Seth & Luis Scott: Scaling Law Firms & Strategies for Growth

Join Seth Price and Luis Scott, Founder of the 8 Figure Firm, as the pair take a deep dive into scaling your law firm. The episode answers top-of-mind questions as law firm owners look to build their practice, including: 

• What are the biggest obstacles law firms face when trying to scale to the next level? 
• What are the costs and benefits of a virtual, hybrid, versus an in-person office? 
• What should lawyers STOP doing that is causing damage to their firm’s potential growth? 

From navigating obstacles to fostering a culture of growth, Luis and Seth share their firsthand experiences and insights into building and scaling legal practices. Tune in and discover key strategies, from principles of effective leadership and delegation to tactics for ensuring optimal employee performance. 

Subscribe now to continue unlocking more strategies for growth. 
#LawFirmScaling #LeadershipInLaw #VirtualWork

For more information on the 8 Figure Firm: https://www.8figurefirm.com/ 

Transcript

BluShark Digital  0:00  
Welcome to the SEO insider with your host, Seth Price, founder of BluShark taking you inside the world of legal marketing and all things digital. 

Seth Price  0:10  
Welcome everyone. We're so excited to have Luis Scott here from the 8 Figure Firm. Welcome.

Luis Scott  0:15  
Hey, thanks for having me on. I'm looking forward to this talk.

Seth Price  0:19  
Absolutely. You know, there's there's a lot of people in the in the coaching space doing a lot of different very cool things. And I think you've sort of found a neat lane for yourself and luxury, sort of just hear a little bit about how you're approaching because there for a long time, there are a lot of people helping people get to seven figures. And there were a lot of masterminds maybe for the elite firms, but very few people trying to get people through that seven figure SLOG and seems like it's a you've created a neat program there.

Luis Scott  0:51  
So yeah, I mean, one of the reasons we chose a figure firm is because prior to 2020, I had never heard of anybody even talk about it. I mean, you had you had the people who were seven figures, and then you had the people who were like behemoths, and I never heard anybody say anything about eight figure firm. And I know it wasn't part of the conversation from a daily perspective, because when we went to godaddy.com, to find the website, it was available, they figured firm.com was available. And then we applied for the trademark, and I got the trademark. So it's funny how now the eight figure firm concept is, it's kind of part of the conversation. And even though I own the trademark, I see all of my competitors use a figure firm, and I'm just like, it's all good, you know, they, they can keep saying my name if they want to. But the genesis of this was that less than point one 5% of businesses reach 10 million and predictable revenue. And so that's one out of 667 firms reach that. And I have a personal vision statement of of leading a life of significance. And I asked myself the question, what would be more significant than helping people create a legacy, what would be more significant than helping people make an impact in their community where where 1000s and 1000s of families are being affected in a positive way. And so we set out to do something that was unheard of seven figures was heard of the behemoths were anomalies. We wanted to make it an everyday conversation. And four years later, it's become that,

Seth Price  2:14  
you know, it's funny, because I started out with, you know, a law firm in a buddy in the basement, figuring out how to make a buck with real estate was downturn, and he wanted to practice law, I didn't, you know, a couple years later now between blue shark and price, Bennett's a couple of multi eight figure businesses and I look now and it's like, there's so many cool positive resources on scaling, but go back more than like, five, six years ago, there really weren't many options at all on the market. Well,

Luis Scott  2:42  
I think that the options didn't exist, because there wasn't a way for the people who knew how to build those businesses, to actually sell those options or to provide the options. And I think social media, the shrinking of our world, through the digital space has really made it virtually, you know, easy, I hate to say that word, but it has made it easy to communicate with people, you know, we have law firms that are out of country, we just had a law firm that hired a figure firm from Australia. And I would have never been able to do that 510 years ago. But now, here we are, you know, working with law firms around the world. And it's because of the accessibility of the digital space. And people have become more knowledgeable about about in the legal firm, and you know, the legal space, specifically, they become more knowledgeable about how to build a business, where back in the day, even five years ago, building a law firm was all about relationships and referrals. That's not the case anymore. And so people I've got have become more savvy when it comes to building firms. No,

