Chewing the Gristle with Greg Koch
Art Menezes - From Fortaleza to Blues Stardom
What happens when a young Brazilian guitarist, inspired by ACDC, stumbles upon blues legend John Lee Hooker through a stroke of radio interference? Join us as Art Menezes takes us through his incredible musical journey, from the vibrant streets of Fortaleza to the bustling blues hubs of Los Angeles and Chicago. Art recounts his self-taught beginnings, pivotal career moments, and the cultural backdrop that shaped his unique sound. It's a story of passion and perseverance, guaranteed to resonate with any music aficionado.
Dedicated to helping musicians achieve the truest sound possible whenever they plug-in.
Wildwood Guitars
One of the world’s premier retailers of exceptional electric and acoustic guitars.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
What happens when a young Brazilian guitarist, inspired by ACDC, stumbles upon blues legend John Lee Hooker through a stroke of radio interference? Join us as Art Menezes takes us through his incredible musical journey, from the vibrant streets of Fortaleza to the bustling blues hubs of Los Angeles and Chicago. Art recounts his self-taught beginnings, pivotal career moments, and the cultural backdrop that shaped his unique sound. It's a story of passion and perseverance, guaranteed to resonate with any music aficionado.
Dedicated to helping musicians achieve the truest sound possible whenever they plug-in.
Wildwood Guitars
One of the world’s premier retailers of exceptional electric and acoustic guitars.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Lo and behold, ladies and gentlemen, season five of Chewing the Gristle is upon us. It's been a little while, folks, but it's going to be worth the wait. We're going to be featuring a lot of convivial conversations with various musical potentates, most of which you've heard of. Some are going to be some new discoveries. That's why I'm here to bring forth the chewable gristle matter to you via the information superhighway, brought to you, of course, by our friends at Wildwood Guitars in beautiful Louisville, colorado, and our friends at Fishman Transducers of beautiful Andover, massachusetts. Both I've had great longstanding relationships with, and continue to do so, and we're very grateful for their continued support in this endeavor of giving you the highest quality and chewable gristle possible. Now, without any further ado, folks, let's get down and dirty with some Chewing the Gristle, season 5.
Speaker 1:Buckle up. He astounds, he amazes, the mighty Art Menezes, ladies and gentlemen, blues guitar potentate From beautiful Brazil. We had a great chat. You know what we did? We chewed the damn gristle. Tune on in right now. Right now, ladies and gentlemen, we have convened once again around the Gristle Fire for a little episode of Chewing the Gristle. Today, beaming in from Los Angeles I believe you're in Los Angeles we have the mighty Art Menezes from, actually originally from Brazil, but living in LA for a while now, and just an extraordinary young blues guitar player, vocalist, songwriter, artist, if you will, and so great to chat with you today.
Speaker 2:How's it going out there, art? What's happening? I'm good, I'm good. Thanks for having me. Oh, my pleasure, appreciate it. Appreciate it. I've been a fan of your work for a while.
Speaker 1:I've been listening to your guitar since I was two in Brazil and I've been here in Los Angeles for eight years. Yes, yeah, so yeah, awesome.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me, my pleasure. So give us a right. She sings Brazilian music, brazilian popular music. And my big brother, he started to listen to ACDC when he was 10 years old, 10 years, 11. And I was three years, four years old. So when you have a big brother, you don't want to look at your parents like you want to, you're going to be like your big brother, right? So I said, you know, I'm not going to, I'm not really into the Brazilian music. Actually, after that, right after that, I was. But as a kid I was like, you know, I want to be like my brother. So I was listening to ACDC with him all the time. So, angus Young, he was my, my, my, my, my first guitar hero, right, okay, and I still admire him a lot.
Speaker 2:And fast forwarding, when I was 11 years old, I decided to play music because of a friend that was living in my building. He came with this method I written a piece of paper with numbers. If you have the number 10, 10 would be like first string, fret, number zero, right? So open string number 12, you know like, uh, first string, fret number two, and then with the melody, no rhythm, nothing. And there was a very famous brazilian popular music. So I I learned that I just grabbed that I played on his acoustic, just just like this, and I was, oh, this feels good. So, and then I, you know, I asked my mother to and my father they kind of like cheapening to buy me an acoustic guitar, a cheap one, and so I kept playing, like by ear. You know, I'm a self-taught musician, although after that I decided to learn music because I wanted to know what I was doing. I was curious and also that helped me a lot. But anyway, so I was one day practicing at home.
Speaker 2:At the time I had a Ryder guitar, an Epiphone SG. I didn't have an amp, it was like a friend's amp that was sitting in my place. But I used to live close to a radio station and we were getting interference from the radio all the time in all the devices at my place. So I was jamming with acdc records and then that music started coming from the amp and I was listening to that and I stopped the record that I was jamming with and I started jamming with what was coming from my speakers and it felt familiar and after that the the radio host. He said the phone number of the radio. I called hey, what is this? And at the time I think I was like 12 or 13 years old, and he said, no, this is a blue show. This isn't special about Johnny Hooker today. And I said, oh, cool. And then after that I started, like you know and after that it was blooms until today.
Speaker 2:So basically that's it.
Speaker 1:I love it. So what town in Brazil did you grow up in?
Speaker 2:Fortaleza. It's northeast of Brazil, okay.
Speaker 1:So is it a big city, kind of a rural thing?
Speaker 2:It is a big city. It's, I would say, the third or fourth biggest in Brazil. Yeah, it's near the ocean. Yeah, it's beautiful.
Speaker 1:And the weather's nice.
Speaker 2:The weather. I mean, I don't like summer, but it's summer every day.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because it's near the equator so we don't have like season in my hometown, so it's summer all the time, the equator, so we don't have like season in my hometown, so it's under all the time.
