level and then the state level.
Speaker 1:If you're planning to move out of state, how do each state treat different types of income differently, so you can make informed decisions there as well? And then, finally, and this is the point that I really wanted to touch upon is they say this they say we believe the IRA and 403b accounts, to the extent of the $40,000 state exclusion, should be the first source of our portfolio income, at least while our federal tax rate remains at 12% or even if it reverts to the 15% rate. Would you agree or do you still think the first source of income should be the brokerage account? So this is a great point. Like I mentioned at the beginning, traditional thinking is pulled from the brokerage account first, then the IRA once the brokerage account is depleted, then finally the Roth IRA. Many times that can be the right call, especially if you're trying to support a Roth conversion strategy. The reason this supports a Roth conversion strategy is, if you withdraw money from brokerage account first, that can help to keep your taxable income low, which frees up space, so to speak, to convert specific pieces of your IRA to your Roth IRA or specific amounts, I should say, from your IRA to your Roth IRA to fill up or to reach desired income levels, so that's very common to take that approach when you're withdrawing money.
Speaker 1:Other times, however, you should take a different approach, and this is where withdrawal strategies aren't universal. There's not a one size fits all approach. It depends upon your total portfolio balance. It depends upon the makeup of that portfolio balance of how much of your money is in different accounts. It, of course, depends upon your overall tax bracket today and your overall tax bracket in the future. It depends upon longevity. It depends upon social security benefits. There's so many different things that this depends upon that. You can't boil it down to a one size fits all strategy, but this could be a case where a different approach makes sense.
Speaker 1:Patrick and Mary's case could be one of those cases. So, for example, like he said, he said look, we have these really great benefits of pulling money out of our IRAs at the state level. We get to exclude the first $20,000 of gains on all of that. So if we want to preserve the value of our Roth IRAs and let that keep growing, if we want to preserve the value of our brokerage account and let that keep growing, do we pull at least for our first withdrawal amounts $20,000 each from our IRAs to get the state benefits, because all of that is tax-free and what that's doing is it's keeping the value of our IRAs lower, which offsets the impact of required distributions in the future, and it preserves the value of our Roth IRAs and our brokerage account and allows that to continue to grow. So that could absolutely be a great withdrawal strategy. That's a great counterpoint to this typical, the traditional approach of pull from brokerage account first, then IRA, then Roth IRA.
Speaker 1:Now, a counterpoint to the counterpoint is what if, instead of pulling the 20,000 each from your IRAs to create income to live on, what if you use that $20,000 exclusion but instead did it as a conversion? What if you converted 20,000 from your IRAs to your Roth IRA? Now, even as I'm saying this out loud, I would have to just double check that there's no weird provision with New York income tax law that says a conversion would be treated differently than a withdrawal. I don't think so, but that would certainly be something that, if you're listening, as always, consult with your financial advisor or tax advisor on this. But that's the thing I would look at first.
Speaker 1:What if, instead of living on 20,000 each so 40,000 combined of IRA withdrawals. What if you use that $40,000 combined of IRA withdrawals? What if you use that $40,000 exclusion to convert money from your IRA to your Roth IRA and then you lived on your brokerage account and pulled $40,000 from there to meet your living expenses? What's the benefit of that? Well, the benefit is yes. In both cases, you reduced your IRA balance by $40,000. In one case, you spent that $40,000 and that was it. It was gone. In the other case, that $40,000 is now in your Roth IRA, grown completely tax-free forever.
Speaker 1:So this is even how you can take the traditional approach and apply it to a non-traditional approach of understanding where should you take money from first? The bottom line, though, is there's no one-size-fits-all strategy. Sometimes, it simply is best Take money in the traditional order. Other times take a little bit from your IRA, a little bit from your brokerage account, a little bit from your Roth IRA. The goal is to see how can you understand where you are today, where you're going to be in the future, and withdraw money in a very strategic way to ensure that you're minimizing your lifetime tax liability. If you do that, and if, every year, you're looking at this to say how can we optimize this, chances are good that you could be saving a good amount of money in taxes while also helping to optimize the income that you can create for yourself over the course of your retirement. So, as we start to wrap this up, patrick and Mary, it sounds like you're already thinking about some really good things here and thank you for submitting this question. I think that what you're doing what I can see from the outside looks like you're doing a lot of things right. There are some things I might push back on a little bit or just explore from different perspectives, such as should you be taking that $40,000 as income or should you use that exclusion to count towards a converted amount and help to build the value of your Roth accounts? Because at some point, if all of your money is in Roth accounts and brokerage accounts, you're in a really sweet spot to where taxes are going to be minimized and you have a lot of flexibility as to what you can do with your portfolio. But that is it for today, patrick and Mary. Thank you so much for the question.
Speaker 1:If you are listening to this on YouTube and you're liking it, please make sure that you subscribe. Please make sure that you give a thumbs up and a comment on the video. If you're listening on podcasts, I would really appreciate if you leave a review. If you're enjoying the show helps more people to find the show. Always love getting the feedback from all of you. So that is it for today. Thank you all for listening and I'll see you next time.
Speaker 1:Root Financial has not provided any compensation for and has not influenced the content of any testimonials and endorsements shown. Any testimonials and endorsements shown have been invited, have been shared with each individual's permission and are not necessarily representative of the experience of other clients. To our knowledge, no other conflicts of interest exist regarding these testimonials and endorsements. Hey everyone, it's me again for the disclaimer. Please be smart about this. Before doing anything, please be sure to consult with your tax planner or financial planner.
Speaker 1:Nothing in this podcast should be construed as investment, tax, legal or other financial advice. It is for informational purposes only. Thank you for listening to another episode of the Ready for Retirement podcast. If you want to see how Root Financial can help you implement the techniques I discussed in this podcast, then go to RootFinancialPartnerscom and click start here, where you can schedule a call with one of our advisors. We work with clients all over the country and we love the opportunity to speak with you about your goals and how we might be able to help. And please remember nothing we discuss in this podcast is intended to serve as advice. You should always consult a financial, legal or tax professional who's familiar with your unique circumstances before making any financial decisions.
