Help Yourself!
Help Yourself!
Finding Wisdom in Fast Food Adventures
Ever found yourself craving a Chick-fil-A chicken sandwich only to realize you arrived during breakfast hours? That’s precisely what happened to me, leading to a surprisingly delightful discovery of chicken minis and the magic of Polynesian sauce. This episode kicks off with a philosophical reflection on the fleeting nature of time, seamlessly transitioning into a humorous recount of my fast-food adventure. We explore the emotional rollercoaster of food cravings and the unexpected joys that can emerge from unmet expectations.
Shifting gears, we dive into the mechanics of fast-food drive-thru efficiency, contrasting Chick-fil-A's sophisticated multi-threaded system with In-N-Out's streamlined simplicity. Along the way, we touch on the sentimental journey of replacing an old flask with a new, trendy hydration drink from Ghost, highlighting the playful quirks of modern beverage marketing. From homemade iced coffee mishaps to the intricacies of trademarked ingredients, this chapter offers a light-hearted yet insightful look at contemporary consumer experiences.
On a more profound note, we delve into strategies for navigating life's inevitable transitions, from job loss to retirement. Drawing from Tim Ferris’s fear setting and Jeff Goins' introspective framework, we discuss practical tools for managing change and fostering personal growth. With anecdotes ranging from bone broth substitutes to a Vietnam veteran finding joy in Call of Duty, this episode blends humor with heartfelt advice, underscoring the importance of preparation, mindset, and self-reflection in the face of life's ebb and flow.
Welcome to Help Yourself. Food and Philosophy with Brian and Nick. I'm Nick and I'm Brian. On what can the optimist and the pessimist always agree? This too shall pass. What?
Speaker 2:you eating Brian? Yeah, I mean, I guess that's true. You're right, it's not the glass. There is a glass, yeah yeah, I guess that's true.
Speaker 1:You're right, it's not. It's not a? Uh, the glass, there is a glass, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not. The glass is not full, the glass is half empty. At least we can agree that there is a glass. No, no, it's. This too shall pass. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, what am I eating? Well, uh, so ironically, recently I went to. I hadn't gotten to Chick-fil-A for quite some time, and actually I will say that it is my fellow Toastmasters fault that I did go to Chick-fil-A, because they were talking about Chick-fil-A when I was hungry and it made me go to Chick-fil-A.
Speaker 1:So you can also thank Tim Hawkins yeah. Right right. Remix of Chick-fil-A the song.
Speaker 2:So I went to Chick-fil-A after a while this is actually a little bit of a sad story, because I went after our Toastmasters meeting and that was that obviously happens in the mornings and so I went over there and I was super craving just the regular chicken sandwich. I was going to get the regular chicken sandwich and I was going to get a half lemonade, half unsweet iced tea, because they make their lemonade and it has pulp in it and it's really good. And so I get there and I order, and it was. I got there before the people even came out to the line. You know that. You know how they have people standing out there to take your order so they go back the line so that it keeps the line going. So those people were just coming out.
Speaker 2:So everybody had been ordering just through the regular speaker system. And the guy came to my car and I was like, yeah, I want to get the regular chicken sandwich. He's like, sir, we're ordering, we're serving breakfast right now. We're not serving that. I was like, ah, but I was already in line. So I so I ordered some of the breakfast, I ordered some chicken minis and I ordered, I think, a uh, what was it. Oh, it was a chicken, chicken egg and cheese. Little chicken sandwiches yeah.
Speaker 2:Chicken minis, yeah, exactly yeah. Give me, just, can you put a chicken nugget on it for me? Just just put a chicken nugget on a bun, I'll eat that. Um. So I got chicken minis and I got a, um, a chicken, egg and cheese muffin. So, like a, you know I I assume it's the same chicken breast or whatever and and because I wanted chicken I didn't want to get I was I was thinking I'll just get a bacon, egg and cheese. I'm like, well, that's not what's chick-fil-a about that, there's nothing. That's it's big filet, that's pork filet that's pig filet, is that?
Speaker 2:pig filet I could eat there seven times a day. Let's go pig filet. That sounds really not appetizing at all, isn't it?
Speaker 1:weird how it sounds gross when we name the animal right yeah, it doesn't sound gross when we yeah say. You know chicken, like, like, like, if you said, hey, like.
Speaker 2:If you said like hey, do you want to, would you like a cow sandwich? You're like no, no, no, I would not like a cow sandwich. Oh, how about a hamburger? Yeah, I'll take that anyway. Yeah, I uh. So I got, I got that. A little bit disappointing, but the chicken minis are really good. I always forget the buns are a little bit disappointing, but the chicken minis are really good. I always forget the buns are a little bit sweet. And I got, uh, some ranch dipping sauce and some of the Polynesian sauce, which is really good.
Speaker 2:I recently have discovered the Polynesian sauce and it's good.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:It's good what You're making a face like yeah just everything's good.
Speaker 1:It's good, it's fantastic or fabulous, or, tasty, I mean, or is it just good?
Speaker 2:like it's good, it's, it's yeah, I I will say it's not, probably not my favorite. You know, it's not like well, I don't I mean adequate, I guess.
Speaker 1:So here's, here's a crazy thing. Just sounds mean, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:so you know how, like you know how, there are certain things that you crave, where you're like you can actually taste, and you're like, oh man, and you'll be just sitting around one day and you're like man. You know what I haven't had, that it tastes so good you can actually almost taste it.
Speaker 1:That's not this Right because you were craving the chicken sandwich, not the tiny chicken sandwich. That's right. That's right. I was craving it with egg that's right yeah, and I ended up getting the thing.
