The Inquest of Alice Russell w/ Lizzie Refusing a Search

This episode contains new information of Lizzie refusing a search and barring the officers from looking inside her room or bureau. Later this information would be disputed as tho it never happened. Read it for yourself in the book "The Jennings Journals, 1892" by the Fall River Historical Society. What was she hiding? Please leave a comment if you know.

Alice said she knew "it was cold blooded murder" implying it was Lizzie by the way that her Uncle, John V. Morse, looked directly into Lizzie's eyes and cried out, "How in the name of God does something like this happen, Lizzie?" when he became emotionally distraught upon hearing that the Bordens had been brutally slain in the few hours since they had all dined together at breakfast.

On further reflection I believe that John Morse was the one person that truly grieved over the loss of Andrew and Abby Borden as he found in Andrew a brotherly, best friend that he could confide in financially and share a sense of belonging as brother-in-laws, his Fall River family for over 42 years when his sister Sarah married Andrew. They were very much alike and shared many secrets which Emma would pry out of him by her letter writing.

The information of John Morse is known to me bc I have recorded the inquest of Charles Sawyer which also goes into more detail about the anguish that John Morse exhibited that day. Unlike Lizzie who was busy swooning.

Included is the expert testimony of Dr. Ed Wood, Professor of Chemistry at Harvard Medical School and his autopsy results of the stomach contents of Andrew and Abby Borden for prussic acid. Unfortunately, he says he would need at least a full two weeks to test for other poisons.

The Flat Iron Theory as a murder weapon is discussed in a letter written to the District Attorney in a letter.

Alice hints that she changed after she found a big ugly stick that scared her under the bed she slept in suggesting that Lizzie may have planted it there. But the FRPD did another thorough search during the funeral and they are the ones that put it back under the bed that made her take notice. I think she changed because of something else she saw or heard regarding Lizzie's behavior - was it because of the dress burning? Was it because she never saw Lizzie cry but only swoon?

Alice Russell played by Shaily Rae Smith
D.A. Hosea Knowlton played by Tim Dennis
HK006 - What Became of the Piece of Lead? by Brenda McGinnis
Irish Cop and Narration by DJ/Radio Star Jack Cone
Lizzie Barrs the Officers: Tanya Montoya as Lizzie Borden
Tim Dennis as Officer Harrington
Dr. Ed Wood played by David Loftus
John V. Morse & Flat Iron Theory by Jack Dabdoub
Lizzie's Axe by David Loftus

FATAL CHOICE opening music by eBunny
CANDY FACTORY by Roman Cano (Alice's theme)
SPOOKY WALTZ by Elena Naumova (Lizzie's new Axe)
SHIMMERING WATERS by Jon Wright (Flat Iron Theory)
HAPPY HALLOWEEN by Ahoami (Closing theme)

Trial transcripts provided with permission by Stefani Koorey
and the website LizzieAndrewBorden.com

Produced by Kate Lavender

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Transcript

00:00 - Officer from FRPD
Miss Lizzie. Miss Lizzie Borden, we wish to have a word with you. 

00:35 - Anonymous
Letter written in ink, Boston August 10, 1892. My dear sir, in reading very carefully the details in connection with the mysterious Borden murder, I have remarked the absence of any allusion to what has become of the piece of lead or the pieces cut from it that Miss Borden says she went into the barn to prepare, Anonymous. 

01:31 - Officer Harrington
An hour or more after the murder was discovered, two of the officers dispatched to the scene undertook to make a search of the house. They looked over the first floor to some extent and then started upstairs. Lizzie Borden became aware of their efforts and as they reached the door of her room she stepped boldly in front of the officers, exclaiming "you are not going into that room. We are going to search this house and your room, replied the officers. 

01:50 - Lizzie Borden
You have no right to enter my room and I tell you you shall not. You are not going into that room!

01:55 - Harrington
Said Lizzie, as he turned the key in the lock and stood determined in front of the door. There's nothing there. We desire to search that bureau and the closet in that room. You are not going into that room. Don't you interfere. 

02:05 - Lizzie
You have no right to enter my room and I tell you you shall not. There is nothing there. 

02:09 - Harrington
Don't you interfere. It will be better for you, Miss Borden, to let us make the search. There's nothing there. Lizzie there at became furious when are you going? And barred the officers progress, repeating with bold determination her declarations that they should not enter. 

02:23 - Lizzie
You have no right to enter my room and I tell you you shall not. There's nothing there. You have no right. 

