Adventures in Gen Z Adulting: Parental Guidance Required

Kristen Daukas and guest Dorien Morin-van Dam, get real about their experiences as parents of young adults transitioning out of the nest. The conversation pivots to the challenges Gen X parents and their Gen Z children face, ranging from economic pressures, the boomeranging trend of adult children returning home, and the significant impact of social media. They discuss the evolving expectations on wedding costs, college education's value, and the importance of trade careers. Highlighting their parenting strategies, they emphasize setting expectations on financial independence, teaching kids about fiscal responsibility, and encouraging them to engage in life experiences over material possessions. The dialogue also touches on the mental health concerns prevalent among Gen Z, attributing factors, and the need for parents to model desired behaviors and engage in meaningful conversations with their children. The episode closes with a call for parents to lead by example, showcasing the belief in instilling practical life skills and values from a young age.

About Dorien:

Dorien Morin-van Dam is a leading expert in organic social media and content marketing with over 13 years of experience. As a Certified Social Media Manager and Agile Marketer, she is well-versed in the latest techniques and best practices for driving engagement and results through organic social media. Dorien is an international speaker, and hosts her weekly livestream show and podcast, "Strategy Talks." on Facebook, LinkedIn and YouTube. You’ll recognize her on stage and online by her always-present orange glasses, a nod to her Dutch heritage.

Connect with Dorien

https://www.linkedin.com/in/moreinmedia/

https://www.moreinmedia.com/

https://www.youtube.com/@DorienMorinVanDam/podcasts

Transcript

Kristen Daukas: 0:04

Welcome to Conversations on the rocks. The podcast where the drink is strong and the stories are stronger. I'm your host, Kristen Daukas. And this isn't your average chat fest. Here real people spill the tea alongside their favorite drinks from the hilarious to the heart wrenching each episode a wildcard. You'll laugh, you may cry, but you'll definitely learn something new. So grab whatever whet your whistle and buckle up it's time to dive into the raw, the real and the ridiculously human. Let's get this chat party started. Hey, everybody, it's Kristen Daukas And we're back with another episode of conversations on the rocks. And today I'm with Dorian Morin Van Damme one of my very old not she's not old, but we've been friends for a really long time. And during you just introduce yourself a little bit and then we're gonna dive into this topic because we got a lot to go over and a 30 minute segment. So Have at it, sir. Absolutely.

Dorien: 1:04

I was born and raised in the Netherlands emigrated at age 18 by myself, married young, married and American I've emigrated from the Netherlands and raise four children with stay at home mom and at age 40 started my business. That's where I met Kristin about 13 years ago, 1412 13 years ago. And I am a runner, I have about two dogs. My children are now aged 27 to 19. So, you know they're young adults, not not you know, teenagers anymore that that phase lasted forever. And I like to Yeah, I know. So I've morphed from a social media manager into a social media strategist and consultant so that's what I do run my own business and work full time and loving it. So

Kristen Daukas: 1:56

you and I both have young adult children and all but one of yours and all of mine have been have left the nest we are I am an empty nester and you are 75% of an empty nester 55th. T. Did we have another boomerang.

Dorien: 2:17

I've had two boomerangs already now I have two at home, when a young adult is at home, because of a disability, and then one is at home. He's a teenager. He's a 19 year old, but he goes to college. He's a commuter, right? So he basically lives there, but he just sleeps here.

Kristen Daukas: 2:38

And that is Generation Z for those who may not be in tune with all the generations and obviously joining an AI our Gen X. And it's interesting and a very challenging and so once we want to kind of dive into the challenges not just that we face, but that they are facing, particularly the differences because you married young, right? I married a little older than you but I was out on my own by the time I was 20. And it I came from that generation of once you left the house, you're gone. There was no boomerang and going on with the boomer generation. And it was tough. But it is I cannot say that it's nearly as tough for me, or it was as tough for me as it is for our kids. And whether it's the economics piece of I just did read something not too long ago. I don't know if you saw the same study that something crazy high like 65% of parents are supporting in some capacity, their adult children up to an over the age of 30. Whether that looks like helping them out with rent, helping them out with other bills, helping them out with food, something. What has been your experience with the two that are even you know, what has been your experience with your kids after they have left?

