Chewing the Gristle with Greg Koch
Van Wilks on Life, Legends, and Texas Grooves
Get ready for an unforgettable ride as we catch up with Texas blues rock legend Van Wilks, right here on Chewing the Gristle. From the sweltering Austin heat, Van shares captivating tales from his vibrant musical journey, including the moment he first saw the Beatles on Ed Sullivan in Lubbock. You'll hear all about his memorable performance at the Dallas International Guitar Show and the rich musical tapestry of his early years, influenced by his uncles' country swing bands and the dynamic Texas music scene.
Van takes us through the evolution of music from the 1940s to today, reflecting on the charm of vinyl records and analog recordings, and the creative potential of modern music technology. We explore the motivations behind musicians' careers, the struggle to maintain artistic integrity, and the strategic branding necessary in today's digital age. Personal anecdotes about legends like Stevie Ray Vaughan and ZZ Top give insight into the blues' impact on rock and heavy metal, while highlighting the importance of staying true to one's musical vision.
Finally, Van paints a vivid picture of life on the road with music legends. From Texas barbecues with Jimmy Page and Joe Cocker to performing at the Montreux Jazz Festival, his stories are filled with humor, challenges, and triumphs. We reflect on the shifting music industry landscape, from physical albums to streaming, and the enduring joy of live performances. Whether you're a fan of classic rock, blues, or contemporary music, this episode offers a captivating glimpse into Van Wilks' storied career and the cultural backdrop that shaped his music.
Dedicated to helping musicians achieve the truest sound possible whenever they plug-in.
Wildwood Guitars
One of the world’s premier retailers of exceptional electric and acoustic guitars.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Get ready for an unforgettable ride as we catch up with Texas blues rock legend Van Wilks, right here on Chewing the Gristle. From the sweltering Austin heat, Van shares captivating tales from his vibrant musical journey, including the moment he first saw the Beatles on Ed Sullivan in Lubbock. You'll hear all about his memorable performance at the Dallas International Guitar Show and the rich musical tapestry of his early years, influenced by his uncles' country swing bands and the dynamic Texas music scene.
Van takes us through the evolution of music from the 1940s to today, reflecting on the charm of vinyl records and analog recordings, and the creative potential of modern music technology. We explore the motivations behind musicians' careers, the struggle to maintain artistic integrity, and the strategic branding necessary in today's digital age. Personal anecdotes about legends like Stevie Ray Vaughan and ZZ Top give insight into the blues' impact on rock and heavy metal, while highlighting the importance of staying true to one's musical vision.
Finally, Van paints a vivid picture of life on the road with music legends. From Texas barbecues with Jimmy Page and Joe Cocker to performing at the Montreux Jazz Festival, his stories are filled with humor, challenges, and triumphs. We reflect on the shifting music industry landscape, from physical albums to streaming, and the enduring joy of live performances. Whether you're a fan of classic rock, blues, or contemporary music, this episode offers a captivating glimpse into Van Wilks' storied career and the cultural backdrop that shaped his music.
Dedicated to helping musicians achieve the truest sound possible whenever they plug-in.
Wildwood Guitars
One of the world’s premier retailers of exceptional electric and acoustic guitars.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
At long last. Ladies and gentlemen, season five of Chewing the Gristle is indeed upon us, a convivial conversation fest between myself, gregory S Caulk, esquire and a variety of musical potentates from hither and yon, brought to you by our friends at Wildwood Guitars and our friends at Fishman Transducers, of course, both of which I've had long-standing and continuing relationships with, and I'm very grateful for their continued support in this endeavor to bring you Chewing the Dog on Gristle. We've got a bunch of fun guests, some you have heard of, some maybe not so much. It'll be a little bit of discovery and a little bit of chaos all rolled into one. Thanks for tuning in folks.
Speaker 1:Now, without any further ado, let's chew some gristle. This week, on Chewing the Gristle, we've got a Texas blues rock guitar potentating legend, the mighty Van Wilkes. We're going to get a little taste of that Austin, texas, town. Tune on in as it's about to begin. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, it is time once again to choose some doggone gristle. We have Texas blues guitar potentate and one hell of a cool cat, van Wilkes, with us today to choose some gristle. Are you down in Austin, texas, right now?
Speaker 2:I am in Austin, texas, just waiting for the heat to start. Took the dog out for a walk a little earlier and had to run back for the air conditioning.
Speaker 1:Yes, Now how warm is it right there, at this particular juncture in time, if you have to?
Speaker 2:ask. No, it's probably around 90, already 91. So it's hot.
Speaker 1:It does get a little juicy down there.
Speaker 2:Makes us play faster.
Speaker 1:Well, actually slower. So we gather today to just kind of catch up, see what you're doing. I saw you for a minute in beautiful Dallas, Texas, at the Dallas International Guitar Show.
Speaker 2:And you're always rocking.
Speaker 1:You're always rocking and rolling and I dig it all.
Speaker 2:Well, coming from you, that's quite the honor, because you know all them fancy chords. Like John Lee Hooker said, throw them fancy cords away. I don't want to be here because I tell those young kids throw them fancy cords away.
Speaker 1:Throw them, fancy cords in the garbage.
Speaker 2:I kid the fancy cord, but I do like it.
Speaker 1:You know what it's good for your colon. Apparently, fancy cords make for a resilient entrail.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you hit that right interval and you'll be blowing it out for hours.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, I just thought of a good name for a band resilient entrails. That sounds like a. It could be a thing.
Speaker 2:I think somebody has already done that Along with the band mucus and sucking chest wound.
Speaker 1:Yes, I like it all. So you are a bona fide Texan from start to finish. Now, you were born originally in Galveston, correct? Yeah?
Speaker 2:1951. So yeah, I've served my time on this planet, Still hoping to serve a little bit more.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, galveston was quite the place back then, although I was too young to know about it, but it was a big uh. In the forties and fifties the Maceo's ran it. Uh, incredible stories that my dad would tell me because he ran the JC Penny store and prostitution was pretty much legal gambling. Um, but my dad said it was the safest place in the world because the gangster guys really ran a tight ship. There was a very famous place called the Balinese Room which was immortalized in a ZZ Top song.
Speaker 1:Down at the Balinese.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I luckily got to play there before it blew away in a hurricane. But they had people in the 40s and 50s like Sinatra and it was a big, big deal and they had these. It was on a pier and to load in you had to walk about. It seemed like half a mile, but probably a quarter of a mile out over the water.