02:28 - Harington
Her boldness up front astonished the officers, so that they did not really know whether they had the authority or not to prosecute the search. Finally, they became convinced that they had made an unauthorized move and they withdrew without attempting to continue the search through the house. Lizzie had vanquished the authorities in the first encounter and this occurrence was not known to the Marshal until he was informed late last night by a reporter. Boston Globe, August 6, 1892. 

02:56 - Music Candy Factory
 

03:24 - Narrator 2
And now the inquest of Alice Russell, played by Shaley Rae Smith and Tim Dennis as District Attorney Hosea Knowlton. 

03:47 - D.A. Hosea Knowlton
What is your name? 

03:49 - Alice Russell
Alice M Russell. 

03:50 - Knowlton
Where do you live? 

03:52 - Alice
33 Borden Street. 

03:54 - Knowlton
How far is that from the Borden House? 

03:56 - Alice
It is the next square. 

03:58 - Knowlton
Between Second and Main Streets?

04:00 - Alice
Yes, sir, Borden Street is the next street. 

04:03 - Knowlton
You were well acquainted with the Borden family. All of them?

04:06 - Alice
Yes, sir. 

04:07 - Knowlton
Was it at your house Miss Lizzie was visiting the night before. 

04:10 - Alice
Yes, sir . 

04:11 - Knowlton
She spent the evening there? 

04:12 - Alice
Yes, sir. 

04:13 - Knowlton
When did she go home? 

04:14 - Alice
I think about nine o'clock. It may have been five minutes before or after. 

04:20 - Knowlton
Was that quite a frequent thing for her to visit you? 

04:23 - Alice
She has done so more this summer because she has not had quite so much outside work, but we have always visited. Been friends. 

04:31 - Knowlton
Have you visited there a great deal?

04:34 - Alice
Yes, sometimes perhaps I would go in quite often and then again quite a spell, I would not go. 

04:40 - Knowlton
When you went in, did you see the whole family, or Miss Lizzie or Emma? 

04:45 - Alice
I saw the girls mostly. 

04:47 - Knowlton
Your acquaintance was mostly with the daughters?

04:50 - Alice
Yes, sir. 

04:51 - Knowlton
Not so much with the old people?

04:53 - Alice
No sir. 

04:54 - Knowlton
Where did you usually see them? 

04:56 - Alice
Upstairs what they used for a sitting room usually. 

05:00 - Knowlton
Which room was that? 

05:01 - Alice
What they call the guest chamber. 

05:03 - Knowlton
It was used as a sitting room. 

05:05 - Alice
Generally for them. 

05:07 - Knowlton
Who used that as a sitting room? 

05:09 - Alice
The two girls. 

05:11 - Knowlton
Was that where they usually sat when they were at home? 

05:13 - Alice
I think so. 

05:14 - Knowlton
That is as far as you know. 

05:16 - Alice
So far as I know. 

05:18 - Knowlton
Do you recollect the last time you visited them? 

05:20 - Alice
The last time I visited them or visited there?

05:24 - Knowlton
Either one. 

05:25 - Alice
I went in there, I'm sure, once after Emma had gone to Fairhaven. 

05:30 - Knowlton
Who are you more particularly intimate with? Emma or Lizzie, or both? 

05:36 - Alice
I don't think there was very much difference. 

05:38 - Knowlton
What was the first that you saw, or observed or heard of this tragedy? 

05:42 - Alice
I think it was about a quarter past eleven when I saw Bridget coming up the steps and my work is so I can see anyone coming up the steps where I was at work. I knew there was trouble because Lizzie told me Mr and Mrs Borden were sick the night before. Very sick. So the first impression I got was that somebody was sick there. 

06:06 - Knowlton
She told you Tuesday night they were sick?

06:09 - Alice
Yes, sir. I stepped to the door and I says what is it, Bridget? Are they worse or Maggie? She says yes I don't know but what? Mr Borden is dead. I don't know whether she said come over. I don't remember what she said. I said I will come right over as soon as I change my dress, which I did. 

06:29 - Knowlton
She did not tell you how he had been killed or anything of that sort?

06:33 - Alice
She did not, no. 

06:35 - Knowlton
She said what?

06:36 - Alice
She says he is worse. I don't know but what? Mr Borden is dead. 

06:41 - Knowlton
You did not take much time to change your dress. 

06:43 - Alice
No, sir, I did not. 

06:45 - Knowlton
You went over as quickly as you could. 

06:47 - Alice
Yes, sir. 

06:48 - Knowlton
When you got there. Who did you find there? 

06:50 - Alice
I have a very confused idea. I met Lizzie at the same time. There was somebody else there who I don't know. 

06:57 - Knowlton
Mrs Churchill. 

06:59 - Alice
I think so. 

