Tamar Greene: Diving in and Dreaming

When the spotlight hits, the heart races; it's the thrill of the stage, the power of a story well-told. That's precisely the electrifying energy Tamar Greene, our star guest who's currently donning the revolutionary boots of George Washington in the Broadway hit "Hamilton," brings to this episode. Tamar isn't just a performer; he's a first-generation American with a tale of resilience, a beacon of social advocacy, and a tech-savvy maestro who weaves his cultural tapestry into every note he sings. Our candid conversation traverses the many layers of his life—from the rhythms of his dual heritage to his work with HAM for Progress, diving into how his academic pursuits in Music and Computer Information Systems lend a distinctive timbre to his artistic voice. 

Every artist's journey is marked by personal crescendos and cadenzas, and Tamar's is no different. We share a laugh over the humbling experience of mastering a manual transmission, and Tamar bares his soul about the metamorphosis from backstage jitters to center stage triumphs. His insights on fatherhood resonate with anyone trying to juggle life's many roles, underlining the beauty and growth found in life's upheavals. Moreover, Tamar's story echoes the sentiment that challenges—be it a high-stakes performance or the intimate release of a personal music album—are merely stepping stones to our greatest versions.

Wrapping up our heart-to-heart, Tamar pulls back the curtain on the less glamorous side of the limelight. From vocal mishaps to financial faux pas, he shares the wisdom gleaned from each stumble and the fortitude to rise again. It's a testament to the passion that fuels the performing arts, where ambition meets authenticity. As Tamar discusses his harmonious dance between opera and musical theater, his soul's resonance with the latter, and his aspirations for sharing his gifts, we're reminded that the journey is as captivating as the destination. So, brace yourself for an episode that strikes a chord and sings to the dreamer in all of us.

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Transcript

Lisa Hopkins: 0:24

This is the Stop Time Podcast. I'm your host, lisa Hopkins, and I'm here to engage you in thought-provoking, motivational conversations around practicing the art of living in the moment. I'm a certified life coach and I'm excited to dig deep and offer insights into embracing who we are and where we are at. So my next guest is currently starring as George Washington in the Broadway Company of Hamilton. He has appeared in the Broadway national tours of Love Never Dies, the sequel to Broadway's Phantom of the Opera, the Gershwin's Porgy and Bess and Broadway celebration of Harlem's Golden Age After Midnight, and was seen as the crab man at the Spoleto Festival's production of Porgy and Bess and as featured singer in the PBS broadcast of Showboat at Lincoln Center.

Lisa Hopkins: 1:14

He's a proud first-generation American, born of Jamaican and British parents, and a versatile artist whose musical passions mirror his eclectic background. As a writer, arranger, classical pianist and singer, he combines much of his inspiration from classical music, reggae, hip-hop, r&b, blues and jazz. His passion for performance and teaching is matched by his passion for social and racial justice. He's an original member of the Hamilton Racial Justice Task Force, now called HAM for Progress. Through his work on the task force, he has helped to organize company-wide efforts to raise census awareness, increase national voter registration and put action to the importance of investing in communities of color. He holds a Master of Music from the Eastman School of Music and two bachelor degrees from SUNY Oswego a BA in Music with a focus in vocal and piano performance, and a BA in Computer Information Systems from SUNY Oswego a BA in music with a focus in vocal and piano performance and a BA in computer information systems from SUNY Oswego as well. I am so looking forward to getting to know Tamar Greene. Welcome, tamar.

Tamar Greene: 2:20

Hello Lisa, how are you doing?

Lisa Hopkins: 2:23

I'm doing well. I can see you're responding to hearing me read that back, right?

Tamar Greene: 2:28

Yeah, I was like listening. I was like actually listening to the things, I was like oh, yeah yeah, those are things. Those are things that happen. You know, it's been a wild ride.

Lisa Hopkins: 2:39

Yeah Well, sometimes it's nice just to sit here and honor you for taking the ride. I mean, we could talk about your credits and yada yada. But at this point, here you are, the human, the human behind the headlines, sitting with me, taking a time to you know. Remember that you're, you're real and I see you.

Tamar Greene: 3:00

Wow, thank you. I appreciate that. I really do Like it is sometimes rare to to have this moment of like just being just being real, you know, and not having to, yeah, be anything else. But correct.

Lisa Hopkins: 3:14

Ps, if you've done it, it ain't bragging so and you did it so, so I do honor you. I mean, I honor you for them. It's pretty impressive yeah, well, I appreciate that, yeah so there's thing, there was one thing in your bio that you know, one thing is not like the other. I'm so curious. You know what I'm talking about. So. So how's that computer information systems thing serving you? These?

Tamar Greene: 3:39

days. You know it is, it was it serves me. Actually it does serve me. I've learned a lot about.

Tamar Greene: 3:50

I've always grew up loving technology and wanted to learn more about it. And I grew up first a musician and with a family of musicians and appreciators of music. But I always had the tech mind. I always had the tech mind. And so when I was going to choose a college degree, I kind of just decided to not do the music thing because I didn't know what it meant to have a career in music. I'm like I'm not going to, I'm going to, I'm going to do something else. And so I recognized that you know the tech passion of mine and just chose a degree.

Tamar Greene: 4:25

Basically, I literally went to the advisor and like I know computer something and then she opened the book and like there was a ton of computer things and I literally just picked one but it. But it served me well. I learned a lot of coded. I've done database management. Actually, after I graduated from Oswego I actually got a job as a tech support manager for a little bit before I went to my master's program. So you know, I got some of that exposure and now it helps me with audio engineering and things like that, because I understand that world. Or working with the crew at a show or something like that and understanding what they need when they tell me to take care of my mics your well is so deep.

Lisa Hopkins: 5:07

Where does that come from? Where does this I get the sense from you? I don't tell me to take care of my mics. Your well is so deep, where does that come from? Where does this, this I get the sense from? I don't know you, but just I did. You know, I did some research, obviously, and I'm getting the sense that your well runs so deep, of what you're interested in, where you could go talk to me. Where does that come from?

