Dennis Rox
Humility Versus Arrogance in the Quest for Personal Growth
Have a question? Ask us and we will discuss it during the next episode.
Ever considered the razor-thin line that separates confidence from arrogance? This episode promises to guide you through the murky waters of self-perception, as we dissect the social underpinnings of arrogance. We tackle the complex nature of self-awareness, debating the conscious and subconscious elements of arrogance, and share personal accounts that illuminate how this trait can blind us to our own limitations.
Join us as we discuss the delicate balance between arrogance and humility in various walks of life, from the high-stakes realms of sports and entertainment to the nuanced philosophies of leading thinkers. Our conversation takes unexpected turns, examining the resilience of individuals to humbling experiences and the transformative potential of acknowledging one's ignorance. We also engage with the powerful influence of death on our humility and explore how an awareness of mortality can lead to a more open-minded and integrative approach to life's endless lessons.
Our final thoughts focus on the necessity of self-growth and the importance of maintaining a balance between humility and arrogance for personal evolution. We reflect on the stories of those who have navigated the treacherous path of arrogance, contemplating the role of external guidance and the trust required to overcome this obstacle. By the end of our journey, we hope to leave you with a newfound perspective on not only how to recognize arrogance within but also how to harness the humility that fosters wisdom and continuous learning.
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Have a question? Ask us and we will discuss it during the next episode.
Ever considered the razor-thin line that separates confidence from arrogance? This episode promises to guide you through the murky waters of self-perception, as we dissect the social underpinnings of arrogance. We tackle the complex nature of self-awareness, debating the conscious and subconscious elements of arrogance, and share personal accounts that illuminate how this trait can blind us to our own limitations.
Join us as we discuss the delicate balance between arrogance and humility in various walks of life, from the high-stakes realms of sports and entertainment to the nuanced philosophies of leading thinkers. Our conversation takes unexpected turns, examining the resilience of individuals to humbling experiences and the transformative potential of acknowledging one's ignorance. We also engage with the powerful influence of death on our humility and explore how an awareness of mortality can lead to a more open-minded and integrative approach to life's endless lessons.
Our final thoughts focus on the necessity of self-growth and the importance of maintaining a balance between humility and arrogance for personal evolution. We reflect on the stories of those who have navigated the treacherous path of arrogance, contemplating the role of external guidance and the trust required to overcome this obstacle. By the end of our journey, we hope to leave you with a newfound perspective on not only how to recognize arrogance within but also how to harness the humility that fosters wisdom and continuous learning.
we on X
On this week's episode. Arrogance has a social dynamic stance in it that allows us to prove a point almost like it's an act. As soon as we're not in a social setting. It just becomes more just ignorance.
Phillip:Whatever I have within me, I have overlooked. Now I'm going outside of myself to have to go to the store to buy that thing in order to try to get that thing that is already inside of me. That's right.
Toliy:Gods are actually envious of people because being mortal creates meaningful meaning, existing. Wow, I just exist, forever in time and, yeah, I have anything, ever, nothing is.
Eldar:Alright guys. Today's topic is arrogance. What about it, toly? You have a pretty serious beef with it.
Toliy:Well, yeah, I mean, I think it's a big probable.
Eldar:Okay.
Toliy:Yeah, I mean overall, I mean it's just a big issue, I think, for a lot of people. Why is it an issue? Yeah, did you get a little bit more detailed? Because it's like the like, one of the craziest, like contradictions to like mankind.
Eldar:Really. Well, yeah, why do you use the word contradiction to?
Toliy:describe it Well, because the action that's being displayed is the opposite of reality. And why it's a huge issue is because the person is playing at the moment does not know that it's happening, yet it is affecting them in real time.
Eldar:Wow, so you're saying that this is what arrogant behavior be a form of a dream, a state of a dream?
Toliy:Well, yeah, maybe like just being like. I mean, it's probably the state of being the most unaware imaginable asleep, yeah.
Phillip:Wow. So arrogance of form of like, being pretentious, where, like, you're basically presenting a more important version of yourself, would that be in the same boat? That's 100% part of it?
Eldar:I think yes, when you over inflating maybe your knowledge, your status, your power and all this other stuff right, almost to like to seem bigger than you are.
Toliy:Yeah, right, yeah. And the moment of like acting it out. You're acting out as if you are 100% right, but you're, in many cases, 100% wrong, so overcompensating for whatever kind of weaknesses or insecurities that you have.
Phillip:Well, it's not even over.
Toliy:It's like it's not even overcompensating, it's just being under the wrong impression period. But don't you think it would come?
Phillip:as a result of not having that thing, or are you saying that?
Toliy:Well, yeah, but that person yeah, that person does not know that this is what they're doing in the moment of doing it.
Phillip:So do you think somebody who's considered pretentious knows that? And it's more kind of coming from a bad place? Because when I hear pretentious I hear of like a negative connotation attached to that thing. When I hear arrogance, the way that you're describing it would be that person's not even aware. So they're like in La La Land.
Toliy:Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. In the state of being arrogant, you are unaware completely. You're under the wrong impression, but your behavior doesn't look like you're wrong.
Toliy:Well, yeah, that's what I'm saying is that you're so under the wrong impression that not only are you wrong, but you have the confidence and you have the belief that you can act out what you think is right, but you're dead wrong. So not only are you wrong, like you could just be wrong and just either not say it or just be wrong, right, but you're so. You're so off that not only are you wrong, but you have the confidence to actually act out on what you believe.
Mike:So it's like a guess, a form of false self confidence in there as well. Well, when you're confident about something, but it's. You're not drawing from the truth, you're just drawing for some BS idea that you're made up, yeah, and you're oblivious to what that you're doing in combination with it.
Eldar:So it's like the worst scenario, like imaginable for a person, but is it an accurate representation of what you actually believe, value and understand? It sounds like it.
Toliy:I don't necessarily view that person as being, let's say, bad, for example. Yeah, they just don't know what's going on and they're just acting out of what they think they know. So, like it's a very long trickle down effect that happens.
Eldar:But I'm saying nonetheless, is it an accurate representation of their belief system and who they really are?
Toliy:Well, they may not really be the person that they're acting out Do they know that.
Eldar:No, they cannot know that that they're doing this. See, this sounds like they don't know.
Phillip:This like sounds somebody who's more delusional and is more of a liar than attached to confidence. Like I don't think you can say like false confidence.
Toliy:Well, no, it's not a liar. The person does not know that this is what's happening.
Phillip:So they're delusional then.
Eldar:They're just under the wrong impression and, yes, you can say that it's delusion. Yes, you can. You can definitely separate the two. If you really know what reality is and the person is not living out in accordance to that reality, then yes, you can definitely say it's a delusion. You know what I mean, but I don't think it's perceived as that, especially by you. Know the people around you?
Phillip:But wouldn't that person have to be like really awake to then understand that and come to that conclusion where no, I think that you are right now.
Eldar:Retrospectively, has the have the ability to see that for what it is, you know? But in the moment, I don't think the people, most of the time, you know, people don't see that within themselves that this is what's actually going on. They're dead set on what they believe.
Mike:Yeah, okay. How does one get into this thing of like being arrogant about?
