Episode 26: Teaching Teens Hope in Times of War, featuring Elad Talmor

In this episode of The Hope Matrix Podcast, host Kathryn Goetzke sits down with Elad Talmor, a cognitive behavioral psychologist based in Israel, to discuss his work in empowering and teaching teens about Hope amidst challenging circumstances, like war. Elad shares insights from his experience working with teenagers in Israel, who are grappling with the aftermath of the October service massacre and ongoing tensions in the region.

Through his workshops and counseling sessions, Elad helps these young people cultivate hope by teaching them practical skills to navigate stress and adversity. He emphasizes the importance of personalized goal-setting and resilience-building techniques, highlighting the positive impact it has on the teenagers he works with,

Join Kathryn and Elad as they explore the power of hope in the face of adversity and the transformative potential of empowering youth to create change in their own lives and communities.

Learn about the Hopeful Minds Program at https://hopefulminds.org/.

Get a copy of the Hopeful Minds Teen Hopeguide: https://theshinehopecompany.com/teen-hopeguide/

Transcript

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This is Kathryn Goetzke, host of The Hope Matrix podcast. We are here to share science, stories and strategies for how to hope. I'm the Chief Hope officer of the Shine Hope Company. And SHINE is the mnemonic for how we teach hope. So when we talk about hope, we talk about how we use Stress Skills, Happiness habits, Inspired Actions, Nourishing Networks and Eliminating Challenges which are thinking patterns that get in the way of our ability to hope. Hope is a skill. You can measure hope, you can teach hope and you can start practicing skills to activate higher hope in your life today. And on this Hope Matrix podcast, we aim to bring in guests, experts in science, people with stories, and those that have strategies for activating hope in your life. Hello, This is Kathryn Goetzke with The Hope Matrix podcast. Thank you so much for joining in today and listening. So grateful to have you here and to be talking about my favorite subject, the subject of Shining Hope, How we shine, hope and hope overall. And I'm really, really, really grateful today to be speaking with our guest. This is really why I do the work that I'm doing. Today we have Elad Talmor, and he is coming to us from Israel. And I met Elad. Let's see. But you reached out to me, didn't you? On email. So about our programing with you. So first of all, welcome. Thank you so much for joining us. How are you today? So, okay. Thank you for having me. So I'm good. I'm good. How are you? Good. I'm good. I mean, we got to speak a little bit before here, so I'm already emotional and just, you know, full of gratitude for you taking the time, first of all, to connect with us here, to share kind of what's happening. And, you know, you're. So tell us a little bit more about yourself. I let it come from you, your background. So I'm 44 and I live in Israel. I was born and raised in Israel and I have one child. I have a son, 13 and a half, he just become a teenager lately. And I'm a social worker. All right. So I have a master's degree in the Social work. I have also another master's degree in public policy administration from Ben-Gurion University in the Negev. and I also participated free years psychotherapy, school of CBT, of Cognitive Behavioral therapy. So I'm also a psychotherapist, and I mainly work with teenagers. I work with teenagers in high schools in Israel. I'm part of a staff. And what we're trying to do are actually, Kathryn, to help them out with, sometimes teenagers struggle with all kinds of stuff, with anxiety, with depression, with social issues, and we are trying to help them to cope better. yes, this is who I am. Teenagers, are one and challenging to work with. I can imagine. When we did our teen program, it was peer to peer because I thought, I'm not going to listen to any adults, you know, but I listen to other teens. I will learn unless another teen. So but it's a really fun it's a great age to be working with. So that's amazing. And yeah, so tell us more about and I was you know, I was so touched by when you reached out to me about our program and let me know you'd gotten our teen program for youth there. And I said, How can I help? Like, what can I do to to support? Because, I mean, it's really why I developed all of this work is because, you know, we deal with so many challenges around us. And I have a very high ACS score myself. And and there were so much especially as a youth, I couldn't control. And yet there were things that I could control and needed skills to manage life and didn't have them. And wanted to give that gift to youth. And so, you know, what you're going through right now is that, you know, something I can't imagine, A. And B, when we go through any kind of significant trauma or challenges or anything, that's when we stop doing things that we teach. And so for me, you're reaching out and saying this is a priority for me to be teaching with our youth now, especially during this time. It's just I mean, it was so touching because that's exactly why I created all of them and do all of this work, because it is the most critical time that we start using these skills and or that we're aware of them and use them and practice them and are diligent. So give me a little bit more insight about what it's like, what's going on there. So, you know, Kathryn. First of all, I'd like to thank you. When I reach out to you and you said you replied and your emails were so encouraging to me and because we had the October 7th massacre here in Israel, thousands of terrorists, they did terrible things. I prefer not even to to discuss it. But, at the end of the day, many, many people were