Chewing the Gristle with Greg Koch
Gary Hoey
When Gary Hoey picked up his first guitar, little did he know how he'd leave his mark on the world of rock. In our latest episode, Gary takes us on a nostalgic trip, recounting his transition from band life to forging a successful solo career, reminding us that the road to musical mastery is as twisted as a guitar solo (but just as exhilarating).
We share the lesson of a musician's son whose two-year program trumped a four-year degree, a testament to the idea that sometimes, less is more. Our conversation wanders through the importance of self-reliance in the music industry, and deliberating on the balance between technique and avoiding injury.
Listen as we share a chord of truth about the eternal cycle of refining one's artistry and how the guitar can be both a companion and a muse in the rock and roll life we live and love.
Dedicated to helping musicians achieve the truest sound possible whenever they plug-in.
Wildwood Guitars
One of the world’s premier retailers of exceptional electric and acoustic guitars.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
When Gary Hoey picked up his first guitar, little did he know how he'd leave his mark on the world of rock. In our latest episode, Gary takes us on a nostalgic trip, recounting his transition from band life to forging a successful solo career, reminding us that the road to musical mastery is as twisted as a guitar solo (but just as exhilarating).
We share the lesson of a musician's son whose two-year program trumped a four-year degree, a testament to the idea that sometimes, less is more. Our conversation wanders through the importance of self-reliance in the music industry, and deliberating on the balance between technique and avoiding injury.
Listen as we share a chord of truth about the eternal cycle of refining one's artistry and how the guitar can be both a companion and a muse in the rock and roll life we live and love.
Dedicated to helping musicians achieve the truest sound possible whenever they plug-in.
Wildwood Guitars
One of the world’s premier retailers of exceptional electric and acoustic guitars.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
At long last. Ladies and gentlemen, season five of Chewing the Gristle is indeed upon us, A convivial conversation fest between myself, Gregory S Caulk, Esquire and a variety of musical potentates from hither and yon, brought to you by our friends at Wildwood Guitars and our friends at Fishman Transducers, of course, both of which I've had long-standing and continuing relationships with, and I'm very grateful for their continued support in this endeavor to bring you Chewing the Dog on Gristle. We've got a bunch of fun guests, some you have heard of, some maybe not so much. It'll be a little bit of discovery and a little bit of chaos all rolled into one. Thanks for tuning in folks.
Speaker 1:Now, without any further ado, let's chew some gristle. This week on Chewing the Gristle, we have an individual of rock and roll renown the mighty Gary Hoey, guitar slinger, extraordinaire hell of a nice guy and a stalwart musical compatriot. This week on Chewing the Gristle, Gary Hoey, Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, we have reunited once again for another scintillating installment of Chewing the Gristle with yours truly, Gregory Cochrie. I'm here with my old pal, guitar player, extraordinaire instrumental guitarist, vocal guitarist, writer of soundtracks the whole nine yard music business survivor and potentate, Gary Hoey, how the hell are you my friend?
Speaker 2:I'm great, buddy, how are you? Good to hear you and see you.
Speaker 1:Likewise, it's been a while. It was good to see you down at the Dallas International Guitar Show and I thought I got to get Gary on here. We need to catch up. We need to find out what's happening.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. It was great to see you at the show and I got to say it was awesome to hear you play with your son, Dylan, and likewise, ian is down there.
Speaker 1:That's just so awesome that we were able to have our youngsters along, who can really play.
Speaker 2:I know my son, ian, has been playing guitar with me since he was a kid, but now he's starting to do gigs and play live with me. You know how it is when you, when you're, you're sibling, you're uh, you're, you're your children are next to you. It's just. There's no better feeling. It's awesome With the kids.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. So give me a little uh synopsis of what's been going on. I mean, I like to say the first time we actually really hung out, I think, was back at the Thoroughbred Music Show back in probably 1997 or 8 or something like that. And at that time, you know, we were both doing the Fender thing. You, of course, had a burgeoning career already at that point and had, you know, instrumental hits and you already had the whole Hoey thing happening, yes, as well, as had done that soundtrack to Endless Summer and all that kind of stuff. So you were already well on your way and through that time, you know, we've we've weaved our way through this weird business and you were living in LA for a long time. Then you had kids and you moved back east to where you're from originally. So give, give us a little lowdown of you know, kind of your. I mean, obviously we could be here all day talking about the trajectory but kind of about your journey and how you ended up in California and then the adjustment back to where you're from, back east.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's an interesting story because when you and I met, you know, we were both kind of coming into Fender Guitars, we were both doing a lot of Fender clinics and you and I were kind of like, I mean, we were the main headpins, I think, of the clinic, workshops and stuff and the gear and everything with them Right, and I felt like that's when I really got to know you, when I met you and then we started doing stuff together and fell in love with you playing and your personality as a person. But yeah, man, I, just I, you know my thing was in the early 90s. I I somehow broke through when the grunge thing had hit. You know, I was in a band called Heavy Bones. We got a deal with Warner Brothers Records. We made this very expensive record for half a million dollars you know the end of the big money days and we made a record with Richie Zito and it just tanked. It came out and we had Frankie Benelli on drums from Quiet Riot, great drummer, who passed away. God rest his soul.
Speaker 2:But we made a record and that record, you know, just didn't happen. You know the timing wasn't right because grunge had come in and you know that whole, I guess that 80s sound was just going. And you know how it is, bro, every decade music kind of changes the 60s, if you think of the 50s, the 60s, the 70s every decade is sort of like a new birth. And that's what happened. And I was kind of left on the side of the road and I went to Warner Brothers Records and I said, hey, man, just give me like. I mean, we weren't really, uh, thinking it was going to be a big hit at all. We had no clue. Just, it just came out and it kind of hit the airwaves and DJs remembered it and it took off and we had a top five billboard hit in the middle of this whole grunge weird.
Speaker 2:And my career kind of started taking off as a solo artist. And then I scored the endless summer thing, but I, you know, I just was happy to just make it as an instrumental guitarist. You know everybody was saying shred was dead. Do you remember that? Right, everybody was saying shred is dead and and all the songs had no souls in them. It was like there was no more souls on the radio. There'd be these grunge drop D tunings and just, and when the solo came the guy would sing the Christmas. You know the chorus melody or something it was just like. So I just remember saying you know, shred is not dead. You know, I'm just going to play and find my little audience, you know, find my niche.
Speaker 2:And uh, and you and me, we just kept forging ahead and doing what we do, and and that that was a lesson for me to learn. You know that you could be on the biggest stages in the world. You know, like when my career broke, I was touring with Ryan May and, you know, ted Nugent, and I was going on the road with the Doobie Brothers and Foreigner. I mean, it was amazing. I was opening up for these big bands that I grew up listening to. But you know, when those big stages ended, you know, I realized we're stuck with, you know, the three feet around us and our passion for the music and and that made me learn a lot about just getting out and playing and building a fan base and not worrying about if I'm playing big, giant venues, if there's a hundred people there, you know, just play, play like there's a thousand and give them everything you got and and I felt like I was able to, you know, find a career.