Eldar:something. So there you go. That's a very good question, I think, and now and I proposed a challenge to you earlier, you did and I think that the reason why this happens in the first place, I think, is because of social dynamics. Remove totally a social dynamic, can you still practice arrogance as much as you can without social interaction.
Toliy:Well, well, I did. I do think that social dynamics help like a build this by thinking and establish it. Yeah, I mean, I think it starts from when and we spoke about this before that people are uncomfortable with not knowing something. Sure, so because they're not comfortable with knowing something, they need to, they need to have their like, like. They can't be in that kind of state. So because of that, they some somewhere down the line chose to take a stance on something to make an assumption that that should have actually been left as a question mark.
Mike:Why would they do that? Well, how does the person get to that point where they're just living in this, living out this, what you described?
Toliy:They get to a point where they feel like they're uncomfortable with not knowing something that that's where social dynamics also correct.
Eldar:I think the motivating factor of not knowing right is the social dynamics. So, for example, if we talk about a topic here, and I really esteem everybody's opinion here, right, and I don't really know the topic, so I'll start making things up just because I esteem you guys, and you guys, like, will judge me if I don't know something about it, right? So what's?
Eldar:going to happen is I'm going to try to like, fit in, fit in, yeah, and then I'll you know. And obviously, being arrogantly confident about a topic, judas does this very good. Oh, he's good, he's good at this, yeah.
Toliy:Socials ending with like you know, guys and girls, he's going to be right away viewed as like the coolest person because he he's going to have something to say about everything. He's the most knowledgeable. Yeah, right away people start like you could also in. It's dangerous in a social setting because let's just say like a knowledge, like a good, a master, like, let's say a cap of like, let's just say 100 points, right, in that conversation you could give like, show like one or two points worth of knowledge and people will assume that you're at level like 80, 90 or 100. So like a little bit of insight in the right place. Yes, people like, they like.
Toliy:Instead of seeing like 1% of you, they already have a 100% picture of like way, way more than what you just said. From just that small little comment you had on something like, they already create a character of you. And that's also why it has to do with like the, the social setting, because in general in a social setting it's generally not cool. You're probably more judged upon like if you don't know about things, because then you ultimately have nothing to say, and a person that has nothing to say that right is usually a person that people probably are like that guy's either weird, right, he's stupid, right, like all of that. So they'd rather have a person that bullshits their way through things than a person who doesn't say anything because they assume that that person is now stupid.
Eldar:So yeah, so I think that the arrogance has a huge dependency on social environment. Remove that, yeah, I think it would make sense, right You're not going to have an arrogant conversation with yourself, and if you do do arrogant things right on your own life, the environment around you will quickly teach you otherwise.
Phillip:Well, can you be arrogant on your own? And it's not until somebody else points it out? How Give me an example If you're acting that way, wouldn't you like?
Eldar:Give me an example where an individual is acting arrogantly of themselves within the setting without any individual present to observe that arrogance.
Phillip:Where they're not being observed, because to me it's behavior based. So like, if that person is an arrogant person, I'm just thinking that that person, like their actions, whether they're in front of a person or not, would still be arrogant unless they're able to shut that thing on and off. How does that look like? Yeah, I'm trying to think, but based off the definition of what we're saying, is that this person's delusional right? So, like they don't know that, like they're acting this way? So, unless you're telling me that, like they're really good at turning it on and off?
Eldar:No, no, no. I really think that arrogance has a social dynamic stance in it that allows us right to prove a point, almost like we put it up, it's an act right, but as soon as we it's just it could be. Just as soon as we're not in a social setting, it just becomes more just ignorance. Not arrogance, but more ignorance.
Katherine:Okay, I think that's where my question was leading, because I'm thinking before you have a behavior in a social setting, it's initially a thought, right? Like you have a stance or you know, you have a thought, and then that thought becomes a behavior.
Eldar:Yes.
Katherine:So I'm thinking okay, so if you remove the person from a social setting, that person still might have it be having these thinker no problem. So what if I am arrogant? It just arrogantly, in my thoughts at home, for example.
Eldar:I'm not sure if that's possible situation and I'm having no. I'm not sure if it's possible. Well, we talked about in the beginning how we defined arrogance, or we can look it up right. It's when you present like this importance about yourself that you know something that you know more than the other person. You know what I mean. I'm not sure if you can do that within yourself, to yourself.
Eldar:I almost feel like you answered that in the moment I asked the question because, I had it in my mind and I thought okay, I think that's just pure ignorance. If you're under the wrong impression or you're you know you don't know it.
Katherine:You know you think you're right, but you're you know you're not, then that's just ignorance.
Eldar:Yeah, if you, for example, arrogantly, I don't know.
Katherine:You can be arrogantly ignorant.
Phillip:Yeah, so what's the difference between arrogance and ignorance? Because I'm like literally picturing a person like talking to themselves in the mirror.
Eldar:What?
Toliy:I was yeah, I think talking themselves up or something.
Phillip:You know what I'm saying.
Eldar:Oh no, that'll be wild Like a narcissist.
Phillip:Yeah, yeah, that's a complete like yeah, I'm thinking of example of somebody on their own, because I'm thinking like, okay, social media, somebody posting to something is still kind of some kind of interaction.
Eldar:If you're in the store, interaction like remove yeah. Yeah. Yeah, think about a person on the island. Right, put yourself on an island with no animals. No, no nothing, yeah.
Phillip:Tom Hanks Castaway yes, okay.
Eldar:Yes, that's a perfect example.
Phillip:Can I be ignorant?
Eldar:I mean, can I be you could?
Phillip:be, ignorant.
Eldar:But you cannot. Be arrogant is my thing.
Mike:I think they're they're they're related, right.
Eldar:They are related yeah.
Phillip:So what is your definition of ignorant versus arrogant? What is the difference?
Mike:I told you, ignorance leads to arrogance.
Toliy:No, Well, you definitely need ignorance to have arrogance right, but you don't need to have arrogance to have ignorance.
Mike:Yeah.
Eldar:Yeah.
Mike:Okay, correct.
Phillip:So in that example, let's say I'm on an island by myself, right, until you know how can you be arrogant within that space?
Phillip:Like he, he, he personified a volleyball where he was having interaction with it. So you're saying like once there's another kind of quote, unquote person, then an arrogance can be formed. But up until that point he could just be ignorant and say like, hey, I can get out of here, like I can make this a raft or something. Maybe he can't, but like that's the thought process going in his head. There is the battle within yourself is ignorance If you think you can or can't, yeah, that arrogance is formed as a result of another person, like almost an audience to kind of build off of. Is that what you're saying?
Toliy:He can, for example, be very hung, a hungry, and he can eat something on the island that he that like would poison him, but he could just be ignorant to the fact that it's bad for him.
Phillip:Yeah, so there's no arrogance because there's nobody observing him. So the observation, the the arrogance to me, my understanding would be it's built within the observation of another.
Eldar:Yeah, this is what my thing is that as soon as you remove you speaking or talking, for example, in a social setting, and you start paying attention, you cannot display a form of arrogance. Think about that. Remove your speech from the social setting. You're just listening. How can you be arrogant?
Phillip:Now are you saying that? I always think of that, that that study of when the scientist is studying like the Petri dish and they're, they're showing that when you actually look at it it's, it actually becomes a different form and it looks different, versus being on its own Correct. So are you saying that that person is also prone to maybe change their tune and have to act in a certain puff your chest up way yes. Yes To to prove their point.
