Secular Left
Secular Left
Lifewise Academy Exposed: The Dangerous Intersection of Religion and Public Schools with Zach Parrish and Molly Gaines
In this jammed packed episode, we talk with Zach and Molly, parents who are taking a stand against LifeWise Academy, an evangelical Christian nationalist group that has found a way to seep into public schools through a legal loophole. They have formed Parents Against LifeWise to shed light on the group's questionable tactics, lack of background checks on members, and the concerning activities they are engaged in. The episode paints a grim picture of how school districts are turning a blind eye to the situation, emphasizing the urgent need for public awareness and action to combat the influence of such groups in educational settings.
We touch on the frustrating moments of silence encountered when reaching out to organizations like FFRF and Ohio ACLU, who have failed to address the issues at hand adequately. This inaction leaves children vulnerable and without proper representation, highlighting the crucial role parents play in advocating for their rights. The responsibility falls on schools to ensure they are held accountable for any violations, rather than letting external groups like LifeWise escape blame for any harmful activities.
The discussion exposes the deceptive nature of LifeWise, presenting itself as non-denominational while promoting exclusive evangelical beliefs, potentially preying on susceptible communities. Their curriculum, based on the Southern Baptist Convention, spreads harmful ideologies among impressionable young minds, as evidenced by documents detailing their damaging teachings. The podcast also shines a light on individuals like Joel Penton, involved in the group's questionable practices under the guise of motivational speeches with underlying religious agendas. The dubious funding sources and misleading petition strategies employed by LifeWise raise significant concerns about their true motives.
We finally explore the legal challenges faced by Zach, who shared LifeWise's curriculum online and is now embroiled in a lawsuit with the group. Despite accessing the material lawfully and with no profit motive, Zach finds himself in a legal battle against LifeWise, showcasing the community rallying behind him for support. We touch on a recent scandal involving a former LifeWise employee, adding layers of complexity to the situation. Zach expresses gratitude for the solidarity received and discusses avenues for assistance in his legal defense as the podcast concludes with well-wishes for his upcoming court proceedings, directing listeners to their website for further information and updates.
Full Show Notes
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[0:04] Christian nationalists like Joel Penton and LifeWise Academy are like real-life versions of Terminators. They can't be reasoned with and they will force themselves on public school children. We hear from two parents who decided enough was enough and now they are subject to intimidation tactics by LifeWise that seem like they're copied from the mafia. And like all All Christian nationalists, they kinda are. I'm Doug Berger. And this is Secular Left.
[0:42] Music.
[0:59] Welcome to Secular Left, and I am Doug, I am your host. And on this episode, we're going to hear from two parents who are battling LifeWise Academy, which is an evangelical Christian nationalist group trying to force its way into public schools during the day. Not necessarily teaching the Bible in school during the day, but getting the kids off campus to take to a separate site to teach them Bible stories.
[1:37] And it's all perfectly constitutional, sort of. They are manipulating a state law in order to do it. And I've talked about LifeWise on at least three other episodes. And this is the first time that I've interviewed some parents who have been affected by LifeWise. And these parents, Zach and Molly, formed a group called Parents Against LifeWise in order to educate other parents about it because this group, life-wise, they like to fly under the radar and pop up. Their typical modus operandi is to go into lower-income, lower-informational school districts and get a foothold, and then they'll go then to the urban areas. And I really think it's important that people know about this group.
[2:40] It's connected to a couple of the groups that helped write the Project 2025 agenda that conservatives are foaming at the mouth to start using if a Republican administration gets elected in November. And so it's well-funded in the tactics that they use. They in one instance they had the lieutenant governor john hughes did write a letter to a school board president to a school district that was hesitant to have a policy so you know they're pulling out all the stops because they want to get first of all they want to get your money, and the second one is then they want to convert your children and i just think that the whole process is just totally Orwellian. But we'll let Zach and Molly tell it like it is. This interview was originally recorded for my other podcast, Glass City Humanist, and was published back in June.
[3:43] Since that episode was published, things have sped up a little bit, and Zach Parrish, one of the parents that we're going to hear from, was actually sued by LifeWise just this week, the week that we're recording this episode. And so at the end of the main episode, the main interview, I have about a 10 or 13 minute segment talking with Zach about the lawsuit that was just recorded this week. And so I hope you stay for that. So on with the show.
[4:19] Music.
[4:28] My guest today is Zachary Parrish and Molly Gaines. They are co-founders of the parents group Parents Against LifeWise. And I want to thank you both for being with us today. Appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for having us. And for those that are unaware, the state of Ohio has a state law that's been on the books for about 10 years that school districts can have what's called release time religious education. And what that means is that with parental permission, a kid can go to a Bible class off campus. The law was originally put on the books to allow high school students to receive course credit if they went and went to Bible class at some church or somewhere. But now it's being manipulated and hijacked by a group called LifeWise. And they are an evangelical Christian group that's forcing school districts that have these policies to allow young elementary children to be taken off campus to attend a Bible class. And I think it's once a week or is it once a month? I forget. It's once a week. Once a week? Yep. And that's like per grade, obviously. They do it K through elementary most places, but they also have a middle school and high school program that they're rolling out now as well.
[5:50] And so LifeWise is well-funded and has a lot of muscle behind it, a lot of state leadership and things like that. And Zach and Molly are parents who decided to push back against the rising tide of LifeWise, and they started Parents Against LifeWise. And they also work with other like-minded groups who are also against it. And so we'll go ahead and talk to them about it. But and feel free to jump in and start answering a question if you want to answer it. And and we'll try to change it up a little bit. So not everybody's doing the same question. I guess I'll go with Molly then. How did you get introduced to LifeWise?
[6:32] Actually, not to tell you how to do your job, but it would be better if you started with Zach because he was the first parent on the ground and it was his Reddit post that I found. And that was from years ago. Zach, you can tell more about it. Okay. Yeah, I guess I was first introduced when my daughter was in second grade in 2001. And at open house, they sent home a letter. And, you know, the teacher described it to me at open house. But the thing is, they were putting her in a study hall in second grade, you know, not attending life wise. The students would get put in the study hall. all and even the handouts that they sent home like the class schedules themselves listed life-wise as the class like i've got two copies of that from both years when she was in second grade and in third grade and that that's really what got me started down the path and then like molly said i put a big post on reddit and it got quite a few hits you know a lot of comments and a lot of views um people still hit me up about it to this day asking where
[7:31] they can learn more and stuff so So, yeah, that's what got me started. I reached out to the FFRF and they sent a letter for me that first year. And, you know, the school's lawyers sent their letter back and basically called me a liar. And that was pretty much the end of it, even though I have all the evidence still, you know, I've got it all. But there's only so much those organizations are going to do, unfortunately.