Dorien: 4:04

Yeah, so two of them boom ranked back one after college when we moved from South Carolina to Vermont. So he finished college right at the time that we moved. So he decided that he was going to check out Vermont and live with us for seven months. He moved back right before COVID hit and then the other one was in college and boomerang during college because she was kicked out of the dorm and had to come live with us for a year before she moved back to college and then and eventually got married. She got married young. But yeah, they they experiences that we've told them if you need support, we see how hard it is. So they know to ask for the things that they need. We carried our oldest is 27 we carried him on our health insurance so he we couldn't anymore till he was 26 and one of something that I want to touch on right now that I think you were gonna bring up anyway is that you know He got a college education. But right now he's working two labor intensive jobs. He's not really working in what he studied. He's degree in biology and chemistry. And he doesn't want to work inside, decided that he wants to work outside, he works on the beach works at a horse farm, and loving the work that he does. But you know, that doesn't necessarily give you a lot of stability and their seasonal jobs, both of them, but he's happy. And the advice that we gave him, you know, 10 years ago, and that we were expected to give his go to college. And he's said to us, if I were to do it again, I wouldn't go to college. But then that's also where all his friends have come from. That's where he became an adult, he moved out at 18. He told us afterwards, it was so funny, we drove him to college, and he didn't go into the dorm, he went to College of Charleston, where there's a shortage of dorm rooms anyway, so they allow freshmen to live off campus, even as freshmen. And so he thought we were gonna give him a lot of cash, even though we said you're on your own. We don't, we won't pay for college, you have to figure it out. You saved during high school, you got scholarships, you got to work in college, and we can't help you. And he really thought that we were going to drop him off and give him a couple $1,000. And we didn't, and so he had to figure it out. I

Kristen Daukas: 6:29

think a lot of that, too. And it's I've got a funny story for you. That just happened to me last night talking to because again, you and I are so similar in our personalities, especially when it comes to parenting, and it others our other parent peers, literally have made our job very difficult, in the sense of it makes us tease us up to be kind of the bad guy, right? And such in last night, I got a text from my oldest and she said, have you guys been saving for our weddings? And I was like, no, no, we haven't. And she's like, well, who's gonna pay for my wedding? And I'm like, I'm gonna say that's probably you. I said, my parents didn't pay for my they, you know, those are the two things too. They didn't pay for my college. They didn't I didn't go to college. Right? I you know, I don't have a degree. And they didn't pay for it. They paid for a little bit of my wedding. Right. But that expectation from Gen Z is that we're just throwing out money right and left. And I'm like, I don't know it sometimes with her especially. I look at her and I go have you not lived with us for 26 years? Like at which point of you're growing up? Did you ever see us with you know wads of cash that we were just thrown throwing to you guys like we can help you when we can. It's kind of going back to how expensive it is. And you know, with her, I made the commitment to her just to help her get in a little bit better of an area in Washington DC. I said I will commit to giving you $200 a month. And it's sad. It's not a ton. But you know, it's something that you can count on. And she's like, I don't want your money as it but if I put it in my budget, then I know right? And so that helped her I mean, even just 200 bucks a month can help get them to a better place. Right. But yeah, I was like, No, we have not saved for your wedding. We are not paying for your wedding. I said I would say so let's go ahead and hopefully you can set your expectations now, if and when you decide to finally get married. But you know, looking and I remember when she turned it was something about her class. It was that her class of 2017 all of the kids in that class were over indulged, like when they turned 16 There were joined there were more brand new than I'm not talking just cars. I'm talking like beamers Porsches, Jeep Wranglers, I mean, you name it, it was sitting in that parking lot in the with the keys in the hands of 16 year old kids.