Eldar:This is what I'm saying.
Phillip:That is what I'm saying.
Eldar:Okay, that's where my head went, that's why I was asking Mike remember I asked you this question like how does that change the dynamic and arrogance actually change when nobody's actually paying attention or looking? Yeah, because I think that a lot of the times right, the times that we have these conversations you know about, you know it could be UFC, it could be whatever it is right, right, yeah, I know this, I know this and we're proving a point. There's somebody we're balancing this arrogance off of. There's a reason why we do it and there's a reason why sometimes it gets us in trouble or maybe sometimes it serves us or we feel like it serves us.
Phillip:Yeah, so I. During the class that I'm taking, they were talking about what a good actor is versus not, and they were saying a really good actor will get to the point where they can block out the camera and pretend that the camera is not there, because so many people will have the camera there and they'll make them nervous and you will act a certain way because somebody else is observing you. That's right. So that person who's not as good can be perceived as maybe like an arrogant person, like maybe they want more attention or they're nervous or they're not as skilled. So that, to me, is an example of maybe. I don't know if it's arrogant, but there's another person involved.
Phillip:I don't know if it's arrogant, maybe.
Eldar:I think maybe it's a reverse thing, where you're, when you have the ability to focus on the craft or the truth itself, without any cameras, without any people you know observing you and stuff like that, you still kind of do what you need to be doing and that's focused on your craft.
Phillip:Yeah, so what would that be? An example of that would be what Somebody who's insecure Like if you're letting the camera influence you. In that example, are you an insecure person.
Eldar:To a degree, yeah, 100%. Versus arrogant, versus focused, versus focused. Okay, or you could be arrogant. Some people can be arrogant, I think, still within the lens.
Phillip:In trying to prove themselves.
Eldar:Yeah, yeah, okay. So can we solve arrogance by just eliminating the social aspect of it?
Mike:Well, I want to understand more why, like he said, it's definitely very. He's saying it's a very important thing. So I'd like to understand more. Why is it such an important thing that he's talking about saying that arrogance is very, very bad? I like to understand it more. Like how is it so detrimental? Because you're saying it's very bad, right Well?
Toliy:yeah, it's detrimental, because you basically create a world for yourself where you live life a very particular way that will hold you back from learning or learning back or hold you back from having relationships, or like it'll hold, like, like I mean, learning will probably happen. When you're arrogant, like eventually, right, but you probably need, like, the right people, or you need to be able to connect the right things, but in the moment of arrogance right, because in that moment requires ignorance, right you don't have the ability to live life under the right impression. Okay.
Eldar:So if you put it that way, then then arrogance just only becomes a result of wrong impressions. Well, it's a, it's a, um, oh, no, no, no no, I'm sorry, I'm going to add to it Wrong association. Hold on it's wrong impressions coupled with insecurity. So then you can use arrogance, arrogant behavior in the social setting in order to fill yourself up Somehow.
Toliy:Well, yeah, yeah, it's, yeah, yeah, it's falsely, yeah, it's like ignorance paired with confidence. Right False confidence. Yeah, false confidence to create security. Yeah, false security we're getting closer, does it?
Katherine:come in this.
Eldar:Yeah, no, no, no, no. It serves a very specific reason, but I think that's filling the void of a certain insecurity, like you said earlier.
Phillip:Yeah. So there is the weakness that's initially there. So the other person is pointing that out and it's like if there's a wound there, right on your own right, and this is the ignorant stage, the arrogance stage is ripping that thing open more and you're coming to the point of like, okay, am I going to allow the other person to maybe question where I'm at and am I going to be open to, like, maybe a new way of thinking, or am I going to double down, close the wound up and be like, yeah, no, no, no, I'm right. And I think the arrogance is from that point where you can make the decision. I can be like oh, maybe I'll listen to somebody else and get another opinion, or I'm closing that thing up. And then the arrogance is forming where I'm doubling down.
Eldar:But the thing is, what's the reason for arrogance to form in the first place?
Phillip:Because, because there's a weakness built, you're building it on weakness. It can't be built from strength. But why?
Eldar:is it why? Why? Why arrogance? Why arrogance has inherently built an attack in it? Because it's an attack, right.
Phillip:No, no, because you're attacking me or you. I feel like you're attacking me because I'm not open minded about being swayed in another direction. I'm so set on my belief system that you need to use this tool for this specific environment.
Eldar:Yeah, I'm hitting you back.
Toliy:Okay, you're you're yeah, but I don't think that you owe. I don't think every scenario is a response to like an attack.
Phillip:No, no. But if you're, if you're an arrogant person, you're going to feel like you're attacked.
Eldar:No, no, I think he might be right totally.
Phillip:Yeah, no, but not always no, no, no, you have to because you're in your ego, you're not willing to get the truth in this moment. You're creating a shell around yourself and that shell to me would not be true to that person. I think he's right.
Eldar:I think there is a defensive side to it.
Toliy:No, I definitely think that there is, but I'm saying that I, I I don't think it needs to be a like, a direct response to a direct attack. It could come from an Instagram, but why would you need to? Why would you?
Katherine:quick thing, don't? Wouldn't you say that an arrogant person takes, takes things, tends to take things more personally? Well, yeah, right, yeah for sure it has to go like it has hand in hand.
Phillip:There's not a reasonable, arrogant person.
Katherine:You cannot be reasonable, and that's. I can see that.
Phillip:I don't see this example.
Toliy:Well, yeah, of course. Yeah because, because to be arrogant you need to be ignorant.
Phillip:Yeah, that's what I'm saying In that moment. Whatever conversation you're having, if that other person who's observing you is giving some kind of advice or pointing out a question, that if that person took it well and said, oh, I didn't think of it like that, that's a reasonable person, not an arrogant person. How about this question?
Eldar:and can an arrogant person still be within truth when he's speaking and half truth when he's speaking, but still be arrogant?
Mike:That'll be a really bad sign, because he's well no because because in order well, he's delusional right.
Phillip:No, in order to have truth.
Katherine:I'm sorry, like you, have to humble like in order to like learn and grow and have truth. You need to be humble. You need to like accept that you're like.
Speaker 4:You need to humble yourself in order to be able to do that Sure, ideally, but I'm not sure if that always works.
Toliy:The definition of being arrogant is having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities. Yeah, you know what?
Mike:You put yourself up higher. There's a very funny like thing that's happening that me, you and Tolian Phil and whoever else watching you see, there's a really huge arrogance playing out on stage right now. This huge fight that we're about to watch tomorrow. Yeah right, this kid is coming across, matt, arrogantly talking crazy, you know. Yeah, so I thought it was funny, I just wanted to mention it. But now let's say he's, we're seeing it, he's being arrogant, right, he's saying y'all, I'm gonna fucking win, I'm gonna smoke him now if he wins, yeah, right, was he arrogant or was he confident? If he loses? Was he arrogant or was he talking the truth?
Katherine:No, but don't you think the outcome of the fight has nothing to do with his arrogance?
Eldar:It might not, but he might be sounds arrogant, but he might be confident and believing that that, with the skills that he has, is actually gonna give him the result that he's looking for.
Katherine:Or the result might convince him that he was right.
