Financial Freedom (Property Investment Strategies) | James Nelis #579

Mentioned On Today's Show:
🤝Planning for Retirement and Financial Independence
🤝 Wealth Creation Through Property Investment
🤝 Building High-Performing Team Culture

Ever wondered how everyday Australians can achieve financial freedom through property investment? In our latest episode, James Nelis, a successful buyer's agent in Australia, shares his compelling journey from purchasing his first property to mastering the art of strategic property investment. Learn from his initial mistakes with poorly managed loans and financial structures, and discover how his self-education led him to empower others with practical strategies for financial independence. James doesn't just share financial wisdom; he brings a refreshing perspective that property investment isn't just for the wealthy, but accessible for individuals with modest incomes.

We also dissect the significance of setting clear retirement goals and financial independence, offering you actionable steps to accumulate assets and adjust plans based on performance. James provides an eye-opening example of how a household with a $150K income can secure a passive income of $80,000 to $100,000 annually by age 65. He emphasizes the importance of building a knowledgeable team, highlighting how leveraging expertise from financial planners, mortgage brokers, and buyer's agents can streamline your journey toward a comfortable retirement.

Beyond financial strategies, James delves into the transformative power of culture and trust within teams, sharing valuable lessons from his semi-professional AFL career and the Hornet Program's impact on his footy club. This episode is packed with insights on wealth creation, personal growth, and the parallels between sports dedication and financial planning.

Don’t miss this chance to gain inspiration and practical advice from James Nellis—follow his journey on social media and explore more at www.jamesnelis.com.au

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:10

James, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2: 1:12

Hey Lachie, thanks for having me mate.

Speaker 1: 1:13

Who would have thought all these years ago, when we first connected, we would be sitting here about to dive into some really cool topics?

Speaker 2: 1:22

Yeah, I know, I guess listening to the pod for a while it's like, oh yeah, it's a few things covering. You don't sort of think about sort of you being on the other side of the headphones and stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 1:39

And yeah, sort of doing a few podcasts personally and then featuring on them, it's sort of it's a little bit surreal in a way, so it's pretty cool. Yeah, well, dude, obviously, um, since we've connected, I've really loved you have a really high standard with how you conduct yourself and I've always been impressed by that when we catch up and have conversations. And obviously over the last couple of since you've been part of the academy, and you've branched out on your own in business.

Speaker 1: 1:58

I've got to watch and witness that a lot more and see it be put into practice, and it's really something that I am looking forward to diving into around where it came from, around leadership, the standards. I'm sure you've had a lot of setbacks along the way, which we'll dive into, and then also diving into your new career. Now I am really interested with people like yourself who have a great career already, but there's this little itch that needs to be scratched where you want to go see what it's like to start your own business and the benefits that can come with that. Obviously, it comes with a bag of stresses and uncertainty, etc. But I'm very excited to dive into that. But, dude, I wanted to read from your Instagram and then we'll work backwards. But at the moment, since your transition into business, helping Australians reach their financial dreams that wasn't always an aspiration, but it now is. How did we get here? Give us the story.

Speaker 2: 2:54

Yeah. So I think what I'm sort of doing now is working in the real estate space in Australia and working, I guess, on a non-traditional side of real estate in Australia. I know in the States it's quite popular. But yeah, working as a buyer's agent helping everyday Australians purchase property, and I sort of see that or have seen it and experienced it myself as a buyer's agent, helping everyday Australians purchase property, and I sort of see that or have seen it and experienced it myself as a need to one educate people and something that we're all, I guess, wanting is wealth creation and financial stability, and I'm a strong believer in that in property. So, yeah, I'm now working and growing a business in that space and helping people achieve their dreams, like I have and am doing in the property space.

Speaker 1: 3:39

When did you first sort of feel like this was the industry for you?

Speaker 2: 3:44

I think it was in 2020 when, I guess, a lot of Australian property really started to boom.

Speaker 2: 3:52

I had originally or at the time, had already had a property for six years.

Speaker 2: 3:55

So I purchased a house about two kilometers around the corner from mom and dad 10 years ago in 2014.

Speaker 2: 4:03

And I lived in that for a couple of years and I'd moved out and turned that into an investment and I always wanted to do that and I sort of I got connected with a few people who were successful property investors and they sort of said to me they a few people who were successful property investors and they sort of said to me they're like, mate, like you've got this property, do you know what you can actually do with it?

Speaker 2: 4:20

Do you know that you can release equity? Do you know that you can use that equity to purchase additional properties, build up a bit of a portfolio, pay down your debt and create yourself a passive income to give yourself the ability to either put your kids through private school, retire early flexibility, financial freedom and I sort of didn't really know. So I sort of spent the next 12 to 18 months going on this education journey, listening to podcasts, reading books, and I sort of found that there was this big uneducation piece in Australia about wealth creation and what you can actually do with property and during that period I found out I'd made an absolute mess of my first investment property and went through this journey to fix it got put in contact with a few other people You're not sharing with that mess, yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:14

So what I realized and a key part of property investing and wealth creation in Australia through property is having really good financial structures and being able to access finance through lending and through banks. And you need a really good structure and it needs to be done properly and done well early and sadly, mine wasn't. The mortgage broker that I used at the time just did a loan that was attached to my dad as a parental guarantee, but he also actually had my dad in 50-50 ownership of the property with me, which both my dad and I were quite uneducated around and didn't really know what that meant the implications for us long-term in actually fixing that and getting 100% ownership in my name. So I'd went through this journey of realizing that fixing it and it cost me around about $13,000 to break a loan fee to fix that. That loan cost and then it cost me about another, yeah, and then it cost me about another 10 grand in stamp duty for me to take over the other 50% of the title on the property.

