The Health Compass Podcast
If you are interested in evidence-based information on all things health with lots of actionable take-homes, this podcast is for you..
The Health Compass Podcast
Harnessing Habits and Health for Success: A Chat with Tobi-Emonts-Holley
Get ready to be immersed in Tobi's extraordinary journey that covers his foundations, the importance of setting realistic goals, and his outlook on striking a balance between life and ambitions.
His perspective on the '5AM Club' philosophy might just make you reevaluate your morning routine. Get a glimpse into his rigorous training routine that prepares him for the daunting Ben Nevis Ultra.
Moving from goals to the philosophical, we delve deeper into the concept of victimhood and true wealth.
Our conversation covers the essence of appreciating what we possess and how this affects our aspirations. We highlight the significance of time, creating memories with family, and how these outweigh monetary pursuit.
Drawing from Tobi's experience, we also share some insightful tips on minimizing distractions, including setting boundaries with technology.
Wrapping up our engaging discussion, we explore the ideas of habit cues, leadership accountability, and personal accomplishments.
We underscore the importance of recognizing and understanding your habit cues, and how to use these to foster healthier, more productive lifestyles. This episode is filled with inspiring discussions and insightful takeaways that you won't want to miss!
Thank you very much. So Taube welcome to the Health Compass podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. Awesome being here.
Speaker 1:First question, taube, something that I asked all the guests. It's where, what or why. So now it can be. It doesn't have to be a big long answer. As short as possible, right? So it goes. Where have you come from to get where you're currently at, what you're currently doing and why you do what you do?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's good. So where have I come from? So, location-wise, I'm from Germany and made my way across the little pond to the UK and now I'm in Edinburgh, scotland, and I've come from a kind of small family, so only child, and I am now living in a large household, so my wife and I have six children. So that's been quite a journey In terms of where I've come from.
Speaker 1:I'm spoken on the tail over here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, at one point, at one point they care of each other and our good playmates. So you know, that's that's the benefit of numbers there. And in terms of kind of what I think was the next question, right, in terms of what I'm doing. So I went to university, studied economics and thought I would probably end up doing something in that realm. I absolutely didn't end up doing that because when I initially came to the UK I did a voluntary year in a care home for adults with learning disabilities and I really really enjoyed that work. So, although I went off to study, I kept working here and then, after kind of university was finished, took me nine and a half years all in all until that was kind of done. But I came back to the organisation where originally volunteered for the operations management role and then applied to be the CEO.
Speaker 2:So what I'm doing is running a charity here in Edinburgh and, yeah, it's just been kind of my whole adult life has been ingrained with the work here and, as I said, I tried to do kind of economics and maybe the academia route or maybe consultancy.
Speaker 2:But what I really enjoyed is impacting people directly, working with people and the variety that I get from the kind of work that I do is fantastic working on the ground, doing finance stuff, meeting politicians it's a huge range of stuff and really it's really fulfilling. And why I'm doing that is probably kind of touching on upon it partly is it is just a very fulfilling work. It's work that means a lot to the people that we deliver the service to. We also work quite closely with the natural environment, so it's kind of it's a good feeling, the work that we're doing, and that means a lot to me, means a lot to the people that we work with, and it also I think it sets a good example for the kids. So that's probably kind of the whole. That's a big why for me, why I'm doing it.
Speaker 1:And what got you into writing on the website that I, as I said, came across on Instagram and then went on to your website. What inspired you to start writing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think, coincidentally probably, it was actually that one of my best friends who had done a lot of kind of fitness challenges with here in the UK he left. He left a finance job and became a firefighter in Australia. So that was quite a journey he went on, but I kind of I started up, kind of you know, I obviously started missing him. He went kind of just before COVID hit, just the summer before, and it was in that time where I just realized, hang on, like that one person that I did all this crazy stuff with is gone, and you know, the people that work are fantastic, but we weren't sharing, sharing that element, and I was looking for somebody else, basically for somebody else, to fill that void. And I realized obviously it's not one person and there must be others out there.
Speaker 2:And it was finding people that had a kind of similar mindset to myself, trying to challenge themselves, trying to get better, and I was trying to find a way to connect with people. And I realized that probably you know, if you're sending out a signal, start writing online, start kind of telling people who you are and read other people's writing and engage with them, that I might find people of that kind of caliber of that tribe and I did absolutely amazing. I mean that that you know I've been writing online for two and a half years and I have met so many amazing people, made great, great friends. It's fantastic when you then end up meeting in real life because you know each other so in depth, because you've read all this like really heavy writing title from time to time, so that's kind of I think was kind of kept me going and that was just a little community I think that's built around that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sweet. So we're connected. Now to Julian, I suppose, and I know you're a big fan of Haber formation and one of the I'll just have you hear a great point about unrealistic expectations, especially when starting a new venture. Let's say, could you elaborate on that a little bit?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess you know we a lot of times I mean, with any kind of goal setting or vision setting, when we, when we said I mean it's, it's, it's.