[7:55] And what year was that did that happen 2001. oh okay oh i'm sorry no no i'm sorry 2021. 21 okay yeah yeah sorry i don't think joel pitt no hadn't even invented it yet so no yeah 21 i'm sorry and um ffrf was that the letter that they sent to all the school districts or was that just for you no they sent one for me personally to the district yeah and was that uh your uh similar experience, Molly, or that your kids brought something home? No.
[8:30] So my daughter, so actually he's going through this in 2021 and he has a daughter that's in the school district at that time. I did not. My daughter was born in 2018. So that math is that she was too young. But at that particular moment, the end of 2021, I was leaving an abusive relationship, unfortunately. And the small town that I lived in with my child's father, they had already had LifeWise in place and were on the social media accounts looking for donations and word was getting spread around town. Again, it was a small town. And so that was the first time I had seen it. I started to see like the red bus and some insidious things that were sort of concerning to me. And again, my daughter wasn't in school yet. So I was leaving that abusive relationship. I went Went half an hour towards more of a metro area to have more access to resources and to be closer to my mother. And it wasn't anywhere over here yet at all. And so that's when I sort of started looking and researching. And through that is how I found the Reddit post and just sort of reached out to Zach. I don't even remember exactly, but we connected and we're like, let's get some more eyes and ears on this. Like, what are we doing here? And the more we looked into it, the more concerning things got and the more it's grown.
[9:51] Okay. And when did you form Parents Against LifeWise? It was September of 2023. And was that just the impetus that you both shared that experience or there was other people that came forward and they were like, hey, let's have a group?
[10:12] I mean, what was the just, how did it just date? Sure. Zach, do you remember specifics? specifics. I just remember deciding to start the Facebook group. Well, you had it started before you reached out to me specifically because there were small local ones. There was two local ones that I was in the Finley group. And then the other one, the Northwest Ohio one. Yeah. But I think we touched base in the Finley group. And as soon as you, I saw you just had a broad one, I jumped over. And as soon as I did, he asked me to just help with it. So yeah, I was like, can you get on board? Because when I'm looking at the timeline and I'm talking to everyone, I'm, I'm noticing like Zach, you know he's he's he's been through it his daughter brought my name my name definitely comes up when you look into it i mean i'm i've been loud i feel like i have to be you know because people weren't aware of this nobody had any idea that was their plan from the beginning they went into rural areas where you know there's not a lot of people who are very christian and that's where they started they put their hooks in there and figured out how to do it before going to the bigger cities correct yeah they made themselves get established in these places that were primarily primarily white, primarily Christian, primarily conservative parts of Ohio specifically, because the pilot program started in Van Wert. And that is the hometown of the founder, the CEO, Joel Penton. So that is kind of the epicenter of what we're talking about. The new headquarters is going to be in Hilliard, but Van Wert is sort of where it all started.
[11:39] Yeah, I remember when I was in school many, many, many moons ago, they actually, a lot of the rural schools had religious stuff on campus. You know, even though it was unconstitutional, you know, people looked the other way. Somebody was reminding me the other day that this one school district in Hancock County, they had a church bus that parked in the parking lot. And the kids would come out and they would have stuff on the bus have a like it was like modified at tables and things like that and then the bus would drive away and people are shocked and i'm like yeah that's what happens in rural ohio oh yeah people just look the other way, I mean, that's something we've seen specifically with LifeWise. I've seen them parking their bus over the weekends at the schools in two different
[12:28] school districts, personally. So, yeah. And they're using classrooms in the public schools to host luncheons. They're using, I don't actually even say classrooms, they're using the facilities at public schools to host luncheons for volunteers and teachers.
[12:45] You know, we have reports of them holding actual LifeWise classes at schools. Schools but of course this is in places again where the populations are lower it's more rural there's not going to be any pushback if there is it's going to be the minority and those people are scared so you're not going to hear much about it. Yeah and to make things clear there is still a prohibition against having religious classes in public schools and also this this law that they're using the release time law specifically states that it can't be done on campus. It can't use resources. It can't use the teachers, but you know, we have these sporadic reports that that's what's going on. They absolutely push every boundary they can. I mean, that, that seems very intentional to me. They like to push the limits every, every way they can.
[13:39] They will do whatever they want until they're told not to. And then they will like think about it or they'll backpedal and it's only usually temporary um or it's you know until another junction comes and you know whatever their pushing session is or whatever um it's it's creating a dynamic in communities where um anyone who is not the vocal minority or the vocal majority um religious religion wise um is afraid and is being ostracized not just their children but their families as well even more so than before.
[14:16] Yeah, and I know there was a recent bill that was introduced, House Bill 445, that would require school districts to have a policy. Right now, it's up to school districts if they have one. And one of the things, you know, I come at it from a church-state separation angle, but there's other, you know, I know there's some people that don't want to hassle religion or they think it's a hassle, and there's other reasons to be against it. But another reason to be against it is they have no requirements to do any background checks at all on anybody involved.
[14:52] LifeWise claims that they do them, but according to the law, they are not required to do any. Zach, you take this one. Yeah, I mean, we looked into their background checks. I specifically did one myself, and I definitely should not have passed, but I don't know that I did either. But the thing is, even the background check company is called Protect My Ministries. It's not a BCI check. It's not even remotely comparable to what teachers have to go through. Teachers get entered into a system called a wrap back where as soon as they get a charge, it alerts the system. It's just it doesn't even compare. To be honest, I don't even think it's a criminal background check. They call it a consumer report right there on the acknowledgement that you signed. Checking their credit score. I mean, for real, that's that's how it reads. Yeah and and just to just to like give a little more detail to it is that when zach did go through their their process of doing the background check um you know how typically when you get one it tells you like do you want a copy sent to you um there was no option for that and see he had to get the background check first in order well this is this is what they're saying supposedly in order In order to take the certification training, correct, Zach? Yeah. And so he was able to then take that training. So our assumption is that he passed the background check if he was given access to the training materials that he had to take the background check in order to get.
[16:18] Right. Right. I mean, to be fair, that was probably an automatic thing. I mean, to be fair, it was probably an automatic thing that once I did the background check, you know, some bot probably just let me into the training. But nonetheless, the fact is, they didn't do a background check. I did the training and printed off a certificate. I can go buy a LifeWise shirt and start showing up at schools if I wanted to. Absolutely. That's crazy. Yeah. And in this day and age of random school shootings and child abuse in the hands of teachers and administrators, and they're letting them take these kids off campus.
