Wine with Meg + Mel
The fun + frank podcast which helps you navigate the world of wine. Hosted by Australia's first female Master of Wine Meg Brodtmann, and self-titled Master of Sabrage Mel Gilcrist.
Wine with Meg + Mel
Austrian White Wines: Beyond Grüner Veltliner
Ever wondered what’s beyond Austria’s famous Grüner Veltliner? We’re diving into some great white wines like Riesling and some lesser-known treats such as Welsh Riesling and Muscat Ottonel. If you’re into white wines, this is a must-listen!
Wines tasted:
- Domane Wachau 'Federspiel Bruck' Riesling 2021 $32
- Velich Welschriesling 2021 $40
- 2020 Velich Muskat Ottonel $40
- 2022 Pittnauer Perfect Day $54
Follow us on instagram @winewithmegandmel
I'm Rashi. Hi and welcome to Wine with Megan Malware here to help you navigate the world of wine. I'm Michael Christ Ramblin' Master of Wine, meg Brotman and baby Billie, and today we're doing Austria.
Speaker 2:We are, and all Austrian whites, so we'll do Austrian reds in another time. There's not much in the way of red, is there? No, there's some Blafrankisch Zweigelt, that's it. Yeah, there's a little bit of Pinot coming out of Bergenland, so there is a bit coming out, but I bought these. So, for those of you who don't have access to distributors, all of these were through Stellar Hand, because what I wanted to do is Stellar Hand is a distributor, importer and distributor. Yeah, but what I wanted to do was Austrian whites that weren't greener.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, that's good.
Speaker 2:So I have a range of wines here. You'll probably know Riesling and the rest. Heard of it, yep, I reckon the rest you may not know.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Okay, I'm obsessed with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm so excited there's even a natural wine in there as well and I bought this ages ago and I said to Mel, I have no idea what this last one is. I was like, oh, I've had to go back and do my research on it.
Speaker 1:All right, well, I'm stoked, we're going to do that, but first, meg, what have you been drinking?
Speaker 2:So I had speaking of Riesling. I was at the International Cool Climate Wine Show trade show. Oh yeah, did you judge? No, I didn't judge, but I was doing a Yarra Valley masterclass of a few wines but I have pictures of the toilet. I know we had to change the toilet seat. Don't start me, you've got a fun. I had a Castelli Riesling 2023 from Mount Barker Mount.
Speaker 1:Barker.
Speaker 2:Never heard of the brand. They had a lot of wines in the show. Where's Mount Barker, great Southern in WA? Absolutely bloody delicious. No idea how much price. Well, I have no idea how much it costs. I have no idea where it's like, who Castelli are, anything about them, but it was just beautiful, beautiful Riesling. Nice so go out and buy the wine All right, we'll put that in the show notes.
Speaker 1:What do we fun fact? That's what I want from you.
Speaker 2:Fun fact, it's just more on sustainability and climate. I was listening to a podcast talking to Miguel Torres Sr the original OG of Miguel Torres, talking about climate change, and he basically said they said well, you know, do you think we can catch up? And he said no, we're 50 years too late. Oh, and I was just like that's not very happy news. But he kind of gave a positive push to it because he said it's forced these really traditional wine-growing regions and he name checked Bordeaux into actually getting off their butts, to innovate and to try new grape varieties and to get ahead of the game. And he said and that's what the wine industry should be about. There is, of course, tradition, but not every part of every traditional region is perfectly suited for that great variety.
Speaker 1:That's a very positive take. I think if we had our choice, we'd take Bordeaux, not innovating, and there not be climate change.
Speaker 2:I kind of disagree because I think the I'm using Bordeaux as an example, but you could apply this to Rioja and Napa and possibly even the Yarra Valley. In that Bordeaux, everyone trades on it and there is some absolute crap Bordeaux out there. Now if they had the ability to okay trade on Bordeaux but to make a Mouvedre, for example?
Speaker 1:I kind of like that. You have your traditional regions that you know what you're getting, and then you have your innovative regions that you don't.
Speaker 2:Oh, I kind of think it's cool that these traditional regions are being forced to innovate and they've got the money behind it and they're going to pull. It's a halo effect.
Speaker 2:They're going to pull everyone else through, yeah, but I just thought it was a really interesting take after a very negative message. I was literally driving and I kind of went oh my God, we're 50 years too late. Yeah, but it is depressing the wine world. If we're going to attract new people, we have to constantly be on our game. Yeah, Just don't sit on your laurels, I think, is the message. So that's more of a fun fact or a public service announcement for me. I'm not quite sure where it falls in. I think it's something, but yeah, it's worth listening to.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, let's get into it, because I am so excited.