Speaker 2:It's an interesting dichotomy that there is, because, on the one hand, you need to set a goal that scares you, that one that's just way out of your league, to really grow and transform into whoever you want to be, and at the same time, you need to bring it down to the, to the small habits, to the daily actions. So if that is, you know, I want to get off the couch and I want to start running a marathon, fantastic, because you know what that end goal is, but at the same time, you need to go, okay. So what does that mean day to day? How do I build in small amounts of time to start running? How do I make more time for walks? How do I make better choices in the kitchen? All of those things are, then you know. So you need to, you need to marry those two having the big vision but then really starting to change your lifestyle, starting to change the daily habits that have so far prevented you from becoming the person that you want to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's kind of like a slow, steady change. It's not like a complete overhaul in a 24 hour period where you're lumping a lot of change into your day, which is really it's a recipe for disaster.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I think most of us, most of us have kind of suffered from that at one point or another, where we've just gone too hard and then you realize you need to take it slow.
Speaker 1:That's a great advice and all that thing you have, and it's about getting up the same time every day. How pivotal do you think that is in achieving anything, any goal?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think that the getting up every day that is for me is linked with getting up early. Now that is something that's probably quite gimmicky, where people you know there's a five AM club.
Speaker 1:four, 30 AM club or whatever you know, just trying to Three AM clubs. Help you each other.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, just don't sleep, so yeah. So I think that the two elements being I mean for me I find that, you know, having a large family and running a business and just being around people kind of constantly, as soon as the kids are basically there, people around me until I go to bed, if I want to have any sort of peace of mind and finding a bit of space, and I think we all need a bit of kind of me time, and for me it's quite important to have that bit of me time just to fill my cup, just to make sure, okay, I can train, I can listen to some podcasts or audiobooks or whatever and just kind of become a better version of myself in whatever realm that is. So that early morning is that time, you know, because if you don't train in the morning and with a lot of obligations on our plates, it gets harder and harder. And I think also our you know, our mind would play tricks and we'll tell you, you know, just do it after lunch, and then lunch comes around and then suddenly something else pops up and you know, don't feel like it, and then you push it to the evening and then the evening you're exhausted. So for me, getting the hardest thing than first being training is key.
Speaker 2:And then getting up at the same time, I found I mean a on the weekend. It's great, You're still building momentum. So rather than getting up late on the weekends, just getting up at the same time. But it's that consistent habit and it's about the small habits. So the consistency of like, take care of your bedtime routine, don't vary that too much, because also your body is kind of used to it. So even if I wasn't going to set the alarm, I'm going to still wake up naturally, probably at 5 30 at the latest on the weekends. Just my body is conditioned to that and it, I find it makes me feel good. Just the consistent approach to the early morning and yeah, that that, I think, is just, is it more natural way, rather than trying to vary it's day in, day in and day out, if you can.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would be. I would well, depending on I. I woke three more in a week so I'm up a little bit earlier, but I would be about probably half hour for the Monday, wednesday, friday when I woke cause we started at 6 AM in the gym. Even on me days off, I try and not get up any later before I told you it, no matter what, when I go to bed I try to stick to the to that same time for for waking and I find it, and as you said, it's getting that little bit of me time. You have a little routine. You've accomplished something before you leave the house, even if it's only a coffee and a bit of a raid. And, as you said, you know the day can travel up so many things actually. You know fatigue, obviously being on my own, but then just a few curve balls that won't prevent you from getting that training done if that's what your, if your thing, is trying to do tomorrow.
Speaker 2:And yeah, and especially with family, that you know kids will will throw your curve balls all day long.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Same with business, you know, and especially six of them.
Speaker 1:Jesus, I played here yeah. How was the training going at the minute? Are you trying to find anything in particular?
Speaker 2:Yeah, actually you're catching me at an interesting time. So on Sunday I'm I've signed up to do the bednevers ultra, which is part of the Salomon skyline, and I was always fiddling with the air conditioner. And that's it for now, but let's get started a little more. Ok, just a. So it's an ultra marathon 32 miles over a few more rows, including Benneves. So this is me kind of. What's the elevation on that? So it's about 4,000 meters up and down, which is not fun. I think that's probably the most brutal element of it. It's not the distance, it's the elevation, because that's just going to smoke your legs Coming down is the high part, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't even want to think about coming down there, so it's been interesting. I had a 16-week program and so hopefully ready for that now, but that's a lot of early mornings, a lot of early morning long runs recently.
Speaker 1:And do you find the hard with the horrible stuff and Daniel Nicweson, who doesn't know the horrible, trying and this kind of accommodation of strength and endurance? Do you find when the mileage is going up the strength suffers, or are you still keeping that balance?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So what I found is, I think, the hybrid being that kind of dual approach, so you're trying to progress in both and or at least progressing with one and keeping the other the same. So I found in the beginning of, especially, the 16-week block that my strength certainly went up at the same time as my endurance, but then at one point you're obviously favoring the endurance element a bit more, especially when you're doing long runs. So if you go out on the weekend for hours in the hills you're going to be a bit depleted. So what I've found, which is great, is I've made gains in those 16 weeks in terms of strength and they have stayed the same, but kind of halfway through they were kind of tapering off much more. But then the endurance side really really kicked in, which was absolutely amazing to see because I'm a bigger kind of person, kind of sitting around 90 kilograms.
