Help Yourself!
Help Yourself!
Savoring Food and Navigating New Paths
Ever gone back for seconds at a restaurant because the food was just that good? Bryan did, with a carnitas burrito that left him craving more. Hear about his mouth-watering experience with sweet pico de gallo and homemade tortillas, and why he takes a shot of salsa with every bite. This episode kicks off with this flavor-packed anecdote and flows into a lively chat about the quirky ways people enjoy food.
From favorite indulgences like Starburst-flavored sparkling ice drinks to the art of homemade iced coffee, we journey through various food trends and preferences. Discover the peculiar love for slightly soggy tortillas and the unforgettable flavor of the custom-made "loco nut" coffee. Our discussion takes an insightful turn, reflecting on how our perspectives shape the way we view endings, whether it's the end of a day or the excitement of pre-vacation nights.
We then dive into the complexities of attachment, sparked by a viral story about a woman's overreaction at McDonald's. Explore how minor events can carry significant emotional weight and what they reveal about our broader life transitions. With a focus on career changes and organizational restructuring, we discuss how people cling to the familiar and the importance of agency in embracing new beginnings. Come laugh, reflect, and gain new insights as we navigate the intersections of food, philosophy, and life's intricate moments.
Welcome to Help Yourself. Food and Philosophy with Brian and Nick. I'm Nick and I'm Brian. To everything there is a season, a time for every purpose under heaven, a time to be born and to die, to plant and uproot, to kill and to heal, to build up and destroy, to cry and to laugh, mourn and dance. What's cheating Brian?
Speaker 2:I feel like that's a song that's you know.
Speaker 1:It's a song and kind of a psalm Right. It's in the Bible A psalm song Near psalms yeah, it's a book very close to psalm, right in the bible. A psalm, psalm, your psalms. Yeah, it's a book very close to psalms yeah, what am I eating?
Speaker 2:I uh went to mexican food last night with actually ordered and took it back to the house so got to go with my family. But then I planned for, because I like it so much, we haven't been to that go to go with my family. But then I planned for, because I like it so much, we haven't been to that, yeah, we haven't. Uh, we haven't gone to that restaurant in a while. And so I was like, well, I'm going to get two burritos. So I got two burritos last night and I left the. I ate the leftover one this morning. I mean the intentional leftover, and so it wasn't hot, it was just sort of like room temperature. But the their burritos, are so good that I um, you know, I really really enjoyed it. Uh, the one thing I did notice this morning, though, so it's, it was a carnitas burrito, which is pork, obviously. Obviously, everyone knows that, obviously, you know. Come on, if you don't know that, then stop. Then stop listening. Oh gosh, we just lost our one listener yeah, I saw that drop too.
Speaker 2:It's all right, keep going so, um, so it's seasoned pork and it's shredded up and it's in a burrito they put. There's no cheese in this burrito, it's just, uh, guacamole and some pico and I think that's it. I think it's just like a very simple, pretty protein forward like meat burrito, no beans, no rice, nothing. I mean, it's just, it's a straight up meat, meat and veggies. Yeah, meat and veggies, basically.
Speaker 2:So the thing that I noticed today, which I didn't notice yesterday when I was eating it is and maybe because it was warm, it was, so the flavors melded together a little bit better. But I feel like they put sugar in their Pico de Gallo because it was sweet. Like they're and I know that some people do that They'll do like salt and sugar to make the Pico a little bit, have a little bit of a sweetness to it, or it could have just been the natural sweetness of the tomatoes, but it seemed like it wasn't Um and so. So that was the one thing that sort of turned me off a little bit today. Just um, I was like when.
Speaker 2:I ate it. I was like and also it might've been that there were a couple big bites in there that I got almost all pico in it, like it was just just, it was like clumped in there and you know, and so it wasn't evenly distributed and so I got like a bite that was like just tortilla and a big chunk of pico de gallo and um, but I mean, overall it was good, it wasn't like it was bad, like I was like, oh, I'm not eating this, this is terrible. I'm gonna spit it out, but I just noticed that today, um, and then, uh, they, they do, I think. I believe that they make their own tortillas there, because the tortillas are always really good, which is another bonus when you have burritos, you know, um, to have a decent wrap around it, you know, uh, one that doesn't break open and things like that.
Speaker 1:So you can actually hold?
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and the the I also did have with it. They have these little tiny cups like maybe one ounce, maybe half an ounce, actually it's probably like a super tiny little cup of they have red and green salsa, and so I had that and the. The weird thing is that and I do this with Taco Bell also, I don't know if anybody else out there does this, or if you do this, you probably not, but because it's a weird intricacy is that instead of putting the salsa on the burrito, it's like it looked like a little shot cup, so like, literally, I would just take a bite and then I would just take a little shot of like while the bite was in my mouth, I take a little shot of the salsa, so then it's all mixed in my mouth. So, um, I don't know if other people do that or not, but uh, I'm not afraid to be weird but I do that.
Speaker 1:I've not heard of anyone else doing that, including myself, of course. Um, I will be kind of weird and I'll put the sauce, like a little bit of the sauce, on before I take a bite, kind of like a toothpaste myrtle yeah, you put a little bit on, bite a little bit on, yeah I've seen that before.
Speaker 2:I just have, so like I thought that was weird. But with taco bell.
Speaker 2:I did that like taco bell has the packets, you know, and so I've seen people do that with the packets, like put it on and then take a bite. Put it on, take a bite. But I do that even with the packets. I'll open like a corner of the packet and I'll take a bite of my burrito and then I squirt a little bit from the packet in my mouth and so yeah, it's weird, it's weird stuff. The other thing is with this is another weird intricacy. I know I'm going off totally off off the rails already, but is that?
