Lizzie Borden Audio
Lizzie Borden Audio is a new episodic series that appeals to lovers of the dark and macabre nature of a historical true crime investigation from the famous 1892 case. Told from multiple witnesses utilizing the primary source transcripts with short musical interludes, it is the first podcast made entirely from trial testimony with humorous bits of music to accent the absurd and sometimes comical nature of the crime. All work is nonfiction and comes from the trial, the published works of Borden scholars, and the newspapers of the time.
Lizzie Borden Audio
The Inquest of Dr. Seabury Bowen, w/ 2 Excerpts of The Knowlton Papers
Dr. Bowen was summoned shortly after Lizzie Borden discovered the body of her father, Andrew Borden, dead in the sitting room with his head smashed open by a hatchet. Shortly after Doc Bowen arrived he encountered several witnesses and gave his timeline of events and sadly, described how Mrs. Borden visited his office early Wednesday morning stating that someone was trying to poison her the day before the murders.
Bowen made acute observations on Lizzie and Bridget's behavior including what they were wearing, their composure, and whether or not Lizzie was fainting or crying as the papers said she "was having fainting fits."
District Attorney Hosea Knowlton: Tim Dennis
Dr. Seabury W. Bowen: David Loftus
Fainting Lizzie: Rina Sklar
Music: The Gargoyles of Notre Dame by Alex Grey
Voiceover Narration: Don Sharp @Sharpvoiceovers on Fiverr
Trial transcripts provided with permission by Stefani Koorey
and www.LizzieAndrewBorden.com
HK 130 and HK 332 were selected from "The Knowlton Papers" by the Fall River Historical Society.
Performed by CrankyPants T.D. Dennis
"Jonsey" on KBOO.fm.org for some of the most interesting people in the world of books, podcasts, radio theater, music & humor. Guaranteed to entertain & enlighten. And thanks for the review, Jonsey! Jonsey @KBOO.fm.org
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And now HK 130.
Rev. R.M. Devens:Dear Sir! There has been a deal said about the impossibility of Lizzie Borden killing her father and mother without her clothing being stained with blood. Now every woman knows that her gossamer waterproof cloak such as every woman owns will protect the clothing completely and that a fire hot enough for our ironing would reduce it to ashes in less than five minutes. I have heard the subject discussed among women who claim to know.
Narrator:And now, the inquest of Doctor Seabury Bowen shortly after the murders of Andrew and Abby Borden in the summer of 1892.
D.A. Knowlton:Doctor Seabury W. Bowen?
Dr. Bowen:Yes.
D.A. Knowlton:You are a physician?
Dr. Bowen:Yes.
D.A. Knowlton:You live next to the Bordens?
Dr. Bowen:Yes.
D.A. Knowlton:How long have you lived there?
Dr. Bowen:I lived across the street from Mr. Borden 20 years.
D.A. Knowlton:You undoubtedly were well acquainted with the family?
Dr. Bowen:Yes, sir.
D.A. Knowlton:And intimately so?
Dr. Bowen:Well, yes.
D.A. Knowlton:You were their family physician?
Dr. Bowen:Yes, sir.
D.A. Knowlton:They did not need much doctoring?
Dr. Bowen:No, sir.
D.A. Knowlton:Had you attended Mr. Borden recently previous to his being killed?
Dr. Bowen:No, sir.
D.A. Knowlton:Had you give him any Bismuth powders or anything of that sort?
Dr. Bowen:No, sir.
D.A. Knowlton:Do you know whether he had any such things around the house?
Dr. Bowen:I don't know.
D.A. Knowlton:Have you ever prescribed them for him?
Dr. Bowen:No, sir.
D.A. Knowlton:Or for any member of the family?
Dr. Bowen:Not that I remember of. I don't think I have.
D.A. Knowlton:So far as you know, he was a man that knew enough about that branch of science to take medicine himself if he had occasion to.
Dr. Bowen:That is a question I could not answer. I am sure I don't know.