Speaker 2: 6:31

And my dad and I had a conversation with our accountant and a few other people that we sort of been put in contact with and my parents were on this journey to retire. They've recently retired and we were sort of like, well, do we wait? Do we wait a bit longer? Do we try and avoid that initial $13,000 break fee? But what was doing with Australian property at the time was it was growing, so the more the longer we left it, we probably would have had to pay the same amount of money, if not more. So we made the decision to cop the hit, cop the financial hit. I did that personally pay for the new stamp duty, pay for the fees.

Speaker 2: 7:08

And then I guess the positive side of that is, by the time that that fixed loan original fixed loan fee or that fixed loan was due to expire, I actually settled on another property. So at the end of the day, like you look at it and I think you need to go through lessons and you need to go through those periods to come out on the other side. And that's where I guess I realized that there was a need here in Australia to help people and educate people, and I continued to go on this journey and work out that this was something I really wanted to do. I've now been doing it for 12 months in sort of this buyer's agency space, helping people acquire investment properties and it's really fun and rewarding and great to just ring people and say, hey, we've been able to secure this property for you, and it's really fun and rewarding and great to just ring people and say, hey, we've been able to secure this property for you and it's really cool.

Speaker 1: 7:57

Man. You can tell the passion behind it and even the understanding. I hear a lot of people, probably similar to you, listen to a lot of podcasts where they mention that property is one of the best vehicles for wealth creation, and we purchased our first property in 2021 and it's had great growth since. Obviously, as a lot of property in Australia has over the last couple of years, and we never really looked at it for generating wealth. But as we've spoken to more people, listened to some of your content, you see how it can stack up and you can create that equity and for my wife and I, we have an idea of the number that we want to retire with so that we can have a passive income where we have the choice around whether we work or not, and then we have careers now that are providing cash flow to put money in those certain things.

Speaker 1: 8:47

But people don't like to talk about money. People don't like to talk about wealth creation. So the angle that you're taking one thing that I do like, and even just with your literal bio on Instagram it's talking about money and this is the vehicle to do it, rather than talking about property and working back. So I think the fact that you're hitting on what most people want and then being able to educate people that this is a potential vehicle for them. Once again, it's not for everyone, but if it is the potential vehicle for them.

Speaker 2: 9:16

Once again, it's not for everyone, but if it is the potential vehicle for them, then you can help them look at that and do that properly. Yeah, I agree, and I think the thing you said at the start of that previous passage is the first thing we sort of do with our clients or I do with my clients is actually sit down and work out what your goals are, because I think something I learned as well is there's no point going and acquiring property for what gain or what outcome. So what we do, or what I do with my clients initially, once we've agreed to come on board and go on this journey, is actually sit down and work out what that end goal looks like and reverse engineer the moves that we need to make to get you to that goal, because I think there's a big stigma around property investing that it's for the rich and the affluent and I'm a strong believer that it should be for every Australian and it's achievable for every Australian. Like I started, I purchased my first property earning 50K a year and even when I was acquired my second property, I was still only earning 65 70k. So, to be like it is accessible for everyone and it's not just for the rich and famous, and I think people believe or have this stigma around that you need 10, 15, 20 investment properties to to live off. And when I sit down with clients and I actually map out what they want to do or their passive income goal and show them that there's only a certain number of moves they need to make, they go oh, wow, okay, that genuinely is achievable.

Speaker 2: 10:47

And what I do is I create a bit of a worst case scenario for people. So we paint out what a picture would look like for them at retirement age of 65. And what are the moves that you need to make between now and then to be set up for retirement at 65? As sort of a worst case scenario, because life changes, right, like your goals change, things change. But at least then if you know, if you've made those moves that come point of retirement at 65, you're going to be set. And then it comes down to my skill set, which is to go and execute that and execute that well.

Speaker 2: 11:17

So then each year when we catch up and we review your plan, we might have in our plan that we need to purchase a property in 2024 and 2027. And then we catch up midway through 2025, that property's done really well, we've got some good equity growth, your borrowing capacity is good, we go well, hey, we're actually in a position. We had a plan, or the plan was to purchase another property in 2027. We've been through 2025. How's everything going? How's the household expenses? Really good, really solid. Well, maybe we bring that purchase a bit forward, because the key is to accumulate your total asset base as short as you can and then let compounding growth do its thing. So we set that baseline expectation for people that what this looks like, and then we try and tighten up that buying window as quick as we can and let compounding, the seventh wonder of the world, just go to work.

Speaker 1: 12:05

It is one of the most beautiful things.

Speaker 1: 12:07

I love your approach there from setting a bit of a goal and a game plan and it's really what we do within the academy as well and I think for anyone to achieve any specific outcome, you need to start with their end in mind and then work back.

Speaker 1: 12:20

And even with property, for example, if you're thinking, okay, I need to have x amount for my deposit and that's just not achievable yet, well then we can break that down into what has to happen first, and that could mean I need to work for that promotion, I need to tighten up, cut some expenses, I need to start a side hustle. Potentially there's all these other options that now present themselves for you that you can then act on in order to move closer to that goal. But if you allow the fear of one thing that you've mentioned before around there's so many moves to play, or a lot of people think there's not as many moves, sorry, people think there are a lot of moves to make in order to create that passive revenue stream. But when you sit down and map it out, it's not actually that bad. It's the same with every area of your life. It's just overcoming the fear that it could be pretty shit to go. Okay, let's just look at it, get a bit of a plan and a bit more understanding around it.