Speaker 2:And then there was the restaurant and back then in the 40s and 50s before my time, the gaming tables and my dad told me stories about that being there and it's very eloquent, and you're all dressed up drinking mixed drinks with little umbrellas in them and all kinds of things, and they'd have top flight entertainment from Vegas. But then the Texas Rangers would come in to try to bust the place so they'd turn the tables over and just act like, oh, the Rotary Club is here, and the band would hit. The spotlight, would hit the Rangers when they walked in and started playing the eyes of Texas Arp on you and it just really pissed them off and finally they did shut them down and threw all the gaming tables into the Gulf. So it's nothing now but fish out there. Is there still?
Speaker 2:the pier that it was once on One of those iconic Texas places that could kind of only happen at the Gulf Coast because it was wide open territory then.
Speaker 1:It was wild times, wild times. So how much did you grow up in Galveston before you moved to other places?
Speaker 2:Oh God, we moved when I was about three and then I to Brownwood, and then I. Then we went to Lubbock in 60, right before the Beatles. So that's what changed my life. I say I served time in Lubbock from the third grade to the ninth grade, which would have been like 59 to 66. So, prime, you know, watching Ed Sullivan, seeing the Beatles, which people my age. It was a life-changing event, right Like that black and white TV sitting on the floor in Lubbock and luckily I was I had uncles that played music.
Speaker 2:They were in country swing bands in the ths and 40s and worked at music stores and so they taught me a lot like, turned me on to Bob Wills and Hank Williams and all that stuff which was just the basic learning jumping off part. You know, here's a C chord, oh cool. And then the Beatles hit and it was a game changer, just for everybody. I'm certainly not unique in that situation, but I'm lucky to have grown up in that time when it was so exciting and so changing the society change dress, change clothing, guitar the guitar industry finally became an industry, I mean of the Beatles. They started selling, everybody wanted one and if you were too skinny to play football and got beat up. You know, if you didn't play football, then guitars.
Speaker 1:Guitars was the thing. So when you were in Lubbock.
Speaker 2:Did you ever encounter Bobby Keys in your initial years? He was from Slayton, which is where my dad is from, so we'd go down there every Sunday. Of course he's older was older than me, but no, never did. We moved when I was in the ninth grade. Oh, okay, back to Brownwood, center of Texas, the dead center of Texas. But it was a cool little Texas town to grow up in and we were of course without too much hub hubris. We were the hot band in town the midnight yes, I mean, how could we not be?
Speaker 2:and we'd play the starlight club, which was a really rough place, where willie nelson played before he was famous and our dads would let us go out there, take us out there, and uh, still remember the smell of stale beer, yes, but you know, all of that's a learning experience, uh, and and uh. What blows my mind now is thinking we played the same songs then as you hear every day on classic rock stations right, which you know, know, the kinks, the Beatles, uh, all those guys, all that, all the people back then. It's a testament to that time.
Speaker 1:I mean, I do comment. I do comment on this quite a bit with with friends and stuff, and we shoot the shit and we talk about the fact that you know, when you think about what our parents listened to, uh, you know, my dad was born in 1923.
Speaker 1:My mom, born in, I think 27 right. So you know they had all the music, big band era, so on and so forth started to have kids. But when you think about the music in 1967 versus the music in 1947 it's like completely different. But if you think about the music now versus the music in 1967, it's really not all that different. I mean, you hear a lot of the same material, yeah, and they're and they're constantly finding, uh, new youngins to just kind of carry the flag for that same template. For the most part exactly uh, yeah, I'm.
Speaker 2:I'm really lucky that I grew up in that era and I was a member of the Columbia Record Club, so I still have every record that I ever bought and I was that nerdy guy that put dates on albums, and so it's fun to grab Sgt Pepper June 6th 1967, or June whatever. And I know I'm sure music has the same effect on you. It takes you back immediately. You hear a song like we ain't got nothing yet, the blues, magoos or somebody, and you go, oh God, I remember that girl that dumped me the cheerleader. I don't like that song anymore. It's difficult to listen to a song even though you love the song, but the way it mentally takes you back to a time which is either wonderful to relive or hell on earth to relive, right, I?
Speaker 1:found it, even though I, kind of you know, I don't champion all the different arguments of well, this particular format was superior and is the only one to listen to. But I will say that it's even more so when you listen to a record that you grew up with, as opposed to just listening to a digital file on your phone or something like that yeah you put that record on. It's like a visceral transformation back to the day.
Speaker 2:Oh, I can't tell you how much I recently moved, after 23 years.
Speaker 2:So I'm still in the process of making a shrine to myself in my little studio, you know all that and uh, and so I finally got my turntable hooked up last week and I just went over and I didn't blindfold myself, but I just grabbed a Beatle album and it was yesterday. What was it? The one that had the Butcher cover on Beatle 6. Okay, today, and I just put it on and it still sounded incredible. Yeah, it just did. And okay, there's a few little pops and hisses and devil sounds coming out of it, but you can't beat it.
Speaker 2:So I'm glad I saved all my records. Uh, it's. I want to have a listening night some night to get all the different eras, like the, like 66, 7 and 8, like, uh, the, the so-called psychedelic era, yes, and a bunch of those, and I don't. I guess they'd withstand the test of time. Sometimes they don't. You know sometimes something you liked back. Then you go, oh gosh, well, I mean, we come in and out of phases of music and life that you know, but it's fun to hear a song that you haven't heard in a long time and go, oh, that's where I learned that lick right, totally or I will put on an album and go oh wait a minute, that's dickie betts.
Speaker 2:I thought I did that really. I mean that has happened before, absolutely absolutely well it's.
Speaker 1:Also it's interesting to listen to some records that you used to think were like the epitome of flawlessness and now you listen back to it and you're like, oh no, no, I can hear this, that and the next thing. But that's even more encouraging to just say, yeah, just leave that shit in, because that's what makes it glorious yeah, like, uh, uh, what's the squeaky kick drum?
Speaker 2:on uh, sometimes I just don't understand how could they could let that go by, right, but still we're talking about it right now. So maybe they said here's a marketing approach, let's have a squeaky kick drum pedal Right, and people be talking about it 50 years from now.
Speaker 1:Well, I like another Zeppelin classic clam is on the first record and uh, when they're doing, uh, I can't quit you baby and he goes to that chord change and he goes like a little bit too early or whatever, oh yeah yeah and he goes yeah, we'll just keep that in which I thought awesome yeah, and the flatness of some vocals, like I'm not one to talk, but you know, like, oh gosh, get your shoulder up there right yeah, but yeah different times by god.