Dorien: 8:59

Do you do you think it's because we both lived in the south at that my son graduated 2017 as well. And you know, we love the South Carolina know you're in North Carolina. I don't know if it was because of where we lived. I do think there's a different lifestyle there and expectations. And then the that's a funny story about Your daughter asking or when our daughter got married, she had a wedding, just the two of them, plus the two sets of parents. But our kids know our story. My husband and I got married at the bus stop. So we paid a justice of the peace $175 to show up. We rented two limousines and we drove around with our friends. We weren't old enough to drink so we couldn't go to a bar or anything. We were both under 21 When we got married, and we didn't go on a honeymoon. I think my husband sister got us a night at a hotel. And that's all we spent and then say about 10 years later we were invited to be in a wedding. We spent more on somebody else's wedding being The bridesmaid and the best man then we did on our own wedding. And so our kids have known that story. And they know, it's not about the wedding, right? It's about the marriage. And I think that, you know, that philosophy has, you know, trickled through to everything that us as parents that we've tried to teach our children, you know, those things fade when my son went to college, and that same truck, When we drive in him, when he's thinking, we're going to hand hand him a bunch of cash. I also asked him, I said, you're now an adult, you're going out on your own, what are your best memories of childhood. And he said, our four month trip to Brazil, or four months living in the Netherlands, because they went to school with their cousins, driving up to Westfield, Massachusetts, and seeing snow, it was all about experiences, he didn't rear end birthday parties, we always had incredible birthday party experiences, nothing, that I hired somebody for $1,000 to come in and entertain the kids. We did, you know, survivor games and, you know, Olympics on the beach. And he said it was the experiences that he remembered not the things that he got. So if you're listening, as a parent, that's what your kids will remember, it's about how it made them feel.

Kristen Daukas: 11:15

And that is, and that's something I've tried to pass on to my kids too, as far as, you know, to pull away from the monetary piece of it or actually to, especially when it comes to travel. And for some reason, and I don't know why keep throwing my oldest, it's not a throwing her under the bus. But it seems like I have more examples there. But for her 21st birthday, she wanted to go to California with her friends. But she was worried about how much it was because California is not cheap, right? And she was worried about spending the money. I said, you can always make more money, you can always replace your money, you can't replace the experience. Right? So I've always tried to be very experienced, driven with them. And you know, same thing, you know, as far as did I did each of them have a brand new car. Absolutely not. But we did our damnedest to, you know, have really great experiences with them, whether it was a cruise or whether you know, big things like that. That's I would just rather spend my money on something. And I have been trying for the past five years to get rid of Christmas. And I think this year is going to be the year because we're taking that cruise degrees. And it's I'm like, I'd rather take whatever my unlike tell me what you got last year. Tell me what you got for Christmas, like not you. But to them. Tell me tell me all the things you they can't tell you, right? However, if you do a trip, they'll be like, oh, yeah, remember that time we did blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. How did you work with your kids? To be good financial stewards to make them fiscally? How did you train them fiscally?

Dorien: 12:43

Okay, so my oldest was born in 1996. So it was he's right on the cusp of millennial Gen Z, I think I think that's right on that edge. So when he went all my kids turned 13, I got him a bank account under my bank account. So they got a debit card. And so that was one of the things I did. So they could see how much all their money had to go through it. If they made money from babysitting or whatever had to go in there first, and then you can use it. So I didn't want them to use cash. I want them to see it on there. So it was registered. And then so that was one of the things I did with each one of them. The other thing I did is I paid my children for babysitting, especially my oldest two for babysitting the younger ones, I was able to start a job and start a business because they were able to babysit and help me with that. But I also made them pay for things like their phone. So my son would babysit his younger siblings, I would give him $5 an hour. So maybe I was on the job for four hours. I was merchandising. And I would literally pay him every day. Right? It's payday. Every day is payday, you just did this, here's your money.

Kristen Daukas: 13:49

I'll talk I talked about talking about setting a standard that's unrealistic in the real world.