Speaker 2:And the polynesian sauce is good. It's like a good for a change, because it's not a normal type of sauce that I would get. Like it's a sweeter kind of sauce which I usually don't go for. The sweeter condiments, um, I usually go for like the saltier vinegary or you know, like you know different, that kind of savory kind of flavor and um and so, anyway, it was um, it was good that, like I said, the chicken minis are always good. I feel like it's a little bit of a cheat code though, because you're it's literally like one bite per sandwich. I mean, it's just like that was good. There's another, there's, that's, that's good, you know. So when somebody brings like one of those platters of them, I'm like how many of these have I eaten? Because they're, they go down too easy. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So yeah, anyway, they're kind of like sliders which, yes, the name itself, sliders like yeah, it's like that.
Speaker 2:It's like that joke that my wife told me recently. She's like, hey, um, would you like that joke that my wife told me recently. She's like, hey, um, would you like to eat, like, uh, like, five or six, just um gigantic tortillas? You want to eat that and you're like, no, I wouldn't. I don't want to eat five or six gigantic tortillas. Okay, how about two baskets of chips and salsa? Okay, yeah, I'll eat that. Like so, it's, yeah, it's all, it's all, it's all the form factor, you know how do you eat a giant stack of tortillas right?
Speaker 2:tortilla, yeah you, you fry them, you cut them up, you fry them, you put some salsa with them and you eat that. Five to six tortillas, just like that.
Speaker 2:So, uh, so yeah anyway, I got those, um, and I will say, like I said, one of the things that always amazes me about chick-fil-a is they just their ordering system. Like the fact that they don't. The fact that other restaurants or other fast food places that have drive-thrus don't do what they do is mind-boggling to me is that other places will just have a, they'll just have a line, and they're like, oh well, I guess there's not a different way to do this. And you're like, yeah, go to chick-fil-a, they'll tell you how to do it, like you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I mean, on the other hand, like aside from chick-fil-a, I don't know that I've ever been in a drive-thru as busy as chick-fil-a yeah, in and out.
Speaker 2:So like you haven't been out to in and out, but in and out it's always that way.
Speaker 1:So which is?
Speaker 3:ironic that they're called in and out in and out and it takes forever to get it exactly.
Speaker 2:It's actually not in and out. Actually, it's like in and then wait for a long time and then out in and eventually out.
Speaker 2:They sure need to end up, though yeah, so no, so in and out does the same thing, though in and out has somebody standing out in the line taking the orders, and they also never get them wrong too. That's the other thing, that when you have somebody that's doing that, right there it's, there's no, there's less of a communication barrier, and so it just makes the easy you you know ordering that much easier. Um, but it does make the line go faster just because, even though, even though both of the places we just talked about have long lines, it makes the line go faster because they're cooking the food like way before Cause, like, if you have somebody moving their way back in the line, they've taken the order of the whole line, so now everyone's just waiting for, and also also they take payment remotely too. So like literally the only thing you're doing when you pull up to the window is they hand you a bag and your drink and you keep driving. I mean, it's so fast, so it takes.
Speaker 1:It takes the process from being serialized, you know, one after another. Yeah to being multi-threaded, right, right it effectively creates in one drive-thru line multiple threads. It's like a multi-lane highway versus a one-lane highway. That's right, you get more through faster, in part because some cars are willing to go faster right. And similarly, some orders don't take as long to put together, especially if, like Chick-fil-A, they pre-make some stuff.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I'm, sure they do they have drawers warming drawers for their most commonly ordered food yeah, For peak hours and they can just take those and hand them off.
Speaker 2:Which is something In-N-Out doesn't do. But what In-N-Out does do to combat that is they've only got two things on their menu. They've got got, you know. Basically it's a hamburger, you know like, you've got you know one patty, or a double double, which is two patties, or you've got you know any additions, you can add things to it. But they've got french fries, that's it. No onion rings, no, anything else. They don't have chicken on the menu. They don't have hot dogs on the menu. They've got shakes and they've got drinks, and that's it. There's some. That's how mcdonald's started out. Yeah, no, but the founder was accurate. But what? Yeah, and what I'm saying is that they're the way they combat that. You know going, you know being able to go fast, as they have a limited menu. So it's, even though there's ultimate, there's main major customizations that you can do, it's anyway.
Speaker 2:I don't know how this is, uh, our topic, but that's what we're talking about for a second. All right, I haven't even gotten to BBC. So I've got my cup. I'm finishing up a a little bit of my home homemade ice coffee that I make with my coconut cream. I've got my flask that has its. Days are numbered, this flask. You are dead to me, flask.
Speaker 2:Anyway this is the flask that has the thing. I ordered a new one that's coming.
Speaker 1:It's a milestone moment for you, Brian, to say goodbye to that flask.
Speaker 2:It is, it has a lot of memories and hopes. Right, hopes and dreams. Yeah, and now it has nicks on it and it's dented nicks, Sorry.
Speaker 1:When I said that you made a face, you're like, hey, hey, cut it out, buddy, what the hell, how rude anyway.
Speaker 2:Uh. So this drink I came across. Uh, you remember in the last episode I talked about the, uh, the, the ice, that, whatever, it's sparkling ice, um. So I've done these before energy drinks. But ghost has now a hydration drink and so it's the brand name ghost. It has zero caffeine in it, no sugar, it's got electrolytes and all kinds of good stuff. It says. It's got something called aquaman in it, which has a tm next to it, which means nothing. It's a made thing. And then they've got another one that's synact synactive 50 milligrams of synactive water.
Speaker 2:That one has that one also has a TM next to it, so they're just making crap up at this point and putting it in there. Um, so this is the strawberry Kiwi flavor has zero caffeine in it. Um bottle. The whole bottle is 15 calories not super healthy. It's got less than one percent juice, so it's not like a actual thing. But, um, but it tastes really good though.
Speaker 1:Uh, it's, it's one of those things that.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that's, uh, so that's oh how can they trademark that? Isn't that a superhero? So this says synactive and aquaman. That aquaman, what is this? This is their trademark of mar marigot limited. Wow, we're gonna. We'd have to go on a deep dive to figure out the.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, the shell companies that have sticks in this weird energy drink.
