Burnout In Health Care Professionals With Amy Felix, RN

In this episode, I, your host, Dr. Tomi Mitchell, had the pleasure of interviewing the beautiful Amy Felix

Biography:

Amy Felix is a Nurse Leader, Public Speaker, Thought Leader and a Pediatric Nurse Practitioner. With over  17 years of nursing experience, Amy has worked in high paced pediatric critical care, emergency care, and ambulatory settings which has allowed her work on projects to improve the quality of care of behavioral health patients in acute care settings, development of a treatment program for patients with chronic disorders, and increase patient access to their electronic health record. In her role as a nurse leader, she currently manages over 40 direct reports and leads enterprise workstreams on professional development and flexible staffing models. Her current passion lies in assessing burnout in Advanced Practice Providers and to developing a culture of wellness for health care providers in the hospital setting.

Key Takeaways:


Contact Information:

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/amy-felix-10628694

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Amy Felix, Dr. Tomi Mitchell

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  00:08

Hello everyone, this is your host Dr. Tomi Mitchell from the Mental Health and Wellness Show. Today I have the pleasure of introducing Amy Felix. She is a nurse leader, public speaker, thought leader and a pediatric nurse practitioner. With over 17 years of nursing experience, Amy has worked in high pace pediatric critical care, emergency care and ambulatory settings, which has allowed her to work on projects to improve the quality of care of behavioral health patients in acute care settings development of a treatment program for patients with chronic disorders and increase patient access to the electronic health records. In her role as a nurse leader. She currently manages over 40 direct reports and leads enterprise workstreams on professional development and flexible staffing models. Her current passion lies in assessing burnout and advanced practice providers and to developing a culture of wellness for healthcare providers in the hospital setting. Amy, I suppose to say thank you, you know, a couple things about you that resonated with me that well, number one, you are a pediatric nurse practitioner, I love kids. 

Amy Felix  01:18

Mmm, Awesome.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  01:19

I initially went to family practice and that's also part of the reason I diverse away from it. But anyway, long story. And I am a healthcare provider that is my first career. 

Amy Felix  01:32

Yes.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  01:33

You know, started in early 2000s going into medical school.

Amy Felix  01:37

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  01:39

You can take it lid into your grip.

Amy Felix  01:43

It does. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  01:44

Uh huh. And then a hospital setting, which I'm all too familiar with. And you're a woman's too of those sisters. This is great. 

Amy Felix  01:51

Yeah. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  01:51

So, ah do you mind sharing a little bit about yourself to the reader so they can catch your essence? 

Amy Felix  01:56

Oh, absolutely. So first of all, Dr. Tony, thank you so much for having me on this. As I was telling you earlier, it's my first podcast. But I'm super excited to be here to just kind of talk about my current passion. So as you're alluded to, I am a pediatric nurse practitioner by trade. I've been in the nursing field for over 17 years with just various interests, I can always say that I truly love being a nurse and kind of shared those passions that you or the sentiments you alluded to, by jumping into it in the 2000s and just riveting ready to go. And you know, over the course of my career, there have been moments where I'm like, Wow, I'm tired. Wow, I'm a little more exhausted. Wow, I think I want to do something different. And never really being able to quantify what that meant. Did it mean I just needed to find another job? Did I need to find another specialty that I need to work somewhere else? And have come to this point where now I realize wellness is super important for clinicians, as we are providers naturally, and we're always taking care of others. But how do we care for ourselves so that we can continue to do the work that we do.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  02:59

Exactly? How do we take care of ourselves? I don't know about you, but I've noticed a lot of care providers, and I am one and I'm guilty. So I'm not pointing fingers and I'm not pointing like I'm pointing fingers like other than myself, I was not taking care of myself. Like I wasn't like, you know, doing drugs and getting wasted and doing all that stuff. But I wasn't doing I wasn't exercising. I wasn't meditating. I wasn't having quality time. I wasn't making my health my number one priority, because I was too busy, either studying, studying, studying. And then when I got into my residency, it's like seeing patients and patients and patients and patients and private practice. Well, let's see more patients. You got to run your business, you got to do paperwork. 

Amy Felix  03:41

Exactly.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  03:41

There's so many records you have to go through. Right? 

Amy Felix  03:44

Exactly. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  03:45

Overwhelming. 

Amy Felix  03:45

It is overwhelming. And I don't think we bring it to attention and that I think people see it as the norm. And that's the piece that I feel like I'm ready to kind of shake up within the nursing field little by little because I don't think it's normal. When I worked in the ICU, my first job was in a pediatric ICU with 54 beds and took care of the sickest of the sickest patients. And our running joke was, we didn't use the bathroom all day. How is that funny, right? For that was a critical joke and so we have bladder scanners. And at the end of the shift, we would see who could hold the most urine. So yeah, it was nursing humor, but when I thought about it was like my poor bladder. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  04:21

Yeah.

Amy Felix  04:21

I did not use that in 12 hours. That is not normal.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  04:24

I did that too. Like I haven't thought about this in years. But yeah, that was a joke. That's like, you know, it was like, Oh, we have a bladder infection now, like, we're gonna explode like it was just the norm. Then we didn't know that for kids before I had kids was easy to hold my bladder. Oh, yeah. 