07:00 - Knowlton
Where did you meet Miss Lizzie? 

07:02 - Alice
I think about the threshold of the kitchen door where the screen door is. No, I think the kitchen door. 

07:09 - Knowlton
From the hall into the kitchen. 

07:11 - Alice
I think so. 

07:12 - Knowlton
You found the screen door unfastened and went right in. 

07:15 - Alice
Yes. 

07:16 - Knowlton
Did Maggie go back with you? 

07:17 - Alice
No, she went ahead of me. 

07:19 - Knowlton
What was said and done when you got there as well as you remember it. 

07:23 - Alice
I have a very confused idea of it. I have tried my best to have it clear. I met Lizzie and I said sit right down here, Lizzie, in the kitchen, and she sat down. I don't seem to remember what she said or done, except she says will somebody find Mrs Borden? She seemed to be very much overcome. 

07:43 - Knowlton
Did she tell you anything about where to look for her? 

07:46 - Alice
No, sir. Then I remember of Maggie and Mrs Churchill starting and Maggie says oh, I can't go through that room. Dr Bowen says get me a sheet and I will cover Mr Borden over. They started and went after that. Then when they came down I remember Mrs Churchill saying oh, Mrs Borden, whatever she said or did gave me that impression that she had gone too. I did not know either of them were murdered. I supposed it was from the impression of the poison that I had had in my mind. 

08:21 - Knowlton
When did you first learn that they were murdered? 

08:23 - Alice
I got Lizzie into the dining room, onto the dining room lounge and we were there I don't know how long when her uncle came in. 

08:31 - Knowlton
That is Morse. 

08:32 - Alice
Yes, sir, and something he said about there being murdered and looked up to her. 

08:38 - John Morse
What kind of God have we got that will permit a deed like this to be done?

08:42 - Alice
Then it dawned on my mind that it was cold blooded murder. That is the first idea that it was murder. 

08:51 - John Morse
How, in the name of God, does something like this happen, Lizzie? 

08:55 - Knowlton
You did not see Morse until he got into the room where Lizzie was? 

08:58 - Alice
No, I had not seen Mr Morse for years before. 

09:02 - Knowlton
That room where you were with Lizzie was what room? 

09:06 - Alice
The dining room. The first room I was in was the kitchen. 

09:09 - Knowlton
The sitting room was where the murdered man was. 

09:12 - Alice
Yes, sir. 

09:13 - Knowlton
Who was with you and with Lizzie? 

09:15 - Alice
In the dining room? I don't think there was anyone no one in the dining room, except when Mr Morse came in. 

09:21 - Knowlton
What did you find Lizzie's appearance and condition to be when you got there? 

09:26 - Alice
Dazed. 

09:27 - Knowlton
I suppose she made no talk at all, excepting what you have said. 

09:31 - Alice
I don't know what she said. She said something. I says Lizzie, don't talk. 

09:36 - Narrator Jack Cone
Father is dead. Father is dead was all she could say as she was being soothed by the women attending her. Lizzie has passed through almost all stages of fright and grief and was at that dull and dangerous state of semi-unconsciousness where she gives no sign of sorrow but simply lies motionless on her pillow with her eyes closed. Boston Herald, August 5, 1892. 

09:58 - Knowlton
When you found her, she was in the kitchen. You say yes, sir. She went with you then into the dining room. 

10:04 - Alice
Yes, sir. 

10:05 - Knowlton
How long did you remain there with her? Remain where in the dining room. 

10:09 - Alice
I haven't any idea where then? I don't know whether I suggested or who suggested her going upstairs, but I know she went upstairs. 

10:18 - Knowlton
Did you go up with her? 

10:20 - Alice
I don't remember that. 

10:21 - Knowlton
Were you upstairs. 

10:23 - Alice
Yes, sir, I was up there. I think if I did not go with her, I must have been there very soon after did she go straight to her room, so far as you remember. Yes, sir, I don't know what I was doing, but I came into the room and found her fastening a pink wrapper on. 

10:41 - Knowlton
Did she change her shoes or stocking? 

10:43 - Alice
No, sir, she could not have done that. I was not out of the room long enough. 

10:47 - Knowlton
Did you remain there with her? Where and how long? How long did you remain there with her in her room after she got to her room? 

10:55 - Alice
I don't know. I think she sent me down. I don't remember. I can't tell it. I know she made this remark when she said it. I don't know something about an undertaker. She says, "if they have to have an undertaker, as I suppose they will have, Windwood. 

11:15 - Knowlton
Did you stay until supper time or anything like it? 

11:17 - Alice
What do you mean in the room? I was in and out of the room all afternoon. 

