Wine with Meg + Mel
The fun + frank podcast which helps you navigate the world of wine. Hosted by Australia's first female Master of Wine Meg Brodtmann, and self-titled Master of Sabrage Mel Gilcrist.
Wine with Meg + Mel
New vs Old - Museum wines to the test
A closer look into museum wines - we compare three young wines with their older counterparts.
Wines tasted:
- Howard Park Riesling - 2023 + 2018
- Ten Minutes by Tractor Wallis Chardonnay - 2022 + 2015
- Lowe Zinfendel 2021 + 2017
Follow us on instagram @winewithmegandmel
Hi and welcome to Wine with Meg and Mel. We're here to help you navigate the world of wine. I'm Mel Gouker, a strong-made master of wine. Meg, rob and Meg what about part for back two?
Speaker 2:We are back for part two of our museum wines.
Speaker 1:So we're going to get straight into it. No fun facts, no, nothing. Okay. So we discussed it and probably, if you haven't listened to the last episode, I think it's worth listening to it, especially if you're a bit new out to the world of wine and want to understand a bit of this geeky science behind how the wine's got here. But now we have three sets of wines we have a new wine and an old wine and we are literally just going to have a really good time.
Speaker 2:This is just so that Mel can drink some great wine tonight. But I'm not complaining, it's got Riesling.
Speaker 1:So we're kicking off with Riesling, Riesling. We have Howard Park. Do you want to tell us a bit about Great Southern Mac, so Great.
Speaker 2:Southern is the southern part of WA, so some of you may know Franklin River, mount Barker, even though people think of WA as being quite warm. You have great southern ocean influences, so it literally is the cold air coming off Antarctica, so it's cool. It has long, dry autumns which are perfect for ripening Riesling. Now Howard Park has had Chardonnay, probably more famously from Margaret River, but they've always been invested in Riesling in Great Southern. So we we've got two wines. We've got a Great Southern wine and we've got a Mount Barker wine, but effectively they are the same region.
Speaker 2:I think Mount Barker's a little bit more elevation, but I don't think it makes a huge amount of difference in terms of temperature of grape growing. So Riesling from here doesn't have lime for me, no, it has. I get a dry ginger character, yes, yeah, like ginger beer sometimes. Um, I get a slatiness, a honeysuckle character. It's. I can't compare it. It's not clear. It's not Eden Valley, it is definitely distinctly its own. Now, some of you may not have experienced tasting a lot of these, but it's something that the last I reckon, 12 months it's become my kind of new favourite go-to region for Riesling and Ouzou Ouzou.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like aniseed.
Speaker 1:No Ouzou. Like the type of citrus, the yellow.
Speaker 2:I had a Ouzzu gin last night.
Speaker 1:It's like from Thailand or something.
Speaker 2:Japan, I think.
Speaker 1:Japan. Yeah, true, that checks out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, is that the same ponzu dressing? You know ponzu dressing? I don't know. I don't know what it is, but it's quite citrusy Anyway. So for me, great Southern, as a general region Rieslings they have enormous length, fantastic acidity, this dried ginger character, slaty honeysuckle. There's green apple of course in there, but I don't get that lime juice, lime juice cordial that I associate with the Clare and Eden Valley.
Speaker 1:No, it's really different and it does have that apple to it, maybe less of a green apple, more of like a golden apple, but that is fantastic.
Speaker 2:The other thing that I've. Actually I wrote this down the other day. I think that there's some apricot in Great Southern wines as well, because in German wines, because they have these long, cool autumns, they can get ripe slowly and I see an apricot character. You know how we teach in Germany at Spatlazy and Ashlazy level, you might be seeing apricot. I see a little bit of apricot in this wine and it was something that I made a note to myself to have a look at in areas that have these long, cool autumns. Is apricot becoming part of the Australian Riesling experience? Because it wasn't. I don't want to touch my microphone.
Speaker 1:I'm sure I'm going to tilt, you don't have to tilt. We discussed last time that I see in shapes and colours and I do. I see like an orange apricot type colour when I drink that, versus most Riesling which would be like a yellow or a green.