Speaker 2:And when I was in California. What brought me there was I auditioned for Ozzy Osbourne. Like, like many guitar players tried out. I tried out for Ozzy back in the mid 80s and didn't get the gig, but he flew me out there. I'd never been to California. It was an incredible experience. So standing in the room with Ozzy playing was just amazing and it just made me feel like I could do something. And he said you know, he told me I should move to LA and he suggested I move out there and I did and that's when my career kind of took off. But I ended up coming home to the East coast when I had my two kids and just wanted to get away from the madness of LA. You know, just not raise them in that craziness. That was really it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I can dig that, and so you're originally from the Boston area, correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I grew up. I grew up in Lowell Massachusetts area, correct? Yeah, yeah, I grew up, uh, grew up, in Lowell, massachusetts. Um, you know the town of the Mickey ward and you know, uh, ed McMahon and, uh, jack Kerouac you know like a few crazy characters came out of Lowell and Gary Hoey. Um, yeah, I grew up in a mill town, you know, small mill town, you know, and uh, just really, just like you, you, you know, you grew up in the same kind of situation. It was cold and we just stayed in the house and we played our guitars and we woodshed it and we played in bands and that was really my roots. Now I came back to the East. I'm living in New Hampshire now. I kind of moved a little bit north.
Speaker 1:Now, did you have any formal music training when you were young?
Speaker 2:My story is I wanted to go to Berklee College of Music in Boston. I wanted really to go there because I started out playing guitar. I learned from records and studied Jeff Beck and all these people, but I didn't know anything about theory and I felt like I couldn't figure out how to play the right scale over the right chords and I always wondered why these guys always played the right note at the right time. So I wanted to learn the language of music. That was my thing and my mom's like there's no money, you know, to go to Berklee College of Music. You know, but go down there and hang out, you might run into someone to help you.
Speaker 2:So I went to Berklee and I remember going into the bookstore and I just ran into a guy that had a backpack on and I'm like, hey, man, did you go to Berklee? He's like, oh, can you? Would you teach me on Saturdays? If I paid you money? And that's where it started and I got it and I went to his house and he taught me how to read music. And you know I'm not like a scholar or anything, but I learned my modes and you know I learned all that stuff.
Speaker 1:That is awesome. Well, you know, that's kind of an interesting thing because you know you have a lot. I'm sure you get approached by a lot of parents and kids who are in their, you know, formative years, where they're graduating from high school, they want to do music and they're like what should I do? Should I go to Berkeley? Should I go to these places? And, to your point, a lot of these places are really really expensive and your mom's advice couldn't have been better. I mean, find somebody who knows the information, pay them and get what you need and then go on your merry way, not to say that you know, hey, if you got the money and you can do it, and it's no stress on you and so on and let the good times roll, but doing what you did was a smart move as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's kind of like, you know, mom's always know best and you know, and she just was trying to find a way out of it because we didn't have the money and you know, and it just made me learn it. If you do have the passion, you know, some self-discipline, you know, which I do have but, yeah, if your folks can put you in the school and you're the kind of person that needs to be enrolled and engulfed to really get the information and my son just did two years at Belmont in Nashville, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:And they have a really good music program and he studied like arranging and things like that and man, he came home so educated I mean he was showing me stuff that I didn't know and and he didn't want to go the full four years. He's like dad, I did two years. I feel like I just want to get on the road now and play some music with you. Awesome, that's awesome. Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 1:So, in terms of you know, career wise I mean, you obviously came to the conclusion, as I did a long time ago, that you know, not that we're not amenable to working for somebody else, but it's like no one else is going to do it for you. So you just figured I got to do whatever I can, under my own flag, in order to make this career happen. And at what point did you really realize that there is no silver bullet. No one's going to come along and you know, grab you and hoist you into someplace You're going to have to do. If you want something done, as I like to say, if you want something done, right, don't do it at all. Know the opposite of that, of course, you got to do it yourself.
Speaker 1:So when did you realize that that was? You know, if you, if you were going to make a career, you were going to have. You know cause there's so many let's be honest, there's so many musicians who bitch and moan because this and this, this, this hasn't happened and how, how horrible this is and how horrible that is. And you know, we all knew going into it that it was going to be a challenge. But at some point you realize, well, unless I do it, nothing's going to happen. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, that's well put. You know what it is. There were several little bumps in the road for me that made me realize a few things. Like early on as a guitar player, I remember thinking that I didn't have a style of my own at all. I just remember thinking, like you know, eddie Van Halen's been here, hendrix, you know, keep. I just remember thinking, like you know, eddie Van Halen's been here, hendrix, you know, keep going. And I'm just this guitar guy. I'm never going to have like some unique kind of style like a Brian May or whatever. And so I just said one day you know what, dude, you're not going to reinvent the guitar, so why don't you just have fun playing it and stop worrying about trying to come up with this one lick that no one has ever done? Right, like I, I gotta come up with a lick that no one's ever done. And I realized that's not what it's about. So I just that took a lot of weight off my shoulders. Um, when I just said I'm just, you know, I might not be that guy, but I'm just going to be okay, and and that took a lot of weight off.
Speaker 2:And then the second one was that I might not make it. You know, like when my Warner brothers band fell apart, you know, and Heavy Bones didn't make it, and I was kind of left on the curb. I was kind of like going like you know what I might not ever be like you know the household name, or like the multi triple platinum artist or whatever you want to call it, that's, you know, hitting that big gold ring, whatever it is. And I just said to myself you know, you might not, but you'll find a way to just make a living and have fun and find happiness and joy in the music. And that was really a conscious thing, because I had a lot of turmoil in the band. Sometimes there were things going on. You know, when you're in a band with all these people trying to decide, when you're a solo artist like you, we're stuck with all the decisions. Sometimes we're stuck with all the glory and we're stuck with all the pain. You know we get it all. So what I did is I just said you know, dude, you might not get that famous, but maybe you'll just like make a living. And that again took all this weight off me.
Speaker 2:And that's when my career started to take off, is when I stopped caring. I didn't give a damn. I just didn't give a damn. I just said, dude, make the best music you can make. I never every situation I didn't get I took as a positive. When I auditioned for Ronnie James Dio, I auditioned for Ozzy, I auditioned for all these people, I kept trying to get these gigs and I'd always come in like close but then I wouldn't get it. So I realized it's like acting. You know you can audition for a part. You know you can't take it personal. People are looking for certain things Right, and so I knew I had talent. But I just I started my, my solo career after that band, after Heavy Bone Stop. I just started making records and I, you know, I just said, dude, make stuff that's good, make something that's going to sound good in 10 years and you know, maybe you know, things will catch up to you and you'll actually have a career.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly.
Speaker 2:And doing cover songs was a big thing. Hocus Pocus was a remake, but the rest of the album my first album, animal Instinct's got some other stuff. So I've always been known as the kind of like the cover King. You know, I did a remake of low rider by war. Uh, I had a bit of a hit single with that one. Then I had some others that were just remakes. Um, because I always felt like as a guitar player you've got to give people something to draw them in. You know, absolutely.
Speaker 1:You've always had a very, very loyal fan base and you've been very, very good of of uh, just very, you know, excellent with maintaining and surviving in this industry and and it's not disingenuous, I mean, it's all you know you just have this pure positive vibe that people respond to and, of course, you're a great player and so on and so forth. And I mean, do you think that just came naturally, or you just? You know, as I said, these are skills that are not uh, run of the mill skills in the in the music industry. It's like you to be able to have those really uh gives you the freedom to do what you want to do. And I like to say, you know, you don't need, you don't need a million, you just need enough of those people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. You need them to keep coming back. Yes, yes, you know, as a customer, as a fan, I call them a family. You know they're like fan and their family together. You know, my thing is I've always been a positive person, like I've always sort of had a positive attitude in life growing up, even when things were hard. You know we've all had our hardships growing up. Attitude in life growing up, even when things were hard. You know we've all had our hardships growing up. My mom and dad divorced when I was young. You know we had lots of turmoil in my family, things like that, but I always kept a positive energy going with whatever was happening.