[16:54] It's just mind boggling. It's horrifying. And, you know, and just to just to clarify, Zach, Zach was the team member who did submit himself to the background check. But that was because he as a younger man had some run ins with the law and nothing horrible by any means. but he should not have in any reality passed the background check that a teacher would have in order to get access to public school children. But that still is something where the proof is in the pudding. Like if they're not going to stop someone like Zach with this level of things on his record, are they going to stop someone who has already committed offenses against children, who is already a predator? We don't know. out.
[17:40] Hello, this is Doug, host of Secular Left, reminding you that I like to be validated. If you like this podcast and want to thank me, feel free to buy me a coffee. Go to buymeacoffee.com slash secular left and donate some cash to help make this a better show and validate me as a person. You'll feel better in the morning.
[18:06] Yeah, and then the other thing that really should raise a red flag to any parent is that the school district isn't responsible for anything. Once they get approved, all they have to do is check attendance. That's all they're required to do. That's a good point to bring up. So the thing we found out about the attendance is that the schools are supposed to be tracking the attendance, and they're not. We're finding out that we're getting a lot of back and forth like the schools will say well LifeWise has that information and then LifeWise is like it's up to the schools to have that information and there's no one tracking the attendance this is the answers we're getting with public records requests just to be clear this is not hearsay this is us going and specifically asking places where we know it is implemented and saying we want the attendance records that you have to be keeping and they will not give them they cannot provide them and I don't think they have them.
[19:02] Yeah, that's one of the requests I made with the Findlay City School District was just enrollment. That's all I was asking was how many kids and they've blown me off for two years now. Nothing, no acknowledgement, no denial, nothing.
[19:16] We run into that a lot. Zach, I know, especially has run into that just full on silence. Yeah, I mean, I didn't just have the FFRF. I also had the Ohio ACLU on them when she was in third grade the year after that, after, you know, The other organization didn't do as much as I was hoping they would. I got a hold of Ohio ACLU. And yeah, it's exactly what it is. It's a lot of silence and it's a lot of, well, that's not true. And that's the end of it, unfortunately. And so there's no one to represent the children. And that's kind of where we come in. Minor children can only be represented by their parents. And right now we're the only voice out there as a collective that says, hey, do you know this is going on? Do you have a problem with it? And giving the full information. It's something you mentioned earlier, and I wanted to say the liability of any violation falls to the school. And I think that's a big point that schools need to be aware of. They actually are the ones who are held liable for any kind of violation that occurs, much less the fact that LifeWise isn't going to take the responsibility when it comes to these kids either. They're going to do what they can to push it off on the schools, I assume. The school let them do it. That's what that's what it's going to come down to. is well school let us come in and we were trying to be do a good thing and we were trying to do this and they're going it's going to cost the school money in the end of the day um but the permissions that like i i was not only does it have that it has a disclaimer that is very concerning.
[20:40] Um and we'll give you a copy of one of these an example but it also says very clearly that it's non-denominational and i think that's something that we really need to touch on here because it is not non-denominational. They're getting a lot of spread in Christian communities and well-meaning people are falling victim because they think that it's just.
[21:01] Innocent Bible school like that used to happen in the old days, you know, like old fashioned innocent Bible school. And that is not what this is. They're getting their curriculum from the gospel project, which is published by Lifeway. That's the publishing house for the Southern Baptist Convention. I don't think we need to go over the Southern Baptist Convention, but basically it's bad, bad times, bad news, hateful, hateful rhetoric. And so that's the sort of things that they're passing on to the kids.
[21:30] We have a specific document that we, you know, that really illustrates this point that says, it's called how to answer difficult questions from students. Zach, that's correct, right? Yeah, I have it pulled up. Yeah. And it's got, you know, there's, there's a lot of concerning parts to it, to be honest with you. But Zach, will you point out a couple of them that I think people need to be aware of? And again, Again, this is not a document that's going to be provided to a parent. It's not, it may not even be a document that's going to be provided to a school. It is a document that's going to be provided to a volunteer from LifeWise or to a teacher for LifeWise about how to handle sensitive subjects. If a student should bring up a sensitive subject. Zach, do you have it that you can read? Yeah, I've got it pulled up here.
[22:16] I suppose the first thing that pops out is the family questions. How can I honor my parents, step-parents, grandparents, live-ins who do not follow God? We can't expect people who don't love God to follow Him, but we should still be respectful toward them. When faced with a choice to obey God or our parents, we should always obey God first. I mean, that's pretty concerning to me.
[22:40] My mom's boyfriend lives with us. Is that a sin? My parents are divorced. Did they break God's rules? I mean, these are the kinds of questions. questions and then we have gender identity sex questions what would god think if i changed my gender what does the bible say about same-sex relationships i mean you know what these answers are yeah i mean it's two pages of this three pages of this yeah and if you you know if you don't know what those answers are the sum of it is is that yes all of those things are a sin, um your family's living in sin and the price that you pay for sin is going to hell No.
[23:16] I find some of the things especially disturbing as someone who, like I said, when I first heard of LifeWise was escaping an abusive relationship. And that kind of rhetoric is, I can't explain to you how dangerous it is to tell a young girl that getting a divorce or that having a new boyfriend or a new man in her life is something to be ashamed of or that is a sin. That only reinforces the issues that we have with, you know, abused people staying in toxic and abusive relationships. And faith is a big reason why a lot, a lot of times that happens because it's against their doctrine for them to leave and no matter what. And that's, you know, that's dangerous. That's how we end up with dead women. Yeah, and that was the other red flag. I know I had mentioned about the religious aspect of it was the fact that it only follows a certain, their brand of Christianity. And it excludes Jewish people, it excludes Catholicism, it excludes Jehovah Witnesses. It's very, very exclusive. It excludes a lot. It's evangelical. I mean, just call it what it is. It's an evangelical doctrine. It is 100%. I mean, their entire motto, their entire mission, business model, whatever you want to call it, is to reach unchurched children in public schools.
[24:46] So, I mean, just by definition, I mean, anyone who sort of knows kind of what we're dealing with, with Christian nationalism, who is keeping up with sort of the things that are concerning about homegrown terrorists, things like that. I mean, these are things that are very scary. And when they send a permission slip home that just says, this is non-denominational character building Bible class. Character education is, they love to lean on that. Character education, character education. And, you know, it's the most concern, not the most concerning part. I just keep saying that because all the parts are so concerning. Concerning, but, um, they are targeting places like, like we said, rural, some of these places are lower income. Some of these places have fewer resources, things like that. Um, and so they're, they're already entering a place where things like that are going to be more accepted, if that makes sense. And so it's, it's, it's normal and it's reinforcing these damaging ideas. Yeah. I, um, got introduced to Joel Penton because I was doing some research on his, his fake character-building motivational speeches that he does.