Seth Price  3:44  
absolutely. I smile because I actually studied abroad in Australia, I was a summer associate there. So my goal is to have enough Australian clients, I was there last summer for fun, but to be able to someday return there with for business purposes and have a full write off. That's the goals in life. What are some of the things that you see? So you now have sort of you've been at this for a bit and you've now made a decision to focus exclusively on this and not dabble, which is something I'm personally jealous of. Like, there are days when like having the, you know, the law firm Test Kitchen is awesome. But there's also the distraction that comes with that. So you know, you're you're all in on this, but what when you look at the people that you've worked with, what do you think are some of the biggest obstacles that you see across the board that people are facing when they do have a firm that maybe low seven figures trying to break through to the next level?

Luis Scott  4:35  
I haven't found a firm we've worked with 150 firms in the last three and a half years and I have not found a single firm where the primary obstacle was not the owner. I just haven't found it. And, you know, for any owner who's out there listening if you're at you know, seven figures or you've been plateaued at 2 million, 3 million, 4 million, and you're looking for why you're looking for the key employee the key marketing you You're blaming competition, you just need to look inwardly because a lot of times the owner is the biggest obstacle. And they're the obstacle in three primary ways they don't change fast enough to adapt to the things that are happening in the market, they refuse to treat the employees the way that employees demand in today's today's environment. And then the third thing that they do is they don't treat their law firm like a business. And, and any of those things can keep you from eight figures, a combination of those things will virtually guarantee you don't get there.

Seth Price  5:30  
Interesting. So you know, a lot to unpack there. But you know, I live it on a daily basis, right, the, you know, things that I've embraced as somebody along the way where I went from really no coaching to probably too much coaching, you know, from, you know, adding EOS in to create those, those meetings, and I don't care what it is, you know, if you're using scaling up Eos, some private label one, whatever it is, any of these different tools, whether it's a coach from a figures that make you sit down as a team on a regular basis and communicate, you know, that's, you know, businesses run like that, and law firms very often are people off in their own silos. doing that. So totally, totally appreciate that. And as something that, you know, having attended one of your summits, you know, that that jumped out of me, and I think that this is getting a lot more attention that how employees are, how you recruit, how you onboard how you retain, and looking at things. Again, I'd argue for the first 10 years of our company, or for our law firm culture was just the force of wills of me and a very dynamic litigator, my law partner, Dave Bennewitz, that people wanted to follow into battle because he was a lawyer's lawyer. And that it is hard to it's one thing, when you have a dozen people in your shop, we're a force of personality, and you walking in a room can commands a certain amount. But when you start having managers, and then mid level managers, you may not know the names of everybody within your organization at some point. And then if less, there's some sort of greater mantra that pushes down, that touches people positively, it's hard to get keep people happy and rowing in the same direction. I

Luis Scott  7:15  
mean, I agree it you know, I've always said charisma is not enough. Charisma is not enough to sustain a business and charisma works at the beginning, making decisions based on gut works in the basic beginning. After that, you have to turn from the hustler into the CEO. And the CEO is a much more measured person who knows how to command and not from the not from the authoritarian Octarians perspective, but knows how to get people to move in the direction that they want them to move. And that's something that I really, really was good at, I could get anyone to do anything I wanted them to do, because I was skillful at identifying their why, you know, the logical or emotional reasons that would push them to do what I needed them to do. And so I think that that's the differentiator, you know, when you talk about you have multiple, eight figure businesses, you're in the 4%, both of your businesses are in the 4% in the country, it's because you've learned a certain skill set. And that's what building a business is all about. It's, it's a certain skill set, where you treat people a certain way, where you act a certain way, where you run the company a certain way. And everybody can work hard, but it's working hard with the right skill set that actually gets you the result.

