Zero Proof, Full Flavor: Redefining the Cocktail Culture

In this episode, Kristen sits down with Lisa Danforth, the forward-thinking founder of tonique, a company at the forefront of the alcohol-free cocktail movement. Lisa dives into her venture into mindful mixology, inspired by the noticeable increase in alcohol consumption during the COVID pandemic. She shares her passion for creating tonique, an alcohol-free bar service that caters to the growing acceptance of sober lifestyle choices. The conversation covers the landscape of the alcohol-free beverage industry, touching on the challenges, innovations, and the importance of community support and accessibility for those looking to reduce their alcohol intake.

Lisa is a vocal advocate for the destigmatization of sobriety and introduces listeners to her unique, flavorful creations. Using unconventional ingredients like coffee, peppers, and teas, she crafts complex mocktails that aim to stand out rather than mimic traditional spirits. Her efforts through tonique offer sophisticated alternatives and encourage a broader movement towards inclusive and wellness-oriented social drinking cultures.

The episode concludes with Lisa sharing her aspirations for tonique, including expanding the alcohol-free community and potentially opening a brick-and-mortar alcohol-free lounge. Through her story and tonique's mission, the episode highlights a shift towards more mindful, judgment-free beverage choices, underscoring a future where sobriety and choice are celebrated within the social drinking landscape.

About Lisa

tonique was founded by Lisa Danforth, an experienced caterer, and 30-year entrepreneur passionate about mindful mixology and creating fun, flavorful, and elegant alcohol-free cocktails. Lisa is also a leadership and work-life wellbeing coach and founder of Lisa Danforth Coaching.

We’re an alcohol-free bar service in beautiful Burlington, Vermont, offering a fun and robust menu of craft cocktails, beer & wine, along with shrubs, bitter and functional beverages for your events.

All of our house syrups and shrubs are crafted using fresh ingredients. Our citrus juices are always freshly squeezed for our craft cocktails.

tonique’s mission is to redefine social experiences by keeping the ritual and shifting our collective relationship with alcohol.

Whether sober, sober-curious, pregnant, an athlete, or looking for ways to improve your mental health and wellbeing, we provide an extensive selection of non-alcoholic options for your event.

Our love for community building, sustainability, delicious drinks, and creating beauty is at the heart of who we are and at the core of every decision we make.

Connect with Lisa:

toniquemobilebar.com

Instagram

Facebook

Transcript

Kristen Daukas: 0:04

Welcome to Conversations on the rocks. The podcast where the drink is strong and the stories are stronger. I'm your host, Kristen Daukas. And this isn't your average chat fest. Here real people spill the tea alongside their favorite drinks from the hilarious to the heart wrenching each episode a wildcard. You'll laugh, you may cry, but you'll definitely learn something new. So grab whatever whet your whistle and buckle up it's time to dive into the raw, the real and the ridiculously human. Let's get this chat party started. Hey, everyone, it's Kristen. And today I am excited. I have with me my friend Lisa Danforth and Lisa is an experienced caterer third year entrepreneur who's passionate about mindful mixology and creating fun, flavorful and elegant, alcohol free cocktails. Her company is called tonic. Lisa is also a leadership and work life wellbeing coach and founder of Lisa Danforth coaching and insider tip. Here's here's a sneak peek. Her favorite word is no. Hey, Lisa.

Lisa: 1:14

How are you? I do love that two little letter word. It's so powerful. It's

Kristen Daukas: 1:17

a whole sentence.

Unknown: 1:19

It is. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. I'm super excited. Well nervous with all the questions, but that's okay. Well, we'll roll with it and have some we

Kristen Daukas: 1:26

are going to have some fun. And I think you've got so much to educate people on as far as the and it's a big thing right now there's a huge movement with this alcohol free thing. And you know, as we've talked about it, whether you're sober, sober, curious, whether you're pregnant, whether you're a recovering addict, whatever people first and foremost ally, Ally and ally. Exactly. First and foremost, just let's say this right here, it is none of your business why somebody doesn't drink. Hallelujah. If you go in and you know, my history, you know, with my my ex husband, if somebody doesn't want to order a drink, you don't sit there and go. Oh, are you sure? Yes. I said no. That's boring. Yeah. Right, exactly. It's like so those of you out there listening, if you're with somebody that chooses not to drink, it's none of your business and shut your piehole

Unknown: 2:23

it's really about not calling someone out. For some reason, alcohol is the one drug in our community or us whatever, that there's something wrong with you if you're not drinking, so there's this shame when we don't drink and that just seems strange alcoholic should say. And we That's the beautiful thing about the alcohol free movement. And this mindful drinking is sober, the word sober is actually coming back into vogue, there's not a negative connotation, or as much of a negative connotation. Because a lot of people are I'm sober. And that doesn't mean that they had a drinking problem. It might just be I mean, it could be religion, right? It could be whatever it is, but that mindful drinking is truly coming back or truly taking place, which is just lovely to see. Right?