11:22 - Knowlton
She remained in the room?

11:24 - Alice
Yes, so far as I know. 

11:26 - Knowlton
When you did finally go home and leave the house, somewhere near supper time? 

11:31 - Alice
No, I don't think so. I went home near six, I don't know. It seems to me it was daylight, because I remember somebody stepping up to me and walking over home with me. 

11:43 - Knowlton
You don't mean the next morning?

11:45 - Alice
No, I remember one of my old friends walking down with me and my excusing myself and going upstairs. 

11:51 - Knowlton
It must have been before dark. Had Emma got there before you went home?

11:56 - Alice
Oh yes. 

11:57 - Knowlton
Who did you leave Miss Lizzie with? 

11:59 - Alice
What do you mean in the house? 

12:02 - Knowlton
She remained in a room, as I understood you. 

12:04 - Alice
Yes, sir, I don't know who I left her with, but I think Mrs Holmes and Emma. 

12:09 - Knowlton
Mrs Charles J Holmes?

12:11 - Alice
Yes, sir, they were there. We intended, some of us, not to leave Lizzie. We knew the state she was in. When one was out

12:20 - Alice
the other made a point to be there, which was which, I don't know. At any time did you have any talk with the servant girl that you recollect? 

12:29 - Alice
I don't remember of ever saying a word to her or of hearing her say anything. No, sir, I did not hear Maggie talk much, and I have not at any other time. 

12:38 - Knowlton
Did you hear Mr Morse say anything about it at any time that day? 

12:42 - Alice
I don't remember of anything. There might have been general talk. I don't remember of anything. 

12:48 - Knowlton
Do you remember of anything that Lizzie said about it? That remains in your memory. 

12:52 - Alice 
No, I have not asked her, but one question all through it. 

12:57 - Knowlton
Will you tell me what that is? 

12:58 - Alice
Yes, sir, I asked her what she went to the barn to do. She says my screen and window needed fixing. She gave me to understand they did not come together right or something. I was ironing handkerchiefs and my flat iron was not hot and I thought I would go and get that while I was waiting. 

13:16 - Knowlton
What did she say she went to get?

13:17 - Alice
A piece of tin or iron to fix the screen. I found the handkerchiefs part ironed and part damp. I took the damp ones and shook them out. 

13:27 - Knowlton
Did you find the ironing board? 

13:29 - Alice
I don't remember seeing it. A little ironing board? I don't remember it. 

13:33 - Knowlton
When did she tell you of the piece of tin for the screen? 

13:36 - Alice
The first day. I remember asking her that question and her answering me. 

13:42 - Knowlton
I suppose you would heard from somebody that she was at the barn. 

13:45 - Alice
Yes. 

13:46 - Jack Cone, Narrator 
Miss Borden, the district attorney learned, has made three radical changes in her story since the original was told. One discrepancy pertains to her whereabouts at the time of the murder. She first said she was at the water closet in the barn, then she was in the loft searching for lead. Then she was in both places. 

14:05 - Knowlton
Do you remember where you heard that from?

14:07 - Alice
I think I heard her say it. I think somebody asked her in the kitchen before we went out. And she said she was in the barn? 

14:15 - Knowlton
That she went to the barn. A piece of tin for the screen. For which window? 

14:19 - Alice 
 A piece of tin or iron. She says you know, there is everything up there and I went to see if I could not get a piece of tin or iron to fix it, the screen or the window. I don't know which she was going to fix. 

14:32 - Knowlton
Do you recollect anything else that she said? 

14:34 - Alice
I can't, unless something was asked me, it might come to me. Then, I can't, as I'm trying to tell you. 

14:43 - Knowlton
And now we bring you the expert testimony of Dr Edward Wood, Professor of Chemistry at Harvard Medical School, on the autopsy analysis of the stomach contents of Andrew and Abby Borden for Prussic Acid, otherwise known as HK337. 

15:02 - Dr. Edward Wood
Harvard Medical School Chemical Laboratory, Pocasset, August 23, 1892. My dear Mr Knowlton, I received your letter this PM on my return from Boston. I have completed today a very careful analysis of both stomachs for Prussic Acid, but none is present. Had death been due to that poison, I should have found it, because the stomachs have been tightly enclosed in glass bottles. Moreover, I see no reason for suspecting that Mr or Mrs Borden were dead before the blows were inflicted on their heads. 