Speaker 2:That acidity is phenomenal. So this is a 2023 Great Southern Riesling 23, as you know, was cooler. Actually, I don't know if they get it Impacted by La Nina over there, do they?
Speaker 1:Can we generalise that for the entire country? Like we are such a big country.
Speaker 2:I know, that's what I'm just saying.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure, let me see what they say.
Speaker 2:Oh, cooler than usual temperatures paired with optimal dry weather set the scene for an extended yet exceptional vintage in both Margaret River and Great Southern. Okay, heavy winter rains blah, blah, blah, nothing new there. This is an annual blend of the finest cut of free juice. So free run juice from select vineyards in the Great Southern. Stainless steel blah, blah, nothing Exciting. Stainless steel blah, blah, nothing Exciting. But yeah, definitely so. Its analysis is 12% alcohol, 2.97 pH. That's awesome. We love that number, 8.5. Why is that awesome? Because it will live forever, ah, yeah, and that can probably add a little bit of sulfadoxide. 8.5 grams per litre of acid Whoa, so that's high. And 1.4 grams per litre of residual sugar.
Speaker 1:It doesn't even taste that high, like it's one of those wines when you teach Wes, sometimes you get a wine where people go oh, that's not high acid, it's low or medium or whatever, and you go no, I need you to like do it again. Close your eyes, do your dribble test on that, do the dribble test exactly.
Speaker 2:Because that is high If you isolate the taste of. But when you've got, I mean, the acidity is just stunning and it just calls out for something fatty yeah, it does Fish and chips oh, it is really high Fish and chips.
Speaker 1:Yeah, isn't crazy that we're trying to isolate the flavour? This is only $27 a bottle, oh my.
Speaker 2:God, and that's from Langton's, so I'm sure you could probably get it online through a different drop or something cheaper. Langton's is expensive, it is. It's just like Well, you've got to know your stores, mate. We work for the Prince Wine Store, but we know the Prince Wine Store prices are a little bit higher than everywhere else, but we get staff discounts, so it's all good. Jesus, that's so good. Oh, that is so good. So good. Just buy a dozen. This is a wine that we were talking about last week. Buy a dozen, put them a wine that we were talking about last week. Yep, buy a dozen, put them away. Yep, it's $25. It is going to be drinking superbly and you will thank me in your old age.
Speaker 1:And that is the difference between actually something like a Semillon or a Marsan is that this young is incredible, whereas Marsan is only good. It's hard yeah.
Speaker 2:You know I find it quite difficult to judge the quality of young, semi-youngs and Marsan and their ageability, but with Riesling less so. That is a superb wine and for $27, buy a dozen.
Speaker 1:Okay, spread it with your mates.
Speaker 2:What, what can you smell?
Speaker 1:The aged one is complex. I'm excited it's completely different. It is way more mineral and it kind of has a bit of that lime that we didn't see in the other one.
Speaker 2:It does actually so. 2018 Howard Park Museum release Riesling 2018 was a little bit warmer. 17 was cool. See, 17 was cool over here, so maybe it does translate.
Speaker 2:I don't know it's like eight years old yeah, eight years old. The colour is just starting to take on a bit of a lemony hue, but there's still definite green. Mel's loving this. I'll just run this by myself, shall I? Because mel's is oh, yum, um, but still a bit of a green tinge to it, and this is the thing I love about reasoning. It's just fruit. There's no fucking artifact with winemaking and ye sleeves or anything, and it is just. It's makeupless, you, and it's a stunning beauty without makeup, and I just love it because it does express regionality.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, there's something beautiful in that, like a Chardonnay is all about wine maker tricks, and there is something beautiful about purity of fruit in Riesling.
Speaker 2:And so you can see more region.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So you see a region, but that oh my God, god, aged white wine I it just melts in your mouth. A good one like it has this it's got this acid and structure, but it is so well integrated with this like melty, brown, creamy quality. It's all about the texture for me, almost like this, like oiliness. The characters are amazing, but that, what are the characters? I'll be right back.
Speaker 2:I was just getting that's the thing about wine it just excites people, you know citrus but I get some apricot in that I don't get the ginger?
Speaker 1:I don't get the ginger, I get lemon juice and a Lemon juice.