Seth Price  8:23  
I mean, some of it also, and I think that was interesting, because, uh, you know, the law firm that you helped scale, you know, is a big physical facility in a market that COVID didn't hit as hard as the Northeast where people disappeared. And, at best, you're on a three day a week, you know, in office, and at worst people are highly virtual. And I feel that some of this also resonates that when you are under one roof, there are certain advantages you may have where a dynamic leader can walk through and touch people and check in with people not all being in the same office now being Countrywide, in some cases internationally. It takes much more thoughtful or purposeful actions in order to keep that stickiness rather than just the J. OB. I mean, I think one of the things you've sort of looked at that I think you focus on well, is how do you change this from a job, you show up for a paycheck, which is a dime a dozen to something where somebody is a raving fan and wants to be there and build and grow that operation?

Luis Scott  9:26  
Yeah, one of the things that I tell my law firms and I have several virtual law firms, I have a couple of law firms who are six, seven $8 million, who are virtual, I have a couple that are 10 million who are virtual, and the thing that I tell them is, you have to be more intentional than an impersonal, you know, firm, to develop that culture to develop that connection and to develop the engagement because it's not a naturally occurring thing. You don't naturally engage with people when you're when you're working in a virtual settings. And so you have to create that you have to manufacture that in a different way. And so that's one of the reasons why virtual firms tend to have a revenue For employees that are that are way down, when I compare and I, I have a draft that I can show in person firms have have a much higher revenue per employee than virtual firms. Not anecdotally, I'm talking about over 100 law firms that were phasing, it's been the case. And the reason is because you can't extract as much productivity from somebody who is not accountable the entire day. And I'll tell you, even from my own experience, I work from home every once in a while. And I promise you, when I have an hour break, I'm watching Netflix, go for a run, I actually went for a run today, I had a 90 minute break, I went for a run, I'm not working, I'm doing something else. And I own the business. So imagine if I own the business and have all the incentive in the world to put in more work, take some breaks, the employees are doing the exact same thing.

Seth Price  10:46  
Wow. So I was a tale of two cities. I mean, our law firm is back and mostly in person. But it's it's it's it is it is a hybrid compared to most but blue shark itself. You know, it went dark the day of COVID in March of 2020. And literally, this was a bunch of Gen Z years who didn't show up back to the office period, we ended up going fully virtual overnight, and ended up closing the office by the end of the year, just throwing the keys back to the landlord. It was the end of the lease. And I remember seeing like sandwiches and halftime coffees from the day everybody ran out. And it was that extreme. I know in Atlanta, you can't, can't think like that. But that I it's one of the interesting things that I think that people that build firms, virtually essentialist was a return around. But once it's in place, virtually, there are certain advantages. And while yes, there is a certain amount of stolen time, or that longer breaks and you might have otherwise. I also feel that like there are certain things that make it stickier you eliminate commutes, which is essentially an immediate raise, you have, you have people that you can get from parts of the country where costs may be lower when you're in major metropolitan cities. And that as that starts to expand, it means you need to be very conscious of the fact that people can get distracted. You know, I live in DC. So there are a ton of government workers who never were virtual overnight. They're all virtual, and like they're out mowing their lawns in the middle of the afternoon for an hour and a half. I mean, there is stuff. But if you what I saw, and this was immediate upon COVID was the A players became a plus at home because they weren't distracted. And yes, the B minus players became C and C minus players. But theoretically, the goal would be that if you have a larger pool to hire from, you can upgrade whereas when we were constrained by people that would show up to our box, our hiring, we were much more limited. And I felt like we had a higher propensity of non a players, and that now we have the ability to raise that level. So while there may be some Netflix or running, I'd rather have a players with a little bit of downtime with somebody who's using that as regenerating time. You know, but it's curious to hear more about what you've seen, you know, that that profitability per per employee, that that is that's alarming, because I had not seen that, but it doesn't, it's not crazy, it make sense? Well, the