hurt. Many people were hurt. I personally lost two friends of mine who were murdered. And what happened is that many teenagers were experiencing trauma. Some of them were injured. Some of them know people who got injured. Many of them were exposed through social media images and videos. Horrendous. I mean, it was changed that you shouldn't see if you want to to keep, your soul, if you want to protect yourself. So what what I found out is that I cannot no longer walk, like I used to do and, and for, I mean just a I need to talk with groups. I need to do something which is more meaningful in this time. And I found that your work, the work you've done, Hopeful Minds Program is an excellent program to and very beneficial especially in trying times like these for the teenagers. And to be honest with you, also for myself because it's difficult to keep hope and maybe I am still grieving for the friends I lost. Many people are grieving these days and at the same time it's it's very scary and it's we don't know what how it's going to develop and the war goes on. I mean, as we speak right now, there's still war. Yeah, I just miles away from my home, you know, the Gaza Strip border and also in the border in the north of the border of Israel with Lebanon so the uncertainty is very huge. Yeah. And I'm, you know, I'm so sorry about your losses and, and the trauma and all that's happening. I mean it's yeah, grief is a process. And so just because all of this is, still all going on and then there's daily things you have to deal with on a daily basis and, you've got your grief and then you've got to show up for your kids and. Right. You know, and it's and teach them and it's I can't imagine I mean, I so really commend you for your bravery and courage and your presence and your leadership for the kids and you what you're doing. And I would like to tell you, Kathryn, the most painful thing is that above 100 Israelis are kidnaped, trapped hostages by those terrorists in the Gaza Strip. More than 100 as we speak right now. And I'm talking about teenagers, elderly people, women. It's terrible. Yeah. So we are praying for them and we we support the families. You know, I don't know any of them personally. But for me now, like brothers and sisters. It's a small country, Israel. They go to well known and their family, we see their families on TV every day, So this is the most pain free to cope for me and for many other you know, these days. And so how are you managing your sadness and anger and kind of all of that? What are you doing to care for yourself? Right. Right. So the most important thing that I realized is that I, I have to continue to be in touch with my friends and with my colleagues and with my instructors. And that to sometimes even to hang out with with friends. You know, many people include myself, I feel that a little bit guilt or shame that we continue to live our lives regularly. All right. When so many people are still suffering and so many kidnaped Israelis are kept still held off the Jews over there. But I realize that I needed it. Yeah. That it's a necessity now. So this is one thing. And the other thing is that I, I continue to exercise. I love, I love running. So I continue to run three or four times a week and it's helping me out to And I mean, and that's the thing, like when we're under times of significant stress or duress, the guilt of that, you know, we have our stress hormones which are so elevated. So we've got to do things to help counteract those stress hormones. And we've got to do things to generate dopamine and serotonin and those positive oxytocin. And, we've got to make time for that or we get sick, you know, or we develop persistent hopelessness, develop clinical anxiety and depression, stop having energy to do anything. You know, don't get out of bed, I mean, or turn to addiction to escape. It's like, right. And yet there's that guilt component of it. I mean, we call them Happiness Habits as our H, but it's like it's the things that release those positive endorphins. It's trying to, you know, exercise, getting sleep however we can, you know, and and prioritizing that during times of distress. And do you know you're under I think, the most distressing time you can potentially be under. And so how do you bring that then to the kids? How do you teach the kids to do that? Right. So first of all, I agree with you, Kathryn, and the same thing is that I try to keep doing these days. I discussed it with the teenagers also the course we are talking about how important it is to continue and be active to exercise and to hang out with friends despite the fact that there is so many other families and people are suffering. And just to pay attention, not to spend too much time on social media, it's I think it's challenging for everyone, especially for teenagers. we know it's not healthy for them. I know. And I’m talking with them about going to sleep early and they don't like it of course, this type of discussion. But you know, just a little bit tips, recommendations about how to sleep better. Okay. Just maybe put your mobile phone outside of the room before you go to bed. Yeah. All those basic recommendations. So they listen. They listen. Yeah, Sometimes they don't. They don't look excited about all about it, right? Yeah, but they do listen, and I hope this some recommendations are applied. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. Our social media component of our teen program is we just have them research social media and, you know, so they start learning about like and looking at the positives and negatives and start noticing how they feel about it. We try not to say it's good or bad, you know, we try to have them explore and figure it out for themselves because when we developed the program, we worked with teens to develop it and they were very clear, you know, don't come telling us about anything about social media, you know, And they were open to learning about it and researching it and studying it on their own and then having discussions among themselves on it, you know, just not having a prescription from us. And so that's, you know, a lot of the teen programing as we built it out was built them doing research on I mean, violence releases endorphins. So like it feels good to be violent when you're in pain and so it released but it's just not healthy. It's not a healthy reaction, especially long term and the consequences of that. And so we try to you know, the teen program is all about kind of educating around that. What are other ways to get endorphins released, You know, so when you need that, you can get I mean, it's you know, we want to feel better as humans, right? And, you know, I work with most of the teenagers are rescued. And you're right. So when they are violent for a few for a few moments they feel the taunt. But then they're downstairs brain. And things get messy. So we're we are trying we minimize and the staff and the counselor and the teacher. We are having discussions about the pro and cons of violence. Because just as you said, just for a few moments, you feel good. Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah. And there's a biological reason for that. And so as we work with teens on that and explain that to them, they start to take some of that shame out of it, I believe, for them because they understand. So I just learned they have to like kind of become, you know, get stronger than that biological response and think, you know, use their minds to think of other ways to get those endorphins, I mean, because when you and when we continue to be punitive in our work with teens and shaming around these things where if we're not teaching them this, you know, if we're not educating and I know that we're not for the most part, at least not here in the U.S., we don't educate them about this. How can we expect them to do any differently? How can we you know, so to me, it's so important that we teach these skills, especially at a young ages and help, you know, allow them to make better decisions and from a more kind of informed place. Right. Right. You know, Kathryn, sometimes we tell them to relax. We set them a goal, but we don't instruct them how to achieve the goal. Right? Yeah. So this is when when I find that skills are very useful because of it. Okay, so you've got tools you can train. Yeah. In order to go through to be more self-regulated. All right, so we are working out on a relation and and it will help you out in each and every aspect of your life because you can you can choose how to react. I don't, I'm not trying to too negative to your doubt to respond from your downstairs brain. Yeah. And and what we are using *inaudible* technique it's called the Asian duck. It's basically a technique that was developed by*inaudible* is a psychologist in Israel is expertise to the act, acceptance and commit. Commitment Therapy. yes and what what we developed a tool which which is very similar to stress skills from Hopeful Minds. So basically we are teaching them first of all, to stop that negative talk. Yeah, right. Pay attention to your negative talk and stop it and gently, gently, close your fist. All right, Inhale. And exhale. Open your fist. Yeah. All right. Do it once again. And now take two deep breath. And it's. It's so. It's so much similar to Shine. Stress Skills. Then we go on to a positive self-talk. Okay. They have to prepare in advance a sentence to help them to cope with difficult moments. With moments they are they feel stressed. They feel anxious, they feel anger. There are walkies to, to prepare these changes, these two sentences in advance. And when they feel anxious and now they apply they, they need to. Yeah. That's kind sense. Yes. Affirming beliefs. I love it. Amazing. That's exactly what it is. And then, they go on, they continue to do whatever they do. Yeah. And I love talked with that. I love talk, talk and talking with them. And to give a metaphor of a basketball game and when things that generate okay, so the coach takes time out, it signals I want to take time out so everyone goes there. The the game is stops and everyone goes to the bench. And this is exactly the same. We need time out, right? Yes. I think that actually you and everyone can learn how to take their time out, you know, and it becomes magic when you start to recognize when your stress response is activated and can catch it like before, you know, it gets to this is a challenge. To identify right and moment before. The explosion Exactly. And to me, if we can work together as a whole society and start practicing these skills and acknowledge that we all, you know, this is a part of everything. I mean everyone deals with this, right? Everyone has this stress response and practicing together how to kind of proactively manage it so that we're not, you know, destroying things around us in those moments when we get triggered. So, yeah, that's amazing. Yes. You know, they know so much stuff and things at school about the world, about history, geography. But they don't now learn a lot about what's going on inside of. It's so important to get to know what's going on inside of you. How do you respond, when you're all triggered. And when you feel anxious. This is what we are doing with them. That is amazing. I know it's going to serve them so well. And, you know, when we did research on our college course, that's what we've found, that, we're learning this for the first time. We've never heard of a lot of this stuff before, you know, in the Shine Framework. And these aren't, super expert level things that we're talking about. So to me, it's so important and it just impacts everything in our life. And as we've gotten deep into the hope