Tamar Greene: 5:25

oh, oh, that's a good question. I think that comes from. I think, honestly, comes from being a first generation American. I think I have a. I've bonded often and I love to bond with other first generation Americans, no matter where they come from, because we have similar stories of our parents being from somewhere you know solidly from there and they're immigrants here. We carry that culture here, but we also recognize that we are raised in a different culture and so we play this game of trying to figure out all the things and understand all things, uh, while trying to be our parents, you know, like whatever country you know, and also be also American enough in a way, you know, and so it's like it's just, it's this weird dichotomy of really loving where I, where my history is and my you know ancestral history, but also wanting to establish myself here and be that goal that my, you know, the dream that my parents, our parents, wanted, you know. So I think I really feel like that's probably where that comes from, with me wanting to devour the world and devour information.

Lisa Hopkins: 6:35

That's the right word. I mean, yeah, it's like a hunger, right, it's like yeah it really is.

Tamar Greene: 6:40

I, even when I, when I did the opera stuff, I'm like I love languages and I want to I want to learn everything I can about these languages, and so I studied a lot of these different languages and I'm interested in that and, um, when I find something new and technology wise, I like to learn that. Even when I first learned how to drive, I was like I don't want to drive, I don't know how to drive stick shift, so I bought a stick shift.

Lisa Hopkins: 7:05

Of course you did.

Tamar Greene: 7:07

Like I was like what kind of fool just buys a stick shift but don't know how to drive it. Because I wanted to learn it, I wanted to know its secrets, you know, and that's kind of what drives me.

Lisa Hopkins: 7:19

Wow, you know it's very unique because someone else might be telling me from a similar background, might be telling me something completely different, Like they might be saying to me no, I'm first generation and I'm honoring my parents brought me here. You know, they went through a lot of stuff and you know it's difficult because, I mean, you know your perspective is so wide open. It's so. You know, I feel like you understand, you understand the privilege of coming and that that does honor your parents, right, but you don't. But you also don't. I can't, I can't put my finger on it. You're tremendously talented, right, but it seems like you're good at everything you do. Is that true? Is that fair to say?

Tamar Greene: 8:01

uh, that's a tough question ask me. I don't know um I I do the best can Put hubris aside, seriously put hubris aside, and do you feel like?

Lisa Hopkins: 8:09

do you and I truly mean this as an interested person Like do you, when you approach stick shift when you bought the car, was the voice in your head saying, well, I don't know how to do it, but I can figure it out? Or was it saying I'm going to get this, I'm going to learn how to do this thing, because I don't know how to do it? Where do you come from?

Tamar Greene: 8:31

Yeah, I think those two sentences actually coexist. Yeah, I think when I find something I don't know how to do, I definitely am like I'm going to figure it out. I talk a lot about how I grew up very shy, incredibly crippling, crippling shy, and it took me a while to get there. But where I am now, obviously it's like no one would ever imagine that I was a super shy kid. You know the way I'm on stage and do this, do this, the acting in this career. But like I was and the way I talk about it with kids, I'm like I actually use it. Right, they talk about fight or flight.

Lisa Hopkins: 9:11

Yeah.

Tamar Greene: 9:11

And I truly do. I like that fight Right Like I'm scared. It scares the hell out of me. So I'm going to do it.

Tamar Greene: 9:19

I remember, I remember my my day view of Hamilton and I was, I was like frightened. I was like everyone knows this massive musical right, everyone knows it, everyone knows all the words. I'm really good at messing up words and so I was like, after doing all of my you know weeks and weeks of rehearsal and stuff like that, I did the hard work and then I remember standing stage left about to walk onto my first lines and like my brain started freaking out when I forgot all my words and I was like no, no, breathe and just take that step. You got this.

Tamar Greene: 9:53

You got this, you know. So I love to conquer that stage, right. I always, even when I do my solo concerts and stuff like that I'm like it scares me to stand on stage and do a solo concert and talk about myself. I'm like, what if they hate myself? What scares me to stand on stage and do a solo concert and talk about myself? I'm like what if they hate myself? What if they don't like me, you know? And I'm like, just do it, just do it and conquer it, because then you're that much better. Yeah, you know so. Yeah, so it is. Yeah. So with driving, yeah, the stick shift, I get it. I'm like I can figure it out. I know I can, I know I'm smart enough to figure it out. I know I can figure out pretty much. Anything Like that's what I feel when I go into it, and if I fail, then whatever. But I'm going to. I think I'm pretty. Yeah, I think you're right. I think I'm pretty good at a lot of things and I'm sure I can do it.

Lisa Hopkins: 10:37

Well, is there something now that's kind of you know your next conquest? Is there something else that's really exciting to you that you haven't tried or that you can't do, or you think you know haven't done?

Tamar Greene: 10:50

um, let me see, I, I, I think the my, I guess my next it's like this looming project is is my album. That is, that has been a looming project of mine that I I actually haven't been able to conquer quite yet, not giving up on it yet, obviously. But I make little steps here and there and I'm working on it with friends and doing different arrangements and things like that. But I can't quite yet figure out how exactly I want to release this project to the world or do what to put on that project. But that is my looming thing, that I'm like I need to conquer this and I'm excited about it. It also stresses me out.

Lisa Hopkins: 11:33

For sure. What do you do when you're stressed out about something like that? Do you put it off or do you go harder? What do you do?

Tamar Greene: 11:42

Yeah, I do. Sometimes, to be honest, I do put it off. I'm sometimes as good as I try to be and better as I try to be honest, I do put it off, I do. I'm sometimes as as good as I try to be and better as as I try to be with managing stress. I sometimes am. I used to joke that I am the one I do cry over spilled milk sometimes, like if I was to literally drop a gallon of milk in my kitchen I would be really annoyed and walk away. I'd come back but I definitely would be really angry and like ah, it's everywhere I got it. Ah, and it's going to. Ah, it's under the stove. Oh, my gosh.