Luis Scott  13:19  
thing is that you may, you may still be profitable, and not recognize that you could be more profitable. And, you know, I always use the health example that you know, the gym example. There's three options, you can go to the gym and work with the trainer, you can go to the gym and work by yourself, you can work with the trainer virtually, or you can just work out on your own. And you can you know for a fact which one of those are going to be more engaged if you work at the gym with the trainer. best result, if you work at the gym with no trainer, probably second result, if you work out with a trainer at home virtually less result. And if you work out by yourself with no trainer at home doing you're not going to get any result. That's the that's the reason why the entire treadmill market is full of 1000s homes that own train treadmills where nobody uses them at all right? And so because once you put it in your house, that's where treadmills go to die,

Seth Price  14:06  
and right but there's also a dip I would argue that if you had a virtual trainer that you're showing up you know it maybe not quite as good as an in person but I would argue in some instances you might make more because the one you go to the gym for you got your get yourself out of bed, you're not feeling great whereas if at home you'd have a lot less of an excuse not to do it. Are there places where if you get the right people again this is this is what I assume you're pushing towards and I think you're you're you've been you know if you recruit for what you need, can you find people that will actually thrive because there are people that use total or peloton and they're they're not going to a gym and they're getting on every day and they got their streaks Can you hire properly for that hybrid environment?

Luis Scott  14:52  
I here's what I always tell people I don't I don't make I don't make consulting decisions based on anomalies and I believe that people We can work out on their, on their own at home with a virtual trainer or anomalies. You know, if you look at the bodybuilding industry, which is the peak, if you look at any professional athlete or any professional industry at the peak, none of them use virtual trainers, they all use, they all use in person, people, you use an in person, piano teacher, you use an in person, voice coach, use an in person acting coach use an in person, right. So like, if you look at people at the peak, they always use people that are in person, because you can extract more out of people that way, the fact that there are some people or very small pool of people that can actually perform at peak. Without that it actually just means that there are anomalies, not that they can be found in the marketplace. But I do want to address something that you mentioned, because I think this is a very this is a very big, I guess, push back when I say that virtual workers are harder to find the ones that can perform at peak, they always say, Well, I have the whole country to look at the problem is that the pool doesn't actually expand, what happens is that you now have to compete against other people who are also looking for the A players in other states. And so if the if the pool of people who are out of 100 employees only 10 can work on their own, at home, virtually, you haven't had an expanded pool, you still only have 10% of all the country, and everyone's looking for those people. And so they're very, very coveted. And that's the problem with finding this. Again, I don't know. I don't know of a firm that has a pool of all eight players at work virtually like if I found that firm. I would I might change my opinion about this. But I virtual firms experienced the exact same problem that in person firms do. Some are lazy, some are mediocre, some are excellent. And so the question is, if the lazy ones are lazier at home, and the mediocre ones are more mediocre at home, and the A players are less a player's at home, then you're still not extracting, but here's here's a good guide for the people listening, you should try to extract $250,000 in revenue per employee. And so you'd be the gauge. If you have a virtual firm. If you're listening and you have a virtual firm, and you have 10 employees, you should be a two and a half million dollar firm. And if you're not, then you have an inefficient firm. If you have 20 people, you should be a $5 million firm. Now the Small Business Administration says that what's an acceptable range is 200 to 250. So if you want to justify and go more conservative could say 200,000. But in person firms, I have multiple in person firms that are in excess of 300,000, many of them excess of 300,000 for revenue per employee. And I just don't find that in the virtual firm space.