15:33
Mrs Borden's stomach contained nearly 11 ounces of nearly solid food, consisting chiefly of meat and bread, partly in solid lumps. There was also considerable fat, broth and butter and some vegetable pulp cells, potato or fruit such as apple, and a few shreds of vegetable tissue, possibly vegetables. In the broth or apple skin I saw one large flake which looked like the skin of a red apple. The quantity of bread and meat shows that digestion was in the early stage at the time of death. Mr Borden's stomach contained about 8 ounces of very liquid contents, almost all water, with but little solid matter which consisted chiefly of vegetable pulp cells and some fat. There were only very few fibers of meat and few starch granules, bread remaining in the stomach. If possible, it would be also a number of small flakes of vegetable cell. If possible it would be well to ascertain whether he ate an apple while uptown or not. There were also a number of small flakes of vegetable cells like those of an apple or pear skin in his stomach. The small quantity of solid food in his stomach shows digestion in his case was far advanced, say 3 to 4 hours if digestion went on normally. 

16:47
The stomachs of both Mr and Mrs Borden were perfectly healthy in appearance and showed no evidence of the action of any poison. The stomachs were neither congested nor irritated. So they do not consider it necessary for the purpose of your preliminary hearing to make an analysis to prove the absence of ordinary poisons. Prussic acid is the only ordinary poison which would kill immediately, within 15 minutes and leave no marks, either congestion or irritation, except in very rare cases and under very rare circumstances. If an indictment should be found, it will then be time enough to prove the absence of the other poisons. Such an analysis would require two or three weeks steady work. I will come to Fall River on Saturday, reaching there at 10, 11 am, unless I hear from you to come Friday or Monday. I would like to know the exact ingredients of the mutton broth which they had for breakfast. Very sincerely yours, Edward S Wood. 

17:44 - Knowlton
I do not like to ask this question, but I feel obliged to. Did you see enough to notice what the relations were between Miss Lizzie and her mother? 

17:53 - Alice
I, in all my acquaintance, which is 10 years, sure, and most of that time has been part of the time, quite intimate. I never yet heard any wrangling in the family. I have got to answer the question and I will say I don't think they were congenial. 

18:11 - Knowlton
What gave you the impression they were not congenial? 

18:14 - Alice
Because their tastes differed in every way. One liked one thing and the other liked another. 

18:21 - Knowlton
Were they together very much. 

18:23 - Alice
I don't think they were very much. 

18:25 - Knowlton
I suppose what you say about Lizzie is also true of Emma. 

18:28 - Alice
About the same. It was not always the same, but it would be hard work to tell. 

18:33 - Knowlton
I judged by your saying they had a sitting room upstairs. 

18:36 - Alice
They sat up there a great deal. 

18:38 - Knowlton
Their stepmother did not sit up there with them. 

18:40 - Alice
I don't think so. 

18:42 - Knowlton
Did you ever hear Lizzie speak of any trouble she had had with her mother? 

18:45 - Alice
Yes, I suppose I have. I have heard her say that Mrs Borden thought so, and so the same as any family. 

18:52 - Knowlton
Did she express to you ever that she regarded her mother as untruthful or deceitful? 

18:58 - Alice
I don't think she ever did. 

19:00 - Knowlton
Did she ever allude particularly to any trouble she ever had with her mother? 

19:04 - Alice
No sir. 

19:05 - Knowlton
Did she ever tell you what the trouble was? 

19:07 - Alice
Nothing further than she was a stepmother, the whole thing. As far as I could see that an own mother might have had more influence over the father, it was the father more than the mother. 

19:19 - Knowlton
What do you mean? 

19:20 - Alice
The father was the head of the house. They had to do as he thought Mrs Borden did not control the house. The whole summing up of it was that. Were her relations with her father cordial? So far as I know, I never saw anything different. 

19:35 - Knowlton
Were they congenial?

19:37 - Alice
I should not suppose they would be knowing their different natures. 

19:41 - Knowlton
The different nature of the father and mother and Lizzie. 

19:44 - Alice
Yes, each of them. 

19:46 - Knowlton
What was the difference in their natures? 

19:48 - Alice
Mr Borden was a plain living man with rigid ideas and very set. They were young girls. He had earned his money and he did not care for the things that young women in their position naturally would, and he looked upon those things. I don't know just how to put it. 

20:06 - Knowlton
He did not appreciate girls. 

20:08 - Alice
No, I don't think he did. 

20:10 - Knowlton
Their ideas were more modern than his with regard to the way of living, do you mean? 

20:14 - Alice
Yes, sir. 

20:15 - Knowlton 
How did you get this from the girl's talk or what you observed? 

20:19 - Alice
From what I observed, everybody knew what Andrew Borden's ideas were. He was a very plain living man. He did not care for anything different. It always seemed to me as if he did not see why they should care for anything different. 