Speaker 1:too, bright.
Speaker 2:So. So the other thing that I do and I've done this since college is when you get like a real legitimate burrito, like not not a burrito from like Taco Bell or something, but like legitimate, like big fat, like football size burrito, like from a Mexican place. Right Is that I will? So last night, what I did is I put it on a plate, I unrolled the burrito and opened it up, I poured salsa and guacamole and queso over all the innards of it and then I ate all the inside out of the burrito and then I there's just like remnants left in there and then I just roll the whole thing up at the end and eat like a semi-filled or like partially filled or like a deflated burrito.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like a yeah, that's.
Speaker 3:That's a good way to put it that's a good way to put it yeah so what does that do for you like?
Speaker 1:why is it? Just because you know, then, that the burrito is not overstuffed and it's easier to handle, or I think so flavor of dough or I do.
Speaker 2:Actually I don't know that's something actually last night. That I was saying is like I actually like I know some I've I listened to some other podcasts that do like food review stuff and they're always like these. The tortilla was gummy and it was this, and I actually sort of like that doughy kind of when it's like slightly soggy. It's not soggy all the way through, but it's like the inside of it's soggy.
Speaker 2:The outside is still dry, but when you eat it it's almost like a little bit of a dough ball kind of thing and um, I don't know I like that consistency in that, and if it's a good tortilla too, I mean, I believe the tortilla actually has a good flavor to it, so so, anyway, I did that. I do that as well, which is freak but, um, all right, moving on.
Speaker 2:Uh, uh, you do you you're exactly not afraid to be your own person, right? Don't apologize for that. So I've got my normal iron flask uh, cooling thing with cold water in it that I'm drinking. I did mention to you. I did order a new one. I'm getting rid of this one because the. If you hear through the microphone any kind of slurping, it's because the I don't know I think it's the silicone seal or something is going in the in the straw. So whenever I drink out of it it makes like a gurgling sound and it's just sort of embarrassing when you're around other people. So so I so I bought myself a new.
Speaker 1:A new uh, bottle grown man sipping through a city cup.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly yeah exactly, and then the other drink that I have. I found out about this a couple weeks ago. I was chaperoning band camp, and uh, and so band camp is you live in the dorms at a college, which was very strange, um you didn't start the story right, you could be like this one, this one time exactly one time at band camp, I was living in dorms when I was a 51 year old man um stop being, stop doing you bud.
Speaker 2:Yeah so I I happen to be band camp. One of the things that happens is lots of things need to get purchased, like kids will forget things. You get there and you're like, oh, I'm going to go get some snacks or you know, just other things. So there's a Walmart like right down the road, like literally two minutes away. So usually during that week there's, you know, bunches of trips to Walmart and I rarely go to Walmart but I so when I go there I see all these products and things that I'm like I've never seen that before. So I don't know if you've ever heard of sparkling ice, but, like, if you go to the supermarket it's like a, it's just a fruit drink, you know, um, but at the supermarket they just have regular flavors, like raspberry, you know whatever. So I go to, uh, on an end cap in um, in walmart they had them on sale for like a dollar and I was looking at them. So this is sparkling ice starburst flavor and this is the orange starburst and it literally tastes like melted starbursts inside a thing.
Speaker 1:Now, the cool thing about it is starburst it does.
Speaker 2:It's it tastes like they like liquefied starburst and put it in there. You know so. So, anyway, the cool thing is this is this it's also zero sugar. It's a zero sugar version of it. So this bottle is only five calories and it doesn't have anything else in it. It doesn't have I don't know what the sweetener agent is in it, but, um, probably.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I didn't, I didn't even look but it has no caffeine. It has it's low calorie, it has supposed. Supposedly it has antioxidants in it, like it has like vitamin b6 and B12 and all that stuff. And it's only five calories for the bottle and it's actually pretty good. I mean honestly, like it's a good change. And it's only, again, for five calories and it being zero sugar, I'm like I wouldn't eat, I wouldn't want to drink five of them a day, but like you know, especially that they're cheap, like they're, I think, this one I got at kroger and it was a dollar 25 for the bottle, so, um, so yeah so that's my uh oh, and then the other thing I had was I made my own um iced coffee this morning, which is the stoke coffee, s-t-o-k.
Speaker 2:That coffee. And then I've been using a coconut how, what do they call it? It's like coconut cream creamer from um coffee mate, and it I. I don't know if I've talked about this before, but I, honestly, if you'd said, yeah, coconut flavor with coffee goes well together, I would be like I don't know about that. That doesn't sound right. It doesn't sound like it would taste good but, it's honestly really good.
Speaker 2:So, um, so I put a little splash of that in there. I've been trying to wean myself off of it because it has sugar in it. You know it's calories, but I try to do like a little splash of it, not too much, and it gives a good flavor.
Speaker 1:Good flavor, um, and it does my sweetener and it's a little bit of a creamer, so so yeah, so that's yeah I used to go like there was a coffee shop downstairs from the place I worked several years ago yeah and downtown right. So it was expensive. But I would spend money there and spend too much. But. But when I went I got I named my own flavor, like I'd gone enough that they knew me and I'd named my own flavor. I would get whatever drink with hazelnut, syrup, coconut and what's the other. I just had it.
Speaker 1:I think it was almond oh really and uh, and I called it a loco nut that sounds, that actually sounds interesting, yeah, it was good, really, really sweet, though, because there's a lot of syrup yeah not not healthy at all, so I don't do it anymore.