Speaker 2:I know we have some pretty awesome wines. I've got to say I can't even remember where it came from, but was like we were going to do it ages ago. So I ordered the ones and then they didn't turn up. Remember, because I did order them through um and I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say this. But you can go sell a hand, have like a, an online store. You're not paying full retail, you pay like luc pricing and I'm not sure if only trade members get invited to get access, probably, if that's the case, um, so know, I paid. None of these wines are cheap, but Sellahand, as an importer, is the greatest importer of German and Austrian wines in Australia.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so for the show notes, I'll find where they're actually available for retail and link to those.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they've got to be somewhere. Yeah, Well, the first one that we have is definitely somewhere, Domain Wachau. So just a little bit of pricey on Austria. Austria obviously is a continental climate in Central Europe. It sort of sits between Eastern Europe and Western Europe and it's had a long history of, you know, German integration. The way that they have traditionally based their quality assessment of their wines was very Germanic, so they have Qualitats Wein quality wine that is based on different levels of ripeness.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But what they've been doing now is that they've decided that, okay, there are qualitets found from certain regions, of which there are nine regions, general regions like Bergenland, and then within that, they've actually started to sub-regionalise. So they're calling it the Roman system, but more of the French system and the Italian system, where you name the region. So we have Wachau in there. So they're breaking it down. It's sort of like sub-regionalisation. Go onto their website, the Austrian Wine Board. They are very clear about Is Austria next to Germany. Part of it.
Speaker 1:What language do they speak?
Speaker 2:They speak a form of German.
Speaker 1:Do they? It's Austrian. I didn't know if that was a dumb question, but I don't think it is, it's.
Speaker 2:Austrian, but it's the Austrian-Hungarian like empire. Yeah, they owned a lot of Europe.
Speaker 1:Central Europe Above or below or next to.
Speaker 2:Below.
Speaker 1:Below, so is it warmer?
Speaker 2:No, because it's very landlocked.
Speaker 1:What do you mean?
Speaker 2:Well, it's not near any water at all.
Speaker 1:I'll show you a map, shall I Mel? Yeah, but this is a visual medium, so I'm going to have to work with the listeners.
Speaker 2:Mel's going to put the Austria map up for you, so just so that you can see countries.
Speaker 1:Because generally in Europe, the higher, like the further away you are from the equator, the colder it is. So if they were above Germany it'd be colder, but it's very, but below it'd be warmer, but we're not talking about that. Yeah, so it lies in the eastern Alps.
Speaker 2:I'm going to have to give you a geography lesson, but it's all too hard now.
Speaker 1:I'm so bad at geography. That is my main sticking point when it comes to wine.
Speaker 2:Okay, trying to get a map of Europe. Oh, it's all too hard. So there you go. So you've got the Western border is with Italy.
Speaker 1:Oh, austria is just above Italy. Yes, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Then you've got Germany, France, and then you've got all these other Archean countries around that I can't. I think Romania's there, Bulgaria's there. So it's cold because it's mountainous, is that.
Speaker 1:It's continental. Yeah, it's got to be warm because it's Italy. No, the northern part of Italy's not warm.
Speaker 2:The southern part of Italy's warm, okay, so it's on the eastern Alps, so there's lots of mountains, informed of it. So it borders with Alto Adige in Italy. Alto Adige was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire originally, so there's a lot of mountains involved. I'm making it really simple here, but the one thing that they have is they have the big Danube River, which is a very big, deep glacial river. Yeah, so that absorbs heat.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then reflects that during the night.
Speaker 2:And like Germany, you have even though it's cool, you have these long autumns so you can ripen things like Riesling oh how fun. So the first, I feel informed. Yes, and I tell you what, if you ever go, contract the Austrian Wine Board to do their wine tours, they are fantastic.
Speaker 1:Oh, I want to go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the food is just next level. Anyway, on to the wine Domaine Vacal Riesling, fiederspiel. So Fiederspiel is they break their ripeness levels down into sort of body weight. So Fiederspiel, I think, translates as feather game. So feather weight is kind of how I think you probably, so it's like a life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's lighter bodied, it's sort of that 11.5% 12.5%. The difference between Austrian and German Riesling is Austrian Riesling tends to be dry, 12.5% to 13%. We don't have all these sweet levels. And Fetispeel, because of the very name we know it is like that. It's quite minerally, slatey, doesn't have the lime because it does tend to ripen, has these long autumns, tends to have a bit of that apricot character, excuse me.
Speaker 1:It's so slatey.