20:34 - Knowlton
Did they complain about it? 

20:36 - Alice
Yes, they used to think it ought to be different. There was no reason why it should not be. They used to think it might be different. 

20:43 - Knowlton
Lizzie or Emma or both. 

20:45 - Alice
Both. 

20:45 - Knowlton
There never was any wrangling between them?

20:48 - Alice
No, I never heard any. They had quite refined ideas and they would like to have been cultured girls and would like to have had different advantages, and it would be natural for girls to express themselves that way. I think it would have been very unnatural if they had not. 

21:06 - Knowlton
He did not give them the advantages of education that they thought they ought to have had. 

21:11 - Alice
I don't know as it is just that, but people cannot go and do and have unless they have ample means to do it. 

21:20 - Host
We pause this interview for a quick letter written to prosecutor Hosea Knowlton about an unusual murder weapon. 

21:28 - The Observer
Cooley Hotel, Springfield, Massachusetts, District Attorney Knowlton, New Bedford, Massachusetts. Dear sir, you may remember that I wrote you from here several months ago suggesting the Flatiron theory as a probable weapon in the Borden murders, if done by Lizzie. By an odd coincidence, I am here again to hear the report of the verdict not guilty, for the reason that you could not make any connection of the Hatchet or Axe theory either with Miss Lizzie or with the wounds. Miss Lizzie was inseparably connected with the Flatirons by her own words or statement at different times and by Bridget and Miss Alice Russell. When asked on the stand, what else did you see in the cupboard besides a part of the old dress? Answered Flatirons. Flatirons all but spoke to you in this case, but having ears. You did not hear, and justice is buried with the old people. 

22:23
It only remained for you to connect the Flatirons with the wounds to make Lizzie's conviction certain. The testimony of these doctors, the nature of the wounds, the different dimensions of the cuts, the one-sided bevels, the breaking in of the skull, the number of blows, a small percentage of which went through the triangular cut, etc. etc. Although this testimony was given by the medical men laboring under the delusion of the Hatchet theory and trying to confirm it satisfies me that if the Flatiron theory had been given due consideration, the veil would have been lifted from the mystery. Of course it is too late now, although there is probably evidence of blood on a Flatiron that a chemist could find around the Borden house now, and until it is established, there is danger of somebody else being hung for those murders, some crank by confession or other person by force of circumstances, to develop. Yours, truly. Observer.

23:24 - Knowlton
This is an inquiry in which every person is interested to get at the bottom facts. Is there any other I have not asked you about, which you know is material to the question, that you have not stated? Can you tell me anything else concerning this matter that you have not already done? It is as much your duty to tell as it is mine to ask. 

24:12 - Alice
Well, I am in a much better condition to tell it than I have been. 

24:16 - Knowlton
That is one reason why I postponed it as long as I could. Is there any other fact that you can tell me that you have not told me? 

24:23 - Alice
The morning of the funeral I went out to do some errands. When I came back my hair was tumbled and I took my dress waste off and combed my hair. When I had gotten through I put my waste on again and had nearly finished it and I turned and I saw something under the bed that frightened me almost to pieces. 

24:44 - Knowlton
You were sleeping in the house. 

24:46 - Alice
Yes, sir. 

24:47 - Knowlton
That big stick. 

24:48 - Alice
Yes, sir. 

24:50 - Jack Cone, Narrator
It's just a big ugly stick, Alice.  It is the one you gave to the Marshal, the round whittled stick?

24:56 - Alice
Yes, sir. 

24:57 - Knowlton
Had you been sleeping in the house every night? You slept there that night. 

25:00 - Alice
Yes, sir, that is what frightened me so much. It was in my room. 

25:05 - Knowlton
That was the room Mr and Mrs Borden occupied. 

25:09 - Alice
Yes, sir, I occupied that when I was there. 

25:12 - Knowlton
When you went into the daughter's room, did you have to go downstairs and come up? 

25:16 - Alice
You don't have to if the other side was unlocked. 

25:19 - Knowlton
After the tragedy was it unlocked so you could go through?

25:22 - Alice
Yes, sir. 

25:23 - Knowlton
It was open then. 

25:24 - Alice
Yes, sir. 

25:25 - Knowlton
After the tragedy, the door was unlocked?

25:28 - Alice
Yes, sir. 

25:29 - Knowlton
So when you wanted to go to Lizzie or Emma's, you went in through?

25:32 - Alice
Yes, sir. 

25:33 - Knowlton
When did you first see that stick? 

25:35 - Alice
I think between nine and ten. I don't think I could have been gone longer than that. 