Speaker 2:I haven't tried to recreate it anywhere else yeah, I don't know if that I found a place that has coconut syrup, like even starbucks doesn't have a coconut syrup if you look at coconut milk, though, you could oh yeah, milk and almond milk and then hazelnut syrup yeah and well and you'll have to, you know, go to the doctor to get insulin. You're like you could just do all of this high saturated fat and sugar. That's perfect. Yeah, all right, that's my BBC. What?
Speaker 1:are you eating and drinking? I'm eating. Good news and bad news-ish Bad news-ish. I'm on bone broth diet again uh-huh good news ish is today was a cheat meal oh nice um, or I guess, as was last night. So last night I got half of a cauliflower pizza that I like to get from judets Pizza, and then today were the leftovers, so I had the other half.
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 1:The cauliflower crust is one of those sort of personal size, so yeah. Eating half of this pizza. What is it like? A 10 inch pizza is pretty reasonable as a meal. Yeah, normally I could eat the whole pizza, maybe even a couple of breadsticks, you know, um, but yeah, so I had. I had a half of that, which is what toppings were on it yeah, it's instead of pizza sauce.
Speaker 1:It was ranch. Okay, I might have described this setup before. It's my go-to um. So ranch instead of tomato sauce, with a little bit of like a light amount of the red chili paste, yeah, or sauce, red chili sauce, sweet chili sauce, um, and then Italian sausage, green peppers, onions, so sort of like a breakfast burrito. Okay. And oh and, with Chet's Pizza you can flavorize your crust for free.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I know there's all those options.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll put a Cajun plus butter. The butter is to counteract some of the Cajun.
Speaker 2:They're the only place that offers that too. I haven't seen another place that offers like, and also it doesn't cost any money to do it. They're just like yeah, what flavor you want, we don't care, we're Jet's Pizza, we don't care. That's their slogan.
Speaker 1:So true, the one I go to is really close to where I live and I've I've had to swear like I can't justify getting it delivered anymore yeah I used to thinking like, hey, I'll throw him a bone, this is a quick, quick, easy win.
Speaker 1:They can write it to me quick, no big deal, and invariably it gets messed up. Yeah, I guess they just wait until they have other deliveries or and yeah, get to mind eventually or they forget something. You know it's like. Yeah, it's just worse. So I just I just save the money and do the carry out yeah, that's.
Speaker 2:I mean yeah because I I know how close that is for you. Like you you were I met.
Speaker 1:I remember you said, yeah, I could see it from my window, you know like yeah, from my back windows, yeah, yeah, I'm drinking so again because it's a cheap meal. I've got the from starbucks a grande fondue, chocolate foam cold brew. Oh dude.
Speaker 2:Yes, the cold foam is good. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:And they gave us so much cold foam that it was to the brim, so I couldn't put the lid on my personal cup, so I just had to drink some of that straight. Yeah, I get Dory's help to have some of that straight, and then I've got water in a glass bottle.
Speaker 2:Nice, good stuff. I feel like I'm forgetting something that's that's an unusual is that is the cold, is the cold chocolate foam because of cheat day yeah, no yeah, I get yeah, because I you don't get that normally yeah and normally get decaf, and on bone broth it's non-cheat days, it's black.
Speaker 1:You don't add sugar, you don't add creamer. Right. If you have coffee at all, it's black. Yeah. Or I think they sell some stuff that is safe to get on the diets. There's probably like something I could make or dory could make, that would be creamy or creamish yeah but it's just not worth it. It's better to get used to and appreciate black coffee yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:I wish I could. I really. I've tried before and I just what I usually. If I need to go back to having caffeine, I probably wouldn't go back to black coffee, I would go to like some kind of a, like an energy drink that has the same amount of caffeine as a strong cup of coffee in it. You know something like that.
Speaker 2:That's a zero calorie kind of thing, rather than. You know, I, since I drink iced coffee so much, I don't care that much that it's hot, and so I just go back to something like a zoa or a you know, I don't know, there's thousands of them now.
Speaker 1:So, and there is, like, all of those artificial sweeteners, though we're off, off limits too, for bone broth oh really so you couldn't even do that.
Speaker 1:Aspartame, yeah, yeah and, and that was that came to mind, actually, when you were talking about your burrito being sweet oh yeah the being on the diet. There are things that aren't normally sweet, that taste sweet whenever I cheat and it's like what isn't it eight? Granted they were crepes. I think crepes do have some sweetness to them usually they. Yeah it just it tasted really sweet. Oh, Like I could tell it had to do more with my taste buds changing than it was the dish itself. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But yeah, it was. It was another cheat day.
Speaker 2:Well, let's, uh, let's, bring this section to an end and uh try to get onto our topic.
Speaker 1:That's fair. I think it's time.
Speaker 2:I hope our audience can deal with the end of that segment and go to the next one. You know, yeah. Yeah, so what are we going to talk about? Endings? Oh wow, that's crazy.
Speaker 1:All good things come to an end, and also the food portion of our conversation.
Speaker 2:Has come to an end. Also, our the food portion of our conversation has come to an end.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, where do we want to start, is the question uh, well, there, I mean there's a lot to say about it and like I mean, I don't know who've said, who said it, but like everything, everything ends right. Right, then again, it's all a matter of perspective right that's probably why I chose the Ecclesiastes quote, because it, when one season ends like another begins yeah you know, like when there's nothing between war and peace, it's a bit of yin and yang.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's the circle of everything and we've sort of drawn this arbitrary line between them. But it's more like a cloud and we've drawn a line to make that blurred concept more, more distinct. But we definitely have a sense of ending right. Yeah, I mean, even animals do yeah, I think.
Speaker 2:I think also, like there's a thing, like some, some endings are more grandiose than others and others are just, you know, just a. I mean, you don't think about it every night, but every night you go to bed, that's the end of the day, like that's the last time you're going to be conscious and and recognizing that every night yeah, it's just saying mild existential crisis of like that's it yeah, it's like like like what if?