Speaker 2:I do see the lime that you're talking about. Get the lime, but I see it more as a lime juice Cordial just to. I see a touch of creamed honey like just a slight touch.
Speaker 1:Not a lot, though, hey, no, it's Just Like just a slight touch. Yeah, not a lot, though hey no, it's just really at the back of the wine and there is a minerality for sure. Mmm, mmm. I need to start using this spit too and having this many cups, it's as many tastes and it just goes. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's like a highway? Yeah, no, it is. It's like a highway? Yeah, no, it is. It's like being in Denelequin you can just see the road and that white line down the middle and the black tar. It is just a straight line. Beautiful wine, Still very young. It is just starting to show some tertiary characteristics and it's interesting that neither Mel nor I can actually put our finger on what they are Like.
Speaker 2:We think it's a little bit of creamed honey, which means that it is literally just starting to turn. It hasn't flipped, yeah, so it's just in its sort of ugly swan face almost you know, before it becomes the beautiful, the caterpillar face, I don't know Cocoon face.
Speaker 1:Nothing ugly about that, Meg.
Speaker 2:No, it is stunning. How much is it, though? Is it? It'll do you a silly expensive.
Speaker 1:Let's see what did we say? It was 2018. I almost 2018, Howard Park.
Speaker 2:And this is the Great Southern, or this is the Mount Barker, this is Mount.
Speaker 1:Barker yeah, oh, shut up, oh my.
Speaker 2:God, how much is it? $40. $40 for the 18 peeps Shut up.
Speaker 1:From them, that's from Wine Square. I don't know Wine Square. I don't know Wine Square either. Oh my God Like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just buy it.
Speaker 1:I thought we'd be looking closer to $100.
Speaker 2:I don't think Reasoning ever commands that. I was more around the 65 dollar point thinking, oh yeah, they've aged it. Oh look, babies are back um there, just buy it interesting, though it says 75 here and out of stock.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's for a magnum though $75 for a Magnum. For a Magnum Ridiculous. That is your birthday present darling, I'll take it, except it's out of stock.
Speaker 2:It's out of stock, I'll get the next vintage for you. I mean, that is nothing $75. Yeah, nah, insane.
Speaker 1:You spend that on crap, burgundy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, why wouldn't you drink Riesling? I mean it's just the greatest grape variety ever. Awesome, awesome, awesome and coming back from. China, where you know the food is so diverse. Riesling was the one thing. Yeah, did you know that German Riesling has gone up 103% sales in China year on year in China for the last two years? No, because it's perfect. It's Riesling acid, but it has that sugar in it and it goes so well with their cuisine that's wild.
Speaker 1:We should all move to Germany. Oh my God, I would, though I'll hear you go. Your friend is back, zoe's back. Say bye, say bye, Okay, chardonnay.
Speaker 2:Chardonnay. So what have?
Speaker 1:we got. Okay, so for Chardonnay oh we are drinking good stuff today, meg, we have 10 minutes by tractor. Oh my god, hi billy, billy's back. Billy's just come back love the hat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're gonna smile. Oh, my god, I just want to kidnap her. I know she's so cute.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we have a 2022 wallace chardonnay from 10 minutes by tractor, um, and then we have also 2015 is our aged one, so 10 minutes by tractor mornington peninsula.
Speaker 2:what they are famous for is their sort of individual vineyard sites. Um, so I'm assuming wallace is one of their vineyards? Yep, oh, mel's just given me the info. Oh my God, it's got a graph on it. I don't know that that's necessary.
Speaker 1:I love it when wineries send us this much information. To be honest, it's beautifully done. It is really well done, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not just saying how I parked the A4 sheet.
Speaker 1:It's a little bit naff compared. To.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, Good wine.
Speaker 1:Who cares? Yeah, no, beautiful. So Wallace Vineyard we have a map here. This is what I always love about 10 Minutes by Tractor. They are so great. Teach you to detail no, the way they. They're so vineyard-specific, but they have incredible education about it. And down to like the cellar door. If you visit the cellar door, even as just like a walk-in at anyone, you will get the most amazing rundown of all their vineyards and how it works.