D.A. Knowlton:Assuming that Bismuth was found in his stomach. You would not have any idea how it got there.
Dr. Bowen:No, sir.
D.A. Knowlton:You had not been called that week to the family?
Dr. Bowen:No, sir. I had not been called. I went over to see them. The day before Wednesday morning. About eight o'clock or before eight Mrs. Borden came to the door and said she was frightened, said that she was afraid she was poisoned. I told her to come in. She sat down and she said the night before about nine o'clock she and her husband commenced to vomit and vomited for two or three hours until 12, I understood. What morning was this? Wednesday morning. I asked her what she had eaten for supper and she told me she said she had eaten some Baker's white bread and she had heard of Baker's cream cakes being poisonous and was afraid there was something poisonous in the bread that made her vomit. She said she only ate cake and Baker's white bread. At that time. She had a sort of eructation of vomiting, slightly. I was afraid she was going to vomit there. I rather got ready for her. I told her to go home and told her what to take and she took it.
D.A. Knowlton:Do you recollect what it was you prescribed for her?
Dr. Bowen:I told her to take some castor oil and take it in a little port wine to take the taste off. And probably that would be all she would want. I think immediately after breakfast. I thought they were neighbors. I would just go over. Before that she said Lizzie came down. She heard them vomiting. I think she was in the next room. And she was up too and she commenced to vomit at that time about 12. I thought if they did not call me I would go over and make a friendly call. I went over after breakfast. And then Bridget let me in. I'm very sure it was the front door. I says Mr. Borden, what is the matter? He looked at me and wanted to know if anybody had sent for me. I told him no. Mrs. Borden was over. I thought I would just come over and see he seemed well enough then. He said he felt a little heavy and did not feel just right. But he said he did not think he needed any medicine. I did not urge him at all, of course, and I went home. I did not think much about it. I saw Mr. Borden out two or three hours afterwards. When I went in. I saw Lizzie run upstairs. Mrs. Borden? I did not see because I had seen her before.
D.A. Knowlton:Did you see Lizzie that morning?
Dr. Bowen:She was just going upstairs as I went in the front door. I thought it was her. I'm not quite sure.
D.A. Knowlton:That it was somebody you thought was Lizzie?
Dr. Bowen:Yes, sir. Somebody I suppose was Lizzie, I did not see her face.
D.A. Knowlton:And you did not talk to her?
Dr. Bowen:No, sir.
D.A. Knowlton:You did not see them again to speak to them before they were killed?
Dr. Bowen:No, I did not see any of them to speak to them. I don't think I'm very certain I did not.
D.A. Knowlton:Where did you afterwards see Mr. Borden? Did you see him Thursday?
Dr. Bowen:Don't remember of seeing him Thursday might possibly I saw him Wednesday. Walking along between the side door and gate. Lizzie I saw walking up the street and I concluded they were all right all them.
D.A. Knowlton:You don't recollect seeing Mr. Borden out on the street Thursday at all.
Dr. Bowen:I don't recollect it.
D.A. Knowlton:Did you see Mrs. Borden on Thursday?
Dr. Bowen:No, I did not see her Thursday. I don't remember.
D.A. Knowlton:Did you see Lizzie on Thursday before you were called in?
Dr. Bowen:I don't think I did. I don't remember seeing any of them. I started off probably at nine o'clock.
D.A. Knowlton:You go out on your travels at nine o'clock or thereabouts?
Dr. Bowen:I intend to.
D.A. Knowlton:You get back when or no habit about it?
Dr. Bowen:I intend to be around probably once an hour if I can.
D.A. Knowlton:What was the first information that you had of the tragedy?
Dr. Bowen:I drove up to my house and my wife came to the door and made a motion and says they want you quick to Mr. Bordon's the same time I think Thomas Bowles a man works across the street told me at the same time, I don't know which was first. I thought probably they were worse. So I went right over quick.
D.A. Knowlton:When you got there. Who did you find?
Dr. Bowen:I found Miss Lizzie.
D.A. Knowlton:Anybody else?