Speaker 2:It's just like yeah, we investigated it. Our investigation ended in the Cook Islands. We can't get past that Turns out.
Speaker 1:This bottle company is owned by your mom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, turns out this bottle company is owned by your mom?
Speaker 1:yeah, so that is what I'm drinking. What? What are you eating and drinking? Oh, that's a good question. So I'm has I mentioned before I'm on the bone broth diet, but this time it's not a cheat meal. It's still delicious, though, though, like I think I could eat this two or three times a week. I think Dory might start dabbling in meal prep and letting this be one of our go-tos. It's scallop stir fry. Oh yum.
Speaker 1:Without the rice because of the diet right, like part of the diet, like there's no starch, no potatoes, very limited carrots, if any. Uh, no rice, no beans which I don't know if beans is a starch or not, but you get the idea. Um, so it's. It's basically just scallops and vegetables and it's delicious, you know broccoli, bamboo shoots, peppers, onions and cooked in ghee or butter. Yeah, so it's just so good.
Speaker 2:Sounds really really good.
Speaker 1:It doesn't stay with you, but that's okay. Yeah, because part of every meal comes with like one or two handfuls of nuts. Oh yeah. That's the. It helps regulate your blood sugar and feeling full long terms out the day I feel like uh, seafood in general is like that, like.
Speaker 2:I feel like fish fish is very light, like I've anytime I eat fish. I'm on a diet and it's like I'm gonna eat, you know, salmon or even scallops or shrimp or anything like that. I don't feel like what comes with. It might be heavy, but the actual, if you just eat something in a light sauce or something like that, it's almost like a stir fry. It doesn't. You know what I mean. It typically doesn't stay with you for long, you know.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm and then drink. I have a bone broth.
Speaker 2:Nice. Is it flavored or is it just a regular standard?
Speaker 1:bone flavored, I guess I think yes, the original flavor, which I believe is beef. Um, and that reminds me. I want to ask dory, or maybe do the research myself I'm curious if bouillon is acceptable because as a bone broth, yeah. To be on the diet, like the diet itself has its own marketing and its own products that you can buy, you know, for convenience, Like yeah, you can make your own bone broth. Sure.
Speaker 1:I mean you're literally putting bones and water and boiling it and making your house smell and yeah, but they also have packets that are like basically dehydrated bone broth and yeah, the powdered stuff yeah but I'm wondering if that's the case, and the bone broth is super salty to begin with, so maybe just cooking up some bouillon would do just as well, and that'd be much more affordable than their yeah all the diet fad marketing, you know yeah anyway, I I am enjoying the bone broth.
Speaker 1:It's tasty and I've got a glass bottle of water, of course awesome staying hydrated.
Speaker 2:It's important you're gonna be talking yes, that is number one pointer for public speaking. You know, ever since you said that now, if I don't, if I'm someplace where I have to talk and I haven't had I don't have something to drink, it's like a psychological like all of a sudden my mouth is just like, just like completely dry. You know, like, and I'm like damn you, nick, you know.
Speaker 1:Maybe you just didn't notice before. Right, it's when it finally clicked is when someone said something. Yeah, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Yes, so all right. What are we talking about? Yeah, let's end that segment, we're ending it. End it. End it right now. We're beginning something new. Now we're beginning something new.
Speaker 1:Now, actually, we're continuing our last episode with the theme of endings. Oh, it's time for our steven covey reference. We need to begin with the end.
Speaker 2:Begin with the end in mind. Bingo I just won. You've mentioned toastmasmasters, bone Broth and you.
Speaker 1:Toastmasters, I think was last episode. No, I know, I know.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, we're talking about sort of continuing that conversation we had In the last episode. We talked a little bit about different types of changes and then, as we usually do, just meandered through that conversation, and then today we sort of wanted to go through just that dealing with endings in your life, um, ways to you know, possible things that you could use to to actually, you know, I don't want to say tangible things, but things that you can do in order to cope with endings, whether they be within your control or not within your control, and whether they be personal or professional or, however, in whatever aspect. I think there's a lot of interesting things about endings, that and we talked about quite a few of them in the last episode but a lot of it has to do with perspective, obviously, um. So do you want to start or you want me to jump?
Speaker 1:in. I want to end.
Speaker 2:You want to end Like I do not want to start.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, we want to talk about dealing with endings. Yeah, Um, and I think we can start with, maybe. What is it? An ounce of prevention beats a pound of cure. So maybe with the four thought techniques and then work our way into after thought techniques, or just see how we meander into it.
Speaker 2:Work our way into the five thought technique and then the six thought technique yeah, if we start with that four thought situation, oh, it took like a second slow the tables have turned. I didn't even notice oh how the turntable um right around, right around, um.
Speaker 1:Um, there's tim. I think this might have been tim ferris's first ted talk perhaps his only ted talk, uh, but he he gave a ted talk on what's called fear setting, and it's a planning tool. Instead of goal setting, he calls it fear setting. And what it is is. You just take a piece of paper and flip it to landscape mode, so to speak. Three columns the first column is what you're worried about for something. The middle column is one thing you can do to prevent that worry from coming to pass. Okay.