[25:54] Where he talks to school to bring him in, and they have a mandatory assembly where he speaks about building character and obeying your parents and blah, blah, blah. And then at the end, he says, hey, if you like this, here's another part tonight at a local church, or it might be in the building that they just had that assembly, And then that's when he prophylatizes to him. Absolutely. Well, at least my understanding and Zach absolutely interrupt me if, if I'm wrong or if you, you know, interrupt me anyway, but, um.
[26:29] He basically, he goes in, he structures it as a motivational speech. Okay. And I think what you're speaking of is his stand your ground. Right. Or stand for truth. Stand for truth is the name of the ink. Okay. That's what their nine nines say. But it all started sort of with this book that he wrote. And I don't know if he was, I don't know what came first, the book or the motivational speaking. Zach, do you? I don't know. I don't know. but so in 2010 he wrote a book called stand your ground i happen to have it i bought it two times used he didn't get money from me um and so the interesting thing about stand your ground is that it's it's i i haven't noticed very i've skimmed it i've read most of it not all of it so admittedly it could be in here i don't know but it does not say anything specifically very much about religion so what he's doing is he's towing the line with these children in these assemblies right up to the edge and he's saying stand your ground keep your convictions you know what matters to you is important things like that okay which is awesome when it's taken out of context but when you start to add religion into it and like the authoritative issues we have within you know religious organizations and churches then then you can sort of see what what the real message is And I think the other interesting thing about this book is we have it on good.
[27:59] Authority like very good authority someone who graduated school with Joel that this is entirely fabricated that the entire premise of the book is that he had to stand his ground and I'm about Jesus about his faith and that the entire school even his friends turned their back on him and it was the worst moment of his life and he was ostracized and all of this but then of course course, at the end, this paid off and this is his dream, you know, and his dream come true and he stood his ground and that's what made him a man and just, you know, these sort of things. But there's so much detail in this book. I know a couple of people that have read it and the person who went to school with him who said there's no way that these things could have happened and no one know about it. Like the way he writes it is that like it's the whole school, like a footloose situation you know that like the whole like the whole school the whole town everyone knows about this fan were yes it was a fan were really yes i that to me that says that's made up right there.
[29:05] Right exactly exactly and that's why we're like what and and the people that i've talked to who went to school with them or or what have you or their their kids went to school with them they're like they've never heard of that that that should be in fiction but it is an autobiographical book that's what it's what's touted at and you see you see the timeline is very funny too because you've got 2010 he's motivational speaking grifting schools making money got a book to sell too doesn't he 2011 he writes another book because he's got to keep going this one's called seven lies almost every teen believes it was written in 2011 okay so that's a year that's wild um and this This one is very religious. It is so religious. It's insane. Yeah.
[29:57] This is something that you would almost have to go. We have snippets of it. We can share with you and you can share with your audience. Um, but this is almost something that you would have to read to get the big picture of, but, but really it's, um, it's brainwashing for children. It's a team guide for brainwashing for evangelical Christians. And, uh, you see, you have this in 2011, you see him continue, you know, he's a full-time minister. He doesn't like to say that or advertise that, that but for 13 years he was a full-time minister get in that gap um and then come 2023 i don't have a copy of it unfortunately um 2023 in may he's publishing a book called during school hours, and it is about lifewise academy and how he's implemented that into you know the schools and the process and how you can do yeah yeah how he borrowed it from his sister i believe it was his sister was on the board of the church that was doing it yeah go ahead zach well there's a whole bunch of details there that seem to be a little foggy and a little shady but i don't want to get too far into them because we're not entirely sure but yeah i mean there was a program in van worth that he kind of went in there and said how can we do this everywhere the quote out of his book is i need to mcdonald's this thing or something to that effect uh which it's ironic that that's the colors they chose as well. I mean, they're very much McDonald's colors that they're using. He's playing that maniplulation, you know, game.
[31:26] For more information about any of the topics covered in this episode, check out our show notes at secularleft.com.
[31:33] Music.
[31:39] First, they garner 50 signatures from within your community. We tested that theory and turns out they don't care where those signatures come from. They don't care about what the email says. They don't care what the email is. They don't care about the name. They don't care about any of that. What they're going to do is they're going to keep sending you emails when you sign their petition that say, thanks for signing our petition.
[32:03] So, and we went and checked and there's, you know, if you, if you join our Facebook group or, you know, we can provide you some screenshots, Doug. But basically it'll show you the count. If you need 50 signatures, there would be like, you know, 50 of them or 45. And then when we would do this test, there would be 56. There would be one more. There would be one more. Like, so it was actively keeping count of just every email that got plugged into the petition, you know, the website. And then again, the emails were getting multiple. Didn't we use the same email twice? Yep. Yep. I use the same email to sign two different lists and it didn't stop it or red flag. It doesn't matter. Two different lists in two different communities that Zach has nothing to do with just to be clear. So they say that these are communities of interested people within your community. No, they are. They could be signatures from anywhere. This could be one person with access to 50 emails. This could be a church leader with his roster. This could be, they also don't share it. I mean, that's the other thing. I don't believe that they share this list with anybody. No. No, they just, they just go into the district and they say, Hey, everybody wants it.
[33:16] We had 50, however, 150 signatures. Everybody wants it. That's the other thing too. They start at 50 and then it becomes, we need a hundred, you know, they just keep upping it. So, and then eventually the, from signatures, it goes from signatures to donations because this is structured like an MLM. You know, it's, it's everyone at the bottom is begging for money, looking for donations from the community, doing fundraising, selling merch. I mean, they've got their own coffee brand. They have t-shirts and polos and water bottles and everything you can think of.
[33:53] And so there's a lot of money grabbing going on at the community levels. And then you see them, they're paying not very much, by the way, they're paid employees because Because isn't there usually at least one paid employee in a community, Zach? Yeah. The lead teacher. I think some of the teachers as well. It just depends. Yeah. Yeah. Or like there might be a director. Depends on like how big the community is or how many schools are in the school district. Yeah. Yeah. Because they've got the program directors and then they have like a little board and stuff. I mean, that's the thing. There's like seven steps, eight steps. They have them all broke down in PDFs, what you need to do and how you can email the schools and how you can get more interest in your community. And it's all just templates. I mean, it really is. It's just templates of sending this out to everybody. It's kind of crazy. It is. And you pay them so much.