Speaker 1:When I was thinking, when you were talking about the, you know ACDC, I mean, I mean for the most part, I mean Angus Young is a blues guitar player, you know, I mean he plays, his whole approach is very much, you know, bluesy. So that that is not. Uh, that was probably a good segue into actual listening to the blues stuff. So what kind of were you a fan of, like all blues, or were you more fixated on certain types of blues people? Because you know, the reason why I say that is that there seems to be a lot of people who are like, are blues fanatics and they love the whole genre and they learn everything they can about all the different, you know obscure artists and so on and so forth. And then there's people that get drawn to certain blues people because of their phrasing and their singing and their songwriting and they just kind of, you know, have like a, I mean they kind of have an appreciation for everybody, but you know they're they're more honed in on certain artists. So I was wondering what your approach was.
Speaker 2:I think both you know it was phases. You know there was a time that I was with acoustic resonator slide, was learning everything like the delta, the roots and everything. You know there's the modern stuff traditional, the Chicago blues, electric, the West Coast, everything know.
Speaker 2:There's the modern stuff traditional, the chicago blues, electric, the west coast, everything right but basically after acdc, like I said, and it's very bluesy, you know, acdc, in my opinion it's a blues band with a rock drummer, right, because even the lyrics you know, like the, the form, everything. So after that there was stevie rayvon, right, uh, and from stevie I got obsessed with stevie. When I first saw the it was actually vhs that my brother brought at home with uh, the homo combo yeah, yeah, and I remember watching that.
Speaker 2:I would say I was like 13, 14 and and I cried when I watched it and it was very weird for me. I said, oh, there's something wrong with me, because I was a kid I 13, 14, and I cried when I watched it and it was very weird for me. I said, oh, there's something wrong with me, because I was a kid, I never cried because anything that wasn't related to physical pain, right, I mean no, no, no, no. I cried before, like missing my father or my mother because they were divorced and you know we lived separately and had to stay the summer vacations with my father, then back to my mother and you know that kind of stuff. But there was the first time that I cried with something related to art, to music, and I was like, wow, this is amazing. Then after that I was like, note by note, learning, note by note, stevie, note by note. I got obsessed with Stevie. And then, from Stevie, albert King. There was a time that I was like crazy about Albert King, and then BB and then Albert Collins. Those were like the big foundation.
Speaker 2:And then came Clapton Hendrix, you know, otis Rush, and then it started to go a little bit more modern. You know, of course I'm missing a lot of players. Sure, I get it, but Larry Cotton, robin Ford and then more modern guys like Matt Schofield you, matt Schofield and Josh Smith, kirk Fletcher those guys that was more recently I would say 10 years ago. I was listening to them a lot, but it's been maybe now six years that I don't listen to any guitar players anymore, unless it's music that has a guitar player Like. I really like listening to Doyle Doyle Brumhall. I think he's amazing Songwriter, singer, producer, guitar player. But the reason that I was listening to his music wasn't exactly because of his guitar playing. It was more about the whole thing, the whole thing, right. So yeah, basically that's what's been happening, and nowadays I don't listen to really blues or guitar oriented music anymore.
Speaker 1:Listen to everything else yeah, I hear you, I understand I mostly listen to old stuff. I mean, yeah, usually I find weird old uh bootlegs online and on, you know, on on youtube, but I just listen to those for the most part. But you know, every now, every now and again I'll I'll listen to new stuff, but anyway, uh, so how did you make the transition from being in Brazil to deciding to go to Los Angeles?
Speaker 2:So, first of all, I went to Chicago for the first time in 2006. So I went there for three months. I was already playing professionally in Brazil, like touring, especially in the northeast of Brazil, but I was going south too and I was making my name playing. Actually, in my hometown we had about at the time we had about seven blues bands. I was playing nine of them. I was the guitar player of all the blues bands. I was. I was playing nine of them. I was the guitar player of all the blues bands and uh, and also like playing Led Zeppelin, acdc cover bands or Jimi Hendrix cover bands, steve Ray Vaughan cover bands and also the blues bands, um, but uh.
Speaker 2:So I went to Chicago because I love the blues and I wanted to be there to see. I was, you know, and it was amazing. I had a great time when I was there. You know, like that's when I met Buddy Guy. I had I had a chance to jam with him. I was coming to his club every night and at the time I didn't speak anything in English. So I always say, I tell this story that I, of course, I I knew how to say hey. So what's your name or how much is this. Or my name is Arthur, I play guitar, I'm from Brazil, you know that kind of stuff. But there was one sentence that I learned that I was putting in practice every night. It was like hey, is there any jam session here? So I learned that phrase like perfectly, you know, and I used to come to the. Whatever there was a blues show happening, I would come with my guitar.
Speaker 2:At the time I was a kid, I was 21 years old. I decided to go when I was that age because I knew that I could get to the clubs. In the clubs, sure, only 21, right. So that was the reason. So, and then I played with a bunch of musicians, I learned a lot, came back to Brazil and decided to have my solo band. You know my solo career thing. So I quit all the bands with my band together, and that's when I started experimenting with different styles and mixing, because until that time I was very traditional. For me, blues has to be one, four, five, it has to. Was very traditional. For me, blues has to be 145. It has to. It cannot be in Portuguese, it has to be in English and, you know, has to be minor pentatonic. You know, you have to. I don't know. Respect that you cannot. You know 12 bars, eight bars or whatever you know.