Dorien: 13:54

Right. But as a 13 year old, leaving him alone making lunch for his siblings, it was a so then I would give him the cash. And he would go to his room. And he knew he had to put it like through the through the through the bank. But he would be sitting in his room. And sometimes he'd say, Okay, I'm gonna spend this on my phone, like on minutes on my phone, or sometimes he'd be like, Oh, I think I'm gonna go to the mall with my friends and buy a new hat or, you know, he would think about what he would spend his money on. And so sometimes he would hand me the money back and said, I really don't feel like putting it through the bank. Can I just use it for game state game, you know, play on the computer, but it was that, you know, I get money, I can spend money kind of thing. And then so he was about 13 or 14 when he got his first phone and that was you know, the there was the texting was, you know, the AABB you know, kind of texting thing. Our second son didn't have a phone till he was 16 he even though he got a job at 16 I think that's when he got his phone or daughter. I'm thinking she was 15 or so. Oh, my youngest one. Now he's eight years younger than the oldest. So that's really the next generation. All his friends had phones in fifth grade. So here he is, and in seventh grade, and he didn't have a phone. So I said, you have to have a job because here's the thing, parents, you can hand your child a phone, but you're stuck paying the bill. So even if they get a phone for Christmas, you have a recurring bill. That's the part that explain to my kids, I can buy a phone for Christmas, how are you going to pay for the bill and they look at me and like there's a $30 at that point Bill recurring every month. So I told them, You have to have a job in order to pay that bill. I can give you the phone all you want, but there's gonna be nothing that you can do with it unless you can pay the bill. So he was 13 or going on 13. He really wanted to foam. And you know who's gonna hire a 13 year old? Well, he's a soccer player. So he got certified. They were short on soccer refs, he got certified at age 12. They, they they're like, Okay, you're almost 13 You can do that. And he started reffing, little kid league games, soccer games, you get $20 A game. He was 13 years old. He did tournaments, sometimes tournaments, he would do like six games a day in the hazzan in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. But he would make bank and so he and then he would be like, can I spend it? I'm like, your bill is coming up $30 a month, you got to have the money, otherwise, your phone's not gonna work. So let's put some of the money towards your phone bill for the next three months and then see what you have left, right. But yeah, he that's how they learned. But he was the youngest. He was 13. And he really wanted that phone. And he was, I think the last one in the carpool that got his phone, but he ended up paying for it.

Kristen Daukas: 16:32

I know. Also, a lot of parents in our generation, it was a non negotiable about going to college. And in this house, it was I didn't force the issue. Because you and I both are entrepreneurs. And that's something I've tried to get all of my girls to do is to find something. So find something that can be a side hustle for you, right? And it could turn into something that's more permanent. But I was not. I remember when one of Kinsey's friends made the declaration that he was going to H back school. Right. And I was like, that's amazing. That's incredible. You know, because you and I both worked with a certain particular client that, you know, started with a truck with a van and is a multimillionaire now. Right. And I don't think he ever went to college. And it's not that I'm against college, but the cost of college at this point, it just doesn't make sense. I just saw yesterday or the day before where Campbell University, I believe, is in order to go there. Their tuition, room board, books in and out the door one year $100,000. I

Dorien: 17:47

saw something that that's the that's, that's now it's now past. Yeah,

Kristen Daukas: 17:52

so raise that is insane. And, you know, you and I sit in enough Facebook job, you know, marketing groups, were the people that are in marketing that are saying like, Oh, you know, I mean, they're going on hundreds of interviews. So the job market is not supporting it. It just in our industry alone, it is definitely not the salary, that it's it the sound, as we all know, we are all living it. salaries have not kept pace with the cost of living. And I it is hard for me to justify telling someone go ahead and get yourself $250,000 in debt, for a degree and good luck, getting a salary, maybe around 50 grand, these kids are going to absolutely be drowning in debt, the rest of their lives, we are setting these kids up for failure, and a very bad financial demise by insisting that they all go to college. And instead we need to be applauding the these kids that want to go to trade school. You know what's great about trade school, you know, what's great about being a plumber, or an H back or an electrician. When your shift is done, you're done. You go home, you have a nice burger and fries with your family or whatever it is that you do when you get off you go for a run whatever you're done. The stress on those jobs is just nothing compared to the stress of the court. It's