Speaker 2:Different times and to think that it would be fun to try to make a record now with a four-track machine and hardly any overdubs and still have it as warm and big fat sounding as well those early Zeppelin or the Beatles, all that stuff. How in the world did they do that? Now we have a pedal that will simulate anything, right, but I do like pedals. I'm not going to knock the pedal.
Speaker 1:They are fun.
Speaker 2:They have their moments. It's like painting in black and white or painting in color. You know, I just, I tell the younger folk, just don't let them use you, you use them.
Speaker 1:I like to say I like using pedals and I like not using pedals.
Speaker 2:I do like to say if I had one more pedal, I'd really be good. Just one more.
Speaker 1:Come on. Well, it's amazing the pile of pedals I have. I'm sure you're the same, oh my.
Speaker 2:God, once again in this move I found boxes of pedals that I used throughout the 70s that now I go and reverb like an electric mistress. Right, oh, that's $ thousand dollars. Yeah, really, but I like it. Yeah, it's crazy stuff the police used. And uh, james honeyman scott from the pretenders, oh, yeah, oh man, I was a big pretenders fan and he played great parts.
Speaker 1:Those tunes were great yeah.
Speaker 2:He was great. He dated a girl from Austin, so we were buddies, oh no kidding. Yeah, Tragic, tragic. That he, you know, left us so soon makes you wonder what he'd be doing now. But he was quite the character and no holes barred for that guy. But what a two in one. One or two records I don't know how many he did with the pretenders, maybe just that one I think it was, I think maybe two?
Speaker 2:okay, I hope so, but to establish a, a tonality and a style that we can still allude to. To now. You know, it's incredible. If only I could leave that kind of uh something behind where they go. Oh, that's that VWS smashed under a rug bug, under a rug tone.
Speaker 1:Well, you know what? We're still alive and kicking, and that's the important thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're doing what we love to do. I always say if I would've got into this for the money, I would have quit a long time ago. Well, there's that. But you know, once it's in you, it's like it's heavier than any drug on earth. I mean, the music bug that's. Uh.
Speaker 2:One thing that bothers me, or that I've had to think about, is why am I still doing it at 73 years old? And it's because I don't know how to do anything else for one thing, and I love it. But I wonder about guys over the years that we were on the verge of something good happening, and like when I signed with ZZ Top Company and we toured relentlessly, and, and then we got a deal with Mercury and then that fell through. Well, I mean, no, we did tour all over the place with it and sold, oh, probably 800 albums. No, I don't know, it was in the thousands, which I'm very proud of, sure. But the guys that just finally quit, now, it's okay if they quit us, the thousands, which I'm very proud of, sure. But the guys that just finally quit, now, it's okay if they quit us, the band, but then they just quit playing, totally, yeah, and I don't get it.
Speaker 1:I don't get it either.
Speaker 2:My little thing is you get into this for fun when you're young or I don't know. You start for fun, then it becomes an obsession, right, and then it becomes a business. And when business goes south, then you start reevaluating. But I tell these guys or just thought, maybe I didn't say it, but God, why don't you, can't you just still have fun with it? It's cathartic, it's, it's therapy, it's right, and sure it's tough if you're trying to make a living doing it. But God, just remember why you started this and embrace that, embrace the talent you've got and, do you know, have fun, go go ahead and work at Chick-fil-A, but, um, which might not be a bad idea.
Speaker 1:The spicy chicken sandwich is a delight. I'm just going to.
Speaker 2:And you don't have to work on Sundays. Well, there you go, but anyway, I hope you get my point about. You know why we're there's. I don't know if you can put a tag on it of why we do this, but I think I'm right about you start out for fun and it becomes an obsession and a business, and then you got to start thinking about it instead of just having fun with it. So I'm trying to, I guess, to sum it up, I'm trying to have fun again, and for the last few years, and um and and enjoy it.
Speaker 1:It's. You know, it's an interesting thing. I was having lunch with a buddy of mine yesterday and, um, and we were conversing about, um, just kind of that thing of musicians and different motivations and why someone quits and why someone does whatever, and and uh, I think everyone of course has their different motivations. I mean, I've always been perplexed by folks who, um, are constantly, um, you know, chasing whatever the contemporary thing is, whether it's the current cover flavor, whatever the thing may be there. They're constantly morphing to try to be on the cutting edge of hip and happening and so on and so forth. Yeah, um, and really having no musical identity other than I'm going to do what it takes to be popular, uh, which is which is fine and dandy. For me, it's always been what's the least I can. Going to do what it takes to be popular, which is fine and dandy. For me, it's always been what's the least I can do to conform.
Speaker 2:How can I go about making the least amount of money in this business? Well, I've always said my lack of direction is my direction, which meaning to me is kind of a kiss of death, for if you're going to be and what, the term I just really hate is the music industry. I hate that. But anyway, my lack of direction is my direction, meaning, ok, why can't you play a blues shuffle and then go into something a little more cosmic and the same, why can't you stretch out? Uh, case in point, the Beatles could get away with that, you know, rubber soul being mostly acoustic, and they proved. But, uh, I'm not the Beatles, so but I do like, like all my records have like an instrumental, then they'll have a bluesy thing Sometimes. I wish I could be Pigeonhole saying you're a blues band or a blues. I never wanted to be a blues band, but a blues rock band for sure. Right, embrace that. But I had a. Did you ever go to meet him? And and can?
Speaker 2:It's the big international music festival where, uh, all the publishers are m-i-d-e-m. I don't know. Anyway, the uh, lone wolf publishing company, bill ham, sent me there one year and so so I had this CD, the first CD I'd done and it was a picture of me on the cover holding a Dobro and I thought it was kind of arty looking, you know, and just had a kind of a feel to it. And this guy that ran a record company in Germany said, well, what are you? An acoustic player? I said, well, not really. I mean, I do this and this and this and this and this, right? But he said, well, this is looking like you're a, you just play dobro and that's all. So I learned something from that. You know like, just don't even put a picture of me on the damn cover, That'll help. A lot.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, I know what you're saying. I mean that'll help a lot. Well, yeah, I know what you're saying. I mean it's like we think that people do a modicum of homework and they really don't. So you gotta, you gotta, spoon feed exactly what you want. And uh, and I've known that for a long time and I just, I still just refuse to do it.
Speaker 1:It's like what else the least I can do, and that's not. That's not a what I'm saying. Of course I'm not being lazy, I mean. I mean I, the desire to, um, you know, do the lowest hanging fruit at all times is just something that I'm like. Well, that's not my job description. There's other people that can do that. You know, I'm yeah, I'm to follow my thing. I mean, just like when my I had this band, you, which is still my main touring ensemble, with my son and with Toby Marshall, called it Cock Marshall Trio.