Phillip:But arrogance might be the tool for him to get to where he wants to be but the person that he becomes as a result of it is what he has to deal with, but it might get him to the result that he wants.
Mike:The thing is, he may win that fight and still be arrogant, and that would probably prolong his journey of, you know, being more arrogant.
Phillip:Yeah, it might make it worse and reinforce his and that's maybe that's what he needs.
Eldar:If that happens, then he, he is an arrogant right.
Phillip:No, no, he is arrogant. Still how? Because he was over-inflating. Whatever he said.
Toliy:No, but if he won, no, but if he did exactly what he did. He's not over-inflating anything. Yes, correct. He's just telling you what's going to happen.
Eldar:Yeah, like he said. He said he's gonna knock him out in first round. Yeah, if this happens what done now?
Toliy:He just said what's going to happen and it happened? What if he just? Got lucky.
Eldar:What would actually happen then? You can't prove that.
Toliy:The people that are having opinions on him are saying that he's way off then, like they were under the wrong impression, right, yeah, so then it would be a matter of like how do you measure somebody's true confidence within themselves?
Phillip:Do you know that before the fight and then after the fight, do you know that he was coming from a place of true confidence or was he being arrogant? How would you? Determine how that person is actually believing themselves or not. So after that fight, let's say he was arrogant, right?
Toliy:You would have to have a very personal conversation with him, I would have to have a very personal conversation.
Eldar:Well, no, in relationship probably.
Toliy:Well, no, I don't think that you like for something to be deemed as arrogant. There needs to be like a start to finish in in that scenario.
Phillip:Well, that's why it stops after the fight, and then you will know you can re-measure it, yeah, but you can't say that he's arrogant first.
Eldar:You can't yeah, because the hypothesis is still out and we still need to test it, right? Yeah, like he's saying like if in this realm he's saying, look, this is what's gonna happen and this is how I'm gonna do it, we're like, wait, he's being arrogant, but we don't know yet, right?
Toliy:And it does happen where people like these fights happen and someone's like yeah, what I'm gonna do is this I'm gonna make him tired for the first two, three rounds and then round four or five. When he's completely done, I'm gonna take him to deep water, right, and I'm gonna choke him out like Khabib or Islam say the same thing every fight.
Phillip:Yes and a lot of times they actually do it, yeah, but they actually like predict what's going on.
Toliy:No, I understand I understand.
Phillip:So what I'm saying is that this guy right now know, because this is probably his biggest test- yes, it is.
Phillip:So let's say this right, everything leading up to this point. He could be delusional and it's kind of serving him right, but all of a sudden, maybe he beats the biggest guy to me. How I look at it is that it could be arrogant. And does he really believe that this is who he is? Or is he saying this to try to get in their head so then he can believe it himself? That's what I'm saying. I think it's really never know the decipher what that is, because you're right.
Phillip:then Then if he wins and he does truly believe this in himself, then it is an arrogance, then I believe that this is his confidence. He's speaking truth, then he's speaking truth, but I think it's really hard to decipher what place that he's coming from, and I think the more closer you are to this guy in his tone.
Toliy:You can call him like a douchebag, right, like, because they're like yo. If you're gonna win, and you know you're gonna win him, you could just be, you know, like graceful, humble or whatever.
Phillip:right Agreed, but you can't call him arrogant. Yeah. So then to me it's how do you, how do you get into that person and then label them that? Now I don't know how to do this.
Toliy:No, no, no. There has to be a start and finish to that exact scenario. To deem it arrogant.
Eldar:If he gets washed right, if Alex washes him completely, we will know that this statements were arrogant. So, going forward, if he continues to make those statements, we're gonna say this person is arrogant.
Phillip:Yeah, but do you think that the result is the thing, or do you think that it let's say he does win.
Eldar:It is the thing. It has to be within that framework. It is the thing. That's the equation.
Phillip:Yeah, but let's say he does win right, and then you just can go back? Are you automatically absolving him from being not being ignorant, from from being arrogant? Because the way that I look at it is that he could have been lying to himself and it served him. He could have been arrogant.
Toliy:Let's say he wins Well no that, that would have been just ignorant.
Phillip:Okay, so. So then we're going back to the original example of that person is by himself he's being ignorant. But what about when he interacts with the crowd and he's being asked? Isn't there an arrogance in that? Where his ignorance can be in a press conference, there could be arrogance now attached to it, because he's getting asked questions, but in his head he's trying to convince himself that he's gonna win and talk himself up. Now let's say he does win that fight. Now are we just gonna absolve him from from arrogance?
Toliy:Well, no, he's not doing arrogance. No, no, no, there's no arrogance.
Eldar:Yeah, that's the thing. We're not. Yet we can't even call him arrogant, yet.
Toliy:Yeah, because there's not a start to finish that.
Mike:Because we actually don't know. We have to see. The thing is, I guess the ignorance is there's a discrepancy versus of the truth and what's true, what's false, right, and then there's the arrogance where the truth and the false already has been decided and everything's out on the table. You still go on the wrong side.
Toliy:Yeah, I think arrogance is like a combination of emotions, feelings and facts mixed together, or ignorance. I'm not sure if it carries the same type of like a emotional and feeling level.
Phillip:Yeah, I just the way that I'm thinking about it is that we talked about another person being involved and there's an audience, and I'm thinking of a press conference, and I'm thinking him talking like this and the fact that it did not happen yet.
Toliy:Yeah, because it did not happen yet. You cannot call it arrogance or or ignorant behavior. And even if it, even if he does go out there and he loses in first round, he could just be ignorant. He thought that he was level 100 and he was level 3. That I agree, yeah.
Eldar:But he was just operating out of level 3.
Toliy:Okay, like there's. This happens in basketball at the time. Let's say, a group of people play basketball and one guy is really good in that group, right, he could get to a point where he believes he's very good, right, and then he goes and plays in a setting where people are at a higher level and then he's like oh shit, he could get humbled and realized that, like, I mean, he was just ignorant to think that he was so good, but he was actually bad.
Toliy:And this happens. You know, the same thing happens in UFC and like in fighting when you like, especially in scenarios like this. Like this guy is undefeated in Pro MMA, right, so he has never lost.
Phillip:Okay, wait so stick on that example. Let's say, this guy was on a two lost street, right, and he started talking like this and then he won. He'd have to probably be coming from a place of ignorance, almost guaranteed to talk like this, correct? Okay, so the where this example is is he's undefeated right, so he almost has like the right to talk like this, in a sense, and you're waiting for the result. Now we talked in the original example of if you're interacting with somebody, you can tell if they're they're arrogant, and is that because in the moment you're judging them based on something they're already redo doing so, the result is already there. In this example we're talking about the UFC guy. The result is in the future, so calling him arrogant is premature until the result.
Eldar:Calling him arrogant is arrogant.
Phillip:Is arrogant, so it's a premature yes, arrogant response to something that does not have a result, and if he's wrong, he could just be ignorant. Yeah, but I think the way that you you phrase it is right. I think somebody would then say what can I call him? I think you call him like a jerk off or something like an asshole yeah, I just call him an asshole. So like that to me is a discrepancy. It's like what is he being?
Eldar:But I think that yeah, but I think that, like, if you start defining the word jerk off on an asshole, you probably have a hard time even pinning him on that as well. I think ignorance probably will be the most sure, sure, sure way of defining something like this.