Amy Felix  04:40

Right. So when I look at those things as we take us like health care providers, like Oh, that's okay. Like we didn't use a bathroom for a day or we didn't eat lunch. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  04:49

I know. 

Amy Felix  04:49

And I'm starving at the end of an overnight shift for a day shift. Wait a minute, but we're caring for people and we're telling them to practice optimal health but I'm not doing the same for ourselves. A little contradictory.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  05:01

What do you mean? Like we're supposed to be like superheroes like, healthcare writers are not human? We are like, machines, robots need to be there when the patient needs us at 2 in the morning, at six in the morning, we don't have families. I mean, what are you talking about? 

Amy Felix  05:16

Well, that's the piece and the conception that I want to break up. I mean, the idea that you know, and this healthcare system we live in, in the US, it truly is like, get access to care anytime you can reach a provider at any time. I've worked in different, oh, yeah. I've been, I've worked in roles where I've been on call at 2 am, or you know, 3pm or on a weekend or the holiday right. And so I think that's one of the good things when we think about the US healthcare system, but the downfall is its providers. And you know, we're seeing that now is headline after headline is talking about what is going on, post the pandemic and how be it's affecting healthcare providers.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  05:55

100% And you know, what, if this pandemic I called the burnout pandemic, or mental health crisis started long before the pandemic, y'all anyone is listening. I'm like, No, I've been annoyed is, very annoyed. Felt very taking for granted, the system is crazy, like, it's not worth the pay on your body mentally, physically, something has to change, accountability needs to change what's happening. Hello, we read all these things, these principles that gold standards at work, why aren't applying what we know as a system? Hello? Anyone listening?

Amy Felix  06:31

Exactly. And I say, say hello again? Can you hear me?

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  06:36

Pilots can't fly for 24 hours, 36 hours, 72 hours. Why are we supposed to fly for weeks, months on end? Some of us just asking for a friend.

Amy Felix  06:45

100%.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  06:48

Why?

Amy Felix  06:48

And I mean, I think you mentioned something that, this is been going on for decades and years, it's almost like this is the expectation.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  06:55

It is.

Amy Felix  06:56

Is it brought it to light. It's not because of COVID.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  06:58

No.

Amy Felix  06:58

COVID just highlighted it more.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  07:00

Thank you Amy, COVID brought this and a whole lot of other have some light. It's nothing. It's not COVID, it was there before. 

Amy Felix  07:07

A 100%. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  07:08

Uh huh. Because now they're running to the hospital because they now they really need us. 

Amy Felix  07:12

Mm hmm. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  07:13

Wow. So what's the solution? Like, where do we go? Because I think it's very clear that I get this burnout, this thing is real. And it's in our healthcare structures, whether physicians, nurses, PA, whatever, we glorify working hard, long hours, and being up all night and rounding on 20 patients at once. And intubating three people a month. So what do we do?

Amy Felix  07:41

So I honestly think the solution is multifaceted. And there are multiple components to it. The first one is it starts from a hospital practice area culture, a hospital can define the culture of its employees. They have the power.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  07:55

BINGO! Sorry, I just I just couldn't help myself. It starts number one for all you leaders out there you define the culture. Yeah.

Amy Felix  08:05

You define the concern. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  08:06

So, hey, sorry, it's my inside voice coming out. I'm excited. Okay, go ahead.

Amy Felix  08:11

Right. And so I think, you know, as part of my leadership, and when I started in my role, it was apparent to me my team was burned out. I did a survey, but I didn't need the survey results in order to see that. And so what were the changes that I could actually make to impact their wellness, right? Is it the way that we did our shift times, it's the expectations of responses from emails, just because I may be working at nine o'clock on a Friday night, do I need to send you that email for you to feel like you need to respond. It's those simple little things that can shift the mindset of how we work. And so I say from a hospital standpoint, if there's a cultural shift from hospital and leadership that can impact the well being of an entire team, a unit, a department, 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  08:51

That's huge.

Amy Felix  08:52

It's my primary reason.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  08:54

Yeah, okay, so you're saying we should start from top, I'm assuming go down.

Amy Felix  08:58

We are starting from the top. So you talk about hospital. And then leaders have to determine how they function as leaders. I think COVID taught me a lot of things about my leadership and things that I had to learn about myself and how I wanted to take care of myself in order to effectively lead a team. And as leaders or managers or supervisors, again, we can affect that change by leading by example, right? Setting realistic expectations for team members. And then third, I think there is some individual accountability or component to it where you have to determine what does wellness look like for you, you may be watching me do yoga or meditating and say, that's crazy, that's not for me, but you enjoy doing hikes in the park or hanging out with your friends, whatever it is that makes you feel well, that brings you joy things and decide to actually do them rather than just saying I'm too busy because I'm always working.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  09:46

Exactly. And I like how you put that bare of it. The individual accountability piece that we actually have to do something like we have to exercise do something we enjoy you mean have hobbies? Is that what you're saying? I mean like?