Speaker 2:And you know, through the fan stuff it's like as time went on, you know we have this thing called social media that we never had. You know, in the 70s, when I was coming up as eighties, you know we feel some media wasn't there. So now we have this sort of instant connection with our fans. Right, sometimes it's a pain in the butt, you know we got to constantly, daily, stay on top of it and it's a lot of extra work sometimes to keep in touch with everyone and and do it. But I, um, I remember during the pandemic, when everybody was and stuff, and my social media girl was like, man, I guess I'm going to see, you know, everybody's kind of putting me on hold. Right now there's nothing going on, no one's touring, and you know so I'm not going to be making much money. And I said no, I want to keep you on board, I'm going to pay you double and we're going to stay on the internet, because where else are we going to go.
Speaker 2:So I started doing coffee time with mom, with my mother. I have a t-shirt on right now with her on it and just, you know, I was just like, you know, let's go online and at least play guitar, talk to people. I put together a little solo show with a loop, some loopers, and you know I started doing like an acoustic looping show and I went out and did some solo acoustic gigs and it was challenging, it was so scared, it's scary, it was like walking on a tightrope. But you know, you and I we're survivors, man, you know we're survivors and when things get rough, we find a way to just get through it, and that's what I did.
Speaker 2:I'm like I'm just going to play online and I made a few bucks, you know, sure, and I thank my fans for that and we made Coffee Time t-shirts and we made Hanging with Hoey t-shirts Like we just did silly stuff because the fans wanted to support us. So that's I think that's the answer to it, bro is I just always try to stay positive, stay engaged with the fans and at least let them know I appreciate what they're doing. You know, I can dig that.
Speaker 1:So when you were coming up, what was the main impetus to want to play guitar? I mean, was there a certain artist that were like, oh, an aha moment, or was it just kind of a general you like music, or was there like a tangible moment you can pinpoint? Like that was it.
Speaker 2:For me it was pretty clear cut. I was a young teenager growing up and me and my friend Dave, we started taking karate when we were like probably 13. We went in and started taking karate because, you know, again, we grew up in a rough mill town. Man, I got plenty of, you know, fights in scrapes and, just you know, near fights and things like that Cause you know it was. It was a rough and tumble town. But, um, I remember just saying to my friend let's go take karate, man, we have to learn to fight or something you know. And we went in and started taking karate and it said first lesson free. And I think that day we were actually getting chased by some guys that were trying to, you know, steal our candy or whatever it was, and we were like running into this dojo going like, hey, can we get a lesson right now? We want to. You know we need to fight and they're like no glasshopper, you must learn respect. So I started taking martial arts and I have to say I owe a lot to it because, you know, growing up in my turmoil of my family, when I was in karate and studying as a teenager, it kept me off the street. You know what I mean. It kept me focused and it taught me discipline. So when I started playing music, I applied the same discipline, which was if you work hard at something, you're going to get better, but it's going to take time.
Speaker 2:I, uh, one day I'm sitting at the kitchen table and my sister, barbara, walks in the house with this dude who's who's who's a guitar player, and he sits down at the kitchen table, greg, and he starts playing like cross-eyed mary, by jethro, tell you know. And I'm just looking over and he starts playing locomotive breath, you know. And I'm just like whoa, jethro, tell you know. And I just remember looking at his hand and it literally looked like a spider just running up and down the neck I just never seen anything like it in my life like three feet away, and it just mesmerized me. I can't even explain what it did to me and I said, wow, what is that? How do you do that? Will you teach me? And it was one of those. And and it was one of those, and he said, yeah, if you get, if you get a little guitar, you know, I can show you some chords and get you started.
Speaker 2:So I, you know, eventually got a guitar and you know, he, he showed me like some stuff and got me started and, uh, he was a big fan of the Allman brothers, you know. So he had that great vibrato. He had a really good vibrato and he kind of taught me, I think, my vibrato, which I think is pretty good because I kind of stole it from him. So you know, it's just that that's what got me going, man. And then I was, I was obsessed, bro. By the time I was, you know, 16 years old, I was literally obsessed with the guitar playing, you know, endless hours a day. Awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and was there a particular artist that you were into at that time, or are you like, hey, I like it all?
Speaker 2:I, you know, I I initially got got attracted, like right away, um, like the first things I heard that drew me was in, was like alice cooper, uh. Black sabbath, um, hendrix, um, you know, and clapton, you know, the main guys, those are the ones I was um gravitating toward right away. Black sabbath was a big one for me because I loved the heavy riffs. They were writing right and I and I was playing in a power trio and everything. And it's just ironic that I would, that I would audition for Ozzy, you know, sure, you know what I mean. Like 20 years later, whatever it was later, I'd be in a room playing with him, like it was more than surreal because I was such a fan, I was such a fan, right.
Speaker 1:So when? When, would you say, you first started gigging around after your initial uh lessons, and so on and so forth?
Speaker 2:When I was in a band, we got a little trio together and it's really funny because when you think about when you're a kid, you think about music and stuff. Like, I remember I wanted to play the guitar, you know, and all I had was a tennis racket, you know, because I had a neck and strings right, Yep. And my friend Henry wanted to play drums, but all he had was wooden spoons and some pots and pans. And my friend John wanted to play bass, but all he had was a broom. Remember, we literally would sit in my bedroom, we put on Black Sabbath and Aerosmith and we would, you know, we would play our instruments.
Speaker 1:Right Awesome.
Speaker 2:And it was so funny because Henry actually did become a drummer, john did become a bassist and I did become a guitarist and we ended up with an actual band where we played real instruments. Like isn't that the coolest thing that is awesome.
Speaker 2:You willed it into existence we really did, and his mother's pots and pans were all dented and broke, but you know, and the spoon. But other than that, um, we got the band off the ground and we started playing like high school dances. And I probably started playing when I was about 17. I was playing live shows, doing like, you know, the high school dance or we would like rent. We always sort of like 30 days out. We'd have to have a show like we'd rent like the, the don polsky or the american legion hall for you, and we'd throw our own little gig and we'd print up tickets and sell them and then we'd do a show and then next month we try to find some other way to play at least one show.
Speaker 1:And that's kind of what we did Now even back then were you kind of the ringleader as far as organizing all this stuff.
Speaker 2:I was. I was early on in the band because I was the only one that could sing and play guitar. So I kind of became the guy and I was always like the driving force of the band because I was the guitarist and sometimes they liked it. They were like yeah, gary, you pick the set, you pick the songs, and you know. And then there was times when I was a little bit of a dictator and the alpha male, um, you know, a little too strong. Uh, my lesson, you know.
Speaker 2:I remember being in a band and, um, I wasn't getting along with some of the members. You know, in the band, you know that happens. And I remember like telling everybody yeah, you know, I of this guy, man, I'm drawing the line right here, who's with me, you know, and I back up and like the whole band stays over there, I'm like I guess I'm going solo. And I learned that day that there's nicer ways to tell people to do things and I had to kind of, you know, learn how to be a decent band member. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:I gotcha. You know you mentioned something interesting about the school dances. I mean remember when we were in high school, I mean it's like every homecoming there was like at least three or four occasions a year where there was live music in your school and that was awesome and they were like full production was awesome and they were like full production. And then if you got to play one of those things, it was it was like the greatest thing of all time and that always depressed me about. You know, my kids went through high school. Uh, you know it was all DJs. But even even that, I mean, I remember when I was a kid, some of my first exposure to live music was like at weddings. You know, you'd like the band was setting up and you just sit there like in awe. It's like, oh my God, is this going to be really loud? Oh, you know, and you sit by the guitar player and watch that stuff and I and so many of those experiences for people to experience live music have have gone. But of course it's. You know there's other things. Now you can go online and you can see anybody play anywhere.
