Helping Healthcare Scale
Imagine you're friends with multiple CEO's of billion dollar organizations. You can call them anytime you like and ask them all that they've learned about real estate and investing, including some of their biggest mistakes.
That's the mission of this podcast, to teach the insider strategies used by the big guys to everyday healthcare operators in order to get access to the best strategies and real estate at the best prices.
If you need help finding the perfect location or you're ready to invest in commercial real estate, email us at podcast@leadersre.com.
Helping Healthcare Scale
From Motel Beginnings to Dental Empire: Dr. Himesh Kana's Story of Entrepreneurship and Innovation in Healthcare
Imagine embarking on an entrepreneurial odyssey, navigating the complex terrain of healthcare and real estate, all the while maintaining the essence of patient care. That's precisely the narrative Dr. Himesh Kana, Managing Partner for Dental Depot DFW, shares as we walk through his transformative journey from his beginnings in a small Oklahoma motel to spearheading a dental empire. His tales of early business acumen, cultivated in a family-run establishment amidst economic highs and lows, provide a backdrop to the conversations that unfold about scaling practices and mastering customer service.
Our dialogue with Dr. Kana traverses the evolution of Dental Depot, revealing how a single dental office blossomed into a robust Dental Support Organization. The discussion illuminates the organic growth and strategic decisions that have become the cornerstone of their success, including leveraging real estate insight and nurturing internal talent into leadership roles. Dr. Kana also casts light on how embracing technological advancements like AI can revolutionize patient experience and operational efficiency in an industry often bogged down by administrative challenges.
Beyond the stories of growth and innovation, we dissect the framework of Dental Support Organizations with Dr. Kana, dispelling myths and uncovering the myriad benefits they offer to dental professionals. He shares how Dental Depot fosters a culture of mentorship and collaboration, allowing dentists to excel clinically while shedding the weight of administrative tasks. The discussion extends to the strategic real estate moves and market adaptations that keep Dental Depot a step ahead, painting a future where agility and investment in people make the difference in a rapidly evolving landscape. Join us for an episode that not only charts the course of a thriving dental practice but also serves as a beacon for healthcare ventures aiming to flourish in any economic weather.
If you need help finding the perfect location or your ready to invest in commercial real estate, email us at podcast@leadersre.com.
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My journey is pretty unique and it really comes from my family and my parents. So in a real short, brief moment, my dad was born in Africa, my mom was born in India, my brother and I were born in London, england. We immigrated to the United States in the early 80s and at that time it was really common for Indian entrepreneurs to move to America and get into the hotel business.
Speaker 1:So for the young age I was really enrolled and embraced in the hotel business. At that time labor wasn't easy, so it was easy to have your kids do labor. So my parents obviously had my brother and I do as much hotel labor as we could in the little mom and pop motel they owned in western Oklahoma. So they built a little small hotel in western Oklahoma where I grew up and learned the trends of business and and customer relationships and customer values early in my career, from renting rooms to trying to figure out how many rooms we could sell and what kind of revenue we could make if we sold every room out every night. And so that was an early stage.
Speaker 4:The goal of this show is to help health care organizations scale by leveraging real estate strategies and interviewing high-level health care executives who are actively in the trenches in order to pull out lessons learned along the way. If you'd like a free site selection analysis from our team, or you'd like to learn more about how we're acquiring real estate through our fund on the blockchain, visit us at wwwreuniversityorg and drop us a line that's reasnrealestateuniversityorg.
Speaker 3:Hello, welcome back to helping health care scale. I'm your host, austin Hare, and I would like to welcome our guest, dr Hamesh Khanna. He is the managing partner for Dental Depot DFW. Dental Depot is a 45 year old company with over 40 offices in five regions. It's doctor owned and it's one of the largest privately held DSOs in the country. And Dr Khanna has been with Dental Depot for over 20 years, ever since they had their second location. So thanks for coming on the show today. Absolutely thanks for having me. Austin, let's dive in. I would love to hear your story. You've obviously been doing this for 20 years, but what about before that? What is it that you grow up in the Dallas area? What kind of led you on this path to get involved in the DSO space?