Speaker 1:But then we were realizing people weren't making the connection that it was me. So now we have to say we have to say it's Greg Cock and Cock Marshall Trio, and that's not an ego thing from my point of view, it's trio, and that's not an ego thing from my point of view. It's like, oh, otherwise people don't know where the fuck it is. You know exactly. And then, and then of course you got people who and then the whole problem with you know something like spotify when they segregate everything by what title it is on the cover of the record. So I had to completely go through my whole back catalog because I had, you know, greg caulk and the toneone Controls Greg Cock Band, greg Cock and Other Bad Men.
Speaker 2:Greg, you know all these different things.
Speaker 1:And they were all segregated into these sub things. So then I had to have my wife do the artwork again on all the different records and just say Greg Cock. And we still had two records out as Cock Marshall Trio. But now we just release them under my name so that people can find them. Well, that's a smart thing to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so hard when you think you know a path to follow. I have watched a couple of bands follow the trends and be incredibly successful One, our friend ZZ Top.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You know, billy and I used to go to bars and in the day well, I don't wear a watch, but he still does and we would sit and time the band's song for 15 seconds, then multiply it by four and see what the beats per minute were Right. And at that time he was studying, along with an engineer friend of him, his Lyndon Hudson like what songs out there right now that are hits, what is that beats per minute? And one of the prime examples was the Stones doing Miss you, right, you know that disco beat, that kind of four on the floor thing. But Billy did write Sharp Dressed man Legs around 120, 130. I forgot what the BPM is Right. So that to me is still being true to what you do, sure, but just kind of trying to keep up with the times, right Rhythmically, I mean that's all.
Speaker 1:It was Right, exactly.
Speaker 2:So I'm all for that, and it's fun just to put on a drum machine and go, because it won't argue with you like your band. It also won't stop when you. You got to keep up with it, but it's. It's a fun exercise for me to try to just get a beat going and go. Okay, play something, play something. You know, as people often yell out at me at clubs.
Speaker 1:Well, you know you were mentioning your kind of frustration with, you know, pigeonholing, as far as you know what's blues, what's not blues. And let's just touch on that for a minute, because that's always been a fascinating thing for me is that, you know, I've always, you know the blues is at the heart of what I've always done. I've always, you know, played side at the heart of what I've always done. I've always, you know, played side gigs with blues guys and but I've always added, you know, my own sense of whatever to it. And when we've had, like the first band I had where we were really doing my own stuff you know it was known as a blues band but it was more like kind of a little feat approach to it. Where it was, it had funk elements and some jazz elements and other things that were going on because I thought, well, that's kind of the point, isn't it?
Speaker 1:I mean, it's you got to kind of mix it up and do some some different things, yeah, but it would always incur the ire of the more traditional blues enthusiast and then you know, god, and then you know if you're at a blues festival and then you always have that person yelling out play the real blues or something like that, and that just sends me I'll just go you wouldn't know the real blues if it hit you in the face.
Speaker 1:But I, but then I, but I don't take it personal anymore. I'm just like okay, they, what they process, as what the blues is is a very specific uh, approach 12 bar. You know what I mean. And in either a shuffle, slow blues, rumba, you know what I mean there's very, there's a, there's a very and plus, a lot of it is. They only know it because it's dressed appropriately.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean, but that's that's not to say, but at the same time I I do have a big, I do have a warm and fuzzy for people that function in that traditional blues environment, that write new, fresh material but keep it more traditional but are also open-minded.
Speaker 2:They're not dicks about it, you know what I mean, right, right, well, you should have lived in Austin in 76 or so. Let's see, it was after Tommy Shannon you know who was later with Stevie Vaughn had just got fired from Johnny Winter and done Woodstock Albert Hall. We were forming a new band. Some guy here in town said call yourself fools. So we did so. Tommy joined the band and I remember saying to the drummer do we want a 30-year-old guy in our band? Ooh God, that's old, laughing at it, since I just turned 73 last week. But so here comes Tommy Shannon, who had done all this stuff, and we, we did bluesy stuff, but mainly it was a power Texas power trio with elements of the blues, because how could it not be?
Speaker 2:The blues is the foundation for everything in the world. You think Led Zeppelin, jimmy hendrix, pure blues, no, but, but boy, everything they did was the cornerstone, right, the blocks was that. And I've I've used that analogy as a teacher for many years, when a little heavy metal brat would come in and and I'd say say well, let, let's, let me show you. Do you know what a one, four, five is? Yeah, it's the number one, the number four. Whether you like this or not, you, you need to have a understanding of it, because all your shredders out there that you love so much, they did this first right. They understood the building block of the blues and then you just take that foundation and put whatever the hell you want on top of it and it's still got the power and the feel of the blues. I remember Stevie getting railed for doing Jimi Hendrix stuff Like that's not blues. Well, red House, come on.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So I don't know, it gets into that semantics thing Like oh, that's not blues, you're not wearing a stingy brim and a velvet suit. You know God, I don't know. But in the 70s, mid-70s, in in austin, I'm like you. I say that we have survived all the fads and we're still doing what we love to do right, and I'm proud of that. Like in the early 70s, we it was, uh, the great cowboy country, cosmic cowboy scare. We called it because we were a three-piece hard rock band. And then came disco and went, oh my God. And then came punk and that, oh, you don't have to know how to play at all, I'm going to stop practicing my scale. And and then what happened after a new Wave and all that stuff? Right, for better or for worse. I'm still standing and sometimes laying down more, but I really do think we survived all the fads and kept I don't want to say kept true to ourselves, because that sounds kind of pretentious because I've never had a hit. So but anyway, just.
Speaker 2:And then the blues scene. There were the T-Birds, right, and then we were band of the year with Tommy Shannon in 76. I can't believe that. And then after that we won all these awards, you know best, blah, blah, blah. But we were not that cool because there were clicks and I don't know in your towns growing up oh, absolutely. But my God, if you weren't, you know. The Antones crowd, ooh, that's serious blues, you know, right, or what they call it, considered right. And then there was the punk crowd, which one time Kyle Brock and I put together a band called the lips it's when he was playing with Eric Johnson and we went over to Raul's and played a set of just blistering sloppy fun, non hard, non Texas blues rock. And right, I'm surprised we didn't get, you know, beat up in the parking lot or something, but but it was fun, just going, look, we can do this.