[34:48] Isn't it, Zach? You either have to keep your numbers up. You have to keep your numbers up. And then you have to have so much money to start the program. And if you don't, if you aren't successful, that money gets forfeited to LifeWise program. And then you also don't have the startup money. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. And then it's like, it wasn't, I read somewhere, it was like 20 or $30 a kid for liability insurance.
[35:18] Yeah. And that was something I didn't, we didn't see till later on. Zach, would you agree with that? Like that wasn't, I didn't see a mention of that until later. And I almost wonder if that was an afterthought sort of thing. Yeah, I'm not sure. The communities are the ones that are doing most of the small-time funding, fundraising. But I think the other thing that is important to discuss about LifeWise is the affiliations they have and who's donating to them directly. They've got some very upsetting people that they're affiliated with that have.
[35:55] Spoken about them who have said this is awesome that have promoted them on their programs pack mobile so we know so we know what that is that's the that's the right wing extremist um company sure you can do your own research they've got um we found at least two um promotions from project 25 that have said life wise is where it's at you need to get this in your community It's the best thing since sliced bread, you know, so, and, and project 25, we don't have the time to go and do that here, but you can do your own research. It is terrifying. Uh, if you, you know, Doug, you probably know more about that than I do in all honesty, but for them to, um, be affiliated with that in any way, shape or form, and then also affiliated with our children is, uh, something that keeps me up at night. Well, didn't, was it in, I don't know, you probably didn't tell me before, but didn't somebody read in his book that his goal is to tear down the public school system? Or was that something he said in a podcast or something? I know he's been quoted as saying that his mission is to tear down, Joel Penton's mission is to tear down the public school system and reconstitute it as a Christian school.
[37:14] School i mean he said things to that effect in podcasts for sure that question has been brought up in podcasts you know to that effect i don't know the exact quote but yeah it's also interesting that his kids are all homeschooled you know yeah our public schools aren't good enough for joseph right because it's a cesspool or was he no it's his mission field that's what he calls it that's his mission and i think that's the guy that's the point that needs to be made is how this is so much different than every other RTRI program up until then. These other programs have been running for years without trying to convert the children. That's the big difference here. And I think that point needs to be made there. You know, they, they stand behind these Supreme court cases and they only stand behind half of them. They only point out the little bits and snippets that work for them. There's plenty of other things you can pull out of this Supreme court case law because that's all it is that they're working from. You know, It's a lot of weeds once you start getting into it.
[38:12] Yeah, when Representative Click introduced 445 in his proponent testimony, he claimed that it was a First Amendment issue about religious freedom. And it's like, that is total poppycock. It is not. If a school district doesn't want to have LifeWise, that should be up to the school district. And that doesn't violate anybody's religious freedom. It really doesn't. No. No, because these other programs were traditionally meant for like minority faiths and for public school children who didn't have the resources or the financial resources specifically to be afforded a private religious education, which used to be the only option in this country. You had to pay for a private religious education if you wanted that for your child. That is no longer the case, especially in Ohio. Now we're up against vouchers. We're up against charter schools. We're up against all kinds of things that are an alternative to public school. So if your day to day, if your religion is so important that you need your child to have it during their day to day, during the school week, then there's no excuse why you shouldn't and be able to send them to a school without any financial burden on yourself or your family. And therefore it shouldn't be in our public schools. Now, the only counter I would have to that is that many of the areas, the rural areas of Ohio do not have a private school.
[39:39] And that's one of the knocks about this so-called universal voucher system that we have in Ohio now, is it doesn't help kids really that much in rural communities.
[39:51] No, and we'd have to check. That's something that I've delved into a little bit on the sides here and there as it concerns with LifeWise. But I think there's also like a transportation like budget built into that, though. So like there's money that they're getting to be able to get their kids in rural areas to a private school in a less rural area. So, again, if it's that important, if it's something that is so important to your family that your child can't go without it until a weekend or an after school or before school situation. I don't even feel like it falls into that category, though. I mean, that's the other thing. I don't feel like this program is designed for people who want the religious upbringing for their children. I mean, that's not what it's designed for. It's apples to oranges when you compare it to that. It is true because Parents Against LifeWise, we've said from day one, like we are not anti-RTRI. That's the 1952 Supreme Court decision. The RTRI is Religious Release Time Instruction.
[40:53] And we're not against that, okay, because it has existed for years and years with no issues. Because those these other religions the minority ones they aren't hinged on proselytizing they aren't there is no mission they're not sending the kids back to school with treats and prizes and stories and enticements you know these these kids are you know leaving early at the end of the day to go to temple and nobody else cares you know what I mean like this is just it's never been an ordeal before. And now it's become one. It's creating these imaginary hierarchies within the elementary schools. It has kids crying and not being able to sleep at night because they're worried about going to hell.
[41:34] You know, parents upset because they can't say anything at the school because they're outnumbered. I mean, it's just, it's mess after mess after mess. And then they have their fake research that says kids do better when they attend Bible class.
[41:49] That they paid for. Yeah. Paid for a study. And it's interesting. It's interesting if you start digging into the laws a little bit. My opinion is the reason they have that is because one of the things they stand behind in the law is that the school can push a program like this if there's a secular benefit. Like that's something that, you know, they allow more. What's the word I'm looking for? I don't know. They allow more leeway if you can say there's secular benefit to this. Like our attendance is going up. Our bullying is reduced. Our, um, incidents, they call it, what do they call it? Sometimes they call them like incidences or, um, situations. There's always a code word and basically it's for kids getting in trouble. You know, it's, it's disciplinary action stuff. And so they're saying that there's less of this, less of that. Um, but that's not what we're hearing. That's not what parents are coming and saying to us. That's not what the The testimony says, um, that's not the experience on the ground. It's, it's what they want people to think is happening and what they're paying for people to think is happening.
[42:56] All right. Um, and as I said, you know, you have this group parents against, uh, life-wise, uh, what specific things is your group, uh, doing at this time? Do you mean, I think our biggest thing is spreading awareness and information. That's kind of always been the main tenet and goal as far as me and Molly. We have definitely worked with different groups like the ACLU and Freedom from Religion. Honestly, for Ohio education.
[43:26] I mean, we're collecting testimony from parents and really just trying to be there as a support system. Because when I started dealing with, there was none. There was no information about this program. You know, I had nowhere to turn, no one to talk to, and we just kind of want to be there and be that for other parents, help raise awareness, get people to know. I mean, you know. That's our thing, I guess. Yeah, I think that's important that that there be countermeasures.