Speaker 2:But then, when I went to Chicago, I saw them like mixing, and I thought like that, ok, I'm not from here, I'm not from the United States, I was born in Fortaleza, brazil, northeast of Brazil. Why am I being so picky and traditional about something that is not even mine or my culture? And I don't like to talk about much like that, because I think music is universal, sure, but no, it was originated here, so it's part of the culture here. So that's why I say it wasn't my culture, it wasn't mine. So I said you know what I'm going to. So I saw them experimenting with mixing, with rock, blues, with rock, with funk, with hip hop, with rap, with soul. Blues with rock, with funk, with hip-hop, with rap, with soul, with country, with everything.
Speaker 2:And I said you know what I'm gonna do the same so I started mixing with brazilian music from northeast of brazil, a rhythm called bayan, I don't know if you're familiar with. It's like in two, it's very mixolydian, it's it's very cool. So I started mixing with that and with rock, and then that's it. And then 2007, went back to Chicago again, 2011 again and back and forth to Brazil, you know, and then I moved to LA in 2016.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, Chicago's nice, but it's right where I live and it's cold, it gets cold. Yeah, Los Angeles is a little nicer and, uh, although the traffic is, uh, it's probably the same. I mean, LA traffic is horrible, but Chicago traffic is also horrible. So describe, uh, how what happened when you went to LA? So did you, did band members come with you, or did you get a new batch of guys to play with when you're in California? What kind of what? What happened that way?
Speaker 2:That's an interesting story because first weekend when I was here, I was talking to my friend Celso Salim he's a great guitar player, blues guitar player. He's from Brazil as well and I asked him hey, where are the jam sessions, where are the clubs? The clubs, and he said go to Maui Sugar Mill you know, and go to go there and talk to Zach.
Speaker 2:So I went there, I talked to Cadillac Zach and I write my name on the list and you know, when you're new in town, in town, that you and you go to play the jam sessions. They always gonna put you to play at the very, very last. Of course, they like until late, you know. So it was like three days I was in LA still dealing with jet lag and tired, so I went there, I jammed.
Speaker 2:After I jammed, zach came to talk to me hey man, you are amazing, do you have a band? And I said yes, I said let's book here, and then he gave me a date and the next day what I was was doing was like calling friends to try to find the band, because but if I say yeah, no, not, but I'm working on it, so you know, and then I would miss the opportunity, so yeah, so that's that's, that's what happened. And then you know I, we've been together start rehearsing, playing jams, playing shows, uh, start doing some openings and um, and also doing some festivals as well, because I already came here with you know, I was already going to europe to do tours, tours in brazil, even came here a couple times right.
Speaker 1:So yeah, basically it was like that I think it's so funny because there's so many videos of you and you know, I've got videos of our band and everyone. It seems like that the maui sugar mill is a great place for people to take videos and put them on youtube. Well, I think it's funny. It's like boy, how are all these blues bands playing on hawaii in hawaii? I'm like it's actually in a strip mall in tarzana.
Speaker 2:You know what's interesting? I was doing these last dates we were opening for Buddy Guy, a couple of dates and the drummer, julian Julian Ho, he's half Chinese, right, he's American, he's half Chinese and he's been to China a couple of times. And you know, in China the internet it's different, right, it's something like it's separated. I don't understand very well, but they don't. It's different, right, it's something like it's separated. I don't understand very well, but they don't have access to what's really happening here, right, likewise, unless you have, like the thing called VPN, something like that. I don't know those things, but anyway.
Speaker 2:So Julian was telling me that there is a bunch of videos from Maui Sugar Mill that got viral in China, from Maui Sugar Mill that got viral in China, and we have no idea because some guys there they had access to those downloaded the video and posted there again. So probably videos of yours, mine, you know, like a bunch of videos like viral, and because they don't have like social media like Instagram or that kind of stuff, so they don't tag us, so maybe they don't even know our names, but they fans of our work, but they don't know what's going on. I'm very excited about this because we were working on this tour in China, so I want to see how this is going to be, cause I think maybe people they know already my work there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you never know. I mean I had someone reach out to me and say, oh, there's tons of fans of you in China. I'm like really, yeah, because you never see anybody with like a Chinese account or whatever. I mean, occasionally on some of the social media you see that, but not tons. So yeah, it's an interesting thing. It would be wild. I mean, there's a lot of people in China that could be a lot of people in china that could be, uh, uh, that a lot of potential new customers. So, um, you did the record with josh and what else are you working on? I mean, so, as we all know, I mean it's kind of interesting.
Speaker 1:I've been seeing a bunch of you know uh, videos pop up and I, you know, I be honest, I I don't watch a bunch of the YouTube stuff. I just, I just don't. I like performance oriented things and I don't really like videos of you know of people discussing the state of the music industry or who's the best or who's underrated and all that kind of shit. I just, I'm just not interested in it. But it seems lightly, you know, you're seeing all of these things about. I just was on TikTok today and I was scrolling and, and there was this kind of older dude going you know, don't become a musician because, yada, yada, yada and was saying all the different things.
Speaker 1:But and certainly there are a lot more challenges in the in these days, days in terms of, you know, no one's really buying CDs anymore. I mean, they do, but it's almost like a pity buy. You know what I mean. It's like they want to leave the gig with something you know. And vinyl is better, because at least vinyl it's more of like a souvenir. Whether they listen to it or not, at least they've got something to hold on to. But you know, they buy t-shirts and they buy, you know, all the different stuff. And I sell guitar pedals that you know. I got my gristle King pedals, and so merch is a huge part of how you do business.
Speaker 1:But you know, all the traditional ways of kind of going about it are are just getting redefined and um, but at the same token, because of the internet, there are different ways to to make money. And so I'm, I'm kind of of the mind, of course I'm. You know, I just turned 58. So but I've been amazed because you know I've made a living as a musician for 30 years. You know what I mean and and a lot of that.