Speaker 2:But just these labels that people put on each other, it's in the end it's just music, but right, but yeah, and then after that the austin chronicle would have awards every year and we were in the hall of fame and all this stuff and they had these categories, like you were talking about with your name, you know, like uh or me, with that picture of me holding an acoustic guitar. Well, so I anyway, we were best hard rock band. Then we were best. Then they changed a uh a category to best hard rock, slash, heavy metal. And so we won. We would try to get gigs out of town or somewhere and they go oh, we don't do heavy metal at our club. Right, I'd have to start backpedaling, and I'm sure my boys. Well, we're not really heavy metal. I mean, you know what do you do? They stick a label on you and it's there.
Speaker 1:We interrupt this regularly scheduled gristle infested conversation to give a special shout out to our friends at Fishman Transducers, makers of the Greg Koch signature Fluence Gristle Tone pickup set Can you dig that?
Speaker 1:And our friends at Wildwood Guitars of Louisville, colorado, bringing the heat in the shadow of the Rocky Mountains. That's what's nice when you get to the point where you you know, and that's one of the things that I love about what the Internet has done. I mean, there's many different things that we could talk about the pros and the cons of you know the world after you know the Internet and social media and so on and so forth. The world after you know the internet and social media and so on and so forth. But you can find your crowd and find people that want to come hear you do your thing. And that's one thing that we've really noticed since hitting the road a lot with this trio in the States. Quite a bit because I know I've always done Europe and I know you have as well because there just seemed to be a little bit more of kind of an infrastructure for touring over there doing what we do and a little bit more tolerance for the blurred lines of idioms and so on and so forth.
Speaker 1:But what I've noticed now is they, you know it doesn't matter what we play, people are coming to see us. We catered to excellent, you know they. You know they're only coming to see us where it's not like, oh look, there's a band tonight. You know we play clubs, or they're only coming to see us and we do our thing and no one ever goes. Yeah well, it's really not blues, or you know. Whatever the case may be, we do have people occasionally that will come up to the table and, as a result, I'm doing a compilation thing that's more of a blues thing of my past stuff. People go hey, you know of your stuff what's the most bluesy? Yeah, that I can take. You know what I mean, that I can take you know what I mean, so uh, but it's.
Speaker 1:it's just so nice now to go out and go out and do the thing and not have to deal, uh, with that whole schmageg and you know, when I look at our schedule this summer, we're only doing like a couple of festival type of things.
Speaker 1:But you know we'll do clubs and people will come out and see us and we'll do our thing and it's, in a way, it's just incredibly liberating. Oh, thank god we got people who come and see us do our thing and they don't crap, they don't give a shit about what it's not you know what it's not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking of, uh, I had a label in France interested for me doing a just a, an album with all just hard blues rock stuff, nothing pretty kind of like your bluesy thing you're talking about, and I'm going to try to do that. I don't want to. I can't call it a greatest hits because of the obvious reason.
Speaker 2:The hits of yesterday and never as I like to say but just something because, like I alluded to earlier, uh, the there'll be a. The lack of direction is direction. There'll be one kind of song and then another one and then and then a heavy one and a hard one. And I thought, well, uh, did you ever know Richard Mullen? He was, uh, stevie's engineer on the first couple of records and Eric Johnson's engineer, and just an incredible. He did some records with me and he passed away a few years ago, but he was a remarkable studio engineer and we were commiserating over this career thing one night and I said, well, I got all these different kinds of songs. He said, but wait a minute, the commonality, the thread that holds it all together, is your guitar playing. No matter what kind of song it is, it's still you right. And he was under the hope not a false impression that I had a sound to him that was identifiable to a point and and I thought, well, that's a nice way to put it that it does tie in together. But wow, another thing this reminds me of is I was never a big ACDC fan and before they were really big, they played the opera house here in Austin.
Speaker 2:That's many years ago, in the 70s, and I was with one of the biggest promoters in the world, louis Messina, who now has Taylor Swift and George Strait and that's all he does. And I said, man, how come these guys are so big and getting bigger and bigger? Now they're, you know, we all know how big they are. He said, well, from the first note to the last, you know what they do, right, no doubt. And I really thought, wow, I commend them for that. But I kind of personally like to have a little you know, right, vary it up, mix it up. But he had a point with them and it's sure, true, you know that's what they do you're not going to hear a?
Speaker 1:I don't know if they've done any love ballads, but I'm not sure. Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think so, let me ask you this when did you first hook up with? Uh, the billy gibbons, bill ham camp and?
Speaker 2:how did?
Speaker 2:that all come to it was 74 and it was hot and ZZ. Before I knew them I was a huge fan and they played the famous romping stomping Texas barbecue. Oh, I remember that, yeah, I remember. And Bad Company, nobody had really heard of them. And Jimmy Page came out and Joe Cocker threw up on stage and it was just a fun company. Nobody had really heard of them. And Jimmy Page came out and Joe Cocker threw up on stage and it was just a fun fest.
Speaker 2:But I was there by myself and we had a gig that night at Mother Earth with, I guess, yeah, with Tommy Shannon for sure. So I went and it was just miserable. You couldn't move your arms and you couldn't, there was no water and it was horrible. So I went and about a month later I got this phone call saying would you hold for Bill Hamm? And I almost hung up because I, I guess I knew Bill Hamm was the manager. Then, yeah, I did. But he called and said are you that that kid that I saw at Mother Earth the other night? Yeah, I think so. So anyway, we signed a deal with him and we hit the road very seriously.
Speaker 2:You know good gigs and bad gigs, but a lot of them were stadium. I mean, I call it the janitorial opening act. You know, for big people, you know 30 minutes, no front lights, no sound check, do it. But it sure teaches you how to get on a big stage and not fall down, sure. So it was a great learning experience and back then I guess I'd do it again if it was more organized. But okay, you're playing in Uterus, new York tonight with. Okay, you're playing in uterus, new York tonight with Bachman Turner, overweight or Overdrive Right, and at a hockey stadium, a hockey arena. You know those little war memorial things they have in the east. You know war memorial stadium.
Speaker 2:So I'd say, okay, jump in the truck, let's drive 2,000 miles or 1,500 miles. We wouldn't think twice about it, we wouldn't even ask how much money we're getting, we'd just go Right and we had a big blue box van. It wasn't that big. There was a driver passenger, we had a couch behind that and then all our gear and Tommy had two SV. No, uh, acoustic, remember the acoustic so popular at the time. He had two and then I had four Marshall cabinets and I think we had some old ZZ top road cases. So it was. But anyway, we slept on that. Oh yeah, and I can't imagine what would have happened if the driver had to break really hard. Right, you would have been flung, oh my God. And I had uh, yeah, yeah, it's a fond memory, but I know it was hard as hell, but we didn't think about it, we just did it. And uh, looking back I can laugh and go oh, remember that time we got searched at niagara falls and wasn't that funny? No, it really wasn't. But you know now.