Seth Price  17:32  
Interesting. I guess I come from a you know, you come you dance from where you are, look, Atlanta, very competitive market in DC, I always found it very, very hard. And I'll give you examples of things. I could never land recruiters in DC, who were going to come to my office and do their job at a level that I wanted at anything near a price that I would want. And so to me, I'm using this as an example this both blue shark and precious metals, both have excellent recruiters, who are great for culture, have raised the number of butts and seats that we've gotten with them that I'm convinced I couldn't get if I had looked for somebody because in DC, there's you know, there's the alphabet soup of nonprofits, NGOs, government, you know, for profit, big law, big law, and that the ability to get a button seat within my city, I found very, very hard, but was able to get greater talent. So can I tell you how many hours they're working? Can I tell you? Is it possible that they're net flicking for and running for an hour and a half? It's very possible. But if the end result is considered as part of the other questions, consistency, what are the battles I'm sure all your clients have is turnover. And can you get somebody who stays over time now in one sense in Office gives you some stickiness this camaraderie. But the piece that I saw it and we this was, you know, most prevalent with blue shark, which is a slightly different model than a law firm. But what I found when I talked about the when we went hybrid where you only come in for days that you need to have a meeting and if you don't, you can use the office, but like the people that were there all the time, were our worst employees, they were looking for the coffee walk, they were looking for the extended lunch, they wanted that interaction, and that one of the things I saw was a dramatic decrease in drama. The drama level went through, you know, it was almost non existent. Not that there wasn't a little bit here and there. But so, you know, to me, what I'm asking is, I get what you're saying and I get what you're saying as a law firm general, and I don't you know, I get it. I saw what you know, you helped build in Atlanta it was you know, it was awe inspiring both the layout the design to help people were in their pods, and you somehow in a very competitive market found people but are there you know, as you start to dig deeper, are there any positions that are more suited for remote where you don't want them to have as much? And yeah,

Luis Scott  20:02  
yeah, absolutely. And that's, that's a good question there. There are some some jobs that are absolutely okay. And it has to do more with personality makeup. When I, when I coach people, I tell them that you have to kind of you have to make decisions based on the personalities of the people, people in it, they can absolutely work by themselves, people in accounting, they can work by them. I mean, the the personalities of these people, they don't want, they don't care about being around people. And frankly, probably about 50% of the lawyers can probably work by themselves. When I tell people that they need to have some sort of in person, it's usually for the general population of employees and the majority of the employees. So yeah, if you wanted to set up a law firm where they'll the attorneys were virtual, your it was virtual, your your your your social media marketing team was virtual and things like that you could actually survive in those what I what I counsel against, again, even though I have virtual have a virtual firm with over 100 employees, and they're doing phenomenal. Their revenue per employee is low, though. That's that's what I'm arguing against. It's not are they profitable? It's not whether there

Seth Price  21:12  
are you blending? Are you blending US and international on that? In

Luis Scott  21:16  
terms of revenue per employee? Yeah, I mean, so I do do a discount with the International, but it's still an employee. Yes, you

Seth Price  21:25  
get about a low right. But that I think that that's not I mean, look, I do it myself, but blue shark and price benefits each have 35 Latin American, I hate the word vas, but international team members, were actually trying to put in, you know, paid holidays, that was our issue is your we had not had paid holidays, we just paid a high rate per hour. And people were like either resenting the fact that when we're closed, they don't get paid. So we're like, Okay, fine. Put that in. I digress. But I think that if you're looking at it, that's another question. Because obviously, the internationals gonna be virtual, no matter what that you know, I guess you could have a base in El Salvador, where everybody goes, and you sort of would have a, an office there. But to me, you know, when you're sort of talking about, because I look at you, you have my mind going off on revenue per person. And as you do that, like it's not a free lunch, you can't pay somebody six bucks an hour and expect that person necessarily to generate the same revenue. As somebody who's $80,000 and highly educated in the States, it's like there's, there's likely a discount on that. Have you when you're doing this? So obviously, you have an entire virtual team? What are the things you think that you've been able to put in place that gives you as much value as you can? Or what are you doing to increase that? Are there things that yes, they're virtual, but what can you do? What can a law firm owner do to try to get better towards the equivalency of in office?