Dr. Bowen:Bridget.
D.A. Knowlton:You were the first outsider to get there?
Dr. Bowen:So far as I know.
D.A. Knowlton:Mrs. Churchill had not then got there?
Dr. Bowen:No, sir.
D.A. Knowlton:Did Ms. Lizzie speak to you?
Dr. Bowen:Yes, sir.
D.A. Knowlton:Tell exactly what happened now.
Dr. Bowen:I went to the door, and I met them in the hall. I went in the side door. I thought I would get in there quicker. I was so much in a hurry. I happened to go that way. I met Miss Lizzie in the hall and Bridget. I says, Lizzie what is the matter? I spoke pretty quick. I say what is the matter? Lizzie? She said she was afraid her father had been stabbed or hurt. I think the word stabbed was used. I says has there been anybody here? She said no, not as she knew of I would not say that. She said no. I take that back. She said not as she knew of, I think. She said she had overheard her father several times talking loud recently and said she was afraid some of the tenants had had some trouble with him. That is just as near as I can remember it.
D.A. Knowlton:That conversation took place immediately?
Dr. Bowen:That took place immediately. The first thing I said where is he? The door was shut as it usually is. I never saw it open hardly between the kitchen and sitting room. I went through the dining room.
D.A. Knowlton:You said where is he? And what answer did she give?
Dr. Bowen:In the sitting room. She beckoned along through the dining room, I went through the dining room to the door between the dining room and the sitting room that was directly at the head of the sofa. As soon as I got at the door, I could see the whole room and saw him because I was prepared for something awful. As I did not hear him and there was no sound. He lay there still unrecognizable. His face was cut in such a manner I never should have known who it was. I stepped in a second looked around the room to see if there was any disturbance. It struck me like a flash to see if there was anything left in the room. Then I went right back again and told them that their father was dead. I took hold of his pulse and found that he was dead satisfied myself. I did not know that he was when I saw him. I took hold of his pulse and found he was pulseless. Then I went back and informed them that he was dead. Then what? Then what did she say to that? Or what did she do? I can't tell I don't know. I was stunned myself.
D.A. Knowlton:What was said about the mother, if anything?
Dr. Bowen:There was an inquiry made I don't know whether I made it somebody said Where is Mrs. Borden? Where is Mrs. Borden? Lizzie said I think I think she said she had a note this morning to go and see a sick friend. That is all such a serious affairs that I did not stop and could not do anything. I was satisfied of that. In that time. I said I must go and get some of the officers right off. Perhaps I said I would get the officers. Lizzie said that Emma was in Fairhaven and wanted me to telegraph to her before I went out she said if you telegraph to her, perhaps she will come on this noon train. I went directly across to my house, told my wife and told her about telegraphing. I was satisfied. She could not come on the noon train direct. So my boy drove me down to the telegraph office and I telegraphed to Miss Emma Borden.
D.A. Knowlton:You would not then heard that the mother had been killed too?
Dr. Bowen:No, sir.
D.A. Knowlton:And then I went across to Baker's Drugstore I motioned the boy to come along. I stopped two to three minutes there and told them of it. When I came out. I got in my carriage again and drove directly to the house again and stopped at Mr. Borden's door and went in. There were no crowds there at that time that I remember of. I drove up on his side and told the boy to stand there. Had the crowd began to collect?
Dr. Bowen:No, sir.
D.A. Knowlton:The news had not got around?
Dr. Bowen:No, sir. I don't know as I saw anybody going in at that time. Then I went directly to the same side door and was met there by Mrs. Churchill and Alice Russell. I think Mrs. Churchill, I'm sure one of them. Somebody I think Mrs. Churchill said they have found Mrs. Borden. I said where she said she was upstairs. You better go up. Then I went upstairs.
D.A. Knowlton:Up the front stairs?
