The Dead Pixels Society podcast
News, information and interviews about the photo/imaging business. This is a weekly audio podcast hosted by Gary Pageau, editor of the Dead Pixels Society news site and community.
This podcast is for a business-to-business audience of entrepreneurs and companies in the photo/imaging retail, online, wholesale, mobile, and camera hardware/accessory industries.
If you are interested in being a guest on the podcast, email host Gary Pageau at gary@thedeadpixelssociety.com. For more information and to sign up for the free weekly newsletter, visit www.thedeadpixelssociety.com.
The Dead Pixels Society podcast
Mastering Google Ads: Strategies, Compliance, and Trends with John Horn
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Unlock the secrets of Google Ads with insights from John Horn, CEO of StubGroup, as we explore the dynamic landscape of digital advertising. Learn the critical distinctions between SEO and paid Google Ads, and discover how strategic ad placements can significantly boost your return on ad spend. Horn shares his expertise in navigating the competitive nature of Google Ads and the importance of both manual and automated bidding strategies to optimize your advertising budget.
Tap into strategies that can transform your advertising success, especially if you're part of a small to mid-sized business. We'll guide you through identifying your unique selling points, like exclusive product lines or exceptional service, and how integrating these into your ads can set you apart. This episode also sheds light on combining SEO with paid advertising for maximum reach and effectiveness, while emphasizing the power of retargeting to re-engage potential customers and improve conversion rates.
We tackle the complex world of Google Ads compliance, offering tips to avoid common pitfalls that could lead to costly account suspensions. Hear about the pros and cons of outsourcing your ad management to seasoned agencies like StubGroup, and why staying updated with current trends, such as the rise of video content, is crucial. Whether you're handling your ads in-house or considering expert help, this episode equips you with the knowledge to stay ahead in the ever-evolving d
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Hosted and produced by Gary Pageau
Edited by Olivia Pageau
Announcer: Erin Manning
Welcome to the Dead Pixel Society podcast, the photo imaging industry's leading news source. Here's your host, Gary Pegeau. The Dead Pixel Society podcast is brought to you by MediaClip, advertag Printing and Independent Photo Imagers.
Gary Pageau:Hello again and welcome to the Dead Pixels Society podcast. I'm your host, gary Pegeau, and today we're joined by John Horn, who's coming to us from Texas, and John is the CEO of a company called Stub Group that is a digital advertising agency and premier Google partner, and he's going to help us get our Google ads in shape. Hey, John, how are you today?
John Horn:Gary doing fantastic Pleasure to be here.
Gary Pageau:When I talk to people for the podcast who aren't from the industry and they're kind of talking about either marketing or SEO or Google ads or things like that, they often have different interpretations or different definitions of kind of what those things are. So what does Stub Group do when it means things like Google ads and things like that?
John Horn:Yeah. So Google, let's kind of break things down. Google obviously is best known as a search engine and most of what we talk about will be on the search engine side of things, although they also own YouTube, they show ads across the web, across the web through their display network, et cetera, but on the search side of things that's what people usually think of as Google, and so within the search side of things, there's really two very separate disciplines. You have what they call SEO or search engine optimization. That's the organic side of things. So that's the quote unquote free traffic.
John Horn:So when someone goes on Google, they see, you know it's a normal listing on your website and they click on that and there's no expense related to that to you as the website. That is organic results and the way you get there is, you know, by a whole host of different things, but basically trying to prove to google that you're a relevant domain, that people are going to find useful and your content is useful, etc. Then the other side of that is the paid side of things and that is where stub group specializes and google they call it google ads and this is what you'll generally see at the top of the page when you search on Google, you'll usually see a couple text ads up at the top of the page, and sometimes you'll see image ads as well, if you're searching for a product that you might purchase online.
John Horn:And so our focus is on using that space, which, again, it's the top of the page, so that's where a lot of people, when they search for something, they see a solution there and click through without even getting to those organic results. And our goal is to help our clients run ads there, do it cost effectively and make a lot more money than they are spending to Google for those placements.
Gary Pageau:Which has always been the challenge. Right when I talk to a lot of retailers. Specifically, a lot of the retailers in the hard goods space seem to be the folks who are really interested in trying to drive traffic because they want people to get to the storm to buy whatever accessory, camera lens or body or whatnot. When someone is in that space where it's a hard good, not a service, and maybe they want to send them to an Amazon store or something like that, what is the biggest mistake up front that they tend to do?