Speaker 1:Sure, my journey is pretty unique and it really comes from my family and my parents, and so in a real short, brief moment, my dad was born in Africa, my mom was born in India, my brother and I were born in London, england, and we immigrated the United States in the early 80s and at that time it was really common for Indian entrepreneurs to move to America and get into the hotel business. So from the early 80s to the young age, I was really enthralled and embraced in the hotel business and well and at that time labor wasn't easy and so it was easy to have your kids do labor.
Speaker 1:So my parents obviously had my brother and I do as much hotel labor as we could and the whole mom and pop motel they owned in western Oklahoma. So they built a little small hotel and motel in western Oklahoma right off the highway in the early 80s, where I grew up and learned the trends of business and and customer relationships and customer values early in my career, from renting rooms to trying to figure out how many rooms we could sell and what kind of revenue we could make if we sold every room out every night, and so that was in early stages.
Speaker 3:What city was this?
Speaker 1:in, it was in Eric, oklahoma, so my hometown is a town of about 900 people. It's a hometown of Roger Miller. For some old theatrical folks who might know who Roger Miller is. Okay, but yeah 900 people, had 24 people in my graduating class and I think I was the only one in my graduating class to go on to a four-year college at the time.
Speaker 3:Really so how did you fill the rooms? Was it just like a destination town?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it was really off the highway and some of the people got tired. They just pull in and park. It was before the internet, it was before hotelscom, it was before reservations. Right, it was a basically a drive by and we did most of our check-ins probably after 8 pm till about 2 am and you were?
Speaker 3:did you work the night shifts? I've worked many night shifts and did you have to wake up for school the next day?
Speaker 1:still, Woke up for school, so this is more on the weekdays, but I did it on the weekend.
Speaker 3:How successful was the business it was tough.
Speaker 1:So in the early 80s when we built that hotel, that we built it in the hopes that the oil boom was going to continue.
Speaker 1:So I got to feel my first recession as a probably 10-11 year old and understanding what a recession was at 8 or 10. And when we went through the oil boom, when we built this little motel about 32 rooms and we couldn't fill a room, we were just gasping for anybody to occupy a room, and those are the days where we were renting rooms at $19, $20 a night. Wow, you can imagine all the lessons to be learned at a very early age with real estate and operations and really a recession and tough times and labor shortages. In a town of 900. We're going to deal with labor shortages. We couldn't find a housekeeper in Eric, right, so we were our own housekeeper, our own front office people, our managers, we were on our repair people. I learned how to, very early age, repair televisions and air conditioners and hot water heaters.
Speaker 3:It sounds like I got you thinking about the importance of a strategic site selection.
Speaker 1:A lot of yes. I wouldn't select that side again if I had to in West Virginia, but you know what it taught my brother about a ton of lessons.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:We've been only successful by having two amazing parents. He really poured into us. Neither of my parents got a chance to finish middle school education, so we moved to. Their primary goals was that my brother Nigo get educated. He's now a successful lawyer in Dallas and I went on to become a dentist.
Speaker 3:whether I'm successful or not, he's seeming to be doing just fine, and then put a pin in that sort of close out that chapter. Is it still up and running? Did they sell it? What happened?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so my parents. We retired them when Rockish and I got really comfortable in our careers. We decided that the hotel industry was changing the invent of internet and technology and computers and all that stuff that my parents were not very well versed at. We asked them in around the early 2000s, about 25 years into their career. We asked them to actually sell everything and we actually divested them out and then they're retired. They've been retired since they were like 50s.
Speaker 3:So I had a happy ending after all.
Speaker 1:Okay, and then Great.
Speaker 3:From what I hear, oh, good, Okay, and so then that after that you went on the you said you're going to college. I think. I lost you there for a second. Yeah, sorry. After that you said you're going on to college.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I went out of college at University of Oklahoma and then spent four years there getting my undergrad degree and then went on to dental school right there at the Health Sciences Center in downtown Oklahoma City. And that's how I got through my educational part of my inner, graduated right in a millennial graduation of 2000,. Year of 2000.