Amy Felix  09:59

No idea of like hobbies, like you can do something. Isn't that cool? 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  10:04

Does it mean, does that but it's running for our code count as a hobby. You know, there is a.

Amy Felix  10:07

No.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  10:08

No? Oh okay. Sassy to my friend.

Amy Felix  10:10

No, none. Running two codes do not count. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  10:16

That was enough exercise. 

Amy Felix  10:17

Yeah, it's only, I think as all as clinicians, we all get a lot of steps in so those some things don't come on hobby.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  10:23

Yeah, and you know, we get we say we get lot of steps. But uh, how come it doesn't necessarily show in a lot of it? I'm just, you know again it was asking as a friend.

Amy Felix  10:33

Because we don't have healthy eating habits, of course. I mean, if you're, if you're not eating all day, and you're eating one meal, and it's probably everything you can find at whatever hour, I mean, you know it's postponed. It's right. You should know this because we're healthcare providers. But maybe it only applies to our patients and not to the actual people.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  10:52

I thought, yeah, I thought it was just one way giving them their diabetic counts that we tell them to exercise and have a low salt diet. 

Amy Felix  10:59

Exactly. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  11:00

Ahh, so advise us to.

Amy Felix  11:01

Yes. It does.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  11:02

Oh, why? Why is that important?

Amy Felix  11:04

I mean, if we think about what we've learned in rowers, nutrition classes and anatomy, clearly, clearly, we need to make sure that we are providing the appropriate nutrients for a buyer to function at this highest level, my running joke in my seconds in my first running joke that, my running joke was that around noon, we'd be in the middle of clinic session, and they could see my energy start just drifting, and get really snappy. And my medical system would always come to me say, Do you want a piece of chocolate? I was like, No, I'm okay. She's like, No, you needed the chocolate right? Oh, I am I have definitely diagnosed myself that I get hungry I got allergy thats why I always have snack. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  11:47

Yeah.

Amy Felix  11:47

But even so just the functioning level, right? Like, you must realize that when you're depleting your body, whether it's through hydration or nutrition, right, is your mind functioning at the best capacity? And if it's not, what does that translate to into how you provide patient care?

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  12:01

So probably wouldn't be a good idea to go on to a surgery when  hungry, you know what I'm saying I'm making decision when hungry.

Amy Felix  12:07

Wouldn't be good. It wouldn't be good for me. But you know, I would individually credibility, you may want to reassess it. That's your norm.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  12:15

Yeah. Hmm. That's something else. Hmm. So if the leaders change, change the culture makes wellness an expectation, not by guilt, but it's like everyone is participating. It's built in the scheduling. It's builts in the brakes. It's built in incentivization perhaps and then it trickles down and then those in that structure do their part and ask help. And they have a place where they can ask help and not feel judged. And catch us ties. You mean, that's gonna help Amy, like I'm used. I'm not. Where is this place you're talking about? Can you tell me.

Amy Felix  12:51

I don't, so I haven't discovered this place yet so i didn't have.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  12:57

Okay, so it's utopia,so we're being hopeful. 

Amy Felix  12:59

It's, it's utopia. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  13:00

Okay.

Amy Felix  13:00

But I think you aim high, right?

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  13:02

100% go big go home.

Amy Felix  13:03

Big go. We go big we go home.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  13:06

Yesterday. 

Amy Felix  13:06

I think this whole idea that these principles can get us there one step at a time.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  13:10

100% and you know, is joking as I am, it works because like I said, those of you know me for a long time, or since I've been on this podcast, I was burnt out I was a health care provider who after over a decade of clinical practice running my own practice and having two babies at my second was eight months old and I'm like, and I was working I didn't have a maternity leave or year off, I was burnt out and then the pandemic I was done and it was like something's gotta give right you're like I love my job but something needs to change and if we don't make changes it's not good like chronic illnesses, stress mental health challenges, join a weight gain relationships fall apart, problematic coping strategies, whatever many things that can happen but there's hope right?

Amy Felix  13:57

Agree.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  13:57

I know if I.

Amy Felix  13:58

There is hope.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  13:59

Yeah, my patients just tell me I was a workaholic. And I'll be like, No, I'm not I just have work to do and you have lots of health concerns that you're asking me and it's my duty to help you and I got feels okay, but I denied it. But then I was like, Wow, maybe I'm putting this unrealistic expectation on myself. Maybe it's the same tricks that helped me get into medical school stay into medical school and get through residency have the same traits that's now kicking me in, their overdraft.

Amy Felix  14:29

Yep.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  14:29

The double edged sword.

Amy Felix  14:31

And so the light bulb went off.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  14:32

Exactly.

Amy Felix  14:33

For you. Yeah.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  14:34

Yeah. And I looked at my little kids because I went to in family medicine not because it was like you know rolling in the dough and it was easy. I didn't actually very hard, to be a good family doc, you have to know a whole lot of stuff and know them well. Okay. And I went into because I thought it will help my family which it had, helped my community etc, which it did, but I lost sight of what was most important, or myself sound selfish. 

Amy Felix  14:57

Yeah.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  14:57

Yeah, you your listeners. You are the most important because you have a purpose on this earth. And if you're not in good shape, you're unhealthy. You're not. You're beside yourself how you supposed to achieve your purpose mission? 