Speaker 1:But you know, kind of my line lately is as much as you know, as you mentioned, during uh uh, you know, covid, I was my lifeline to the world. Uh was, um, you know, doing stuff online and a big part of my business, uh, has been online. But it's a great way to to communicate with people and have them hear your music and and and, but it's not the same as being in the room with people playing live music, and I think that's one of the things that needs to, you know, be said now. I mean, I like to, I facetiously say, you know, the internet's not real, and what I mean by that is like it's kind of like, you know, it's not as esoteric and is kind of airy fairy, if you will is is thinking about the difference between vinyl and digital.
Speaker 1:But I originally had this experience lately or recently, where we were, you know, I had to listen to the test pressing of the vinyl and um, and we were listening to the vinyl and it sounds great. And then we listened to the digital version on this through the same system and the digital version was like you were looking at it and the vinyl version was like you were amongst it. You know what I mean and I think that that those same types of experiences that really can't be explained unless you you are experiencing it. Uh is something that the internet can never. I fear that people construe the internet as as the only true means now of, uh, of qualifying popularity and so on and so forth, and and musicality, when it will always be about being in the room with the folks, because you can never replace that. Would you agree, or am I being too off Get?
Speaker 1:off my lawn kid.
Speaker 2:No, I think you're absolutely right on the money, because what it is is a great analogy you put with the analog versus digital, because I've always said this for many, many years um, making records when digital. You know, I remember when CDs came out I always said digital takes a great picture of what it sees. You know it. Just it sees exactly what it says. It goes okay, this is what I'm taking and it's just, it's like. It's like when you record in pro tools and all these other digital workstations. You know they're not going to give you a Metallica sound. It's what you record in sound in Metallica. Get a nice tube amp and put a nice mic in front of it and use a nice tube mic pre and the digital is going to take a picture of that beautiful, warm sound that you just gave it.
Speaker 2:Analog reacts to what you do to it. Analog take reacts, compression reacts, and you're right. And I think it's the same thing in life. You know, I tell my son this you know, if you're in the bedroom too much playing guitar, you become a bedroom guitar player. You know it's like having like a lot of people online. You know they talk really big online Like I don't like you and you stink it's. I call that virtual balls. It's not like real balls. Has come to my face and say that.
Speaker 1:Right Virtual balls. I love it.
Speaker 2:You're online just going yeah, I'm real cool, I'm real tough, but you're not. Maybe you're not in the real life, in the real world. So get out and get some real life experiences. And that, what I mean by that is like my son, ian, went to the Dallas guitar show with us. We were all hanging out. You were there. It was amazing, and you know he I said, ian, what was your favorite thing of the whole weekend? Was it playing with dad? You know, was it having barbecue? Was it? What was it? And it was. It was him jamming with my friend, joe Mass. Guitar player Joe.
Speaker 1:Mass. I know, joe, yeah.
Speaker 2:Joe was an awesome guitar player from Pennsylvania. He invited Ian for a jam on his show. So Ian was away from me, you know, he went out and played a jam with this guy. He had no idea what he was going to play until he got there and he got on stage and had this awesome experience playing music with new people, with a different band, and they traded licks and they did all this stuff and I think that makes you grow so much more than playing 10 hours of scales up and down. Sometimes I practice and I go. I'm just practicing these things, but I'm not practicing reacting to music and that's a different thing, you know, getting on stage and jamming and whatever you're doing. So you're absolutely right, and more musicians need to get out and start bands, play with other people. My early guitar playing was mostly sitting across from another guitar player, just playing a rhythm part and him playing a solo and then me her playing a solo and trading off and just learning how to be a decent rhythm player.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And I was a teacher, my students I would always make them play with me some part in our lesson. They'd always say I'd take 10 or 15 minutes to jam and I'd say, okay, now you need to comp these chord progression. And so often they couldn't comp behind me, you know, and they couldn't keep it steady. But when they were solo, when they were having a great time, but it was my turn, I'd look at them. I go dude, you just like all the balloons just popped, it's my turn. And then you're not even tapping your foot and keeping the time goal.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly I was embarrassed, but I would be like, come on, man, just keep the groove going, and by the fifth lesson, just that what I meant by that was just the interaction of two guitarists just playing.
Speaker 1:Well, it's an interesting point you make there as well, because I've noticed that, even when you're playing with musicians that have been playing for years on end, there's something about playing with people versus playing at them. You know what I mean, and it's a language that that, again, through just doing it all the time and learning, learning the manners and the respect of who you're playing with, and realizing, hey, you know, when I'm playing rhythm, I'm doing my best to make that person sound the best they can be, as opposed to I just can't wait to play again and I'm just going to fill space in until it's my time again. Uh, I just can't wait to play again and I'm just gonna fill space in until it's my time again.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and that's and that's something that you know. Again, you know you get inspired by what the person is playing if you pay attention. You know, like I, we would always trade off and my friends would play something. I'd be like, oh man, when I get back to my turn I'm gonna try that thing he did, but I'm gonna do it like this and right, and then you both start doing a little bit better because you're feeding each other back and forth and that and that's something that, um, you know I think it makes us grow. You know it makes us grow as musicians. You know it's challenging each other and I and I have to say this because I host a lot of jams, you know, um, and I do stuff with rock and roll fantasy camp.
Speaker 2:I host an all-star jam on the rock legends cruise, right, sometimes I have, you know, 30, you know 40 people all coming to jam and I and I have to kind of corral everybody and make everybody shine. You know, and that's a challenge sometimes, and sometimes I'll have five guitar players up there, and what you were just saying about rhythm players, like sometimes they're all playing rhythm and someone's playing and I'm like we're all too loud, let's back it off a little bit. You know, and support that other guy, because that's sometimes, you know, what people don't do, is they just blast, full blast, and I'm like, well, you can't hear the guy, nobody else can hear the guy, and I call it jam etiquette. You know, there's a little jam.
Speaker 1:Well, to that point too is that I don't think people realize that the volume control on a guitar actually functions.
Speaker 2:You mean it goes down until it's up? Yeah, I thought you just put it on up and then pull off the knob.
Speaker 1:We interrupt this regularly scheduled gristle infested conversation to give a special shout out to our friends at Fishman Transducers, makers of the Greg Koch signature fluence gristle tone pickup set Can you dig that? And our friends at Wildwood Guitars of Louisville, colorado, bringing the heat and the shadow of the Rocky Mountains. Well, talk a little bit about those rock and roll fantasy camps. I've never done one of those, but they look like fun so people can pay to attend these things with people such as yourself and various you know name rock and roll stars and so on and so forth. What's it like? It's different from like a regular guitar camp per se. Is it more just about the hang or is it all about playing? And how much time do you actually get to interact with folks and how does that all function?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a great time.
Speaker 2:It is a four-day camp.