Speaker 1:And the third column is one thing you can do after the thing passes anyway and you recover from that having passed. Yeah. So like uh, I think last episode we talked about losing your job Say, let's imagine I'm that's. How would that work in this case? Yeah, I'm worried about losing, I'm worried about layoffs, maybe that's like the header of the whole work. You know thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like a specific is um, I'm worried about income. So, like, what's one thing you can do to prevent income being a problem? Um, so maybe you go ahead and start, as an example one, even by 1%, helping to mitigate that worry of income is going ahead and start hunting for a part-time job, right, or a side gig that you could do reasonably well without sacrificing your performance and your, the job you supposedly want to keep. Um, but then recovery would be would be going ahead and looking up resources on unemployment as just one example of one thing. One thing you could do that would be at least 1% recovery towards the thing that you wanted to overcome, specific to losing your job, which was income. But again, in that first column you would list all the specific things you'd worry about related to losing your job. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Maybe the depression, or what do I tell my friends, or whatever might come to mind. Yeah. And I think that's you're literally facing your fears right. Putting pen to paper and taking some of that anxiety, that anxious energy, and channeling it into something that's at least a little productive. It does a lot to sort of quiet that monkey mind. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And probably give you then the momentum you need to think things through even further, to do more than 1% right. Yeah, maybe you start a second list of idea generation on this specific worry or you know whatever else. So it creates an action plan for yourself to prevent the thing. You prevent losing, what you don't want to lose, or recover from losing the thing you don't want to lose. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that that sort of goes with. Um, so it seems like a little modified version of what Dale Carnegie talks about and how to stop worrying and start living.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause he talks about basically looking at what the worst case scenario is. So what happens if this thing happens and I fail at it? Or if, again, if layoffs come, what happens? Well, I'm going to be out of a job and I'm going to do that, you know. So number one thing for him is to accept what he said. Is you need, okay, accept that that's true, accept that that thing is going to happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's imagine that, that the worst has happened, yeah, and so now.
Speaker 2:Now do everything in your power to do slightly better than the worst case scenario Cause to you that's the, that's worst case scenario, right? So now what can you do to maybe, maybe, not have worst case scenario, but you're slightly better than worst case scenario and you? Know most.
Speaker 1:You know most of the time it ends up yeah, get it less than the worst, yeah, and then further improve upon that.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:That's right, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:And many times, through your action, you actually avoid that scenario completely, because you're actively doing things to prevent whatever you're worried about, and so, therefore, it either delays that or it avoids it completely, Like the thing you were worried about no longer exists anymore, you know so yeah, um, the other thing I'll say is it's a.
Speaker 1:It is amazing specific to like, not maybe not amazing. I'm being a little sarcastic, uh, but I'll just keep going with it. It's a little. It's amazing how the people with the most initiative seem to be the best at avoiding layoff being laid off and the people with the least initiative seem to be the best at avoiding layoff being laid off and the people with the least initiative seem to always get laid off. Right, it's not a firing and legitimately it's not a firing. I imagine it has something to do with corporate or whomever you know. Higher ups say hey, we need to make cuts in this regard, 20% cuts from the department and resources.
Speaker 1:The person who's forced to make that decision is going to say who can I stand to lose? Yeah, yep, right. And what are you doing to make sure you're not at the bottom or the top of that list? Right yeah. You know, yeah, absolutely. You avoid the worst case scenario?
Speaker 2:Well, and it's, and funny thing is that's a factor of two different things, you know. One of them is is this person productive, like is this person that gets their job done Right? But then the other factor is is this person difficult? Like are they somebody who, like I, just I don't like. They're great at their job but I don't like working with them. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Sure, or they require too much of my attention.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly In a different way to phrase that.
Speaker 1:Yes, It'll give you positive attention? Yeah, of course, but it's like you need people who have that initiative that should work independently.
Speaker 2:And vice versa. Yeah, If you need somebody who needs to be praised all the time, like they need to be coddled and like, oh, you're doing such a great job Again. Oh, you're doing such a great job Again, like you're saying, that's requiring a lot of effort and energy, that you're like can you just do your job please?
Speaker 1:Everybody needs and deserves praise. Sure, of course, especially when they're doing their job?
Speaker 2:well, absolutely. But one of the things that we talked about in the last episode was basically the control factor. So, like you talked in that aspect, you um, basically the control factor. So, like you talked in that aspect, you're talking about layoffs, like you're worried about layoffs and that's not in your control, like your company's going through a thing not in your control. I found an article of a guy who was talking about things that were in your control and he poses the question is how do you determine when to quit and when to stick? So, when to stick with what you're doing or when to quit, what are your? Whatever that might be a relationship or a job or anything else.
Speaker 2:And he has a like. Well, I'll say a three question, but it's three questions, and then, once you answer those three questions, followed by a fourth. So I guess it's a four question so so the first question is is this thing causing me to grow or am I learning something from it?
Speaker 1:Okay, To grow or learn, right yeah.
Speaker 2:And then the second question is does this thing bring me joy? So is it making me, quote unquote, happy, even though you know, we know, happy has a lot of connotations, but does it? Joy is different than.
Speaker 2:Well, and he says the second follow-up to that. He says does it resonate deeply with me? So like, do you have some level of connection with this thing in your life, either a relationship or a job or whatever else? The third question is is there still a need for this in my life? So, do I right? Do people still want this? Is there a demand for it? Does it you know? So, things like that. And then the last thing after he says, after you ask those questions and sit with the answers for a few minutes, he said is this what I want? So, basically, once you go through those things, then, you say, yeah, but do I actually want?
Speaker 2:like, yes, yes, and yes, yes, it causes me to grow, yes, it brings me joy, yes, there's still a need for this, but do I still want this thing? Right? Do I still want this relationship or whatever else? So I thought that was interesting, just because it gives you. It gives you like something tangible that you can frame. It's sort of like you're turning the turning the page sideways or looking at worst case scenario. All of these are just framing techniques. Going back to that perspective. It's like how do I get perspective on this thing? Like how do I, you know, if it's out of my control, how do I cope with the fact that something's going to happen like that there's going to be a change forced upon me, versus I feel like I might need to make a change. Do I know that I need to make a change? I don't know. I don't know I need to. How do I figure that out? And so both of those sides of the equation are framing that perspective, I think, and dealing with that.
Speaker 1:It seems like a solid framework. I think the only way I'd ever be able to make any kind of change or adjustments to it would be through practice Right, and change or adjustments to it would be through practice right, and I think, yeah, that would be up to the individual. You know, however, I tweak those questions to serve me wouldn't necessarily serve you right or anybody else. So you basically take this generic and make it personal yeah customize it to your own. You know personality or needs, narrative, whatever yeah, yeah but that's, that's good.