Dorien: 19:25

so so so let me say that it I also don't have a college degree. Like you didn't go to college. Remember I got married young, my husband was still in college and he was getting an undergrad degree. And then by the time we started having kids, he got his master's so supported him through two degrees. And so the expectation on his end was yes, you go to college, but we're not paying for it. Which is kind of not the best way to do that. Now we were lucky in South Carolina is one of maybe two three states. We where they give scholarships, gate state scholarships based on merit, not on income, which was very fortunate for my oldest children, they all got the highest level scholarship from the state, they qualify because they were in the top 6% or 5% of their class in the high school that they were in. So my daughter got additional scholarships. So she basically had a free ride, including cost of living. My son got a free ride for the school part and the books part, but he had to pay his own cost of living. That's why I had to work and pay his own rent and everything. So that was lucky. My youngest now we're in Vermont. That's a whole different ballgame. We are supporting him by allowing him to live at home for four years, right. So he doesn't have the cost of living to pay for because the other kids had left by then. But he has to pay for his own college. So it's about five 6000 This semester, and he has to come up with that money. Now he saved money. He took a little loan, you know, he pays for there's not a whole lot of books at these, what he's studying. So there's a lot of online stuff. He we did have to purchase a new car because he's a commuter. And his car broke down. So we purchased a car that's in our name, obviously our car, but he hasn't put his own gas in it. And so he had a chance to potentially be an RA and live on campus. But he's like, Yeah, but then I have to buy the food package. And that's another 2000 a semester. And he's like, if I live at home, yeah, I have a commute. But you know, all that is free. So he's doing the math on all of that. And he found a great food hack. All of his friends. It's a very small college, all of his friends have the, what do you call the food package? What do you call that meal plan, the dorm meal plan, meal plan, golf food package, it's the same thing, meal plan, they all have a meal plan and they all get I think 20 or 30 guest passes. So he is the beneficiary of every single one of their guests passes. So because otherwise he would have to pay himself so he's being frugal with his money because it's his money if it was my money, and I would be buying exactly the plan. That's the difference. Right? So yeah, he does live at home. I do his laundry. But wait, wait, does his own cooking, do his laundry, do his laundry, I do his laundry? Yep, he's not he has a 45 minute commute each way.

Kristen Daukas: 22:22

You're doing it to make his life easier.

Dorien: 22:24

I'm doing it to make his life easier. He does his own cooking because I'm vegan and he eats steak. So he does his own cooking. He does his own bedding. Like what I say is I do his laundry, but he has to strip his own bed and he has to make his own bed I put in a laundry machine. So I'm helping him that way.

Unknown: 22:43

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Kristen Daukas: 23:13

Again, I'm gonna throw out the disclaimer, I am not mom of the year. I am not the world's greatest parent in the world. My entire objective with my parenting career was to produce functioning young adults into the world right. However, something I don't know if you see it with your kids friends, but something that I saw with the girls friends is that these kids have no street smarts. They have very little common sense. And listening to you talk about your son with his you know, going through the rationalization of you know if I do this than that, and this than that, that's making him very street smart. That's That's common sense. And so many the you know, there's I love Gen Z and there's so many great things about them that there are certain things about them that make me flippin crazy. And the fact that the lack of street smarts and common sense is one of them. And the lack of sense of urgency is another one. Hmm, maybe it's just because I'm like, you know, little Tasmanian devil and I'm, you know, just like, Go Go, go, go go go all the time. But like the like, sometimes the sense of the lack of sense of urgency makes me crazy. But by making our kids do things like their own laundry, their own cooking, I might have bought the car, but you have to pay extra like I think for my girls, I said you have to pay me 150 bucks a month. Right? And that was partially for the car, the maintenance and the insurance, right? I'm like, I can't offset this entire thing. I'm not going to offset this. Because when you get out there into the world and you are own do you buy your own car, you're going to have these hard costs as well. You may as well get used to understanding that if I have a car I'm going to have this this and this. If I have a phone I'm going to have this this and this. If I have a credit card I'm going to have have this, this and this. And so in some of their friends, clueless 100% Clueless.

Dorien: 25:08

Yeah, I saw that a lot. I drove a lot of carpool. And you know, if you have young children, you're listening to conversations on the rocks, drive carpool, you get all the secrets you get all the time they spill all the tea. But yeah, I was in the carpool with a 13 year old too. That was the conversation. She got a phone for her birthday. And she was all excited. And I say, so you got the phone for your birthday. And she told us it was it this was you know, long time ago, but it was a lot of money. And, you know, I'm like, who's gonna pay for the phone? She goes, Well, I got it. I'm like, No, there's gonna be a bill who's gonna pay for it. And she just didn't understand and you're not doing you can service if you don't explain these things, that there's a bill that goes with that. And there's a bill for insurance insurance goes up, I can say that my youngest son had his driver's license for four days and got his first ticket, his first speeding ticket, this person only speeding ticket, but you know, the insurance was gonna go up, and we made him pay the difference. Because we had said again, you need your car for school. He was, you know, driving 45 minutes to the high school at that point. Because we're live pretty remote. So college is 45 minutes, but high school was also 45 minutes. And he said, if you get another ticket and you can't drive, you're taking the bus right? Going back on the bus.

