Rite of passage: why is alcohol our go-to for adulting, sophistication and fun? (featuring Karolina Rzadkowolska)
Sep 19, 2023Season 3Episode 3
DeAnn Knighton
On this week's episode of our Sober Positive Workplace Series, DeAnn speaks with Karolina Rzadkowolska, author of "Euphoric: Ditch Alcohol and Gain a Happier, More Confident You". Karolina is a powerhouse in the alcohol-free movement. She has helped countless gray-area drinkers reconsider their relationship with alcohol. The episode discusses alcohol culture and its impact on the workplace, generational considerations for how we think about alcohol and alcohol-related marketing, and the shifting expectations of the next generation who are the future leaders of our workforce.
Realities and disconnects of alcohol culture:
Alcohol became a tool for Karolina to get out of her shell and meet new people, and she had no boundaries around it in college.
Drinking alcohol makes you feel like an adult. It gives you independence, a sense of rebelliousness, glamour, or sophistication.
Drinking during the week is a socially acceptable means of doing it without having to explain it to anyone.
60% of people overdrink in the United States, meaning that a woman has more than one drink, is now considered heavy risky drinking, according to the medical establishment, and it gets even lower in Canada, where the drinking limits have gone lower and lower.
Most people over 52% wish they didn't drink at all, and most people recognize that they don't like it and wish they were drinking less.
Karolina shares her workplace experience:
She was one of the first people in her known sphere in her workplace to go alcohol-free, and she chose to adopt that story. People started coming out of the woodwork and saying that alcohol-free living is better for most people.
One thing about a workplace scenario is that there's this assumption that what everyone wants to do and is fun for them is drinking.
Holistic health is becoming more important to young people, and there is more of a lens on the importance of taking care of yourself.
Why more and more CEOs are drinking less?
Karolina shares thoughts on how we can work to bridge non-drinkers:
The odd division that exists in the world of non-drinkers and the spectrum of beliefs around substances.
Being willing to evolve and change some of the language and the methods that are used to reevaluate is super helpful, but it doesn't go to say that the other methods don't work.
On this week's episode of our Sober Positive Workplace Series, DeAnn speaks with Karolina Rzadkowolska, author of "Euphoric: Ditch Alcohol and Gain a Happier, More Confident You". Karolina is a powerhouse in the alcohol-free movement. She has helped countless gray-area drinkers reconsider their relationship with alcohol. The episode discusses alcohol culture and its impact on the workplace, generational considerations for how we think about alcohol and alcohol-related marketing, and the shifting expectations of the next generation who are the future leaders of our workforce.
Realities and disconnects of alcohol culture:
Alcohol became a tool for Karolina to get out of her shell and meet new people, and she had no boundaries around it in college.
Drinking alcohol makes you feel like an adult. It gives you independence, a sense of rebelliousness, glamour, or sophistication.
Drinking during the week is a socially acceptable means of doing it without having to explain it to anyone.
60% of people overdrink in the United States, meaning that a woman has more than one drink, is now considered heavy risky drinking, according to the medical establishment, and it gets even lower in Canada, where the drinking limits have gone lower and lower.
Most people over 52% wish they didn't drink at all, and most people recognize that they don't like it and wish they were drinking less.
Karolina shares her workplace experience:
She was one of the first people in her known sphere in her workplace to go alcohol-free, and she chose to adopt that story. People started coming out of the woodwork and saying that alcohol-free living is better for most people.
One thing about a workplace scenario is that there's this assumption that what everyone wants to do and is fun for them is drinking.
Holistic health is becoming more important to young people, and there is more of a lens on the importance of taking care of yourself.
Why more and more CEOs are drinking less?
Karolina shares thoughts on how we can work to bridge non-drinkers:
The odd division that exists in the world of non-drinkers and the spectrum of beliefs around substances.
Being willing to evolve and change some of the language and the methods that are used to reevaluate is super helpful, but it doesn't go to say that the other methods don't work.