Speaker 1: 13:14

I think that's a very smart thing that you help people do.

Speaker 2: 13:17

Absolutely, and I look at it. To me less is more so if I have 10 to 15 investment properties, that's an absolute admin nightmare, like it really turns into a full-time job running your portfolio, and to me that's not the point, or that's not what I want for retirement. I don't want to be dealing with property managers. I don't want to be dealing with tenants Like I want to be doing as little as I can know that my money's at work know that my future's set up in the least possible moves that I need to make and just be comfortable, live a comfortable life, be happy with what you have and put your money to work for your future so that, yeah, you can enjoy the delayed gratification down the line and enjoy the time or the fruits of your labor that you've made now or previously.

Speaker 1: 14:03

And what would it look like if we could do a potential live example? And obviously I'm very mindful of rules and regulations.

Speaker 2: 14:11

So not financial advice.

Speaker 1: 14:13

Yeah, not financial advice. This is a bit of yeah, not financial advice. But let's say we've got a household income of like 150 to 200K. Let's say 150K and we have a goal to be retired by 65. We're currently 30. So what's that? 35 years and we believe that the number to attain that would be 8080,000 to $100,000 a year. That's assuming we've paid off all debt. Yep.

Speaker 2: 14:39

So I think-.

Speaker 1: 14:41

Is that sort of a common example?

Speaker 2: 14:43

Yeah, that is a common example. So generally that's the common goal, that a lot Well, actually it's probably the thing I work with people a lot is they come and they say, look, I want to have $200,000 passive income. That's what, 150, 200,000, that's what we're making household income wise? And I go, okay, like how did you get to that number? And then literally their answer is, okay, that's what we make now. And I'm like, okay, do you realize in retirement that you're not going to be saving? You don't need to save because you've done the saving, you know, you're just living off your income. And they're like, oh, okay, right. So I'm like, okay, what, what?

Speaker 2: 15:17

And we step through and we work out like, what, what is that basic baseline level of of revenue or income that they need?

Speaker 2: 15:23

And it's it is generally around that 80 to 100k for a couple to live comfortably, to be able to do what they need to do.

Speaker 2: 15:30

So we establish or we level out what their expectation is and generally the rule of thumb or what we do is you look to achieve around a 5% return on your total asset base.

Speaker 2: 15:57

So to get around that $100,000 passive, it's around sort of $2 million worth of assets fully paid off debt free, netting you or giving you a 5% return. So when you break it down like that, if you either go and buy $2 million properties, if you can handle the shortfall, or you go and buy four $500,000 properties, get you to that $2 million of baseline net asset base, we look at that and you go, yep, we can acquire that over the next couple of years. And then we just go into a debt consolidation strategy in line with your financial planner or your mortgage broker about how we get debt free. Or we look at it and go well, maybe we need to actually go and acquire you a couple of extra that we then sit and hold on in conjunction with your financial planner and your mortgage broker and your accountant, we look at how we exit out of that and which asset we might actually go and sell off to then help you clear your debt and get you to your goals, depending on when your timeframe is.

Speaker 1: 16:37

Dude, we have come out of the gates hot.

Speaker 2: 16:40

Yeah, we have eh.

Speaker 2: 16:43

And I think as well, probably too important to note as well, and something for the listeners is that we're talking about $100,000 goal, or $80,000 to $100,000 in today's money. We're talking about $100,000 goal, or 80 to 100,000 in today's money. So what we actually do, or what I do when I map this out, is we actually adjust that goal to inflation as well, because $100,000 today is not going to be $100,000 in 15 to 20 years time when you retire. So the software that I use builds in an adjustment to inflation to make sure that we're achieving you that target in today's dollars as well. So I think it's something like on a 3% inflation.

Speaker 2: 17:20

I think it's like 176 or $180,000 or something. So we make sure that we do factor for that, because that's a question that people go and that's something. When people go, I ask people it's like oh, and they say 200. I go is that in today's dollars or is that inflation adjusted? And they go, oh, in today's dollars. And so, yeah, we sort of level that out for them. And probably something really important to note as well.

Speaker 1: 17:40

It really, and thanks for sharing that. And it's definitely important to think about the inflation because it goes straight over a lot of people's head. But that's my biggest thing for anyone listening who is either feeling extremely excited and feeling like you could have a sense of control over wealth creation, or if you're in the other basket, where you may be feeling a little bit overwhelmed and potentially even feeling like you're behind the eight ball, it doesn't matter where we are in this moment, it's what we do with the information that we now have. So I remember the first time that I got introduced to. I've been introduced to a lot of different ways to make money, but I always get pumped about it because you're like, yes, I'm going to be able to fly business and do all of that.

Speaker 1: 19:10

And as I've become older and I've become clear on what wealth actually looks like for me and what I want the money to do for me and create for me, the number isn't as big as it once was, but I recognize that I don't have the skill, or I didn't have the skill, I didn't have the network and I didn't have the, I guess, mindset to be able to do what was required for me to start moving towards creating that. So what I would recommend and what I wish someone said to me, is just start with 10 minutes a day of listening to whether it's James's content on his Instagram, if property sounds exciting to you, or if it's James' content on his Instagram, if property sounds exciting to you or if it's other things just literally jump on YouTube the best university in the world and start listening and learning, and you're going to have more questions, and then you can go down a couple of rabbit holes, right, and then eventually you'll find your thing.