Speaker 1:like what if. I don't wake up or what Like a little bit yeah, or knowing what's ahead of me has already happened. Yeah. When you're a kid, each day is a new day. Yeah, and the older you get, the more mundane and routine things are. There's not much to look forward to, Except for the current moment is nice. And so, yeah, I want the current moment to keep going, and that that often plays into, you know, yeah, me staying up so late yeah, that's delaying, that's delaying an end.
Speaker 2:Right there you're basically like hey, how do I put this off? You know?
Speaker 1:right, but it's delaying the inevitable, right, but much like you know, putting on taking botox or putting on makeup or, yeah, you know, even um exercise you're. You're delaying the inevitable right.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm glad you, I'm glad you mentioned so early in this conversation about perspective, just because I think basically most of our topics a lot oh, I would say most, yeah, I'd. Basically most of our topics a lot oh, I would say most, yeah, I'd say most of our topics have some aspect of perspective of what is your? You know how you, how do you see things, how do you, what lenses are you viewing the world through? Or your world, you know? Um, but yeah, it's uh, which is interesting, because going to bed the night before you're about to get on a plane the next morning and go on vacation is different than going to bed the net, you know, the night before you have a big event or something that's stressful at work or something like that. Those are two different things. So it's just, you know, not that that's profound or anything, but it's just it's interesting to think about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's all kinds of neutral ends as well, like just breathing about. Yeah, and there's all kinds of neutral ends as well, like just breathing in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you got to stop at some point, micro, micro yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's. Uh, we don't think about it, but like, yeah, that that comes to an end. So that something else can begin. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Um, but yeah, there's definitely like in terms of that perspective. I think the other thing is, you know, because we're so, everyone bring out your bingo cards, yes, in in toastmasters when, when you've done your best for a speech or not, or whatever, nerves have built built up in your mind leading up to giving that speech, when that speech is over, maybe there's a modicum of sadness that that's come to an end, but most of it is relief yeah like you know, or you're participating in some conference or training and you're, and you know, have responsibilities for it, and I mean that's over.
Speaker 2:It feels so good yes, I think you can just not have any obligations for a little while and just I think, that, honestly, I feel like I get a micro dose of that almost every week when we have our toastmasters meeting. I get a micro dose of I, you, you know usually all of us, since our club has a certain amount of people, all of us are participating most meetings, right, and that could be something really simple, or it could be you're giving a speech, or it could be they get called on for table topics, question, whatever that is. But the thing is you, you get done with the meeting and you feel like you did something. You feel like, oh, okay, that's behind me now. Like you did something. You feel like, okay, that's behind me now.
Speaker 2:And so because, despite what people tell you, I know, like professional speakers will say, I don't get nervous at all. It's like, no, you still get nervous, you just know how to deal with it. Like you've done it so many times that it just doesn't feel like being nervous anymore. It doesn't. It doesn't feel like the connotation of a negativity, of, oh my gosh, I'm going to. You know all the things that go along with nerves and speaking. And I think, even years and years in, as both you and I are with Toastmasters, it's like you still get nervous when you go up and give a speech, or when you compete, or when you you know you're just.
Speaker 1:It never goes away, you know Um well, yeah, I think that might have to do with at the risk of going off topic a bit. Nervousness comes from. It's a function of how much you care and what you care about when you're inexperienced.
Speaker 1:Your nervousness has many sources and many outcomes that you're worried about. You're worried about embarrassing yourself, you're worried about being made fun of, you're worried about not doing well, you're worried about your message being misunderstood and you're worried about not doing well. You're worried about your message being misunderstood, your message coming across, all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 1:But then, when you get good, a lot of those nerves go away right and if you don't care about anything else, a lot of the personal nerves go away. Then you might not be so nervous, but there's still the nervousness about you know, is the audience going to hear? What I feel they need to hear, you know, is the message that I'm working so hard on, that I care for them about so much the audience going to receive what I'm sending?
Speaker 1:Is it going to serve them like I want to serve them? Is it going to do the good I want it to do? And some people don't even care. They just want to check the box in their project. Right, and that's that. So they're not nervous once they feel like they got the skills. But then others who who have a purpose, might have a sense of nervousness knowing that they might fail in that purpose.
Speaker 2:Um yeah, but also, isn't that a factor of an ending, though, is that you know that, hey, this is my shot. You know not to get all eminem on you, whatever, but you know, or hamilton, or hamilton.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, this is my one shot, you know, uh, you, you recognize that like this, is it? You don't get like a do-over, you don't, you know. So it's like there's an ending that's hurling towards you, meaning the ending of the speech, the ending of your time on stage or the ending of your time to present whatever material you want to present, and so you're almost in anticipation, like man. I hope I say everything I want to say before that ending happens. You know, because when the red card goes up and they're like, get off stage, you're done right, so there could be a tie there yeah, I think with endings there's.
Speaker 1:You know, like again I opened up with with ecclesiastes. You know there's a time and a place yeah for everything, um, and I think the negative feelings we have about endings, you know, even say death is we're trying to cling to something that is no more, or is about to be like. Everything is a moment, living in the moment yeah um, we believe we're one of the few entities on the planet, or any any life form, that has a concept of long-term future and long-term past. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And are aware of our own mortality and so like, when something we got something good going, we don't want it to end. Yeah, Um, even like good stories, you know good books or good series on Netflix or whatever. Uh huh. They're. The zeitgeist is trying to come up with a term for the, the, the morning that some people go through when their favorite series comes to an end. They've got post book blues and book hangover. Right.