Oh hello. This is the sober positive workplace series brought to you by show up and stay. I'm your host Deann
Karolina Rzadkowalska:
It was kind of fancier, right? They had Knighton. servers who came around with wine and beer and stuff like that, but it was so normalized and even one of the biggest fundraisers that that place did it was a big wine classic every single year. So I'll call it was really kind of entrenched not in the sense of let's binge drink and have all these college kids you know, have unhealthy relationships but really poison that sense of like, oh, this is what adulthood looks like. This is what glamour looks like
DeAnn Knighton:
Karolina Rzadlowalska is a powerful voice in the alcohol free movement. In her book Euphoric, she provides tools to support growth minded individuals that want to take a break from alcohol. She's been featured in 50 Plus articles on media platforms, including Real Simple Huffington Post, Elite Daily, the Sunday Post, Katie Couric, Pop Sugar, and has appeared on something like 200 podcasts. Yes, this is definitely not a surprise when you hear how eloquently she conveys her message today. This discussion with Karolina and I is focused on individuals and their relationships with alcohol, and even more specifically looking through the lens of addressing an alcohol relationship as a preventative measure. This is with the hopes of avoiding future and more potentially devastating results. I feel a responsibility to note that depending on the severity of alcohol addiction, alcohol withdrawal can be very dangerous and can cause death for some, not everything that is talked about here on the show today applies to every person or to every story. It does represent a growing movement that I believe has the ability to support the needs of an important constituency, and one with the potential for a positive trickle down effect that could impact anyone evaluating their relationship with alcohol. Karolina has strong and valid concerns around the potential dangers of alcohol culture. She speaks openly about the risks of alcohol, not only for those with addiction, but more broadly, no matter where you stand on this issue, we are looking to bring awareness to different ways that the next generation may be thinking about alcohol. So we can start now to have our workplaces reflect that ideology. This is a chance to reflect on the timing and influence that the alcohol free movement might be able to have on some of our broader social issues. And the reality of the negative influence of some of our long held beliefs that frankly, just don't make sense anymore. particularly as it relates to our attitudes towards the positioning of alcohol in our social spaces. I think there's something here for everyone. Also, I tell a really embarrassing story about my twisted days at Weight Watchers and how I manipulated the point system to make sure I left ample space for alcohol consumption. Lucky for all of us, I am pretty shameless at this stage in my public disclosures. Without further ado, please enjoy this conversation. I feel like the timing for us to connect is kind of meant to be because I know you have so much that you can offer the conversations that we've been having around normalizing alcohol free choices in the workplace. Although this is only I know, a small piece of the issue. Do you feel like it's an important one in particular, because of the shifts that we are seeing right now and the whole culture in the last few years, before we get into any of that I want to know you a little bit better, I want to help people get to know you a little bit better. So maybe we start with you telling us a little bit from your own experience, maybe some of the major ways that your personal perspective of alcohol has changed over the last several years and what it was there.
Karolina Rzadkowalska:
I obviously grew up drinking as most of us do. And you know, something that I love to do as an alcohol free coach and empowerment expert is actually look into behind the scenes of what kind of societal conditioning we all receive to get there. Instead of taking it as comes some kind of personal moral dilemma or feeling of my own. You know, I grew up in a society I have to recognize that really pushed me to drink at most occasions, you know, and so I grew up obviously in high school, college is when I started dabbling with alcohol and in college, I just turned into like this party ego identity. I was really shy and introverted growing up and so alcohol at that point became this tool for me to really get out of my shell and meet new people and you know, I had just no boundaries around it. I'll pop that point. But the thing is, is that like what everyone was doing, right, that's like what college look like. And you know, there wasn't it was really this like rite of passage, the way I look at kind of the, the architecture of our cultural institutions, when it comes to alcohol is we actually have these really defining moments where it's like, Okay, you go from being a non drinker in your early adolescence to being a drinker. And that makes you have status in this society, it makes you feel like an adult, it gives you independence, maybe it gives you a sense of rebellious Ness, maybe it gives you a sense of glamour, sophistication. So whatever that was, and I just see myself following