Kristen Daukas: 3:09

It's not prohibition. It's not prohibition people it's a choice. And you know, we just came out of dry January. Well, just I mean, it is April seems like it just feels like but you know, I'm starting to see other months. What's the October they've labeled October October October October.

Unknown: 3:28

So there's February was try February, or dry February dry January, try February. July is actually a really big month for the alcohol free sales as well because of Fourth of July and summertime and all of that. It's also really big time for for the sales for non alcoholic. So

Kristen Daukas: 3:46

what was your inspiration? I mean, I know your story, but my friends out in the in podcast land do not so you know you are you still are a coach, but you made the decision with all of us supporting you and going go Lisa go to really dive into this. So what was your what inspired you to create an alcohol free bar service, which hopefully will also soon turn into a brick and mortar? Yeah,

Unknown: 4:12

lounge? I'm really hoping for that. That's an excellent question. And it's exciting for me, but it's doesn't seem really super exciting when I tell the story, but it's really it began in COVID when I was home alone, and I was a caterer for 14 years. So I was playing around with all sorts of alcohol free spirits and shrubs and simple syrups and all of that. And then I started to watch the alcohol rates, the consumption rates just climbed just going through the roof, especially with women, especially with women. Women are now on par with men for drinking and that's because the alcohol companies have really targeted women for drinking. But I was watching all of that rise. I was watching depression, anxiety, domestic abuse, child abuse, neglect all of these different stats just on the rise. And I believe that there was a direct tie to a lonely ans but also that alcohol consumption. So it just kept piquing my interest. And I kept playing around with all of these spirits and shrubs and just having fun with it for a couple of years, then a friend of mine was like, you know, effect pursuing this and having fun with it. Why don't you actually just take it hold it lightly and see about starting a business. And I was like, that's a really good idea. And at that point, it literally just unfolded. I just, I whipped together a website. And in a matter of weeks, it was amazing. And it has been such a fun journey. I've been getting such an amazing response from the community. And it's really all about building community. It's not just, you know, just plopping this business in there. But it's about building community. And the thing is, is the largest barrier to growth in the communities out there in the US especially, is accessibility. The UK has an ace like they've got it all over the place. But in Vermont, there is no bottle shop and a lot of other places. There are no bottle shops, or a bar might have a couple of alcohol free cocktails or, you know, bottle of beer or something. But it's it's not accessible. So for me to be able to bring it out to the community and show it to people. I do tastings so people can come in and taste the alcohol the spirits before non alcohol, I should say before they buy because it's not inexpensive. It's actually a little more expensive than traditional alcohol because it takes so much more to make something that emulates the flavor and has a satiating essence to it.

Kristen Daukas: 6:24

So you have a mocktail, right now, let's tell tell us about it. And then I want you to describe it. And how how? How are you able to mimic the complexity and enjoyment of those traditional cocktails? What is going to make me say I want a $15 alcohol free beverage over I just ball just have no passion. I mean, other than the alcohol piece of it, right?

Unknown: 6:53

That's exactly the alcohol piece really, really isn't. But the thing is, is we want to have alternatives. And that's one of the biggest barriers also is that there there have been no alternatives. So people who don't particularly want to drink will still continue to drink because there isn't anything else out there. There hasn't been so what I'm drinking tonight is it's called a black velvet. And it has Pathfinder hemp and root which is like an amaro very flavorful, very herbaceous, rich in the mouth got wonderful mouth texture. This is called Tennyson, black, ginger, the combination of these two together, it really has that classic sort of madman kind of feel cocktail. And it's got some all the bitter alcohol free bitters, orange bitters, which are great and then a little bit of just cherry juice.