John Horn:Yeah, I'd say the biggest mistake probably unrealistic expectations just about how it's going to work.
John Horn:You know a lot of people think, oh, you know it's going to be a magic bullet, I'm going to have incredibly high return on ad spend.
John Horn:Just throw a few dollars and you know, the orders will just pour in.
John Horn:It used to be like that, you know, a decade ago and in Google ad space, when it was still the wild wild west and most people weren't on there. But nowadays it's very competitive and so you need to be very, very strategic and tactical about how you run campaigns, which products you're advertising, the messaging that you're communicating about those products, et cetera, in order to get good, good, good ROAS, good return on ad spend, and so, ideally, about those products, etc. In order to get good, good, good row as good return on ad spend, and so, um, ideally, you know you want to work with somebody, either in-house or an agency like stub group, someone who can help set expectations and say you know what this type of stuff over here it's so expensive and your margins are x, we probably shouldn't even go after it because we don't see a way for you to to make money, whereas hey, over here, maybe these products are doing really well. You've got some good margin. We see opportunity here. Let's focus your ad dollars there.
Gary Pageau:Now, when you say expense, what you're talking about is basically your bidding. So talk a little bit about kind of the basics of bidding on keywords.
John Horn:Absolutely so. The model, the way that advertisers pay Google is called pay-per-click, so essentially, you are charged by Google every time someone clicks on one of your ads. Now how much you pay is going to completely vary upon all sorts of different factors. It comes down to bidding. So when you create a campaign, when you go to Google, there are a number of different bidding strategies you can use. You can use very manual strategies where you tell Google hey, I wanna get clicks on my ads as long as they're less than $2 or $1.69 or whatever the number is. You can set some manual bids.
John Horn:You can use automated bidding strategies where you give Google goals and you say, hey, I'm trying to hit a return on ad spend of X percent and you're seeing my data, my order data, how people are converting on my website. So they'll let the system make decisions about hey, this search is more likely to convert. We'll bid more aggressively for this click, this click over here probably not going to convert, we'll bid less aggressively, et cetera. So lots of different ways you can do it, but at the end of the day, what you're trying to do is I mean, it's a numbers game you have your conversion rate, so what percentage of people who are clicking on your ads are converting. You have how much money you're making on average from orders, you have your margins, et cetera, and you need to be in a place where you're getting more value, obviously from the orders that are coming through and more profit than what you're expending for the clicks that are leading to those orders.
Gary Pageau:And can you actually be granular enough to say, okay, this ad is producing this amount of revenue for this particular product?
John Horn:Kind of I will say yes with caveats.
John Horn:So there's a lot of great tracking capabilities where you can set up tracking on your website so that when someone clicks through an ad, if they order that product through your website, that gets tracked back to your Google ads campaign.
John Horn:You can see it came from this ad, from this keyword, etc.
John Horn:You can even do phone call tracking, which we do for many of our clients, where if someone clicks through an ad and then calls through your website, we're able to actually track that as well and track that back to the ad and the keyword and so forth.
John Horn:So there's a lot you can see, but there are also always going to be gaps in that. You know, let's say, someone starts doing research on their phone, then they come back in their computer to place an order, or, you know, they clear their cookies a day after the first click and they come back to purchase, et cetera. There's always going to be gaps and so when we look at things, we try to look both what we can directly attribute within the account and say, hey, we know for sure these orders, this revenue, came from the campaigns as well as look big picture, look at the overall bottom line of the business and say, hey, how much money are you making, how much are you allocating towards ad spend, and how is that changing over time? Are we seeing revenue go up as you spend more money or not, which means you're just being less efficient.
Gary Pageau:And so you gotta try and look at both the Now you always hear the rumors back channel stuff that oh, you know your Google ads and your organic search are completely separate. You know your ad spend really doesn't affect your search results. Is that actually the case?
John Horn:What I'll say there, because, yeah, that's a very common question, like you said. I've talked about it a lot with SEO people as well, and paid people. I've never seen any proof that there is a correlation between the paid side of things and the organic side of things. I can't say there isn't, because Google is Google, but I haven't drawn specific correlations. It's kind of a magic box.
Gary Pageau:No one really knows what goes on in there, right?
John Horn:Exactly.
Gary Pageau:Publish the algorithm or other things, so you don't really know. So let's talk about some things that in independent retail, or let's say you've got three or four stores, keeping it realistic right, which I think is the important thing, I think when people maybe they've been dabbling in this and they haven't had too much success and you want to set yourself up for success, so what are some of the one, two or three things you think you ought to do? Just even position yourself to have success, I would think for one thing like tracking being able to know where orders come from would be number one.