Speaker 2:Very, very mineral. Yeah, so as Austria sort of developed, they've spent a lot of money on their wine, but as they started to develop and mature as well as a wine producing region, international wine producing region that people know about, they're starting to get their own game. So they have these DACs, which is these sub-regions, and then within that, this wine is Riedbruck that's my German for you which is a very steep site in the Spitz ravine of the Wachau Valley. So it's talking about all the kind of soils that are there, but they're talking about peach and apricot aromas. There is a slatiness, definitely, but because reasoning, when it's allowed to ripen slowly in a cool climate, takes on that apricot character. This is classic WSET level two teaching. We don't see a lot of that in Australia and I think that's because our ripening is a little bit shortened because of our warmer climate. But this is just 12.5% alcohol and beautiful wine.
Speaker 1:I really, really love the intense citrus flavour, especially on the finish, but I think I'm missing a bit of body or something that's Fidget Spill yeah. So is that lightness?
Speaker 2:on the finish, but I think I'm missing a bit of body or something.
Speaker 1:That's Fidget Spill yeah, so is that lightness. It's a bit too light, I think.
Speaker 2:And just you know, you have this with some pork thing. Pete made this amazing pork thing the other night and it would be perfect for this. It had butter, beans and tomato and kale and pork and he just literally threw it all together.
Speaker 1:Next level, fantastic level fantastic, yeah, okay, Actually I'd ask Winnie Yum, but I wouldn't want to pay too much for it.
Speaker 2:No, I think it's around the $35 mark, Like I said.
Speaker 1:I'll have to. Yeah, I reckon you could get that from like a $15 Riesling.
Speaker 2:No, I'm not talking. This is the thing. If you buy this, you buy this because you want to try an Austrian Riesling.
Speaker 1:If you, want to drink Riesling. Do you think it's different enough that you would compel our listeners to go try it? No, but I think it's always fun to try something different. Yeah, but I mean so far. I would say, though, like, if you want to try something different, go get an Austrian Gewürzt.
Speaker 2:She's harsh. Alright, we'll move on then, shall we?
Speaker 1:I'm feeling a bit offended here. No, who's the mean person on?
Speaker 2:the X Factor, simon Cowell, his face can't move because of the Botox.
Speaker 2:It's just absolutely appalling. Okay, the next one we have is a Velik Wein aus Österreich Appalling. Okay, the next one we have is a Velic Vein Austeric. Austeric is a I'm going to put my Australian accent on it because that's how you pronounce it. Austeric is a region, one of the larger regions. This is Welsh Riesling. Now, welsh Riesling is a grape variety that is planted right throughout Central Europe, parts of Italy, eastern Europe, and it kind of never gets named on the grape variety. For me, I've made a lot of Welsh Riesling, very ordinary entry-level wines.
Speaker 1:It has a waxy Wait, what do you mean? Welsh Riesling? It's a grape variety. Oh my God, I was like. I thought we were talking about.
Speaker 2:It's not from Wales. Why are you?
Speaker 1:talking about Wales Seriously.
Speaker 2:Okay, like I thought we're doing Australia. It's not from Wales. Why are you talking about Wales, seriously? Okay, it has a bazillion. What are they called synonyms? Right, let me see if I can find them all. It's known by a thousand different. It's a white grape variety unrelated to the Rhine Riesling that's grown throughout Central Europe. It's called Riesling Italico, ollas, riesling Lasky, riesling Grasvina. It just has a huge number.
Speaker 1:So it's like a hybrid clone something.
Speaker 2:I don't even know that they know where it's from.
Speaker 1:Oh okay, welsh Riesling.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's not from Wales.
Speaker 2:Probably from Northern Italy. Okay, the closest relative is Elbling Ah, of course, because we know all those Elbling wines, of course. So this is one of those great varieties that when you're in working in eastern and central Europe you see, but it's kind of just treated as a filler. You try and blend it with Riesling or, in the case of Austria, gruner, or you try and blend it with something else because it isn't well-known. That's why I wanted to get this, because I've had plenty of this stuff in tank but I don't think I've ever seen a straight bottled Welsh Riesling.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, I don't know what it is, but when I smell it it's like a curry. I smell curry.
Speaker 2:It smells like curry leaf. Yeah, that is such a good descriptor. It's got the most beautiful pink-cheeked baby looking at me at the moment. I just want to kidnap her Curry leaf. It does smell like a curry In my head. When I was working in Europe, the closest thing that I could attribute it to was like Tribiano, yeah yeah, For me it was like a Tribiano.
Speaker 2:It has this waxiness that Tribiano has and Tribiano there probably is a Tribiano Welsh reason, because Tribiano gets attached to everything in Italy it is. It does smell like curry leaf.