Speaker 2:So, I'm not an ultra runner per se, so that's going to be interesting. You know, towing the start line with 65 kilogram guys and then girls, you know mountain girls all around you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, sticking with just some of the stuff that you've wrote and I just put, wrote down a few little notes here, I'll read them back, I'll read them out here, and then you can kind of just elaborate on them and one would be abandon victimhood. Could you elaborate on that for me?
Speaker 2:Yeah, abandoning victimhood is.
Speaker 2:I mean a lot of times when I write, I'm writing to myself, which is not meant to be kind of, you know, some sort of preaching to anybody else.
Speaker 2:It's really just for myself to say look, victimhood being when you just especially if you think about something like the big race coming up for myself now, where you will use any excuse in the book that you can draw on and just tell yourself you know, pull you and you know like your ankle hurts and you know this is not going right and you know the kids and you know, do you want to get up early and all of that, and you start getting quite negative quite quickly and trying to find excuses for not doing stuff, but actually realizing there is like, rather than I have to do something, like I get to do something.
Speaker 2:So there's so many people that don't have these opportunities Again going back to the run, so many people that are health wise, not able to do it, time wise not able to do it, might not live in this location or be able to travel to this location. So rather than throwing yourself a pity party, he's actually just turning it around and focusing on the gratitude element of saying I get to do this. It's amazing and be grateful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can test that. At the minute I'm actually sitting here with a bill on me like I snapped me tibia in half four weeks ago. So I focus on what I can do and not focus on what I can't. But I went from training every day to I'm still doing a little bit of up-up on my little back on the boy gaz up today. I've seen the consultant this morning but you do get it and that was a cliche. But you don't appreciate what you have until it's gone. Especially on mobility, you know I had to stay off for the first two weeks. I was in a cast and it was tough. It was a tough two weeks until I start getting mobile again. On the coaches for another four weeks left in the bill.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you probably angry at one point, right?
Speaker 1:You just angry that this happened Because I actually went back playing. I was the only endurance grant and I decided to go back and play field spark, you know, which is obviously the risk is higher because change the direction and the speed at a game and I spent a long time getting me body from runner-maritans to be able to go back playing the squad that I play.
Speaker 1:And I think I was going in about nine months in and everything's gone well, and I just, I just just torn and trying and we still got caught in the ground and I just heard a big snap. You know where you went through it. So yeah, you're kind of in saying, wouldn't they just stick to the endurance? And but then it was like you know I actually have no regrets.
Speaker 1:It's what I wanted to do, you know it's. It is where it is. That's the risk you take, and whether I go back to the owner or not now is another thing. I think I might just go back to runner-maritans for a while. It's safe, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, now definitely, I definitely hear you on that one. Definitely being right for the fact that you can grow up and mill round is probably something that we do, type of granted yeah, absolutely yeah, 10%. So another one True wealth has, not that they want money, but everything they were. How much you enrich the lawyers of others like that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think I mean the first thing kind of flashes to my mind here is back in school. Back in high school I had a lot of people that had a lot of money from their kind of families and we didn't, and it probably influenced me to a large degree in my kind of my early twenties where you're trying to kind of live up to a standard that you're putting in your own mind, where you're thinking, oh you know, everybody else had so much money that this, these sorts of cars, that must mean happiness, right. So that's, that's the number one thing is chasing whatever, whatever goal that that is. But actually what I and you know to, to be fair to for a large degree, to a large degree also, when I started university and went down the path that I went down, was probably hoping to hear what I need to provide from a family at one point, and that means certain amount of money, driving certain cars to show that you've made it and whatever.
Speaker 2:But in the process actually realizing that that didn't make me happy like that. That pursuit was not what made me happy. What made me really happy was being able to have time for my family, to be not always away, not a, not a dad who financially provides but isn't isn't present. So luckily I never went to that point, always had, you know, time with the kids and my wife and the rest, but really just kind of you know when that choice came.
Speaker 2:Okay, yet you know, do you go and apply for the big consultancy jobs, or do I go and try and stay in academia or Scottish government, potentially any of those kind of roles which had higher prestige, or do I go and work for charity? But I realized, like, in terms of finances, yes, there was high upside on the other element with the other jobs, but I had everything I needed here and then the most important thing was having time and making memories with, with my family, and coupled with that was actually the job that I was then doing was directly benefiting other people and was benefiting people that I had grown to, you know, see, kind of as part of my enlarged family to a degree, because I'd work with them for over 10 years and it's like well being, being a force for good for them, is way better than trying to chase a paycheck. So yeah, that was it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree with that one. Definitely. The point with the family is something that you don't get back. You know you don't get a lot like over an eight year old or two girls, eight and one and a half, but the eight year old already doesn't want to know me. So she's a what age of the kids?