Speaker 2: 20:03

Yeah, and I think a couple of takeaways for that is you need to build yourself a team around you to do it. An analogy I sort of give and why I'm such an advocate for buyers agents is we outsource so much in our life. So we outsource our taxes to an accountant. We outsource our teeth or our teeth health to a dentist. We outsource the selling of our property to a sales agent or to a real estate agent. So why do we go and make our biggest financial transaction in our life on our own with no skills and no expertise? So that's probably something that is something that sort of hit home and what I learned early and something that people need to get their mindset around and what a buyer's agent can actually do for you in terms of an education piece around terms for a contract project, managing the transaction, reviewing of a building and pest inspection, dealing with the sales agent. I think there's a stat that a survey of clients from a buyer's agency is that 76% of all their clients said they would use a buyer's agent again. Now they know what a buyer's agency is, that 76% of all their clients said they would use a buyer's agent again. Now they know what a buyer's agent actually does for them. It's when the hesitancy and the part you don't see value is when you haven't used one before. So, yeah, once you see what they do for you, you go. Yeah, I'm happy to pay that money or I'm happy to refer my friends because I know the value and the peace that they do.

Speaker 2: 21:26

And I was having a chat to some clients a few weeks ago and we purchased them a property up in Townsville and they had tried to purchase a property in Townsville themselves about six months before they engaged me and they pulled out of the contract during a building and pest report and I held them through, stepped them through the property. We got a building and pest report and I held them through, stepped them through the property. We got the building and pest report and in the building and pest report it had a high moisture rating. It just said, please, you know, highly recommend getting a plumber to check out behind this wall. Spoke to the building and pest guy and he was like, oh, look like, yeah, just get it checked out. Like it's been a lot of rain, it's getting this quite common. So we checked that out.

Speaker 2: 22:07

They did that and there was a big crack in the recess, which required about $12,500 a work, and was able to negotiate that to be fixed prior to settlement by the sellers, and had a bit of a chat to the clients about it and I asked them their experience and they said, yeah, it just felt really weird going through the whole process because we've gone and acquired this property, we haven't done a hell of a lot, but it's just been great We've been able to sit back and do it.

Speaker 2: 22:31

And they referred back to that incident with the building of Pest and they said, look, to be honest, we probably would have brushed over that, we would have just, oh yeah, like we probably won't get that done, and then they would have got lumped with this $12,500 repair bill at some point, possibly even more if there was more damage to it. So that's just one example of what an expert on the buying side can actually do for you and, even again, save you money down the track or be able to step you through and guide you through something and say, hey, this actually needs to get fixed or we need to push this a bit harder with the sales agent. You just get it checked out.

Speaker 1: 23:07

I think that's a good point as well. When you think about what do you want your role to be in the wealth creation process? For me, for example, I love the idea of creating wealth and property being one of those things. I'm not one of the people who's going to sit on domaincom and froth out over properties. For me, it's a vehicle. I've got a lot of buddies who love looking at the properties they send me and I'm like, yeah, that's cool, but that's not my thing.

Speaker 1: 23:32

So, like with creating leverage in any area of your life, you find the people who love doing those things and you invest in them to help you get the job done. Because for me, if I look at wealth creation, as I said to you before, james, I know what we're working towards in regards to our number, what our vehicles are and where our cash is and what we want to keep growing that to in order to live what we perceive will be a great life. Once again, no one really knows until we're there, but that's what I think and I'm more interested in other things, so I'm going to put my time and energy there and that's what works well for me. So I think that's a great point.

Speaker 2: 24:10

And I think as well. I'm an advocate for property because property has done well for me. There's nothing to say that shares and investing in the stock market won't do well for you. I'm advocating for property because property has done well for me. I'm not saying that's the be all and end all. I think it's just important to decide what your level of risk tolerance is, what you want to achieve and how you want to achieve it, and just stick to the vehicle that you choose. So many people chop and change. They go. I'll do a bit of crypto this month and then I'm going to do a bit of ETFs this month, but then I'm also going to try and buy a property at the same time. It's just pick your swim lane and commit to it. Find yourself a plan and just commit. And for some people, property isn't for them, and that's absolutely okay. This is just one avenue of many other swim lanes or streams to get you along in your wealth creation journey.

Speaker 1: 25:04

We spoke about teams before building that team In business and in life. I like to look at it as a personal board of advisors, and some of them I know personally and others don't even know I exist, meaning I listen to their podcasts, consume their content. We first connected when you were playing football. I was going to say rugby, but AFL, afl, yeah, and you held yeah. You held not yeah, and you held some high leadership positions. You've been inducted into the. I'll let you tell the story, but you're a life member, which is a pretty cool thing. I'd love to go back to a bit of the AFL story and then we can use some experiences and learning from that and really tie that into what you're doing now and also people's, I guess, connection and relation between sport and wealth creation.

Speaker 2: 25:53

Yeah. So I guess for me, growing up as a kid, playing AFL, afl was my thing. It's what I grew up, like many young aspiring AFL players was to play elite level AFL, be an AFL professional footy player. And I got pretty damn close, ended up playing in the semi-professional competition here in Queensland which was originally called the NEFL, the Northeast Australian AFL Football League, where it was a competition of some of the top teams here in Queensland, also some teams from Sydney, canberra and the Northern Territory, and we were in a 10-team competition where we would also play against the reserve grade sides of the Brisbane Lions, the Sydney Swans, gold Coast Suns, gws Giants and, yeah, basically we would go up on a Saturday if we were playing against an AFL club, against full-time athletes Sometimes there'd be 10 full-time athletes, sometimes there'd be 10 full-time athletes, sometimes there'd be 22.