Dr. Bowen:Yes, went up the front stairs. As I got at the top of the stairs. As soon as I got up on the second story, I could look right over the bed and I saw her lying there flat prone. My thought was that she had run up there and fainted. I went right around the foot of the bed and satisfied myself in an instant that she was not living. I don't know whether I got ahold of her pulse but I satisfied myself some way I don't know how that she was not living. I went right downstairs again and told them Mrs. Borden was dead killed the same instant I think I said that.
D.A. Knowlton:When you looked over the bed and saw the form on the floor, where were you in the hallway?
Dr. Bowen:I think I must have been. I don't think I should probably have looked until I got up to the top of the stairs. I could if I had been looking, I've looked as soon as my head got level, I might then have seen her under the bed. I went directly up fast. And as soon as I looked in the door, I looked over the bed.
D.A. Knowlton:When you looked over the bed and saw the form on the floor, where were you in the hallway?
Dr. Bowen:Not exactly. You would have to come up to the head of the stairs and go back a little.
D.A. Knowlton:So where was she lying? You could see it from the head of the stairs. You went downstairs and what then?
Dr. Bowen:I told them she was dead. Then it's pretty confused. The rest of it along there for some time. I could not say who they were exactly. They kept coming and going. I told Bridget to get a sheet and covered up Mr. Borden and kept the door shut so the women would not see and let the men go along.
D.A. Knowlton:When you came back from going down the street. Who did you find there besides those you named?
Dr. Bowen:I named Mrs. Churchill and Lizzie Borden and Miss Russell and Bridget. Do you mean when I came back from upstairs?
D.A. Knowlton:No, downtown.
Dr. Bowen:Whether Mr. Sawyer was there before I got back from downtown or directly after I cannot tell myself. Mr. Charles Sawyer was there very near I think the time.
D.A. Knowlton:Was he a neighbor?
Dr. Bowen:No, I don't know where he does live. I have known him some time.
D.A. Knowlton:When you came down from upstairs. Were more there?
Dr. Bowen:Yes. My wife was there then. I told her to go right home.
D.A. Knowlton:Had anybody else besides your wife come?
Dr. Bowen:I could not swear to that.
D.A. Knowlton:If you are not sure Mr. Sawyer had got there when you came in from downtown. Was he there when you came down from upstairs?
Dr. Bowen:I know he was there. Almost the first man I could not swear to that.
D.A. Knowlton:If you are not sure Mr. Sawyer had got there when you came in from downtown. Was he there when you came down from upstairs?
Dr. Bowen:I don't know whether Mr. Allen came before Sawyer or not. I don't think it was there before I started out in town.
D.A. Knowlton:How long before the first police officer came pretty soon after that, so far as you remember now accepting the three that you have named Sawyer, possibly and Mrs. Churchill and Alice Russell. Were the only ones that had gotten there.
Dr. Bowen:I could not say and Bridget I don't remember if seeing anybody I would not want to say.
D.A. Knowlton:It did not take you a great while to go down and back?
Dr. Bowen:I drove right down to the office quick.
D.A. Knowlton:Your horse was there already?
Dr. Bowen:Yes, sir.
D.A. Knowlton:You notify the police office?
Dr. Bowen:I notified somebody there to get the police. I told them at the house
D.A. Knowlton:When you came back?
Dr. Bowen:Yes, sir. At the house.
D.A. Knowlton:The second time you came to the house the crowd had not begun to collect?
Dr. Bowen:I don't remember seeing anybody on the sidewalk. There was no carriage there as I drove up under the tree close to the door.
D.A. Knowlton:You do not remember seeing Morse when you got back the second time?
Dr. Bowen:No, sir.
D.A. Knowlton:Nor when you got down from upstairs?
Dr. Bowen:No, sir. Not directly. I did not see him for some little time. I don't know when.
D.A. Knowlton:Had the crowd began to collect a great deal when he came?
Dr. Bowen:Yes. A good many were there. I can't say who... people that I knew. I knew almost everybody that came in.
D.A. Knowlton:Did Bridget have anything to say when you first went into the house at all?
Dr. Bowen:I don't know. I can't remember.