Speaker 2:You know, like a lot of camps it's a four-day camp and we basically the whole concept is we have about maybe anywhere from eight to 10 bands that we put together with all the musicians that sign up, and they're all musicians, all levels, beginners to intermediate to some advanced people, and basically you get a band and then you get assigned a counselor, like me or somebody else who's an experienced rock musician or whatever, and then they'll help them basically 48 hours in a rehearsal studio to get ready to play live.
Speaker 2:So on the third day we go to the Whiskey, a Go-Go, or we go to the Viper Room or some venue, the Troubadour, and we get on stage. And sometimes they're in Las Vegas, different locations, and so if you show up, you know you have, you have time to maybe we do like a zoom, couple of zoom meetings before we get there. So everybody knows what they're going to play and what songs we're going to pick. And then there's the headliners, like maybe a Lou Graham, a Zach Wild, you know, depending on the theme, and then we'll play it. We'll all pick one song that we get to play with Zach Wilde and one song with Lou Graham, and then the headliners will come on one day.
Speaker 2:You know, we just hang with them for like maybe 10 minutes, we play, we take some pictures and then they go to the next band and but it's an amazing experience, bro. I mean so many amazing musicians I've become great friends with around the country and then a lot of the great headliners that come in, you know just amazing people, and when they come to the camp they really love it, because it's weird, it reminds us about why we loved music in the first place. Like when you see these people come in that are so excited they've never played on stage before or they were in a garage band in college but they never kind of did the whole thing it's like reliving it, you know.
Speaker 1:Well, it's funny you should say that because every now and again you'll listen to something that initially you remember listening to that record and how it would make you feel. And so many years go by and you're not jaded but you've just moved on and you've done. But every now and again you get that glimpse of what it was first like to hear that stuff and just first discover how to play like that first chord for that one song. And I would imagine being amongst people like that that are coming to something like that. They're in that moment where they're like experiencing it for the first time and it's like, oh, that's right, that's right and it's a challenge because you're dealing with a guy that can only play three chords.
Speaker 2:I've had people in my band there where I just had to show them a root and a fifth and just slide their hand around. You know to play the song and they find a way to make it work. And you think of us as musicians. I mean think about the years of playing that you know, you noticed you got better. You know, oh man, I got better, I got better at this, or there was a thing you couldn't do that you really worked hard at it and then you, finally, you could do it. Remember those feelings. I mean now, you know I've been playing for decades. You've been playing for decades. It's hard to wake up every day and go like, wow, man, that was real challenging, you know. I mean my challenging thing is making sure my you know my arthritis or whatever that's coming into my fingertips once in a while. I'm just keeping my hands going you know, right right, right right.
Speaker 2:That's sort of well. Let's talk about that for a second Cause. I just had an issue with my hands. Um, I was having an issue with my left hand and my son, ian, actually he's been having a little problems with tendonitis type of things.
Speaker 2:He went to college, he was overplaying and then he did something in the gym one day, greg. He grabbed like a straight bar and he was lifting weights and he did something in his wrist and he's been dealing with it now for almost two years. And I had a thing where I just went to the doctor a hand doctor to check out my my wrist because I was having some pain and what I did was I guess I overdid it. You know, I just was overplaying and I did something and I had an injury. I fell, um, I fell a few years ago and I kind of hyperextended my hand, I landed and it went back.
Speaker 2:So I kind of a little bit of thing that's always sort of in there now, but uh, I've been doing some stretching. Um, I was talking to Yngwie Malmsteen, cause he's a shredder, you know he plays a lot and we did a tour. He said he eats a lot of bananas. Um, he said potassium in the banana helps his. He said it helps keeps his forearms from having pain. Have you ever had any pain in your fingers or hands or I've been really lucky in that I haven't.
Speaker 1:Uh, the only time I've been really lucky in that I haven't, the only time I've ever experienced any kind of cramping was from being dehydrated. You know, I'd be like what's going on with my hand? I'd be like, well, I'm sweating like a pig, and then I would, you know, I would drink water or you know, you know the banana thing for the, for potassium, and you know, getting that muscle stuff back online again. But I've been really, really lucky. But I, the only thing I can I can think of is that, um, you know, a while back I just realized that, um, cause, I used to grab. That's one of the things I talk about when I talk about you know, at one point, you know, I'd always have this kind of dual way of looking at things when I was playing. You know, if I was playing just rock and blue stuff, I had more of this kind of relaxed grip and would just kind of, I didn't need to warm up, I could just do it and it wasn't a big deal. But if I was doing anything that required any kind of like alternate picking and my hand would get this more rigid, the fingers would be more perpendicular to the strings and I'd get kind of a more traditional grip. What I realized that I was doing is I was, even though I was only playing one note at a time, I was having equal pressure on all fingers at the same time, because I was so nervous, because I was insecure about that style of my playing, and so I would grip the neck you know real tense and at some point I realized, well, that's not doing anybody any favor. So I realized all I need to do is just have a little burst of energy at the exact moment I need to, of that individual finger, at the time I need it, and that really helped me. So I play a lot looser with my left hand and I and I have done now for I don't know, maybe 20 years.
Speaker 1:I kind of came to that conclusion and maybe that helps also with my with my right hand, with the hybrid picking. I came to that conclusion as well, because what I was doing for the longest time is I realized that if I plucked with my right hand, with my fingers, the pluck notes were louder than my pick notes, and so then I would be like well, I got to pick harder in order to match the pluck notes, and then I just found I was picking really hard and plucking really hard. Then I realized, well, why don't you split the difference? So now I don't pluck as hard with my fingers and then I I'm able to kind of match it up a little bit more with like. So I've just gotten way less intense with how much pressure I bring to the fore, but that, and I've been extremely fortunate that, for whatever reason, I haven't had any accident.
Speaker 1:I remember years ago I was a water skier. I think I was in high school and I was trying to learn how to slalom. And high school and I was trying to learn how to slalom, and I was big then too, and this boat didn't have much, didn't have much gumption, so I just kept. It was like, and I and I got to the point where I couldn't close my hands for like four days and that scared the shit out of me. So I've always been really paranoid about anything that might, might do it.
Speaker 2:But that being said, I've just been lucky and I I haven't had any kind of carpal tunnel things or any kind of muscle or strain, and you know, I most of my career did not either, and one thing I always did was I would practice 10 hours a day. But I would always like if I started to feel like any sharp, like sort of sharp pains.
Speaker 1:I would stop.
Speaker 2:You know, and that's the thing with guitar players out there is, make sure you take some breaks when you're feeling that. And another thing I've been doing lately is I've been doing this thing where I'm practicing and I'll pick like a tempo or whatever, say it's 140 beats a minute or something, put the metronome on and I'll just, you know, warm up and play eighth notes. You know just some eighth notes, and then I'll start playing 16th notes, just kind of you know, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And I noticed the whole physical thing that happens with your body. Like when you go from fast notes to halftime, it your shoulders kind of drop, your breathing kind of relaxes and then as soon as you double time it, you kind of tense up.
Speaker 2:I've been practicing to maintain that sort of you see, when I go fast and it's getting getting better, it's getting easier to help me, um, to play more relaxed with my hands and not put, like you're saying, don't be gripping it, you don't have to put so much energy into it, but those are some good. You know tips for guitar players out there that'll listen and just remember that. Listen to your body. You know if you're playing really hard and you're feeling like sharp pain, take a break. Exactly.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, one thing that really helped me out quite a bit, um, some of the many good things about the internet was, you know, I always used to listen to um, I guess I was first exposed to these guys late high school, early college, um, cause I was getting into the country style. It never was. I always enjoyed that, that aspect of playing, but only as it kind of pertained to what I was doing. I never really wanted to be a country guitar player per se, but I got into Jimmy Bryant and Speedy West and I would listen to that stuff. And Jimmy Bryant had this amazing he was like a country jazz shredder, you know. And then there was Joe Maphis, who was another one who would do these.