Speaker 3:Okay, very cool, all right. So then, when you, what was your first job out of that? When you graduated from dental school, did you know that you wanted to have your own practice? Do you want to be an associate? What was your thinking like at the time?
Speaker 1:I think as you grow up, in anything, everyone's dream is to own their own practice. I think everyone goes to dental school with a hopes that we'd all own our own practices one day. I was no different. I went to dental school, but I also realized I didn't want to be in a really small setting, and I actually went to a group that is now owned by a very large national group and this was probably DSOs before DSOs was even around and it was a doctor in Oklahoma City who had a handful of offices and built six or eight or 10 of them in Oklahoma City and had done very well with it, and so I took a job there. My brother went on to law school in Denver and I really wanted to leave Oklahoma. So after a year of staying with this group, I ended up going to Colorado where I practiced, only to have 9-11 happen just literally as I was moving out there.
Speaker 1:So it was a couple of years with that and the recession. So they're going to lend it to my kind of second recession, if you will, of dealing it in my adult career or career here, and so practice in Colorado a couple of years, build an office two offices out there and then move back to Oklahoma. And when I moved back to Oklahoma, dr Ashmore and Del Nippa had recruited me out of dental school. I opted not to take the position. I was back in town and I knocked on the door and said hey, I'm back. If you guys are looking for a dentist, I'd love to come back and hopefully you guys take me in. And I was just 29 years old and Del Nippa and team said hey, would love to have you back at the South office where we recruited you back in two years ago. And off I came and I joined the group right around 2002-2003.
Speaker 3:Wow, okay. So what was it like at the time? How was it evolved since then? I know that was a loaded question, but that was location number two. Right, location number two, yeah, okay. So at that stage, did you plan, did you know you were going to continue to grow and scale and have all these locations, or did it happen organically?
Speaker 1:You know it was a really interesting scenario. It really happened organically Two or three years, knowing that my background was in real estate and my parents had built and then managed several hotels in their career. But I was in, I was in the real estate and the building and all of that. Of course, obviously, the tax consequences were always nice. My dad always used to teach me as a kid about depreciations and things as a kid.
Speaker 1:And so around 2004 or five, before we'd even open more offices, we had a couple of partners now looking to join and keep building more Dnell depots. We all went to Glenn and said, hey, partners in this thing? And we really don't know what that means, and I'm not sure that Glenn really knew what that meant back in the early 2000s. He says, great, you can be a partner, my kids are going to be Dennis, pick another region. I said it's funny, I want to be in Dallas anyway, and so do you mind me having a Dental Depot in Dallas? This is around 2005. And so, yeah, we'll partner up and build the location and open in 2007.
Speaker 1:That was my first location in Dallas and so we really didn't know back then and DSOs really didn't exist and we had the Heartlands doing some of the things they were doing, but it wasn't really well known.
Speaker 1:The ADSOs and a wonderful job were really encompassing and the DOS and some nice stuff about really encompassing group practices and really putting us on the map a little bit.
Speaker 1:But even then we really weren't really looking to be a DSO and it wasn't till recent years that we decided to formulate a proper DSO and a lot of that was just organic growth and, as what we were, our perfect scenario was is our doctors came in and became very successful junior associates and when they really understood that our pattern, how we did dentistry and how we cured our patient care model, it was better just to turn them into partners. And so ultimately, these doctors slowly, as we wanted to expand and grow, we just came to say, hey, we're looking to grow and would you guys like to join us and become partners and open your own location? And off we went and we started to storm of doctor owned offices that were groomed internally and so our doctors that are with us, their junior associates, are getting groomed to become partners in our next locations and it just self feeds the situation and at this point we could probably grow them as fast as we can find quality partner doctors.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's crazy. That's the bottleneck now is the labor shortages.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the challenge today. I think it's in any industry I pay good folks in all the industries, whether it's banking or restaurants, or Whether it's retail or whether it's dentistry. Post-covid, there's just been a real hard crunch, and not just the labor market, but also just the quality of labor market, and we've also seen a massive increase in wages, and so we're all trying to find that balance between increased wages, holding on to team members, finding quality, making sure the service of Our patient cares at the highest level. But it's really made us to shift our model to really, you know, we spend a lot of time investing it back into our teams, and that's where we found our real successes that instead of investing on other stuff, we just keep investing back into our teams, and that allows to continue our growth model.