Phillip:But if you know what I'm saying, like so imagine nobody spoke like that anymore, right?
Eldar:like, yeah, you're not an asshole. But like, hey, you just ignorant, right? It's almost like it's extending an arm of acceptance. Yeah, but versus judgment.
Phillip:No, but if he wins the LDR, then that means that he didn't have ignorance and that means that his arrogance is now absolved. So what? What can you call somebody like this just himself? Do you think anybody actually acts like that? That's coming from a strong, true place. There has to be weakness built into this. No, you don't think there's a seat of insecurity built within how he's speaking there?
Eldar:probably is yeah, but I don't know him well enough to be able to speak on that. You know what I'm saying. Like I would have to sit down and have an actual conversation face to face and get get an understanding of the character.
Phillip:Yeah, like the way that I look at McGregor too, like, as much as I liked him, that personality is coming from like you know. To me it's like as a result of how you grew up and how you believe. I think there's a seed of like I'm not good enough and I have to overcompensate for who I am, and now it's served him and made him a big star. But if you look at him like, I think there's still seeds of insecurity in him.
Eldar:Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Phillip:And you can say, hey, you absolve him of arrogance, maybe he was ignorant a bit. Or you can call him like a douchebag, jerk off, whatever. But I think with him, I watch him and I'm like, I like him, I'm drawn to him, but like he's definitely not sure of himself. Yeah, at all times.
Eldar:Yeah, that's the sense that I get with having a conversation with him 100%, especially when he punches an old man in the face.
Phillip:Yeah. So I think that that kind of middle ground place is interesting, because if this guy does pay off, there's no ignorance there, there's no arrogance, we're just absolving him. He's just him, he's just himself. I can't look at that guy and just say I haven't listened to him yet, so I don't know. I'm going off of what you guys are saying but yeah, I just don't see a truly confident person. To me would be like the way like that Volk talks, like I like the way that he talks.
Phillip:He comes off truly confident if he loses, he takes like a man, he's humble but like the way that he comes off is like all the training and everything like like that's his talking, like he's doing it and he doesn't need to go talk and and say all these things. I just think somebody who does this if it's for the show and you're trying to market yourself, I think there's. You can call it clever, but I don't have like a positive connotation on clever. Mm-hmm.
Mike:Okay, so I don't know, but that's how I look at these okay yeah, it's also hard when you're watching the stuff right, like if you're rooting for one guy. Yeah, you see the other guy, you're more inclined to call him an asshole because you have your own horse in a race well that I'm going to separate your own horse yeah.
Eldar:So you may call him a jerk off, but I'll say actually, you know, he's just an entertainer and he's being very smart here yeah, I think that the more you dig into these types of stories, the more you find out that you find yourself kind of in the middle, yeah, and maybe it's leaning a certain type of way. You have your own prejudice, yeah, you have your own prejudices, yeah but there has to be a truth, right.
Phillip:That's why we're trying to define the truth, and that is why.
Eldar:That is why we watch the sport, and when the truth comes out, it's in the ring. Yeah, yes, this is why I like it. Somebody's gonna get punched in the face. They can potentially die in the shit. You know what I mean. Have real serious complications, retire from the shit, like all the stuff. I think that's where the truth kind of shines through.
Eldar:So the truth is observing that guy in the moment when he gets his face punched off like yeah is that guy, still that talking like shit guy, we're gonna quickly find out that everything that he believed was actually incorrect. Yes, it's almost like okay cool. How much arrogance level do you have in life where now life needs to humble you?
Mike:versus how much beating can you take from life?
Toliy:yeah, but even if he loses, he may not necessarily get humbled, for sure no, but depends how you lose well, no, not even that well, sure, but no, but like you know, you can, you can lose. Yeah, very ignorant or arrogant person could have a bunch of reasons as to why they lost, and if these things didn't happen, they would have won oh okay, so he's saying they would apply excuses, excuses, yeah they would again use arrogance to a depends how far the person's gone.
Mike:Yeah, which I agree.
Eldar:Yeah, and the only way to know that, obviously is to have a really personal conversations and relationships with those people to know whether or not, okay, this person is really arrogant and ignorant, you know, and they need to be humbled yeah, yeah yeah okay, it's probably a little bit difficult.
Oleg:Is it safe to say life always humbles you. Oh, life will always be, no matter what or no uh, it would time.
Eldar:Only if you need to be humbled, only if you're open to it. No, no, no see, that's the thing.
Phillip:Like I think it's actually like it's just as justice you don't think you have to be open to be humbled? Don't you think that if you have a really big ego and exterior that you can push it off for a long time?
Mike:you would have to you wouldn't if you were to ask anybody with that question. They'll probably say no initially, but then, if you ask them about their life, you realize that that's very humbling, that they're getting beat up every single day and the waves keep crashing this the spite of the fact that they might show you, yeah, like a exterior that is very strong because they might be under the wrong impression yeah, wow, babe, whoa, that's deep
Phillip:so that, so that person learned the hard way so that person who's basically breaking their fall with, with the big ego and big personality, you're saying that they're still getting humbled, but they're just not showing it. But there's not showing the the results, so they're again hiding it. So is the impact not as big on the person who has a big ego and is arrogant when it comes to being humbled?
Mike:you never know, I guess, which, which, what is it? They say, the thing, the straw that breaks the camel's back? Yeah, he may get humbled to a certain point in this exchange, but not fully humbled where he needs to be. So he means you beat up five, ten more times, you know. So everybody's threshold is different, where how much amount of, I guess, pain and suffering they want to take to say, but until they come to the point say like yo, I'm fucking stupid, I don't know, I need well.
Toliy:I think, yeah, well, well, like I associate how humbling with having the ability to connect why something's happening so where my head goes is those examples of like the, those like documentaries that you watch.
Phillip:Like the sociopath, like killer people who, like they have no remorse of anything that they do. They go to jail, they're ready to get the death penalty and like they go in like hey, like you know, I'm glad I did all that I did and they almost become a celebrity where they want to be recognized, they want to be caught. People are writing them notes while they're in jail and like they're getting all this recognition. So my example of when we're talking like this that that's popping in my head is that person that you're watching. They did all these things and like are you telling me that? Like that person is being humbled, but they're also doubling down every time and I'm just not no, no, no, no, no, no, okay, okay, okay, okay.
Eldar:So in that example, yeah, okay, in that example, yeah, what's happening, and I think this is an example for Mike Tyson, okay, it's a Mike Tyson example, sure, okay, where he didn't live such a good life, yeah, right, and he knew this, he acknowledged this, okay, and now he turned his life around, right. Let's just say, quote unquote turn his life around or is trying to turn it around. Okay, so doing the right thing to understanding and philosophy and truth and and all this other stuff, rehab or whatever, all the stuff that he's doing right, okay, he's working up that no, but I think his example is completely different no, it is the same example no, but he's talking about these people going to jail.
Eldar:I'm explaining to you. They're going to jail and then, they're being it and then it no, no. And then they're being praised right by some people to getting mail and all this other stuff, admirers or whatever. It is right talking about the same thing. I'll connect it if you want, right? Mike Tyson is in his new trajectory now. This is not the Mike Tyson that we used to know, totally different. I will eat your kids yes, right, no, no, he's like. No, no, no. Now he's on a different stuff, right?