Speaker 1:You know my wife quit working when she wanted to stay home with the kids. I mean, that was 20 some years ago. So I'm you know I carried the boat for a family of six playing my guitar, you know. So you find ways to go about it and I'm just wondering from your perspective, because you're you're my one, of my daughter's age, you know. So I'm just wondering what your perspective is about being a musician, being a professional musician, and looking forward to you've got a a lot farther along as far as life to go wondering your perspectives on how the music industry is and what you foresee in the future and all that other kind of stuff. It's the best you know, obviously the best you can in terms of you know no one can see the future, but what are your thoughts?
Speaker 2:To be honest, I'm scared with all the AI thing and technology and that kind of stuff. Of course we take advantage of that, we use those tools, but I'm scared about the future. The last tour I was doing in Europe, I was talking with a tour manager and he was saying, like, after one of the shows he said, hey, hey guys, what you're doing here is amazing because we live in darker times. He said something like that you guys that play the live music, you like carrying the torch, you know you keep, you keep doing that, even though it's not, it's, it's hard, you know it's hard to make money, it's hard to to make a tour viable financially.
Speaker 2:That's why he said I think the same, but what I believe, it's things that, that, that, that uh sometimes comes in gold, like like waves, sure, but I think cyclical, right, cyclical, just like the blues. You know blues keeps coming back, coming back, you know, and, uh, it's never mainstream, but it's, you know, like always like appearing in our lives again, right? So, um, I think live music is going to be the same. I think when people started to notice how unhealthy is not really giving attention to art and music, uh, they're going to realize that's uh, and they're going to start to to uh, give attention to that again. That's what I think, but nowadays, what I believe is and I think it sucks, but that's how it is you have to do a lot of stuff. You have to write your music, you have to manage your career, you have to, you know, find other ways to make money with merch, with teaching, you know, online courses, merch signature gear instruments yep exactly.
Speaker 2:So it kind of sucks because you're not really focusing on what you like really doing, which is performing and playing. In my case, what I really like is being on stage.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I don't like much rehearsals, you know. Of course I enjoy teaching because I kind of feel like I'm doing something for the community, for the future of the blues and that kind of stuff, Right something for the community, for the future of the blues and that kind of stuff Right.
Speaker 2:But I really enjoy performing, even recording. When I have to record my new albums, of course I'm happy because I'll find new songs, I'm happy to put the songs out and that kind of stuff, but still what I enjoy the most is being on stage making music live and on spot, improvising with other human beings.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Exactly so it's kind of scary, I feel it's scary what's going on, but let's see. Let's see. Yeah, I'm not sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's an interesting thing. I mean I'm not really pessimistic about it. I mean I always tell the story about how my dad was a lawyer and I was the youngest of seven kids and he was not thrilled about me being a musician. So he had every one of my teachers along the way try to talk to me about the realities of being a musician. And I remember the last one was my college professor. The guy that ran the jazz department at the state college that I went to was the guitar player. He was the guitar teacher and, um, you know, and he goes yeah, you know, your dad wanted me to talk to you and tell you how the how the business really is, but they've always said the same stuff Look, you're never going to have any money. It's always uncertain. Um, you know you'll.
Speaker 1:As you get older, your, you expectations of what you want is going to change, and yada, yada, yada. And it's almost like and I always say you almost got to be a little crazy because you're like no, no, no, I don't give a shit, this is what I do and I'm going to find a way to make it work and things. I mean not to be weird about it, but you know, you just, you find things that just happen. I mean you do the footwork, you try to do the next. You know, as I say, you try to do the next right thing. Don't be an asshole. But if you work hard and practice and have something to offer and you're entertaining, I mean that's the biggest thing. I mean you can, I mean I always, I always find that and this is, you know, not to offend anybody that might be listening, but a lot of times you got, you know, jazz guys, get a little darker, or jazz people, I should say you know guys or gals, because I think you know obviously to be, you know, god knows how many standards they have to know by heart and so on and so forth. But by the same token, that's, that's a music. That's the average person, you know, hears it and they think, oh, am I in the dentist's office? You know, am I in an elevator? They, it's just doesn't have that same visceral connection, right, and so they're a little darker about. Well, no one understands how this music is, but you can find a way.
Speaker 1:All you, my thing I've been saying is because of the internet and so on and so forth, it's like you don't need a million people to get into your shit, you just need enough. And uh, the only thing that that that that frightens me a little bit is the enough part, because people, for the most part, they need some kind of glittery stuff. It has to be doctored up in a way. There seems to be fewer and fewer people who can just intrinsically respond to the positive aspects of music without being told you know what I mean, and um, so that's the only thing. That kind of frightens me. But, by the same token, if you play at a place, um, and it's a, and it's a bona fide music venue, it's not, as I like to say. I don't like playing places where they say, oh look, there's a band here, you know want it's like it's a live music venue. But people, when they hear, as you described, a real band where people are interacting in the moment, making music on the spot, improvising with that energy, and so on and so forth, they can't help but respond to it. And I think they're just. You know, you just have to find situations where you're continually given the opportunity to get in front of enough people, because once they see it, you got them, am I right? It's like once they come out and see they're theirs, they're yours for life, hopefully, you know, and so that's all good.
Speaker 1:But yeah, it's an interesting time. You know the internet, you know I was. I was seeing something today where someone was saying, you know, um, you know, fender and gibson are making the best guitars they've ever made right now and I'm like, yeah, but unfortunately, guys who are actually making a living can't afford them because I mean the, they have stuff for every price range but it's become more of a lifestyle brand instead of tools for creating music. I mean, they certainly do that, but you know what I mean by that. It's kind of like I was thinking of the analogy of like Harley Davidson. It's like Harley Davidson used to be for, like hardcore bikers, you know what I mean. Lifestyle people that lived on the road. They were, you know, it was hard, and then it became more of a lifestyle thing where you know, and it's fun.