Speaker 3:And year over year? Well, and so, on that note, have you guys Looked at increasing Automation, where you can just given if there's work to be done and nobody to do, it, something's got to give, so, like you got to automate something. So have you guys been exploring that?
Speaker 1:we have our Partners in Oklahoma City and us down here in Dallas. We're using technology and using AI and Several facets internally of where we can do things that are much larger scale, everything from RCM to phone automation, centralizing services and whether it's in sourcing, outsourcing. We're getting as creative as we potentially can, knowing that there are things that we can control. To me, in the perfect world, a phone would never ring in a dental office because we could help control some of that centrally, but the teams would then be really focused on a care of the guests that walk into our building. And so I think there's gonna come a day where we are able to be have a lot less phone calls in our building and have more concentration on the actual patient that's physically in the building, because the warmest patient that we can do dentistry one is the one that's already in the building. And so Pivoting model to continue to drive better, better patient care, better outcomes, better service models in order to do that, we have to be able to consolidate those services so that maybe those team members aren't having to do the things that what we've done in the last 30 or 40 years, and dentistry really hasn't changed a lot when it comes to the operations of dentistry in 2030, 40, 50 years?
Speaker 1:Right the answer phone, you book a patient. We have to start really innovating how Patients communicate with us online scheduling and all the things that patients don't want to pick up the phone anymore and we use. Consumers don't want to pick up the phone. Right, I can shoot with somebody. I would rather chat with somebody, then pick up a phone and wait on this what is?
Speaker 1:happening in our industry, or actually so what's happened in our culture?
Speaker 3:Yeah for sure. Yeah, I dread it as well. Right, like you can't blame them, because whenever you, when I get a call, what is it? More often than not it's spam or it's somebody trying to tell you something, and then, when you call out, what happens? You get put on hold and you got to wait for all these things. And it might not be the case at your office, but we don't know that. The consumer doesn't know that and yeah, it's like one of those things you want to. I Don't know. Skate to where the puck is going is the correct term, because it seems like the puck's already there, that's when he says you go before the pub gets there right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I was with up there.
Speaker 1:I think all of us in our industry are trying to innovate and stay ahead. I guess when you know norms industry leave leaders in our industry that are doing some great things and we pay careful attention to them, they're really changing we can do it in a dentistry. We're not really in competition with each other. There's plenty of dentistry to be done.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly. I mean Scott says you're in competition books and the couch, and it's just really the lack of going, more so than it's having too many people. If everybody could, just Would go and get the service that they need, the care that they need on their mouths, and that's all the problem.
Speaker 1:We wouldn't want to do it ourselves right, we wouldn't have enough dentists in this country, so it's so you'd be to get patients into the chair right, get them to the door. That's what we need to. That's the drive this country should have.
Speaker 3:You guys have a very strong theme, calling it the dental depot destination, right? I would love to hear the story about how you guys decided to theme it and if you could just walk us through what a store looks like.
Speaker 1:Dr Lynn Ashmore, who still practices dentistry today, is a native of Oklahoma City and then he graduated from Oakland City High School up there and went down to SMU, got his bachelor's degree and then got into the stent in the Navy and then went into the dental school at Baylor.
Speaker 1:And then, after he graduated, he met his wife, arlene, who was a hygienist at the time with him, and they moved back to Oklahoma City and decided to put themselves right close to where he grew up his whole life and Started a small dental office in a small house in central Oklahoma City, probably not more than a thousand square feet, built some dent chairs into it, has a trained member in his wife, really passionate about train memorabilia, brought it in to re-crafted the practice as dental depot and dental depot was born. And so over the years Glenn and Arlene and their family have traveled around the country collecting train memorabilia and artifacts and just, they were just trained enthusiasts. And so ultimately, when we decided Glenn said was losing a lot of doctors over the years train a ton of doctors that leave to go their own thing. So he finally in 2001 said, hey, let's just build my own office and we'll have a doctor when my own doctors grow it, as opposed to keep losing doctors.