25:40 - Knowlton
It was not while you were at the funeral?

25:43 - Alice
No, sir, when I came back, my clothes were there. My dress was there. I went into this room. I had occupied to change my dress and turned when I saw it. 

25:52 - Knowlton
Where was it exactly? 

25:54 - Alice
At the head of the bed. 

25:55 - Knowlton
Under? 

25:56 - Alice
Yes, sir, how much in sight? So that I saw it as I turned. 

26:00 - Knowlton
Had it been there before?

26:02 - Alice
I had not seen it before. 

26:03 - Knowlton
Had you done what they say women do?

26:07 - Alice
No, I had not done that. 

26:10 - Knowlton
Had not looked under the bed?

26:12 - Alice
No sir. 

26:13 - Knowlton
So it may have been under the bed all the time?

26:15 - Alice
Yes, I think in my frightened condition, as I look at it now, it might have been there Then. I was terribly alarmed because I felt as if in some way it implicated me. 

26:26 - Knowlton
As much as it implicated me just about. 

26:29 - Alice
Yes, as I look at it now. 

26:31 - Knowlton
When you saw it, it was plainly visible?

26:33 - Alice
Yes, I saw the end of it. 

26:36 - Knowlton
How much was it out? Indicate by your fan. 

26:38 - Alice
It was not out from under the bed at all. I could see a little ways under the bed. 

26:43 - Knowlton
It had no flap hanging down, a modern French bedstead? 

26:47 - Alice
It was not a French bedstead. It had no valence. 

26:50 - Knowlton
You would have been likely to have seen it before then if it had been in the same place?

26:54 - Alice
I thought so. 

26:55 - Knowlton
Did you ever find out what it was? 

26:58 - Alice
I think it was something that her father had kept in the house. 

27:02 - Knowlton
Who told you that? 

27:04 - Alice
I told it to Detective Hanscomb and he asked Emma, I don't think the girl knew anything about that I found it. 

27:10 - Narrator
But wait there's more. 

27:13 - Officer Phil Harrington
Fall River, September 8th 1892, to HM Knowlton Esquire. Dear sir, Not knowing Marshall Hilliard's whereabouts, I forward this to you. The Fall River Daily Globe has another story of a letter sent by Lizzie Borden to her friends at Marion. They claim that, without any introduction to or comment upon, the following sentence appears quote: "When I come I will chop all the wood, for I have a new, sharper axe." To this I would not pay much attention, but my informant told me he thought the globe could and would produce the letter tomorrow or in a few days. A representative of Fall River Globe is to call on you and state the facts of the above. Possibly, Mr Thurston or Mr Porter, Yours, etc. Officer Phil Harrington. 

27:58 - Knowlton
Is there any other fact that has to do with this matter that you can tell us that you can think of? My inquiry was not directed to or at or against anybody or in favor of anybody. 

28:10 - Alice
I don't know of anything. 

28:11 - Knowlton
What sort of a dress was it Miss Lizzie had on before she changed it? 

28:18 - Alice
I don't know, I have not any idea. 

28:21 - Knowlton
Well, you must have been badly flustered. 

28:23 - Alice
Perhaps it does seem so to you. I can tell you any other time. I have been out with the girls, sometimes a whole season, and I could not tell you what kind of hats they wore. That was not as strange as it would seem to some people. I do not observe and I care very little about such things. 

28:42 - Knowlton
You know, she changed her dress and put on a pink wrapper?

28:45 - Alice
Yes, sir. 

28:46 - Knowlton
Not whether the dress she had on before that was darker light?

28:50 - Alice
I haven't any idea. I can't recollect a thing. 

28:54 - Knowlton
Do you remember whether the dress she had on was all one piece or a two-part dress? 

28:58 - Alice
No, I can't. 

29:00 - Knowlton
A different skirt or different waist? No, I can't. 

29:04 - Alice
You spent the night there. Yes, sir. 

29:06 - Knowlton
Where did you sleep that night? 

29:08 - Alice
The first two nights I slept in what was Mr and Mrs Borden's room. The next two nights I slept in what was Emma's room. 

29:14 - Knowlton
After you found that stick, you changed?

29:17 - Alice
No, that did not make me change. 

29:19 - Knowlton
You did change after that. 

29:21 - Alice
Yes, Saturday I found the stick. 

29:24 - Knowlton
Did you have occasion to go downstairs with Miss Lizzie that night? 

29:27 - Alice
Yes, sir. 

29:28 - Knowlton
The first night?

29:29 - Alice
Yes, sir. 

29:30 - Knowlton
For some purpose connected with her sickness?