[43:55] Counters to the people that want to do this, and that you stick up for your kids and other people's kids. And the fact that they exclude all these other religions, there's over 4,000 world religions in this world. You know, they can't have Bible class for all of those religions. There's just no possible way. So they're going to have to pick and choose. And they can't, because that's a First Amendment violation if they pick and choose. And I think another really valid point to bring up is when they claim that this is character education for this class, that we don't have a character education curriculum for our children. I mean, that there is the discrimination. Our kids aren't being instructed this curriculum like that group of kids is.
[44:38] Well, in fact, during, I think it was either Reagan or Bush, they actually got rid of that stuff because it was liberal. You were indoctrinating kids on liberalism. So they got rid of it. but they demonized it like they did CRT and they stopped it. Any other mention of SEL, social emotional learning, you know, these people, they would be screaming about it because it's indoctrination, but this is the hypocrisy that they're also using that system. Yeah. They ironically have internal, like we've seen documents that they've provided that basically say this. They mimic, they mimic the Ohio standards, to be honest with you, because you can pull the Ohio SEL standards up and it is almost verbatim. Oh, our program does this almost exactly as the Ohio standards state. And at one time they had even said, you know, they had actually said that we use SEL, you know, policies, procedures, whatever. They had said that. And then it was causing so much concern and controversy for their organization that they were like, we need to get rid of this, you know? So it's just deceitful all the way around.
[45:50] All the way around, it's just we keep finding more deceitful things. And Zach brought up a really good point. Not only are our kids not getting the SEL or, like, you know, the same quality education, but we have reports of no new instruction time, like no new instruction classes, where basically if the majority or I don't even know if it's a majority, but the kids that go, they go to LifeWise. And the kids that stay instead of actually doing coursework or being taught or doing what they should be doing. They do busy work. They do busy work where there's no new instruction. That's what they mean. So that the LifeWise kids aren't missing anything, even though it is very clear in the ORC and in the Supreme Court decision that those kids, their parents, whoever, are responsible for the work that they miss when they go off school property. Well, that's the accommodation. I mean, that's part of the school endorsement is that they're accommodating this by taking that time away from our children as well. Or they're doing it like Anthony Wayne schools. They're going to do it during lunch and recess.
[46:56] Yeah. Yeah, that's to overcome that obstacle, as they called it. Yeah. Well, and to that point, I think it's important to note that that is their second option. That is their backup plan. They do not want to come to your district and be there during school and recess. They fight that really hard. tooth and nail at some points they've even said but we'll leave you know they've told districts well we'll leave if you don't accommodate you know us um but what these kids are leaving during is you know what is i would argue with this term but considered non-core curriculum so their specials classes are that's what they're called in some areas which is pe um music art library time tech um things like that these are on rotation a lot of schools and so they will rotate.
[47:45] Missing one of these important classes or instructions in order to go and the children that aren't opting in or whose parents won't opt them in um you know they're they're what not not getting these things not going to these because because the specials are twice a week like the kids that don't go get that special twice a week it's not like the other kids are missing the class entirely they go one week and my daughter goes two days a week she has our class twice a week now, but they don't do anything new. Like she was saying, no new instruction during that second day while all the other kids are at LifeWise. No, we have teachers who have said basically like, look, think about it. How would we do that? How would we keep on track of a curriculum and of a lesson plan when there's all this staggering? How would we know where to stop and start and who knows what and who remembers what? There's no way to keep track of that when you've got half or more of the class that's missing so much. And the other half that has kept learning. Then you're either going back over things the other kids have learned, which we all know what happens to bored poor kids.
[48:50] But, you know, so you've got the other half of the class who has, you know, no idea what's going on. It's all new to them, you know. So it just creates this weird scheduling disparity that the teachers are, honestly, they're having a really hard time dealing with. And I would say across the board we've heard nothing but teachers say that this is bad. It's bad in practice. It's bad every day. It's bad. Yeah, and I think one of the things that can help immensely is if we could find some teachers that will go on the record about some of this stuff, because I know a lot of them won't. Yeah, that's the problem. They're scared to lose their jobs, and with good reason in some areas. In other areas, maybe not, but we can understand why they would be scared. Concerned because in a lot of places in most places this is being pushed by uh you know someone who maybe leads the pta or by their school board even or by um a church leader in the community who is the you know authority on on these such things you know they they're the consequences for them are too big um is what we're finding so far but again Again, we're a little behind, but we're not that behind. They are spreading out from the pilot program in Van Wert, like a disease, just spreading out from Ohio. And so we're getting more reports.
[50:12] They're getting more opportunities to mess up, if that makes any sense. And so we're bound to hear more and we're bound to – they're in – are they in Toledo Public Schools or Columbus City Schools? schools. They're going to areas because it's very obvious to me anyway, that they've got all of Ohio at this point. I mean, for the most part, they've got almost all of Ohio. Well, it's this, it's to me, this is what I think, Zach, you tell me if you think I'm right, but it's rural Christian white communities as we discussed. They've definitely made their mark in the big cities as well at this point. Then they go in to the metro area, which again, historically has some poverty issues, maybe or resources that are lower or their education is overwhelmed by the amount of students. There's some issue, right? So they go directly there. They get their foothold in there. And then like in Ohio right now, we're seeing it in the suburbs. And that's where they're getting the most pushback because those people have the time and the money and the resources to look into what is exactly going on.
[51:13] And that is not the case for people who are struggling that maybe live in a more rural area. And don't get me wrong, we're not stereotyping. We know that these are not always the case, that this is not always, you know, that people in rural areas are Christian, white, or low-income. And we know that the same is true for metro areas. But historically speaking, that is what they're doing is they're preying on these areas that are saying, oh, you're going to come in here and you're going to offer character education to these children who are struggling for free? Yes, we'll do it. We'll do anything you want to do if you say it's going to help. Because we're struggling that hard. That's what they're doing. And so now in Ohio specifically, and in Ohio, we keep talking about Ohio. It's national. Okay. It's in how many states by now? Oh, 20 something. 20 now. I think on this, I could have that number wrong, but they just had their state of the ministry address yesterday. And I want to say it was funny because he said, he said it'll be 25 by 2025. Yeah.
[52:11] So, you know, it's spreading outward, but Ohio is a really good micro-examination of how they're doing things because, like I said, you know, in some ways all the states, we know that people in general are all the same, so there's a lot of consistencies. And so in Ohio, we've seen it. We're seeing it happen in real life. They've had years to do it, and now that they're established, they're doing it even faster in other states. So, again, rural Christian first go into the metro, the suburbs and the more affluent neighborhoods that are more diverse and things like that. Those are the last places. And that's where they see the most opposition. But that's the last place. And by that time, a lot of times we're seeing, you know, there's been a house bill of some sort that's been passed to force them to have an RTI policy, an RTRI policy like we talked about with HB 445.