Speaker 2:The winemaker Martin is just phenomenal. Yep, complete wine nerd in the best possible way, because he can still talk about it. Yep, even though he can be, he's nerdy he can still really communicate it is hard to find winemakers that are that good with people. I did a Pinot thing with the UK during COVID. I can't remember what it was and he was on and I was just in awe because he's talking about these really specific sites and he's so invested in 0.15 of a hectare.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Like it's just I'm much more of a big picture person and to see that microcosmic view of the world with his wines, it was just fantastic. So we have both two Wallace Chardonnays 2022 and 2015. The 2022 vintage started with a wet and variable spring weather, so we were in La Nina, so that affected flowering, because we know that wet weather and wind can affect flowering, so they had smaller bunches and therefore reduced yield. But we had a warm summer and autumn months that followed, providing perfect ripening conditions that generated great concentration and striking flavours across all varieties. And they've got a little graph in here which has got rainfall and maximum temperature and minimum temperature and average rainfall and average maximum temperature and average minimum temperature. It's very cute. I love it. Look at the date. So Budburst was the 23rd of August. Okay, this is Main Ridge, pino. That doesn't make sense. Oh, yeah, 2021. Yeah, 23rd of August. Flowering 12th of November. Veraison 12th of January. Harvest time 5th of March this is definitely Pino. Hang time 185 days.
Speaker 1:What's up versus down difference?
Speaker 2:Up versus down difference? I have absolutely no idea.
Speaker 1:We'll have to find out. Yes, okay, so this Chardonnay that we're about to get into, well, they've dropped it off for the 2015. They've added it to the 2020.
Speaker 2:Oh, no, oh, my God so 2022 is worth $90.
Speaker 1:You little mess, okay, meg is really loving the little resources we've been sent. It's just beautifully done, oh, and it does help. It actually does help us talk about it and give this information to you guys. So thanks, yeah. I mean, look, let's get into this, don't make me wait any longer. Okay, 2022.
Speaker 2:We'll just on the line today. I'm up for a chat and look at the science-y things and the things Grandparents have the babies. Okay, we're going to move. We're going to move. So, 2022, mornington Peninsula, wallace Chardonnay and the Wallace Chardonnay is located on the southern slopes of Main Ridge, with a north-north-easterly aspect. It's a P58 clone, which is a Penfolds clone, which is renowned for having beautiful acidity and retaining acidity. Planted here in 1992, it's our lowest and oldest Main Ridge Chardonnay block. There you go. So that's where the vineyard is located. So Main Ridge, as the name suggests, is a ridge. That's amazing. Okay, what am I drinking? 20 to 10.
Speaker 1:It's oh God, oh, no, no, no, I really Okay. So I see things in shapes, right. There is this really strong acid. I'm seeing this like spikiness, but it's like a train track that goes straight down. But there is this like beautiful roundness like that encompasses it. Oh God, that's beautiful and takes you on that journey and it stays in your mouth for so long.
Speaker 2:It's got a definite sweet spot to it, which I love in premium Chardonnay because it means I just want to hold the wine in my mouth. So sweet spots when everything's perfectly balanced and it appears sweet but it's not and it just gives this lovely gentle textural feel to your palate and you just want it to sort of sit there.
Speaker 1:Some wines transcend needing to give tasting notes to like, needing to you say oh, that tastes like apple or lemon or whatever. And I think that one does. I am struggling.
Speaker 2:My first impression was popcorn, which I don't like in Chardonnay, but then I've gone back and I've gone. No, that's not right, it is. It's.
Speaker 1:No, there's something. There's a corn and butter, I don't know, yeah, butter.
Speaker 2:But there's. It's indescribable. I don't know what it is.
Speaker 1:It's so beautiful Wow.
Speaker 2:Well, that's not helpful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no this is terrible.
Speaker 2:It's not very educational. It's so beautiful.
Speaker 1:This is an audio medium. You guys should just taste it. How much is this? 90. And this is new vintage. That's 90. Do you know what? It's kind of pineapple-y.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I do get some pineapple, a slight touch of apricot, no nectarine, no peach, nothing on that stone fruit character, a definite minerality to it. There is something, and this is going to sound so wanky.
Speaker 1:Do it.