Speaker 1:It was kind of these really fast bluegrass things on electric guitar and you could tell that Steve Morris was influenced by them and that's kind of what got me into it, cause I was, I'd listened to the drags and he would do one of those tunes and his tunes were, I mean, steve Morris was like unobtainium as far as I concerned. I mean he was just he was doing these tunes that were worked out and were just so technically complex and I was like, well, I'll never really have the discipline or really the desire to figure out one of these songs all the way through, but I do want to be, you know, be able to play some of that as it pertains to what I'm doing. So I remember that. You know I would learn. I learned, you know, this tune, pride of the Farm, by Steve Morris it was.
Speaker 1:I don't think I ever had it up to. Maybe I performed it like three times in my life, but, and then I started. I started getting into all this Jimmy Bryant stuff and but I was, it was again. It was one of those things where every time I had to play it, I would stiffen up and I would have to warm up before I would play that stuff or else I would. There was never be. I could never be able to do it.
Speaker 1:So finally, when I started um, going online and you could watch videos of pretty much anybody, I was like I wonder if there's videos of Jimmy Bryant and Joe Maphis, and so I started putting on these videos of these guys. And these guys were not stressing out, they're, they're leaning back and their hand, their right hand, was the most relaxed thing I'd ever seen and they're just going and I thought well, this isn't about trying hard at all to them, it was just as it was. It was just like falling off a log. It was the easiest thing, it was just conversational. And ever since that moment I realized oh no, this isn't about stressing out, or you know and it was, it was a revelation to me, that's. That's one of the things I say about the internet at this point. It's like you can either find the original guy playing it online or if some other guy trying to play it, or sometimes really nailing it, you've got transcriptions of, like every artist known to man.
Speaker 2:There really is no reason to suck at this point right, exactly, you can find, you can find it, you can slow it down, you can do whatever. We couldn't do that when we were kids we had no way no way tape down and go from there. But uh, yeah, that's amazing, man. I mean it's, and you know for me like I see the young musicians coming up now. They're getting younger and younger and more and more talented.
Speaker 1:Yeah no doubt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the information's there and it drives me crazy. Check out this kid. He's seven. I'm like I don't even want to see it. I don't even want to, don't even show me. I know he did his first gig in the fallopian tube.
Speaker 1:I know, that's what I say I always make the joke of like the first. The next blue star is going to be in utero slim with his cover of dust, my womb oh, you're way ahead of me, greg.
Speaker 2:I should have known, I should have known well.
Speaker 1:Next thing you know it's going to be insects, you know it's going to be some. They've trained some praying mantis to do eruption and that's going to be all over the internet.
Speaker 2:You know it's crazy form of the Beatles.
Speaker 1:They're actually Beatles and exactly, but you know it is. It is cool to hear a lot, you know I again, it's, it's just all I mean. If it gets people interested in music, I, you know. You know at some point, you know you just gotta be again, you gotta be grateful for what you get and the amount of people that you know understand what's going on. If, if you can get them to care about what you're doing, that's really the thing I mean it's.
Speaker 1:It's one of those things where you think at some point will there be such a such a quantity of technically proficient people that people will be immune to the magic of it? And I guess that's, you know, that's completely out of our control. I mean, to me it's always been. You know about phrasing and vibrato and tone, and that seems to be something that is still a mystery to a lot of people. You know what I mean. It's one of those things where when you hear it, you feel it and but there's a lot of people that that can shred all this stuff and then when they do their vibrato, it kind of sounds like a, you know an insect being crucified or something.
Speaker 1:And and you know not that I, like most guitar players, I'm waiting to find their, their weakness. Oh, they play great, but they're. That's not correct. That's not what I mean, it's just. You know what I mean. It's like there's something about you know things as they get farther from the forth and everything is kind of taken off from that. And the farther you get away from that source, it seems, the less emotionally connected you are. That's not to say that you know, and of course there's a lot of people that are still you know, that are the newer players, still they understand that connection to that older stuff and that seems to have a bigger connection to the folks. Well, maybe I'm high on crack. What do you think about all that?
Speaker 2:I agree. No, I'm with you too. I'm smoking the same crack. I think, um, I think the young kids, um, when they do have a vibrato and a feel. That's usually what attracts me, like when I hear a young musician go and he hits a note and I go Whoa, I hear the old soul in there, right, just hear the technical ability Like I'm initially impressed but then I don't know where to go from there. I and we can talk about it for a second because I get approached by lots of parents, you know, that are coming up to me because there's so many prodigies out there now and they're like Gary, what do I do for my son? You know he's 14. And where and I'm like, I think you go to Dairy Queen. You know Right, it's delicious.
Speaker 2:As a kid, I mean, you know, when I was a kid, I mean my son's 22. You know he's now touring with me. He's starting to tour with me now and I could have dragged him on the road and put him on YouTube. When he was seven, you know, he was pretty good. When he was nine, you know Right, he used to play the.
Speaker 2:What do I do with my kid? Where do we go from here? And they have no songs. You know they have no career yet. They have no band, they have no image, they have no logo, they have no design, like. I'm just like unless I'm wrong. I mean there's, there's a level of things that you have to go through, like I.
Speaker 2:I let my son be be a kid and I let him grow up and I said, ian, if you, if you're going to make your life music and I tell this to musicians all the time if you're going to make your life music like this is what you're going to do for a living and you really believe this, then why are you in a hurry like? What is your hurry like? Slow down and figure out what you're going to do by the end of this week. You know, don't worry about everything else. Take your little goals will lead to the big goals. But, um, you know, I just think a lot of parents are just so excited to get their kids like super famous by the time they're 17. And that can be a good thing and it can be a bad thing.
Speaker 1:It can be horrible, exactly. I mean, I get the same thing, you know, and I always and of course most of the people don't listen to me, but that's all right because you know you're supposed to take everything with a grain of salt and figure it out on your own. But I think that that you know that delusion of grandeur thing where they think, well, you know, it was different. I don't know what. You know, your mom sounds like she's probably the same generation. As you know, my, my folks, I mean my dad and my mom were supportive of what I did, but they were also horrified that I was going to be a musician because they, they knew that it was a a path that was fraught with peril and that there was no certainties whatsoever and that, you know, if I was used to, you know, growing up and you know, and all my siblings went to college and got careers and you know and did this, that and the next thing, and that if I wanted that kind of a life that you know, choosing a career as a musician was probably not going to be it. And of course I was like you're delusional, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to do X, y and Z and whatnot, and I suffered accordingly. But uh, I I try to tell people that you know, you know, cause they think that, well, parents are different. Now it's like I mean, I kind of make the example as an and of course this is just my own dysfunction but when I was coming, I was born in 66. I don't know when you were about the same age, right, 1960. Okay, so we're right around the same age when I started playing and I was doing bluesy oriented stuff literally the only reason why I probably got into that music because I was the youngest of seven kids and I was kind of an oops right, so I was kind of a de facto boomer right.