Lisa Hopkins: 12:17

I love that, but you probably need that every now and then. Right, you should go break some bottles of milk.

Tamar Greene: 12:24

Maybe, maybe I should. To conquer that right, just spill some milk no, that's, that's a great catch.

Lisa Hopkins: 12:29

Right of noticing what, of noticing what you do, hey? So I I'm guessing life is pretty busy for you right about now, with what? Eight shows a week being george and then 24 7 being dad yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it is.

Tamar Greene: 12:47

Uh, it is a wild time. Uh, my son is now, uh, will be 11 months in two days. Almost a year and it's been a wild year. I've been really trying to talk about conquering challenges. I've been really trying to show up eight shows a week because I'm passionate about what I do, I love to do what I do and this baby has been a nice little challenge of what can I do on no sleep? How's my brain still work? Does it still work? Can I do even the other thing?

Tamar Greene: 13:20

I mean cause I do so many other things, sometimes outside of side of the shows yeah, um, so it's been an interesting year with this beautiful little human who has us exhausted, my wife and I, all the time. So it is. It is a beautiful thing, though it really is a. It is a beautiful thing and I feel like you know, when you're on, you're driving and you make a different turn and it says recalculating. I feel like my spirit is constantly recalculating, like my. My brain is recalculating.

Lisa Hopkins: 13:54

That's interesting.

Tamar Greene: 13:56

Yeah.

Lisa Hopkins: 13:57

Yeah.

Tamar Greene: 13:57

It's like I can feel. I can feel the change. You know like I'm growing with my child.

Lisa Hopkins: 14:04

Yes.

Tamar Greene: 14:06

It's, it's, it's a bizarre thing, thing. It's a bizarre thing to to yeah, to go through it's, it's so real.

Lisa Hopkins: 14:14

The thing about a child is that you can't like conquer it, like do you know? You can't get like like, you've got to go with the flow. And it's true. I love that there's like this conscious recalibration that you're having of like something's, something shifting. Does that scare you at all? Like, does it make you like what comes up for you when you feel that?

Tamar Greene: 14:50

he was here, we would kind of get into the cycle of you know what we're going to do to raise him right. What music should? We play while he's in utero, like all the you know what would make him the smartest? How do we teach an infant math and want him to be a savant and do you know all this, all this stuff, we get into the weeds, even like food. Right, we're like in this country where there's so much, so many toxins and foods and things.

Tamar Greene: 15:08

What can't we feed them what? No, we shouldn't have that. No, don't do this. No, we can't warm it up. A bottle of a microwave? No, don't do that. Okay, we're going to do this one. And it gets overwhelming. It really does get overwhelming. And like we, we, we are humans of the world. Right, we, we, didn't have knowledge of it. Our parents didn't have knowledge of a lot of these things. Not that, not that we can't try to do better, right. But with that knowledge, we know that we can't.

Tamar Greene: 15:38

We're not going to ruin this child because we're okay, let's, you know, let's let's go to the foundation that we're okay and we'll try to do better with certain things that's hard to check back in on. It takes a little while of spiraling to come back and be like okay, I'm getting a little off.

Lisa Hopkins: 15:59

It's normal and it's par for the course. But you're absolutely right, they are the most resilient. They're going to save themselves.

Tamar Greene: 16:08

Yeah, yeah, that's why they, you know they.

Lisa Hopkins: 16:11

They get what they want. They get what they need. I mean, there are survival machines. Talk about fight or flight. Right, I mean, they are fighting, fighting, fighting for survival. They don't have the conscious brain that we've developed yet that tells us this is good, this is bad, it's just like no, I want food, I need to sleep. I'm going to scream until I get it.

Tamar Greene: 16:28

I'm going to scream until I get it. And too bad about you. Right, I'm selfish, unapologetically. I don't even know what selfish means.

Lisa Hopkins: 16:37

Exactly. I came across something that you said Actually you said about, I think, when you were researching George Washington, and it stood out you said that we only know him for his wins, but he's only there because of his failures, which is a great catch, right, and that goes for a lot of well-known folks, and I just kind of want to ask you what gifts have you received from your failures? What learnings?

Tamar Greene: 17:06

learnings. Ooh, yeah, okay, let me think a little bit on that one. Um, I I'd say I've had. Okay, I'll answer first with the first thing in my mind. I don't think of, um, maybe earlier things, but I think like, let's say, like I'm, I'm doing the show and I'm like not having a great vocal week, you know, and that obviously happens for humans. And let's say, you're doing a big number, history or whatever, and like I've had I don't have to speak in this way I have had moments where I have not had great vocal weeks and I have done these big numbers like history, where you're singing kind of the first big note, and then I had like a big crack right, and that's one way I'll say like that's on mine. You know these are minor things, but that's one way that I learned.

Tamar Greene: 18:05

Actually, I, I used to be especially with opera, the opera background. I used to be just you're frightened of, of cracking. You know, for a tenor, as I was at least, it was like they live for the high note at the end. That is what it is about. That is what makes you famous. You know, it has to be pristine. And so I felt like in in college they really groom you to be like in fear of ever messing up. Um, that's not reality. It's, it's truly not reality. So when it happens, you know, I've seen work with a lot of different people who, if they were to have a, have a crack mid-show, they would. They would call out second act, you know, and go home and and then rest for several days and vocal rest scarf on their neck and then I'll see you next week.

Tamar Greene: 18:58

You know, um, and I, you know, for better or worse, I don't know I, the way I approach it now and is I, I again strive to be, to be better and, like, learn around it, because I know I'm a person have allergies. Um, I'm allergic to a lot of different. I mean cats, dogs, trees, pollens, sawdust, I mean, like I'm allergic to the world in many ways. So like I'm always going to be under in some way. I'm always going to be facing something extra mucus, going on, it's always going to be something. So it's not feasible for me to just call it, you know. So I have to figure it out. So, if I crack in the middle of a thing and I'm embarrassed, one thing I learned is to forgive myself. Forgive myself quickly and hard, right, like and, and and move on yeah and then and figure it out.