Speaker 2:The Peruvians have a particular corn that is big and white. It's like a big molar, you know. You sort of see a classic picture of a tooth and it has this. It's not as corny flavour, that's what it tastes like. I don't know what it's called. They make a drink out of it.
Speaker 1:Okay, I don't know. Yeah, you know you've completely lost me, but maybe just our indescribability is what Is enough. It's enough.
Speaker 2:Seriously Not helpful, not very educational.
Speaker 1:I wonder if this is on it. The tasting whether you can taste this when you go down there I mean 10 Minutes by Tractor is an amazing place to visit as well. They do a really good tell-the-door experience. They have a world-class restaurant we visited once. I did a wine weekend with friends and, like you know me, I'm a nerd. Right, they're just like let's do a wine weekend, and so I made an agenda for everywhere we're going to go. You're going on holiday with Mel A timed agenda. I'm only like this with one, and I had 10 minutes by tractor on our agenda and my friends all thought that we were going somewhere by tractor and that it would take 10 minutes.
Speaker 2:It is an odd name. It is an odd name. The restaurant is one of those restaurants you could just stay all day. Yeah, you know, you could just sit there and open more bottles of fantastic Chardonnay.
Speaker 1:I haven't actually eaten there, I just know it's world renowned. Oh it's great it burnt down.
Speaker 2:Oh, but it's been rebuilt. It's a pack.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:I had a friend from New Zealand come over this is pre-Burning Down and I said where do you want to go? You can go anywhere for lunch, I'll take you out. We knew her in Chile and she said I want to go to 10 Minutes by Tractor. I've heard it's so amazing. She's in the wine kind of in the wine business. And I went okay.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God.
Speaker 2:Don't twist my arm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want to go too. All right, I might put that on my list for this year. Okay, unreal, love it 2015.
Speaker 2:So I guess the purpose of this, since we were struggling to describe what the wine tasted like, we were making comparisons about how they look across the board. So, 2015 vintage, let me just pull out all this. Lovely, I love this. I'm so stealing this?
Speaker 1:Should we just sit here and talk about the paper for a bit longer?
Speaker 2:No, how cute is that.
Speaker 1:The map. This is audio medium. Audio medium.
Speaker 2:My mother loves to take photos. It's a podcast. It's got all of the. You're putting pictures on the Instagram, anyway. 2015 vintage Heavy rainfalls in the winter. The 2015 growing conditions were exceptional, but they say that all the time, mild and consistent temperatures over the summer and a cool and dry autumn produced beautiful fruit, balanced yields and healthy canopies. The resulting wines have bright fruit, great balance and persistence. One of our very best vintages. Well, there you go. Yields were well up on the previous vintage, so they crop at 1.9 tonnes to the acre, which is two tonnes to the acre very small. So just comparing, this is climate change, okay? So seven years apart, bud burst in 2022 was the 23rd of August, 12th of September, and the average is the 7th of September.
Speaker 1:I think you need to give a bit of context around all this.
Speaker 2:So Budburst is when the vines come out of dormancy, so they get a little furry.
Speaker 1:But I mean around the dates.
Speaker 2:Okay, so Budburst varieties should be normally fairly consistent. What we're seeing with climate change is that they're becoming earlier and earlier and earlier, and while I was in China on the 21st 20th of August, I was sent a photo of Chardonnay vines in the Arrow Valley in Budburst.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Fortunately we had a bit of coolish weather while I was away and that slowed down the leaf emergence, but normally Budburst was early September, middle of September, we're now talking 20th of August and this is the 23rd of August versus the 12th of September in 2015. Flowering occurred obviously earlier in 2022, so the 12th of November versus the 21st Veraison, which is when the grapes change, go from green to gold.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And Bidikin to soften was the 12th of January versus the 28th of January in 2015. Harvest 5th of January 2022, 22nd 5th of March, sorry. 2022, 22nd of March. There you go. Hang time 192 days.
Speaker 1:So this one in comparison.
Speaker 2:Golden and has a definite nose. Well, it's nearly finished.
Speaker 1:I haven't even toasted it yet because I've been too busy doing the soys. Can you stop talking about dates?
Speaker 2:They give them to us. I've got to.
Speaker 1:Can you stop talking about the weather? We have this amazing wine in front of us. I just want to drink it.