Kristen Daukas: 7:39

If you're not watching this, she has Bada Bing cherries, y'all

Unknown: 7:43

bing,

Kristen Daukas: 7:44

bada bing, gotta gotta

Unknown: 7:45

have the bottoming. They're absolutely delicious. So you just put these together. The beautiful thing is, is when you add the bitters and you add a little bit of the cherry juice, it really brings out the mouthfeel and that's what we want to focus on. On making an alcohol free cocktail. Sometimes we need to add a little bit of salt tincture, which is just four parts water one part salt, and what that does is it creates more of a texture in your mouth brings up that mouthfeel of alcohol because you can omit eliminate is significantly different than you know a gin and tonic type of thing the feel of it in your mouth. You'll also find a lot of spirits spirit alternatives that have a capsicum, a pepper type to it. So it's got that burns with emulates the burn of alcohol. Interesting,

Kristen Daukas: 8:30

interesting. Let's talk a little bit about I know that you're very involved in the community. What is the reaction been? And I'm sure that it's gotten some I don't want to say better, but kind of better, more comfortable, right? Because it's such a especially for people are, so I'm gonna say Gen X and Boomers, right? It is such a weird concept that if I'm going to drink a cocktail a mocktail, why don't I just drink cocktail? And again, I understand that it's in we've had this conversation before about people. Have you had any resistance from say, you know, someone wanting interested in having you come set up your alcohol free bar? Or they're typically also regular bars there as well? Or are you finding that most of these events that you're doing, it's all alcohol free? Does that make sense? It does

Unknown: 9:25

make total sense, right? So we can set up as a bar alone. So it's an alcohol free bar, we're the only one that serving, we can also set up alongside a bar itself. That's been a big opposition. I've had people have that, you know, just contort their fit. You mean you'd have to have two bars. We don't have to have two bars, but I can promise you that the alcohol bar does not put nearly as much time effort and care into creating a beautiful crafted cocktail elicits non alcoholic, delicious and adult cocktail. Right. So yes, you can absolutely get some nice cocktails and alcohol free cocktails, it won't be their primary focus. It would be like going to a steak house and asking for you know, chicken Marbella. Whatever. It's there. It's not what they focus on and what I do and what alcohol free bars focus on is creating the experience so it emulates I mean, our tagline is the ritual without the alcohol. So have I gotten pushback? Oh, hell yeah. I've gotten some pushback. I did a New Year's Eve party in Burlington on Church Street and I had one woman walk up with completely indignant, it's all non alcoholic. She rolled her eyes turned on her heel huffed and just stormed away. I mean, it was actually funny. I was like, okay, not for you. That's okay. No, cool. But, and I have most of the people that have come up to our bar, have been super excited to try it. Or oh my gosh, I've been sober for three years. I've been sober for nine years. I've been sober for three weeks. And they're so excited at the opportunity to have have an option have an alcohol free, flavorful cocktail. Couple of people have been like, oh, so Coholic, free, alcohol free. I'm like, Just try it. You can throw it out. You can spit it out. Don't just try it. Every single one of them has been like, this is good. And almost all of them came back for a second. So you know, the thing is, is being open minded to it. Try it. The beautiful thing and I'm gonna go down another little tangent here. The beautiful thing is me. Yes, we do. There's alcohol, free bourbons and gin and tequila is those are our alcohol substitutes. They're trying to emulate bourbon, gin, tequila, right? What I see doing really well, and those are doing really well. But what I see doing really well are the alcohol free alternatives. So they're not trying to compartmentalize them and put them into a box like, doesn't taste like bourbon and like, well, it's not bourbon. It is a spirit and alcohol free spirit is trying to emulate bourbon and they've done a really great job. I have one here that is my favorite. It's it's Kentucky 74. It spiritless it's a woman owned company, which I always love to promote a woman on covering. It is a really nice bourbon. It smells like bourbon, alcohol free, obviously. But it's not there's zero alcohol. So have I had pushed back 100%. But for the most part, people have really softened once they try it and realize you can truly have a sophisticated delicious alcohol free drink well, and

Kristen Daukas: 12:17

I just imagined that the more popular than the move becomes, that's why they get such a great idea for you to focus all your efforts on it is you know, you're going to it's you're at the beginning of kind of a revolution. Because the millennials and Gen Z are not. I mean, they're fine. I mean, you know, okay, some of them are more into edibles, but okay, that's fine. You know, California, exactly. California sober, and, but they still, you know, I know when my oldest daughter goes out and she doesn't want to drink, she's stuck with sucking on tonic water. And because so many sodas, a splash of cranberry, whatever. And because it going back to how people kind of poopoo if you're not drinking, and it's like in but she doesn't want to drink water. So these are great alternatives. And you and I had a conversation about just yesterday and something that was able to in our professional world that I was able to pass along and it was very well received the way I did it. Like you said profit over the profit over paper. And which is establishments, restaurants, bars, etc, need to make the to stop making it an afterthought and incorporate it into their drink menu. So it doesn't you know it, you've already said are you sure you're not drinking. So, you know, people that aren't drinking, they don't want to have that additional, you know, beasty not drinking, not drinking. So you don't want to have a separate menu, I guess is where I'm going and that you were telling me about and I was just recently in a place where it was just completely woven in.