Kristen Daukas: 26:22

Can I can I can say something. Yeah, you're nice because the first speeding ticket that the oldest got, I wasn't taking the insurance said I told her said you got to pay$300 for an attorney to get it taken care of. Oh,

Dorien: 26:33

no, he ended up paying the difference of the insurance of the insurance. So he had to pay the difference. Yeah, it was like, I don't know. We weren't being nice. No, no, we weren't being nice. He had to pay that. So I think that our kids have realized pretty early on we're you know, that's how we do it. But when we see our kids struggle, Lea say say it over and over. If you need something you need to open your mouth. When I go visit my children. The weekends on me, I fly over to to live in South Carolina. I take them to dinner, I buy them groceries, I went for Christmas, my daughter didn't have a Christmas tree. I went two weeks before Christmas. I'm like, let's go to Home Depot, we got a Christmas tree because it was a first house. We got everything got the lights, like if I see something and I'm there. I'm buying it. I can. Right. And that's a good it

Kristen Daukas: 27:21

is. And those are soft costs. I call it the I call those are soft costs. And here's a funny question. So when you take your kids grocery shopping, when you go visit them, see my kids are smart. They are good shoppers like I taught my kids early on to go shopping for clothes at places like plato's closet, which is confinement, if we do the same thing, yes, do same thing. And they they know that store brand is the same as blah, blah, blah, but I swear to you, every time I take them shopping, all of a sudden, there's no such thing as generic. And I'm like, do you buy them? Do you? Do you buy major brands when on your money? Or I don't say anything. I just think it's funny. It's always an observation. We have probably about 710 minutes left on this, I want to touch on something else about this generation. And I particularly noticed it with my middle. And so the 2019 class of 2019 is the emotional and mental issues. There are split, like I said, I mean, the oldest she had it and the youngest. They had it but for some reason again, it seemed like that middle that middle class at 2019. All of these kids had anxiety, they had depression, they had some kind of neurological something. What's your experience with that?

Dorien: 28:39

100%? Same, I've got one class of 2018. And same? Yeah.

Kristen Daukas: 28:46

Do you think oh, I the social media? Do you think it's the the peer pressure? Do you think what it is? Or is it because they didn't put that we had it? But it wasn't necessarily obviously, you know, back in the 60s and 70s You didn't talk about things like that. That's one of the things that I do love about this generation too, is they will talk to you. They have they have no shame in talking about things of that nature. They're very fluid.

Dorien: 29:11

I think they're the first they're not the generation that grew up with it. They weren't two years old and holding iPads right so they were still there's a generation that still remembers doing hopscotch outside my children do did do that. They you know, the first computer they had or play computers, probably they were like eight nine, you know, we had a Playstation and you know, then we had, you know, I don't even know all the systems but they really didn't get a phone to laters on social media just came into play after that. I also told them you have to be 13 Anyway, but I think they didn't know how to deal with it. We as parents, we didn't grow up with it. So the parents of that generation weren't educated on social media on like, kids go to school to get sex ed you're supposed to do this at home parents but you know a lot of kids learn Learn everything from school again, in the carpool, you'll learn all kinds of stuff about that, that they had sex ed and what they learned and what the boys learned versus the girls and what the boys didn't listen to, versus the girls, which is also very interesting. But there was no, there's been no social media education, not for their parents, the parents didn't know how to guide the children. And then which

Kristen Daukas: 30:21

I did that for years. Coaching parents

Dorien: 30:24

is that you taught that Yeah, and that exact reason, right. And so, I mean, one of the things we ran into was, my daughter didn't want to be in pictures as well, or selfconscious. And we lived in Myrtle Beach. So there was a lot of pictures of half naked girls because you're in your bathing suit, and she would go to a party, and she would say, I don't want to be in the picture. And they're like, Oh, it's okay. We won't post that. She wouldn't even leave the premises, and I would be on Instagram. And I would ask her, do you want me to ask, you know, ask your friend to take it down. friend wouldn't take it down. If I go to the parent. Parents like it's her phone, right? It's her thing. And we don't do that anymore. I think now we're educated to say, you know, you need to have consent. People know about consent about, you know, you don't post post pictures that you don't have permission. But that was just it was also new. Yeah, we didn't know my, my son in fifth grade, was that first generation of elementary school, they all got iPads. It was like the end, they go to school, like middle of August. And I walk into the library at the end of the day. And the librarian, if I could see like, her hair was standing up. And she was like, first day school. And she's like, Oh, I said, what happened? She goes, the fifth graders figured out that there's a camera on the iPad, oh, my God. And they didn't count for it. Because they didn't know what kids would do. What do kids do in fifth grade with cameras on the iPad, right? can only imagine what happened that first day. It was horrible. It's just so like, she's putting tape over all of the cameras. And then they had to make up a policy. So I think it's that generation of parents and teachers who didn't know how to guide these kids. And they made up the rules after all the things went, right. Yeah, I really think that's what happened. Everything went wrong was react got anxiety, they were it was reactive. That's a good