on that trajectory. And so again, no healthy boundaries around drinking in college. But as I started to grow up, I started to kind of put on that next persona of drinking that was presented to me, and it was this sophisticated adult that drank wine, and you know, also had a pretty healthy and put together lifestyle. And so that's what I tried to conform to, I started to adopt a really healthy and mindful lifestyle. So basically, Monday through Thursday, I lived a quite healthy lifestyle, I would drink green juices, I would go to yoga class, I would meditate. And on the weekend, I would go out with friends, maybe it was a sushi dinner, maybe it was a game night, I would have some wine at home with Netflix, whatever it was, alcohol was always involved. But it was also basically following the rules like this is what every single adult does. This is what all my colleagues at work do. We drink on the weekend, we let loose or we go visit the new winery or the new brewery. And so even though it's trying to make alcohol the smaller part of my life, it didn't matter what happened. Every Monday morning, I woke up feeling shell shocked. I woke up feeling emotionally low, exhausted, and super groggy. And I had been getting this signs and basically this like voice that was telling me you were made for so much more than this. You deserve so much better than this for years. So the cycle was playing out of like live healthy during the week drink over the weekend for years and years and years. And I was always feeling this intuitive hunch, like, Can we take a break? Can we just not drink. And it was always the social calendar that stopped me it was looking out, oh, well, this Friday, you have that wedding or this Saturday, you have that dinner party, or there's that work event or something. And I always felt so locked into this identity of well, if you're an adult, you have to drink. And so I didn't listen to that voice for years until I finally did. And it was actually dry January that finally kind of gave me permission to take a break from alcohol, it was this like socially acceptable means of doing it without having to explain it to anyone, or telling you when I had a problem or anything like that. And I fell in love. You know, like at first I had to deal with cravings and how to manage my time on a Friday night. But I really started to fall in love with how deep my sleep was and how peaceful I felt every morning and how I started appreciating nature and just having like, real belly laughs again, just really falling in love with joy I felt for my life. And I wasn't yet that convinced that I was allowed to remain a non drinker. Again, it's like so much of this cultural rules that I'm trying to follow. And so in February, I drank a few times again, because I again, I thought that that's what it meant to be a normal adult. But the contrast was just too much for me, it was like even a drink or two would completely ruin my sleep make me feel not as happy as I was feeling. And I even noticed an hour or so after having a drink, my mood would go crashing, I would feel impatient and frustrated. And for me, drinking was always like a way to feel happier, more excited or have some kind of thing to look forward to. And I was like this isn't fun. And so I decided to take another break at the end of February. And I've basically been alcohol free ever since five and a half years later, and really redefining what it means to be a non drinker. So I'd love to talk about alcohol and changing your relationship with it. But it's really also what happens after alcohol that I'm so passionate about. Because I got to the core of why was I drinking, I was living this TGIF lifestyle. I couldn't wait for the weekend, without realizing that I was probably unfulfilled with how my week was going. And so instead of just, you know waiting for the weekend, I designed my life in such a way where I get fulfillment every day. And I went after some of the biggest trends of my heart, like becoming an entrepreneur, writing a book traveling around the world more often. And I just feel like I'm also making an impact with my life. And those are the core things that have really given me so much more meaning and purpose that a 20 minute buzz just can't compare to. So I love these conversations about normalizing an alcohol free lifestyle for any reason. And I think it's so important to look at like the cultural institutions around us to recognize how little permission we give people to live an alternate lifestyle.
DeAnn Knighton:
There's something fascinating about the idea of moderation to me too. There's also this feeling that for some reason, if I can't moderate there's something wrong with me, instead of like this realization that there might be something much bigger at play than my own willpower. I always believed it was my own failing. One of the things that you mentioned in your book that I think is really powerful was the statistic that 60% of those who use alcohol misuse alcohol. We've had all of these changing ideas is around what is appropriate alcohol consumption, what is not, the reality is a good portion of us whether or not we have an issue with alcohol misuse is common. And I liked the way that you'd framed up the different type of relationships people might have with alcohol, what that spectrum can look like.