Speaker 1:I like it. What's? What's the guy's name?
Speaker 2:let's give him a little more credit his name is wow, I'm gonna be embarrassed um. It is a web. Oh, it's jeff goins or goins g-o-I-N-S, and it is at the website Goinswritercom, so G-O-I-N-S-W-R-I-T-E-Rcom. Nice. And this looks like. Let's see, I'm just trying to see if I can find a date on this. A lot of times these like blogs and like these kinds of things. They don't put a date, they don't like date.
Speaker 1:Stamp it, so sure like these kinds of things. They don't put a date, they don't like date stamp it, so sure, um, I don't see a date. That's considered like a best practice now, so that way, your evergreen content can feel evergreen rather than putting it if you wrote it five years ago. Even though it still applies, people will feel like it's old.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, when I do that, I'll be like oh, this is from like three years ago, but it's like you know, like you said, it's a topic that hasn't changed.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so when there's a couple of other um frameworks in dealing with change or endings, welcome or otherwise? Uh, yeah, that we talked, we. We cited or referenced the change curve and the grief curve.
Speaker 1:Yes, Um so like the, the way you would apply that is just at least a peak at self-awareness and read like what what bargaining means, read what acceptance means and sort of do a temperature check and ask yourself like where am I at on this process? And the only thing I would, I would point out, is the curve is kind of like a guideline yeah I think it's still very true that you know we all grieve in our own way.
Speaker 1:Meaning the, even though it's shown as a curve, I think everyone, the plot that everyone takes to each of those points can vary.
Speaker 1:And sometimes they go back and forth, like people can go to acceptance, back to bargaining, back to acceptance. You know, there's even, I think, a meme out there that shows, you know, the change curve on the left, um, and then, and that's just like what, what, what grief looks like to academics. And then, on the right, it's what grief looks like to you. Yeah. And it's just scribbles. Yeah. It's the same dots of the curve but then it's just scribbles connecting the dots.
Speaker 2:But I think that's true. Honestly, I think that that, at least my personal belief is that you know, that's where that squiggle is, where counseling or some other um, and that might not be counseling but it might be you gotta have some kind of external factor that helps. And for some people that's like your minister or your, you know your religious structure. For some people it's self-help books, for some people it's I don't know, it could be anything right, it could be just whatever. Yeah, friends or a social network or whatever. It is Not social network in the sense of social networking, but yeah.
Speaker 2:But, like you know, you're, you're, you're, you're people you're surrounded you with, and I think you know it's funny that you mentioned like going back and forth between two things, because I think that's, I think that's a source of a lot of things in our lives Like we vacillate between certain things, Like we, we, instead of dealing with something and accepting it, like getting to the final stage of acceptance, we just constantly are like I don't, it's, like you don't want to accept it, and so you just keep going back and rehashing and rehashing and rehashing and you never, you never, deal with it. You know.
Speaker 1:Or or you're, you're at a point where like, oh, this, this is depressing, I needed something needs to change. Yeah, you know. So you move like you move along the curve, or you move to a different data point but it happens to be backwards. Right, you know like you moved, you went the wrong direction. So, not the wrong direction, but a less effective direction. Yes, right, and it may be a better question to look at these curves and ask yourself which one have. I haven't experienced yet with this problem. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:With this end, and I do think that every unwelcome change has grief to it. Yes. Losing a loved one, either through death or through divorce or you know um heck, even when sometimes I go through a little bit of depression and grief when Dory goes on vacation, like yeah.
Speaker 1:I've got coping mechanisms, I will gravitate to old bad habits, cause I I don't know how to deal with missing her. You know, I try to avoid that feeling and I'll distract myself from it, right? But um, yeah, I think. And then another tool that I've heard is is used in in psychology and just other kinds of self help, is the hero's journey. Yes. Following the storytelling arcs that exist out there. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Even like the three act structure, like sort of imagine yourself as the protagonist in some story and do a literary analysis of what's happened and where you're at and like what would be next for a protagonist. Yes. You know if they have? Have you met the mentor yet? Are you in the valley of despair? Yeah. Have you faced the evil one, you know? Have you gotten the? Yeah, whatever it is, the allies and the enemy. Have you met your allies and enemies yet?
Speaker 2:Right right.
Speaker 1:What might they look like in your current situation? Or what would a friend look like in this situation? Yes. And then it can help, like you said, externalize yeah, what you're going through and sort of help you activate your conscious thinking and tamp down a little bit of the emotion which can cloud your.
Speaker 2:I always love that because I this is a, you know I, what I've noticed is, at least for me, I enjoy and have enjoyed, like doing drama and things like that in the past, past points in my life.
Speaker 2:You know, and it's something that you're using, this thing and you like it almost unlocks different I don't say different parts of your brain, but that's I mean it probably does, but it it unlocks different levels for, to use a video game reference, you know, um, that when you do something repetitively, like public speak, things come out of it that you don't even realize, like you didn't, you weren't even in it for that and it all of a sudden you're like, oh, you know what this?
Speaker 2:I have this fringe benefit of this other thing and one of the things that I always like about I always liked about, um, you know, being in plays and doing drama things is I got to do an act like something that I was not was very, very uncomfortable for me, but it made it comfortable because I knew that I was acting, but I knew, but it made me ask myself the question of like, how would a person that acts like this, so, getting back to the Enneagram, stuff bingo cards out again? Um, getting back to Enneagram. You know I might ask myself how would an eight act in this certain circumstance? So I get to act like an eight in in my, you know, in that. But even though if I did that thing in real life I would be super uncomfortable and I wouldn't do it, I'd be too uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:Right, but but it's okay because everyone knows, everyone around you knows you're pretending Right.
Speaker 2:Exactly. But you get, but you get like almost this benefit of like wow, that felt great.