Speaker 2: 26:51

And for us, I think semi-professional AFL athletes or semi-professional athletes in general, whether that's guys playing in the Q Cup or other sports I don't think we get the credit that we deserve, because I remember a couple of times on the field you'd get sort of sledged by a few of the professional athletes, but they forget that you hold a full-time job.

Speaker 2: 27:12

You could be a full-time tradesman, you could be a full-time uni student, you could be a full-time worker, and their full-time job is to train and perform. Yet you're outperforming them. You're competing with them at such a high level and, yes, they are a bit younger than you. However, you with them at such a high level and, yes, they are a bit younger than you. However, you're still performing against them. So you had to balance full-time job weights and maybe in the morning or before training Our competition. We would travel. If we were playing, say, the Sydney Swans in Sydney on a Saturday, we would actually either have to get half a day off work on a Friday to fly to Sydney, or we'd be flying to Sydney at like five or six o'clock at night. So we basically got as close as you could get to the AFL without actually being in the AFL, which was a pretty cool experience.

Speaker 1: 27:53

What was it like? Obviously, when you first cracked the kneeful at a young age Was the goal even the whole time you were playing to still get that opportunity to play AFL.

Speaker 2: 28:04

Yeah, it was Up until about 24, 25,. Opportunity to play AFL yeah, it was Up until about 24, 25,. I really had a dream to still get drafted and be a mature age draftee because there was quite a few kids coming out or quite a few young men coming out of our NEFL program at 22, 23, 24. That were getting opportunities and there are a few guys still in the system now that are playing in the AFL. But it sort of then pivoted once. I sort of realized that that was sort of not going to happen or transpire.

Speaker 2: 28:33

I sort of started to accumulate a few games at the footy club and we sort of started to have some success.

Speaker 2: 28:37

So I sort of pivoted almost and wanted to, I guess, essentially nearly be like a one club player and be a life member at my footy club.

Speaker 2: 28:46

And because my grandfather and my uncle are life members, a life member at my footy club, and because my my grandfather and my uncle are life members of their our home footy club back in in victoria, where my dad's from, and also like I would go down there and I'd see their names on the honor board and I was like that's actually a pretty, like really notable achievement and at our footy club.

Speaker 2: 29:03

They just started to induct people into our footy hall or footy life membership and it was 200 senior games and I then started to work towards that and did have a few injury setbacks. But, yeah, last year got that 200 game milestone and was inducted as a footy life member at age 31, which the previous life member he's a couple years older than me and we sort of played together and he was 30, I think 31 or 32 at the same time. So, yeah, two of the youngest guys there's only six people in the football life membership at our footy club and he's quite young, but it's a pretty high regard or pretty high honor that I will take with me for the rest of my life, something I'm very proud of.

Speaker 1: 29:48

Mate. Firstly, well done. I think that's incredible. One thing that impresses me even more was your ability to pivot. When you accepted that maybe the AFL dream wasn't going to happen, you created or found a new purpose within your role playing footy, so you could still continue to do what you love. My own experience when I realized that that dream wasn't going to happen was I just self-destructed. Where do you feel your ability to pivot came from?

Speaker 2: 30:16

rather than self-destruct, I actually I take I give this back to the credit for this back to back to my parents, um, because something that my mom and dad always instilled in me from when I was a young kid because they knew I wanted to play in the AFL and they knew how hard it was but something they always sort of instilled in me was that you need an option outside of football, you need some other type of direction, you need something to sort of work towards. So for me it was, yeah, making sure that I had a good, stable career, good stable work opportunity whilst I was doing that, and that that wasn't tied to my overall identity, that that wasn't what defined me as a person, so that if that didn't come to fruition that wasn't the be all and end all I wouldn't self-destruct. I was able to sort of still continue on and, yeah, very grateful for that and that sort of learning. I think I've only sort of really realized that probably in the last two to three years.

Speaker 1: 31:15

I think that what that value or what that sort of I guess instillment from my parents has actually done for me into where I am today or what I've been able to do and achieve really just highlights once again the power of influence from the, the people that you spend your your time around with obviously very lucky to have parents to, you know give you that perspective that a lot of people maybe don't necessarily get. But what you went then went on to do obviously becoming a life member and the leadership we first connected when you reached out about getting a leadership program within the club. You know you really stood up and wanted not only to better the club's performance as a whole but build, build a better community and build a better, I guess, team and culture within the place. You can you give us a bit of a rundown of the hornet program and everything that sort of went on there with the leadership?

Speaker 2: 32:08

Yeah, so with our footy club, and like all sporting clubs and footy clubs, you go through cultural challenges. You go through good times and you go through bad times and around through about 2016, 2017, 2018, we were going through a bit of a rough patch culturally and we had a changeover in coach, we had a changeover in players, a bit of a change in the guard, we had a change over in sort of players, a bit of changing the guard, and the new coach had sort of come in was like right, we need to drive high level performance. So the club went and engaged a company or a leading company here in australia called leading teams to bring in an external facilitator to help instill a high-performance environment. So we used or we engaged that company for two years so 2019 and 2020, to help drive our high-performing standards, which really catapulted us into the next period of success which the footy club has had and they are continuing to still have. So what we actually developed was this program called the Horn NAD program, which is a bit of a blend between a Hornet, which was our team logo, and a LAD. So we sort of merged them together to create this ideology or something that you continuously work towards and what this was sort of built off the back of was Simon Sinek's book the Infinite Game.