Karolina Rzadkowalska:
I love this, because I think what kept me so stuck for so long was thinking about it in such a black and white terms. And I think that's what traditionally society does is you're either in the bucket of normal drinkers who moderate and can be responsible with their alcohol, or the bucket of people who are Ooh, you drink too much in your life, you have to quit that now. And that's on you. And the truth is, when we look at consumption levels and statistics is there aren't buckets, there are no two buckets like that it is this huge spectrum. And most people do find themselves in the middle of that spectrum, and that kind of Messier, gray area. And so 60% of people over drink in the United States, meaning that a woman has more than one drink, she is now considered heavy, risky drinking according to the medical establishment, and it gets even lower. Like in Canada, the drinking limits have gone lower and lower, because there's just no safe amount of alcohol. And when you look around Society, who is always stopping at that one drink, you know, like, when you go to a dinner party, it's not like, the sommelier stops pouring the bottle after the first drink. It's not like, you go to a barbecue, and everyone has a ticket for just the one drink, right? Like, that's just not how we observe drinking behavior whatsoever. And most people find themselves drinking more often either from the pandemic, either socially the weekend, like letting off the steam, or even just making it a regular habit at home. And so what's so interesting too, is that they've also found that most people over 52% actually wish that they drink less or not at all. So it's not just that we're over drinking. And that's very normalized, people are recognizing it, and they don't like it, and they wish that they were drinking less. So again, like these old fashioned black and white kind of buckets just don't really hold any ground. And there is this unsafe, and almost unhealthy relationship that society has with alcohol. And so any form of allowing people more space and intuition and permission to reevaluate that is so healthy, and recognizing to how much are we contributing to this push. And this expectation to drink in our cultural institutions is also super important to recognize as well. And you know, I see it all the time, I think that when you are health minded, when you are conscious, when you're really investigating a life of fuller awareness, and more intuition, and more healthy habits, it's kind of impossible to make alcohol work in that scenario, you know, like, your intuitions gonna feel it, even after just one drink, you're gonna feel different the next day than if you didn't have that drink at all. So I really just see so many more people becoming more intuitive, like really listening to their body really listening to their mind really listening to their soul, about what's working for them, instead of trying to plug themselves into some kind of hole or some kind of box, they're really just asking themselves, does this work for me? And does this align with the kind of lifestyle I want to have? And I think those are just such intuitive questions to ask versus Do I have a problem, it didn't have to take me seven years of repeating that cycle over and over and over again, of already knowing I didn't like it before, I was able to make a change of really actually learning how to reevaluate alcohol in a much healthier way earlier on. And I think that's what my work really does is that there's no divisive us versus them of like the gray area drinker versus like the heavier drinker. We're talking about approaching the problem at earlier stages. And we're going to use different language and different solutions.
DeAnn Knighton:
You know, I'm going to share this with you. I haven't actually talked about this before, I grew up in weight watcher culture, and I always had some struggle with food, right. So I joined Weight Watchers a couple of different times in my early 20s. And the interesting thing about the program was, you know, it was all point spaced, and you had a certain amount of points that you could use every single day to meet whatever you were allowed to eat dinner was this game that we all we're playing around, okay, well, so it's two points for a shot of vodka. So, depending on how much I'm going to drink tonight, then I only have this much reserved for food. This seemed like a normal practice to me when I was doing it. And I even remember terrifically, at one point in time, I threw up after drinking, and I thought, Oh, does that mean I have more points than I can eat today? Just trying to illustrate with my own embarrassing reality, how the mind can just get wrapped around these really strange ways of trying to make something work that maybe just doesn't work. What are the roadblocks here? I mean, I hear you speak and I'm like the whole this just seems like a no brainer, right? But it isn't. It's tricky. It's really tricky. We'll talk in a minute about some of the ways it's tricky, even within the alcohol free community, but what do you feel like gets in our way? What makes this a bigger thing? Oh, Polycom than it should be,
Karolina Rzadkowalska:
I honestly think it's the social aspect. And even though some people have very private habits at home, I'm not saying that that isn't a hard thing to overcome and to make changes around at the core of it, there's this existential dilemma of who am I if I don't belong, like this with these people. And it's not just in your core friend group. And if I were to go to a conference, somehow, in our society drinkers are elevated, right? They have elevated status in the sense that they seem more glamorous or more sophisticated, or whatever lies have been baked on the alcohol through marketing, and so forth. You know, there's a reason why we have the James Bond Shaken, not stirred thing like that marks something about him. There's a reason why like Olivia Pope went to alcohol every night after her busy day. And there was something that these directors were trying to impart to us about their characters about how complex and deep and sophisticated and glamorous they were, that's been embedded as a message into our subconscious for so long. And the opposite is also true. We've been embedding into our subconscious that a non drinker is either a a problem, or be on the other side of the spectrum, boring, pious or religious, right? And so it's like, how do you exist as there's all these things to change, right? Like you, we want to change how we perceive alcohol, we want to make sure we clear any sort of identification with any sort of benefit, pleasure or comfort that's coming from alcohol, because 99 times out of 100. It's not coming from alcohol. It's like this story that we're making up in our head. And so that can be a really deep process of changing our subconscious around what we believe with alcohol. I call that the mindset process. I've shared my book. But I think at the core of it, the harder thing, is that social aspect of who am I if I don't drink? And what will these people think? Or how do I approach it in this scenario? Or how do I bond with my partner, if that's what we've shared for so long. And there is this belonging and acceptance that we get from partaking in this the way that other people do. And so what's so cool is that we're seeing alternatives. Now we're seeing a bunch of people who are shunning this way of bonding and creating their own spaces. We see alcohol free drinks, really popping up so that every space can be inclusive is the hopefully the goal whether people are drinking or not, we're both sharing the bonding, we're sharing the ritual together. And so there's so many different ways around that. But I think it's going to be a just a huge shift in how we see alcohol, and how we see bonding and belonging in our society, it really has to come from a point of pride and a point of I love this lifestyle to remain sustainable as well. I'm sure there's so much more that comes up. As we think about this. I think we're all making our mark on the world by shifting that conversation. Like even one person showing up to a networking event and not drinking is giving other people permission that that is acceptable that that's okay. I think we're all creating these ripple effects everywhere we go by standing for the alcohol free lifestyle.