research is like knowing how to hope is so important to really everything we want. You're right. But it's first of all, it's not rocket science. It's not. And second of all, I found out that people do not reject when we are talking about hope. Okay? They will tell me, “We don't want to discuss happiness.” not this time. I know. Because it's hard. So it's so hard and difficult and painful. But what we can discuss hope. And I mean, that's really why I changed my focus to I have the other company, the Mood Factory and, and I have, you know, the nonprofit and the Shine Hope Company because you can't really get to happiness until you're pretty, until you get to hope. And I didn't know how to get to hope, You know, I didn't know. And they weren't teaching you how to get to hope and to me it's so important. And I agree. And I think globally, I mean, there's so many challenges around the world with so many things and especially our youth or youth, they're really concerned about, you know, the environment and global warming. And they don't want to talk about they want to talk about hope. How do we hope for a and how do we get there? You know? Right, Right. But what's inspiring to me is the kids are so charged emotionally, like they've got so much passion and it can turn to rage and sadness and fear or they can harness that and learn how to use that energy to drive innovation and change. And once you're taught skills to transform that sadness into kind of powerful change or anger or whatever it is, I mean, to me, whatever we're so emotional about is just really an indication of what we care so much about. So how can we use that energy in a way that's healthy for us and not use it to destroy ourselves or destroy other people? I think that's the real the real challenge. That's right. That's right. And that's, you know, Kathryn, that's the reason we are discussing about when we talk about setting goals, how important it is that your goal is appropriate. You're not going to harm anyone or yourself by achieving this goal. And if you improve something, if you help anyone and yourself, it goes to, to the both direction to help others and help yourself. Then it's a good goal. Then it's an appropriate goal. I love that. I love that. Having that kind of question ahead of time too. Yeah, absolutely. And, and moreover, when when we are thinking about the takeaways, it's very important that you re be honest with what you're doing. I mean, don't manipulate others in order to achieve your goal. Yeah. So yeah. And you know, I am telling many of them. Because you know many of them, they have unsafe attachment they don't trust easily they don't many of them don't trust others. We understand why. They suffer traumas and all kinds of stuff. And I tell them if you ask for help from others, you're be surprised how many people would love to help you out. Some of them don't even consider to ask for help. And we know how important that is, especially with youth, every youth needs one person at least they can go to get support. And then you’d asked the teacher said half my class couldn't identify anyone. You know, you think about that and and it's so important to achieving what we want. We know with goals, writing them down and then checking in with someone regularly. So having someone that can support us or encourage us or whatnot is so critical. And yet, yeah, so many youth don't have that. And so a lot of that encouraging them to to find those people. They can't, you know, if they can't identify someone, how do they then create that person or find and we tell the teachers, please be that person for that child and help them create that network because it is so important. Right. And, you know, sometimes they find a specific person. It could be an older brother or sister or it could be a neighbor. Right. You you have to make an effort just to identify. Yeah. Who is going to stand by you. Exactly. That's the goal. You know, that's every one with that, you know, talk so much about the loneliness epidemic right now. And and I said, we've got to make a if you want connections in your life, it's not something that just happens. So you got to actually have a goal, too, and you've got to take steps to get there, got to overcome the challenges to making connections and, you know, so there's kind of a process to me, if you if you'd if you know how to hope, you can then make connections because that's the path I hope for friends. And so here's the framework for how to get there. Manage your stress around not having friends, practice happiness habits, take inspired actions towards that, you know, just kind of. That's amazing. And so what are the goals of kids right now? Like, what are they? Well, they want to get rich and famous. All they do is are you teaching them the smart goals, attainable being the key? You know, that's what that's, that's what they see on TV shows. I know, I know. So they want to become and I don't know. I asked one kid, teenager, what is the reason that you want to become a millionaire? Yeah. And that was the well, touching. He said, I want to help out my mama because she struggles financially. Yeah, right. now. So now it's on purpose. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, we do extrinsic versus intrinsic goals. So if it's extrinsic motivated for just money versus intrinsically to help my mom to get my mom needs her needs matter or whatnot. Yeah. You know, they still have to figure out a pathway to get there. So rich and famous. But whatever it is. But what are the, you know, specific, measurable, attainable? You know, it can be attainable if you have the right process and you set, you know, you'd go through the step in process of the goals and you do the things you need to do to get there, you know? So yeah, but that's that's very funny, right? You know, there's nothing wrong with being rich. Right? Right. If you are a person with integrity in a decent way. Yeah. And you help others and Yeah. So you, if you are a teenager, this is a good time for you to practice and commitment and to working hard and perseverance. Yeah. And all, all those kinds of skills that would get you there. Yeah. Yeah. But there's need to be something else. Yeah. Right. Not just to make a lot of money, but to get value. Yeah. To help others, innovate, create a set of challenges that humanity is facing, you know? Yeah. All about exactly. You know, you know, Kathryn, in Israel there are many startups. Yeah. I have the high tech team. It’s amazing. So much innovation. Exactly. So many teenagers, they dream about developing something new to innovate something and to hope that Google would buy it. And to get rich. So what statistics show that not everyone succeed. Of course. I know that's why you need high hope. Especially entrepreneurs. When you start looking at data at the amount of failures and products and companies, I mean, it's, you know, and it makes sense. Of course, you know, when you look at hopelessness being just emotional despair and motivational helplessness. So kind of powerless to do anything emotionally like angry or frustrated or afraid and you think about being an entrepreneur and all the challenges you face on a regular basis, like way more. And it's just how do you consistently overcome it, You know, come up with new pathways to your goals, overcome your obstacles, recall, you know, pivot when you need to. I mean, there are so many times you need to do that and, you know, if I had known, I would be doing hope for ten years. I mean, that's it's like I thought I'll create a program for kids and I'll kind of be done with that, you know? And then I just realize it's so important and it's so important to all ages and all. And yet it's been way more challenging than you know. And it's yeah, that's my persistence and perseverance that will continue to make a progress. So I think it kind of will reach a tipping point. And that's what happened with the other brand I had, too. But it's staying persistent and those challenges and sacrifices, that I've had to make in so many different ways and just being committed to it and knowing from a purpose standpoint, this is, you know, what I'm supposed to be doing and learning and sharing and innovating, you know, around. but in the entrepreneurial space overall, it's challenging. Yes, I completely agree with you. You know, I think you mentioned purpose. When we have a strong sense of purpose, we are willing to sacrifice in order to do what we do. you know, I love William Damon. William Damon. He wrote a book about to instruct teachers and and parents how to find the kids, the teenagers to find purpose, to help them find purpose. So basically what it says is that “We should help the teenagers, younger, young people to find goals long term goals, and to commit to it. And then it should be something meaningful to them.” The motivation is so they have motivation for it, right? And the most important component is that they contribute to others, they contribute to the world. It's not all or it's not only survival. Not only about, about myself. It's also what I give to others. How I help others. Absolutely. And that's, I mean, that's to why it's so important that we manage our stress response and our stress skills and we get extra diligent about them during times of any kind of challenge in our life. You know, that we serve so that we can keep innovating, so that we can keep problem solving when we're in our stress response and, you know, our downstairs brain, we're not innovating, we're not creating, we can't create from that space. And so have get back upstairs. And how do we kind of stay upstairs as often as we can so that we can fulfill our purpose and why we're here on this planet, you know, and teaching kids. Right. Right. And, you know, teenagers, they they cope with strong emotions. And so, the mind has the tendency to go down still. I know. A negative bias. Exactly the negative bias. Yeah. it's so important just to teach them, you know, to introduce them. With the possibility, not to deteriorate. I know. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It's like you got to keep practicing like you don't learn how to hope and then all of a sudden you're hopeful. You know, it's like life is my hope. Scores change all the time, depending on the day, really and the challenges and it's and am I extra diligent about the things I need to do to remain hopeful or to get back to hope or to, you know, manage. And, you know, some days I'm like, I see no path. I don't know how I'm going to get forward or get out of this or move. And it's those days that I earn. I better get to the gym. I better make sure I'm getting my sleep better look at what I'm eating. I better, you know, take time to meditate, you know, prayer for me. Deep breathing, kind of all of those things and and become so important during that time, during those times. And, as an entrepreneur, any time of great change or challenge, and you all certainly have a lot of it right now and so. And then when your stress hormones are elevated, your even you react even faster to things, to, you know, your stress response that time kind of shortens, you know, the more stress hormones you have. So and that's like during COVID and we saw that everywhere. People were just reacting, sort of reacting so quickly and to things that normally people wouldn't be reacting to. And so. Right. You know, teaching new skills and and practicing, you know, as a society, of course. And we also encourage teenagers to practice self-compassion. Yeah, absolutely. And this this is thanks to *iaudible* shared with with us with the world. Her research and we are discussing what is so compassionate with the teenagers and how they how can they practice it in in their daily lives. Because you know, especially in trying times like that, dealing with helplessness. Yeah, right. Looking up, if you would. We would say you kidnaped the hostages together, but we can't. I mean. Right. So so sometimes we would just have to to stay to to be with all those difficult emotions and not to do anything but just to gently accepted. Yeah. Honor them. And just to, to be aware that and not, not to do anything. And for teenagers it's it's not easy. I know. Yeah. Yeah. Because many so many of them they act out. They're acting out I mean they have to behave, they're emotional, they behave their feelings. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I mean, helplessness is one of the two ingredients of hopelessness. It's that despair and then helplessness. And so when, we do as part of our program, the control the controllables, like, I don't know if you've done that with the kids, but what is inside my locus of control in this situation and what is outside? And so, you know, it's really helpful to kind of think about that because the more we focus on what's outside of our control, the more hopeless we feel. And then it becomes that persistent hopelessness and sad all the time or, you know, become clinically depressed or whatnot. Right? So like, how do we go through that exercise to think about, okay, what can we control in this situation and how can we focus on that and stay in the present moment and to continue to do things to keep us present so we're not worrying about the future so much or ruminating over the past or, you know, those are those are all big challenges to hope that to me, first, like awareness of all of them and educating kids on those challenges and why they're challenges and then starting practicing skills to help to help kind of manage all the different aspects of the challenges. Right. Right. Yes. And, you know, sometimes when you when you are like a teenager, when you struggle with the difficult emotions this is a good time to help adults, you know, to do all social behavior, to volunteer, to support others, to encourage others. Yeah. And because if you focus too much on what you think and what you feel, sometimes it comes down a rabbit hole. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. So just pay attention that others may end up overly suffering as well. Yeah. They could need, and you could do something about it. So to help them. Absolutely. Yeah. It's a it's a win win situation. Totally. Yes. You would feel better yourself. Yeah. And the person you helped them out would feel better. Yeah. Yeah absolutely. And that's like we encourage others to teach hope. Like if they're having challenges with their own hope, download the programs and start teaching others about hope. Because once you start teaching kids and working with kids on hope, I mean, I've traveled all over and like that's the most inspiring where, you know, kids learning about hope and then how insightful they are about hope and about some of these things we teach and what they share. And it's like and they get it, you know, they they tend to get it quickly. And if you can get kids early and teach them these skills, but you know, that is giving back. And there's so much research. We have a new infographic. I don't I think I shared it with you, I'm not sure but we we linked out. So for our Shine Hope framework and all of the things that fall under the Stress Skills or Happiness Habits and smart actions, we link out to articles and research that really validate the model that we have and it's pretty compelling. There's so much research on volunteering and doing for others and how that helps us and and why that's kind of a skill we can use to help navigate our own when we get stuck in those cycles of, despair or feeling bad about things or or kind of all of that. So helping. Right, right, right. I mean, you know, Israeli teenagers I meet Arabs and Jews, they are amazing. They're amazing that I mean, they they do so much good things to others. And they support their families and they cope with the stress of of learning and but they are amazing. I mean, I have hope. Yeah, I know. I have hope that despite the fact that it's such a these are such trying times and so much it’s messy. I mean I'm not it's close to a crisis. We are still dealing with it. Well yeah, coping with that. We will become better society. I truly believe it. Yeah I do. You know, it could it could take time. Yeah, it could be. But we have patience. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I agree. And I think the evolution of our brains, I mean, we know that we feel better when we're kind and compassionate and forgiving and loving. Like there's now so much research that's coming out. And I think it's just part of how we evolve and learn. I think I believe there will be a day when we learn how to resolve everything peacefully, but we don't, you know, not my own, you know, that's my own belief. So now many would agree with me. And yet I think that's our brains are evolving in that way. And as we kind of grow the our ability to regulate the emotional, the reptilian, I mean, to me that's just a old emotional response, you know? And when we really learn how to how to manage those, all of those feelings in ways that are healthy and I mean, I know we know it doesn't feel good to kill people. Like it just doesn't you know, it's not unnatural. And so and I believe we'll eventually get there that will And I think that youth like I think youth now are so compassionate and accepting of all and want everyone to feel heard and importance for for the most part, you know, and I just think it's part of our evolution. So. Yes. Yes. And they they they expect people from all kinds of time and types, and they don't have stereotypes like that. There are the former generation