John Horn:Yes, tracking, number one, super important Track as much of that customer journey as possible so you can. So, a, you can see how well you're doing, but then also, b, you can see what is doing well, because it's the Pareto principle. Not every single thing in your account is going to work as every other single single thing. So you want to see, all right, this is wasted ad spend, let's cut this, let's move that over here. These keywords campaigns are working better. Let's spend more money there. So tracking, yeah, very, very important.
John Horn:Then I would say, thinking through, what are your competitive advantages?
John Horn:So, if you know, most of us have, have competitors and you want to look and see where is my advertising dollar going to get the biggest bang for each, for each buck. So if there is a particular, you know, line of products that you carry that your competitors don't carry in that area, well, maybe you should emphasize advertising that line of products, because when people see that they're going to see you're the only game in town, also, you get them. You know, maybe there's a situation where I don't know, you know your competitors are slower than you are at at getting orders shipped out or at, you know, taking rush orders, whatever. Go ahead and really work that into your messaging and say, hey, same day service or next day shipping or whatever. Ahead and really work that into your messaging and say hey, same day service or next day shipping or whatever. You know, find those things that set you apart and that your customers already appreciate about you and it's already working, and then use your advertising to amplify that and double down on that.
Gary Pageau:Would there be a way, for example, to look at your search and say these are the terms people are using for to find me via search, right? Maybe they're searching for camera accessory, or they're searching for lens or filter or something like that. Can you then use that information as the source for your ad campaign, even though they're not? You know, technically there's no connection between the two. That is how people are finding you.
John Horn:Absolutely. Yeah, that's a very important strategy to have connection between that SEO side of things and the paid side of things, and it goes both ways, because on the SEO side of things you can say okay, what are we ranking for? What are people searching for? Great, those are great keywords we should target with our paid campaigns. And then vice versa, if you see, hey, these terms are really working in our paid campaigns they're converting Great. Well, we should be creating content around these so that we can rank those pages organically and capture that free, organic traffic as well.
Gary Pageau:How long does it take really for an ad campaign to really get some juice going? Because what I see with a lot of independents is they have all these great ideas, I need to do a program and then life gets in the way and they maybe wait too long for the fourth quarter to get their campaign together or something like that. What are some reasonable expectations for a small to mid-sized business to start seeing results with paid advertising?
John Horn:Yeah, fantastic question. I'll answer that in two parts. The first part is you can very quickly start seeing whether or not you're getting traffic and engagement with your ads. That's one of the beautiful, beautiful things about the paid side of things versus SEO. Seo, you put a page up. You hope six months from now it's going to rank. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't.
John Horn:Not a lot you can do with paid. You're going to know immediately whether or not people are clicking on your ads, whether they're searching for what you're targeting. Now that doesn't mean that your campaigns are working efficiently yet. It doesn't mean that you're getting orders yet. But you know, okay, there's something here we can work with it, optimize it. Or hey, no one's searching for this, this is not going to work. So the second part of the answer is usually we recommend to businesses we start working with hey, give us at least three months to really get things to a good place where you had the right trajectory. And that doesn't mean that your campaigns will be perfect within three months, but we should have a really good sense for what performance looks like. We should see your return on ad spend increasing, your cost per lead coming down, whatever your goals are, and getting to a profitable place.
Gary Pageau:Because it's like an investment. It's like any other business process where people have to invest in, whether they're with yourself or with staff or somebody. There's not going to be an immediate return on this.
John Horn:Often, yeah, it really comes down to the data. So you're collecting data to see what's working well for you and your particular business Right, Because every business, every market, is different. There's obviously lots and lots of best practices and shortcuts that someone who knows what they're doing can bring to things. If Stub Group builds a campaign versus someone who's never built a Google Ads campaign, we're going to be far, far down the road of getting good results. But even when we build campaigns, we still have to collect the data and see for your market, for your website, what's working, what's converting, what's not working, and then optimize, tweak over time to again make things more efficient, cut the waste, double down on what's working and get the campaigns to a really good place where they're firing in all cylinders.
Gary Pageau:One of the phrases that we always hear about in the ad world is retargeting. Can you talk a little bit about, because I've never understood that? Explain to me, as if to a child, what retargeting is and why it's important for people with online stores.