Speaker 2:13 down to one.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, when my little ones find demons, she's a, she's a harmful, she's definitely harmful, but the siblings do help. Like we obviously have on in the tail, but yeah, you're always she's pretty good, or so the extra set of hands make a difference on the oh, 100%, yeah, I mean it's so.
Speaker 2:It's so beautiful to see when the, when the older ones, especially when I just they want to be with the baby, saying to him, play with them. Or I've got my oldest boy, you know, trying to show us little brother know about superheroes and all of that stuff, you know, which is just is so fun and it's great for them because they have that outlet. They have always have somebody at home that wants to play with them. So and then with that comes when they bring friends around, it's a super lively household. So you know from from my kind of time as an only child, this is a big change, but it's a positive change.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I grew up in a busy house. Now I've only overplotted an assist. I want me house was an open house, so it would have been just constantly people coming and going, and it's good it still is. My mother's house is still the same. You could walk me up to be far away. People at the table having a cup of tea yeah, yeah, so, cool. Another one for you. The most successful and happy people are now are real is about eliminating distractions.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Give us an example.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, eliminating distractions is probably is is something I think about a lot, especially when it comes to our kids. You know we had plenty of distractions without everything that's kind of being put in our hands in terms of even a phone, tablet or whatever else is there. So I found that the people especially again, if I think of also about the, the adults in the, in the charity, when, when I first came, you know all the, you know we were kind of the young volunteers. We're always thinking about all the other elements to our lives. We were like you know where we're going to go after this, when you know, going out for nightclub, making sure that we keep in touch with our friends, you know Facebook updates at the time and whatever, and even just in that small room, you were always pulled in all these different directions.
Speaker 2:And then I was working with people who were solely focused on a task. So they were like chopping wood and they were just focusing on that task and they were just they seemed super content, Whereas I was always like thinking about the next thing, and that was something that kind of stuck with me and I remember just even kind of through uni, always when I was at university and it was this business and you know, you know do this to that and you know I explained that. And every life kept getting faster and faster. And I came back to work at the charity People was were just happier. They, just they, the, the, the distractions were less and they seem to just enjoy life a bit more.
Speaker 2:And then from that I've also just found you know when, when I'm able to in my work, even if it's computer work, if I'm able to just eliminate distractions, you know, put the phone away out of sight. You know, and I've got an app now on my phone where I can't access social media between 9pm and 9am so I'm not tempted to stand there trying to like check on a post when the kids get up, for the account is fine, you know it's gone. So I'm focusing on the present, being there with them and and say me earlier in the mornings, you know, when you get up it's, say, 530 on a November morning in Scotland, it's cold and raining. The temptation to just scroll on some social media rather than getting out and hitting the weights is pretty high.
Speaker 2:Yeah but you know finding ways to eliminate that and then you will find true happiness.
Speaker 1:It's a hard one to master. It's something that would be on the same with the phone. I don't knock around for certain time and generally it's off, you know, around 7pm. It's a hard one to master but I would say it's probably one of the biggest for people at the minute.
Speaker 1:I was actually in the hospital today and I brought down a book because I did manage to sit there and we found and I was actually reading factfulness again. Have you read factfulness? No, never. And I was just looking around me and every single person in the there was maybe 20 people wanting to see the consultant and every single person was on the phone and it's just down to me, like it's. It's a big issue. You know it's mindless scrolling and we're all guilty of it, like I'm guilty of it myself at times, but you do have to make a conscious effort to say, really I'm not going to be on the phone at this same time. You know, and as you said, l-soy L-Moyant is great because if it's in, if it's within hands reach, you're going to pick it up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Another small hack I really like to use is I put my phone on grayscale during the day, so basically it becomes a black and white phone. It makes a huge difference, because just even the apps are just less appealing.
Speaker 2:So, you won't go on and just like stare at it for color's sake, because normally the colors then kind of draw you in and you know whether that's Instagram or whatever, because it's quite a color for kind of symbol. So if it's a black and white, you just kind of you go on it when you need to, but you don't find the same joy in just being on it, which is really really helpful.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. I never heard of that Great. What did you say? Was that an app or did you just do it on the settings?
Speaker 2:No, you can just set it in the settings on iOS. So just set it on grayscale. You can even use like a shortcut. I can quickly show you that here. So mine is like obviously not, it's on color right now, but if I press it like three times, it becomes black and white. Oh, that's cool. So suddenly it's just not as appealing. That's quite good, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, pretty interesting. Yeah, I found James Clare. I've seen you call with some of the stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what is sorry? What do you like most about the Atomic Habits book? If you've read it, you've obviously read it, have you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, a couple of times, yeah.
Speaker 1:I recommend it to a lot of people and anyone that I recommend. It seems to get a lot of it. I really enjoy it, Roy. Yeah, I think so too, yeah it's.