Tamar Greene: 19:47

You know, if I did that in act one, I'm like, okay, recalibrating, you know I have to, I have to approach in act two, I have to, you know, maybe do some warm-ups, maybe get some tea, checking on what I can do. Don't push so much in the beginning of this so that I can have a little bit more gas for the end. I'm I'm constantly doing those calculations, um, in my mind. So that that's one thing I learned from like making mistakes, like on stage yeah, yeah, you said there were other.

Lisa Hopkins: 20:20

Are there others?

Tamar Greene: 20:21

yeah, no, I forgot, I said yeah damn it lisa, I actually really listen.

Tamar Greene: 20:28

No, you do, You're really good. You're really good. Oh, let me see, yeah, I think I've had even like financial mishaps, right, like things that I've tried to do that I entrusted folks to take care and and they proved that they weren't able to do that and I, you know, and I lost a lot, right, I lost like a decent amount of money and I've learned from. I learned from that, but I also learned from even like like family members, like watching. I'm I'm one of 10, I have a lot, of, a lot of siblings. My mom was one of nine, so I have a lot of like case studies in my family to be able to watch and see, and so if I'm like, okay, I see that, I see how this person managed money, you know, like well, it's interesting.

Lisa Hopkins: 21:22

I mean, if I can interrupt you, because, you don't have to tell me all the details. What I what I find really interesting is that I think what you're talking about, but maybe you can clarify you, because you don't have to tell me all the details. What I find really interesting is that I think what you're talking about, but maybe you can clarify, is that you trusted that someone would show up in a certain way or that they could do something, or that they would do something. Is that what you're talking about? That you learned that sometimes the blind trust is not.

Tamar Greene: 21:44

Yeah, I think the blind trust is not yeah, it's not, yeah, it's, it's not it. So what it, in a way I'd say, like it. It has taught me how to truly be a little bit more self-sufficient, to, like, do a little bit more of my own research, um, and be more involved in, in all of my handlings, right, like even my whatever what I do. Now it's like I'm even if I don't know how to do it, I'm going to learn to a little bit of accounting and then I'm going to let my accountant do the thing, but I'm going to know what you're doing. You know I want to. I'm going to figure that out. You know, with my concert work and stuff, like on my own, I was my own manager for pretty much everything and I just now got a manager, you know because but I but now I know how to do all of the things and I'm only passing it off because I'm too busy, but I know everything that you're doing.

Tamar Greene: 22:37

You know what I mean yes, I do yeah, so like being aware I've never. I'm no longer just like blindly, like trusting close to do certain things. I'm involved in everything and I know how to do enough of everything to know when it's right and, importantly, to know when it's wrong.

Lisa Hopkins: 22:54

That's pretty cool. So how does control show up? That sounds to me like control in a good way. You're taking control, you want to take control and you do it through education. You do it through picking the right people, and that totally makes sense. Why is that important to you? Why have you found that you need to do that?

Tamar Greene: 23:14

I think it is because if I, if I'm involved in it, if I'm because because I know that I, I know I have sense, right, I know I have sense that I am a smart man, Uh, and, and I, yeah, and I think it's important to have. I think it's important, I think it's important for you to be involved and to make those decisions. I've seen, I just have seen a lot of people not involved in their matters whatever matters it is, whatever it is, and just have some major failures. And I'm like, if you only had a little bit more education on that, like I feel like you could have really been successful at something you know.

Tamar Greene: 23:52

So I just think it's really important to have maintain that level of control in your life and to make sure you are. You are the one in charge of your own life right, your own decisions.

Lisa Hopkins: 24:02

You are the one in charge of your own life, right your own decisions. Yeah, I would venture to say it's really responsibility more than control. It's not that you're a controlling person, but Right right, right right Because. I'm not hearing you say I blame you for that and because you screwed up, I have to do it now. You're not saying that You're going ah, that didn't work, I trusted it would work. What can I going? Ah, that didn't work, I trusted it would work. What can I learn from this?

Tamar Greene: 24:26

yeah, I can learn how to do it. I love that. Right to me, that's it feels absolutely yeah, absolutely, absolutely yeah. Not, not like a controlling kind of mindset, just like, okay, I've learned, yep, um, let me be better at that.

Lisa Hopkins: 24:35

Yeah yeah yeah, absolutely no, that makes sense. It very cool. How do you define success? You know everyone defines it differently and maybe it'll change. I'm sure it will change.

Tamar Greene: 24:52

But in this moment, what does success look like for you? Success, yeah, you're right, it does change. It tweaks a little bit over time.

Tamar Greene: 24:59

But I think the foundation of my definition has always been doing what you love and being able to sustain your life through that. Yeah, you know so, you know, I used to. I used to think it was Success is being rich or winning all the awards or whatever you know doing that kind of thing and having a certain level of recognition, whatever you know doing that kind of thing and having a certain level of recognition. But like it truly is. As and as I'm, as I'm getting older, I'm like, oh, success will be like you know, having being able to very comfortably pay your mortgage on time and um and also go on vacations, because I love vacation. Go on a trip, um, you see something you like and be able to purchase it. You know like, and just live with peace, peace in your life.

Lisa Hopkins: 25:48

Yeah.

Tamar Greene: 25:49

That would be my yeah, that would be my current definition of success.

Lisa Hopkins: 25:53

I love it, hey, if we were meeting a year from now after this conversation and we were we were. You're not allergic to champagne, are you?

Tamar Greene: 26:01

Oh, absolutely not. Okay, perfect, good we can still perfect.

Lisa Hopkins: 26:04

Good, we can still be friends. No, so if we were meeting a year from now over a bottle of champagne and you were saying you know, lisa, this has been the most amazing year, what will we be celebrating?