D.A. Knowlton:Was Mr. Borden's body warm when you felt it?
Dr. Bowen:There was nothing that attracted my attention. The main thing was I found he was dead.
D.A. Knowlton:Which would more likely attract your attention because coldness would attract my attention?
Dr. Bowen:He was pulseless that is what would attract me. If he was cold it would attract my attention.
D.A. Knowlton:You infer inferentially that he was not cold?
Dr. Bowen:I don't think he was cold. I think if he had been cold it would attract my attention. Probably it might and might not. I felt of his pulse and found it was pulseless and found he was dead. I did not stop for a minute in the room I don't suppose.
D.A. Knowlton:As he looked at you when you went in was it pretty plain that he was badly cut up?
Dr. Bowen:Oh, yes, Sir. I did not recognize him. I should not have recognized him.
D.A. Knowlton:Was the blood on his face?
Dr. Bowen:Yes, the blood was on his face and his eyeball cut directly in two he lay on his right side. The right side of his face was not seen I saw the whole of the cut then and none of the healthy part.
D.A. Knowlton:Do you recollect how Lizzie was dressed that morning.
Dr. Bowen:It is pretty hardwork for me probably if I could see a dress something like it I could guess but I could not describe it was sort of a drab or not much color of to it to attract my attention. Sort of a morning Calico dress I should judge.
D.A. Knowlton:Did she change her dress?
Dr. Bowen:She changed her dress sometime in the course of two or three hours. I noticed she had on a wrapper I think afterwards. She didn't do that until she went up into a room to stay.
D.A. Knowlton:When did she go up to her room to stay?
Dr. Bowen:It is pretty hard saying what time. Very soon after the crowd I should say. It is pretty hard saying how long I could not tell.
D.A. Knowlton:When you first came, you all came to the side door?
Dr. Bowen:Yes sir.
D.A. Knowlton:Where was she standing? Exactly.
Dr. Bowen:I could not say exactly where whether she met me at the end of the entry or where I could not say I have the impression now that she was at the side door and opened the screen door and the door was half opened and ready for me that that is my impression.
D.A. Knowlton:Where was Bridget?
Dr. Bowen:She was very near the entry was very short and she was very near I could not say exactly.
D.A. Knowlton:What was Miss Lizzie's appearance and manner.
Dr. Bowen:Well, she was excited and well, it's hard to describe it. She was somewhat excited in a hurry for me to come.
D.A. Knowlton:In tears?
Dr. Bowen:No, sir.
D.A. Knowlton:What was Miss Bridget's appearance and manner?
Dr. Bowen:She was calm so far as any excitement in her face was concerned she was uneasy and excited in action, but not in her face. I don't think I'm prepared to say much about that.
D.A. Knowlton:Perhaps you did not take much notice of Bridget.
Dr. Bowen:I did not take much notice of either of them. The main thing was to see what the matter was and get at it quick.
D.A. Knowlton:The conversation with relation to Mr. Borden is having had trouble with some man was all right there.
Dr. Bowen:Yes, before I went in to see him. She said Mr. Borden I'm afraid is injured or father. I don't know whether it was Mr. Borden or father. I am afraid he is stabbed. And just the same as I have said.
D.A. Knowlton:Was it not very apparent when you went in that he was not only stabbed but very much cut up? Was it not very apparent that he was very badly cut up?
Dr. Bowen:Yes.
D.A. Knowlton:Have you attended Miss Lizzie since that time?
Dr. Bowen:Since it was done? Yes. I have seen her every day.
D.A. Knowlton:Has she had any physical difficulties? Been ill? I ask mostly on account of the newspapers they say she has had fainting fits.
Dr. Bowen:Nothing more than I should expect nothing special no more than I would expect from anybody that is undergoing a severe strain.
Fainting Lizzie:Oh oh, I think I'm going to faint.
D.A. Knowlton:Has not fainted?