DeAnn Knighton:
From my own experience, I went into treatment, and the first year and a half of being sober was very difficult. I was white knuckling every step of the way. It actually wasn't until I started to do what you're talking about, which was change the way I think about it, listen to people talk about it in a way that didn't feel so yucky and shameful. Then everything shifted.
Unknown:
What I love about the idea of a break from alcohol is the brain is going to scream at you. Whenever you say you're doing something for forever. It's like what we're getting out of our comfort zone and never getting this treat ever again. You are crazy.
DeAnn Knighton:
the rebel comes roaring out!
Karolina Rzadkowalska:
And that's the thing is that we have to recognize, too, that if you are a quote unquote, normal drinker, and I'm using air quotes, you as a normal drinker started drinking when you're 18, or 21. And you're supposed to drink for most of every social occasion for the rest of your life unless you're pregnant. So a normal quote unquote, drinker has alcohol on a regular basis for the rest of their life. For most of us as adults, we have no idea how we really feel what our natural state what our natural mental state what our body feels like, at all without alcohol in our system. What I love about taking a dry January, it's very exploratory. It's a very experimental basis to just see, how do I feel without alcohol, that level of curiosity and ability for it to just be this break? And to ease into it in the sense of let the experience speak for itself?
DeAnn Knighton:
Yeah. And you know, there's also that beautiful added benefit that's happening behind the scenes with your dopamine and rewiring the reward pathway. What also is happening? Well, they're looking for the evidence that, hey, things are going better. You're also doing a little bit of brain rewiring as well. It takes people different amounts of time for that rewiring to happen, but it does. Let's move into talking a little bit more from the workplace perspective, you have a pretty broad business background, you've worked in a lot of different environments as a drinker and a non drinker, it looks like so can you just give some examples of before and after experience of going alcohol free.