Unknown: 14:04

When it's woven in, people feel very comfortable because they're ordering like they would order a black velvet. And they would know that it's alcohol free and it comes in it looks like it unfortunately again our society there's something wrong with people if they're not drinking alcohol. So if you look at the statistics, there are there's a fairly high percentage of people, that percentage is coming down over the last year or two that will continue to drink because they don't they're a they're afraid of losing their community that their friends if they stopped drinking, they peer pressure to not drink all of that. So they're actually drinking even though they don't want to because of fear of whatever it may be, which I just think is so sad. And there have been reports or you know, studies done on the bullying. Oh, come on. It's only a drink. Oh man, have a drink. So that gets people staying drinking, even though they don't want to because they're afraid of removing themselves from their community. and loneliness, which I think is terribly sad. And that's why with alcohol free it is about and we talk about inclusion. This is exactly what is inclusion, right? Being able to have an alternative that doesn't make you stand out. And unfortunately, even in today's day and age, we still want to fit in, right? You don't want to stand out like a sore thumb when everyone else is drinking, and we've got a plastic water bottle, because that's all they've got for you. Right?

Kristen Daukas: 15:24

And I love water. I drink water all day long. But if I'm out with my friends, I don't want another water. And you know, I love how you've create crafted these crafted these recipes. Because even in the sad conversation that I had yesterday, the person was like, oh, yeah, well just to have regular drinks and just take the alcohol out of him like now because it doubt now your alcohol free Margarita is some damn sweet and sour sauce.

Unknown: 15:51

Well, it's also a virgin, right? What adult wants to say I'd like a virgin Margarita, please. Yes, that just you're not going to do it. You're going to order water. And what were you were saying before you're leaving money on the table as

Kristen Daukas: 16:02

business owners? Absolutely Oh, many

Unknown: 16:04

benefits for the for the customer. But for you as a business owner, you don't need to do that. You don't need to add alcohol free, but you are leaving a significant amount of money on it. Yeah, because

Kristen Daukas: 16:13

somebody will buy a $12 mocktail. Or they will if they don't have it, they will, they will take a $0 glass of water water. And if that's what you're, you know, we're none of us are in business to give things away. Right? We're in business to make a profit. I mean, we really are. So how have you seen and we kind of touched on this already? In everything that you've done with tonic? Are you starting to see more shifts in the acceptability and the interest and I would say some of your pop up shops. That's probably been a great opportunity for you to really edit because I've seen some of the pictures. And it looks like people are just like, oh my god, I had no idea.

Unknown: 16:58

Yeah, that's exactly they're coming in and they're tasting. And it's, I mean, the nonalcoholic movement is where the vegan movement was, what, six 810 years ago, like, oh, it's vegan, it's gonna sock right. We are moved starting to move past that. And what I love about doing these pop ups is I have 1215 bottles of spirits open that you can actually taste. So when people can come in and they can actually taste it. And I'm like, Damn, that's good. And I'll actually there's a few things like the drink I'm drinking tonight. I can actually mix that up. Not exact because I don't always have the cherry juice, but they can get an idea of the mixture of it. So they were like this is really satiating, or I did a bowl of RDA for someone and I just mixed the three different so both RDA is bourbon, sweet vermouth. And like a Campari with or Negroni, you would just put substitute Berman for gin. And I put those three together and a little cup and they bought all three of the bottles at 38 to $40 apiece, because it's the ritual that the alcohol that satiated their need for just something you know that that that ritual and that ritual is often at the end of the day to delineate between work and home, we pour that glass of wine, we have that gin and tonic or whatever it is. So we can still continue that habit, that ritual, but it doesn't have to affect our energy level or clarity level or relationships, any of it.

Kristen Daukas: 18:20

And if you're just dropping in I'm talking with Lisa Dan forth who is the alcohol free founder of or should the founder of the alcohol free tonic mobile bar, which will will be a brick and mortar at some point. So tell me what are some of the most surprising or unique ingredients these you have that you use in your syrup's in your shrubs? Oh, there's

Unknown: 18:44

I've made a coffee syrup, which was crazy.