Speaker 2:Like that felt actually great to yell at someone, like just to just unleash on someone, even though you knew you weren't doing it for real. Your body doesn't know the difference. It's that it's the same thing as meditation or prayer or whatever else is like. Your body doesn't know the difference. Like if you're visualizing something that's why people use visualization something, that's why people use visualization, because because your body can't tell the difference If you're visualizing, visualizing something in your mind, then you're, you're envisioning I mean, you're envisioning it, you're you're basically trying to make as realistic of a picture of that thing and you're also putting that on it.
Speaker 2:How.
Speaker 2:But how would I act if, in my ideal world, I was the most confident, I was the most educated, I was the most whatever I needed to be for that circumstance and so you know it's interesting with the change stuff, because that's I think that also would be is a valuable question is like and I've heard that said is like how, and actually almost any circumstance you can say how would a person that has what I want to have or is like I want to be, how would that person act in this circumstance?
Speaker 2:So, like you know, even if what would jesus do? Yeah, exactly, and that's what would I do. Right, that's the whole basis of it. But you can say, I can say how, and, and that may be based upon like bad information that I have is like that. I think, oh, that person would just be fully confident and they wouldn't care at all. And it's like, maybe on the inside they totally care. But from my perspective I'm going, yeah, but this is what I want to feel, like, you know, and and so. So I think that has to be a big question that can help quite a bit, like, like, even, just like, and we had Austin on, you know, for the fitness, you know talking about yeah.
Speaker 2:And you know, talking about dieting and like your diet is whenever you're about to eat something say hey, is a person like, a person that is at the health level that I want to be at, or the weight that I want to be at, or whatever else, would they eat this thing?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And if the answer is probably not, then you probably shouldn't eat that thing. It almost becomes a real easy if you can put yourself in the mindset of somebody that's like you want to be.
Speaker 1:Would a fit person eat this?
Speaker 2:Yes, and so yeah.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I think that recognizing like these different personalities are asking you know what would this person? I would like time to think on things. Sometimes an emergency situation all you can do is react but like right. If you're trying to make a decision of you know, buy, build, rent or not, or just no change, or if you're right, whatever, um ask well, okay, what would jesus do? Or what would this person admire do?
Speaker 1:yeah what would a fit person do? What would a fat person do, like, um? Because each, each of those people do exist inside you, right? You know, um, I've been re-listening to a book called the e-myth revis, and it talks about how everyone has three different people inside them when it comes to like starting a business. There's the, the technician, the entrepreneur and the manager. Okay.
Speaker 1:And all three are at odds. But he also talks about everybody hasn't to tell prove his point. Um, there's, I promise I'm almost done. Um, you're fine. There's the skinny guy and the fat guy. Uh-huh, like everyone in them has a skinny guy and a fat guy yep and there's that period like maybe it's six months.
Speaker 1:You're just missed, mr or mrs. Discipline getting up in the morning's easy, yeah, and fitness gear. You're on a tear, you're going to bed early, you're waking up early, you know, you know what you want and there's no question about whether you should pursue it. Um, and because the skinny guy has finally woken up, he's finally gotten sick of the fat guy yeah but then what happens is the, the fat guy in the gets, breaks out of his, his prison you know cause he's hungry and angry and needs sugar or whatever it is.
Speaker 1:The sugar demon is the bone broth diet calls it. Right. And it gets activated. It gets in the driver's seat but, like those people exist within us. Yeah. And if at every turn you listen to both and then answer the question, like you were saying okay well, I have listened to looking at my body and and seeing myself on camera and this web call or whatever it is. Yeah, I listened to the fat guy a little too often. I'm going to listen to the skinny guy this time. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, and I, I uh, on that note, you know, there's a, there's a battle that, uh, that goes on with me, as that being a nine, being a people pleaser is when you're, you know, like, so, a lot of times I'm like in the mindset of the more fit person or the person that's like, hey, I'm, here's what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna plan this out, I'm gonna do all this stuff, and then I, you know somebody's like, hey, you want to go out to dinner. I'm like, yeah, sure, yeah, let's go out to dinner. You know, and that's a little bit of an excuse on my part, cause there's a lot of people that go out to dinner a lot and they aren't, you know, they, they make good choices, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So, you know but but, but it is as a nine. It's easier or harder, or the way it makes that situation is hard for you I'm sure there's different examples for all the personalities and and hard for me too, Cause I remember feeling this when we had our get together recently to say goodbye to a member who's moving, you know, and whatnot. Like I, dory and I did an impromptu cheat meal, like it wasn't part of our plan, but like I didn't want, in front of everyone, to make them feel uncomfortable yes, as in, partly because of my nine, but like I'm just gonna take, do what everyone else does be a part of the group, not worry about it.
Speaker 1:You know um, but that that was the the pattern of thinking that I gravitate towards as yes, yeah, and I want everyone else to feel comfortable, so I'm not going to get. Actually, I think I did get broccoli as a side. I still got the hamburger which you know, but I did get broccoli instead of fries. Um, but it was definitely a cheat meal for sure.
Speaker 2:Well, there's another peer pressure. There is another thing that I pulled up. Uh, somebody named Diana Toscano, that is. Let's see what her website is Diana Toscanocom. Hey, look at that. Um, and so she wrote a thing that was coping with endings, how to honor an ending before a new beginning, and there's tangible steps in here. Um, she talks about you know, she actually talks about some of the things we talked about in the last episode, which one of the examples she uses are.
Speaker 2:It was the Sunday blues, you know, just like um, I can't remember if we talked about that last episode or this episode, but anyway, basically, um, she gave. Let's see how many steps she gave. Five steps, and there's. Each one of them has a quite a big description, but, um, but I'll read the five steps that she has. So, five ways to learn how to cope with an ending by honoring it with all the reverence and compassion it deserves.