Speaker 2:I also really love the story behind it. You know somebody who started a blog, you know kind of a newsletter and all of that with it, and build this community of people really loving these ideas, kind of testing them out, refining them and, over years, starting to write a book about it, which is then just you know, some books get really hyped and you kind of feel like, do I really need to read this? Everybody's talking about it. That's one way you like want to pick it up. You're glad that you did. You know, and you know there's so many things in terms of like habit cues, which I think is one of the biggest things or biggest revelations really for me. Where you go, I know there's.
Speaker 2:You know, if you have a bad habit, whether that's snacking or putting on Netflix or scrolling or whatever, it's, actually a lot of times we do them because of a cue, because of something that, like always you know, so an easy one, being a lot of people sleep with their phone next to them and the first thing they do is to pick up the phone and then, you know, stare at it and scroll mindlessly and do all of that stuff. So for me, that was one where I realized suddenly hang on. So you know these early, early mornings, say wintertime, where I would just sit, and then suddenly just scroll for an extra 20 minutes and just cut my workout time in half and then being annoyed at it afterwards thinking you had only 40 minutes and then you have 20 minutes, are you not going to go out? And if you go out, it was a bit of a waste because of I don't even remember what I was scrolling.
Speaker 2:So to then, actually, you know, put a habit, put the, put the blocker on and actually saying, okay, my habit cue was go and sit and have a coffee and then kind of play with my phone for 20 minutes. It's like forget the coffee, have a glass of water. Phone doesn't have social media on it, just get out and just get going. So that was like that's a small thing for me, but identifying the cues that lead to habits is, I think, really really important, can also obviously work positively where you say I want to build positive habit cues.
Speaker 2:So it might be a come home and the phone goes on this shelf and the first thing I'll do is I hug my kids and I read them a story. Start, that, that's a beautiful habit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's. I like the cue for positively enforcement as well, Even with the. I like the way that he stacks the habits to where you have a habit that you've put in the head down and you appear open, something else that you want to do, which is really good. It's a good little, but I want to use the word hack, but it's a good way to build upon an already established habit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, for me that's a lot of times. It is actually the morning workouts which sometimes I listen to music, but I would say 99% I'll listen to a podcast or an audiobook. So it's that bit of like I want to learn something, I want to get exposed to new ideas. You know my commute isn't very long when I'm in the car with the kids. I'm not going to bore them to death with some. You know, either audio book or podcast that I'm interested in, because they're definitely not going to be interested in that. So you know I'll work out and listen to the book and you know that's fantastic. So that's a great hour.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and another one for you. I want everything in your world downright, behind excuses. People who admit their mistakes build trust. I really love that woman. I read it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that's probably going back to I don't know if you've have you read this one Extreme Ownership I have, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:By Jocko, yeah, yeah, massively influenced the way I've been kind of operating the last few years, especially at work, where you know it's easy and sometimes deceivingly easier things for somebody who makes a mistake to just try and hide behind it, hide behind somebody else or blame something else or go. You know, this wasn't my fault, somebody didn't tell me this, you know whatever else. But actually you know, and you might be doing it out of fear, thinking if I admit that I've done something wrong, the people that I work with will assume that I'm a lesser of a leader. I'm not as good, you know. But actually once you start saying I made a mistake, I messed this up, like whatever it is, I sent the wrong email, I put in the wrong figures in the spreadsheet or I said the meeting at the wrong time, whatever it is big or small, as soon as you can start owning that, what's going to happen is people are going to realize, oh, hang on, this person is transparent, he's accountable to himself, he's trustworthy or she's trustworthy, and they your leadership capital, something that also Jocko talks a lot about. So if you're thinking about some, some sort of currency and for leadership, for leader, it's a leadership capital. It's actually increased by that, because every time you hide behind something, you blame something else, you depleting your leadership capital because we go like you know, like we know was you know it was his fault, but he's not owning it but rather just stand up. It's a bit uncomfortable, but then people know hang on whenever he speaks or she speaks, it's a truth, and they will be way more trust trusting and I think that's the right way to approach that.
Speaker 1:Yeah it's. You need to show vulnerability as a leader. I think it's very important. And then I think even you can apply that to yourself as well, because if you do, if you're trying to achieve something, let's say it's a fitness goal and it's not happening for you, the easy thing is to look outward for excuses to what you yourself can't get to where you want to get to where you want to get to be, where, if you actually be honest with yourself and you know that extreme ownership is a great book for anyone who's listening, who hasn't read it you take ownership of yourself and admit to yourself as a person, which is not easy either. You know it's one thing. Admitting you're wrong to yourself. It's as far as probably even harder to admit from the world up here. But you have to start with yourself for the foremost and then, once you do that, you should be able to achieve the things you want to achieve.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I think it's a great example of what you brought up then in terms of fitness. You know, if you consistently, if you're trying to lose weight and it's not happening for you, it's like, well, it's very easy. You know like you need to achieve a caloric deficit. I mean, that's kind of the crux of the matter, really, and it's like well, are you measuring your intake? Do you know how much you're consuming or how much you're burning? Are you honest with yourself? Or are you trying to hide behind something and say, oh, the trainer is not giving me the right workouts and I'm not losing weight and stuff. No, actually, once you take that step of saying, hang on, I need to be honest and accountable to myself, that's super freeing, because then suddenly you realize, okay, well, but it's also all in my control, yeah, like I can change that and it's down to me, and that's fantastic. It's not down to the trainer, it's down to you. That's good.