Speaker 2:Anyway, I I love touring europe because it's it's more organized and people really, really seem to care more. I don't know what it is for for my. My experience had some lovely gigs I was so honored to play with. Uh, I went to see ZZ at the Montreux Jazz Festival about four years ago and, having lunch in Geneva and Billy said, hey, I want you to join us tonight. I said, uh, well, I kind of wanted to go see a mountain or something. Maybe I can find time to join you. You mean, play Montreux Jazz Festival, he, jazz festival. He said, yeah, uh, it turned out the first time they had mike flanagan on keyboards and and I just happened to be there, so we went shopping. He said you got to wear a hat. Okay, go buy a damn hat and a coat. He likes a jacket, that I have, but I didn't bring it with me. So we went shopping in geneva but uh, I start shaking just thinking about how nervous I was. Montreux Jazz Festival, and they're not a jazz band. So here we are, back to that Right exactly.
Speaker 2:And so we did a sound check and we played a Jimmy Smith song Kiko I forgot the name of the song and I know and then a blue song that Dusty sang, a Freddie King song I love the woman. And they put an X on the stage where I'm supposed to come out. And and Billy, wouldn't you know, I like to have my guitar on backstage, kind of just to think I can hold it for one day. Nope, guitar's got to be on stage, come out. I mean he have my guitar on backstage, kind of just to think I can hold it for one night. To go out, nope, guitar's got to be on stage, come out. I mean he, he is the beast at at programming and attention to detail. I mean you can just see it in there, everything they do right. And uh, so we played and I ended up being on this, the dvd live at mont Top. It was just mind-blowing to me and first time they ever used outside musicians on stage. And then I opened for them in Sierra. Have you done the Sierra Blues Festival?
Speaker 2:No I have not Right down the road. I've done it a couple of times. So I opened. No, they closed for me. What am I talking about? Uh, I didn't open for them.
Speaker 2:No, you know, there are a lot of bands on the bill and so billy got me up to play jailhouse rock. And why so important for me, uh, is that dusty sang it and, uh, such a big deal. And then right after that they were doing an album and he called and said do you remember the little song we were goofing around with at your house in the 70s called Drive-By Lover? I went, yeah, and a few years before I'd taken the cassettes and made little vignettes of us just fooling around.
Speaker 2:The guitars weren't even plugged in, they were electric. You could hear some girl in the background going Billy, get me a beer. And then, 30 years later almost, I send him these little excerpts and he's working with Rick Rubin. I don't know how much Rick Rubin was really involved in it, but a few hours later I hear Dusty Hill sing and my lyrics Drive by Lover. And they put it on their La Futura album, which is such an honor for me, yeah, yeah. But it brings me to another lament of the business that it hit at the time that people are no longer buying physical product, right, you know, and I made a little money off of it, but it wouldn't have been like if it was on eliminator in 1983.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you would have been set that ceiling fan you can kind of see up there would be my helicopter Instead of a ceiling fan, but it's still. You know, I've always wanted to be a writer and get a cut on some album and it's just so weird how our business has changed so dramatically, so drastically and and uh man it is crazy.
Speaker 1:I mean, I was thinking about this the other day, about, you know, I've done I'm sure I don't know how many over 20 releases, right, that's online. You know, I think most of them are up on all the different streaming services and now it's, you know it's a decent ish amount of money that comes in, but it's not, you know, it's just ancillary, it's not. You know, it's not salary money. And then I've got, you know, 20, some books and DVDs and all that other kind of stuff, not to mention all this other digital stuff that I did for true fire, so on and so forth, and um, and those have all treated me well over the years. But you know, you, uh, you realize that to your point. You know the business changes. Now it's like, well, how many guys are doing free content online now? I mean, I do a bit of it as well. But the point is, is that that devalues all of that other shit Right In a rather significant way. And I get it. I know I'm not going to, you know, whine about it because it is what it is. But you know it's one of those things where you know you, you do things not all the time with the idea of. Well, I do enough of this stuff and hopefully I can, you know, at some point slow down a little bit, because I'll have all this ancillary income and you realize things just change on a dime and all that stuff could be made not irrelevant but certainly not as vibrant, shall we say, of a income stream, and so you always just kind of got to keep on your toes. But to your point earlier about why we keep doing it, it's just like you know, someone was mentioning to me the other day like, uh, you know, we're going on this tour and we're actually we're gonna be down by you again. We're gonna be down, uh, I think we're gonna be this tour. Actually we're going to be down by you again. We're going to be down at I think we're going to be at the Saxon on the 17th or 18th of July, something like that. No, of August, of August, I'm sorry, okay, but we've got a big trip coming up. We're going out to California and going up the West Coast and then driving back.
Speaker 1:People go man out. I get to drive with my son and a buddy and we play all of my music. We travel and stop wherever we want to stop. We go to gigs where the only reason people are coming there is to come see us. We play our music. At the end I sell the merch, I get to hang with all the different folks, so on and so forth.
Speaker 1:We started eight o'clock, you know we're done and packing up. You know, two and a half hours later, and uh, and then the next day you repeat, you see beautiful sites. You stop wherever you want to stop. Why, why would I stop doing this?
Speaker 1:You know, uh, but that whole thing of I could never see retired, cause I would. Even if I, even if I was to the point where, okay, well, I'm not going to travel anymore, for whatever reason, I would still play around town, I would still do the thing because I just love it. So, unless it gets to the point, you know, as, as we've been talking about all these massive changes, you know, if it gets to the point where it's like live music just doesn't exist anymore, I, I, I kind of find that hard to believe that there won't be at least some, you know connection to live performance in some way shape or form, or especially people who have done it, as long as we haven't have a certain affinity for being able to get in front of people and make them respond to something you'd like to know we can.
Speaker 2:Uh, I've been thinking about doing the Van Wilkes tribute band, where it's me, you know, cause that's what's killing me, all these tribute bands and they're, they're taking over, yeah.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:Austin, my God, I guess you know it's fun for people, but I don't know. So I hit on the idea of let's have the VW Tribute Band Right. There you go and they'll go. Man, they sound just like them, right they sound just like them.