Dr. Bowen:No, sir, not fainted. By the way I might put in it does not connect, but I will go back to the time when I came down. The second time. I can describe her condition at that time. When I came downstairs the second time, after I found the mother was dead. Miss Russell was at her side in a chair and was working over her at that time. In a minute or two. She got her into the dining room on a sofa or lounge on the end of that she was lying down and she was fanning her and had wet clothes put on her head and they were working over her in that way.
D.A. Knowlton:Was she faint?
Narrator:Oh oh oh...I think I'm going to faint...
Dr. Bowen:Not as far as I know of it that time as I found two people murdered there, I suppose the rest would take care of themselves pretty well.
Narrator:And now we pause this interview to bring you a letter written to District Attorney Hosea Knowlton about THAT NOTE known as HK332 by the Reverend Richard M. Devins.
Rev. R.M. Devens:Over the the 80,000 people of Fall River, not one during after all that 10 months has ever come forward in the interest of justice, friendship, or humanity to say that they ONE! Wrote that note or caused it to be written or sent it or by whom, TWO! Nobody has ever come forward to say that a note from Mrs. Borden was entrusted to them that day and was delivered and to whom. THREE! Nobody of the 100s of 1000s acquainted with Mrs. B. or with her marked personality for 30 years past has ever come forward to say that they spoke with her or met her or saw her on the streets coming out going on that day. Reverend R.M. Devens!
D.A. Knowlton:Had you known of anybody working around the house there recently before that?
Dr. Bowen:No, sir. I did not know of anybody if they had been I don't know as I should have known it.
D.A. Knowlton:Do you know whether Mr. Borden kept axes or hatches?
Dr. Bowen:Oh, no, Sir.
D.A. Knowlton:You did not go into his affairs enough for that?
Dr. Bowen:Oh no, sir. I'd never went into the cellar in my life as I remember of.
D.A. Knowlton:Were you intimate enough with the family to know what the relations were between Mr. And Mrs. Borden?
Dr. Bowen:In what way?
D.A. Knowlton:As husband and wife were they cordial and intimate and affectionate?
Dr. Bowen:So far as I ever saw, I never saw anything to the contrary. That is all I can tell of course.
D.A. Knowlton:You had no reason to suppose to the contrary?
Dr. Bowen:No, sir.
D.A. Knowlton:Had you enough knowledge of the relations to know what the relations were between Miss Emma and her stepmother?
Dr. Bowen:From all I ever saw or heard directly myself I don't know anything but what they were. If you want to hearsay I can tell all there is in the papers.
D.A. Knowlton:Did you know of the relations between Miss Lizzie and the stepmother?
Dr. Bowen:I think the relations were I should judge by what I have seen seeing them together. Good deal. I should judge that the relations were harmonious and perfect and natural.
D.A. Knowlton:Did you ever hear Lizzie say anything about her stepmother?
Dr. Bowen:I don't think I ever did.
D.A. Knowlton:How did she address her? Do you remember?
Dr. Bowen:Well, I don't know. I'm sure I don't remember I never was in the house except on business affairs and connected with sickness.
D.A. Knowlton:Suppose Miss Lizzie and Miss Emma should say that the relations were not pleasant. Would you be surprised from what you've seen of it?
Dr. Bowen:If they should say so? I don't know anything to the contrary. I don't know anything in favor of it. I spoke from all I ever saw and heard directly myself.
D.A. Knowlton:Did Miss Lizzie tell you at any time where she was when this thing happened?
Dr. Bowen:The first time when an inquiry was made where Mrs. Borden was?
D.A. Knowlton:No. Did she tell you where she was herself when her father was killed?
Dr. Bowen:Yes. She said the first time or I won't say when very early that she was out of doors out to the barn had been out for a while.
D.A. Knowlton:Did she say how long she had been there?
Dr. Bowen:No, I don't think she did. I don't remember her saying how long I don't doubt but I asked the question where she was. She said she was out in the barn.
D.A. Knowlton:Didn't she say what she was doing there?