Speaker 2:Control to control, that's all you can do isn't it yeah.
Speaker 1:But, what does a week look like for you? We're trying and split, like with the high risk stuff. What would it look like from Monday to Sunday?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think it depends a bit. It might depend a bit on the program and the phase, so there might be some slight variations, but generally speaking it would be like kind of a so Mondays sometimes it's double sessions, but generally on a Monday it might be it would be kind of lower, lower, lower strengths, so whether that's squats, lifts, whatever else is kind of applicable for that, and then on the Tuesday it will be upper body strength, so a lot of pulling, pushing, bench press, that sort of work. On a Wednesday it will traditionally kind of be a kind of list run, so a long interval, steady state run, so suddenly it's just kind of zone two kind of gets you going.
Speaker 2:Thursdays might be a rest day, sometimes, when, for instance for me I wasn't able to necessarily hit the two on a Monday because on the Monday you might have a second session. So on a Thursday I might do interval training, so especially heel sprints, which is just, you know, fantastic, fantastic to really heel sprints. Friday will be some sort of all body kind of attack, you know. So might be including burpees and more, maybe a bit more CrossFit style, as in you're really trying to tax the whole nervous system. And then Saturday, sunday, a long run. So, depending on how depleted you are after the Friday, depending on what you've got on, you know it will be that kind of if possible two hour plus run on the weekend. And, yeah, lately over the course of building up for especially, you know, the Ben Nevers, sometimes it was up to like four hours. You know, in the hurt.
Speaker 1:Have you done anything that long before, or is this your first time going after that distance?
Speaker 2:No, I've done the distance a few times. So one was we had there was an event called the Ultra Tour of Edinburgh, which was fantastic. It was like again similar distance, 30 miles plus just kind of really around the whole city through the hills and the old town and stuff, which was great. And I've done a few of the Spartan ultras. So if you're familiar with Spartan races they have you know this is Sprint, the Super and the Beast, and the Beast is kind of like the half marathon distance and the Ultra is doubling that plus a bit extra. So it's also like 30, 32 miles. Yeah, good times.
Speaker 1:I didn't know it went that far with the distance. That's insane.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It was similar with all the obstacles, the obstacles, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and sometimes they have a. They normally have a special surprise for the people that are doing the Ultra, so they will have, like, a wall that is a bit higher, or you know, when you're traversing sideways it's a wall that's a bit longer, a bucket that's a bit heavier, just to just to add a bit more sauce to the whole.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was looking at them like down to four even tank high ones, but I didn't think they went beyond the half marathon distance. Even Jesus, that sounds.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Some do Ultra, but in America they have longer ones. You know they'll have 24 hour races and stuff, so yeah, Jesus.
Speaker 1:I suppose that's where the high ground comes in handy 100%, 100%.
Speaker 2:And I think that's that's what I found, because I'm my kind of refitness journey started probably more with CrossFit, you know, discovered that in 2013. So it always been kind of always been into sports as a teenager, always kind of gone to the gym but not really knowing what I was doing apart from trying to bodybuild and roll. That was kind of the two things. So, in a way, already kind of hybrid, stylish in terms of trying to do endurance and strength at the same time, but didn't really know what I was doing. Discover CrossFit really really fell in love with it, just for the kind of even body transformation, just feeling way more stronger.
Speaker 2:And the funny element is also I always hated running. Growing up, absolutely detested running and CrossFit had a bit of running in it. I always thought I need to get better at it, but I don't want to go run. So these CrossFit workers was like a 400 meter run in it Seemed doable enough. Only once you do them do you realize how horrible it is. But so yeah, did that and then also trained up to be a CrossFit coach, did some classes here in Edinburgh, which was absolutely fantastic and great, great community, the people that do that. But yeah, so did a few events, and from that also came the Spartan stuff, which is where the hybrid kind of approach definitely is really, really helpful, because you're not just able to run but you're also able to carry the heavy buckets to pull yourself up and over the obstacles, and that I really like being able to be just functionally fit in all kind of realms.
Speaker 1:How long are you trying with Fergus?
Speaker 2:So I've been Fergus. So Fergus, a nominee performance. I'm just wondering when did I sign up? But I think it would have been close to a year now, would have been just at the end of last year, yeah, right.
Speaker 1:And how are you finding making a difference here? Phenomenal absolutely phenomenal.
Speaker 2:Yes, I said in terms of strength, it's still there where it was before I started, stronger, especially for this block. The one thing that really showed for me is that I've got a nearly half marathon loop here in the Pendant Hills that I've run regularly over the years and it's always been at like 2.15 was always kind of that was my fast when I was able to run. Well, I would run 2.15, but be completely spent at the end, and the last two weekends I was just when I was tapering off my training. I just ran that like really relaxed at two hours so I wasn't even pushing and that just showed me that it's just the base I've built up in. That training has been phenomenal.