John Horn:It's basically the creepy thing that a lot of people get creeped out about when you go look at sneakers on a website and then suddenly every other website you go to you're seeing ads for sneakers. And the way that works is basically just through tracking code. So there'll be a piece of code that I create for a client from their advertising account. I put that on their website and then when you click on my ad and go to that website, the code on there adds a little cookie to your browser, says hey, gary came to this website and he looked at this product on the website. And then you leave. You know, go check weathercom or go check some scores or whatever, and many of those websites obviously serve ads and those ads are often a part of google's ad network or there's some other ad networks as well, and basically those cookies just follow you around and say, hey, this is this is g, this is Gary. I don't really care what website Gary's on. We know that Gary is relevant to us because he looked at the sneaker and we're going to show him an ad for the sneaker to stay front of mind, to encourage him to come back and purchase, and they can be very effective when done well. Um, they can be annoying as well when not done well. So you know you got to work on it carefully.
John Horn:But I'd say one reason a lot of people really like retargeting ads or remarketing is another word for the same thing is because they're relatively inexpensive. You're only showing ads to people who have been to your website, so they're already kind of pre-qualified. They at least know who you are, they've expressed interest. So you're not just throwing money at anybody in the world, you're throwing it at. Hey, the couple hundred, the couple thousand people will come to your website and so it's not expensive to show them ads. And if a couple of them are encouraged by those ads to come back and purchase, great, you've got an awesome return on ad spend on that campaign.
Gary Pageau:So a lot of times, people who have a Google ads account may run afoul of the Google right. They may have their account suspended or they could have you know run into issues. What are some of the typical things that could get your account into trouble as a Google advertiser?
John Horn:Yeah, we spend a tremendous amount of time helping advertisers with this, to the point where we actually have a whole team devoted to helping advertisers with this, to the point where we actually have a whole team devoted to helping advertisers with compliance issues, and we'll have lots of businesses to reach out and hire us for help specifically with that, because Google has lots and lots of policies related to advertising that you have to follow. Their goal is they want to protect the ecosystem. They want, hey, if you go and search on Google, you shouldn't have to worry about clicking on an ad that's got malware in it, or purchasing from a website through an ad that's never going to deliver your product, just takes your money, et cetera. So Google's trying to prevent all those types of things. They build up tons of policies and tons of both manual and automated checks to see if people are complying with these policies, and they take down a ton of bad actors, which is great. Problem is they also, as part of that, because of the volume in which they operate, they take down a lot of legitimate advertisers. They say, hey, you can't advertise anymore, and they don't really tell you what you did wrong. They'll point you to generic policies of hey, you've got suspicious payments issues or you've circumvented our systems and they'll give you you know might be 10 examples of things that maybe you did, or it might be something not on this list and they don't tell you what it is. And so we help you know, we help businesses figure out what went wrong and get that fixed.
John Horn:But some of the top things I see be issues are, first of all, on the payment side of things. So a lot of advertisers will face what they call a suspicious payment suspension, and sometimes this happens right when they create a new ad account and they haven't even paid money to Google yet. So, like, how is it suspicious? I haven't actually paid you money yet, but basically Google's looking at things and if they see, hey, maybe your credit card was used in another ad account at a different time or the same billing address or things like that, things that look suspicious, that are also sometimes done by bad actors then they might suspend you for that.
John Horn:So just be really careful when you're creating ad accounts. You know, don't, don't go crazy, don't be like, oh, just create a bunch of ad accounts, like no, treat them very carefully. Use one, generally speaking, per website. When you enter your payment method, your business information, enter it correctly, look for typos, look for mismatches. It can be stupid, but I've seen things as simple as a period in one place versus not another place, getting an account suspended.
John Horn:Just things are crazy. And then again Google won't tell you like it's this period. So the only way you find out you know trial and error or working with somebody who knows what to look for, um, so be careful about that. Don't put ads in your account that point to broken pages on your website or that have redirects. Um, even if they're paused ads, you might be like, hey, I'm creating a new landing page, I'm just gonna put this ad in here, I'm gonna keep it paused and not running it. Well, google still crawls paused ads and they will still suspend you, even if you're not actively trying to run that ad right now, if they see problems.
Gary Pageau:So what would be the reason for something like that? I mean, you're not showing the ad, so what's the problem? It's a great question. I can't.