Speaker 1:It's cool, though it's really inviting. It's like what the hell am I getting into here? But I'm into it Is what it's like.
Speaker 2:Bit of residual sugar, I think, do you? Yes, absolutely Super textured, yeah, great acidity oh, I like that a lot. Bit of apricot nectar, like the tinned apricot that you get.
Speaker 1:It is when you do apricot chicken. It like the tinned apricot that you get when you do apricot chicken. It is like that.
Speaker 2:So this is Velik. That's the producer. It's grown in Hungary, croatia, slovenia, austria, czech Republic, slovakia, romania and Serbia. I just I got this simply because it's something that we haven't heard of. Why not try something that is a different grape variety that normally doesn't get name checked?
Speaker 1:No, this is unreal. Yeah, this is so good. Everyone should try this. It's different and fun. This is actually like how much is this worth?
Speaker 2:Oh, I'll have to send that to you because the invoice is actually on the box, but I don't know what we ended up doing with the box. None of these were particularly cheap because they're obviously produced in small volumes and imported.
Speaker 1:Lime honey and curry.
Speaker 2:And finger limes? Yeah, and there is, and the way it feels on your mouth is sort of like a mirin-y sweetness. There's still like an acidity in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nice acid. Yeah, it's Very cool, Very good.
Speaker 2:So the next one I've got for you is musket autonelle Is what? So it's part of the musket family Vitis vinifera, but this is actually grown in Hungary, In Alsace. So you of the musket family Vitis vinifera, but this is actually grown in Alsace. So you know the musket Alsace. So Muscata Petit Grand and Muscata Autenelle are grown in Alsace.
Speaker 1:You mean at Alsace as well as Austria.
Speaker 2:Yes, ah, so you know that musket is one of the noble varieties of Alsace, so it can be name-checked on the label. So they can use Muscata Petit Grand or Muscata Autenelle, so they can use it all of the same family. Yeah, and again, I've never really seen a Muscata Autenelle by itself.
Speaker 1:No, okay, cool.
Speaker 2:So usually with musket, I would be expecting, before we taste this, moderate acidity, moderate alcohol, a little bit soapy, very floral, lots of like lemon, white flowers, talcum powder characteristics Talcum powder that's fun, yeah. Nana's talcum powder, yeah. So musket Ottenel and Alsace. As I said, you can have musket Ottenel or musket de Petit Grand. Apparently I'm just reading this now it was first cultivated in Alsace by the Loire grower Mourou Robert in 1852. It is believed to be a cross of Chasselas with musket de Saumur. Huh, who knew? Anyway, usually for me muskets and even this applies to Alsace, and I've always questioned why Alsace makes it as a noble grape variety- because they're very broad they have a like a.
Speaker 2:It's like hay and daniloquin. It's just this expansive plainness on your palate. It's very, very broad. It also has a slight brown colour, which is top TPMW students musket often does has a slight brown colour to it, if you can see that.
Speaker 1:So it's got a little bit of a tinge of the orangey brownie.
Speaker 2:Orange, yes, okay, or we, we orange Orange musket. We're not even going to pretend because our French is not good. I'll speak for yourself, ag, but it is.
Speaker 1:It's very lemony linalool musket. But there's a really, really highly perfumed plant in there and I don't know my plants well enough, but it's jasmine or fucking aloe vera or something Daphne, the winter one.
Speaker 2:Which is what I've got outside my garden Maybe.
Speaker 1:I don't know, but it smells really nice. It's a white, flat waxy flower smell.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's exactly what it smells like. Yeah, it is beautiful. That broadness bothers me, though, and I've always this for me oh, it's cool, it's different, I like that. For me, this is going to be so specifically random. It is the perfect wine with washed rind cheese, because that feeling of broadness across the palate that washed rinds give you, I think you get from the wine, and it's got enough oomph to support those sorts of cheeses.
Speaker 2:I just love how crazy different it is, yeah no, it's pretty nice and it's nice to see someone actually do it. So it's the same producer, it's Velik and, yeah, it's Muscat Autenel. What about you? Can you see over the computer?
Speaker 1:What about? Oh vintage, yeah, 2020. Yeah, beautiful, that's cool.
Speaker 2:I don't know what's going on, but I'm into it. Yum. So the last wine we've got, because, like everywhere else in the world, the hipsters and groovers are getting down into the areas. And I have to say, any of you who are planning to travel to Austria, do the wine tour. You can bike ride, it's really well set up. They'll take your wine back to your hotel. Yeah, there's picnic spots on the way. I mean they really want people to. It's called the vine something, anyway.