Karolina Rzadkowalska:
So before I started my own business, I worked in a university setting. And you would think that a university they would you know, want to not Institute drinking so much for the youth and for the college students. But I worked at a Catholic University who was a little prestigious. And so alcohol was actually part of everything we did every even lunch like, you know, get together like employee lunch or any kind of student event or anything like that had alcohol served. And it was kind of fancier, right, they had servers who came around with wine and beer and stuff like that. But it was so normalized. And even one of the biggest fundraisers that that place did, it was a big wine classic, every single year. So I'll call it was really kind of entrenched, not in the sense of let's binge drink, and have all these college kids, you know, have unhealthy relationships, but really poison that sense of like, oh, this is what adulthood looks like, this is what glamour looks like. I was one of the first people in my known sphere in my workplace to go alcohol free. And actually I'd like announce it, you know, I was I was actually very proud of it. And I took to I chose to adopt that story instead of the story of this is embarrassing. And you know, everyone's going to think something about me because I felt just so empowered, and how much better alcohol free living is for most people. And I knew that I had to show it with my own example. I had to be prideful about it, I had to showcase to people that there's a different way. And what was so incredible when that happened is people started coming out of the woodworks and saying like, Oh my gosh, I quit drinking myself too, or, or I've been debating it, you know, for a while to you know, your example really helps. And so many people around me decided to take breaks or to commit to being alcohol free as well. It was really, really incredible to see. And then what happened to is that as we had some more culture discussions around our workplace, more people started voicing, hey, is all the entertainment we really have to offer here are going to revolve around alcohol. How inclusive is that? And I'll say one thing about a workplace scenario is oftentimes, there's this assumption that what everyone wants to do and is fun for them is drinking. So let's provide the drinking and everything will be fun for them. But that's such an assumption. So for example, I have a friend who works in the innovation space in San Diego for like all the biotech firms and stuff and her company helps like bring them together so they can collaborate and innovate and all those things. And her boss is like a big drinker. So they love doing these happy hours and craft beer nights, and all this kind of stuff. And they're noticing that they're getting really low attendance, especially in the last three years or so. And they did a little field work. And she found out that most CEOs don't have time for drinking. And it's not like they don't have time because they're so busy. It's more of a exceptional leaders don't have time to mess with alcohol. It's either someone they decided to quit, or they decided to just not really go deep in there because they have so much better things to do with their genius. And with their vision in life, a lot of leaders don't drink, right. And that's what we're finding more and more. So I think an alcohol free space is that it's not a signal of a problem necessarily. It's also the ticket to success. And I think when you reframe it that way, no matter how someone arrives at it, it can be seen as such a bonus, it's such a plus in the workplace. But it's also just again, this assumption that if everyone wants to drink, and that's what's fun to them, well, then it's so easy to just put up a bar, make that you know, employee, whatever. But it also takes a little bit more creativity and ingenuity to say is this really all we're going to think about for entertainment and for team building and all those different things in order to actually bring in more inclusive but also holistic options? And I think that's what's really exciting right now is companies get to reevaluate what kind of culture they want to create, by kind of inclusivity they want to create and kind of thinking outside of the box. And this easy, well, let's just open a bottle of wine and everyone's gonna have fun.
DeAnn Knighton:
And I think the expectations have shifted for organizations, it's past time to be doing that based on what's happening culturally. You know, I had this interesting experience of moving from being in sort of my age group of 40 ish folks, and working specifically with 22 to 24 year olds for about a two year period of time that I hired into this company, and I was definitely the oldest person in the room by far, and I was sober. And I was really anxious going in right because that's how I had connected with people. That's how I knew how to be this is a sales environment they're going to expect like this for me, there were things but for the most part, I was actually very surprised by how little pushback I actually really got about the fact that I didn't drink, I expected it to be a lot more awkward and uncomfortable than it was. And I feel like you correct me if I'm wrong. But I did feel like there was a little bit of a generational difference. There was a more comfort level with talking about mental health with talking about things that were going on with us with talking about, hey, this isn't for me and people being okay with that. That was just a perspective I had but curious what you think there?
Unknown:
Oh, for sure, you know, I actually was able to share my story to an audience of the university students. And so many university students came up to me, and were just like, thank you so much, because you're debunking this idea that I have to do this thing to belong. And so many people found it in other areas, not just with alcohol, like, I don't have to conform to this identity, or this behavior, or this pattern in order to be happy, right, I'm allowed to kind of choose my own way and do the things that are aligned with my lifestyle and my values. I think it's just giving more and more people permission to you know, explore life differently. And I think that obviously, is happening in the younger generations, where, like you said, mental health is more important. Holistic Health is more important to right, like, I see these tick tock videos of women just doing like a two hour skincare routine, like where's the time for drinking, and that right there isn't, you know what I mean, it's just this like, more of a lens on the importance of taking care of yourself, it's kind of really gotten big as well, which I love. Things are definitely changing. And it just doesn't have to mean anything. And I still get so sad when I see the opposite. When I see young people who, you know, I once was talking to a college aid student who told me that for they're super precocious, they're like on the track to be a successful entrepreneur pretty soon out of college just like doing all those incredible personal development things. And they told me that the one thing that holds them back is drinking. And drinking was not something that was a problem in their life. It's what they're doing socially with their friends, but they can already see what a problem it is. And like how it just takes a while to jump back into the motivation and all those kinds of things. But he didn't see an alternative. He like he didn't see a way out of that, like, how am I supposed to belong with my peers if I don't do that. And that made me really sad, because we created that culture. I don't just mean you and me and just people our age, but like the people before him created that culture and that expectation, and now I think it's our job to change it. And for anyone who has kids themselves or just cares about the next generations of people, it is our job to change it. Right? This cultural expectation that thou shalt drink or thou isn't normal, is not right. That's I feel really strongly about speaking out about it.