Speaker 1:The engine is there.
Speaker 2:yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fantastic feeling.
Speaker 1:It's a great feeling. I do miss it. Now I have to say I miss the run when I get up Now that your legs can take you anywhere, really big for a very, very long period of time. Now the longest I went was just 50 kilometers Because I was training for last year. I went sub-tree in the marathon. That's what my main goal was in Paris. I was planning on going into the ultras after that. I couldn't justify training more to knock five minutes off a marathon. You know, like the goal. The goal was sub-tree. I went sub-tree and then I was kind of like the mileage to get better. The mileage was just, it was too much, you know, and I was just like.
Speaker 1:I'm going to go where, not so much the mileage but also the intensity of some of the workouts. That because the culture of his workouts were pretty intense, like you know. Probably tree and easy tree hard, but sub-tree is really fast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So now I was, I signed up with the coach about 16 weeks out and I was kind of giving me half-marathon time and he assured me that I would go on that trail. I didn't believe in myself, to be honest, until I don't have half-marathon three weeks out, and I flew it and I kind of knew. Then I said, would you, you know, when you don't know you're in the training block and you haven't raced, yeah, You're kind of you haven't eaten, you know it's, you know, I think about a four to fifteen pace and I don't have marathon. And I kind of said to myself, okay, I think we can do this, you know.
Speaker 1:And I actually don't know, I got in behind the pace up and I didn't even look at me watch, I just said, but the race pace that he had on the day, yeah, and yeah, it was a great achievement. But I did find it quite anticlimactic, to be honest, because for me I suppose the process is where it's at. You know, that's my, my, my boss is like I love the structure of check, like having that goal, but the process, for me it's what it's all about. And I look back.
Speaker 1:I look back on it and say, wait, that you know that was a good achievement. But at the time when I come out of the line I was kind of like you know what now? Do you know what I mean? It wasn't. I didn't get this big kind of euphoria that I thought I would have got. Yeah, but as I said, when I look back, it was around the time that maybe the art was born as well. So I was juggling the newborn and trying and so I suppose it was and then achieving that is that is fantastic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but yeah, looking back on it, definitely, yeah, appreciate it more, but I do. I do find that I'm the type of person that really enjoys the process of just trying. Yeah, I do love events, the own events and stuff like that, but the training is where it's at for me, you know. To start, it today today, today itself.
Speaker 2:That's it. That's it. Yeah, it's interesting. I just during my last run, I was listening to a podcast with Alex Homose and he was saying that he's the same. You know where he's like. Once it's achieved, he's like and now what? So, he said he's just setting himself these ridiculous goals, which are just, basically, he's just going to be always in the pursuit, because in the pursuit is where the magic happens for him. It's like that's what he loves to do.
Speaker 2:You know so yeah, I think it's a great mindset and realizing that's how you work, rather than getting just crushed by it, just saying that's the way.
Speaker 1:I work best. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's, it's different when I, when I play, when I play the, the, the sport I was telling you about it's, I think I was still looking for that pose and I was trying to replicate the pose I felt when I won a match. I, you know, I just never got that.
Speaker 1:You know, I could never get away race, no matter what Cause I love. I think you know when you win a match and you know it's a tough game, it's physical, it's a physical sport. There's no better feeling than you will be on a hoiva days after it, where they found one of. Every time I raced even if it was a four year tank high race I'll ever be. We could really enjoy it. But the buzzer, be sure I lived. You know I wouldn't have that euphoria for the week the way I would. If you win a game, maybe it's the fact that you're winning all that people as a team sport, and you know the enjoy is is a lonely. It's a lonely space to be in at times, isn't it?
Speaker 2:That's right. That's right, absolutely. Yeah, it kind of throws me back a bit because I I did a big event for me at least big event in back in 2016. It's called the Seaford Kokoro Camp. I don't know if you've you've come across it. It's a. It's a civilian style kind of Navy SEAL Hell Week simulation sort of thing.
Speaker 1:You're a gloom for punishment, Taobi. You know that I do, I do. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think it's. It's about, you know, just just testing yourself, just kind of finding these things. So yeah, that was that was a. That was a 52 hour nonstop event, no sleep, nothing. You know. It was just like in and out of the oceans, log, pt, all like all the stuff you've seen, probably on, so completely crazy. But the interesting element was, again, looking back, the training. I was like I was so dialed in, I was doing like I remember February rain. I just went out with the t-shirt. I mean burpees on the concrete, you know, just like trying to get like tough for that event.
Speaker 2:And then the event happened and I was just like I was so happy I'd done it because I was so afraid before, and but I didn't have anything set afterwards and it was just this massive crush of just suddenly like I've done it, but no, what? Like I assumed something was waiting at the other end which which just never came Right. So you need to then go, like you said. Well, maybe it is. It's not about not appreciating what you've done, but it's about making sure that, if you're wired that way, have something else afterwards, something else that you're going to train for, so you're also not losing all the gains, because it's pointless spending like 12 weeks getting ready for something and then doing it and then, you know, going downhill again and then having to build yourself back up.