used to have about homosexuality and all kinds of stuff. I'm in the more open minded. Yeah. And you know, you know, Kathryn, my instructor, his name is Jamal and is an 80 years old psychologist. and just a few days after the October 7th massacre, I, I had an online meeting with him, a long meeting with him, and I and I asked him, is Sahar, how can we stay? Hope? How can we stay hopeful? No, it's unbelievable what's going on. And, you know, and he has learned history because it's interesting for him for many years. He's learned history. And he told me that many, many people who were in fierce conflict and fighting eventually, after years, after decades, sometimes even after a century, they resolved the conflict peacefully. So maybe it unfortunately it could take time. You know when I was a teenager and back in the nineties, there was a peace process here in Israel and we made we did actually peace with the Palestinians, but unfortunately it didn't last for for long. No. And so I guess my son and my son's generation will have we will resolve it peacefully with the again, with the kids and their grandkids of the Palestinians for them, for the generations. Yeah, yeah. I have hope. Yeah, I do, too. I absolutely do. I mean, yeah, absolutely. And I teach on the skills, the like. Yeah, this makes sense. You know, we've done a lot of work in Northern Ireland where there was a lot of conflict there. We worked in the integrated colleges there, which are high schools, but where they, you know, brought Catholics and Protestants together. And, you know, I have a friend that, you know, they grew up and they were killing each other over. Were they Catholics or Protestants, you know, and and now they're doing the work in the schools. So they've you know, Northern Ireland's done a lot on her that the hope work and the BBC did a documentary and that was really cool. And I mean, I learned so much from being over there with those kids and, and I do think, as because we know, like, there's enough science behind all of it now to make I think the case for it too and what's healthiest for them and that there is a way to resolve things. Right right. And you know, Kathryn, I, I know many people here, Jews and Arabs and also Palestinians, most of the people they want peace. They believe in peace, they believe in resolving conflicts, in peace. The trouble is with the extremists. Among the Palestinians and also here in Israel, I mean, because most most of the people, they believe that they that we can that we can stand side by side in peace. Yeah, But it's going to take a while. It takes some time. Yeah. And meanwhile, you're just working away with the kids, which is amazing. Really. How hopeful do you think the kids are now? How old are they now? How hopeful? How do you how do you think. Oh, not very hopeful, unfortunately. Yeah. You know, the program. So we've been in touch and I learned a lot from Open Mind program for teenagers. And we are working hard in order to help them to increase their level of HOPE program. Right. Right. And so they were not very hopeful, not very hopeful before they October 7th and specially these days. And their level of hope is is quite low, to be honest with you. Yeah, because they were exposed, many of them, I think most of the teenagers were exposed to social media videos and images. Horrendous. I mean purpose thinks they they will and it's so we are working with them. Yeah. To help them to increase their level of hope to does it help them to know that they can measure their hope and they can become better at it? I mean, they can practice skills and then they can use their emotional response over everything to change the world. I mean, does that does that message? I think they are more focused on changing their own lives. Yeah, right. And and just to many of them just they are concerned with surviving. Yeah. These days. Yeah. Just to hold on. Right. And which is fair enough. Yeah of course. Right. When we are thinking about what, where they are being they got through and what we do, how they, they cope with So what is helpful for them is, is just the skill to know that there's a skill that you can set a goal. Yeah. And then you can plan you can make a plan. Yeah. It could be a simple plan. It could be a little bit more complicated plan. But you can make a plan, right? This is when I when it when we discuss about these things I see their like in their eyes. I mean, I see that. Yeah. Yeah. They are more hopeful and Yeah. And now, now what we are doing, we have done our first meeting of this workshop in one high school I walk in and, and they have set a goal and we started to, to, to discuss about this place, how to manage their stress response and, and I told them that next meeting we are going to make a plan and they just I know you can think their body language at the end of the meeting they were more hopeful. I think they felt like they felt better. Yeah, this was my impression. Yeah. That's amazing because. Because, you know, it's not a goal that was set by the school, Right? It's not another assignment. Right? Right. So it's not exactly a personal and personal. It's something meaningful to the to him or to her. Yeah. As a teenager. Yeah. We have a new My Hope story template, too. I'll have to send that to you because I would love to get the youth right in their own kind of hope stories. It would be really cool. What I love to share with you and what can we do to support you? You know, those emails you sent me, we're supporting because everyone here needs some encouragement. Yeah, And If you could if you could share some and articles on some academic articles about the were Where about workshops? Obviously, it could be helpful. What about our listeners? Is there anything they can do to support you? What about them? Yes, well, first of all, I have a request to make from