Speaker 1:I mean people are dressing up on weekends, going out in their leather, you know, but they're not like you know, the Hellcat bikers that once. So I don't know. I'm just kind of rattling on here a little bit, the coffee's taking hold, but I just find that all stuff interesting. It's kind of the same as it ever was, because it's never been easy to be a musician yeah, what I think it's like uh, it was the same with me, my mother.
Speaker 2:She was like giving me support and my father was like, now, you know music, you have to. Music is a hobby. You know find, find like a real job, and then you can not that he, he likes music, but he he knows like find something that's gonna give you the, the security, financial security, stability, and then you can do your music and um, and I was considering that that's why I studied, I was studying law and I study administration as well, but I quit, I didn't finish those. Um, but yeah, but I think what you have to do is you have to do what you love, because life is so short, right, and yeah, and I think what I think is we are doing what we love.
Speaker 2:And then maybe sometimes you think, oh, but if I was doing something else, I would have more money. Right, we think like this, and then if you were doing something else and having more money, you would kind of think, oh, but you know what? I'd rather be doing what I really love, if I was doing music. How? So what? I think human beings, they are all the time like, uh, not satisfied with things you know, yeah.
Speaker 2:so I think it's part of being human. But I think we need to do what we love. We need to put our hearts on what we do and when we do that and we are being real people, they see that. And if you're doing something just for the money or for the fame and you were a musician but you doing something else, you're going to get maybe the fame and maybe the money, but you're not going to have the connection with the audience, right, and you're not going to feel fulfilled. I believe.
Speaker 1:I agree, I agree, I agree absolutely. It's interesting because the first thing I do in the morning when I wake up, I get coffee, I sit down, I just start playing, because that's what I like to do. It was an interesting thing. Sometimes the comments I mean I'm sure you're in the same situation, I've been blessed with 99% of the people that comment on any of my stuff are nice, you know what I mean. They're complimentary, they. You know there's there's not a lot of controversy, but every now and again you'll get people that'll say stuff and you're like, oh my God, what planet are these people on? But I had this this one guy because of these people on.
Speaker 1:But I had this one guy because I like to post something, if not every day, maybe every other day, where literally I just grab a guitar, turn on the camera and nine times out of 10, it's the first take and I just post it and be done. You know, and it's just kind of like it's a good exercise, to kind of say, if I can play something off the cuff and can actually stand to listen to it back, that's a pretty good practice routine, you know what I mean, let alone to put it online and people and I always look at it is that if my favorite guitar players back in the day would have done that, that would have been to me the most awesome thing in the world is to see kind of a little wake up call from hey, stevie Ray just turned down his camera and just played a little little thing, or, you know, or Hendrix, had he lived. He's like oh, jimmy's waking up. He's just playing a little thing before he goes on a stroll. He's like what Can you believe?
Speaker 2:that? That would be amazing.
Speaker 1:Right, I'm not saying that I'm those guys, but you get what I'm saying. Someone you look up to. Who would have done that would have been amazing. But I had this one guy post on Facebook where that's really where the mutants dwell, if we're honest, is on Facebook. Uh, present company excluded, of course.
Speaker 1:But, um, I had some guy goes, this guy needs to find a hobby. And I just thought that was the funniest goddamn thing and I realized, yeah, you can't really get to the level of, well, I mean, that's not a hundred percent true, but it's like I tell people I go, I don't have hobbies. It's not like I golf, you know, I don't go fishing, you know. It's like I play guitar and I reproduce. I mean it's like I've got my kids, I got my family, I make sure everything's taken care of and I enjoy hanging out with my wife and I mean I like reading and whatnot, and certainly when I'm traveling, I like history stuff and check, but but I don't have time for anything else, cause that's what I love to do, which is really awesome, because you think about it, it's like people say to me you know, obviously a lot of people getting to be my age, they're thinking about retiring.
Speaker 1:And they see these long tours, I'm going on and they're like oh my God, don't you get tired of it? I'm like, are you kidding me? I get to go out First of all. My son's on drums, so I get to travel around with my son and I'm with Toby, who is so easy to travel with and he's, you know, great musician. It's the three of us. We travel around, we show up, we're playing at venues where the only reason why people are coming there is to see us. It's not one of those places where, oh, look, there's a band here and uh, and we get to do what we love to do. We get to stop if we want to stop. You know, do whatever we want, and we get to play the music we want to play and it's I go. Why wouldn't? That's like the greatest thing in the world.
Speaker 2:I mean I go, why would I ever stop that? Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to do it until I drop.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know, and that may change, I mean another 10 years or so, I might be like, yeah, no, but for now it's like, you know, I like packing the van. You know what I mean. I like setting up my, I like setting up the merch stand. You know what I mean? It's like look at that shit, it looks awesome.
Speaker 1:So I don't know, but to your point, it's like, you know, most people don't do stuff that they like to do and so everything is kind of a drag. And then so that maybe that's why they've got other problems, you know, maybe they, you know, drink too much or use, or whatever the case may be, to take the dismal nature of their life out of the way. But if you do what you love to do, he's like, yeah, you, you take some lumps, but um, if you're into it for the moment, I guess that's the biggest thing. It's like when you finally get to the point where you're not obsessing about what you've played, you know, cause whenever I'm on stage and I play and maybe it was a shit gig, or maybe you know, we've, you know, I played some clams on a particular song I don't give a shit. It's like that happened in the moment we're done, now, in the moment we're done now.