Kristen Daukas: 32:13

way to say elective, right. But it could not have been proactive because they didn't know what they were dealing with. Right. And I remember when I would do these courses for parents and I would go they would bring me into the schools. Right? And how many, especially again, 2017 oldest kid, how many of their parents, the parents, other parents were like, Oh, my kids would never do that. I'm like, yeah, they are because I see them. I see their fenced. Yes, I know, don't don't tell me your kids aren't, I'm not gonna rat your kid out. But yeah, they are there. And you know, so many parents would just bear in adults, let's just say adults were burying their heads in the ground over the social media piece of it. And that's when the damage happened. Yeah,

Dorien: 32:58

I agree. I think that's really the that's really the gist of it. And then the younger generation, I think, they, by that time, I was more fluent in social media, obviously. And I knew where to set the boundaries. And I knew to say this is acceptable. This is not acceptable. But the interesting part is, I don't know how your kids are, but none of my four kids want to be on it. They, they consume it, but they will not post not one, I think

Kristen Daukas: 33:30

that's very common in kind of what we talked about the dark social, not the dark web, dark social, is they want to share things, but they share it with a very small group, they show it with the shirt with their friends, they're not posting, they're not posting the way our generation does, and the way that boomers are, because now those which is probably the reason why Snapchat was so popular and is so popular with them is still Yeah, is because they share amongst their little circle, they probably have, you know, 50 you know, side chats going on with all of their different groups of friends. And, you know, I have found that that's kind of what I do now more so with my friends. You know, I don't post nearly as much as I used to, I just, I think you and I both know wise because we live breathe, live and breathe it so by the time we're like now I'll scroll through it, I'll consume it in little bits but beyond that, not much. So we're gonna get ready to wrap up what kind of let's let's dole out a little bit of advice here. Let's say that we've got some millennial parents whose kids are you know, because the a lot of these lessons you really need to be doing from the beginning and again, we're not parenting experts. We're just parents that have you know, gone through the wringer. You know, these hard skills that they are not learning really need to be taught like you just you're not doing your kids any favor, and it's really hard to retro actively do it. I thought I had done a really good job with my kids as far as personal finance. You know, last month I did It is I call it the winter mom tour. And I literally took number two and number one, physical financial journals, here is your budget planner. Because they are both all over the place. I'm like, if you don't get this in check, now, you are going to be suffering big time. And life is too expensive for you to be, you know, winging it, flying by the seat of your pants when it comes to money. I was like, because you make good money, but you don't make enough money to live right now. And you know, my oldest has went and got a second job, it finally sunk into her that she wants to have the kind of life that she wants to have. And that when I say that I'm talking about just going out with her friends, because she lives in DC. It's one of the most expensive cities in the United States. She had to get a second job.

Dorien: 35:45

Yeah, yeah, my son has two jobs, my oldest son, any advice, I would say talk to your kids have conversations. We, as a parent, I grew up in the Netherlands where everything is very. I'm not gonna say rigid, but everything is on time, we are the country, if you say you're gonna show up at five, you call somebody if it's 501. And you're late. Okay, you're late 501. So everything is scheduled. I guess that's a good way to say it, including what happens in school how you learn, like every single kid and gardener in the Netherlands learns how to tie their shoes, you can't graduate kindergarten until you've done that. That's just part of what you do. In fifth grade, or sixth grade, sixth grade. They do that before you go to middle school, everybody writes their bikes, you have to go through traffic, not traffic court, but like traffic lessons. And you go in a whole class, you all wear this little vest and you go into traffic and you learn how to bike from your little neighborhood into the big city, because you'll be expected to do that on your own. But everybody learns at the same time. And that's kind of on top of that, you know, everybody's kind of on the same schedule, all daycares and and islands close at six o'clock. Okay, they all close, so nobody works late. Because you can't get your kid from daycare. Most people work 32 hours or less, especially if their parents, that's also considered a full time job. So most parents are off on Wednesdays because Wednesday is a half day school in all of the Netherlands. So because everything is so scheduled, everybody eats dinner between 530 and six, and I stuck with that I would have Tupperware parties remember this. And I would schedule mine at seven o'clock at night. And I would have the same for yours. I have the same Tupperware Lady and the first couple of times she would come she's like, I thought you had kids like yeah, for their sleep, she would walk in at quarter to seven. Oh my god, she'd be looking at me like what I said, we eat dinner at 536 o'clock is bath by 630. You're in your pajamas and or reading books. By 10 of seven, the doors are closed. Now whether you go to sleep or not most of them do go to sleep. Of course they