Speaker 1:At 23 years into his career he built a second office, but we all noticed it just took off, and so it was a real estate built this beautiful turn sentry Santa Fe themed train station In South Oklahoma City, and we in it just took off, and so we realized that there's a really interesting correlation between real estate and Operations. Obviously very expensive model, but that allowed us to be at the corner of Maine, and Maine and there's no secret is location, yeah, any secret that we have but we every, yeah, every industry wants it.
Speaker 1:Every industry has it. We have some science behind how we look at our our location, so that we we've had 40 locations and we've hit home runs pretty much in all 40 locations, and so we have different things that we will look at in our locations. But that's how we got started and ultimately it became a very big business. We now have a team of people that do nothing but year-round curate and collect train memorabilia. That is their full-time positions. They, if you go to Oklahoma City State Fair, you'll see a dental depot booth. If you go to any parts of anything in Oklahoma City that, you'll see a lot of trained them and stuff that Glenn's given back to the community. And now we come into Dallas we're doing the same thing, and then Phoenix, and then Kansas City and some of the other Markets that we represent Tulsa. Those are the five markets that we're currently in and we're looking to expand. Good doctors want to come in and take our model to a different region and we're excited to grow with them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's. I think it's really cool, like myself being in having short-term rentals and cleaning them out. It's really makes all the difference. So like it's a really cool feature. It's definitely marketing right, Like I'm sure having that Santa Fe themed dental office in the quarter of May to May and probably served as a big component of your marketing budget right.
Speaker 1:No, and it does, and that's why we can actually offset some of a marketing budget into our real estate budget. Right, it's a one way or the other. Right, you can spend over time in marketing budget, but we found that it works little state and it works when we still have a nice marketing budget that we still out life because it's needed. But being at a very Point of use location where it's very visible on a main street is also helps as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we talked about rent being a factor of your marketing, because you're gonna have to pay it one way or another, like you said, and so if you sign the lease up front, okay, you're gonna have a 2% bump or whatever 3%. But how much are your digital ads gonna increase? Right, because those are bidding platforms and so, like Facebook and Google, in all those places, you're just gonna go up and up.
Speaker 1:And back when we started this model, that wasn't an issue right, we, google wasn't the elephant in the room. That they become the elephant in the room over the last 10 or 15 years and we're all having the same sandbox for right and to. Google is not gonna let out their secrets and but it's. There has been a pivot in real estate to digital marketing and digital real estate. I think there's a real need for digital real estate today as much as there is physical real estate and a big proponent of both, and so Think before we could get away with them without so much of that advertising. But I think that is pivoted in the last couple, especially COVID postcode, to this pivoted.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, the path to 40 locations had to be crazy. Let's talk about your de novo strategies. I mean, is what's the first step? Is they identified in the location? You said you run your own analytics. I know you guys like to buy the real estate too. Yeah, let's talk about that for a moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we really look at locations based around some good operating partners, right? So we're gonna go identify good locations when we have good identified partners?
Speaker 1:And we've got a lot of doctors are group that are now Strategically moving into that partnership role with us.
Speaker 1:So when they get ready to be partners and they can actually get invest into the real estate and the practice with us, what we'll do is we'll go out and look for locations with them and we'll do all over all the kind of setups and do on the back end and then our teams will go in there and actually do the Construction, then civil engineering, the architectural, all of it internal, and then we'll go hire, bid and get those things built and then our Design team comes and then turns into a dental depot within 48 hours. So when we have our architects and designers all get involved and they all look at the drawings where the trains are gonna come through, each of the ceilings and each of the operators, all that's designed out so that when we get ready to give turn key to our design team, they're gonna come in, a truck, comes in, a team comes in and within 48 hours it is ready to be opened as a beautiful dental depot.
Speaker 3:Wow. So when you're doing the site selection process, are you looking for second generation spaces, are you looking for empty pads or you do ground up development? Is there preference there?