Kristen Daukas: 18:48

So to become an Espresso Martini, yes,

Unknown: 18:52

so good. I mean, so very good. And multiple other things. I have I've had a hard time finding a muscle that I can have a good flavor, but it doesn't have quite the smokiness that I want. So I have made a simple syrup, just which is equal parts, sugar and water. And I add in I always butcher this it's like Lapsang Shu song, whatever it is that really smoky tea. So I'll throw a tablespoon into that to the simple syrup. Let it just cool down for an hour to strain it and now I have this beautiful smokiness that I can add a teaspoon to a cocktail like a Maximilian affair which is just a lovely Mezcal with an elderflower liqueur, so good. But you've got that smokiness to it which is just amazing. I've made some with us made a tincture with Sichuan peppers, which is a really it's got the kick to it. So you just need a couple of drops. It's almost like a like a bitter balsamic vinegar, strawberry and mint shrub. Yo it's so so so tasty. Oh another one a toasted Sesame seed, rice wine vinegar shrub. Oh my gosh I serve that with fresh squeezed cucumber juice and club soda. You would be blown away at the flavor. I did that at an event A few weeks ago and right beautiful green and you put a cucumber in as a garnish. So if you just toast the sesame seeds, add it to the vinegar and the sugar and a touch of salt. Let it cool, blend it and then you put it through a sieve to take out any of the particles and you've got the toasted sesame seed rice wine vinegar shrub. Crazy tasty hear what actual AI generated voices are saying about the Williston podcast. It can be amusing it's better than going to the dentist the award winning we list on podcast can be found just about anywhere that you get podcasts listening to Eugene is better than looking at Eugene. Let's put it this way that Whelan's dot podcast is better than having your leg broken by a longshot if AI generated voices are saying that about the Wheelers gone podcast? Shouldn't you be a listener to tell

Kristen Daukas: 21:02

us exactly what a shrub is? Most of us know what syrup is like a simple search like I have. I've infused like rosemary, Rosemary syrup for cocktails, etc. So And every year, every year, as soon as my mint comes in, I make a mint infused simple syrup for mosquitoes. But what is a shrub? Yeah, so

Unknown: 21:22

a shrub is how they used to preserve their fruits and even veggies years ago. So it is basically this similar quantities of sugar and vinegar. I like to use for the most part vinegar with the mother in it. So it's got the natural mother too. And I'm like, I don't know how to explain that. But it's equal parts sugar, vinegar, and then you can put any type of fruit herb spice whatever, I do a wonderful lemon, cucumber shrub, which is crazy tasty. You peel three lemons, chop up some cucumbers, ice, put them in slices, mix it in with the sickness sugar in the vinegar and leave it on the counter for 24 hours, then you just strain it, and that you've got the most delicious little sweet, tart pickles that you can just use. But then the shrub is great with just simply club soda or you could put in a tonic or mix it with any type of spirit or whatnot. It's super easy and super liquid

Kristen Daukas: 22:12

considered the shrub or is it the the you know, the the fruits and the things of that nature? Is that considered?

Unknown: 22:18

That's an excellent question. What what I think is that the shrub is what you're drinking. Okay, so you preserve they used to preserve the fruits and veggies and whatnot in the vinegar and the sugar. But the shrub is what you drink. I could be very wrong on that. So you might get 100 People like she's wrong.

Kristen Daukas: 22:36

Let them come by now let

Unknown: 22:38

them sticking with it. I'm

Kristen Daukas: 22:39

trying to come. I don't care. So how is how are you and tonic educating folks? As far as like, you know, making them form feel more welcome and assessable. Do you? Again, we touched on this a little bit with some of the events but do you find most of the people that are coming up to you already have experience alcohol free libations? Or are you having to do as much education as you are mixology?

Unknown: 23:11

Education is a huge component of it because it's not like I said it's not readily available around here. So people might have ordered something and they might see something or they might have tasted something in a cocktail at a restaurant. But it's really education and talking about the mouthfeel and adding a salt tincture and it why wine it has some effervescence to it actually has more of the mouthfeel of traditional wines. So that just tastes so much better than a flat wine. Because alcohol free ones still have a long way to go. They've come a long way I have found some really tasty wines. I found a great red wine. It's a surely it's called su R el why surely red bland, super simple got a very light effervescence does not taste grapey it is not that most delicious Pinot Noir, but it's still satiating and then SoVi sparkling white is delicious. So that sparkling. So when I can educate people that why one might taste better over the over the other is often because of the sparkle. You can also add a little bit of aromatic bitters to your alcohol free if you want to keep it alcohol free, but a couple of dashes of alcohol free bitters to a red wine, because the red ones are the ones that are lagging the most behind and something about it fills it out softens the edges to it. And it makes it quite delicious.