Speaker 1:And I think that is is common enough, where people will try and for an event and then you know they say with, even with some Oryman events, it's one and the only people go to trying for an Oryman or a marathon and then they never do it again Because to get this big crash and then they can't get back on the wagon then after. But I think it's a good idea to maybe have, you know, maybe multiple events and you know, to a tree, maybe after you have and you don't even have to be as big or as grand it could be you deal with a marathon, maybe have a 10K or a half more than books you know.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, just something so you can't fall off the wagon fully. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:It's that you actually have. You actually have to pay to go into that, so you're paying for that 50 to hour punishment, oh yeah. Oh sounds crazy, Sounds absolutely crazy. I'm not going to keep you much longer now You're a busy man. One more question before you go yeah, Tree book recommendations kind of like. I don't know Self help, you know habits, whatever you think lifestyle, maybe anything that you think would benefit someone to rate.
Speaker 2:All right, okay, that's pretty easy, I can just. I just turn around, right. So the first one, I would definitely say extreme ownership. Yeah, that's that's number one. Golden Second one is maybe a bit more obscure, is by Cameron Haynes. I don't know if you know who Cameron Haynes is.
Speaker 1:I've heard of him. I've seen him on Rao. I've seen him a couple of times. Yeah, I didn't know we had a book now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he is absolutely amazing. Yeah, I think I've gone through, including the audiobook, like five times probably.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, cameron Haynes being. I mean, he's very much in that realm of what we're just talking about it. He's a bow hunter, which for anybody in the UK is probably very alien because you can't do it here and it's a very American thing. Yeah, I guess, but that's not what I find so fascinating about him. But I really found fascinating is somebody who spent 25, 30 years working a nine to five, just normal nine to five, being like a super reliable, just down to earth worker, but getting up early in the morning when he was training for ultra mouthings, which he did many. He ran like he ran Boston with with Lance Armstrong.
Speaker 1:Was he doing more?
Speaker 2:than a day. He was yeah, so he was doing he was doing a marathon a day, not necessarily the distance in one go, so he might split it, so you would do some in the morning run some at lunchtime and then in the evening, but just the dedication. I mean, that's just somebody.
Speaker 1:Well, he was doing a nine to four. He was doing that as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, all at the same time. So, it's interesting because sometimes you know as much as I admire that at the same time I think, the cost. So, for instance, if you have a family, it's very, very high.
Speaker 2:It's a price I wouldn't be willing to pay personally, because you know, but I still find this absolutely admirable and wouldn't want to take anything away from from his success. So, reading somebody like him, like him, you just think which would be the, the third one. We've talked about atomic habits already, so there's a have to be. Let me just see. No, probably, I probably go with. This is just an old timer, but it's just for a work week to know Tim Ferriss, tim Ferriss, yeah, again.
Speaker 2:I just think the way that the world has evolved and there's so much, so much we can we can take from you know, with what happened with COVID and then kind of work life balance and finding ways to be, to work maybe a bit smarter, and I think a lot of people, even within our work, people just starting, like little side businesses, to to fulfill a little dream of pursuing their own goals, which are different from the nine to five For a work week, is absolutely eyeopening, I think, for for people to show them there are other ways of working and there are other ways of structuring your time.
Speaker 2:Plus, I think, the other element being there are ways of you employing also other people and delegate to them to get work done. Now, this doesn't have to be somebody being a solopreneur online, having a virtual assistant doing all the work. It is also for leaders in a normal business. It's like who else could do that work to free you up, to do, to move the business forward, and also for people that want to do that part of the work and you might be hogging it. So is that? Is there something that you give somebody else to help them rise up to the next challenge? So I've I've read the four work with a few times and I found it always really really helpful.
Speaker 1:So those three yeah, they're three goons, three good work. I haven't read. I've read the four work week and an extreme ownership, but I haven't read the Cameron Hines one boy, I'll definitely, I'll definitely purchase it and give it away or maybe I'll I might grab it on the article.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the audiobook. He reads it himself, and I always find authors reading their own books is the best because it comes straight from them.
Speaker 1:It's absolutely fantastic. Yeah, toby, thanks very much for coming on. I really appreciate you giving up your time.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely Pleasure.
Speaker 1:What's great talking to anyone that's listening, wants to connect with you. Where is the best place to find you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, if probably on Twitter or on Instagram it's Toby with an I, so to be I, and then underscore Emmons, em, onts. Yeah, you'll find me there and love to connect with people, especially if you've seen it and you know. Let us know what you, what you, took from this. Anything helpful? Always love hearing that. That would be, that would be great.
Speaker 1:I have to say I'm really enjoying the articles of, of, of being reading them over the last couple of weeks and I think that extremely helpful. So for anyone that's listening, toby's articles are really second to none of from my idea, with that reading online. Just really really good articles, really helpful, really practical and actionable, I would say.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, that's really kind.
Speaker 1:Thanks Toby.