Speaker 1:Let's move on. And I know other people would just be like, oh my God, that was the worst gig. And I remember someone posted something You're only as good as your last gig. I'm like that's horse shit, you know. It's like whatever happened in that moment was supposed to happen. Now we're going to move on.
Speaker 1:But at the same token, you can't be obsessed with oh, how is this? You know, thinking too much about people in the crowds, like you just got to be in the moment and do what's. You know what I mean and not worry about the gig tomorrow. Or, by the same token, if I show up at a place, I'm not worried about how many people are there, because it's like well, we did everything we could to get people here. This is what it is. I'm just going to enjoy myself and play. But you know, when I was younger, I guess I let all that other shit bother me, but now I just don't. So I just show up and as we're playing, I'm like this is awesome, it is what it is and everything just seems to work out. You know, it's like the door was a little lame tonight but I sold a shit ton on the merge or vice versa, or you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:It's just, it's awesome so what I'm saying is artists, when you get a little gray in your beard it's still awesome, nice, yeah. We interrupt this regularly scheduled gristle-infested conversation to give a special shout-out to our friends at Fishman Transducers, makers of the Greg Koch Signature Fluence Gristle Tone Pickup Set Can you dig that? And our friends at Wildwood Guitars of Louisville, colorado, bringing the heat in the shadow of the Rocky Mountains. So what do you got coming up? What's the plan for the rest of the summer here? I saw you got some dates overseas.
Speaker 2:So what I have? So in five days, no, in a week. In a week I'm going to be going to Italy. A couple of shows, I think I'm going to also visit Dolphix Dolphix, you were there.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Absolutely Yep.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I'm going to visit them too, but I have this little tour there, then I'm back and then I'm going to have something in California. Like we're going to do San Francisco, paso Robles, santa Barbara, la. You know it's a little run, short run, and I'm going to do the Hendrix tour.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I saw that, Cool yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm going to do five dates with them in October and I'm working on my new songs just in the moment now that I'm kind of shopping for the right producers and the thing is, the people that I want to work with they like very famous and expensive, so I have to find an approach to convince them, you know, yeah.
Speaker 2:I understand to see how it's gonna be, but I'm working on those songs, you know, staying, taking care of my health and you know basically that and thinking what are going to be the next steps for next year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going to ask you when you were mentioning doing another record. So I did something a little different this time. I've got this record coming out. That's going on. My buddy, devin Ullman's, got a label and of course you know what are labels these days. You know you can mostly do it all by yourself, but at the same token, if they've got a vehicle for promotion and other things that help as a result of the affiliation, well then it makes sense as far as that's concerned. But you know I'm doing because a lot of people will come up to my merch stand and they'll say what is your bluesiest record? Because you know I got 20 some records now and they're kind of all over the map. They got little different elements of it.
Speaker 1:You know, what you said earlier is like, and I was always of the mind of well, it can't just be a straight 12 bar, I've got to add this in the bridge and I got to have this little funky thing, cause I thought, well, you know, I need to push the ball down the field or the kick the can down the road a little bit. And then I realized that some of the most popular tunes that I've done, I've literally just said hey, let's do a 12 bar and a. I got a head that I'll make up on the spot and we record it. People are like, oh my God, you know which to me is. It's a little disconcerting. It's like you put all your effort in to make these really cool compositions and then the stuff off the top of your head is the stuff that people go. Oh, hey, they're there. It's like why even bother? But anyway, so it's mostly a compilation, compilation record.
Speaker 1:But I had two, two tunes in the can that I hadn't released yet. And he's like well, why don't you get some special guests on there? And so we ended up doing that. And so we ended up doing that, and then so we're only going to and he was kind of funny. He's like we'll promote those two songs and those will be the videos and we'll do some video work on it. But he goes I don't even care about the other songs. So it's like he hasn't even heard the other 11 tunes that will be on the CD and then we'll we'll have only have nine tunes for the, for the vinyl. But I was just wondering if you were of the mindset of the paradigm changes. It's almost like you only really need to release four or five tunes, because that's all people are going to listen to anyway.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:It's just so weird.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe that's where we we are when I mentioned about carrying the torch. Torch, maybe, if maybe that's something we need to do as well. I don't know, like keep insisting on that, on making the music, the vinyls and that kind of stuff, but um, yeah, but I think it's something to do with the algorithm, with the attention spam and that kind of stuff so you go go releasing by singles, like you said.
Speaker 2:They just want to hear like four or five songs. But yeah, yeah, but yeah, I don't have a vinyl yet. I would love to have one, because I grew up listening to vinyl, so that's something I it's a dream of mine. I want to have a vinyl, so maybe for this new record, who knows. But so I'm working on those songs. Recently I not recently, it was last year so I released this ep called the mfm, five songs with a label.
Speaker 2:Right before those songs they were recorded during the, during the pandemic right and it was only released that last year, because when you start working with a label, it opens some doors, they help somehow, but the process is so much slower. I would do by myself so much faster, you know, yeah, but, and before that, I had two albums produced by josh right josh smith he produced my first album here in the us to keep pushing 2018 and 2020, the fading away, which has uh, joe bonamassa playing one track with us. Right and uh. But before that it was the albums that I recorded in brazil, which I'm proud because I made them, but I'm not proud of how they sound. Got it because I was younger, you know I was self-producing, I was mixing, I was doing everything by myself at really low budget. So when I hear them they sound very mature, even the lyrics, you know.