Phillip:now GMT. He did psychedelics and that's a different path here's a different path, correct?
Eldar:okay, he's sinned so much, right, publicly, mm-hmm, that so many people will continue to admire of this side, the bad side, mm-hmm, mike Tyson the savage, yeah, okay, so the new Mike Tyson is now the rehab one, the nice one, the good one, right, it's constantly needs to be reminded by this identity right here, and that is a forever sin that you have to do, where you have to constantly say or remind yourself, and then those people that, look, I'm not that person anymore, but they want to continue to remind you that, hey, they don't only remind you that you are here, they praise this identity but in this example you understand this he's on a trajectory somewhere else, this one in my example, he did not change, he's not on a trajectory.
Eldar:Oh, I thought he already like.
Phillip:So what's your question? So what I'm saying is that it where, where in this example for me, where is this guy getting humbled?
Eldar:he's getting death penalty, bro, so the whole yeah he's never gonna get humbled that's what I'm saying.
Toliy:So there would be me that game so there is the humbling in jail.
Phillip:I see the way the individuals, but he's getting praised what?
Oleg:who by sick?
Phillip:so so let me this example right people exactly you're not gonna praise him.
Oleg:Yeah, others not gonna praise him.
Phillip:Who's praise? Who's praise him? Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't matter, it's sick people. No, no, no, no, no, no, no that's the hell, bro.
Eldar:That's the hell. I'm telling you about that. The individuals that are ignorant are praising Mike Tyson for the ignorance, so you're saying in that, try to bring him back.
Phillip:But I'm saying where, where's the humbling in that?
Eldar:I understand as a hell in the well the humbling the humbling is the fact that this person whoever you're talking about yeah, wanted to do this terrorize people, whatever the fuck he was into. Right, he wanted to do this for a very long time. Oh yeah, he did not want to get caught. He got caught. They caught him by the hand and they put him in the place where he can't continue to do his art or what a fuck he was doing in his mind.
Phillip:So let me say this so in some of these examples, what they, what they've found, is, from like a psychological standpoint, some of these people actually do want to get caught, because what happens is when they go to jail they do get the recognition and people get to go watch them on television so yeah so, but in that where's the humbling in me?
Eldar:or like a what well, where is the? How long do they want to be praised for? Forever, or for just a moment of time?
Toliy:or or like or like a suicide bomber yeah, like they know they're going to die. Yeah, I want to inflict as much pain like yeah, they're probably never gonna get humbled of it.
Phillip:Right, that's what I'm saying is where is the humbling start? And stop for a person that's like a like a like out of their mind, deranged, I mean that's a sickness, you talk yeah so like to me, the like in those examples, I I don't see the humbling because you're, you're not willing to go on a separate trajectory to be better, because now I think my example is a lot more difficult to talk about.
Eldar:Yours example is a lot less, because you gotta understand that sure, they're caught right, but every day, for example, you don't have free will. Okay, let's tell you oh you, you want to sleep. You sleep at 9 pm. You want to eat? You eat at 6 am. Okay, you want to take a shit. This is when this is open okay, so now we watch you.
Phillip:So a non-caught version of him in that example.
Eldar:So, like that person who's deranged, who is good enough, who doesn't get caught, yeah, okay so this is why I'm so, then I don't think this is the only one time that you live you also don't know the personal.
Mike:How did the people again going to? Yeah, no, I just think I like humbling.
Toliy:Yeah, no, no, I know but, he's an apple is a very good example no, but I think to me the only way to get like for the actual act of humbling to happen is that there needs to be a physical action where something is happening to you, to you right where you're.
Eldar:I spilled my drink on my sweater, right? Yeah, if you're trying to be cute right now, you know I'm saying you just can't you have your fucking school like the act of the actual act of humbling it's, it's.
Toliy:It's a moment in time where you are, let's just say they like it's. It's like a moment in time where you're wrong, right, you're actually wrong and you don't have a. You don't have any reasons in your mind as to why, or you're wrong and you realize that it's because of you. Okay, how?
Eldar:about this humbling, being humbled. Right is also contingent to society, a social factor. How about that? Yes or no?
Toliy:I don't know if it's contingent towards a social factor. Most of the time it's a dynamic. So you could be, for example, wrong, right, and then, like I said, like Ilya Taporia, right, he could. For example, he's saying all this and let's say he really believes it right, the humbling factor would come, is a volt goes in there and convincingly beats him and everything, and he gets to a point. So for humbling to happen, the person must, like they have to be in a position where they don't have a reason as to like they don't have an excuse as to why something is happening, of acknowledgement of being wrong. So they don't.
Mike:So yeah, they're in the process, but during the process, right Like there's a rock bottom I would call humbling is probably rock bottom.
Toliy:You can turn it, you're talking about, like there's a difference between like, a like, for example, a total humbling on, for example, a particular subject. But the actual act of being humbled is a moment to moment experience and it has to be. It has to be where you are. You don't have a reason as to why this happens.
Mike:All those moments that you spoke about until you get to that place, humbled, it's still. You're being humbled, whether you recognize it or not yes If it's for a second, you feel like you're suffering, you're being humbled.
Eldar:Well, not, not, let's define it. Let's define humbled. How about that?
Toliy:Yeah, no, no, for example. I'll give you an example. And I don't think it has to be suffering Like, I don't think it has to be tied to there. If he goes in there loses first round. But he had a bad wake up, right, he's in a lose, yes, and he could say, like yo, I, only I lost only because I have a way cut and if I didn't have it, then I would have won.
Toliy:That's right. He lost because, let's say, the first 10 seconds the fight before had like a wet spot, he slips and he hurts his ankle yeah Right. So in those cases the result is the same. For example, he lost convincingly, but he's tying a particular reason as to why he lost. So, in a humbling, in those moments, you have to get to a point. You have to have the feeling that the reason why this is not this particular thing did not work as intended, is because of your own doing or you don't know why, why it happened, but that's like when you reach that fucking moment of no, that's the only time humbling exists.
Toliy:Any other time there's no humbling.
Phillip:So with the unibomber he never experienced. So what is all this?
Toliy:stuff called. Well give me a scenario.
Phillip:No, go back to the example with the unibomber who never we agree that he never gets humbled right. He's just gonna the unibomber guy, whoever you were talking about the bomb, the suicide, suicide bomber, whatever right.
Eldar:Yeah, so that guy is going to then just die, and he's to me there you go, there you go, there you go, there you go. See, the assumption of just die, yeah, is an assumption that you know that he's exalted from everything and on this earth, right. That's an assumption that he's not gonna pay for his sins.
Phillip:No, no, no, I think that's like something out of all this. That's like out of our like comprehension.
Eldar:That's like God, listen to me.
Phillip:No, no, no, no, no we're talking about the human element of being humbled.
Eldar:Okay, if we go around the room right now, right, and we say that where we were arrogant and we got humbled, is that a good thing or a bad thing? If we go around the room, most people will answer what Good, there you go. Yeah, we have the ability in this life to get humbled. Yeah, and because what? When we get humbled, we become better as people. You know what I'm saying. We become more wise. Let's just say we level up, whatever it is Right.
Phillip:Where's that guy getting?