29:32 - Alice
It was just wash water, water we had been using for bathing that afternoon. She started to get it out of the wash bowls and I said I will go down with that. She says, "I will go if you will go and hold the lamp. I went down with her and she emptied it. Then she went into the laundry and rinsed out the pail. She opened the door and held the lamp. 

29:51 - Knowlton
Where was this? 

29:52 - Alice
Down cellar. 

29:54 - Knowlton
What time of night was that? Was it in the night? 

29:56 - Alice
Oh no, before we had gone to bed. 

30:00 - Knowlton
How did you get downstairs that time, do you remember? 

30:03 - Alice
We came through the sitting room then, because the bodies had been put into the dining room. 

30:07 - Knowlton
The bodies had been moved then?

30:09 - Alice
Yes, sir. 

30:10 - Knowlton
It was before you had gone to bed?

30:12 - Alice
Yes, sir. 

30:13 - Knowlton
You were both dressed?

30:14 - Alice
Yes, sir, so far as I can remember, I was anyway, and I think she was. 

30:20 - Knowlton
Do you know what became of the dress that she did take off? 

30:23 - Alice
I supposed that she hung it up in the wardrobe. 

30:26 - Knowlton
You did not notice? 

30:27 - Alice
No, sir, when I came up, her dress was fastened and she was tying the ribbon. 

30:32 - Knowlton
She had already changed the dress?

30:34 - Alice
Yes, they kept coming and interviewing and I suppose she wanted to get into a respectable appearance. 

31:00 - Don Sharp, Narrator 2 
Well, there you have it, Lizzie lovers, you've been listening to the inquest of Alice Russell. Alice was not asked about the burning of the dress but we've got that covered with her pre-grand jury interview In an upcoming episode. Consider subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Lizzie Borden Audio's YouTube channel so you don't miss it. And if you're wondering about the outburst of John Vinnicum Morse upon entering the house and learning of the murders, yes, that really happened. According to the inquest of Charles Sawyer, John Morse was emotionally distraught upon learning of the murders and caused quite a scene played by Jack Dabdoub, introductory song called Fatal Choice, by eBunny with Brenda McGinnis asking what became of the piece of lead from HK066 Alice's theme by Roman Cano called Candy Factory, Shaily Rae Smith as Alice Russell, Tim Dennis as the salty district attorney, Hosea Knowlton, Irish police officer and other narration played by radio and DJ star Jack Cone. 

32:11
Lizzie bars the officers was from an article in the Boston Globe August 6, 1892, from the book the unpublished files of Lizzie Borden's defense attorney, Andrew Jackson Jennings, Tonya Montoya as Lizzie Borden and Tim Dennis as Officer Harrington. I bet you never heard that scene before. Not many people knew until now that Lizzie actually refused to allow the officers to search through her bedroom dresser on the first attempt, according to the documentation in the Jennings Journals from the Fall River Historical Society. Order your copy online. Dr Wood was played by David Loftus. HK337 on Flatiron Theory written to 

32:58
Hosea Knowlton before or during the trial, as it was never dated. Played by Jack Dabdoub from Staten Island, and Lizzie chopped wood. HK065 with her new, sharper axe, selected from the Knowlton Papers published by the Fall River Historical Society, with music by Elena Nemova called Spooky Waltz played by David Loftus. Transcriptions of the trial testimony provided by Stefani Koorey and the website LizzieAndrewBorden.com, Podcast creator and writer, Courtney Kocak has a new podcast called "The Bleeders, designed for writers that want to write and get published. 

33:42
Courtney interviews some of the top people in the industry, like authors, agents and marketers, on how to write and sell your book. She's got you covered with a podcast, a Sub-stack and a YouTube video. We can't get enough of Courtney, and neither will you. That's the Bleeders, a show for writers that want to learn all the secret hacks that attract eyeballs to your writing. Follow Courtney Kocak on X for the deals and steals that helped her get her show to number one on Apple Podcasts. And thanks for being a Lizzie lover Courtney cux, we love you back. 

34:17
And don't forget to listen to Jonesy on KBOO.fm.org a show about the most interesting people in the world that's entertaining and informative. Check out his interview with my personal friend and neighbor, music producer John Neff. That's Jonesy, and thanks for being a Lizzie lover, Jonesy. Outro music by Ahomi from Toontanks. Royalty-free music called Happy Halloween, produced by Kate Lavender. Support the show by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or subscribing to Lizzie Borden Audio on YouTube. Help us get to 500 subscribers. Thank you, I'm Dodge Sharp and I'll see you in the next one Lizzie lovers, don't forget to spread a little kindness out there.