Speaker 2:When you start growing up, you know you start to care more about stuff. Before I was just like copying and pasting, like I was writing songs based on what I was listening to. So, ok, blue songs. You know this blue song talks about I don't know, cheating on your wife. Let's write a song about cheating on your wife why, you know it talks about like potty and alcohol, this and that Right, I barely drink, I barely you know. So I said you know what I have to write songs that I connect with. So that's from the 2020 Fading Away. That's when I start going more towards the way. The last EP was very personal and very deep.
Speaker 2:I happen to my lyrics. They are very dark, I don't know why, I don't know why, but these new songs that I'm writing, the lyrics are really cool too. So I'm kind of go more towards, you know, like talk about death, talk about anxieties, talk about spiritual stuff, talk about social dilemmas, that kind of stuff. So I'm more going towards the way and my sound has been changing from the last five years, that I got obsessed with first pedals, right, especially first faces, so that makes you play completely different and makes you write songs differently too, you know. So I'm going. Every time it gets more psychedelic, more jammy, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah which is awesome, would you? Yeah, I love that shit yeah it is goodness.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've been um, an interesting thing that I've been seeing kind of lately, speaking of kind of fuzz and and jamming and psychedelics I'm like to this day. It's like hendrix is my all-time favorite, you know, and, uh, I love listening to hendrix and I love playing hendrix. You know, every. It's like Hendrix is my all-time favorite, you know, and I love listening to Hendrix and I love playing Hendrix. You know, every time it's kind of funny we kind of have slated for the next record after this blues compilation record comes out, is we're gonna, we're gonna do like a Hendrix tribute, because I do Hendrix in my way, you know, and I pick. You know interesting songs and I think anyway. But it's interesting when you know and I pick. You know interesting songs and I think anyway, but it's. It's interesting when you see and I don't know what I mean. I understand it to an extent, but this obsession of who's the best and the greatest guitar players of all time at some magazine, you know, like Rolling Stone will come out with a list and everyone will lose their shit. Like how come so-and-so's on this list when this other person isn't? It's like none of that shit matters, it's bullshit. But typically, what will happen now is there seems to be a push by the youngins to, to kind of say, I don't even know why Hendricks makes the list anymore. Things have evolved so far past what he did and I'm just like, oh my God, you don't get it at all because it has nothing to do about technique, although his technique was awesome.
Speaker 1:But you know, I saw this, this Pete Townsend little snippet today where they was talking. He was talking about Hendricks and from the look of the video I would say it was probably in the early two thousands that he said this. But he's like, he's like Jimmy, he goes. You scared the shit out of me, he goes. But he wasn't a guitar player, really he had. He was like a shaman. He's like I'd go and see him and I was like how is this even possible? What I'm experiencing right now, you know and and that's what I think people don't understand and what I used to respond to so much about the um you know why I wanted to play guitar.
Speaker 1:You know, kind of what you were talking about with your older brother. You know my brother was 14 years older than I was and I looked up to him like you know, my brother's super cool and he's into all this super cool music. You know it was Hendrix and cream and stones and James gang and Allman brothers and so on and so forth. So all of that music, those guitar players were like you know, none of them were real, I mean, especially in terms of today. I mean I see some of these guys, like you know, tim Henson now, and you know, of course, mateus Asado, does all this crazy stuff. But all these other guys where they're doing like it almost sounds like it sounds comical to me. It's like it almost sounds like it sounds comical to me. It's like, oh my God, there can't be a moment where there isn't something being played. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:It's like and it's and it's awesome to behold in terms of technique, but it's like I don't. I don't want to listen to it Now. Of course that could be. You know me, you know old man shouting, shouting at the clouds, but uh, but to me that has nothing to do with what hendrix did or what albert king did, or you know creamy or clapton. And then you hear people piling on oh, clapton was so overrated and who cares? And yada. I'm like, oh, my god, amazing especially during the cream.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, yes, wow yeah, so it's.
Speaker 1:It's an interesting thing that you know this idea of technique, um, and it's almost like an athleticism has been attached to music. Uh, especially in the advent of the instagram world and social media with you get a minute. Of course, now you can play more than a minute, but you know, to peak, to grab people's attention I'm sure you're, you have the same thing. It's like you can do something super soulful and it's all about tone and feel and it feels really good and you post it and people will respond, but you go be like oh my God, and you're just, it's a little. I mean, you're, first of all, I'm glad that anyone gives a shit one way or the other, but by the same token, it's like oh my God, really, what are your thoughts on the whole technique thing and the whole like oh, hendrix is nothing and Clapton it's really. You know this guy and you know it's crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the thing you said about the basket of play of all time, that kind of stuff, I think it's all clickbait because, right, people keep reacting. That's why those magazines they keep doing, they just want the clicks, yes, yes, uh. What I always think is, uh, there is always gonna be somebody better than you, if you can like, cause I don't believe that, but you can. I mean just trying to make my point there's always going to have somebody better than you, but it's always going to have somebody that prefers you than the one that it's better than you. Sure, absolutely, you know. So what? I think there's no such a thing as bad. It's more about, like, connecting with the hottest or not, you know Totally.