Speaker 1:So primarily for most of our career we have used, had sites and or and done it. We've done a little bit of development. I think Dr Glenn has done some development. I've done some development down here in Oklahoma City, I'm down here in Dallas. We're not developing something we would get into if we had the right piece that we could piece together, and we've done it in a couple of our locations. But we'll buy pad sites and typically architecturally design and build it. In the last couple of years, because buildings have become available, we've gone to second gen buildings and retrofit them as well and it really depends if it fits our need, it fits our locations and well, once we get into an area we want to be, and we're gonna scour everything in that area to see what would be a best fit, right, and then put our pools, our measuring scales, our secret sauce, if you will.
Speaker 1:What? We think will make us successful. That will overlay all that. To determine then a good size selection for us.
Speaker 3:So is it a? Is it necessary? Is it a requirement that you be able to purchase real estate, or have you ever done lease deals?
Speaker 1:So what? We're 100% real estate on, so we currently do not have any lease Buildings in our portfolio. We've owned and lease back to ourselves, if you will.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but we don't have any tenant based dental operations currently. Now market shifting and we are seeing some different things in our market and you know, internally We've had some nice discussions of possibly pivoting into into retail locations, but we haven't made that leap quite yet. It's not something that we have done well yet, but we have definitely had some interest in because we're getting a lot of People who would like to join us or have their practices join us and now we're trying to sort out how we would want to go navigate through that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so in terms of joining, I know that you also got allow the Primary associates to purchase the real estate to, so can you walk through what that looks like for the partners?
Speaker 1:We got to have an op-go prop go and so we have an op-go company that'll have the operational side we're DSO and we'll have a prop go which is property side. So our doctors can actually take an invested interest in our real estate, so they can actually buy into the prop go and have a dividend come up the real estate side along with having the operation side and then have a vested interest in the DSO as well, and so allows them to be an entrepreneur at both levels. And it really has been a great formula for us, because our doctors then get to be really true entrepreneurs, but at a real estate level and an operational practice level, and Our partner doctors are really helping driving their practices right. So not are we just providing all the support for them, we're also giving all their mentorship of how to really drive and run successful businesses.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love it and creates a lot stickiness, as they like to say a lot stickiness.
Speaker 3:So we were talking earlier off camera just about market trends and it's just been crazy. We've I've been having a lot of conversations about how hard it is right now, but also, if we think back To the past, it always we have we the past, with rose colored lenses, right, because it's oh man, I wish we had our. I wish it was like 21 and everything was going up on 21. We're everybody said, oh my god, prices of assets are crazy. I wish it was like 20, when everything was flat and lintel stretch below. And then in 2020, we're like, oh my gosh, we just had the Kobe pandemic. I wish it was like 2019. Yeah, there's no normal right.
Speaker 3:That's one of the things that I've learned over the past couple years there's no normal, but you can definitely be strategic. So, like, how are you guys trying to be strategic right now?
Speaker 1:Strategy is funny, right, it's just one of those things that do we have a crystal ball that we can really strategy, or is it some of it's just luck and heck, we just figured just in time and you get to hear people and you know, no one really has a first ball, look, look for it. I've talked, I've been some civil financial analysts and Talk here in recent three or four months because that's been a really interesting thing about just not just global, not but local economies. But global economy is true, right, we, we're understanding that Germany may be the first European country to start slipping into a recession, so we're really paying care, attention abroad. But because it's gonna have an impact in the US and I think, as far as strategy of what we're trying to do, it's just an interesting environment that we're in.
Speaker 1:Historically, when one is up, something is down right. We've not normally seen high interest rates and and low unemployment rates, or we've not seen high construction rates and high Interest rates or high construction cost interest rate. Yeah, what's interesting is is that there's this interesting curve. First time in our history we're starting to see it in the scales and trends that they're all peeking out at the top at the same time, which is super high, super low unemployment. We've got high interest rates at high construction costs and the labor market's tight, and so it's. We've not really seen that a whole lot in our history so much.
Speaker 1:And this is why I think we're gonna have to lean on technology and navigate things a little differently.