Speaker 2:So one is give yourself time. Two is acknowledge your feelings. Three, practice acceptance, which we have been talking about. Four, connect with positive people. And then five, be kind to yourself. So obviously there's a breakdown of each one of those things that she gives, but I just think I always love it when people, um, whether they're blogging or whether it's a self-help book or anything else that they give you just like very structured steps of like, here's you know, here's what you can do, um, it makes it a little bit easier, so easier, so on, um, somewhat of an extemporaneous you know tactic is um some specifics on like how to stay true to yourself, like if, if you're into self-help at all, like brian and I, are mr or mrs audience member right you've probably done like the values exercise, where you've come up with words that mean a lot to you, maybe more than it does to other people.
Speaker 1:Just if you've done that and if you haven't, I recommend it. Just, there's plenty of forms online. It'll give you a list of words like integrity, dignity, honesty, curiosity, great gratitude you know stuff like that, yeah, and you just pick your top five like what means the most to you. So if you've done that exercise, maybe pull out that list of hopefully no more than five words and ask yourself okay, dealing with a situation my, my grandparent passing or losing my job, or losing this board game, what like, whatever it is yeah, and asking yourself okay, how can I maintain my value of integrity in this situation, how can I maintain my value of connection in this situation? Or you know, whatever those five words are, and, um, at the very least you can, you know, quote be true to yourself. Yeah, Um, not lose yourself in this. Um, grief.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think, um, you know the, the interesting thing about the, what you just said, as well as what we were, what this person says on their website is a lot of it goes back to you like this is you know, in a few of these they talk about it's you like give yourself time, acknowledge your feelings, practice acceptance, connect with positive, be kind to yourself. You know so, you know it's basically it's almost giving you kind to yourself. You know so, you know it's basically it's almost giving you permission to to say like, hey, it's okay that you don't feel that great about what's happening, but you know, just know that there's ways to deal with it and that that the um, you know, nothing is forever kind of thing. You know.
Speaker 1:Well, and you saying that gave me another idea that you know. When you said it's, it's all you lots of time, not lots of times, I shouldn't say lots of times. Some have said that you know, depression is sort of a function of being too focused on the self and not as active. That does sound a lot like blaming the victim. At the same time, like people who are shut in and isolated tend to feel depression more Right shut in and isolated tend to feel depression more right.
Speaker 1:And people who are connected and have a social group, you know friends and family to spend time with. Um. So there's, there's a bit of a bit of both. It's no, it's not black and white for sure, yeah, but but just kind of recognizing that that there and say there are layoffs and maybe you were somebody who laid off, but you're not the only one who was laid off, like how can you connect with other people or help other people through that? Um dory has an excellent speech about how realizing how, when others are going through a tough time, she gives really good advice, but when it comes to her own life, not so much. Yes.
Speaker 1:But it was like the whole speech is that epiphany of I can listen to my own advice. Yeah Right, like I. Just like I help other people when they have problems. The same kind of help I give them I give to others. And if you are going through a tough time, find other people who are going through a similar tough time, help them with the help they need. But pay attention to the help you're giving. Take note like, oh, I can get that help myself, that's the help I need. It's another way to externalize what you. It's sort of sheds that light on your own blind spot, part of whenever I felt depressed. A lot of times I don't know what I need, I don't know. I don't even know why I feel down, yeah um.
Speaker 1:But then, as I'm helping other people think and fill through their problems, I have those little light bulb moments for myself like, oh yeah, that's what I need to do, um yeah, it's another way to potentially get yourself out of your own head, um is finding similar people, helping them and then taking your own advice.
Speaker 2:It's interesting that, on that note, like I, you know, it's like it's a in a person who has had low self-esteem. It's like I've I've been told before. Would you so would you ever say to what what you say to yourself? Would you ever say that to another person to their face? Like, would you, would you ever speak as meanly or as negatively to anyone? Uh, the way that you speak to yourself in your head. And if you wouldn't, then why are you doing it yourself? Why are you beating yourself down and sort of the same thing's like you know, like you're not giving yourself permission to do anything. Everybody else has full reign, full reign and full permission. And, um, you give them the benefit of the doubt, but you don't give yourself the benefit of the doubt, you know, yeah, so it's, it's a strategic thing.
Speaker 1:But if a friend of mine does say stuff like that, like like I'm so stupid, yeah, I'm so lazy, and like if, if they get, if it's clear that they're on that kind of spiral, yeah well, just to break them out, I'll be, I'll literally say like how dare you yeah don't you ever, ever talk to my friend like that, ever again yeah or talk about my friend that way, like yeah, you know, yeah, um, it's like okay, we're saying that yeah with you or anyone else.
Speaker 2:Like don't ever talk about my friend that way yeah because it's not true, you know well, and the steven covey uh, bingo cards out again. The steven. You know steven covey talks about argue for your weaknesses and they're yours, you know? So, like if you're. If you're like, yeah, man, I'm just like if you're. If you're like, yeah, man, I'm just so dumb. And you're like, no, you're not dumb, you're not done. You're like, yeah, I'm totally, I'm totally idiot, I can't, I just can't get this right. I'm stupid, I'm stupid, I'm stupid. Okay, then you are like you're going to create that.
Speaker 3:If you, if you keep saying you're gonna get it, so it certainly doesn't help you like, stop making that same mistake, right?
Speaker 1:yep, that's the answer to the problem yeah, because I'm stupid. It's not. I learned from my mistakes, right? So I'm gonna do something different next time. Yeah, because I'm stupid, so I'm doomed to keep doing the same right stuff I see, I told you, I told you, this is what stupid people do.
Speaker 2:Is they do this? You know, it's like that that sounds.