Speaker 1:Well, isn't that an interesting thing? Like when we were growing up you'd get the vinyl and you'd hear the song of whatever group it was, and then you couldn't wait to hear the live version because you knew they were a trio, so there's no way, or a four piece, whatever the case may be. You're like well, there's no way they can duplicate that live. I wonder how they're going to do it. And then the live version became a whole nother artistic thing and it changed from night to night. And I just noticed what's so odd is is that so many of those bands whose live versions you couldn't wait to hear now are like having or whatever remains of them.
Speaker 2:You know, sometimes I'll say featuring the original sound man you know, yeah exactly.
Speaker 1:It'll have to play with ancillary tracks and do everything they possibly can to sound as much like the initial record so that people can go out and relive their instead of like well, this song is a vehicle for improvisation and for interpretation. It's like that is really being squished by the fact that people want to hear things exactly as they were, which I find I personally find repugnant. But people dig it, that's on them.
Speaker 2:But uh, yeah, I want to hear something different every time it's played right there's something to be said about fans that you know. I always thought that we play for the people that don't play. You know like it's corny sounding, but an artist paints for people that don't paint. Musicians play for people that don't paint. Musicians play for people that don't play because those other musicians are not going to buy our supper.
Speaker 1:Well, that's a fact.
Speaker 2:And so we got to get to the people that hopefully they're just true music lovers and enjoy it. And I've always thought and I've had a couple of people that that have had a lot of success say, those people want to hear that song like they heard it on the record, right, you know. So that's why billy's doing the, the, you know, synth, synth on legs, and and I get that, I mean embellishing a little bit. I have no with the. Who did it for sure, right, joe Walsh. I remember opening for him and he had a TAC 3340 on stage which I thought was kind of cool. He hit the button Right and there he goes. Yeah, I have no problem with that now, just lip syncing. Yeah, right, have you started to use a bunch of ancillary dancers on stage yet?
Speaker 1:No, but that needs to happen. That needs to happen. You know anything to help the career. Well, there you go and nothing better than a good bunch of dance moves. I'm a big fan of Dua Lipa, see, and I like her dance maneuvering. I just heard that name, the other day, day and I'm still sorting through what it is. Oh, you gotta, you gotta go check out old dua. She is a, she is quite the uh, uh performer. I'm gonna use the word performer yeah, okay uh, but she is.
Speaker 1:Uh, she's alian, but grew up in England. I like her already, and I'm going to say that she is a rather, shall we say, stunning visage. I'm going to throw that out there.
Speaker 2:Well, let's cut this short, then I'm going to go. Look, you know, I know we have a mutual friend in Eric Johnson. Yes, I'd be remiss if I didn't say how proud I am to have jammed with him from the early mid-70s to I don't know. He's on a cut of mine called Vanitized yes. And then one afternoon I was doing the Arm armadillo. That night this has to be 70 something and we, we both loved beck, of course, I mean you done, and uh, we were doing just started fooling around. Uh, what beck called green sleeves, which is right, what child is this?
Speaker 2:and eric said, oh, you know, that I said, well, I kind of ripped off beck's version, so we ended up playing it at armadillo that night. And then, uh, then it was put on. We did an official recording, which I don't know if it's even available anymore, on an austin. It's called austin christmas collection. It's all like willie, nelson, jerry, jeff, all these people and eric and I were doing what child is this? And I listened to it from time to time and go, wow, what an honor, yeah, yeah, to have gotten to play with him. But he's pretty much stuck to his roots. You know, getting back to Don't Change. I know he's times of frustration, like we all have, but man, you know he's still doing it. You got to keep on keeping on.
Speaker 1:Now, did you, uh, did you hang with Stevie Ray a bit when, back in the day, were you familiar with him?
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, I mean, we never jammed together, but, uh, we did cross paths, uh, late at night a couple of times. Cross paths late at night, a couple of times In fact. I had, let's see, this was 83 or so or four. I'd done about 15 states with Hart in 1980 and they took me out to Renton, washington, where Hendricks is buried. At the time it was just a little tombstone about the size of a oh, a little bigger than a laptop, and I've put one foot on one side, one on the other, and took a picture and I've always kept it in my wallet Right.
Speaker 2:And one night, uh and it was really night, um, it was Tommy, stevie and I at a friend's house and I pulled that picture out and he literally grabbed. He never saw Hendrix. I was lucky at my age to have seen him four times and as a 16-year-old you can imagine what that did. What is this? And Stevie just grabbed that picture out of my hand and just stared at it and got kind of emotional. I do recall, you know I said Stevie, may, I have that back now, but it just it really affected him. And now I hear there's a giant monument. Yeah, they've changed it quite a bit. Yeah, now I hear there's a giant monument and statue. Yeah, they've changed it quite a bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you know, I've always thought that, you know, we could see him. I remember hearing him the first time that he sang at let's see After Hours Bar on Congress, when he was still with Lou Anne. I went wow, he's singing. But you know, when you live in the same town as somebody of that caliber and you see him all the time, it's like if you lived in Liverpool and saw the Beatles every day. Yeah, they're great man. But I mean, you almost have to distance yourself or not know the person to realize, wow, that guy's really good instead of just a buddy, you know and I'm not saying, you and I were great friends now, but we certainly knew each other and uh well, let's, let's get, let's get back to the four times.
Speaker 1:You saw Hendricks as well, if you don't mind. So where did you?
Speaker 2:see him at. Okay, living in Brownwood, texas, I skipped the schoollahoma where the sun shines something on the plane and we, my parents, let me go and and the cool thing about it and I remember it so vividly was there was the soft machine, but the first band was called the chessman. This is in dallas, first time hendrix came through. I've got some pictures of it. So it was 68 and and the picture with my little Brownie Instamatic camera it's mostly the back of people's heads in front of me and Hendrix was about that big on stage.
Speaker 2:But the opening act was the chessman who I found out years later was Jimmy Vaughn and Doyle Bramhall. And I remember I remember double bass drums and I remember him singing Doyle Bramhall. And I remember I remember double bass drums and I remember him singing Doyle Bramhall senior of course. Right, I remember him singing Georgia on my mind and I'll never forget that. So when I got to, got to be friends with Doyle and Jimmy and ask about that, he said oh yeah, that was our big song at the time. Just, I think that's the night that Jimmy says Hendrix gave him a wawa or something or right.
Speaker 2:And then I never got to see him with the moving sidewalks opening, which I wish I would have because billy tells these great stories in fort worth of. Uh, jimmy asking billy to come into his room and he's laying on the bed with a portable battery powered, some kind of turntable. But he's laying on the bed with his afro hanging off, holding his guitar and he said well, you know that foxy lady thing. What do you do? He said he showed him at the 11th fret and you put one string over the other, said but the main thing was you got to wiggle it.