Tamar Greene: 26:18

Hmm, well, um, we will be celebrating um. Professionally, I would celebrating a, a new role, like the ability to creating a new role, um, from conception, you, you know, like something that's in workshops. It's exciting to be able to pour yourself into a work, in the origin of a work, you know, and do that work and do that research, even on the character, and all that like that's very exciting. So in a year's time, yeah, let's just toast to that. I think there's other things that I just um, we just are. We're in the process of buying a home, so I'll toast. I can toast to that now, I guess. But nice, congrats, um, thanks, yeah, so we're looking forward to like having a bit of that peace and that joy and having more space for all for us and the baby on toast to that too yeah, very, it's interesting to think about it.

Lisa Hopkins: 27:24

right, we often go for these things and we know, like you knew, you knew, you've got some things in your mind about what you'd like to do.

Lisa Hopkins: 27:31

I'm working with my clients, I'm always saying you know, the words you use are so important and you know, when I asked you the question as a future sort of thing, I love that you said we will be celebrating. You didn't say we would be. There was no. If there, you're like, we will be. I just point that out and that's the way you roll, like, like if that's what you want, that's what you're going to get, that's what you're going to do. Clearly.

Tamar Greene: 27:57

That's so funny yeah.

Lisa Hopkins: 28:10

I didn't pick up on that myself. So, yeah, down right, absolutely. I love it. So are you? Would you? Are you ambitious? Are you open? Are you both? Is it some kind of beautiful alchemy of those two things?

Tamar Greene: 28:21

um, yeah, you're really good. I like these guys. It it's so, it's so good, like to to, just to, to, to talk with you. It's like these are such good questions. I'm like man, all right, let me, let me dive in. It'll take me a second to like, really answer these questions and I love that.

Tamar Greene: 28:38

Um, I, I would say that I am. I'm definitely ambitious. I have so much I want to do in the world, but I'm not rigid in those things. So I also am as a kid and did competitions and that's pretty much what I thought I was going to be. You know, I wanted to be a concert pianist at one point and as I went to school for it, I practiced a lot.

Tamar Greene: 29:18

Right, I practiced for hours. You're in a room by yourself and your piano and you're practicing a ton and trying to memorize so much of this, this, these sonatas and this, this music. I was passionate at that time about being successful in that realm. But then I started feeling a shift in the world and I was feeling like, is it actually a piano that I want to do? And I went to Eastman and I started seeing these incredible pianists like I thought I was good, I was pretty decent. But I've seen these other people were like really truly incredible. And I'm like, okay, okay, I'm gonna work. Um, you know what, let me, let me try a little something else. I'm gonna shift a shift a little bit. People keep telling me about this voice thing. I'm going to try that out. And so I've been kind of like shifting that way.

Tamar Greene: 30:11

Like I know, at the foundation I wanted to share my interpretation of music with the world in some way, my passion for it in some way. But I've always been open to how the world will shift me and change me. And even when I went to I went to get my master's in opera, you know, I was like, okay, this is what I'm going to do. I like, I love this. Like I said earlier, I love devouring languages.

Tamar Greene: 30:37

And then I started really truly discovering what musical theater meant to me and what it, what the capabilities of it in the world and and the you know, the acting and things like that. And I was like, okay, well, maybe I'll learn this actual thing and try to see if that's, that's it, cause it didn't quite feel right yet in opera, even though I still love doing it, it wasn't quite right. So I shifted a bit, but my, I always had the still, though, that ambition of, of success in this thing. I want to be the best I can be in this craft where I'm using my body or my fingers right For for uh, uh, interpreting text, or interpreting music, or sharing with the world.

Lisa Hopkins: 31:22

Yeah.

Tamar Greene: 31:23

Yeah, yeah. So so, yeah, I do like to. You know, I always I'm always seeking something, something new, something fresh. I'm always seeking that next thing. Um, as well, I'm not like, but I'm not bouncing around right, I've been in Hamilton for like six years, so like I still. You know, I love, I love what I do, but I am always seeking other things and have that ambition to like. I want to be seen too. I want other people to. I want to share this right. I want to be seen, but at the same time, I want to, I want to share this gift, right. I do believe it is a, it is a gift that is meant to be shared, and I want to do it with greater and greater audiences and connect more with more artists and be more and more creative.

Lisa Hopkins: 32:03

Yeah, how does? How does boredom show up for you, If at all? I'm curious.

Tamar Greene: 32:09

How does boredom show up for me? You know I'm not. I feel like I. I feel like sometimes I do have two separate brains Like I. I do feel like like I love to. You know I am a. I do feel like like I love to. You know I am a introvert, I think, foundationally with extrovert tendencies. So you know, I love to. I love to go out and mingle with friends, have good conversations. I'm also very happy to like sit on my couch and devour the next TV show and just like and be right. So I'm never I'm never really like bored Cause I actually do.

Lisa Hopkins: 32:45

I do enjoy time with myself well, it's a great segue, because it sounds like you really just live in the moment. So when you're doing something, you're not thinking about oh, what am I going to do next? It doesn't mean that you don't swirl around, like you shared with me about you kind of know that there's something, there's more and and.

Lisa Hopkins: 33:02

But I think you've kind of you've created a pattern in your life where that's the way that's how it happens. It sounds like there's some trust around that. So you maybe don't know what it is. You're not necessarily hungrily looking for it. You know you're not in Hamilton going God, you know. Like what am I going to add? Or you go to Hamilton and you do your thing, so you're living in the moment, clearly right, you're focused on the moment, which is, you know, that's definitely, I'm all about it, right?

Lisa Hopkins: 33:29

I mean, that's what it's called, and so I don't even need to ask you what your definition of living in the moment is. But I am. I mean, you can give it to me if you want, but you know, I feel like you're your own catalyst. Has there been anything else that's ever been a catalyst for you? But I get the sense that you catalyze everything. You make stuff happen, you go for it.

Tamar Greene: 33:57

Yeah, I am my own catalyst. You're right, I certainly am. But I do that by taking in the world right and taking in advice from other people. Like I'd say, even with going to do like the Broadway musical theater, I should say I wouldn't have, I don't think, if it wasn't for, like this teacher in school, miss Watson, just was like, hey, you might want to look at the motown, you know they're doing the thing you're. I saw you're doing this thing. Do you want to do that thing? I'm like oh, yeah, okay, yeah, let me, let me figure out what that means. Thank you for that. Um, yeah, you know.