Dr. Bowen:She told me sometime. I don't know whether just then or a short time afterwards that she was looking after some irons or tin. The remarks she made the first time was that she was looking after some irons, not not flat irons. I mean irons. It might have been pieces of iron irons was the word used. Says I where was Bridget I don't know but I asked Bridget. Somebody said one of them said Bridget had been washing windows and she went upstairs and was upstairs when those questions were asked whether it was before I went down to telegraph or after I don't know I have the impression it was before.
D.A. Knowlton:When was this that Lizzie told you she was out around looking for iron?
Dr. Bowen:I've the impression it was very soon after I went over first.
D.A. Knowlton:Were you the first one to see Mrs. Borden?
Dr. Bowen:No, sir. I was not. I was sent out by Mrs. Churchill. Mr. Churchill says we have found Mrs. Borden. I says where is she? She is upstairs. Go right up.
D.A. Knowlton:Did you notice whether the front door was shut or not?
Dr. Bowen:If it had been open I think I should have known it.
D.A. Knowlton:You did not attempt to go in or out the front door. No, sir. You did not notice whether the front door was open or not.
Dr. Bowen:If it had been open. I think I should have noticed it. I don't think it was open.
D.A. Knowlton:Did Miss Lizzie have her meal sent up? You say she went to her room and stayed there?
Dr. Bowen:Yes. They got some toast. I think they went over to my house across the street and toasted some white bread for her. I don't think she ate it. I don't know about that, though. Perhaps they got some tea.
D.A. Knowlton:Was Dr. Abbott there?
Dr. Bowen:Dr. Abbott was there some time.
D.A. Knowlton:Not that day?
Dr. Bowen:Yes, that day.
D.A. Knowlton:I got a rumor that some comment was passed between you and him about the size or quantity of the amount of food that was sent up to her.
Dr. Bowen:Between Dr. Abbott and I? Never a word I would swear to that. Not a word. I did not know anything about it. Never anybody except my wife has mentioned the fact. I knew Alice I think came over and got some tea and white bread toast. Then I think my wife said she did not eat any of it or something to that effect. I accidentally heard of it. That is all.
D.A. Knowlton:Was Mr. Borden a man of quick temper?
Dr. Bowen:Well, no, I should not hardly think that he was a man of quick temper.
D.A. Knowlton:If they're going upstairs. Does not that front door if it is open does not shut off the stairs. You You cannot go upstairs when the doors open. You have to shut the door to get up the hall so narrow. Is that not so?
Dr. Bowen:Perhaps so.
D.A. Knowlton:Don't open back against the stairs?
Dr. Bowen:Perhaps it does. I did rather think it did. At any rate. You did not have to get rid of the front door to get upstairs. No, sir. If the door had been open, I should have seen it.
D.A. Knowlton:Your impression is that the door was shut?
Dr. Bowen:Yes, a very decided impression that the door was shut.
D.A. Knowlton:The Marshal reminds me to ask you don't you think on recollection the first man that got there after you did was officer Allen?
Dr. Bowen:I could not say it might have been.
D.A. Knowlton:Do you remember of saying to Mr. Allen, go and get the police as fast as you can?
Dr. Bowen:I said that to somebody, I was excited.
D.A. Knowlton:Have you been able to fix the time when you first went over to the house?
Dr. Bowen:I have changed my mind on the time. I had no means only I had no means only guess at first, but I deliberated and finding out as near as I can. It must have been I must have stopped my horse in front of my house not very far from 10 minutes past 11. That is about 10 minutes earlier than I thought at first. But on asking my boy he told me where I was at a certain time when the clock struck by thinking it over sufficiently. I think it was earlier than my first impression. My first impression was just an impression.
D.A. Knowlton:What was your first impression?
Dr. Bowen:Between 20 and 25? On further reflection on further reflection and judging from what my boy told me where I was and who we met at a certain time, I think it must have been quite a good deal earlier.
D.A. Knowlton:About what time do you now think it was?
Dr. Bowen:Not very far from 10 minutes past 11 It might have been five or 10 minutes either way when I drove up to the house and went in.