Speaker 1:Um, I think that's kind of an edge case that, like from what I see from people and I experienced myself, I can enjoy a good book and let it end right and and I don't feel remorse or regret or sadness that it's come to a close like it. It had a beginning and a middle and end. I have a sense of completeness and closure.
Speaker 1:It was a satisfying conclusion right but then, like tv series, almost a cliche in that there are many more times than not they seem to have unsatisfying endings. Right, some people have like their top five best, uh, you know season finales where they actually give that sense of closure that people crave. But most, it seems like most of the time it's unsatisfying either because the writers didn't have time to yeah, to write in the clothes. Um, well, it's funny, but like things, up.
Speaker 2:It's funny that you just you were talking about so you're talking about the endings of movies and books and things like that. And you know, you remember, yesterday I did a table topics question that was talking, actually did I I don't know my, I don't know if I gave this to you or not, but it was basically talking about, um, what? Now I completely I forgot what the tabletop question was. It was talking about, um, oh, the book being better than the movie. When I was like, name a time when, name a time when you think that the, that the movie, was actually better than the book, right? Um, yes, yeah, and I don't think you asked, you didn't ask, I didn't ask that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you asked mary that. Mary, yeah, I did, but but so here's.
Speaker 2:Here's the thing that I just, when you were talking about that, it reminded me of it, and the reason why is because I was thinking why is it that that, first of all, that happens, and then also that dissatisfaction with an ending of a series or something else, and in my head I was thinking, well, wait, so a book is written by, in essence, essence, one author. I mean, you've got, yeah, you have editors and you have other people that are probably going to be helping along the way, but it's the author's piece of work, whereas a series or a movie, there's probably could be hundreds of people that have some say in the actual content that ultimately gets produced, and so that ending might be like, first of all, it might not even be the people that started writing the series at the beginning, and then, anyway, this is a totally off subject, but it's, but it's talking about the endings of things, so Sure.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, yeah, there's. But I think there's. There's too many for people who have unsatisfying endings in their life. Maybe that's the fact that there's too many uh writers in the room right you know whether that's multiple personalities, yeah or um, maybe their worldview keeps changing.
Speaker 2:Well, here's a question for you what this is. This is going to be a little bit of a tabletop. This question is and I'm, I'm, I don't know the answer to this. I don't know how I would answer, but what do you think so? Do you think, whether or not, like how much control you have over an ending in your life, do you think that that has any effect how you deal with it? Because, like, for instance, if, let's say, you you're quitting a job, so you're, you're in control there, or somebody breaks up with you like you know what, I mean.
Speaker 2:Or a job fires you. You know two different things here. Right. Does that affect how you know? Does that affect that ending? Does that I mean? Do you deal with it in the same way? Is it a you know? I guess I mean again, it's going back to the perspective, but you know.
Speaker 1:I think so. I think that's a lot to do with it, that it, um, I think there's. I think there's two change curves that in psychology and the way I see it is there's. They're based on whether it was a welcome change or an unwelcome change, Like there's plenty of people who get laid off and say thank you, yeah Right, they get their severance package Like, oh man, I'm so glad Cause I was trying to figure out how I'm going to quit, you know, Um, but it's. It's like the getting the pay raise is a change and it's a welcome change. Right.
Speaker 1:And then having a death in the family who's a loved one is an unwelcome change.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:But then the uncle who has a lot of money, who nobody, nobody liked. Yeah Is that's a welcome change. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think, depending on how welcome or unwelcome it is, it it speeds along which stages of grief you go through, or how fast, or how short, how long you go through.
Speaker 1:You know, like you don't have much denial or bargaining. When you were praying for this day to come, you've already gone through all the bargaining. You've been bargaining in your head of, like, okay, what am I going to do when this happens? Yeah, or how am I going to feel when this happens? Happens like you've already sort of thought that all through, you're prepared. Um, you're literally looking forward to it.
Speaker 2:When we use that phrase to imply positive connotation, but looking forward, just another word for planning yeah you know like looking ahead, so well, I think you're, I think you're hitting on a subject that we will be talking a little bit more about, which is dealing with that, you know dealing with the dealing with the endings.
Speaker 2:But but yeah, I think I think you're right, I think I also think this I think that what's strange to me about endings is that they change over time. So something that, as an example, so my I've said this story before but my, my, you know my father dying when I was 19,. You know at the time is very tragic and sudden and you know all this stuff. But now, having 30 years of perspective on it, there are things that I could look at and say you know what, I'm, who I am now because that happened, and in a positive way. And so at the time, obviously it was this terrible thing. It's like, wow, what am I going to do? I, my dad's gone.
Speaker 2:And then you know later, you're like, oh well, if, if that hadn't wouldn't have happened, I don't know if I'd be where I am today or if I had done, would have done the things I have done over the years, because it was all framed by that, or a lot was framed by that. So so it's funny to me that things can change. Obviously, that's just a changing of perspective of and you actually going through that, those you know. So what we've talked about before, the stages of grief and having that getting to that acceptance stage where you're like, okay, you know, you get to that acceptance stage and you say that happened and it's a part of my life. And you know that happened and it's a part of my life. And you know, still, it still makes me sad to this day. But at the same time, I have so much time behind me now that it's like I've accepted the fact. You know it's not, I'm not dwelling on it.
Speaker 1:So I think, another aspect of perspective you know you mentioned earlier the the day ends, but that's, that's just a human construct from our sleep cycles.