Tamar Greene: 34:38

Or like, uh, my wife, right, we, we met on tour and and she had been in the business for a few years more than I had in the musical theater business and so she showed me a lot of the, the broadway world and what that meant and inspired me to do other things or even like getting some of the business stuff together, resume stuff or whatever it is. She really helped me with those things I've had. It was a friend actually of mine, specifically, even in Hamilton she. She said like, oh yeah, I think you'd make a good George Washington and I was like I don't see it, you know. But she, she did and and it was in the back of my mind I was like, okay, let me go, let me see what's going on. So yeah, I do in that kind of open-minded stuff we were talking about before you know go kind of vibe a little bit.

Tamar Greene: 35:35

It is a, it's a. It's a little both. I'm like, okay, I didn't think of that thing, I'm gonna take that in, I'm gonna take it to my own mental like board and have a board meeting with myself, literally, and then I'm gonna love it and I'm gonna, and then I'm gonna choose like, all right, this is what we're doing, let's try it out you know, why did you?

Lisa Hopkins: 35:55

why did you come on the podcast?

Tamar Greene: 35:57

because you don't know me you know I yeah, I don't know you, but I looked at your work and I saw you speaking with friends of mine and I was like, yeah, this looks like a, a trusted human I can have a conversation with, and it's nice to, it's nice to slow down. Sometimes, you know, it's nice to just like take a pause, uh, because in my life there is no. Sometimes it's just go, go, go.

Tamar Greene: 36:26

You know me and my wife both we were literally talking about last night's just go, go, go. You know. So like it is nice to just like sit down for a minute and, um, yeah, have a conversation with somebody, with a, with a decent human, and you seemed like a decent human that's cool.

Lisa Hopkins: 36:44

What would you say? What would you say, is your achilles heel I?

Tamar Greene: 36:49

I would say as much as I, as much as I was talking about conquering these things, I, I would say that one way it manifests I'm looking for the other thing, but one way it manifests itself is my like, like the stage right thing we were talking about Um, and so sometimes that is, that is um, it, it.

Tamar Greene: 37:13

it is a thing that I, I want to conquer, and I do conquer in many different ways, but it is always a thing you know, that just like, is kind of that like weakness that shows weakness, that shows up in many forms that might sway my decisions or choices, with things I might do or whatever, like you know, it is still a factor.

Tamar Greene: 37:36

So, even if I'm like, hey, I chose to do this particular thing, but maybe I didn't do these two things because I let that voice speak thing, but maybe I didn't do these two things because I let that voice speak, um, yeah, or even if it's uh, I think another way that that that thing manifests itself is even in social ways as well. I spend, I think I spend my life figuring out what that thing is. People thinking that I am quiet, which I am, but I'm trying to analyze that in myself and I'm like, actually, no, I just, in particular sometimes with who I open up with and who I talk to, can just be completely themselves in every environment. And I'm not that, you know, if I walk into a room, I'm like I should be, should be networking, or it should be talking to whatever and mingling whatever. I.

Tamar Greene: 38:35

I feel like this anxiety a lot of times in those, in those moments, and I'm like I think I should peace out. I think I'm a peace out, you know, and so that's the kind of those. It's. It's similar to that what, what few fuels, the uh stage fright, not exactly the same, but it is a similar foundation and those two things. That, like it, scares me, you know. So it makes more work for me to have to conquer after, and I like to conquer, but it is. It is this looming.

Lisa Hopkins: 39:05

Yeah, I'd love to respond to that, if it's okay with you.

Tamar Greene: 39:10

Absolutely, please yeah.

Lisa Hopkins: 39:12

So, on the first point about the stage right, which is super common, I would, I would almost, I would almost want to pose the question to you of, I would almost want to pose the question to you of is it possible that the fear that if you didn't have it, it shows up because it works, it shows up because you go on and you conquer. It's never actually you've never died, right? You've never. If you want to do fight or flight, you've never gone on stage, even with that voice. I mean, you've gone against that voice and said no, I'm not and you haven't died.

Lisa Hopkins: 39:47

But it's really interesting because you've had a lot of success and often these old voices that are in our head, I call them gremlins, old voices that that are in our head, you know, I call them gremlins. You know we need, we need to to check in with them, not try to get rid of them. See, we spend a lot of energy trying to get rid of them. I don't want to hear it, I want to fight them, I want to, but but rather repurpose them, if you think of them as energy, our energy, and that they were there once to protect us. So probably, if we were working together, we'd probably figure out when it showed up, but it might've been when you were 10 years old and you were going on stage and they said you know, you better not forget your lines, you're going to embarrass yourself or whatever. So you studied really, really, really hard and it was true that you know it saved you from embarrassment. So so what we can do is we can. We can sort of invite it in now and say listen, I know, thank you and I honor you for helping me.

Lisa Hopkins: 40:37

This voice really helped me when I was younger and when I was less experienced. But like I'm a Broadway guy now, like I've done this for six years, you know I'm going to be fine. But you know, rather than just firing you, I'm going to recast you in your role in my head and how I could really use you is you know if you could say this, and then you re-script it. You've heard of re-scripting. You just give it something else to say and it will stand down in the old message. It's just old data and it has worked and it's there. It's actually your ally, it's actually trying to help you, but it just doesn't have the updated info. This is where your, your uh, your other degree will come in handy yeah, yeah, exactly, I was like you speak of my language, girl.

Lisa Hopkins: 41:21

Yes, it's so it needs. You need a reboot. You don't need to get rid of it. You don't need to go. Why do I have that? You don't need to spend any energy sort of contemplating it, but rather invited in and and and know what it is. So what do you think about that?

Tamar Greene: 41:36

I wholly agree with that.

Tamar Greene: 41:38

I really that really resonated with me because I I do, without putting such, I think, such great words to it, it is, it is what I try to do, I try to tell, even though, what I try to tell people to do and what I try to tell people to do, things that I'm trying to convince myself to do, yeah, you know, um, but it is that like, yeah, it it.