Amy Felix  15:09

Exactly. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  15:10

Wow. 

Amy Felix  15:10

Exactly. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  15:11

So kind of shifting gears a little. 

Amy Felix  15:13

That's like I'm, sure. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  15:14

So you know, this pandemic, you know, it's been around for a while now, what's new with us? Like to say the aliens? 

Amy Felix  15:20

Trying to speak.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  15:21

Yeah, it's here.

Amy Felix  15:23

That's a good analogy. Actually, I've never heard of it described that way. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  15:26

I call it Megatron, the new variant. And they'll when this gets recorded, maybe there's gonna be like, another one thinking of a transformer, avenger, third eye, common, but face have burnout, do you think it's changed? You think it's the same? Like so deep question? I'll tell you my thoughts after you answer. Yeah, the makeup of burnout because it changed in healthcare providers floors and.

Amy Felix  15:50

I wonder, I wonder if the question is more has it changed? Or it's now more apparent? 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  15:53

It could, you could answer either way. 

Amy Felix  15:54

The people actually acknowledging it, yeah. I think what we thought was normal. And we should just be doing this the way that we've been doing it for however long we've been doing it for because this is the way to do it is the idea where now people are taking a step back and saying, but why? Why am I doing it this way, which is what you just alluded to and describing, you know, your transition and you're moving through medical school in your own practice and whatnot, and then having that lightbulb moment, which then makes it seem like it doesn't look too different, right? Because people are like, Yeah, I am exhausted. And that's not a normal statement to say. We shouldn't be just always saying that. We're always exhausted all the time.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  16:30

Yeah. And you know, you mentioned just not to digress. You mentioned lightbulb moment, there were actually many moments I just be what, alloted the wires and put involved in on the same breaker switch to explode it, so it wasn't just one. 

Amy Felix  16:46

The light bulb moment, got it. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  16:48

It was, I always stubborn. Okay. I taught going to school and survived. You know, having three brothers you have to be stubborn, you know, what do you mean? I can't. 

Amy Felix  16:58

Right.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  16:59

Yes I can, yes I can.

Amy Felix  17:01

Right, and I'm gonna show you.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  17:04

Change has gonna come, yes, it can, I have a dream. Yes, I can do this. Yes, a lot of history went into that. 

Amy Felix  17:13

I'm sure it did. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  17:14

Mm hmm. So back to the question about burnout. Has it changed since the pandemic?

Amy Felix  17:19

I think it has? 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  17:20

Okay. 

Amy Felix  17:21

I honestly think it has, I think the recognition of it that people who are stating that their burndown has completely changed for the pandemic. And it'll be interesting to see how it continues, honestly.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  17:30

Yeah, definitely. I agree. I do think it's changed. And I also think that things that were already there are more are intensified more. There's a term which many people use called moral injury, right. It was originally brought up after World War, the wars when soldiers witness horrendous and things hand rendus conditions, and they'll just be so delusioned and so frustrated, right? So comparing it to the pandemic, to me, this is like a war. It's like mass casualties, like in the US just had over a time of this 480,000 people that we know that died as a direct result of COVID. 

Amy Felix  18:07

Exactly. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  18:07

That is huge. And seeing working in conditions in states or provinces where we are in the world, and you know that had this not been a during a pandemic, this person would have received ABCDE treatment. And now they're lucky if they get a right?

Amy Felix  18:24

Some places. I mean, some places are recording high grade. So like, yeah.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  18:28

Yeah, they're waiting in the waiting room in the hallway, sucking on room air at 72%. Oh, tap those two sets and delusional, yeah, like it's bad. 

Amy Felix  18:37

Right. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  18:38

That's demoralizing. Because I don't know about you. I'm like an empath. I feel people's pain. And it's a good thing. But it's also a hard thing when wars around you, but you can't avoid it. There's so much hurt and.

Amy Felix  18:49

Well I think they're, sorry, go ahead.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  18:51

No, go ahead. 

Amy Felix  18:51

No, I think there's so much hurt. But I think it's also this idea. As clinicians, we want to be able to provide the best care, we were trained to give care to make you better. So when you feel like you can't give the best care as we think about health care providers throughout the last 2021 months, great, being in situations where they feel like they can't and that patient might be in the hallway for a while because they just can't get to them. Because there's so many other. That in itself is exhausting. And definitely speak to that idea that you're describing is more injury. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  19:21

100%.

Amy Felix  19:22

That's a difficult term to use.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  19:23

Thank you. So that's the main thing for those of you who are not physicians listening because I've I've heard people post about physician burnout. And I've seen very supportive comments from psychologists saying, this is LinkedIn. They're like, You guys asked for this. You guys are fine. Why do you want me and this is like a site girl. And I'm just like, oh, I don't pick up but I was like, really? We're fine. We asked for this. Oh, I don't know. In my years of practice, this was never what I was born for.

Amy Felix  19:53

No, this wasn't what you aspire to. You know.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  19:56

No, no, ground zero. No, we didn't ask for this and it's exhausted, and not only that it has put strings there ready strain system has been strained even more like look, man, woman power. Okay, let's look ICU nursing people okay, despite hike make more nurses, do you know how many year it takes to properly train an ICU nurse much just like properly, okay.