Speaker 2: 33:29

Because what I guess myself and some of the other leaders sort of noticed was that footy clubs build values. They have values, they have slogans, they have trademarks and what they do every year is they just throw them up on a wall and they don't actually drive them or actually drive cultural change or create an actual culture. Actually drive them or actually drive cultural change or create an actual culture. And what we sort of notice is, or what we learned through this experience is culture is something that is continuously worked on. And footy clubs, what they do in all sports, they all sit down in March and they go right, what do we want to be known for this year? What's our values, what's our trademark, what are we going to do? And then they throw them up on the wall and they don't do anything about it.

Speaker 2: 34:05

And I had a conversation in one of the leaders' meetings. I was like hey guys, like why are we doing this in March? Like what's the point of doing it in March? Season starts in a month. How are we actually going to drive change in four weeks? We have a whole preseason. We start training in November, so why don't we the whole of November, december, january, february, march, april, before we get into the season, to actually drive these standards, drive these behaviors?

Speaker 2: 34:35

And something we also decided that next following year was why are we even going to change our values? Why do we need to change them? If they're not broken, don't fix it. Because the part of a culture is something you're continuously working on and building on. And clubs, they just change values because they feel like they have to change them. So for us, it was what we would do is we review our values, we review them, but if they didn't, we didn't need to change them. We didn't change them.

Speaker 2: 34:55

But what we really did focus on is building a culture, because something it culture is what carries through. So when we would have new players come to the club, when we have new, new coaches come to the club, what the leaders would do with the existing players you would actually go and induct the new players come to the club. When we have new coaches come to the club, what the leaders would do with the existing players is you would actually go and induct the new players into the group. Hey, this is what our values are, this is what our behaviors are, this is what we stand for, because then guys come through and they actually integrate into the culture or integrate into the group, because something what we actually what we learned through leading teams is this sliding scale where on the left-hand side of the scale you have good culture, on the right-hand side of the scale you have bad culture Most people sit in the middle right and it just moves into this scale where, if you have more people on the negative side or the bad culture, the guys in the middle jump down towards the negative scale.

Speaker 2: 35:46

You'll get a few of the guys from the good level of culture jump across as well, but then you'll have a lot of guys on the positive side that will just buy out, they'll leave.

Speaker 2: 35:54

They'll be like this is not what I want to be a part of. Or, transversely, what we had was a lot of the guys in the middle. They jumped on board in the positive side, then a few of the guys that were sort of showing some negative cultural traits jumped on and moved up and changed their behavior and then transversely same as what the example was with the good side they bought out, they left, they moved on. So if you don't have that continuous drive of values or actually exemplify what it is and have people driving high-performing standards or actually living the values you mean, for nothing they end up just being words on a wall that you say we do it, but then you do, you actually do it it's one of the things that I really appreciate and admire about you is your ability to look at something and then zoom out and ask the question why would we start at four weeks out?

Speaker 1: 36:41

that's not really a realistic time frame for one. Let's kick it off in november when we start pre-season and then also raising the standards and understanding that you don't need to change it all the time. People do that with everything, like they. If I finish a fitness goal like what now, it's like I'm just going to continue doing more of the same because I am ready. It doesn't always have to be a big shake-up and, as you said, if it isn't broken, you don't necessarily need to fix it. You can fine tune it, but just keep building upon it. It's almost like that compound effect, right?

Speaker 1: 37:11

100% more of what is already working well and you'll get an amplified result 100% and so from your experience. Are you at you jump in?

Speaker 2: 37:20

yeah. So I was going to say just tying it back to the horn ad and and the infinite goal. So what we would do is we would, each year, we'd look at like what does the ultimate Hornad look like? What does that dream look like? And we just continue to just work towards that, work towards that. What does that look like? What does that look like? What does it look like?

Speaker 2: 37:37

And each year you just refine it and it actually probably just keep getting further and further away from you. So you're just not going to achieve, which is absolutely fine, because I think, like we even we link back to property, like your goals, change things, change things, pivot. So that's something that we did every year. And we refer back to the Hornad. If someone to say, lockie, you're in our group, you're in the playing group and you weren't living up to the value, the simple question was is that what a Hornad would do? Is that what we hold ourselves to account? Is that what a Hornad standard is? And it just becomes so infectious and because we gave the players something somewhat tangible and something to hang on to, they were able to buy in and they were able to really embrace it.

Speaker 1: 38:24

Were you ever hit back and I know you probably were with people who said, look, you're probably taking it too seriously with setting these standards and really trying to elevate everyone?

Speaker 2: 38:34

Yep, 100%.

Speaker 2: 38:35

There's always going to be pushback when you're driving culture, but something that underlining to this is we ultimately just want to drive better humans for society.

Speaker 2: 38:45

And that's where I really value groups like the Strong Men of Value Academy and these particular things, because there's not enough A need that we saw and partly why at the time, we looked to engage someone like yourself, because you're a big advocate for men's mental health, for men just being better men, and we saw, as a group of leaders, that we had an opportunity to influence 60 men, or 60 blokes, to just be better humans for society, because what we were working with these blokes on was just being better humans, having better values, being more aspirational and just contributing more to society. Because so many of our guys in our group struggling with identity, struggling with vulnerability and that's something that we worked a hell of a lot on and we did some exercises to to bring out vulnerability and bring out trust and the amount of change that these guys had in their lives. And each year we would do a survey, the coaches would do a survey, and it was like what did you, what did you love the most? And it was love, the Hornet program, love the pre-training chats, the vulnerability sharing. It's just showing people for who they are and creating an environment where people can come in and flourish.