Eldar:No, no, no, no, no. He's not getting humbled in this lifetime. Think about that. Yeah, he didn't have the opportunity to get humbled in his lifetime. He has to go wherever the fuck he goes and nobody really knows, because nobody came back and told us, like yo, we went, we came back this how the shit looks? He's going to the unknown fucking place.
Phillip:Yeah, he might come back as a tumbleweed Do you understand this, do you understand? We don't know.
Eldar:We don't know, but that's what I meant.
Phillip:So we're agreeing. This is the no. No.
Eldar:I'm explaining to you. That is a bad thing. I, we both agree, but I was coming up with. That is the humbling thing, bro. It's because he's has not deserved yet to even be humbled. Yeah, Because we as people, even if we arrogant, we we have the chance to get humbled. That is leveled up more than that motherfucker that didn't even deserve to get humbled in his lifetime.
Oleg:This is crazy here to get humbled. Yes, he just took his own life. Yes, yes.
Eldar:He didn't have the balls, he didn't get. He didn't have the balls.
Oleg:He's 100% right, he didn't go in the cage, like in UFC, to get humbled.
Phillip:Yes, yes I get it, but that's my whole point when I was bringing up an example. No, this is very bad bro, I was bringing up an example of something that doesn't get humbled. This is the example. It's even worse, yeah.
Toliy:That's even worse. Yeah, but yeah, in that example he doesn't get humbled.
Eldar:That's your example. No, no, no, no. But what does he get? Can you tell me? Fuck, you don't know. And that motherfucker is scary to me, oh yeah, but is it not? Scary to you.
Phillip:But we're in a green seat, doesn't get humble. No, no, no, no we mean in that scenario.
Eldar:I'd rather get humbled, bro. I'd rather get humbled yeah.
Toliy:No, no, no that example.
Eldar:he does not get humbled, but he gave up the most At that time. Well, you both think he had it. He gave up his life.
Oleg:He gave up his life.
Eldar:He gave up his chance.
Toliy:bro, that's the most valuable thing, you have in your life in health, your life. Think about it. You could just say that what happened was even worse.
Phillip:Yeah, we can argue the severity of it, but we're saying we're talking about arrogance, so we're talking about being humbled.
Eldar:I think this is the most arrogant person to ever live. Sure, but that is what he did.
Phillip:So the most arrogant person an example of the most arrogant person in the world is the person who does not give themselves the ability to be humbled.
Eldar:That's right. Yeah, yeah, that's just one of those levels we're at agreeance. Yeah, definitely.
Phillip:I'm going to agreeance on the whole thing, but the point was we found an example that you cannot be humbled, and that is the most dangerous person in the world.
Eldar:Yeah, because, like I said, if we were to take a survey around the room to be humbled, this is a good thing.
Phillip:Yeah, we're talking about moral integrity. We're talking about, like, our belief system. We're trying to remove what's bad in us.
Eldar:Yeah, Ego, pride and all this other crap. I agree that's holding us away from being happy. But as soon as we get humbled, which is a process of becoming better, right as people, we become happier.
Phillip:Yeah.
Eldar:And we all agree that this is a good thing for us.
Phillip:Yeah, I totally agree. We're not in disagreeance on that Right.
Mike:Yeah, yeah. But back to what we were talking about. No, back to the humbling thing. Okay, do you guys don't think that the process until you reach being humbled is a humbling process?
Phillip:No, I'm not understanding the question you have to accept that.
Eldar:When you play basketball.
Mike:is it humbling? Not always when I play basketball. No, it's not humbling. It's not humbling so what is it?
Toliy:Well, I'm not sure, like you're saying anything, though.
Phillip:You have to give a specific example.
Mike:Yeah, You're not in shape right To play basketball and you get hurt. You have a hard time playing. It comes to details. Yeah, Okay, Right, Is that difficult for you? Does that kind of give you like when it happens?
Toliy:it's absolutely humbling, it's humbling right but it's only humbling If I'm able to make the correlation of what's actually happening.
Eldar:Yes, if he's under the impression that he's going to go out there and fuck shit up and then he doesn't do absolutely nothing and then he recognizes it, then that's humble.
Toliy:But if I don't recognize it, and I have an excuse as to why you're like, oh, look, that one didn't pass me the ball.
Mike:Yeah yeah, sure, I get that, but the thing is, you still haven't been humbled so that you can make a change, right.
Eldar:Well, that's the thing. I think humbling is the catalyst to change.
Mike:Right, but how many times do you have to keep getting humbled?
Eldar:As many as you need.
Mike:That's what I'm saying that's why it is still humbling the process of getting to that place where you are humbled. Mike, you're talking about the opportunity to be humbled versus being humbled.
Phillip:Correct. There's unlimited chances in this example that you're giving. That totally has the ability to be humbled.
Mike:There needs to be a correlation between him saying damn you know what Like, even if you, even if you correlate it in that moment, there's no guarantee that he's humbled.
Toliy:Oh no no, no, that is the moment. I think he has a humbling as a moment to moment. That is the humbling.
Phillip:Yes, the humbling is here accepting it in the moment and saying, damn you know what? All those other thousand examples, a thousand and one. I'm realizing that it's on me Like I'm doing something wrong. It's not has anything to do with an outside factor.
Toliy:I don't know if you could deem anyone and anything completely humble. No, yeah, which is why it's always going to be a moment to moment experience Plus.
Eldar:I also don't think that you can point the finger and still get humbled.
Toliy:You have to point the finger at yourself to get humbled you either have to know yeah, you either have to point the finger at yourself, or get to an actual point where you don't know why, and then become a seeker Either or those two things are humbling. Nonetheless, if you have a reason as to why something happened. That's not humble automatically.
Eldar:Okay, yeah.
Phillip:Yeah, I agree with that.
Toliy:Yeah.
Eldar:So what are we saying? Guys, Don't play basketball. What's the word.
Oleg:Listen, where does arrogance come?
Toliy:from yeah, but there's also arrogance on all different types of like levels, where it like affects you in different ways, obviously, like there could be someone who's crazy, extremely like to a very, very high, extreme, arrogant, and then and then a person who's you know not, not, not as much. I got an example.
Phillip:So, based off of it, we were all in a green set. Being humble is a moment to moment thing, so can you ever say that, oh, he's a really humble guy. Or can you only truly say that he's acting humble in that moment, because that person who's humble then can turn around a second later and be totally arrogant. So can you actually be humble as like a?
Eldar:characteristic. Now you're talking about speech and speaking properly, and I agree with you that. Yeah, that's a characterization.
Toliy:Yeah, like you could say that, like yo, Mike's very humble and someone else can be like no, he's not.
Eldar:What are you talking about? He's humble with his friends, family. He's not.
Toliy:No, but even that, your, your definition or your opinion as as to what it means for someone to have like a humble character and for you to deem someone humble, could be completely different, for example, from Eldar's, so you both can use the same word, but you guys are meaning two different things. Yeah, that's also a possibility.
Phillip:Okay, so what if we both had the same definition? I still don't think that it would be fair, like to call. I really do.
Mike:I agree with you. We're humble all the time.
Eldar:You want to speak correctly, you would say okay 51 or 52% of the times in situations this person will act humbly, If you want to call that humble then okay, majority of the time majority of the time
Mike:majority of the time he's humble. Yeah, right Again. It's such a hard.