Speaker 1:Everyone else that was my age was probably like the first or second oldest in their family. So they didn't grow up with the music of the sixties. So they didn't know who Hendrix was or, you know, cream or Zeppelin or any of these bands. They were like, like Kiss was their entree into music or or, or whatever later on, you know, like Rush was their favorite band of all time, which was all well and dandy, but they didn't know any about the stuff that I was into.
Speaker 1:So I would go out and do you know, as this young, burgeoning, you know blues rock guy with this tinge of country crap all in my playing, and and the boomers were still in the hunt at that point in time, they were still young enough where they were still trying to make it and do their thing. So they were like you're too young. You know, you've got to live a little bit in order to you know that your, your music does, your, your the field doesn't mean anything until you've gone through life. And I was like, yeah, but Clapton was 19 and the blues breakers record, and you know the guys, hend was 19 and the blues breakers record and you know the guys, hendrix was 21 when he, you know like, yeah, that doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:But then when I realized that years later, when the boomers started to have kids, then it was cool for for, like you know, seven and eight year olds to be playing blues, then it was meaningful and they were taking him to all the jams, like my dad never took me to a jam, he would have been mortified. And now it's become kind of this, this stage parent thing, and again, I'm not I'm not, you know poo-pooing it, I'm just saying it's completely different from what we did Cause, you know, music was really kind of rebellion, was it not? I mean, for us it was like everyone's telling us we couldn't do it, but we're going to do it Now. Parents think it's going to be their, their way. They're going to retire.
Speaker 2:You're right, and it might be because American Idol and these shows. They see the shows and the voice and they think my kid's going to instantly be famous and we're going to, you know, move out of this trailer. But the bottom line is, you know, for me, I look at young musicians and I think, like my mom kicked me out of the house when I was 17 years old, my mom literally was like and I'm going to admit it, I became a musician and that's all I wanted to do and I was a bit of a pop-up. I just wanted to sit and play my guitar. All the time. My mom's like you're out of school, you've got to get a job and I didn't. She's like they're hiring at the laundromat. I didn't want to work at the laundromat, so she's out was the best thing she ever did. I had to get a day job and playing a band and I thank my mother for that. But, bro, I think if you look at musicians, you know, like the parents that are now saying, what do I do for my kid? What do I do for my kid?
Speaker 2:It really comes down to the kid. You know, to me some people grow up and they have this will, this drive. That is not going to stop them and they're going to find a way to do it. You and I did it, ali Venable's do it, you and I did it, allie Venable's doing it, king Fish is doing it, kenny Wayne Shepard did it. When you see these young people come out, because I remember when Kenny came out he was a teenager and I was on my second album. He came out in the early 90s and he was like the new kid on the block and he stood the test of time and I think other kids will too. But I think there's some young people that they're so driven you know what I mean like nothing's going to stop them. They're going to create their, their way to get on a stage, their way to make a record. Ali venable made her first record at 16 years old.
Speaker 2:I mean, I had a real to real tape machine in my bedroom when I was 17. You know I was, I was recording. You know when I was. Actually I was recording demos when I was 16. And so I think some kids have that drive and if you have determination where you just won't take no for an answer and my whole career, I always said to people I never had a plan B. My life was always going to be this. There was never a plan B. But the truth is, our lives, greg, have been nothing but a series of plan Bs. Right, plan A didn't work and we had to find a plan B. But the truth is, our lives, greg, have been nothing but a series of plan Bs. Right, plan A didn't work and we had to find a plan B. Oh, that didn't work, let's find a plan B. So anybody out there that's like you know things aren't happening, for you realize that it isn't happening, but there's another plan. You just got to keep changing your plan. It doesn't mean you're not going to find a way.
Speaker 1:Exactly, exactly. You're going to keep on doing it. Well, what's that old Frank Zappa quote when he said people ask me what they should do about music and I said my advice is two simple things Don't quit and never stop.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I mean great advice and we're blessed. I mean if you wake up every day. It's easy to get depressed in life and different things come at you, and if you just wake up every day realizing you're lucky, if you're a musician, your blessing is there to not only play for yourself when you're feeling down or feeling up, but to share it with people, to share it with the world and get out and play music and change lives. What else can we do, bro? We're changing lives through our music.
Speaker 1:Well, I'll tell you what We've been. We've been touring quite a bit in the last few years with the band, with my son, which, of course, is awesome. But that's the most meaningful thing is when you have people come up and they just say listen, you know, whether watching your live streams or doing this, that the next thing you've really had an impact and you're like holy shit, that's. You know, there's days where you're like oh God, and then you hear someone say that it's like you made a difference in someone's life that lives in Poughkeepsie, or you know what I mean, that you had no idea and that's pretty awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what keeps us excited. It keeps us going. You know I'm working on a new album right now. That's, you know, way overdue, way overdue A few years. I should have had it out a few years ago, but I was taking care of my mom for a couple years and with other things, but uh, but now I'm excited because I have new music coming out. And, uh, you know, but we all go through the same fears, the same, you know, the same uh, scaredness of like music.
Speaker 2:You know, I've been writing out, I put out you know 20 something albums and every time I make a new album I'm nervous. I'm like, can I write anymore? And I'll write songs, and then I'll go. I don't even know if I'd like this song, I think I hate this song. And then my son will walk in the room and he'll go dad, that's really cool. And then I'll go, wow, is it? Oh right. And then, all of a sudden heart, you know, it's going to be good. I mean, some songs you might not be as good as other songs, but we can be our own worst enemies and our own worst critics.
Speaker 2:And it's like, you know, getting out of your own way and relaxing when you're playing, it's the same thing. You, you're, you're, you're taking your body and you're saying get out of my way, don't give me extra tense. You know, give me, give me more relaxation and and and I try to play lazy too, and I think all of this this adds up to um, you know what we're trying to put out in the music, which is a good energy, you know.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And uh, I don't know about you, sit down and just start playing. It's like you know, say hello to the fam, hey, what's going on? And then they're doing their own thing getting ready. When I'll just sit down and just start playing and and, uh, you know, you just, you'll never be lonely if you play guitar. That's the one thing I always tell folks. It's like, look, forget about delusions of granular, forget about you know this that the next thing don't be online participating in who's underrated, who's overrated, who's the greatest of all time.
Speaker 2:just fucking play the guitar when I leave my studio at night, bro, like behind me you can see some of my guitars I got. I got like a prs over there. I got a couple fenders, a hammer, like sometimes when I'm leaving the studio at night I just I walk by a guitar and I just go.
Speaker 2:I need to play you right now just for a minute exactly for a minute, cause I just, I just, it's so beautiful, I just like I want to play you for a minute, and then you know, and what, what, what is like one thing you play, like when you wake up in the morning, is there. Is there something, things that you like to play, or certain things that you play, or do you just noodle around?
Speaker 1:Well, it depends. Usually I just I just start stamping my foot and I might do some kind of a, you know, blues with chords and and uh and leads intermixed, you know, and that's pretty much it. I might play a new, a tune of mine, I might play a little standard, but usually I just start tapping the foot and just going and uh, usually on, sometimes with an acoustic, but a lot of times just with an unplugged electric guitar. I kind of. You know, I've got this 53 strat that are tele, excuse me, that I got about 10 years ago and the pickups are really microphonic and one of these days I'm going to do something about it.
Speaker 1:But I don't really play it out all that much. But by God, I love just playing it around the house. And there's something about looking at that old crusty, you know, just ravaged instrument that just you just. It's just sitting there playing it acoustically, the woods all dried out and it just has this cool thing and uh, but I, you know we got hardwood floors in the house. I'll just start tapping with my foot and just going. That's my favorite thing to do.