D.A. Knowlton:When you got the news and went in?
Dr. Bowen:Yes sir. I could not have stayed in there more than five minutes. I went directly to the house and down to the telegraph office and must have been back at half past 11.
D.A. Knowlton:You think you did stay in the Borden house five minutes?
Dr. Bowen:I don't believe it was more than five. I am only guessing.
D.A. Knowlton:Do you think it was more than two?
Dr. Bowen:It might not have been.
D.A. Knowlton:Who's was the first person you notified the thing.
Dr. Bowen:The first I spoke was in Baker's drugstore. Samuel Flint was in the store stood at the corner I told him Mr. Borden was murdered.
D.A. Knowlton:That was on your first visit downtown.
Dr. Bowen:I went directly from the telegraph office right to the store across the street.
D.A. Knowlton:You wrote a dispatch here?
Dr. Bowen:I wrote a dispatch and paid for it and sent it.
D.A. Knowlton:Have you looked at the dispatch to see what time it was?
Dr. Bowen:No, sir. I have not. I suppose the time would be on that. That would show exactly the time.
D.A. Knowlton:That was the first thing you did afterwards?
Dr. Bowen:I drove directly to the office from my house.
D.A. Knowlton:Had you just as leave go with Mr. Seaver over there and get out that dispatch and see if it marks the time?
Dr. Bowen:Yes, sir.
D.A. Knowlton:After writing the dispatch, you told Mr. Flint?
Dr. Bowen:Yes. I went directly across South Main Street. I was well acquainted with Mr. Flint, and I told him about it and then left him and got into the carriage and drove back again to the Borden house and went in a second time.
D.A. Knowlton:You did not notify any policeman?
Dr. Bowen:No, sir.
D.A. Knowlton:How soon after you got back the second time? Was it before the officer got there?
Dr. Bowen:I don't know. I could not say.
D.A. Knowlton:Where was you in the clock struck 11?
Dr. Bowen:My boy said that I was on South Main Street and we met a fire department team near the head of Union. We heard the clock strike.
D.A. Knowlton:You mean your own son?
Dr. Bowen:My driver.
D.A. Knowlton:You don't know anything about that message from Mrs. Borden to go out nursing somewhere that day?
Dr. Bowen:No, sir.
D.A. Knowlton:Now you figure from that it would take you something like 10 minutes to get down?
Dr. Bowen:No, it would not take over five
D.A. Knowlton:How do you get the 10 minutes?
Dr. Bowen:I leave a leeway of 10 minutes I did not mark it definitely.
Narrator:You've been listening to the inquest of Dr. Seabury Bowen from the Lizzie Borden trial in August of 1892. Played by David Loftus, the role of District Attorney Hosea Knowlton, played by Tim Dennis, the fainting Lizzie was played by Rena Sklar. Special thanks to KBOO radio host and historian Ken Jones from the popular podcast Jonesy, the show that brings you conversations with the most interesting people in the world of books, podcasts, radio, theater, music and humor guaranteed to entertain and enlighten. Catch Ken's show on KBOO.fm.org. That's "Jonesy" and thanks for writing us a review, Jonesy. And High Desert Spores in Milwaukee, Oregon. Your everything shop for the home mushroom grower. Check them out at HighDesertSpores.com. Podcast creator and influencer Courtney Kosak is a best friend to podcasters trying to grow and monetize their show with jobs, industry info, craft and marketing tips with their new show Podcast Bestie. It debuted at number one on Apple's New & Noteworthy. That's Podcast Bestie and thanks for being a Lizzie lover, Courtney. Trial testimony transcripts provided with permission by Stefani Koorey and LizzieAndrewBorden.com. Excerpts of letters written to D.A. Hosea Knowlton from The Knowlton Papers published by the Fall River Historical Society, HK 130 and HK 332 was performed by Cranky Pants T.D. Dennis. Music provided by Alex Gray... The Gargoyles of Notre Dame, produced by Kate Lavender. And I'm Don Sharp, and I'll see you in the next one.