John Horn:I can't speak to why Google does so many of the things they do. Ultimately, the way the system is set up, is they just anything in your account that's not deleted, anything that's paused or active? They will crawl at a when it's up, whenever they want to, essentially, and if they see anything that violates their policies, they don't care whether you're actually trying to run it right now or not. They basically make the assumption that it's in your account, so it's a problem. It may be a problem at some point, and so I've seen instances where people change their website URL and they set up a redirect from their old website to the new website. Pretty normal, pretty standard. But they had old pause campaigns they hadn't run for years in their ad account that still had the old URL in there, and Google suspended them for that, even though it'd been years since they were running those ads. So don't play around with Google. They mean business and once they crack down, it's very challenging.
Gary Pageau:It takes a lot of work and time to fix those issues Part of the reason why people, as shoppers, they like Google because they are doing these things. So I mean there's a benefit to the end user for that, that they are going through these policies, that they're not showing ads or from companies that aren't delivering or bad reputations or whatnot. So I mean there's a benefit to it. But, like you said, the sad thing is you know there's not like you can call 1-800-GOOGLE and talk to your account rep and have them fix it. Right, that's not what happens.
John Horn:Exactly yeah, they're doing it for the right reasons. It's been a lot of good. You know they suspended 12 million ad accounts last year. I'm sure a high percentage of those should have been suspended. We're bad actors. It's just that that percentage of legit ones that get caught up. That's where the frustration comes into play.
Gary Pageau:What is the length of time? You think someone is typically, let's say, a legit person who has some of the problems you said? Maybe they, you know they did a redirect incorrectly that an old campaign or whatnot. How long does that take to get resolved? Because that's lost money, right? If they're not showing ads, you're not driving traffic and you're not ran the cash register, theoretically, what is a typical downtime for your ad program?
John Horn:There's a huge range of times, um, I would say the average that we're seeing right now is probably one to two months in that range of being down and, of course, again there's, there's, there's outliers on both sides. Sometimes it's like hey, as fast as the day you're back online. Sometimes you never get back online, right there are, there are situations where it's just a complete you're, you're done and so what can you do then?
Gary Pageau:I mean, let's say, for example, you've done what you think is the right thing. Google disagrees, it's their platform, they boot you. Can you just start fresh over with like a new website or whatever? I'm just trying to figure out what someone would do.
John Horn:It's tricky because, yeah, if you create another ad account, generally speaking, google's going to suspend that because of its connection to the previous one, cause they're they're saying hey, we don't want you advertising because of we think you're valuing our policies, and so you do a new ad account, and now you might be in even more more trouble, depending on how you, how you go about it. It's a really tricky situation because I mean, I've I've seen businesses literally go out of business because Google just wouldn't let them back online.
John Horn:The best recommendation I have for advertisers when they are in this situation is to find someone like Stub Group who specializes in this and we have a high success rate. We don't have 100%. There are some times where Google just for whatever reason, will say no, won't tell you why, and you're cooked, and we'll work with clients to figure you why. And and you're cooked, um, and we'll, you know, work with clients to figure out alternatives and workarounds. Then um, but most of the time again, it takes a lot of time yeah, yeah, you can go to.
John Horn:You can go to bing and and uh, and you know, facebook, other platforms yeah, try to try to make up for what you're losing from google, but it's. It's hard for a lot of advertisers because google is just where people go for answers these days.
Gary Pageau:Yeah, I mean that's part of the reason why they're where they are is because so that whole space, the advertising paid advertising. It's constantly changing. So for a company like Stub Group, I mean this is your business, this is how you stay in business, keeping up with all this stuff. How difficult, how difficult would be for someone to have like someone on their staff to keep up with this, versus outsourcing it to someone like yourself.
John Horn:Yeah, yeah, great question. So I'll answer that in two parts. On the on the policy compliance side of things that we were just talking about, I would say very, very difficult, because a big part of what we bring to the table is we've we've been doing it for a decade and so we've built up over time pattern recognition. This worked. This didn't work over hundreds and hundreds of suspensions which no one company is going to have access to. So on that side of things, it's really not possible to replicate what an agency can bring to things by having someone in-house On the management side of things of actually running campaigns. You can certainly, you know, hire people to manage campaigns for you in-house.
John Horn:Many companies take that approach and there's pros and cons of doing that versus hiring an agency. The pros obviously are you've got a person completely dedicated on you, they can fully integrate with your team, so forth and so on. All of their time is spent on your accounts, et cetera. The downside is they don't have access to a lot of the same resources and wealth of knowledge that an agency brings and some of the more advanced resources at Google that we can bring to the table as well as an agency and you're also, you know you're kind of stuck with one person and hopefully they're good if they're your in-house person, but you know you're taking a flyer, you're probably paying them quite a bit of money. You know if they're working for you full time and and hopefully they've got the skillset you need, whereas you know with an agency, again, you have access to a wider breadth of experience, often multiple people with different perspectives, working on your account and and often less expensive, as well than hiring, you know, a full in-house person.