[53:01] Indiana already has one. Yeah. They just passed it. I think talking about their spread, this is probably a good time to bring up the website, respectpublicschools.com. There's an interactive map on there that shows, I mean, the growth they've had just in the past two, three months has been huge, but you can go on to respectpublicschools.com and get an interactive map and see what stage they're at in your city. And that's nationwide. Nationwide. You can type in your school district name. That's what you need to know is whatever school district you're concerned about, you know, which sometimes our school districts don't always match the name of the cities we live in. So find out that information accurately and go in there and the map will show you what level, remember how we, remember, we spoke about how there's 10 steps for them to get implemented into the district. It'll show you what step that your school district is currently on.
[53:58] Well, Zach and Molly, it was really great to talk to you today about this important issue. This is a very, very important issue that people need to take heed. They need to pay attention. And if they have kids in school, they need to keep up on it because, you know, they're manipulating everything that they can. They're being as sneaky about it as they can.
[54:20] If people want to get involved with Parents Against LifeWise, how do they get in touch with you?
[54:27] They can email us at parents.against.lifewise at gmail or just get on the facebook group that's really the best way search parents against lifewise on facebook it's probably going to be the best way um we're working on a website it's not live yet but we're working on that so hopefully we'll have that up and running soon, That's going to have a ton, a ton of useful information on it, on how to mount your own fight. If you're looking to fight on just the history of it, on where they're headed, maybe there's just going to be a lot of information. And again, you can always join our community. We have both a public page on Facebook and a private group. And there's a lot of information within the private group and a lot of supportive people there that may be in your area. And I'll be looking to find other people that want to, you know, provide an opposition to this. Yeah, I just got at it today, and I noticed there were several people that I personally know that I did not know was in that group.
[55:22] We've grown a lot really quick. I'm glad to see it. Like I said, I've been talking about this and trying to help people for three years now, and this is the most momentum that I've seen by a long shot. Yeah. And we're not, you know, like I said, we're not anti-religion by any means. I wouldn't say that we support RTRI laws because to us, school day is precious. Those minutes are precious. There's no time for any religion in a public school day. But for minority faiths for people who need it special circumstances of course absolutely we're supportive of that of a diversity of any sort um you know and we always make a point to say that we're not anti-religion at all our movement is not about religion bashing it's not about being an atheist or an agnostic or anything like that we have lots of clergy members we have religious leaders within the group um we have you know housewives and scientists and teachers and everything you can think of. And we want everyone to know, because we said, even though our group is called Parents Against LifeWise, parents is just a word we used because of the strength that it contains. Anyone is welcome. Anyone who pays taxes, anyone who's a member of the community, anyone who cares about what's going on in their school that they, you know, contribute to, that their children go to, or that their grandchildren go to, they need to know what's going on. All right. Thanks. Thank you very much, Zach and Molly. I really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for having us. I appreciate it. Yeah, thanks. We appreciate you.
[56:51] This is Secular Left.
[56:59] All right, so the interview you just witnessed was recorded several months ago, a couple months ago. And since that time, there has been an update. and I'm joined here with Zach Parrish, who was in part of the original interview. And what we're going to talk about today is that Zach decided to put up on the internet the entire curriculum that LifeWise uses. This is the curriculum that they have to spend money on. It's part of the gospel project. and I looked at looked it up and it retails for per student something like $1,500 a year and, And so Zach got access to it, and we'll talk more about that, and published it on the internet, put it up on the internet. And LifeWise is now suing him for at least $150,000 as a copyright infringement claim.
[58:03] And so thank you for joining me today on this little extra part of the interview. Zach, I appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for having me. All right. Now, the first thing that we want to clear the air about is that you did not get that material illegally. Is that correct? No, not by any means. Nope. All I did was go through some Google links and type some different URLs in. They've accused me of using brute force slug attacks. I don't even know what that is. They've accused me of using their source code in different reports. Literally, the only thing I did was go to www.whatever slash and then change that backslash to access the different videos. That's how I access the training.
[58:49] The curriculum itself, once I access the training, it was super easy because they have videos showing you how to access it. They say that they only grant teachers access after they they say they only grant paid teachers access. access, but all I did was type in a universal password and I was granted access. There was no login whatsoever to get that curriculum. So, so basically in order for them to dumb down their system for just anybody to access it, you were able to access it. Yeah. And through, through no software or any means like that. I mean, they're, they're literally trying to make it sound like I'm a hacker and I don't even know how to do that type of stuff. And also to be clear too, that they also filed a police report about it and nothing came of it, correct? Right, correct. Yeah, the police report ended with, we don't know if he committed a crime. We don't understand, really. I mean, that's the synapse of the police report, yeah. Yeah, and they did the same thing to that gentleman from Tiffin that has the website, too. They accused him of hacking their system, and all he did was just normal, everyday internet tools, and their website was not secure.
[1:00:01] Right they not only the information that they wanted they not only accused him of hacking they actually threatened felony charges in his cease and desist which is not legal you're not supposed to threaten criminal charges in a civil cease and desist for their lawyers to do that is just unthinkable but they did you know so um when you were notified about this lawsuit uh how did you feel.
[1:00:25] I mean i knew it was coming it wasn't it wasn't a shock to me at all um i feel like i'm in the right that's for sure and the attorneys that i've talked to all seem to think i have a pretty decent case there are definitely different options we can take that we've been talking about so yeah i mean i've never heard of a copyright infringement case coming from a third party usually it's the creator of the material it's supposed to sue right and that's a good that's a good point you bring up because I'm not sure about the legal details of it. But again, some of the lawyers that I've talked to have made it seem like they're not the owners. They own a right to derivative work is how the agreement is written, and that's how it's read. So that is part of what my lawyers have been discussing. Not my lawyers. I haven't paid for one yet. But the people that I've talked to, yeah, they've said that they don't even know if they have the right to make this claim against me.
[1:01:21] And also to be clear too, you did not post this information to resell it, correct? You weren't trying to undermine their business. No, I haven't made a dime off of it. That's their claim to damages. It's so ridiculous. What they're saying is that somebody who wants to start a LifeWise program might come to my website designed specifically in opposition and download the curriculum to avoid paying their licensing fee through LifeWise. That's so absurd. Third, if you think your Christians that are working for you are going to come steal from you, maybe you should think about what you're doing. I mean, the reason is parents need to be able to review this. They won't share this curriculum with anybody, not with parents, not with school boards, not with other clergy members of different churches. If they're coming into our public schools and asking to remove these kids, they should have to meet the same standards of transparency. When LifeWise has been asked to show their curriculum to parents before a program is, was established, they've refused, correct? They offer a 27-page sample, which is also noted in the complaint that they don't not offer it. They don't let people review it. They let them review 27 pages out of a 12-year curriculum. So, yeah.