Speaker 2:Mmm, as much as I love aged Chardonnay, as Chardonnay ages usually between seven to ten years, there can be a broadness across the palate that I don't really love.
Speaker 1:Really, is that what that is?
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm seeing it in a we've got a 2017 wine and I'm seeing it in that and that's seven years old and it's not that it's bad. It's just it's a phase and it'll move on. I have no doubt it'll move on. But there is a broadness that occurs around seven to ten years that I find in mostly Yarra Valley Chardonnay, because that's where my most experience is, but obviously I've seen in Mornington as well that just gives a. It's not a phenolic, yucky broadness, it's just a little bit of a flatness in the mid-palate, sort of broad. But if I was to have this with something with saffron in it, with the floral because there's a floral component to this wine I didn't see in the first one- there's heaps of.
Speaker 1:I smell creamed honey, completely, yep, oh, and like toffee, oh, totally like one of those Withers, withers, originals.
Speaker 2:Worthers.
Speaker 1:Worthers yeah.
Speaker 2:Butterscotch, butterscotch, not toffee.
Speaker 1:Oh, are they different? I don't know.
Speaker 2:Toffee's just sugar Butterscotch has got, it is just butterscotch oh my God, yeah, butterscotch has got cream in it. I don't really eat lollies so I don't know, but do know it's not withers on the vine.
Speaker 1:Oops, Okay, I appreciate this so much and it's beautiful and amazing and there's much to it, but I have to say the younger one, the new release I think just the structural components and how the body interplays with the acid was so impressive for me. I almost like the what was it 2023? Better.
Speaker 2:People are going to think that I'm a heathen, but I prefer my Chardonnays young, always have. Yeah, okay, I appreciate. Oh well, you, I prefer my Chardonnays young, always have. Yeah, okay, I appreciate. Oh, but you have to appreciate that that's amazing the wines, but for me, for pleasure of consumption, I just like them when they're young and fresh and nervy. Yeah, I know you don't like that term, nervy, that's not me Anxiety.
Speaker 1:No, was it you? It does not mean.
Speaker 2:Anxiety. No, so was it you? No, it wasn't me. Okay, so this, but this is again. There is creamed honey, there's toasted crumpets with honey on top.
Speaker 1:Like a lime pie, like if you bought, like a sweet lime pie with meringue. Is that what that is? Key lime pie?
Speaker 2:Well, I don't know what the clone is, but a common descriptor for me, for Mendoza clone Chardonnay is lemon meringue pie. Yeah yes, and I just shortened it as LMP because I see it in the.
Speaker 1:Mendoza clone.
Speaker 2:Often don't know what clone this is, but yeah, there's definitely a lemon meringue Yep In a good. Actually that's because it's got the base as well sort of biscuity, yeah, yeah. In a good. Actually, that's yeah, because it's got the base as well, sort of biscuity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's good, yeah, okay, we have one more wine and we are taking too long, so we have to keep moving. Next we have the. Is it Lo or Lowey, Lowey, lowey? Okay, so we have Lowey Zinfandel. Well, I don't know.
Speaker 2:We used to. Maybe it's Lowe Also, maybe it's that was his nickname, david Lowe. Yes, maybe it is, but everyone called him Lowe. Talk about the library. Okay, so David Lowe is. Look, he's a crazy-ass passionate person. He sent us that Sonica, yeah, we absolutely loved. He is in Orange. So cool climate, quite elevated part of New South Wales, orange is probably best known for Chardonnay, I think. Orange Chardonnay is certainly on the map, but he has a passion for Zinfandel. Apparently it is his greatest grape variety. Now I have met the man and I really respected him until I heard that he loved Zinfandel so much. But given that he's working out of a cooler climate than we see in California, I'm hoping that we're seeing, even though it's called Zinfandel, more of a primitivo finesse than that iodiney blueberry character of Zin that I don't particularly like. But that said, our only experience I think we could safely say Mel, I'm speaking for you of Zinfandel is in California, apart from Italian Primitivo.
Speaker 1:Yeah no, I've never, ever had a Zinfandel that wasn't Californian.