rapid five or 5: 37:51

30am. And they didn't nap. But I would have my evening to myself. And so that schedule really worked well for me the host of sticking to a schedule, having dinner together every night and talking about your day. If that's not possible, have breakfast every morning or you know, have tea after they come come from school. But those rituals are really important.

Kristen Daukas: 38:15

And here's a big one too. For younger parents. Car time is valuable conversation time. Because you're staring you're you're sitting next to each other You're sitting staring probably straight out of a dashboard in some of the most awkward and uncomfortable conversations happen in the car because you're not having that direct eye to eye contact. So take advantage of car time to

Dorien: 38:38

Yeah, what Yeah, whether it's a carpool or just driving your kids to soccer or whatever, you know, after school activity, really, really important. And take the trips. I mean, I flew all over the world with our four kids, sometimes by myself sometimes with my husband went to Europe, you know, three planes to get there. Kids are resilient. They can do it. Stay calm, you can do it and the experience that they had traveling and seeing new things. It's nothing like it. Feed your children, every food imaginable. I grew up in a country where every single day we got potatoes, one meatball, a big meatball and some vegetables that was dinner every single night. I didn't like anything. I moved to this country. I couldn't even eat pizza. I never had pizza didn't like spaghetti had never had any other cultural food. And I didn't want my kids to be that way and my husband eats anything. So we'd be at a Thai restaurant and he goes who wants to eat octopus and everybody says yes. So I have learned to keep my face straight and look the other way and you know not show what I'm thinking that I'm not eating that. So our children eat anything teaching young to eat all the different foods and kids do what you do. If you want your kid to be a reader. You have to hold a book in your hand every once in a while that's very want them to be do sports. You have to be active. I would have my kids on the bus Like, I would push a jogging stroller and I take four kids with me on a run, they all loved running, they all played sports, they all were active, they're gonna do what you do. So you can say all you want go play outside. But if you never go outside with them, you kids are not gonna play outside. So not saying you play outside all the time. But go sit outside with a book, right? Just be outside with them. So they know this is a time to be outside. I learned that very early on, I was a nanny for a lot of years and teaching a child to play. You can model some of the play that you want. And then I would say the best trick in the book is I gotta go to the bathroom. I'll be right back. And then they will continue to play and then they look for me, I'd come back and I'm like, Oh, this is great. We played for five minutes ago, oh, I'm gonna peel the potatoes. Come right back, you know. And so I would leave them longer and longer to with their play, but you have to model the behavior that you want them to have. So if you have kids who don't play, it's because you didn't model is if you kid so do sports is because you didn't show it. If you have kids who don't read, it's because you're not reading right? Pick up a book, take them to the library. I mean, those are just simple things. But think about what you're doing. Your kids are going to be doing the same thing if you're on your phone all day. So are they you know what they're doing? Yeah, I think that's the best advice. And it

Kristen Daukas: 41:13

goes both ways. both good and bad. So bad habits, you know, you know, show him bad habits. They're going to take on him, show him the good ones. And they're going to do that too. Thank you so much. For this time, I knew we were going to have a good conversation because like I said, we were both very like minded. And I personally, I think we're both pretty damn awesome parents. I think so too. Ya know, so far so, but I do appreciate it and everybody out there. I appreciate you taking the time to listen, and till next time. Have a wonderful life. As the same goes, you don't have to go home but you can't stay here and that's a wrap for this week's episode. A big thanks to my guests for sharing their story and to you for listening. Don't forget to share the show with your friends and spread the words. And if you'd like to be a guest on the show, the link is in the show notes till next time cheers