Speaker 1:Right like the the earth, the earth didn't slow down in its rotation yeah you know, and it's no further or closer to the sun or any any of that like it's the sun or any any of that like it's. It's just we're just clocking the, the spin, right, yeah, um, and we we happen to have an ending that that's a signal for us biologically of like, okay, melatonin is kicked in and all this other stuff. We need to sleep right to go through all that process and rem and everything um rem yes shiny happy people that's me in
Speaker 1:the corner um me in the spotlight I don't know what to do, uh, but you know, roads end letters end with a salutation right. As much of that, um yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2:Here's the funny thing I I pulled up this. This might be a good time to pull this in. I pulled up an article from someone. Uh, it's the things.
Speaker 1:The things I learned from dot com oh wait, is that the name of the website?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's the things I learned okay yeah, the things I learned from dot com. Uh, too long of a website name, but I I understand a lot of domains already taken, but that's okay. It should be things I learned from blankcom. Just go visit my website. It's the things I learned from life that I still think are goodcom.
Speaker 2:Anyway sorry, sorry to Jen Glantz, who's the owner of this website. It's nice. You're a nice person, I'm sure. So she has a thing on here. That is 12 things that end too fast, so it's an interesting thing. So one of them, so the very first one, is sort of Baseball games.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I'm kidding.
Speaker 2:No, the very first one is the last couple, and what I like about this list is she actually like frames these for you. She just doesn't say like books, right. So she said the last couple pages of a book that you've invested so much time and emotion in, so like you know, so much so that you reference the characters often in your real life and you know, so it's good. She goes on and mentions some characters and things like that, um, and she said you actually like start to read slower because you're like I don't want this book to end, you know, um, which is really interesting, um, some of the other things, uh, one she just said Sundays. So not, not like not.
Speaker 2:S A S S U N D A E S S U N D A Y S. So you know that that whole that whole Sunday or Sunday night blues or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like it's. It's it's case of the Monday's Eve. Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah. She said, uh, what else did she say? She said, um, like, here's her framing of your, so she wanted your vacation. But then it has a dash. It says especially when that vacation is in the middle of a terrible New York winter and you're on the beach somewhere sipping a pina colada and your biggest worry is remembering to reapply sunscreen every 30 minutes. So, like, the reason why I like these framing things is because it goes exactly what we're just talking about. She's giving the perspective exactly, which is, which is actually pretty cool. So thanks, jen, glance of. I always like things that need to be saidcom.
Speaker 2:Um, that's like trademark brand brown, redacted um so here's, here's one we already talked about this from your eating thing. So number 11 on her list is a slice of pizza. And then she says because you've made a, because you've made a pretty terrible decision to order just one and it's so insanely good and you're trying to make it last forever. So you know, order a slice of pizza and you're like, I'm really trying to, I'm really trying to not eat a whole pizza, and she, or so she's talking about ordering a slice of pizza. She obviously is from New York. She at least she referenced New York earlier.
Speaker 2:So I'm assuming I'm assuming that she's, she's a New Yorker and she does street food. You know, get a slice of pizza while you're walking down the street or whatever, um. But anyway, I'm not going to go through the whole list, but like, I think that's really cool, like I think, um, I think the um, like I said, that perspective that she's putting on those things is, is what is necessary for you to go. Oh yeah, you know what? Because you might say a slice of pizza, but then you're like, yeah, last slice of pizza I had was crappy, but she's like, but what if it's one that you're like really hungry, and you got the perfect toppings and it has the perfect mix of ranch and chili sauce on it and it you know and, and what happens when it's your one cheap meal yes, mess it up yes, it's you get so sad, you get so sad yeah, one and a half times too much.
Speaker 1:Ranch dressing, pizza soup. Yeah, yeah, you're like dang it.
Speaker 2:The loss of your cheat meal there's actually a recently this is actually this is not off the subject, but it's. It's exactly what you were just talking about which is there was a viral video recently of this woman who she went into a McDonald's and she ordered like she ordered I think it was a double cheeseburger, and she ordered extra ketchup on it, like I want extra ketchup, and she. What we come to find out later is that it was her cheat meal like she's dieting and it was her one cheat meal of the week and she wants this double cheeseburger with extra ketchup on it. That's her cheat meal and apparently they put too much on it because she went up to the place with the thing in hand and like slammed it down on the counter and like made a huge scene and obviously got videoed doing it and somebody sent that viral video. That viral video went viral and then she lost her job because of it.
Speaker 2:Because her job was like yeah, you don't, you're like you're representing us out in the community. People found out where she worked, and so then they their job was like yeah, you don't, you're like you're representing us out in the community. People found out where she worked, and so then they their corporate was like yeah, you can't be, you can't so, like you know very, very big consequences for doing that. But the the point that I'm making is exactly what you just said is, like you know, she didn't have to act like she acted, but like you can, you can almost sympathize with the feeling of like dude this is my one thing Like we don't have a lot of times in life to everyone else.
Speaker 1:It's just a McDonald's hamburger which is served.
Speaker 2:Yes For her, it was special for her it was yeah, and, and, like I said a lot of times you're, or many times during life, you're just like I just need some, I need one little. I need this one little thing, little thing that's like. That's my little happy thing that I get, like right now maybe I might be going through a tough time or whatever, but I have this one thing that I can be a little bit happy about, you know, and, and that could be a show that you watch, and finally I get home at the end of the night, I get to watch my two episodes of this show and it brings me such happiness because I can put the other stresses of the world out of my mind or whatever you know and so um, and and us, us observing them, you know somewhat dispassionately, not exactly objectively right and look at that lady and be like hey, we get it, but you're asking an awful lot of this double cheeseburger, right right.
Speaker 1:You at home are asking an awful lot of this netflix series you're putting a lot of pressure on mcdonald's yeah, um, but yeah, I think to not to get too zen on it, but it seems that a lot of this has to do with some combination of attachment and expectation yeah you know what? What does this?