Speaker 2:I worked with a winery that had it, but there was massive salinity issues so they never actually picked it. So what we expect from Zinfandel traditionally is that blueberry, I get an iodine character. I nearly wore that wine I get an iodine character, and I'm talking specifically Californian. So we have no point of reference for these wines. Okay so, david Lowe, lowe, we still don't know.
Speaker 2:I called him Lowe. He was a friend of Mike DeGaris's. He probably doesn't remember me, but I met him years ago and he's a tall, strapping, very passionate man about wine.
Speaker 1:Anyway.
Speaker 2:Zinfandel. He loves Zinfandel. He thinks it's a drought-resistant variety suited to warm climates and requires fewer resources to grow, and that's why he loves it. He thinks we've got a 2021 and a 2017. He thinks the 2017 is the best wine in his collection. Whoa, I know a big call, so it's from Mudgee and apparently Sonoma in California. The region bears many similarities to Mudgee, including a Mediterranean inland climate. How can that be? Including a Mediterranean inland climate? How can that be?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Mediterranean inland climate. Yeah, well, how can? In Wesset it says that Yarra Valley is called by the sea.
Speaker 2:Actually the part around Coldstream. There is some sea influence. What like one specific part?
Speaker 1:in.
Speaker 2:Coldstream? Yeah, I mean Greer Coldstream a small part? Yeah, no.
Speaker 1:Like I mean, I was like talking to the Westies.
Speaker 2:I don't mean to be rude, wct, but sometimes I believe the romance rather than the truth. Anyway, what we have is two Zinfandels from Mudgee 2021 and 2017. So Zinfandel, blueberry, iodine, blackberry Raisins.
Speaker 1:And something meaty I smell lamb. I smell lamb kofta.
Speaker 2:Lamb kofta. Are you just hungry? Might be, oh God. Okay. So I definitely get the raisins. I get a little bit of Christmas cake kind of character. There is a meatiness, but I'm more on a. Just when you cut into a salami. Oh yeah, Smell. It definitely smells like dried fruit. To me it's a bit tomato-y as well.
Speaker 1:To me Something tomato-y as well it has remnants of Californian Zinfandel.
Speaker 2:It's definitely more Zinfandel than Primitivo and he calls it Zin, but it's so much nicer. I admit I am struggling. I was, let's see. Disappointment is just failed expectation. I was hoping for an Australian's in. For it to be completely different, yeah, and I'm seeing something that's very California, and I guess that's probably what you should be expecting. So I'm an idiot.
Speaker 1:No, but there's way less. Surely, there's way less. Yeah, it's not as, it's not as in your face, it doesn't punch me, the tannin structure is much more elongated across the palate.
Speaker 2:The alcohol seems a little bit more moderate. It doesn't seem like it's sitting above the wine. It's very perfect. It's perfectly integrated. I don't know how much oak is in this wine, because whatever oak usage he's got.
Speaker 1:You're so harsh, that's so nice. I find that bright and lively and fruity and interesting and it's not.
Speaker 2:Lovely.
Speaker 1:Okay, but I have never, so this will be a couple of firsts today, because I have never tasted a Zinfandel that wasn't Californian, and I definitely never tasted an aged Zinfandel.
Speaker 2:No, so we've got the 2017. I've got to say I have pre-tasted this and this is the dog's bollocks. This is where it's at.
Speaker 1:Is that a good thing? I can, yeah. Do you want to be the dog's bollocks?
Speaker 2:Yeah, stand out All right Stand, all right Standing like a dog's bollocks Okay, don't you use that term here.
Speaker 1:Never heard it.
Speaker 2:No, what do you mean? Here, we live in the same place In England, it's a term, it's a dog's bollocks.
Speaker 1:Oh, it does sound English. No, I never heard of it, but no, I believe you, it means it's.
Speaker 2:You know how dogs' balls stand out.
Speaker 1:Oh, oh, like they're balls, not, they're butt. Bollocks Are bollocks, balls, balls.
Speaker 2:Not butt, not buttocks, bollocks I've never heard balls referred to as bollocks. Have you ever heard of the Sex Pistols album? Never Mind the Bollocks.
Speaker 1:No, oh my God, is that embarrassing.