Speaker 2:So the thing about the speed thing, I think it's uh, that's what you said like attaching. Attaching like something related to sport, like to physical efforts or whatever, something that it's more like hey, look at this, there's something I can do that you can't, right, so I'm better than you, so I'm special. You are not. So it's more on that vibe, and I think it's very annoying for me, because we got in a place that speed became what's important to say, if something is good or not in a guitar playing important to say if something is good or not in a guitar playing. Let's say, uh, that for the that's what I'm trying to say. Speed became uh, same word as uh, virtuoso, right? Is that what you say? Virtuoso? Yep, that's it my pronunciation, right? Yeah, so, and I think we, we would have to consider many degrees of virtuoso, like be like, uh, feeling, timing, groove, you know the layback thing, you know everything so. But no, it's only speed, it's only the technical speed. If you're doing something different, that's virtuoso, you're better than somebody. So that's what matters, so that's what I. I I hate that, you know.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I post stuff like playing fast because that's what I'm feeling at the moment. Right Recording at home that came up and I was taking a video and saying this is kind of cool, and then I know that people react more to that. So sometimes I do that on purpose. If I want to promote a show that is coming up or a release or something, I use a video that I go more, working harder, so I know it's going to engage more. But if I don't have anything to take advantage of, I'm going to post like something that I really care what I think it's like if you play fast because it's who you are, it's part of your personality, it's what comes in the moment Bingo, nice People, they're going to love it, they're going to understand.
Speaker 2:But if you play something fast because you're like you know, I'm going to play something fast now because I want to try to catch the attention of the audience or I want to try to get something, you know I'm going to try to impress, I'm going to try to show off. It's not going to sound natural. Some people they're going to, oh, this is cool, this is nice, but others they're gonna feel it even they don't understand the music side. It was a little bit off, right, you know, because it wasn't played from the heart. So if you play fast because you know, if you're like an anxious person that speaks a lot, that it's like very accelerated and that's how you play, awesome. Or if you play fast because you know I'm mad today I want to put all this anger out, you know I'm gonna shred this shit off. That you know. And then you go and do it, awesome. And if you play slow because of the same reasons, awesome.
Speaker 2:And I think where you live also it reflects on your playing. If you come, let's say the bebop, new york city, you know everything, very frenetic. So the city, this lifestyle, that's fine, I know, like west coast, something else new to the ocean, it's more, you know. So it's the same thing in brazil's. If you go south, northeast of brazil, you know if you are not dealing with any anxieties related to money, you're super like well in a place in life, you're gonna be relaxed. You're gonna play more laid back. If you're struggling, you have to pay life, you're going to be relaxed. You're going to play more laid back. If you're struggling you have to pay your bills, you're going to play, maybe faster, you're not going to really breathe. So I think everything is reflected, but as long as it's natural, awesome.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:I concur Heartily. So what kind of? Let's talk about gear for a minute. What's your latest flavor for amplification devices, are you? Oh my God, I'm spacing on the name. What's the amp of choice? Is it Turok, turok?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, turok, yeah, that's when we met first time in person. It was the Turok party at NAMM.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, right before the pandemic Right, so, and it was the true rock party at nam. Oh, okay, at the uh for the epidemic. Yeah, right, so, that was at that club. That, which is also didn't, did not survive the pandemic. It was that uh place that was owned by those guys. Slide bar, slide bar. There we go, yeah, yeah 2020.
Speaker 2:It was in 2020, yeah. So that's when I played to rock for the first time, I believe, and I always wanted the amps because you know, I've seen, like the players, that I like playing those amps and amazing tones, and I always wanted the amps because you know, I've seen, like the players, that I like playing those amps and amazing tones and I want something like that but very expensive. So I played that party. After that I talked to to eli and I said, hey, like I don't know if you have any interest in having me as an artist or if you offer artist discounts or whatever, but I really like the amp, I gotta have one and let's, let's work something. And then he just sent me the amp nice.
Speaker 1:So do you like to? Do you like to set it so that it just starts to break up and you use pedals on top of that? Or you said it's straight clean, or do you use channel switching? What do you? What do you kind of like to do clean?
Speaker 2:straight, clean. Okay, I always heard that you know you have to have an amp, like kind of crunchy edge of breakup, to sound good at first. I disagree, you just need to play loud, right. So if it's loud and it's clean, I have room like super loud, awesome. It's gonna sound even better when it's crunchy, in my opinion right so that's why I have the traditional clean 100 watts. Okay.
Speaker 1:That's my. Does it have reverb on it or no?
Speaker 2:Yeah, reverb, yeah, and on the floor, 95% of the show, even more fuzz face all the time. Even my clean tones with a fuzz face, I would play with overdrive. If I play something more bluesy, let's say my shows, I have one, one song that I usually play which is called any day, any time, which is more like a jazzy slow blues. So I go in overdrive, clean and overdrive, and when I play blues in the natural I kind of go the version similar, similar to oh shit, I forgot his name Earl Ronnie Earl, okay, yeah, yeah. So I play kind of towards that version. So, and then I go with an overdrive too, but most of the time I fuzz face, you know, and I like to fuzz before the univime.
Speaker 1:Okay, yes, yes, yes, yeah. The fuzz is a glorious thing. You find a good one. You know, a lot of people don't realize that hendrix had that thing on a lot and he would just turn the guitar down and it would clean up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and uh, yeah, I think the clean tone coming from a fuzz face just rolling your volume down. It sounds better than when I just have the clean tone from the amp. When I compare and I measure the levels, the volume levels, I prefer the one that comes from the first.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a cool thing, no doubt about it. It's also interesting. I don't know how much aggravation you get, but you know, one of the things about the current music industry situation is that, especially when you go over to Europe, man in clubs, they're all over you. About the current music industry situation is is that especially when you go over to Europe, man in clubs, they're all over you about the volume. Oh my God, it's so loud. And you're like, really, I barely have this thing on. I mean, what are you talking about? Oh, it's solo, let us put it through the pan. I'm like, no, just let us play, but it's it's. It seems to happen more in Europe than it does in the States now. I mean, we show up at a club and people know what they're getting and we just do our thing and no one says shit to us. But over there, especially in Germany, it's like, oh my Lord, oh my God, it's so loud, you need to turn down. It's like it's crazy.