Kristen Daukas: 24:29

It's been a long time since I've tried an alcohol free wine. I think I was probably pregnant and I was I think it was free fr EE and I was like, nope, not even. Not even worth it. Yeah, I was like,

Unknown: 24:43

I have dumped a lot of spirits too. I mean, for two years I was doing this just just playing around with it and I'd get something and I'm like that is awful. And it was 40 bucks and I don't feel the need to drink. And

Kristen Daukas: 24:54

I'm an adult and I'm an adult and I don't have to Yeah, it's something I'm trying to teach my girls it's like if If it serves you no purpose, it doesn't matter how much you've already spent the money, it's gone.

Unknown: 25:05

So that's, I mean, with the pop up pop up bottle shops, I have a very curated list that I have been building over the last three years. So people can, you know, and I've explained, I've dumped a lot of spirits out there, and my tastes isn't for everyone. But for the most part, people like a majority of what they're tasting, it might just be that they don't like the flavor of something specifically. And

Kristen Daukas: 25:27

for me, I truly do enjoy the taste, right? So if I could find a good so if I'm going to I'm not going to waste my time and my energy on an alcohol free wine. I'm just not like you said, they're not there yet. If I am, I'm gonna I'm looking for more of those craft cocktails. Because that's, it's the experience of it. Right? And, you know, I love my wine. That's, you know, and I love a good cocktail. But I'm not going to sit there and pound for old fashions. Yeah, I'm gonna have a, an old fashion, right. So, you know, if the if there is a true classic, you know, you know, alcohol free compare, you know, version of it. I'm totally down for trying that. 100%

Unknown: 26:12

I have a really great recipe and I'll share it with you. Okay, cool. Um,

Kristen Daukas: 26:15

speaking of recipes, how many have you come up with so far do you would you say, oh,

Unknown: 26:20

my gosh, a lot. I will. I will also say a lot of the Spirit companies have recipes on their websites. So I am not a bartender, I am a I'm a caterer, I do food. I have no experience in bartending whatsoever. Actually, you

Kristen Daukas: 26:34

are a bartender, which you're not as a mixer. You're not a mixologist. mixologist. Exactly. Which is one of the reasons why I can't go even if I do want to get like a second job just to get it on the house. I'm like, I'm not a mixologist. I was a bartender.

Unknown: 26:48

Right, and you'd need a good bartender but for, for me, for the most part, and it's what I did when I had my food catering for 14 years is I'd find a recipe and then I tweak it to the way that I like it. But yeah, that doesn't. I don't like that flavor. I'm going to add this flavor and play around with it. But almost all the spirits when you go to their websites, they have recipes, which excuse me, I love because people are like, What do I do with this and like just go to the website. They've got all these amazing recipes. I actually go into Pinterest and I collect all sorts of classic recipes. If they've got if I have the ingredients like I have an elderberry, excuse me, elderflower liqueur. So I can make all sorts of delicious things that have ordered like a Saint Germain. It's delicious. Absolutely delicious. So you can it when you finally find some liquorice and alcohol free spirits, spirit alternatives that you like, just start looking for recipes that have those ingredients in just traditional recipes. Have

Kristen Daukas: 27:41

you found your favorites yet? Are you really trying all sorts of different vendors?

Unknown: 27:48

I have a few favorites, but there's still so many out there. I mean, I can't. I'm a small company. I would love to order them all in. But it's just it's too much. I love Pathfinder that is one of our most popular ones, the Pathfinder, two ounces of Pathfinder, half of an ounce of lemon juice, three or four ounces of ginger beer super simple, crazy tasty. The Maximilian affair which has the Mezcal, the elderflower liqueur. It's got some orange liqueur in it really crazy, tasty. Amethyst, blueberry, ginger, there's a cocktail that they have on their website that's called Sweet Caroline and it's a yummy, yummy spirit actually don't have any amount right now. But that was an elderberry shrub which is from a company called sweets. If you can find that sweets, elderberry shrub there woman on company from down South Korea. Oh, so good. So two ounces of the amethyst, half of an ounce of lime juice half of an ounce of the elderberry shrub, mix that up top of the ginger bear, you would not know it's not alcohol free. It's a medicine that it is alcohol free.