DeAnn Knighton:
that's really powerful. I like it framed up that way. The last thing I wanted to chat on, and this one's kind of a tricky one. But it's something that I'm running into quite a bit. And I wanted to get your take on it is this odd and interesting division that even exists in the world of non drinkers. And what I'm speaking about is the spectrum that you've already talked about that, ultimately, there are those who relate to substances in different ways. And there are some that like myself, that related to them in really detrimental ways and had to get additional support to be able to get through that. There are people who are sober now who have been sober for years who have really, obviously strong beliefs and understandings about what worked for them, and why that changed things. For them. One of those beliefs is avoiding or not necessarily being around beverages that are reminiscent of being alcoholic, just as an example. I just feel like it's a shame that there isn't a little bit more connection that we can't see very clearly that by building up environments that are more inclusive, for those who don't drink, that it helps everyone, at any level of decision making around drinking or not drinking, it's way better than anything we've had. What would you say about that paradox? And what are your thoughts you have about how we can continue to bridge that? I love this question. It's so thoughtful. And, you know, obviously, there is so much historical context that goes into it. But you know, for a long time, there was only one way and that one way worked, because it was one of the only ways that was available. It doesn't matter what mental health issue or challenge we're talking about, we're always going to be innovating, there's always going to be an evolution in our thinking, actually, you could say that for any academic field on the planet. With time we are going to evolve our thinking and expand what we know about that topic and solutions to that that is just the nature of evolution and progression. And so I think obviously that is happening in the alcohol free space where now there's so many other ways of changing your relationship with alcohol. And what got really big and important which really helped me and what I help other people do is changing your beliefs about alcohol what you think it does for you and really nullifying them so that you don't believe it does anything for you, instead of willpower in your way away from it. I think that that subconscious work is really important when it comes to like how we all play together well I'll, I mean, personally, from my perspective, you know, I considered myself a gray area drinker. And I'm going to use completely different words and solutions when it comes to talking to other gray area drinkers and especially when I'm talking to people at even earlier stages than that, being willing to evolve and to change some of our language. And some of the way that we talk about it, or the methods that we use to reevaluate I think is super, super helpful. But it also doesn't go to say that the other methods don't work. There's a solution for different kinds of people found in different ways. And if something's vibing, for you go for it. If it's not vibing, for you, that's fine. You don't have to go for it. You don't have to attack it either. Right? So if we all kind of just played along a little bit, well, I think would be better. If I remember, I usually try not to read my reviews. But my husband, let me know that there was one review about my book that was just like, so out of touch and just not talking to like, basically the alcoholic under the bridge with a paper bag. And I'm like, Yeah, that's the point. I didn't write my book for that person. I wrote my book for someone who's in that more gray area. And thank God I did, because that serves such a big population of people. And there's other resources that serve other populations. And that's not just to say, a divide between drinking levels and consumption levels. It's also just what we vibe with, you know, like, some people really want a more spiritual path. Some people want a more, you know, emotional releasing type path, some people want really a cognitive behavioral type change. So I just think the more solutions that we have out there, the more people that are going to get helped. And things like dry January, even have been sometimes vilified to as like, that's not a solution. You know, that's denial, we're helping people really experiment, you know, and really try on a different ways. And the more that we can like, really just make alcohol, less of a dominant way of living, I think is better. And recognizing, too, that even when it comes to the non drinkers, sometimes we've made that paradigm continue to be true that there's this idea that alcohol is out there, and it's totally fine for those people, but not for these people, you know, it's like, well, maybe we need to reevaluate that, too. I mean, the science shows there is no safe amount of alcohol, and that any level of drinking is going to just increase risk, I think we just need a whole paradigm shift about how we talk about alcohol, really recognizing that we're not going to let the alcohol industry kind of get away with a narrative that it's been saying, for so long of just drink responsibly, as a show that just came out about like these cartoons who say things like more clearly than the way we talk about things. And it was I'll have a mild