Speaker 2:We just can't be friends anymore. Oh no, never Mind the Bllocks. I mean bollocks are sorry. Just to educate everyone, bollocks are balls and the dog's bollocks means that that's super, because it's sort of standing out, because when you walk behind a dog that has its balls, the balls stand out, yeah, stands out, like dog's balls. We say that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe I do.
Speaker 2:I don't know, anyway. Anyway, this is good. This is good. The 2017 is next level, and maybe that's my problem with Zinfandel I need it to age.
Speaker 1:It's forest floor but it's got iodine, but I find it lovely, yeah, forest floor iodine, a maraschino cherry character that I wouldn't, expect.
Speaker 2:It almost smells bitter.
Speaker 1:Yes, it does. It smells bitter. It almost smells like a cherry ripe yeah, but like a.
Speaker 2:Do you know what it reminds me of, despite the alcohol?
Speaker 1:Like a Valpolicella that Covina cherry lift that you get in a Valpol Coconut Coconut. I wonder if he's got American oak over there and like a prune or something, there's dried fruit, there's prune, there's definitely Christmas cake.
Speaker 2:This is $120. David considers this one the best in his collection. It is uniquely Australian and extremely food friendly. He's got red fruits, overtone of raisins and Christmas cake. The oak maturation is understated and subtle throughout the flavour.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That is pretty delicious. It's awesome it needs food.
Speaker 1:It totally needs food, ribs Yum.
Speaker 2:That's cool. That is cool. I'll be honest, not a fan of the 22., the 21?, the 21. Really, it's a good wine.
Speaker 1:You hit it so well.
Speaker 2:But if that's going to evolve given for us down here the vintages were similar-esque if it's going to evolve into 17, maybe I just drink my Zinfandel's too young.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I also feel like you might just have something against Zinfandel, because I quite enjoyed the 21. I found it fresh and lively and almost Barbera-esque. Oh okay, yeah, I feel like it has this yummy berry, bright fruit, that a lot of people might like.
Speaker 2:It's just the dried fruit character. I think that I'm not loving, but really, really, really good wines. I mean, they're faultless. It's just I'm allowing personal taste to override super well-made wines.
Speaker 1:This is the forum where you're allowed to have a personal opinion. Yay, yeah. Wine judging and we're set. We have to be objective, but this is the place to have an opinion. What is the alcohol on those A 14.8.
Speaker 2:Okay, Got a bit of indigestion after all. The canapes last night at the wine show my own fault Fading the pie at the end. What pie? It was like a Thai curry chicken pie.
Speaker 2:It was good that sounds good you should have got oh, you're not working at the moment, I'm not, anyway aged wines. If you've got the museum wines, if you've got the ability to age them, do. If you don't Invest with your mates, just go in, yeah and say, okay, we're going to buy. You could buy from All Saints, for example. You could go online, join the club, go online, order a dozen different vintages and then just taste them.
Speaker 1:I mean they're not cheap, but they shouldn't be. Yeah, and places like 10 Minutes by Tractor. You often can't get their wines, the vintages, older vintages in stores, but if you go to the cellar door there's going to be some kind of selection.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, they always have something, and it was the Wallace Chardonnay, just so you know.
Speaker 1:Great, that was fun. Oh, that was so fun Spoiled. Thank you to all the wineries for supplying wines for these episodes.
Speaker 2:Thanks to Mel for getting her shit together to get a nice wine set. Doris. What else has she been hiding from me people?
Speaker 1:No, this was the good stuff.
Speaker 2:Okay, no, she did bring it out.
Speaker 1:So thank you very much, but also everyone at home, like you can tell by how excited we are. It really really is worth drinking aged wine. So look, clear out, go check out the Dan's Cellar section. Absolutely Go to the cellar doors, ask if they have anything aged. Sometimes they will have it. They will.
Speaker 2:They will definitely have aged wine. They don't bring it out. They may add a 50% premium on top. So if you're paying $25, you're paying $37.
Speaker 1:$50, fair dues and if you don't want to pay it, just start collecting now. Just start getting all these wines and putting them down. Yeah, all right. Well, that is all we have for you this week. We're going to be back with you next week. Until then, enjoy your next glass of wine and drink well.
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