Speaker 1: 39:59

I love that. I think it's so important to one create the environment that encourages that. A lot of us want it. We just have never been exposed to it. Therefore, when people say, oh, you know, for example, are you okay day?

Speaker 1: 40:13

Moments like that are uncomfortable because we haven't practiced that before.

Speaker 1: 40:16

That's why, being, I guess, transferred into an environment where it is part of the culture in the community, like the hornad program or what we do with the academy you see other men doing that and then you go, ah, and I I've been through that before or I feel like I could talk about that or add to that conversation and that's where the flexing of the muscle starts and it then creates this ripple effect where you build that in your current environment and then you can take it back to an external community with your friendship groups or your work places outside of that.

Speaker 1: 40:46

And that's where I think it's really undervalued and it's why I wanted to ask that question around the pushback that you may receive, because I've had it happen to me a lot where people go man, you take that a bit seriously and I believe it's very important to not fold on your personal standards, because they really dictate how we live our life and the results that we have, and the reason why a lot of people don't have the wealth that they want, they don't have the love that they want, they don't have the physique that they want or the health that they want, is because they don't set their standards and hold them.

Speaker 2: 41:17

I guess, hold them, maintain that standard 100%, and how we actually held ourselves to standards was building trust and building strong relationships. I think a lot of people, or a lot of sports athletes in team environments or even I guess what I see from working in business is people don't understand that when you're giving someone feedback, it's not giving them feedback because they don't like you as a person, it's they just want what's best for you or what's in line with the team and the values that you guys have created as a standard to work towards. So what we actually did as a group is to build that vulnerability and trust, because what you find in footy clubs and sporting teams is you come in, you see them in training. It's like, oh hey, lachie, what's happening? How's the weather? Oh, how's the weather today? Oh yeah, sky's blue. Oh, yeah, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah sweet. Oh yeah, how's work? Yeah, it was all right, yeah, cool. I was on the tools today Like it's all this surface level chat. Right, how are you meant to have that conversation with someone if you don't know them? You don't know how they respond to things, you don't understand them or have a deep connection to them as a person?

Speaker 2: 42:43

So each year, what we would do is we'd do an exercise before training. So one person would come up at the start of training we actually did two because we had quite a large group at the time but what they would do is you'd have about five minutes to share or answer two questions. So the first year we did it was an adaptation from the Richmond Footy Club when they were going through a period of success which was a highlight and a hardship. So you had to get up and talk about the biggest highlight in your life outside of sport and then the biggest hardship you've had in your life that was not sport related and it was so moving seeing grown men get up and share their highlights. Being up there, seeing grown men cry. We had guys like genuinely crying when I was speaking. We had guys in the audience crying over what was being shared.

Speaker 2: 43:37

And this counter for this five minute period, right, is before training. So if you're still in the medical room, you're getting taped. It was tools down, physios, stop taping. Physios, come out Like it's everyone in our group. Right, it was players, coaches, volunteers, staff. If you just rolled into training, you were late. It was basically drop your bag, get out. Like it was just tools down for this five minutes. You give this person the five minutes they deserve and and share their story.

Speaker 2: 44:02

Um, and it was, yeah, so moving like we had, yeah, our men, our women all within our particular group. We had some female support staff. Everyone was a part of this and everyone looked forward to it at the start of every session. So that first year we did highlight and hardship, but then each year we progressively made the questions a bit more challenging, to get even more deeper. So we got to a point where last year our even more deeper. So we got to a point where last year our questions were what is your biggest insecurity in your life and what is your biggest dream in life if you couldn't fail?

Speaker 1: 44:35

I want to ask you those questions. Yeah, what is your?

Speaker 2: 44:39

biggest insecurity in life? I had a feeling you were going to ask that. So my biggest insecurity and I've already done it here a couple of times today is I have this real habit because I get so passionate is I interrupt people when they speak and I know it comes off rude and I know it can cut, it, can put people off, and I've been really trying, like I really work hard at this. But my biggest security is I think people think I'm rude because I cut them off all the time, but it's because I'm just I'm so passionate, like I get so passionate in the time. But it's because I'm just I'm so passionate, like I get so passionate in the topic and it's something that I do think about quite a bit and I'm working really hard to be better at.

Speaker 2: 45:15

But that's, yeah, probably my biggest insecurity and my biggest dream. It links back to property and it's why I'm in property is to create, to be able to retire early, to be able to travel, to be able to spend time with my kids or I don't have kids at the moment, but my eventual kids to be able to spend time with them. Because I look back at career and I look at people who are successful in careers. They work 60, 80 hours a week, make a lot of money. More money comes with more responsibility. It comes with less time with your friends and your family and loved ones and just leads to regret down the line.

Speaker 1: 45:44

Love that, mate. That's cool, something that I'm very excited to watch you achieve over the next couple of years. Mate, you played a lot of years of football.

Speaker 2: 45:56

How many premierships did you get? I got two. I was captain of my footy club for the past two years, so we won, won the premiership, was captain of the senior team in 2022, um, and then in last year, um, I won a reserve grade premiership. Um, I actually got, I got dropped. I was captain of the club and I got dropped for for the final series, um, which was pretty, pretty heavy, something that was pretty hard to deal with, and it actually wasn't the first time that it has happened. It happened in 2014 as well.