Kristen Daukas: 28:50

Where do you see the alcohol free beverage industry heading and what innovations are you excited about?

Unknown: 28:58

Where do I see it heading? It's that is interesting. So the spirits are being now being sold, which is wonderful, but they're being sold in Target and Walmart and all of this I was

Kristen Daukas: 29:09

gonna ask where because like we're here in North Carolina, we're state supported, right? So you have to go to the liquor store, where it's like in you know, like Chicago and your a lot of your other big areas. You know, it's it's folded into your grocery store. But

Unknown: 29:23

alcohol free you it's just like buying tea or kombucha,

Kristen Daukas: 29:27

right? I'll have to look the next time I go to a target because I you know, they sell beer and wine at our target. So I would imagine I mean, so I'm gonna have to look next time I go. Okay, so finish. I'm sorry, I interrupted you. So

Unknown: 29:38

there are some I know, someone who's an Austin there's a Walmart or Target target that has just a crazy extensive array of alcohol free, which is wonderful because it's getting them out there into the community, right. It's also hurting the small local shops that were the ones that started started from scratch brought it to the community. And what they're seeing, unfortunately, is a lot of people coming in and tasting for free, and then going to Walmart and Target or wherever to buy the bottles. So I've seen a couple of businesses go OUT out of business. It's just because it's hard, the margins are super small. When I do my pop ups I do it out of because I love bringing it to the community, the margins are super small. So you've got to be able to have a community and that's one of the things with Vermont we have less than 650,000 people in the entire states. Right. So being the first is important because not to be the first that because they're really with so few people in the state in there's really only one large city, it can only it can only handle maybe one possibly two alcohol free bars right now, I think until the movement really starts taking over and people are totally set for it. But that's where I kind of see some some things going on within the alcohol free. You know, a lot of right now that our TDs are ready to drink or just blasting out of the water the CANS because they're super easy or you know, the younger generation will describe them hot water, which has a water but it has that hoppy beer hoppy essence to it is is like one of the leading things out there right now. Again, wine is starting to pick up because the flavors are getting better. And I find that the alcohol free alternatives rather than the substitutes, which sub substituting vodka and gin, the alternatives are actually doing better for me, because people aren't compartmentalizing them and saying it should taste like this. Right?

Kristen Daukas: 31:34

Right. But you're not going to do a shot of alcohol free bourbon.

Unknown: 31:39

They do. I've been seeing it in some bars. I'm like, I don't really get that. But you know, but it's the it's the ritual, right? It's the ritual without the alcohol so they can just do a shot and it's maybe

Kristen Daukas: 31:51

I should have used to kilos a better reference on doing shots. Because nothing good happens once shots of tequila start. Nothing. I've told all my guests. Absolutely nothing. What happens once tequila is involved? Nothing. I don't care what you can do.

Unknown: 32:08

I make a crazy tasty Blackberry, jalapeno Margarita, I make my own BlackBerry jalapenos, simple syrup, fresh leaves, lime juice, tequila, orange sec. So good. So everyone that I've served that too, has been like this is alcohol free. I'm like,

Kristen Daukas: 32:24

so So we're closing in on the end, believe it or not, and you didn't think like I didn't think we could get through all those questions. But I've got one more than I think it's I think it's appropriate to end with considering how we started. What advice would you give to someone who wants to be more mindful about their alcohol consumption?

Unknown: 32:43

That's an excellent question. And it really is different for absolutely every person, right. So I have found someone who could be a raging alcoholic can just be like I'm quitting. And they can pick up an alcohol free beer and be fine. I've seen people who, you know, we're having a drink or an issue with alcohol, and they just stay away from it because everything is a trigger. So for the person that wants to be more mindful, I would say talk to someone else about it. So that accountability partner kind of so you can check in be like, You know what, we're not drinking this week eight and have that I think accountability is key. If that works for you, and you have that agreement that it's non judgmental, it's just we will often let ourselves down, but we won't let other people down. So having that little bit of accountability really works. have something in mind that you want to drink. So if you are going somewhere, I don't have alcohol free, I have these cans of wine, and I sell a lot of them at the bottle shop because I'm like, if you're going somewhere, you can just pop one in your bag, and you can just pull it out.

Kristen Daukas: 33:42

That's an idea. That's a great tip.