Luis Scott  22:48  
Yeah, I think you have to have more connection points. And so one of the things we do is we have a mandatory team meeting for two hours every single week, where we come and discuss and share. And it's not just business. So I think that's one of the things, but also, we have actually paid for our virtual team to come from out of country and join us at our mastermind. So we were hosting these conferences and events, and we would fly them in and they would be able to participate in that. And so finding moments where you can connect one of several of the firms that I have, they fly their people in as well. And then they also go like one of them has 30 employees in and one of these, the Mexican border town I can't remember the Veracruz, Veracruz and she has like 35 employees in Veracruz and in Veracruz she goes there and actually meets all 35 of those employees and spends a week with them. And so there's there's it's a little bit more, you know, informal, I

Seth Price  23:40  
hear you right there, we're experimenting for all hands meeting for the firm, we only got a few of them believe a lot a lot of visa issues first time doing it. But we had a handful people join. And my my theories and a lot of people in Nicaragua, whether I go there, White doesn't like that so much may just go to the border town in Costa Rica having like an off site there. So we can at least spend some some quality time.

Luis Scott  24:02  
Great idea. I think that's a great idea.

Seth Price  24:05  
So can we talk we talked a lot about, you know, sort of maximizing that that either virtual hybrid or in person experience. You talked at the beginning about lawyers and law firm owners getting out of their own way. What are the things that you think somebody can do short term like, I am now blessed to have a C team that I can delegate to and when I'm disciplined and everything goes through those people, life works better? I'm not necessarily I think I'm still young and fun. And I still think I'm your age, but like when I walk into a room, they see me as their dad, and like I don't even say anything they start to like wherever it's it's my care of my dog everywhere. So that like at least there's somebody that they can relate to. But one of the things that you think that lawyers should be doing to be less damaging to their potential growth?

Luis Scott  24:51  
I think the the what I find a lot is oversight on things that don't matter. Like for instance, a lot of lawyers they want to have a oversight over the blog on their website, like, Come on, man. Like, who cares that blog is for marketing purposes, nobody's reading that blog. And if they do, and there's a mistake, it's just let it be like, just move on. And I think that there's a lot of oversight for things that don't matter. And it creates kind of like a, a, a feeling of being micromanaged. And, and I think that that's one of the things that they can do is just ask yourself what really matters and only oversee those things and let everything else go. Now,

Seth Price  25:30  
it's funny, Andrew Finkelstein, one of my mentors, genius in the spaces, you know, if you want to scale, you have to get comfortable with mediocrity. And it sucks because you know, your hard drive and guy you want things done, great. But I feel like, if you want to be a guy sitting in coaching three clients, that's one thing, but the moment you want to be able to touch more people, it's really important that you're like, realize that it won't be perfectly cleaned. You know, my law partner, if I let him read every page of content on the web, I'd have like a three page website, and we'd have no, right, you know, and I'm just like, Dude, you want to make money or and again, there's some cringe moments that have gone on, we posted some stuff over time. It's not perfect, but it's what is gonna get you there. As far as Do you think that there are lawyers that you're dealing with, and you have a great pretty good swath of those lawyers? How many of them should be looking at these, how I put this? How many of them in a perfect world of resources were unlimited, or should they have somebody not themselves, managing people where they got through law school, they have a JD, they figured enough gumption to get this to seven figures, but that the management gene, the management, you know, piece is really not their piece, how many people that you're seeing if the if you, if you could wave a magic wand, would you put a head of ops in there and block them from doing anything that all of their vision would go through that person? Okay, so

Luis Scott  26:57  
like, talking to you, and just meeting you, and knowing you, you are not the normal law firm owner, okay, you are much more personable, you seem to be much more like kind of in tune with what's going on in the world, I would say 99% of the law firm owners are not you right there, they are very hard to deal with. They're hard drivers, they're inconsistent in the way that they manage and the way they lead. They're not good at implementation. And so what majority of my law firm owners, the sooner they can get a second in command, the better.