poison, please. That's what alcohol is, if we really just call it for what it is. So I think, again, that there's prevention, and to recognize if something if you don't like something, but it's geared towards a different audience or to a different, you know, level of reevaluation, it's actually probably more on that prevention bucket. And that's incredible that exists, you know, and then there's other obviously more in depth, you know, and more serious kind of treatments. And just depending on where someone is, in so many different levels of, you know, their emotional health, their spiritual health, all those different kinds of things, then it's worth doing that. And I also want to say too, that even in the alcohol free the New Age, kind of alcohol free bucket, just reevaluating your alcohol beliefs, I don't think is enough, like, I think after that comes this huge personal development, that is our job to kind of take on. For me, it was kind of like a given. And that's what I would do. And sometimes I see people not really leaning into that as much, and they're still kind of unhappy, because maybe the alcohol is out of the picture, but they didn't solve the underlying, you know, challenges. So it's, our job is to heal our job is to grow. Our job is to challenge old limiting beliefs, no matter where they come from, or in what realm they are in our lives. And I think if we all just commit to that, we're going to see such a healthier sense of fulfillment moving forward. And I really I think that's a really smart way of saying it. And I think when we think of that spectrum, too, it's like the common ground is not necessarily going to be how each person heals or find their own way to healing. We do like to be a little bit creative. It's pretty hard to not agree that normalizing non drinking is helpful for a broad range of people impacted by alcohol. Well that we can agree on. Karolina, thank you so much for doing this. This was a pleasure. I just love how much thought and consideration you've given to this issue and all the work that you're doing in this space as well and all of the people that are benefiting. Tell us what you're up to these days where we can find you on the internet.
Unknown:
I'm a big reader myself. So I love to get to know people through a book. So I'd love for you to check it out. It's called euphoric ditch alcohol again, a happier, more confident you. You can find it on Amazon just type in euphoric or go to euphoric book.com. I'm also on euphoric af.com is my main website and not only do I help women reevaluate the relationship with alcohol but I love what happens next. I love helping them discover their deeper purpose and really go after their dreams and so not only do we have programs that help you launch your business or write a book we also have a certification that's helping new alcohol free coaches get certified as mindset coach Success Coach NLP practitioner and Alcohol Free Coach, our next cohort starts next year. So I also have retreats that I love to run with alcohol free women. Just a lot of fun stuff. You can see it all at you fork f.com. And I'm pretty active on instagram@euphoric.af. And feel free to shoot me a DM or a question. I'd love to hear from you.
DeAnn Knighton:
I want to do one more little thing. I'm starting this YouTube channel that is going to be when I talk to sober people, I'm just going to ask them about their favorite recovery jam. I'm going to record them talking about why they love it, why it inspires them. Can you tell us do you have your best recovery jam? And what is it about it that you love?
Karolina Rzadkowalska:
Absolutely. So it's called Live In The Moment by Portugal, the ma. And it was a song that was super pivotal for me when I was taking a break from alcohol like my first few months. And I remember there's this line about something about Sunday morning. And it's like a very happy song. And they're just like Sunday morning. And you know, when I was drinking Sunday morning wasn't necessarily the best, right? you'd wake up from Saturday night and just be like, Oh, I wanted to go to yoga, I don't really feel that great, whatever and now I was living this high. I was like I am living at the peak of my emotional state. This feels so good. Like, I'm so excited. And that line Sunday morning just really resonated. Like this is what life could be like even Monday morning could feel like this. You know what I mean? Like it was just so incredible. And it's such an upbeat song, I'd definitely recommend you guys check it out because I absolutely loved it. And I did have a playlist I remember having a playlist of songs that kind of were speaking to me about not only why this lifestyle was amazing, but really motivating me to want to see how much better it gets. And that was ultimately why I decided to remain alcohol free. I remember I even got to a juncture where I was like, Oh, should I drink again or not? And because there was always supposed to just be a break. And that was like the line of questioning is like well you know what a beer tastes like you know what it feels like you know how you feel afterwards but you've never seen what this trajectory is going to take for you. You've never seen what you're capable of this way so why not find out and that got me so excited
DeAnn Knighton:
for more information, please visit our website, soberpositiveworkplace.org. This podcast is written Created and produced by DeAnn Knighton. Featuring music from the wickedly talented Katie Hare