Tamar Greene: 42:00

It did show up in that way when I was young and it was a like, something I was really embarrassed about, like you know, like it showed up even when I first started auditioning in the city and I thought, you know, I thought I was great, and and then I show up in a room and realize we're in a I'm in a whole different level of ball game, you know, and I wasn't, I wasn't prepared, I thought I was yeah, and I definitely wasn't, and I really embarrassed myself and then, like a casting director or director, whatever, made a comment like yeah, next time, you know, be off book, maybe, or whatever, like, whatever it was, it was, and I was like, walk out with my tail.

Tamar Greene: 42:40

But you know, like, like, so that is. But that has motivated me to to really really do the work for something I'm passionate about. Yep, really, you know, know the song, know this, know the size. Even if you're not quite you want to try to be off book, but if you're not quite, at least know what you're talking about and glance down, come back up and say your lines. You know, like those guys, it has sharpened me yep, that's what I'm saying it's helped you.

Lisa Hopkins: 43:07

Yeah, you're right. Yeah, so there could be a fear there that if I get rid of it, I might then not. Do you see the connection?

Tamar Greene: 43:16

Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I and it's, it's that's man, that's so good, uh, and it's it's a little bit different, but I was, uh, tell folks too about, like what, if I'm on, if you're, if you're in a work, right, you're doing, you're doing the work, you're doing the thing. The moment that you like actually get bored is when you mess up and when you screw up and because your brain is not in it. So that voice, that voice has helped me. Stay in it, stay engaged, be a better actor, because I know if I start thinking about what I want for lunch, I'm going to fail and I'm going to embarrass myself and I'm going to start sweating and my heart, my blood pressure is going to go up, all of that. So it is, it's very, it's very similar. I like that.

Lisa Hopkins: 43:59

Yeah, and you believe I mean you clearly believe that without it that you'd be off your game. I would say to you, I would challenge you and say now, Tamar, in this moment, that it's actually more likely to distract you, because when we are focusing on potential dangers, in that lower energy that you talked about the fight or flight, I call it catabolic energy then what catabolic energy is draws us towards what's painful or stressful or whatever. So your goal then, when you're going on stage, if you go on that way, is to overcome shyness or overcome anxiety or overcome or get through the lines versus being which you're really good at. So it's the trusting that you know, trusting that you know and again, it's great that it's there. It could be a tool, right, it could be a reminder, like you could file it into discernment versus judgment. So it's not so black and white, right and not so binary and just say, listen, I hear you, but I don't need that. What I need right now is like, you know, give me some energy.

Tamar Greene: 45:05

You know you rock, you know whatever, whatever you wanted to do, so that you can go out there and kill it yeah, I, I really I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna re-listen to this for this moment, I'm gonna, I really am, I, I love it that yeah really good.

Lisa Hopkins: 45:22

Give it a shot, man, I think it'd be really good. And the the other thing that you mentioned, you, you were talking about how it shows up, um, socially, yes, and you and you use the word should and I call I should, I could, with shame. So when we know that we can do something, right.

Lisa Hopkins: 45:46

And we're shoulding all over the place. We sometimes do do it, but it's fueled by shame, but it's fueled by shame, and so that's unsustainable. So I'm sure you do, I'm sure you should, you listen to should, and then you push yourself and you do it and blah, blah, blah. But as soon as you lose the shame and realize that you have the capability to do this, then you step into I could do this. And then the question becomes do I want to do this? And once you're in, I could do this. Then you start going yeah, I could, I could totally do this. And then, and then you move to. You know, I have this whole thing called the choice capacitor. It's funny. I was talking I don't know if you know noah, noah ricketts, but he, um, he said I'm putting this in my dressing room. I could send it to you as well, but it's, it's a choice capacitor, right.

Lisa Hopkins: 46:34

So? So yeah, I call it energetic choice. So we go from I can't to I have to, right where you're really pushing through to I should, right, and then to get to the other side of the more conscious choice. Then it you lose the shame, right, and then you're and I could. And then you go to not only can, but I want to. And when you're in, I want to, it starts being connected to your why. Why do I want to? Because I do what I say I'm going to do, because I care about the producer, because the audience is supporting me, because whatever, whatever your whys are, you start connecting. And then, once you're there, then it's easy to shift to the ultimate, which is I get to, and I get to is choice with gratitude. That's when you're doing it and you know you're doing it.

Lisa Hopkins: 47:24

And you're doing it and you're grateful for doing it.

Tamar Greene: 47:27

These guys pencil out. I get to is choice with gratitude. What am I talking about? It's amazing. You can feel it right. Yeah, I can feel it right. Yeah, that's, I'm definitely going to need that, that.

Lisa Hopkins: 47:42

Uh, what you said, you said to know you don't need it, you want it and I, I will definitely I will definitely share with you, that's fair.

Tamar Greene: 47:50

You need it one, okay, okay you don't need anything.

Lisa Hopkins: 47:53

You don't even need to be acting or singing. I mean you know you don't need anything. You don't even need to be acting or singing. I mean you know you don't need anything. These are things you've chosen that you want to do, yeah, yeah, and within those choices, we have choices about how we do them. That's where the gold is, that's where the golden thread is. Then it doesn't matter what you're doing, because you know what I mean, because you're really connected to yeah that's beautiful, that's profound, that's this is.

Tamar Greene: 48:19

This is not merely a podcast. I think you're you're not advertising yourself, as this is beyond. What are we talking about? This is I don't know. This is, this is amazing. This is magic. Thank you, it is a gift. What you have is is definitely a gift. I've done a lot of, I've done a lot of podcasts. I've done a lot of interviews. This is not. This is something else.

Lisa Hopkins: 48:43

This is, this is special hey, um, what do you know? Will stay true about you, no matter what happens.