Speaker 1:We're gonna have to come out of this with different solutions than we've had in the past. Right, I always say every year. I tell my team in order to have a better 2024, we have to reinvent ourselves. We can no longer do what we did in 23, because that's non-existent anymore. So what are we gonna do in 24? It's gonna create something new. That makes us different and Every year I ask the same questions and get to this time of the year is what are we going to do different next year? That's gonna make us better than we are this year.
Speaker 3:We are like that.
Speaker 1:But we can't do the same thing next year and have a expect a better outcome. We're going to have to pivot. So I think some of the strategy is just internal really understanding your business model Whatever your business model is really understanding, sitting back and taking a look. Sometimes we get so ingrained in running the day-to-day that we don't step back and look at it a hundred thousand foot view. And when you do, you will really be able to stake a look at different components for business. Just tweaking one thing may ratchet three to five percent revenue right, and we're looking at. We'll look at different things to have one to two to three percent revenue increases in different areas. And if we do when we, when the dust settles, we could have a 10 15 percent growth in our year.
Speaker 1:And that's what Jack, our CEO, co-ceo, looks at every year open Oklahoma City Glenn. Does we teach our doctors to do this? It's been ingrained in us. Glenn's been a phenomenal mentor and a very fiscally responsible person in my 20 some years with him. He's just very dialed down and very fiscally responsible. So I think it's just going back to just economics 101 and basics.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you're moving forward. How are you guys adapting? Are you are making any pivots that you talked about so far?
Speaker 1:We're going to stick to the model. Glen and Jack feel the model continue to grow with us. We feel down here in Dallas we will probably look at some different markets within it we may go to secondary markets versus the primary main Dallas market. We've had some good lucks not being in the major city but being a secondary market. There are still a lot of patient needs right and so being in the challenge you have is most young doctors will be in the heart of Frisco, texas, or heart of uptown Dallas and that's probably not the best place to practice dentistry and we're looking at things. I think that'll give us a lot more growth and better outcomes.
Speaker 1:As far as pivoting our model, like I said, we may look at some acquisitions and we've had groups have some interest in joining us in the future. I feel that could be something coming years that we'll start pivoting into. I think there's some great opportunity for us and synergies for us and other groups to get involved and to grow our model and it will put some of our stuff into theirs and their stuff into ours. I think the future is really bright. I know that we're looking at this micro recession and I heard some stat not very long ago that a decent or small percentage of DSOs may go into receivership in the next 12 to 18 months, and it depends on if you were over-levered.
Speaker 1:We're a very under-levered company. We don't go out and do stupid debt and we don't go out and do crazy things and we just stick to the formula Glenn taught us 20 years ago. And we're very under-levered and we're in a good position. I really feel. You know, as I've told my team here in Dallas, I'm just excited to get to 24. We may hit a micro recession, but we're gonna apply right through it.
Speaker 3:And so growth in terms of number of locations. That's been like steady, consistent on the up and up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we pretty much had a pretty sizable KGAR in double digits for probably 20 straight years now.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 1:And that's really unheard of in any industry, less the endill industry.
Speaker 3:So Could you break that down for listeners? Yeah, so.
Speaker 1:You know you're comp-on annual growth rate, right? So basically we've had 18, 20% annual growth rate for 20 probably plus years straight. Now I don't think we missed it in two years.
Speaker 1:And I think that goes to say something about what Glenn has started, what the group is doing attracting quality doctors and team members. I think it just goes into saying that this is a formula and, mind you, we've done that now in terms of through three recessions, two and a half, two to three recessions. Right, and what was interesting, our recession years were happening to be some of our best years, and so the recessions are proud of us. We just tend to grow because we have stayed right down the middle of this. We're not going to sway to the one-sided industry or way over on the cosmetic side of dentistry. We're going to be treating America for what America needs to be treated for, and with very skill-.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love that, I love that. Do you think that there are any like commonly held beliefs in the industry in general that you disagree with?
Speaker 1:The disbelief that I'm challenged with right now a little bit, is that there's this stigmatism about being a DSO or being part of a DSO, and the one I think that needs to be changed. I think there's a lot of good that DSOs can do. A lot of that is that they provide a lot of back and support training, support, guidance, mentor all the good things I think good DSOs are doing right, and so you hear a lot of these young doctors and young clinicians coming out of school. We've been told not to go to a DSO. I want to combat that.