Unknown: 33:45

It is easy, right? So you want to make it easy, you want to make the choice simple, you want to think ahead and say, I'm not drinking tonight, if they don't have an alcohol free cocktail, I'm going to have x, right. So just be clear on how you want to feel. I'm going to go into my coaching here, that time and consistency piece, we value the present more than we value the future. So we value the present, the reward is in the moment we value the present and that we get to be a part of everything and we're feeling really good. Ah, screw it, I'll do it tomorrow, right? And be a part of everything that's going on. But the cost is in the future. When you wake up the next morning, you're like shit, I can't believe I just did that again. Right? So when we can switch that around and have sort of the cost and the moment of okay, I need to plan ahead. It might be uncomfortable. But if someone is asking me, I don't need to answer right. So you've got to plan in mind who you need to be in order to stand in your ground, stand in your authenticity and be unapologetic in your choices. And when you do that, it is your responsibility to set those boundaries to be clear, direct and respectful. It is not your responsibility, how it lands for the other person. So if you just say I'm not drinking and they ask why you can just say Not drinking and then you zip it, you don't get into a conversation with them. I personally would just look them straight in the eye and just stand there, right? I want the discomfort if you're if you have the tenacity, to, why don't you drink and what's wrong with you, I get to stand there and my confidence, and everything that's going on is about them. It's not about you. And that's what we get hooked by is, you know, everybody's looking at me. No, they're actually, you know, it's the other person. It's making them uncomfortable.

Kristen Daukas: 35:29

It's and that's okay. That's okay. That's

Unknown: 35:31

what happens is we often we, especially as women tend to we don't want the other oh my gosh, the other person is uncomfortable, you know. So then you enjoy, engage in the conversation, leave it, let it land on the floor. And that is a beautiful lesson for the other person. And or

Kristen Daukas: 35:48

I'm hoping that, like, we talked earlier, that we're starting to get away from that a little bit as far as being you know, people are like, okay, cool, whatever. But it's like, why is it so important to you know, why, why is my not drinking so important to you, making

Unknown: 36:03

you so long, right? You know why? Because it highlights more than likely, they know that they are in that gray area, or they're drinking too much. And it makes them uncomfortable, so that when we can get the people around us doing something that we know is not healthy. I mean, it's toxic, it is toxic. I don't, I don't go ranting and raving and preaching. I still drink myself, I don't drink a lot, but I still drink, right. So I'm not like it's toxic. It's bad. But you know, it's mindful drinking. So if you've been drinking a 12 pack a night and you cut it back to six a night, that is mindful drinking, and then you can cut it back to three, and then you can cut it back to one, right or maybe you stay at three. And that's where you want to stay. When you can release the judgment, the pressure, the guilt, the shame, it allows you to step into your authentic self and be who you want to be unapologetically. Right? And if tubers and AI is good for you. Good, then do it. Right. But that judgment and that shame on yourself is only going to make you feel like shit and go back and go back into drinking. Yeah, so do it in a way that supports you to be sustainable in it. Right?

Kristen Daukas: 37:11

It's like when somebody needs to go on a diet and they go, I'm not eating anything but chicken and rice. I'm like, No, don't do that you're gonna fail, you're gonna fail.

Unknown: 37:23

That's why I still drink. I haven't had a drink for a month. But if I want to drink, I have learned to pause, you know, it's five o'clock, I'm really late because it's that transition or whatever it is. And like, you know, six o'clock rolls around, I still want it, I'll have it right.

Kristen Daukas: 37:37

And it's it's scientifically proven that your body it completely changes your body chemistry. And your body knows that at five o'clock, it's time let's go. And that's why you something that's it's just, it's crazy how

Unknown: 37:52

it is more. Yeah, more habit than anything that you believe. Yeah. So

Kristen Daukas: 37:55

this has been such a great conversation. I really, really appreciate it. And I am going to put everything in the shownotes on how people can find you. And once I get all of the stuff, I will send you graphics to share it and share with everyone so much good information. And such a you know great positive spin on it not really even a spin. It's just there are going to be a lot of people that learn a lot from this particular episode. So I really appreciate you spending time with me. And until next time, I will talk to you guys later. As the saying goes, you don't have to go home but you can stay here and that's a wrap for this week's episode. A big thanks to my guests for sharing their story and to you for listening. Don't forget to share the show with your friends and spread the words. And if you'd like to be a guest on the show, the link is in the show notes till next time cheers