Amy Felix  20:21

Yeah.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  20:21

Like fully bake. You can't do a fast turnaround during the, even if you started they want to pandemic till now, you will still not have a thouroughly, properly bedded ICU nurse.

Amy Felix  20:32

Who is capable of providing the best care possible, who has that knowledge base and that skill set? 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  20:37

Yes. 

Amy Felix  20:38

I mean, having been an ICU nurse, I can honestly tell you in the first year, you know, we were still learning the bits and pieces and it takes a while for you to feel like in that moment, I know exactly what to do for this patient. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  20:48

Yeah, exactly. And if you trained in a place where your rotations are limited because of lockdown, and because your learning on Zoom, I'm sorry, leaders. Please help these individuals. 

Amy Felix  21:00

Yup. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  21:01

That to be creative because they're gonna feel, I know this is why we're talking they're gonna feel inakward. Like I was thankful to have learned pre pre pandemic like me, are you like dinosaurs, even though I look like that?

Amy Felix  21:12

Crusify, in other way.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  21:14

Yes crusify we're just walking the hospitals. I'm walking into Emory or gravy, whatever just to let go and seeing a patient and touching people and not partly however wearing a mask. Yeah, washing my hands. But I didn't, my piece, hands on free touching, practicing procedural skills. 

Amy Felix  21:33

Yeah. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  21:33

Or where if even if you're an ICU rotation? Yeah, you could be in the worst, the high acuity side, but every patient wasn't like on death's door. 

Amy Felix  21:42

A 100%. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  21:43

Atleast that was my memory. Was that your memory too?

Amy Felix  21:45

Oh, it was it was nothing my memory. I mean, we just think about in the hospital systems. Now the acuity is so much higher. It's so much higher, and some of it may be COVID related, but it's not. It's just evolution, the patient's progression of their disease. And that's a lot of burden on a clinician anyday, especially if you were trained, let's say in the pandemic with limited access to hands on training.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  22:07

Yeah, those are the ones I really worry for the most, because I don't know for me, I'm older school. It's when I heard it first at facebook.com, I call it the corona pocalypse, December 2029. I was like, Okay, it's coming is just gonna tear up this world. Because I spent flashback to my microbiology class, like.

Amy Felix  22:27

Oh my god.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  22:29

Behavior, psychology, the fact that we have modern era plants. I was like, okay, coop, is about to hit the fan things gonna get real people like, What are you talking about? It's just in Wuhan. Like me worried. 

Amy Felix  22:31

It's not a big deal right.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  22:42

I'm like, yeah, I didn't pay attention to past. I read that book. That's a reason why I had to write and study and study and study. I knew it. I was, like I told you.

Amy Felix  22:55

Right?

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  22:57

The writing's is on the wall. 

Amy Felix  22:58

It is.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  22:59

It really is. And, you know, it's like, this is not going to go away like that. It's just not. That it's not. It's not at all, we know how, we went to school, I know how viruses mutate, this is normal. This happened is normal for viruses

Amy Felix  23:15

For viruses, right? And we have that knowledge to understand that piece. So I get those who may not have had that, you know, microbiology training, those years of experience, which makes us realize that if this is now going to continue this essence, we have to shift.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  23:29

Yeah. 

Amy Felix  23:30

We as hospitals and leaders and how, it does. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  23:33

Thank you!

Amy Felix  23:33

We have to shift what was did before, what was expectable and it's not going to work.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  23:38

How world is over? The world is over. 

Amy Felix  23:43

It is.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  23:43

Like how long are the dog gonna chase it's tail?

Amy Felix  23:45

There still a lot of people just chasing their tails.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  23:49

Or they, you know, with now we docked the ears and tight what they do the tail like caff into the key heart. Right?

Amy Felix  23:57

Right, so.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  23:58

We need like a complete shift in mentality. 

Amy Felix  24:02

Exactly.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  24:03

Right? There's not enough healthcare workers to do the job. Right? Even if you're Superwoman and superheroes and your sole efficient and your high speed, you can't stay high speed forever.

Amy Felix  24:14

Exactly. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  24:16

You burned out.

Amy Felix  24:16

And so how do we support you burn out and you know, there's been some talk about just creating more nurses well great right? But there are more positions but look at the systems that are in place, is that feasible for everybody? Is that possible when we think about other challenges you may face to just get in school whether it be school loans right so it's an overall systematic piece we we're saying just turn more people out?  Not possible, not feasible. We need to fix the system.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  24:41

Yeah. Yes, exactly. Starts from the foundation. You don't just like wake up and like in medical school. I've got a quarter million dollars of loans. Whoa.

Amy Felix  24:55

Excited for me, yes, do this.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  25:00

Yeah, you got to repay those student loans come in, you know.

Amy Felix  25:03

At some point, yeah. Then you finish. Or you gonna just keep going and if you know, you know.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  25:07

The 10 Plus club like me? I'm in the 10 Plus club. I have a little bit left. Yeah, it's huge. And you know, for those of you who are like non healthcare workers, you're like, Oh, my goodness, is this the real? Yeah, this is the real.