[1:02:37] And if you could, could you describe some of the information that's available in that curriculum off the top of your head? Ed? It's basic religious stuff. I don't want to get into dragging down the stories and the parables individually, but it's the basic religious stuff. I mean, you're talking about Sodom and Gomorrah. You're talking about the book of Ruth, which is just about being submissive as a woman in my view of that. It's one of the worst books that they talk about is Ruth. You've got references to marriage being only between a man and a woman in the lessons, that type of thing it's the undertones of it it's the interpretation of it and how it's being taught you know that's really the issue with it so so basically it's just uh cherry-picked bible stories, and so i just find it hard to believe that they would claim a copyright on on the holy bible right and i don't understand the materials they have videos i mean that's really what it comes down to is that they had little YouTube videos that they made. But yeah, it's still just telling these Bible stories.
[1:03:47] So they are trying to make a profit off of the Holy Bible.
[1:03:53] Well, they're not trying. They are making a profit. Yeah, they are. Very large profit. Yeah. And are you aware, how much do they charge a local program for the access to the curriculum? Do you happen to know? That's a good question. I do not know because it's not like it's specifically invoiced or billed. It is just part of the initial startup costs that these programs have. It's not like it's a special charge that they list separately. So I don't know what they charge for it. And what is the usual startup charge or the typical startup charge? I don't want to say off the top of my head and get it wrong. I want to say $3,000, but I could be wrong. So this organization, LifeWise, that since 2017 has received 56 grants France totaling almost $4 million is charging local groups thousands of dollars to access Bible stories. And asking these local groups to raise their own money. I mean, that's the other part of it. All of the local money comes from local donations. They're entirely responsible for paying for the merchandise, for the marketing, for the transportation fees. They have to pay for everything at the local level.
[1:05:04] And those payments go to the headquarters, correct? Mm-hmm, correct. Well, I think they put it in a fund. You know, you have a debit card to make purchases with of some of it type of thing. Yeah.
[1:05:16] So this lawsuit, there hasn't been any hearings about it or anything. You've just been served with it. Yes, that's correct. Did it set a court? Has there been a court date set or anything? Do you know? Well, federal court is different than regular court. This is a brand new experience for me. so I didn't know how it works. After they serve me, I have 28 days to submit a response to that. I guess that's the equivalent of pleading guilty or not guilty, but it's all done through paperwork at the federal level, I guess. So I have 28 days since Monday. And is it, you're obviously, you're expecting it to cost you money to defend yourself, correct? Oh yeah, it's going to cost a bare minimum of $10,000 just to even try to get a dismissal. Lifewise very much wants me to settle they have said it in emails they have said it in media requests they requested a jury trial in the paperwork but they're also just willingly offering to settle i have no desire to settle i'm not going to uh we can get it dismissed or i can defend myself and we can fight it but i'm not going to settle because i don't believe i've done anything wrong have they suggested what what it would be to settle it no i imagine they just material down and I'm not going to take that material down until the court orders me to do so.
[1:06:37] And if somebody wants to help you with your legal fees, how would one go about doing that? Oh, we do have a GoFundMe page. You can just look up Stand with Parents Against LifeWise on GoFundMe. I think I'm not sure what the link exactly is. I can provide it to you if you want to put it in the description or whatever. Well, there's a link on your website, too. Yes, yeah, that's right.
[1:06:57] I've updated that website so much in the past week. And also, you know, how how's the reaction been in general to you and to the lawsuit?
[1:07:09] I've been so humbled. I can't even express like how grateful I am. I really didn't expect this outcry from the public. Like there's been such an outcry of support and I knew there would be in closed circles like I expected it from inside of the group. But even when this is being discussed publicly, everybody is very much in my corner and it just amazes me. Um, the group itself has more than doubled in a week. So every news article, the media, you know, they're talking about it. People are paying attention now. And that's why I started this whole process was to make people aware of what was going on and give them a chance to fight back and be, you know, be knowledgeable about the subject. Yeah. And it's probably not the, it's definitely not the only, uh, PR disaster LifeWise has happened. We just found out today that one of their school directors was fired because they had a sexual indiscretion at a school that they worked at as a teacher.
[1:08:13] Not just an indiscretion. Not just an indiscretion. They sent nudes, allegedly, to a student. Right. But imagine that, that that did not get caught until now. Well, I find it hard to believe that it didn't get caught when we have a comment that LifeWise deleted of LifeWise defending this person. They were aware of the charges, not charges. They were aware of the allegations and went out there defending her until they deleted the comment. So it's not that they were unaware, it doesn't seem.
[1:08:41] Yeah according to the news report i read today uh she she was announced in april and then they said that they heard about it and then put her on administrative leave and investigated, last night they heard about it last night when it broke yes so you know and that's one of the things that people have been talking about is that you know and of course to kind of throw life-wise a bone yeah when you don't do a real record check you're going to miss stuff like that because they said the school district sent a letter to the state so would have been on her teaching license file yep she wouldn't be able to be a teacher anywhere in the state of ohio, and actually that though yeah i mean her license was not just revoked she was barred from getting it again i mean that's a second step those are two different things you can get it revoked and And get it back to some scenarios. She got it revoked and was barred from getting it again. Right. And so I'm with you. I think people like that should not be part of the LifeWise programs. I don't want them around my kids. Right. If you can't be paid by a school district to work with kids, you shouldn't be able to volunteer to work with kids.
[1:09:56] Well, it was a great catching up with you, Zach, about this, uh, this situation. And, and I know at least my personally, I, you know, pulling for you and I re I really think that the lawsuit is just, they're just trying to drag you cause they just don't like you. And that that's one of the angles we're looking at as far as defense too, is trying an anti slap angle because this doesn't seem like a winnable lawsuit for them. If that's the case, then that makes it a slap lawsuit. suit and it's just a whole different ball game then so yeah i'm weighing my options to see what we can do and in ohio just passed a law that outlaws slapping so i'm in indiana unfortunately they didn't file it in indiana well they did file in indiana there's similar laws here from when i was talking to the attorneys so i'm really glad you have me on again so you've been really supportive in all this the whole time so i just want to thank you for that well thanks a lot zach and And good luck on your court case. Yeah, thanks.
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