Speaker 1:That sounds like a nate bargatze bit. It's like you couldn't avoid this, man. I try to tell you, yeah, but you, you went up and talked to me this. This isn't much your fault, as it is my fault yeah, um, let's see what else, what else. There are some specifics, so like if say, end of life. Yeah. You know, I mean you're not going to toot your own horn, but you do wills and trusts. That's a great way to plan and face that particular kind of unwelcome end. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:I would also say that something I've recently learned about and therefore know very little about. But there's this thing called a like an end of life doula or a death doula yes and it's kind of like an anti-midwife or someone who yes or like if if hospice is like giving birth is the opposite of giving birth in a hospital, Then the sense that I get is doula is the opposite of getting a midwife. Right, I'm not saying that very well at all, but I think you get the yeah.
Speaker 1:The parallelism. Like I said, I know very little about it, but when I first heard about it I was like that's really interesting. Um I mean, it makes that cottage industry, you know yeah, someone just helping someone, both the person who's passing and the people who are, I guess, going to be passed yes uh, deal with that and go through that, that grief with, yeah, holding someone's hand who's familiar with the process, you know, a professional, a professional friend if it were.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I think I mean I think that, from what I've seen in in dealing with people on on different, you know, from different perspectives of either they've lost a loved one or they're dealing with their own mortality, um, I, I feel like that some of the stuff that I do for some of my clients, or for most of my clients, is that, uh, it's, it's proactive, so it's something that you know, something that hasn't happened yet.
Speaker 2:You know, um, but they're trying to make sure that the things that they want to get done get done and um, and so you know that I feel like it does create like a peace of mind kind of thing, and that's that's one of the things that needs to come out of an ending of you know. Is that, you're, it's actually, it's sort of what you talked about earlier in this episode, which is the mind was. It was like prepping, it's like prepping for an end, um, uh, fear setting yeah, fear setting yeah, which is basically you're, you know you're, you're changing your mindset, you're trying to like wrap your head around this thing's going to happen. What do I need to do to prepare for it?
Speaker 1:And so, and there are different um, I mean when it comes to end of life or like end of a youth. Two different things, but part of the journey, part of the whole life cycle we all share, you know right.
Speaker 1:Um, there's not much you can do to prevent, like coming back to a fear setting. There's things you can do to prevent the fear and there's things you can do to recover from the fear, right, and I got to wonder, like think, if men and women respond differently to the loss of vigor, to the loss of vigor. Men go through their midlife crisis and buy the sports cars or get the mistress and get all kinds of relational trouble. Women stereotypically get the makeup and the Botox or cosmetic surgery. Imagine if that money and attention was instead invested in like health care, yeah, or saving right before health care costs and retirement, or, um, just be being ready for the loss of vigor. Cause you can do, you can spend fortunes preventing the appearance of the loss of youth or, or actual, you know, loss of youth, right? Or you could know that it's coming and just make sure that you're ready when it happens.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um well, and our friend Ed Zinkowitz does that for to some level, is you know what? How are you going to? You've just made this transition in your life, granted, I think it all, I think it is all tied to death. I think people, people think, hey, when I stop working and I stopped doing something productive, and I quote unquote, retire.
Speaker 2:I think part of your brain is oh well, I'm sort of retiring from life a little bit, retire, I think part of your brain is oh well, I'm sort of retiring from life a little bit, and you know, and, and that means that I'm getting closer to death and uh, and so I feel like what Ed does is he talks about, he talks with people about how to cope with that aspect of your life which is you're going through this change. It's a change just like any other change, and so how are you going to fill this these years and years and years of your life that you didn't? Really nobody ever teaches you to do that. Everyone teaches you.
Speaker 2:You work, you become productive, you save your money, you get, you know you to the point where you can stop working, but nobody ever says okay, what are you going to do now? Like, even let's take the money aspect out of it and say there isn't any issue with money. Let's just say you don't have to worry about money. What are you going to do with all that time? Like it could be. I mean, people are living longer and longer and longer.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to live the dream Netflix and video game.
Speaker 2:Exactly, there's going to be like 85 and 90 year olds that are uh, you know, just call of duty and you know any kind of.
Speaker 1:I mean, the 14 year olds need something to shoot out, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm saying. I actually saw a video.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, it's some weird.
Speaker 2:On that note, I saw recently a video this is not even having any deal with or anything to do with our, with our subject, but it was a. It was a gentleman who was a, I want to say he was a vietnam veteran and he was playing call of duty for the first time and he was like sniping people with sniper rifle and the joy in the guy's face like it was just the craziest thing, because he would like, he would be like way far off in the distance and he'd like lead them with the shot and he'd shoot, and then you just see the like the puff you know like from that character in the video game dying and he just like hits him. He's like oh, this is great, this is so awesome.
Speaker 1:Like it's just like well, yeah, the thing that got me laughing was that, stereotypically, the ones who are really good at video games are youth and Asians, yeah, and so like there's this weird pun that can be made for youth in Asia, killing all the old men on video games and player versus player combat, right, right, you know Rather than you know real life. Right, right. Wars, because that's.
Speaker 2:Oh man, ok, yeah, dark humor. I apologize. Real life, right, right, wars, because that's oh man, okay, yeah, yeah, dark humor. I apologize, exactly, um, I think that's about it for our subject is it time to end the conversation already?
Speaker 1:I think so I've done what I could to prevent. Now I have to work with recovery um, what I was good.
Speaker 2:There was one other thing that I was gonna bring up. I think it was just a quote or something like that, but I know now I can't remember what it was um, I think, um.
Speaker 1:You know, it's often said that great minds think alike, and you know, good things come to an end. But the truth is, all minds think alike. Right, like great minds think alike, but so do slow minds think alike as well. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And yes, good things come to an end, but bad things do as well, and that sort of takes back to the. This too shall pass yeah there's. There's a bit of stoicism, the idea that, yeah, you're going through some crap right now and take comfort that this will pass. But you know, don't get too excited when you're going through a great moment, because that too shall pass right right, all good things come to an end, so do all bad things yeah, there's there's an ebb and a flow. Nothing lasts forever exactly.
Speaker 2:All right, I think we've, I think we've ended appropriately and bye.