Amy Felix  25:21

Yes

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  25:21

This is a.

Amy Felix  25:22

100%. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  25:23

You don't fluff. That's why we have this podcast grand title flaw like, you think this is the pandemic? No, this is the honeymoon phase. Okay, this is the honeymoon phase. Who hasn't hit the fan yet?

Amy Felix  25:33

Agreed. And you know, what, someone also described it as you know, the pandemic, and the beginning of it was the earthquake, we are feeling the aftershocks.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  25:39

Yeah.

Amy Felix  25:40

And you know, aftershocks can feel a little or they can feel huge. And that's we're gonna continue this feel as he move through this the variants that come across.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  25:49

And the impact, it's not just on one system, and it's multiple systems. So I want you all to start thinking like, Hmm, what do we need to do?

Amy Felix  26:01

Yeah.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  26:01

What's really important right now? 

Amy Felix  26:03

Exactly.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  26:04

How do we improve the future? Because the past two years, it's been like, and it was already, like, wasn't doing so hot? So what, uh, where do we start? 

Amy Felix  26:15

There do we start. Yeah.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  26:16

So let's say you were the presidente of the United States of America. 

Amy Felix  26:21

Oh.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  26:22

Look at you.

Amy Felix  26:23

I'm ready. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  26:23

Oh yeah. So this is your moment, to in act.

Amy Felix  26:26

This is my moment.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  26:27

Your executive decisions. I do know, a president that made like 60 in a day or something. But anyway.

Amy Felix  26:34

We digress. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  26:35

Good digress. So what would you means? How would you, come, you have your big pen.

Amy Felix  26:41

My big pen.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  26:43

You could. 

Amy Felix  26:43

I think. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  26:44

Big stuff happen.

Amy Felix  26:45

Oh, I could make things happen. The first one would be is thinking about providers, they have to pay, as you just mentioned, tons of loans to become these excellent conditions, we need to find a better way to support them through their education, so they don't have tons of loans. And that these things are accessible, right. So whether it's a loan forgiveness program, which has been on the government docket for how long now, right, that needs to be enacted, right? Loan forgiveness programs need to be enacted, after certain years of service, you can say in certain areas, fine, but it has to be enacted in order to support providers, or people who are interested in the healthcare field. I've been secondly is that we really need to take a look at how we do health insurance and business around the idea of healthcare. The healthcare industry, at this point in time is like a business. And so a lot of the things that influence how we provide care is driven by reimbursement and insurances, etc. And so if that's impacting the care where we may not be providing optimal care to our patients, because of some of these constraints, how do we shift this so that we make sure everybody's getting the best care, and therefore decreasing that moral injury that clinicians may be feeling as well as that level of burnout? So they don't feel like they may be quote, unquote, just turning out patients, but more so actually spending time and doing the thing they went to school to do, the thing that they want to do, which is take care people. I mean, you could say paperwork, you could say, sit on a computer and type notes all day long, whichever version you decide, is more feasible for you. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  28:15

Yeah. Okay. Mrs. Madame President, so we got a big pal. Oh, are you saying reduce financial barriers to getting into school? Is that what you're saying?

Amy Felix  28:24

I am, I'm 100% saying reduce financial barriers. So then after 10 years, you shouldn't really be thinking about I still have x amount of school loans. Right. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  28:34

Yeah. So, so there's a balance of government responsibility and individual service.

Amy Felix  28:39

I am 100% agree. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  28:41

Give and take. 

Amy Felix  28:42

If there were only that, thank you so much for simplifying it. Maybe it will make its way up. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  28:46

Yeah, you know I am sure. I am sure the presidents and prime ministers and people are listening to this right now. Trust me, people take the crap out of them. I follow people on social media with the exception of maybe one president. Yes.

Amy Felix  29:03

And you know, social media has powers so they know. Who knows?

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  29:05

It sure does. Social media determine who can come to an inauguration. Yeah. Anyway, inside voice, so providers, reduce barriers for access. Okay. And then the second point is the inequalities in service. 

Amy Felix  29:23

Yeah.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  29:23

What you're saying but people need a heart surgery, I only getting an aspirin or like a stent? Not neither.

Amy Felix  29:29

Well I think it's inequalities in terms of the type of care that people provide/receive in various areas. And so how do we make sure that there is equal care provided whether you're in a metropolitan city versus a rural area and to make sure their providers there, right, how do you increase the number of providers? Well, if you're supporting more people going to school, look at what then happens, and then people get the care that they need, right?

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  29:51

So you saying to help the small obscure towns that have a funny name to get providers because there's not a whole lot going in there? Is that what you saying?

Amy Felix  29:59

Correct.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  30:00

Uh oh. So all the Corrado shouldn't just be in the big cities.

Amy Felix  30:03

I mean, I tend to like big cities. And I'm saying that I think is, I think there's a field by, you know, supporting providers who do want to practice in a rural areas and be those people who provide the best care to their patients. Right? So.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  30:16

That's sounds very global, altruistic.