Speaker 2:value yep mean and therefore how, whether that end is accepted or not right right, you know, with whether there's probably even the perspective of beginnings too, like whether, whether this new thing that replaces the old thing, yeah is welcome yeah or seen as beneficial, and which is interesting going back to the perspective, because most, most times, like, let's say that you're quitting your job because you're getting a promotion, like you're going to a new job that you're not getting a promotion, but you're quitting your job because you're going to a new job where you're going to have a. You know you're going to have a higher, you know you're going to go into management or you're going to get higher pay or you're going to something positive, right, so you're, you're, you're happy that you're quitting your job. But the interesting thing is that most of the time humans, like we, most of the times we resist change as much as possible. So like we will go, oh yeah, but I don't know that it's going to be better. But in that instance you're like, ok, at least at that moment you're like, well, I'm going to be getting more money. Like you're just you're, you're placing a value on the new thing and you're devaluing the old thing.
Speaker 2:Like, hey, you know, what I don't like about working here is this is like my boss, I don't get paid enough. They asked me to work overtime, they have me do these stupid TPS reports or whatever. You know, like things like that. Um, you know, and so you're assuming. But, like most of the time when there's a change, people will resist that change, even if they think that it might be good. Like many times they'll like, yeah, but I don't know that it's going to be good. And so I think it's funny that in certain instances, when you have that ending that is opening the new beginning, uh, you're, you know, you're, you're, you're almost like talking yourself into the fact like it is going to be better. It's going to be better. This way it's going to be. It's it really? Is.
Speaker 2:And you don't know that in any, in either instance, but in one instance you're like you're, you've convinced yourself and I've seen especially with the, the job example.
Speaker 1:Um, I've been continuing with this theme of perspective when it comes to endings yeah I've seen it over the course of years where how people deal with career changes and this unexpected versus expected, or accepted versus unaccepted, and I think a lot of it has to do with the perspective of agency. People will like if say there's a departmental change, there's a reorg, it's not a layoff. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's not a promotion or anything. It's not necessarily lateral, but there's just a shakeup because maybe this director is leaving and it makes sense to merge the two departments, or whatever, into one. And now you're in a people are in a situation where the person who hired them is no longer their manager. Someone else is going to be their manager. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Or the manager they've had for years isn't no longer going to be their manager. Someone else is going to be their manager, right? Yeah and that when they accepted the change to begin with to have that first person as their manager, that was an exercise of agency right. They agreed to. You know they. They signed the um acceptance letter, the job offer you know, and it was a mutual thing, right. But then with this reorg, now it's, it's a passive thing with low agency, at least yeah employee.
Speaker 1:You know they don't have a say in who their manager is going to be. Yeah, um. So it's weird, but a lot of times, even when it's not a layoff situation, it's just something like a reorg. A lot of the best performers, people who were given a lot of latitude in how they work and what they do, will just up and leave. They'll take an offer with another company. And I think it has to do with this agency, that autonomy, where they get to choose who their boss is going to be, who they're going to report to, who they're going to work with. Yeah, they get to choose who their boss is going to be, who they're going to report to who they're going to work with.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, well, it's also like the. The other thing is it's like for lack of a better term it's like the B. It's well, it isn't. Like it's the beginning of a relationship. So, as we all know, like the beginning of the relationship with anyone, you're sort're putting your best foot forward where you're, you know so, so you, you almost feel like it's not real. Right, it's it's not.
Speaker 2:Until you get to know someone and you've been around them for a number of years. Some people never, I mean some people just always have their guard up, but most people I think most most healthy people at some point they're like yeah, you know, like, and and hopefully what you hope is that there isn't a huge amount of deviation, like it wasn't. Like here's the person when you first met them and they're like way over here when you, when you get to know the real them, right, you hope that there's just oh well, yeah, that's not exactly how they were when I first met them, but it's not like it's. Their core values are still the same, like they're not. You know, they're not a different person completely you know, um, and so, uh, you know it's.
Speaker 2:it's interesting that that, yeah, I think that goes to the the change thing where you're again you're convincing yourself, you're like, oh yeah, but they're nice people and at that point you might hate your boss, you know, you might be at the point where you're just like I'm just sick of man. Every day he comes in nine, 30 and he always gets a cup of coffee and I hate that. You know, like just whatever that you know, just like little things, where just like little things are annoying you. Um, and I've heard similar things with like long-term marriages where you know a marriage that might be failing and going bad. It's all of a sudden they're like, yeah, you know what, every single day, every time they put the toilet paper on, they put it going over the top and it needs to go over the bottom. They're an idiot, you know. And it's like, okay, this isn't about the toilet paper, this is about something else, you know.
Speaker 1:And it's. I mean, that's again expectations, and some some of what you're saying makes me realize that I think, well, that we're talking about a series like a tv series, yeah, or a book that's called a trilogy, you know, or your career, or even, um, what's like a contract, like contract to hire, or just there's. There's basically two kinds of expectations indefinite and definite right, infinite and finite right. The marriage is indefinite, a career is indefinite, meaning it's gonna go on and on for who knows how long yeah it should just, it should just keep going right, um.
Speaker 1:And then there's finite, where you know the book series is a trilogy, or yeah, you know, or you know it's just one book and you're gonna read the book and it's going to be done, and that's fine. You knew that going into it, um. But I think when, when it's considered a tragedy is when the life expectancy is much longer than its actual lifespan yeah right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And and that's where something it feels like something was cut short yeah, you got. You got cheated, you got gypped. Yeah, um, you did not get everything you felt you were promised, right, um, and sometimes I mean, I'd say people even get frustrated, maybe not as strongly, but like, if it's a book trilogy or movie trilogy, yeah, and fourth, anyway, there's a lot of fans who are like no, the story is done, don't ruin it by trying to come up with crap. After we have all this closure, yeah, like, just let it be, come up with something new, you know. Right.