listeners, just keep in mind that things here are not as seen on TV. Okay? So because sometimes, you know, I am and most people here in Israel, Jews, Arabs, Palestinians are decent people. This is you know, for if people would just remember this. This is encouraging to me personally, because sometimes people, they get confused by what they see on on the news. The Israelis killing. Yes, many, many Palestinians were killed and our Israeli citizens got killed, kidnaped that were kidnaped and held as hostages This is what what would help me to continue my work. I know that the people Just remember that it's, most of the people here are good people. Trying to help the kids. And you know that Israeli teenagers are like any adult teenagers. They cope with similar issues and struggles like American teenagers and European teenagers. But we are coping with the consequences of the October 7th massacre. You know, still trying to collect ourselves and to help many people in need. well, thank you. Thank you for all you're doing, you know, and thank you for taking time to share what's happening over there and how you're working with the kids and what you're learning and what you're doing. And I just think even parenting and grandparents in general can help with some of the things you shared today. And thanks for, activating these skills in a time of really challenging time. And when most of us stop doing these kinds of things. And one, it's so extremely important to the future of of the youth that you work with. So I just Yeah. And if there's anything else you want to share, say, you know. Yes. Well, thank you. You're welcome. And I would like to thank you as well, Kathryn for, first of all, for having me and second of all, for sharing Hopeful Minds Online. And you see it has a positive influence over here in Israel. So I really appreciate what you're doing. I'm so glad to hear that. And yeah, anyone, anyone listening can get access to the Hopeful Minds programing at hopefulminds.org, where have programs for with a Parent’s Guide. Three Lesson Overview, A Deep Dive 16 Lesson, Our Teen Program has peer to peer so really passionate about getting us out how to use because hope is such an important skill and it's a skill we all need. And I become hopeful as the more I work with kids too. So thank you so much. And yeah, we'll stay in touch of course. And you know, listeners, I can if you're interested in learning anything more, I think you're on LinkedIn, aren't you? Yes. I need to develop a little bit my head off. I bet I. That's all right. Any time you're busy, whether you're busy. So. Yeah, but you can get up there on our morning and Facebook, Facebook. You guys on Facebook to reach out through Facebook. But wonderful, wonderful. Thank you very much, Kathryn, and appreciate what you what you're doing. And yes, you too. And listeners thank you all for listening in. And please do share this with others and encourage them to reach out to L.A. if you want to get involved at all. And his work and helping youth around the world or checking out hopeful minds, too. So thank you so much and have a wonderful day. And don't forget to keep shining, keep shining hope. Thank you. Thank you all for listening in to the Hope Matrix podcast. We want to shine a light that hope is teachable. Hope is measurable and teachable and provide you with actionable insights for how you can start activating hope in your life today and provide a framework so you can start talking about hope with other people and practice these skills together because we are better with hope. Please feel free to check out theshinehopecompany.com, where we list all of our resources around how to Hope. We have a lot of free programs for how to hope, including the five day Challenge, our Hope infographic with a lot of skills that showcase how to hope and articles of how to incorporate hope in your life. We have The Hopebeat Weekly, which is a weekly newsletter that shares strategies for hope. We have a My Hope Story templates so you can write your own Hope story today. Also my Hope Hero so we can share what our heroes are doing to activate hope in their lives. And this is especially good with youth so they can start looking up to people that have overcome similar or challenges to them and seen how these heroes use the Shine Hope framework. We have a Hopeful Minds for Teens program and Hopeful minds Overview Educator Guides. We have a new evidence based college course so you can activate Hope on the college campus. There are programs in the workplace. Overview courses 90 minute courses for learning the what, why and how to hope. What I want you to know about hope is it's a skill. You've got to practice these skills to become hopeful. It's easy to fall into despair and helplessness when we deal with challenges in life, and it takes intentional work and practice to get to hope. And yet it is always possible. So no matter what life brings. Keep shining hope. Thanks so much for listening and have an awesome day. And of course, I've got to add this, that this program is designed to assist you in learning about hope should not be used for medical advice, counseling, or other health related services. iFred, The Shine Hope Company and myself, Kathryn Goetzke do not endorse or provide any medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. I am not a medical doctor. The information provided here should not be used for the diagnosis or treatment of any medical condition and cannot be substituted for the advice of physicians, license professionals or therapists who are familiar with your specific situation. Consult a licensed medical profession or call 911. If you are in need of immediate assistance and be sure to know the crisis Hotline. 988. If you are in need of support. Thanks so much for listening. Take good care of yourself and keep shining hope.