Tamar Greene: 49:00

I know that I'll always, whatever happens, I'll always lead with my heart. I do. I do feel that is a foundation of me. That I really love about myself is that I I try my best to, you know, always leave lead with love and those intentions of um not harming in my choices. Yeah, um, um, you know, I'm a middle child, middle of 10, mind you Right, exactly, oh, my God.

Tamar Greene: 49:44

So, uh, I got to watch a lot of, you know, look up and look down and and see what to do, what not to do, and all that, but also be the um, the mediator.

Lisa Hopkins: 49:57

Oh, interesting.

Tamar Greene: 49:58

Yeah, and those experiences, which I think is is made me, you know, definitely made me who I am, part of what made me who I am is being in the middle.

Lisa Hopkins: 50:07

I'm like.

Tamar Greene: 50:07

Ooh, yeah, I hear you, sis, but like I think my brother's actually trying to say and oh, no, but sis, but my brother, I think with my sister, which is actually meaning you know. So, so it's, it's, it's why I tick, it's the way, it's the why I am the way I am. I really do. I think it made me more empathetic, for sure, and like that's how I, that's how I like to lead with all my choices, is knowing that you know all these people mean well, everyone. There is no like, there's no villain, there's no one out there. Really, that's like I want to be a bad human. I want.

Lisa Hopkins: 50:39

I agree with you.

Tamar Greene: 50:40

I agree with you yeah I agree and so if you have that understanding, it's like all right, listen a little longer. Yeah, you know, and I love you. You know, yeah, and ask another question, you know, like that, that's um yeah, so I always do. I always do whatever, whatever it is I always try to lead with my heart and lead with love can you finish this phrase?

Lisa Hopkins: 51:04

most people think tamar green is, but the truth is I think, uh, most things.

Tamar Greene: 51:15

I think tamar has got it all together right, oh my god, it's like got it all together and very confident in all that you know and I, I think, um, you know which the, which is great. It's a nice thing for people to think you know of it, but I think it is even even the. The con of it is, you know something I felt, even growing up with so many siblings a lot of times people don't check on the person they think is strong, you know. So that's the problem, right, like, and I'm, you know, I'm confident with the things I'm confident in. You know, I'm very ambitious. We talk about all these different things, but I'm also a human who's flawed and is going through stuff and also, you know, and and people don't often. This is why, honestly, why I'm loving this, even conversations, so much because you're diving in on things people don't often dive in and check in yeah yeah I feel that.

Tamar Greene: 52:17

Thank you for sharing that yeah, yeah, I didn't expect to share that, but yeah, whatever, you're fine, that's fine. Yeah, that's true, yeah, no, absolutely I appreciate that, um, how do you want to be remembered as someone who really truly cared right, who, who. When you think of that person, you smile. You know it left you with something. You know that I left you with something that made you feel you know good in some way yeah, in some way.

Lisa Hopkins: 53:24

Yeah, yeah, that's how I feel in this moment Mission accomplished. I can really feel your energy. I mean you have a beautiful energy, I mean you make me feel good well, well, thank you likewise. Thank you you don't even need to sing, although I've got to say your voice is like ridiculous.

Tamar Greene: 53:45

But thank you there we go. There it is.

Lisa Hopkins: 53:55

I'm shameless.

Tamar Greene: 53:56

Okay.

Lisa Hopkins: 53:57

So let me see, we'll do. We do this thing called rapid fire. It doesn't have to be rapid. I'm just going to say what makes you and I'm going to throw out a word, and you've probably heard this before. So what makes you? Whatever comes to mind, okay. So what makes? And you, just whatever comes to mind, okay, so what makes you hungry?

Tamar Greene: 54:18

um, seeing delicious things I haven't tried yet and that could be. That could be food and otherwise, right, yeah? There you go and that you're not allergic to, and then I'm not allergic to food. That's good, oh that's good.

Lisa Hopkins: 54:35

No food Just the environmental stuff, all right. What makes you sad? Hate?

Tamar Greene: 54:49

What inspires you, friends?

Lisa Hopkins: 54:54

who I see being successful.

Tamar Greene: 55:01

What frustrates you Not being?

Lisa Hopkins: 55:05

heard.

Tamar Greene: 55:09

What makes you laugh, my son?

Lisa Hopkins: 55:14

Love it. What's your son's name?

Tamar Greene: 55:15

Amari, josiah, oh, that's beautiful. Yeah, I'm AJ oh.

Lisa Hopkins: 55:20

I love it. That's great, I love it.

Tamar Greene: 55:24

What makes you angry? Disrespect and finally, what makes you grateful? Many things uh love life, family, yeah yeah, love it.

Lisa Hopkins: 55:45

So what are the? What are the top three things that have happened so far today?

Tamar Greene: 55:50

woke up next to a smiling baby. That that's awesome. Um, let's see, I'm generally feeling pretty good today. You know, woke up pretty like lighter than than I have and, um, well, in truth, this is not not be anything like, in truth, this conversation, truly, I mean, I wasn't expecting, wasn't expecting this.

Lisa Hopkins: 56:22

So, yeah, lovely ditto, and what's something you're looking forward to, both today and then big picture today.

Tamar Greene: 56:33

I'm looking forward to the moments I'll have with my family, my wife and my son, before I go to work and do the thing. Looking forward to having that time and in the future I am. I am looking forward to having that champagne with you next year. When we're talking about yes, hell yes oh my god, tomorrow.

Lisa Hopkins: 56:59

I so appreciate you taking the time out of your busy life to be with me in the moment. Today. I really, I really have. I've enjoyed our conversation very, very much yeah, me too, lisa.

Tamar Greene: 57:10

Really, truly, truly. Thank you for making me think, making me feel and teaching me things about myself.

Lisa Hopkins: 57:21

Thanks so much. I've been speaking today with Tamara Green. I'm Lisa Hopkins. Thanks so much for listening. Everyone, stay safe and healthy and remember to live in the moment. In music, stop time is that beautiful moment where the band is suspended in rhythmic unison, supporting the soloist to express their individuality In the moment. I encourage you to take that time and create your own rhythm. Until next time. I'm Lisa Hopkins. Thanks for listening.