Speaker 1:You got to wiggle it, you would have told me you got to wiggle it, you got to wiggle it.
Speaker 2:You would have told me you got to wiggle it. I just love that. So incredible. I've got this picture that Billy gave me, which I've seen on the internet now, of the moving sidewalks and Hendrix backstage.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've seen that one yeah.
Speaker 2:And all those little guys look.
Speaker 2:Hendrix looks like he's from another planet which he was right, he was but he wasn't that big of a guy but in this picture he looks huge, right fruit crate or something I don't know, but just incredible. Uh, in 68 or 67 to 8, brownwood Texas had these dances and they hired some band called the Moving Sidewalks and by that time we changed from the Midnight Riders to Life with a Y, l-y-f-e, because of Hendrick, you know, because of the psychedelic era, right. And so we opened for him and it all I remember was Billy was spinning that flying V around. Even back then Still don't know how they did that because I don't think he had a wireless back then. So I don't know, I'd get all tangled up in the cord and fall down. But I remember we opened for him at the Browntowner Hotel and a girl kind of made me mad that night and I hit the window and put my hand through the window. Blood spurted everywhere. I'm fine, I'm fine, told my daddy, it was the strobe lights that caused it.
Speaker 2:But Billy remembers the gig and so does Tom Moore, the keyboard. He said, yeah, we were going to Brownwood and throwing out firecrackers out of the car. You know, you just remember crazy things, sure, and uh, I'd lived there. I graduated from high school there in 69. And and, uh, and I'd never noticed this one thing there's a little suburb called early and the state sign says entering brownwood, leaving early, and I've never noticed that until gibbons brought that up to me 25 years later. He said isn't that funny? That sign said I don't know what you're talking about, but you see things different when you're on the road. As you certainly know yourself, you owe the road blog yes, yes indeed.
Speaker 1:Well, listen, my friend, it's been an absolute pleasure shooting the breeze with you. I hope we get to cross paths again down when I'm in down in your neck of the woods. Actually, I think we're going to be in austin for a couple days, just hanging out after we get done playing.
Speaker 2:Well, let's try to get together, and I'll definitely be the one in the audience saying play some real blues you're right, please do, because you know I react so well to that all right, my friend.
Speaker 1:Well, listen, you take care of yourself. Say hello to the gang down there. For me I sure will, and, uh, we'll hopefully see you very soon okay, uh, I got a question for you.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, yes, sir, uh, who's the agent that you use, that can, that keeps you on the road? So I've got a guy named Phillip Walker.
Speaker 1:Who, who? Who books us, and he was with other people too. He books a couple of other people, but originally I was signed by an Austin agency called true grit. He was with originally, and a guy by the name of Mike Krug and then a guy named Andrew Hall booked me for a while, but then we got passed off to a Phillip, and Phillip lives in Nashville Nashville now, and um, and that's called true. True, the original one was called true grip, but now it's like, uh, I don't know what he calls it now. That's all right, I'm not trying to weasel in on your deal, that's all right, no problem. But you'll probably meet Mike Krug when he comes out to see us in Austin, because he lives down there. K-r-u-g. He actually books Warren Haynes now, as a matter of fact.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, oh wow. Well, I'd love to find some small agency booking. You know it's. I, I admire the way you get out there and do it and I I'd like to do it again if it was organized. You know, right, and like you say, you go to your gigs and they're coming to see you. Uh, I have to build that up again, but uh.
Speaker 1:I mean what I found is is that you know, I guess what was actually, we're still recording, but I think this is all good stuff for the pocket. Um, this is uh. You know, when I first was getting tours booked, you know I was of the mindset of, well, I gotta have guarantees and some of these, but I just can't go out for nothing. Yeah, that's the tough part. And and the agents like, listen, you've got enough of a following from your online thing, and so on and so forth. Always go with the door deal, because if you get some shitty little guarantee versus a better backend deal, with a shitty backend deal, you're better off with like getting most, you know, getting a ability where you could actually make the dough, and that has proved to be correct. So I mean, we will have like the marquee gig where it's a festival where you're making some really good bank or whatever the case may be. But a lot of the getting there and getting back from there are door deals. But man, it is.
Speaker 1:It has worked out because we know what our nut is, and every night it's like's like there's nights where you'll play at some club. It's like, oh, there's 40 people here, but I might sell $1,000 in merch you know what I mean. So it's just one of those things where it's just the three of us in one vehicle.
Speaker 2:We get two hotel rooms and so as a result of that, we come back for every one of these tours we're like we did it again. That for every one of these tours like we did it again. That is so good to hear, because usually I hear just the opposite and I'm kind of afraid to even try. But I would like to have somebody that could, that I've trusted, even in europe. Again, I don't have anybody there, but like I used to, like klaus or klaus is a great germany.
Speaker 1:klaus basically books us and that's it. He barely does it anymore. Yeah, but yeah, it's tough. You got to find someone that believes in it and we'll give you a chance and and uh, but yeah, it's just a matter of I just got to the point where I just literally said yes to everything. And what was nice is is that he he is a touring musician himself, so he understands the routing, so the routing always works good, and if it's even a little dicey, he'll be like hey, this one's kind of weird, do you want to do it? And then you know. So we're always in contact and and it's been great Mike, my crew guy this is.
Speaker 1:this is the Phillip Walker at this point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, I don't, I'm not going to try to call anybody, I just. I'm just curious how people do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's it. That's it in a nutshell.
Speaker 2:Well, I look forward to seeing you in August. I'll put it on my calendar.
Speaker 1:Likewise. Let's go out and get some food. We'll get Grissom and maybe EJ and Gary, chancellor Rasko.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, let's take Eric.
Speaker 1:And Roscoe.
Speaker 2:And for barbecue. Eric needs some barbecue. Yes, he does All right, my friend, you have a good one. I really appreciate it. I'm honored to chat with you, my pleasure man, same here.
Speaker 1:We'll see you soon. Okay, let me know if this airs. Oh, it will definitely air. Within, probably in about a month, it'll go up.
Speaker 2:They go up on.
Speaker 1:Thursdays Okay.
Speaker 2:Okay, bye, my friend.
Speaker 1:You got it. Really appreciate it. Likewise, take it easy. Thank you so much, folks, for tuning in. Special thank you to Wildwood Guitars of Louisville, colorado, and the mighty Fishman Transducers for making this podcast possible. If you enjoyed yourself, ladies and gentlemen, please subscribe and review so that people can get the word out that this is worth experiencing. Can you dig it? Thanks again. We'll see you soon or you'll hear me soon.