Gary Pageau:So one of the other advantages with today's hiring environment is you know people are leaving. You know they're quite quitting or leaving or whatever you want to call it. You know they're. It's hard to find and keep people.
John Horn:It is yeah, absolutely so. Yeah, both. Both hiring and house and hiring agency both are completely acceptable ways to go about running advertising. Really, it comes down to the the business and their size and their goals and how much risk they want to take on and so forth.
Gary Pageau:Advertising is is very trendy, right. It follows trends, trends and things. There's a lot of video stuff that's happening right now. Is that something that you know you're finding as being successful, or is it just more of a creative people doing creative things trying to get eyeballs, but how effective is it?
John Horn:yeah, I would say there's definitely a combination just between foundational basics and then what is what is what is new, and making sure that we're on top of both things. It can be easy to just chase the shiny objects and not say, hey, there's just pillars that need to be done, of successful advertising, and sometimes it's not glamorous, but running text ads on Google, it gets money, it gets money in the door. So you know we shouldn't stop doing it. But at the same time, yes, like you said, advertising is about what's what's trending, what's changing. It's about um changing um.
John Horn:You know behaviors, how people find information, how they choose to make purchases, where they go. You know YouTube, for example, right now is a massive place where people spend a ton of time They'll go search for. You know product unboxings, product reviews. You know checking out the latest camera and things, and so there, that might be exactly where you want to be. You might want to have an, an ad running for your local business when someone goes to check out. You know Nikon's latest camera review and oh, hey, guess what? You can buy it over here on the corner, yeah, yeah, those kinds of things. Thinking strategically, staying on top of how those, those behaviors are changing is also really important for successful advertisers.
Gary Pageau:When you're doing youtube advertising, even though google owns that, it's not the same. There are some differences in terms of the dashboard and how you approach it the.
John Horn:There are definitely differences in how you approach it. Google does actually let you manage your YouTube campaigns through the same platform and log in as your search campaigns on Googlecom, so you log into the same place. But, yeah, it's definitely very different in that the targeting options are different. You're targeting more audience-based, less search-based. There is a search component because people do a lot of searches on youtube as well and you can see ads come up there, but a lot of it's okay. These are the types of persons that I want to show my ads to and this is the type of content I want to serve my ads against. So there might be specific channels, specific categories, even specific videos, like the you know, the product review example, specific categories, even specific videos, like the product review example, where you say, hey, I for sure want this video ad to show up in stream when someone starts watching this other video, and then the other big difference is the direct attribution side of things with YouTube is usually a lot fuzzier than with, let's say, search campaigns, because you're higher in the marketing funnel.
John Horn:Generally speaking, on YouTube You're making people aware of you, but they're still watching other content, so most people aren't going to right now, you know, stop watching the review of the camera and click to your website and purchase it. But you're in their mind. And so tomorrow, when they say, all right, I'm going to buy this product, and they search for it and they see your ad come up oh yeah, these guys are who I want to go with. Your ad come up, oh yeah, these guys are who I want to go with. And so it's kind of more about creating awareness, um, some direct response, but but feeding your funnel, uh, so that people then, will you know, either come to your website directly after the fact or through other channels and then actually make their, their purchases there's a lot there I'm in terms of having to manage all this.
Gary Pageau:Where does someone go for more information about uh StubG roup? Maybe check out? You've got a lot of videos on youtube yourself talking about this stuff, so can you talk about, like, where you can go for more information?
John Horn:absolutely, yeah, two places, like you said, YouTube we put out a lot of free content on there, so just search StubG roup on youtube. Find our channel. Lots of good info, um that hopefully you find helpful if you're watching this, you're listening to this, and also a StubG roup. com. We've got some free resources on there. You can download tips for running successful campaigns, tips for staying compliant with Google. That will hopefully put you in a safer position as you get into this game.
Gary Pageau:Well, John ohn it was great talking to you. I've learned a lot, which is always a good sign, and I appreciate your time and your expertise. Thank you so much.
John Horn:Absolutely, Gary. Thank you so much for having me.
Erin Manning:Thank you for listening to the Dead Pixels Society podcast. Read more great stories and sign up for the newsletter at wwwthedeadpixelssocietycom.