Speaker 1:Right, it's again in that way. I guess it's the opposite of. You know, there was a finite expectation and now all of a sudden it's infinite. Yeah, or indefinite right. It's like how long is this going to go on? Right, Shut up and stop taking my money.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I think that's a good point. I think, yeah. I also think that, going back to you know that's a lot of times TV shows are like that, or you know where it's like, hey, the source material was books, and the TV show or the movie is very successful. So then the money making forces that are in play are like well, wait, apparently the audience. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So apparently the audience is like this we should just do this again. But it's like yeah, but there's no source materials, like it doesn't matter, We'll just hire somebody else to write something. That is that, you know whatever.
Speaker 1:So it doesn't matter, we'll just hire somebody else to write something. That is that you know, whatever. So, yeah, it's a cash grab, right, right series that go on. There are tropes that reference some of that um, like when happy days had the fawns, yeah right, or water ski and jumped over a shark jumped the shark, yep yeah, like. Yeah, there are tv critics and media critics who use that as a phrase.
Speaker 1:Right it's like it's in the zeitgeist, yeah yeah, it's like whenever a show gets to the point where the writers have clearly run out of ideas yep and have deviated so far from the intent of. You know the lore and the story and the. You know the purpose of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, series, whatever it was, I will say I've watched I've watched series angry um knowing that because I'm like, because I'm pot committed, so I'm like well, yeah, this, I hate it, I hate this, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna see this through. Yeah, like, I'm like this is the worst food I've ever eaten.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'm begrudgingly yeah, I will finish this, you're not gonna stop. I don't care how bad your writing is. I will watch the last episode of this. You know like I'll show them and they're like you showed us. Oh yeah, thanks for watching our advertising, sir. Anyway, um, I did write down a couple other things too. That, um, that I thought were endings that, uh, we're not necessarily we have to talk about them, but one of the things. There are a couple interesting things. So, uh, obviously, end of life, you know death, but also end of youth. So at some point in your life you feel like, oh man, I'm getting older and everyone's gonna have that at some point.
Speaker 1:You're gonna go crisis. Yeah, I'm getting older and everyone's going to have that at some point.
Speaker 2:You're going to go crisis. Yeah, I'm going through it, it's fine, um so uh, but it it does tie in with fears, you know the the fear of death, obviously, for the end of life, but also, um, fear of aging. And then we did, you know, remember, we did like cognitive biases and we had that decline ism. You know we had that decline ism you know we had. We had ed zinkowitz on and talked about fear of aging. Um, I think that there's people that are scared of getting old, like just not that they're necessarily scared of death, but they're just scared of, you know, not being being here and being alive, but being.
Speaker 1:I'm not mobile anymore or I can't do what I used to do, you know there's an entire like two or three industries around that, like there's the yeah, makeup and botox, but even health care yeah there's a lot to do with, like, like you're saying, mobility, yeah, relation, don't want to lose my faculties and my abilities.
Speaker 2:I don't want to lose my vigor and my yeah, well, the other thing that I saw, too, was the end of the calendar year. You know, you, you talked about, like all, alternate. You know we talked about going to bed at night, but every year, based on our current, you know, our gregorian calendar is a gregorian calendar. Right that? We're on um. I think so, yeah, me too anyway, we're gonna go with that we're gonna go with that right now. So you know, the end of the year is.
Speaker 1:Gregorian anyways.
Speaker 2:So. So here's the thing. It's like it's always built up to be a positive thing. The end of the year, it's almost a time of renewal. We and we had episodes where we talked about that as well, where we were talking about new year's resolutions and it's like why are you doing new year's resolutions? Well, it's like all of a sudden, this artificial time period ends and you say, well, it's like all of a sudden, this artificial time period ends and you say I got to do something about that I've been wanting to do and it just seems like a good time to start.
Speaker 2:So you got the January going to the gym thing. And you got the January. I'm going to be on a diet in January, I'm going to stop smoking and drinking and whatever that might be. Usually it's vices. That's that's what I, what I've come to conclude. But I just think that that's interesting, that that ending almost has a renewing, you know, a positive spin to it for most people. Most people like I don't know people that are like, uh, the year's ending this sucks, I hate this, it's terrible. You know, like you just don't hear that a lot. I mean, I'm sure there are people that have that, but um, but yeah it's focusing on what's next instead of what's lost.
Speaker 1:right, what's new instead of what's lost. Right, what's new instead of what's lost. Even I think that's what a function of religion. Right, there's the afterlife, or reincarnation. Yeah, yeah. Karma like good karma, of course, uh, in this example is don't, don't dwell on what and maybe we're sort of slipping into our next episode, but you know but don't dwell on what you lost, but dwell on what you gained, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which is good. That means that we're perfectly dovetailing and or getting towards the end of this episode, and I know it's sad, it's an ending of this episode, but it's the beginning of the next. Don't say goodbye, yes. So no, I think that's right. I think that in our next episode we talk about some of the things and how you deal with change. I always say change, but really that's what an ending is, I think is just it's some type of a change.
Speaker 1:Specific kind of change.
Speaker 2:Yeah, something that was going is now stopping. Right, and so we deal with. What are what? What are? Some of the people say that um are basically giving advice about how to deal with that kind of things, and I I have a feeling we're going to get a little bit into what you just talked about, but also get into stages of grief a little bit, which we've gone over in our podcast and other other things that we've talked about in our podcast. So Yep.
Speaker 1:Stay tuned until next episode.
Speaker 2:Yes, please, we'll deal with it. We'll deal with it. All right, deal with it, people. All right, see you Bye.