Speaker 2: 46:35

I obviously wasn't captain of the club at the time, I was just a young 22-year-old. Yeah, got dropped for the finals and then, yeah, had to sort of watch the team go and win a premiership. So, yeah, I won two premierships. I tell people I've won two premierships, missed out on two as well and played in two other grand finals senior grand finals and a few reserve grand finals but, yeah, it was pretty hard to deal with, and probably that one in 2014 was probably my biggest regret and biggest learning in not only football but life as well.

Speaker 1: 47:04

What was the regret?

Speaker 2: 47:05

It's just the way I actually carried myself during that period as a person. It's just totally against me as an individual. So, yeah, I found out on the Thursday night, before the Saturday, that yeah, I was dropped, didn't see it coming, like didn't even see it coming at all, but I was really pissed off, was really disappointed in. You know, I played every game that year, thought I was playing well, got dropped, which is what happens. Selection is selection, but like to a point where, like I was emergency right and I selfishly didn't turn up to the game until five minutes before the game, didn't wear my club polo, didn't buy into just didn't buy into any of it. And yeah, basically got absolutely sprayed by the coach. On the Tuesday night A guy come in, he was injured, they were thinking about possibly playing me the next week and he basically just hit me between the eyes and said, mate, the way you carry yourself on the weekend is not, you know, it's just not how we expect people to carry ourselves. And yeah, essentially the guy got up, he played the team, you know, won two more games, made it to the grand final, won the grand final. And yeah, it's just my biggest regret as a person because it's not how I carry myself and how I want to be known as a person, like I'm not a selfish person, and it was just something. That again was just one of those things that I used to spur on and I did at the time think about leaving the footy club, think about leaving. I was like that pissed off and that disappointed in the club. But again I had to talk to my old man. My old man was like, mate, like this is on you, you're the only one who can control your performance. And how you respond is ultimately how people remember. And he also said to me because the Aspley, the club I'm playing at, like it's the highest club you can play at, so in the north side of Brisbane. So he's like, where are you going to go? Like, where are you going to go? Like you're going to go play at year 22. You're going to go play at a lower level. He's like when you leave, you can't come back. Like so, yeah, yeah, basically sucking up my pride and and you just got to work and I had it in my head like I didn't want it to happen again. But yeah, it happened.

Speaker 2: 49:18

It happened last year and the hardest part for that was one I'd already been through been through that in 2014, but the hardest part was being captain of your footy club and having to go through that Because one you're the example. You set the example for people. So if I had done what I did in 2014, I would look like the biggest phony or the biggest bullshit artist that I've set this example of what this ultimate horn ad looks like. And then I go and crack the shits and lead by example.

Speaker 2: 49:47

It was bloody hard and everyone knew it was hard, but the hardest part was, yeah, having to push through that and not show the emotion and not feel hurt which I was feeling hurt and people knew I was hurt, but it's just how you carry yourself through that. But I mean you look at it same thing Like I'm just really grateful that, yeah, we were able to win the premiership in the reserve grade and the seniors in the same year. That doesn't happen very often. So it's about where you find the positives in every challenge that you go through.

Speaker 1: 50:13

Oh man, it's such an incredible thing because those lessons and experiences will help you in business and life after as well. A lot of people don't find themselves experiencing those hardships in I guess what would be, and so when they go into the workplace and they maybe don't get that promotion or they don't get validated the way that they want to, they'd like to, then they have a big tantrum, they quit, they start looking for other roles when, as your dad said, it's on you. The performance and the ability for you to be recognized is how well are you networking? How much are you giving back to the community? There's so many things within our control that a lot of people overlook, and I think your football experience will definitely have helped you as an individual, which is going to help you in business and it's going to help you for the rest of your life 100%.

Speaker 2: 51:08

The biggest growth happens through failure is not the right word but through setbacks. If we don't have setbacks in life, how are we growing or how are we moving forward? If you're not uncomfortable in particular situations, how are you actually moving forward? Like, we all know, life's hard. So put yourself it's like like what Goggin said Do hard shit, do hard shit, you get better and then you get good at something. We'll find something else that's harder, and just keep doing hard shit and then you just that's where growth happens, I believe and I think that's you know. Why we get along so well is you put yourself in hard situations. I put myself in hard. Like, again, you surround yourself with people who do similar things or are on the same wavelength as you 100%. I do similar things or are on the same wavelength as you.

Speaker 1: 51:48

A hundred percent. I'm going to attach all your links and resources below, but where can people find you if they want to? One, follow your journey, but two, find out more about the wealth creation vehicle, using you as a buyer's agent.

Speaker 2: 52:00

Yeah, obviously yeah, on all social media platforms. James Nellis I think it's James Nellis double underscore on Instagram. James Nellis underscore buyer. It's James Neillis double underscore on Instagram. James Neillis underscore buyer's agent on TikTok, facebook. Or you can just head to my website, wwwjamesneilliscomau. Or yeah, send me a message on there and we can just have a bit of a chat, like I think what I try to do from a content piece is just provide free, free education for people. I fully understand that not everyone might be ready, but it's just getting people thinking about wealth creation and what property could do for you. And if property is not for you, shares might be for you or whatever that vehicle might be. And this is just, as I said, one angle of a multitude of angles for you in terms of a wealth creation journey, because we all deserve financial freedom or financial happiness.

Speaker 1: 52:47

Mate, I could not agree more. Thanks so much for your time, brother. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Speaker 2: 52:52

No, it's been sick, mate. Thanks for having me.