Amy Felix  30:18

But I feel like that's why we went into this, right? This is why we end up getting burned out, right? Because we're altruistic and we're giving all but what if we just did it in a different way, or a different component that was supportive of us that we could support our patients? It's really just thinking about it differently.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  30:32

Okay. Madame President, you have one more change executive order, you can make a loan with some accountability, you mean the distribution of health care, or even equitable? This is it, it's first day in office your first day in office.

Amy Felix  30:48

I think I would find various ways to acknowledge our health care providers, I think recognition, I think recognition overall, I mean, in the pandemic, it was the first time that I boarded a plane or went somewhere and said I was a nurse, and someone said, Thank you for your service. I was blown away by that, right? Because they say sometimes being in healthcare is a thankless job. And you do it truly, because you want to help people. So for people to say, Wow, I know that you're helping taking care of this community, this nation, and it wasn't because I was, I was taking care of their child or their parent or their sibling, but just hearing that from general people, I think makes a difference and shows the value of us as healthcare providers.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  31:30

Well, thank you for your service. You know, that's a very good point, I acknowledge health care providers. And you know, I do believe at the beginning, this was done like we were hashtag healthcare heroes. And, being in coffee and doughnuts, I thought we needed more doughnuts, they're bringing them. But I feel like this narrative is changing in a lot of places. I think, lately, when I talked to a about us, even like north of the US and Canada, there are doctors getting death threats, and I know he will, you know, being threatened to kill you. And you're just part of big karma, like, oh, no.

Amy Felix  32:11

It's, it's been challenging, right? Because if we share the expertise and the knowledge that we have people see it as a violation of their rights. And even so, in trying to do the most, it seems like there has been this kind of sensationalism that's been lent to the fact that there are ulterior motives, 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  32:26

I know right.

Amy Felix  32:27

Trying to provide preventative care, and it's a bit sad to witness on.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  32:31

It is, it is and for the on the record, I do not get reimbursed for ordering more tests, and my wife is not made easier by prescribing more medications is actually work for me? 

Amy Felix  32:42

Right.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  32:43

To be honest. Man, we had, I believe we swore an oath. And we.

Amy Felix  32:47

They may not be aware of that. Yeah. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  32:49

Oh, yeah.

Amy Felix  32:49

That's the hard piece.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  32:50

We call for hypocritical oath. Keep them look it up. We want to do no harm you promise this to serve you. And we took great, will take great pride and especially those old school ones, we I don't think for nurses, but back before COVID, we had white coat ceremonies. And this is a big deal where we I think it was 30 or medical school or second, I remember it's been so long. It's like dinosaurs we go, we like we like promise to be noble and care and do no harm and when presented are white coats and it's like a formality. But the fact is the 99.9% of us we hold that honor, there's always bad apples everywhere. Like, come on. That's a step.

Amy Felix  33:31

Yeah there are, right. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  33:31

But the overall majority of us are here to serve. But we're human. And the system is like need of help. There's not enough labor's and, you know, one can go full throttle for two, three years on end without casualties.

Amy Felix  33:45

I mean, I think it goes back to the point that you made is that we're human right? And remembering that fact, there have been many situations or attempts that you're taking care of patients, but I'm human too. Right. And you want to do their best, which is why even that psychologists alluding to the fact that we chose this profession and we can't do with it and takes away that human nature, that human compassion for each other. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  34:04

Yeah, we didn't growing up as a profession thinking that oh, my goodness, might bring home an illness that could kill our children, our family. 

Amy Felix  34:11

Exactly. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  34:12

But just by sheer breathing in our yard could kill us.

Amy Felix  34:15

By sheer just doing our job. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  34:17

Exactly. 

Amy Felix  34:17

By just going in everyday and doing our job.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  34:19

Exactly. That's huge. We can't hide behind the peter. 

Amy Felix  34:24

No.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  34:24

And work from home as an ICU. 

Amy Felix  34:28

Not possible.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  34:29

Not possible.

Amy Felix  34:30

Not possible. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  34:31

Not possible. And for those whose listening, what's what's your health worth, what's your family's worth, for the sake of society and decided we have to do better and I'll say to patients, be understanding of your providers. They're not humans. They really do have other patients beside you, even though the point when they're talking to us. I know, I know.

Amy Felix  34:48

Are you sure doctor talk like me?

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  34:50

I know, I have been.

Amy Felix  34:51

I am the most important thing right in front of you. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  34:53

I know.

Amy Felix  34:54

What do you mean?

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  34:56

Yeah, I know. I know. You're gonna hate me, you might get my MBA later. Don't worry, it's all good. But my nerves, you could you can slap me later, but sorry. Great. 

Amy Felix  35:07

Yeah.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  35:08

It's just there's a lot. And because things are so complicated and people surgeries are getting delayed for other reasons people are going in with their heart disease when they're actually having the big one. Not before all the warnings and people get sicker or keeping them alive longer, they're needing more care. 

Amy Felix  35:25

Exactly. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  35:25

So it's like, into compounding. It's exhausting. So everyone, do your part.

Amy Felix  35:31

Take care, take care of yourself,

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  35:33

Take care of yourself, you know, let's go over the basics. Okay, like, you know, wash you hands, soke the water, wash your hands.