Speaker 1:Here to inform you at one with Megan Mouth.
Speaker 2:Just go into the Austrian Wine Board. They are so good. We have now Pitnauer's Perfect Day 2021. So this is a white wine from Bergenland made from muscat, autumnal tramina and grunewaldlinger.
Speaker 1:Cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I thought I'd get something a little bit funky and it's named after Perfect Day. Because they love the Lou Reed song, shall I sing. Just a perfect day Drinks sangria in the park and later, when it got dark, we went home.
Speaker 1:And they lost half their listeners.
Speaker 2:We are just like who was Simon Cowell on America's Got Talent or whatever that's us. So I got this just because, hey, why not?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, obsessed with that, I'm still not really over the last one, but oh wow.
Speaker 2:It's got that orange tang smell that I often get in skin contact whites. The beauty of this is it's orange fizzy lolly. It's not in a clear bottle, thank God. It's a really funky shaped bottle, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's like a fizzle, like an orange fizzy sherbet.
Speaker 2:That is a drink. Don't think it's delicious. The acidity is fantastic. It's kind of really sour, sour grapefruity character in all the good ways, like when you want something acidic that you enjoy. Oh yum yeah it's good, it's sour, like yeah, but nice sour. Yummy, yummy sour, Not like sucking on a lemon sour, like a grapefruity sour. That is a really really good wine.
Speaker 1:You could crush that on a nice day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, awesome, it's €17.90, so I imagine it's probably quite expensive. So probably up there for the natural wine buff. So this is Pit Now's Perfect Day, Orange 2021, and just a blend of different grape varieties. Good on them for trying something else. Austria, I think people tend to think, is quite Germanic, a little bit staid, a little bit boring. So it's good to see that there is a movement of natural wine there as well, but also a movement that was much more conservative, I guess, or traditional, sticking to these original grape varieties.
Speaker 1:Muscat or Tonelle, oh, mel loves it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm hooked on that. Never been a fan Really.
Speaker 1:No, I'm hooked on that, never been a fan, really no, I'm hooked on it.
Speaker 2:Never been a fan of Alsace musket, I just love. There's just a broadness in the palate that I'm not a fan of.
Speaker 1:Yeah and I see it, but maybe I'm just so inclined to like stuff that is so different to what I'm used to drinking. I think I am.
Speaker 2:True, I mean it really stands out, yeah, but what would you? I mean, for me, washed rind cheese is good with that, but I don't know what else it's fresh.
Speaker 1:I'd have it with fruit platter or what's that thing where you wrap the prosciutto around a piece of pear? Yeah, it's like Spanish or something. I'd have that with that. That would be really nice.
Speaker 2:It's like Spanish or something. I'd have that with that. That would be really nice. It's Italian and you wrap it around a piece of melon, cancel it, but we're close. Mel, you, gourmand, you, but no, actually that is a good, that is a great food pairing. Okay well, thank you, but I still wouldn't drink it. I would go. I loved the Riesling from Domaine Vacquard, very, just what it is. Yeah, the Welsh Riesling, I just, I just hats off to them because it's such a dang great variety.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 2:And it's often spelt R-I-Z-L-I-N-G Riesling. Oh, cute Riesling. It's got Riz, it's got a little bit of texture to it. It's not a definable grape variety, so it's not like oh yeah, it's got you know, slatedness, so it's got to be Riesling. It's just it's kind of white yes, textural white, yes. And then the last wine. I thought I would hate that and I actually really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:Okay, so people at home if they want to taste something Austrian, what should they try and source this weekend?
Speaker 2:Go have a look for a Welsh Riesling and the musket, the Welsh Riesling You've got to get nice.
Speaker 1:Oh no, yes, yes, the Welsh Riesling, Alan and the musket, yes, okay.
Speaker 2:So producer Velich V-E-L-I-C-H. Yeah, I'm sure this is probably restaurant-based wine. Yeah, we are lucky, mel and I, that we can go straight to the importers. I didn't know it could, so we're talking after this. Yeah, we are, and I did it because I wanted to do not. What's so standard? Okay, I'm covering. Oh, are we recording? Yep, yep. Okay, clearly I'm not the smart one. I'm covering for Mel here. So take home message is go onto the Austrian Wine Board's website so you can actually learn about Austria, but try and source some of these less known grape varieties Gruner, we know about. Riesling, we know about. We will do a red Austrian episode further down the track. But yeah, this was just a bit of fun. I'm stoked. This was awesome. Oh, did you like it? Billy liked it too.
Speaker 1:Yes, we will be back with you next time. Until then, enjoy your next glass of wine and drink well.
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