Speaker 2:That's so nice. I do the same kind of thing. I have a. I have a guitar that I keep next to the couch on a stand. You know, it's's just, it's just the couch guitar. It stays there all the time and sometimes it changes. And I do the same thing. I grab my coffee, uh, and my water, because you know I'm sick about hydration so yeah, you gotta stay hydrated the hydrates.
Speaker 2:I always like grab a bunch of water first thing with my coffee. But I, um, I do the same thing. I just sit and play some blues unplugged. I have a little katana amp, one of those little battery amps, and they're awesome. Sometimes I plug in the Katana just to put some, cause it's just different, you know, and uh, but I'll play just the blues. Sometimes I'll play some scales, I'll play different things, but, um, I'm doing a thing lately to um, just to challenge my brain a little bit, cause I get, I get tired of playing like a minor pentatonic all the time. So, play a minor and then I'll think of what is the third of a minor. You know, the minor third it's a c, and then I'll switch to c minor and I'll play a little c minor and then I'll think what's the minor third of c minor? It's e, flat, and then I'll go to e flat minor, and I keep doing that and then eventually it comes back to a right. You know it's back to a, and then I'll change keys.
Speaker 2:But that's a little thing that I do just to kind of sure losing it, you know, and just solo through key changes while it's, while you're still going. You know what I mean. Just to challenge. It's a different sort of thing, but that's something I've been doing lately. It's fun.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Well. The bottom line is just playing is good, just any kind of plan is is good times. I, you know, I'm still such a Hendrix geek there. I just I'm always, you know, I'm always playing those tunes or, you know, redoing them. I've probably mentioned this on the last five podcasts I've done.
Speaker 1:But there's this new thing on YouTube, it's called Belly Button Window Channel and this guy goes through and it's an AI voice. It's like this English AI voice and they literally go through every month of Hendrix's career day by day, and they literally go through every month of Hendrix's career day by day, talking about where he was. It's diary entries and newspaper articles and magazine interviews and you know it's awesome and it's fascinating. So you get done listening to that and you're like I wonder if there's a bootleg of that concert that they just talked about. And sure enough, you can find all that stuff online now and then there'll be a version of a tune. I'll just sit there and cause Hendrix, of course, never played the same thing twice and it was all in. Some nights were really good and other nights was just and it was just like the wild West back then. It's like they'd show up and you know, sometimes there was no PA.
Speaker 1:I mean, I got this great picture of this guy dropped in Wildwood and when I was out there doing videos and Steve's like hey, there's a guy here, he said he's a fan, he wants to give you something. And he gave me this, this picture that he took of Hendrix playing in 1968 in Toledo, and it's he's sitting in like the fourth row and you got Hendrix, you know, and he's got his stack of Marshalls and Noel Redding's got his pile of of a sun amps. And I'm looking at the drum kit and I show it to my son. I go, what do you notice about this picture? He goes there's no mics on the drums.
Speaker 1:I'm like, exactly, imagine that. It's like from night to night it's complete. Let's just stage volume tonight. And I remember hearing about them playing at Madison Square Garden and they would just drop the boxing mic down and that was the way to spread. You know what I mean. So it's kind of like this old West vibe to the, you know, because they were just figuring it out on the fly. But anyway, so there's a lot of times I'll just get up in the morning and I'll I'll just start playing some old Hendrix tunes and reworking them, cause I'm you know. It's the weirdest thing with Hendrix even after you know and you think about it, it's like Jesus Christ this guy Fascinating when you think about it.
Speaker 2:I mean, I was just playing Hendrix the other morning I was playing Angel.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's a great one, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Old song, angel Just playing it because it's a beautiful song, and I was soloing on it and I was just looking at the chords and the arrangement and thinking like how do you come up with this kind of arrangement? It's so odd and so amazing. And Jimmy was just so flowing with his music. I did a show, I did a tribute show, we called it the 27 Club, and I did a show with Warren Haynes and we did it for a heroin recovery thing and we played all the artists that died when they were 27. Right, it was really kind of crazy. Yeah, jimmy Kurt Cobain, it was Amy Winehouse. Kind of crazy. Yeah, jimmy kurt cobain, it was amy winehouse.
Speaker 2:I mean, it just went on and on and on right jim morrison, yep brian jones, janice joplin I mean it was crazy how many people died at 27 that were so talented and the music they left and legacy they left in that short time does it make us feel? It makes me feel lazy angel's a good one.
Speaker 1:There I've been. I did a little kind of a tribute show to Jimmy, this one now it's probably four years ago now, but you know, and I did some of the tunes were cause I was used to singing some of the band of gypsy stuff and so on. But there's other Hendrix songs that you know we never played live because to play them and sing them at the same time is impossible, you know. And so I worked up an instrumental version where I was doing the melody of of angels. It was, it's just such a great tune. Another one that's a lot of fun from that cry of love record.
Speaker 1:I've ever messed around with it as drifting. That's a great tune. Song, love drifting and just just the progression of it is is beautiful. But yeah, it's just what was so great about it is that when you, when you think back about you know, like when we were coming up, we almost felt, because there were so many people around that had this kind of jazz influence, that they looked down at you if you were just a pentatonic person.
Speaker 1:So you're like, well, I got to learn a little bit more, I got to learn what these modes are and so on and so forth. But then you listen to Hendrix and it's like he did everything with the pentatonic scale that could be done and and added a few extra notes in there. But he had this kind of intrinsic sense of playing over changes with with just what he knew. He heard change like you know, something like little wing or something, something like that where you kind of have to navigate those changes or it's going to sound weird and and he knew how to do that, but it was just like here's a guy who just took basic diatonic harmony and created this glorious tome of music.
Speaker 2:It's so true, and if you think of the solo that he the original solo to little wing, it was like the perfect written solo too. Yeah, you know, it was perfectly beautifully written, where he sounded like he was feeling it and not even thinking about what notes they were actually on. Exactly, exactly, correct. We're like where are we now? Is that the minor?
Speaker 1:Exactly what's going on here.
Speaker 2:That song is always a challenge, my, you know, Ian. Ian and I were jamming on it the other day and challenge. It's just like or or. It's more interesting to find more ways to play over it. It just never ends, Right, Crazy.
Speaker 1:Well, listen, my friend, it's been absolutely a blast talking with you. Thanks so much for taking the time. This has been glorious, great catching up with you.
Speaker 2:You too, man. This has been an amazing hang with you, brother. I miss you and I appreciate you having me on. It was awesome.
Speaker 1:An absolute pleasure and it should be up in a couple of weeks and we'll get it out onto the. We'll get it on the information superhighway. It's been going very well. People have been tuning into these quite a bit, which has been very gratifying. So I appreciate you doing it and hopefully we'll cross paths one of these days in person again. Do some playing.
Speaker 2:I'm looking forward to that. My friend, we got to play some Hendrix together.
Speaker 1:Oh, play some Hendrix together. Let's do it. I'd love it. All right, gary, you take care of yourself. Thank you, bye, bro. See you later. Thank you so much, folks, for tuning in. Special Thank you to wildwood guitars of Louisville, colorado, and the mighty Fishman transducers for making this podcast possible. If you enjoyed yourself, ladies and gentlemen, please subscribe and review so that people can get the word out that this is worth experiencing. Can you dig it? Thanks again. We'll see you soon or you'll hear me soon.