Seth Price  27:34  
Right, and that, to me was, you know, was was the sort of game changer and what, you know, many people this is sort of the dirty secret, right? When you start out, you can't necessarily afford the true COO, right? And that, and that, I think is a pole and tongue, where when you have an office manager, you should be allowing that to happen. And this is something that personally struggled, I see a lot of people struggle with, which is if you allow that person assuming that they have the goods to be the person who delegates down, it also protects you a bit. All those things that you sort of positively attributed to me, if you've got if a feedback I've gotten over time, because what may seem like rational and on focusing on point to an employee may not seem that way when things happen. And so that, is there a piece where if you can be that Rockstar that comes in, says hello gladhands and allows the, you know, the the friction and discipline to be pushed down. Is that something to be striving for? Or do you think that that's something that the law firm owner at the end of the day boxtops with them, they need to push on that?

Luis Scott  28:44  
I mean, look, the thing is that the phrase The buck stops with me is a cliche, to some extent, because many law firm owners still look for the scapegoat. They never fire themselves, they always fire the team member. So if it stops with them, why aren't they firing themselves for the job? And here's the thing. I mean, you've never seen Jerry Jones fire himself from being the Dallas Cowboys owner. No. I hope that doesn't hit some people too hard. But like you've never I'm a Giants fan. So

Seth Price  29:11  
I got nothing. Yeah. But like, there's,

Luis Scott  29:14  
you know, there's Cowboys fans out there. Nobody's ever said get rid of Jerry Jones. He clearly doesn't know how to win a championship. He's been the owner for 25 years. 30 years. All right. So the buck doesn't stop with him. Because if it did, he'd fire himself for not being able to win a championship. And so that's a cliche. What I will tell you is what happens with a lot of owners is they want the $250,000 CEO, but they can't afford it. And so they view every person through the lens of what the $250,000 CEO always and I always say, Look, you got to show some grace. If you hired an $80,000 Managing, excuse me, an operations manager. They're not going to be as good as $125,000 Director of Operations. They're not going to be as good as a VP of Operations. 165 and they're not going to be as good as a clo a to 25 to 50. So you gotta, you gotta be willing to accept that you hired someone who doesn't have the skill, set, education, maturity time in the industry, and be willing to use that person still as a conduit as you grow your business,

Seth Price  30:18  
I smile, because I literally just had this conversation. I mean, I'm like, I'm 20 years into this, and I'm just making these breakthroughs, like, where I'm at, and it's easy to see in somebody else, and somebody at our firm, not relying upon an asset that we have, who is very good, but is not at that highest of levels. And you're like, hey, if we did that, you would get paid X amount less. So I need you to sort of work with it until the time where that person is at that level. Absolutely. And

Luis Scott  30:48  
I think that we don't show enough grace to our employees, we expect them to be you know, you hire a marketing coordinator at 55,000. And you expect them to run your entire marketing organization, you know, from from top to bottom. It's

Seth Price  31:00  
like you're guilty, guilty as charged. I am cobblers shoes right now, my friend, we have a ton of great stuff going on. But we are literally, you know, because blue shark does our digital. I have that's been the one piece that I've literally what you're saying there is not just like, you know, being spoke from the podium at some conference, like I've lived it, I've had more people disappoint me at $50,000 where intuitively, I should know what I'm getting. And so with that, how do people how do people get involved with eight

Luis Scott  31:30  
figure so they can reach out to me on my personal website? It's Luis Scott jr.com LUIS SCO TT jr.com. They can find me on social media, my books, they can find a figure firm there. And yeah, just send me a message. Also, I do speaking engagements. So send me a message and I'm, I'm happy to help. Well,

Seth Price  31:50  
thank you so much. This has been great, and hopefully I'll catch up again soon. Thanks.

BluShark Digital  31:55  
Thank you for tuning in to the SEO insider with Seth Price. Be sure to check back next week for fresh insights into building your brand's online presence. Episodes are available to stream directly on BluShark Digital's website.