Speaker 1:I think when you find yourself in a good group setting that's got a good mentor leader, you will do well. And a doctor early in their career or a high-tenance early in their career or an RDA early in their career. If they can get into good groups like ours or some of the other good groups out there that really do things really well, they'll have some good careers. They may not be forever, but what they'll do is they'll really grow. So I think one of the stigmatisms I like to fund is that DSOs are innately bad.
Speaker 1:They do a lot of and because they can do it in scales, they can have better pay, they can have better benefits, and so this is, I think and this is me being the non-DSO person for most of my career right, but now that we flip, we can realize that we have a lot of our teams get a lot of benefits. They a solo practice may not get.
Speaker 3:No, I think that's so true. Yeah, there's definitely a negative stigma around group dentistry still and it's just becoming in these camps so forward against and they're getting like more and more territorial about it. But yeah, like with the taco costs going up, it's almost like impossible to just go out there and do it on your own. So just because you joined DSO doesn't mean you're hanging out with the man. There's equity opportunities, right Like you become co-owners of a larger group.
Speaker 1:And there's so many great DSOs that allow doctors to become equity partners. And what our doctors have loved is that they can become innate partners running the clinical component. They don't have to worry about exclaim not getting paid right and they don't have to go wrestle down an insurance company because we're gonna manage that in the back end. Right, we're gonna do some of your hiring and firing and all your HR stuff. I don't know a doctor that gets up and says, hey, today I wanna spend my entire day fighting insurance. Give me a hand if someone's doing that.
Speaker 1:But this is what good group practices will do and this is what Glenn and Jack have designed phenomenal in Oklahoma City, our teams here at Dann and Dallas and regionally. But we'll do all the legwork so that you can come in and really focus on the love of that team and clinical for those eight hours a day that we were open and allow those doctors to be innately invested with the team and still have a decision-making capacity for that practice. And it's been a wonderful blend of ownership and what we call co-ownership of our practices that allow our doctors to really practice at the highest level, attain some of the highest incomes. I think our junior associates and associate partner doctors. I think Jack will be the first to tell you that it will be hard press to find groups whose doctors make as much as ours do.
Speaker 3:No, that's great. Well, as we come close to closing, is there anything that you wanna talk about that we maybe didn't get a chance to talk about?
Speaker 1:No, I appreciate you taking the time to have Dental Depot and our organization is part of your podcast here I see like so we've been excited to be part of the Depot family for better half of 20 years and Glenn still, who practices dentistry in his early 70s, is still grinding it and really putting time and passion into doctors. But we've been blessed. Anyone who wants to learn a little bit about us contact S3, I'm sure Austin can put out some information on our website.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what's website? Or LinkedIn, or like, what's the best way to contact us?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can contact us through LinkedIn. We've got Dental Depot LinkedIn. I've got my own LinkedIn at Hemish Canna. You can go to our website, dentaldepotnet or dentaldepodfwcom. We've got regional websites too. Yeah, feel free to. Anyone can reach out to us and even if they just wanna understand a little bit of how we do some things, and we're a very open group. One of the things Melinda and Jack have been really good about is we're a very transparent organization. When a doctor perspective member wants to come talk to us, we're open bucks. We'll show them like what our doctors are doing. We don't wanna hide it. Our doctors are proud of it. They'll go out and they'll be our biggest resource of projecting to others how well our docs and they're happy.
Speaker 1:I think, if the happy doctors in place, we're okay.
Speaker 3:I love that. Okay, hey guys, real quick. If you're a multi-site healthcare group looking to grow, then we've got a program especially for you where we help you buy the real estate and select sites that out position the competition. And so, in closing, just wanna thank Dr Canna for coming on the show and, yeah, we really appreciate your time. Appreciate it, guys. Bye.
Speaker 2:If you need help finding the perfect location for your practice or you're ready to invest in commercial real estate, email us podcast at leadersreecom. That's podcast at leadersree as in realestatecom, or go to leadersreecom and fill out our form. See you next time.