Amy Felix  35:41

You know, the mere fact that during the beginning of the pandemic, there were so many videos reminding people to wash their hands blew my mind.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  35:47

It blew my mind. 

Amy Felix  35:48

Right?

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  35:49

Right. And when I remember I opened when, like, certain things I thought everyone should have in their offices. You couldn't even buy them like once you guys find this stuff before. Like fortunately for me, I was a germaphobe I had six months supply of like cabbie wipes and Sani wipes. And I had some mask not in many size but I mean, add stuff, but right. Whoa, good luck. You guys weren't wiping your beds down afterwards.

Amy Felix  36:11

So that piece in itself, right, you're like, wow, okay, what what were we actually doing right. And kind of reevaluating systems.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  36:19

Yeah. And you know, the whole healthy lifestyle, you know, water drinking it? Mm hmm. Maybe don't smoke. 

Amy Felix  36:27

Maybe don't smoke. I think there's some bad things that can happen if you smoke.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  36:31

Yeah, just know, you can get wrinkles. Maybe? I don't know. Any cancers. Excuse VersaLink COVID lung disease maybe, you know.

Amy Felix  36:38

Pending on what.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  36:39

Yeah, exactly. You know, don't go into crowded areas. And high fives and chairs and screen. You might unfollow me after this. But I think modern medicines greatest like, success has been not in vaccination, you save so many lives. Like we don't have polio, the more iron lung so y'all let let's not go back and like forget to vaccinate our kids over the past two years.

Amy Felix  37:05

Because hey, wait a minute, you just did an iron law. Now. You're really dating us with dinosaurs? Because I'm taking care of patients with iron law.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  37:13

There you go. Lungs. 

Amy Felix  37:16

Yeah sounds are real. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  37:18

Like ventilation. Yes, it is real. I want to hear that, like, make this political. But we do the best of what we have, because anyone else have a better solutions?

Amy Felix  37:28

And I mean, I think if we actually look at a little bit of history, how have we been able to eradicate some of these diseases or make the minimally active right guys? So in essence, if we shown we've been able to do this, what could happen if we all made an active effort to help try to control this virus as we speak?

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  37:45

Yeah, because Gabbar says, I think that's what they told me in school, they want to stay alive, because they need a host person, a dog, you don't care once you stay alive. So it can make virus babies and mutate.

Amy Felix  37:59

And over and over.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  37:59

Over and over and over and have wild viral sex. They do, it's not was on your book too? Your production and.

Amy Felix  38:07

I don't know what book you had. But let me tell you if I had the book you have, I would have paid a lot engine in a microbiology.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  38:15

Well I'm, I would be a great teacher. If I was like, This is how they replicate.

Amy Felix  38:20

Everybody be like who's replicating and where? 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  38:22

Your making up my complains. Yeah, like it's all there. It's nothing new. 

Amy Felix  38:29

No.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  38:30

Nothing new and history does repeat itself. Clearly when we're in year two of this go figure. Science has been validated doesn't mean that science can't be improved, because we have new technology, but we'll make best use of what we have 

Amy Felix  38:45

What we had, exactly.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  38:46

Exactly at this time and down the road, we'll have better and with antibiotics and insulin, we didn't know how to build these things. It's like instant here you take 100 units and then suddenly they're in coma Oops, my bad. Like we titrate it, you've learned a lot. 

Amy Felix  39:00

We've made so much improvement.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  39:02

Thank you in a short amount of time. Yeah, okay, all right. So this I just want to say this podcast was not brought by Pfizer, Maderna or Johnson and Johnson.

Amy Felix  39:12

Nope, not sponsored by any of those. 

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  39:14

Not sponsored by anybody, we did this out of our free volition and known as paying is at this moment to do this. So want to add there there's there's out there Well, Amy honestly I could probably talk to you for hours yet life and my responsibilities as a mom and a parent and the owner business owner is not allow me too. So I just want to say thank you. So the listeners want to get a full of you want to learn more of your services.

Amy Felix  39:40

Sure, this is an awesome actually doctor Tomi they can reach me at Amy Felix, I'm on Twitter, I am on LinkedIn. I am also on Instagram so you can find me there as I am just continuing to focus on my wellness journey as well as kind of share suggestions and ideas for all my fellow nurses out there.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  39:59

Yeah. Thank you burnout is real, no sign of weakness admit it takes a lot of courage to a minute.

Amy Felix  40:05

A 100%.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  40:06

Huge courage and that doesn't make you an incompetent or unsafe position so your colleges might make you might feel that.

Amy Felix  40:12

Feel that way.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  40:13

Right. That's a whole new cat like yeah, that's another story entirely.

Amy Felix  40:20

You are strong and I think you just acknowledging it makes you even stronger.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  40:24

Hmm, yeah, I'm the healthiest I've ever been and it's all my projects. 

Amy Felix  40:28

It's awesome.

Dr. Tomi Mitchell  40:29

Thank you. Well, it's nice, it's been a blast, again. This is your host with lovely Amy Felix on the Mental Health and Wellness Show. So till we meet again next week. Bye.

Amy Felix  40:40

Bye bye.