Eldar:It's like coming into the room like my professor always said you come into the room and you say it's hot in here, right? You're like, oh, it's hot in here. Well, that's a that's a bad way to express yourself. How do you define hot? There you go. He says totally, over there sitting there. He's like no, actually he runs hot. So he actually likes it cooler. So he's like, no, it's not hot out here at all, it's, it's cool. You know what I mean. But the person who's called a Catherine, for example? To her it's a completely different temperature. So you have to come in here and say I feel hot in this room right now.
Toliy:Or if I turn on the AC and it gets cool in 10 minutes. It's not hot in here, it's hot in here right now. Yeah, correct.
Eldar:Yeah, and most of the time we have inconsistencies and problems because of the fact that we don't know how to properly speak.
Toliy:Yeah, well use words in such a way. Yeah, well then, also then leads to again wrong assumptions, wrong definitions, wrong understandings, and that all creates like not being humble, being arrogant being ignorant, confusion. Yeah yeah, this is how these different, like I feel like cultures have issues, countries have issues, people have issues, right, because, like there's just wrong words being said, the things are being assumed right. Like you hear, like, oh, like, let's say, you don't know who Mike is Elder, says Mike's nice guy hanging out with Mike and Mike's a jerk.
Eldar:you're like, yo, what the fuck going on.
Toliy:Elder definition of what a nice guy is could be completely different from yours, but the same word is being used.
Eldar:Philosophers throughout history right, had their own philosophies. So before you start reading their philosophies, what you have to read is their definitions of usage of words. So when they say the word object, they mean very specific thing. When they use the word form, they use very specific definition. For that Each philosopher had their own definitions. Before you start reading, so you can get a really good understanding as to why they use the word that they use and for what reason, so you're not confused.
Toliy:So it's like a compass to have a key, a key on the map.
Phillip:So when somebody says like, the key to like relationship is communication right. It's not only communication it's the, it's the, it's the, the actual, like word, like the keys and like how you're defining words. So it's like oh yeah there's communication but it's like taking communication like stripping it down for what it is. That's right it's how are me and you defining each word and what does it mean? To me versus you and if we had? Well, if we're going off the same key, the dogs are absolutely ripping it.
Phillip:If we're going off the same, thing and then we're talking, then we can actually have a conversation, have a relationship. This is correct, yeah.
Eldar:And most of the time I think through reason, because we have an innate ability to reason. We won't disagree on those definitions and the place where we get to.
Phillip:Right, so when there's like the world leaders and stuff that we're talking about, wars can start off of having different definitions of this, now of the same thing.
Oleg:So if you had an interpreter, like, break it down you had somebody to clearly define it.
Phillip:This could prevent you know the oh, my God, you don't say.
Eldar:What do we say about war, mike Wars, all wars can be prevented, and completely eradicated.
Mike:If you said I don't remember what we said, but I know what you're talking- about they go to SEMA.
Phillip:That's a good point. No, I would say if they have clearly defined definitions.
Oleg:Sure.
Eldar:I said that if you can't, if you don't make statements and you keep an open ended curiosity. Curiosity if you have genuine curiosity is wars will never exist.
Phillip:Well, yeah, because they're based off of I believe this and you believe this, and I'm deep rooted and connected and attached to curiosity.
Eldar:Curiosity is an antidote to war.
Phillip:Curiosity is an antidote to war, to attachments to your belief systems.
Eldar:No, no, why? Because which? What? Because you want to continue to ask questions. If you keep asking questions, you will never make conclusions. Yeah, you can't be. If you can't make a conclusion, you will never be an opposing side to an opposing side. Therefore, wars can exist, right? So?
Phillip:so to this podcast theme you can't be curious and arrogant simultaneously.
Mike:Impossible, of course not, okay, possible.
Eldar:So that's an antidote.
Phillip:Yes, an antidote. So curiosity is the antidote to war.
Eldar:Yeah, because arrogance breeds, war Sure, yeah.
Toliy:Oh you like it. I love it you can't be the smile on your face.
Eldar:You like. You like in matrix right now. You plugged in and they fucking installing the information in you right now.
Phillip:But you can't be curious and arrogant at the same time.
Eldar:Yeah, same moment. It's impossible. But you can always not buy it because the arrogance at the same time, right?
Toliy:No, it's impossible.
Katherine:Curious question, I think it's because the arrogant person already knows it Correct.
Eldar:They know that they are assumption of an arrogance person is they know they already know the person who's curious ask questions as they don't know.
Toliy:I think no, no, we have to say I give them up to think that you know the right questions to ask.
Phillip:No, genuinely yes it can be yeah, but, but. But those are not real questions, can we?
Eldar:say genuinely curious, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Toliy:Yeah, yeah, there has to be a genuine, I guess.
Oleg:Yeah, curiosity, real curiosity, but you can ask questions and be arrogant.
Toliy:Oh, 100%, I think I actually have an yeah.
Phillip:But that's not a genuine we have to say a genuine curiosity.
Eldar:Right, 100%. You actually want to learn. Genuine curiosity comes from recognizing your ignorance on the subject matter, realizing and being excited about the answer and wanting it so bad that you ask it.
Phillip:So the person that's doing it. So say the person that we were talking to today on the phone. We won't say any names, right? This person was asking. She maybe wanting to learn, but she didn't really want to learn. I think there was an arrogance in her approach and she wasn't coming from a genuine place of like, true curiosity.
Toliy:Yeah, you've seen that example. It was on and off.
Phillip:On and off.
Toliy:Exactly, there was moments of genuine curiosity, but there was when when some of those, when some questions are answered, it led to the belief that you can make certain conclusions about certain things. Yeah, then you hear the person yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Phillip:Like they want to be in control.
Toliy:They think that they they have answered what they're looking for, but they haven't, then it didn't get it.
Eldar:No, this is a phenomena, what you're saying and asking a lot of things where you think like why I feel like you know something and when you get on the phone call, you lose it completely.
Phillip:Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Eldar:That's why we're recording calls next week and I don't want to diagnose you as bipolar. Yeah, you know what I'm saying, what you say, how about? Okay, cool? Yeah, I don't want to diagnose as bipolar, but that's what it feels like.
Phillip:Yeah, I would say like in that it's my, it's my ability to like, fully comprehend and understand, and then it's my identity to shut it off completely, yeah, but but I think within that there is the arrogance is coming from the other side of there, has to reach a breaking point, of getting to the point to allowing yourself to be humble, but where I would say bipolar versus ignorance is there has to be a part of myself that believes that there is nothing wrong. I think when Tully was saying it if I don't believe that there's an issue, why would I then be open to help and then trying to do something else?
Eldar:The individual, the inquisitive individual that is in front of me right now. Yeah, I cannot not be curious about what the fuck is going on on the on Monday morning right.
Phillip:So there has to be a point, a part of me that is believing that there is nothing Completely wrong. What is that part? So that's ignorance, that's arrogance, sure Okay.
Toliy:Yeah, that's arrogance.
Phillip:Yeah, because there's other people involved, so it is arrogance yeah. Yeah, I'm sorry, I had an example of it, totally the most arrogant person I've ever met, and he met a lot of people.
Toliy:Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah like I guess it could be deemed as like a small thing, but I definitely. But it was actually right before this podcast. I don't know if you you caught it. No something that Phillips said.
Eldar:Come on, phillips has a lot of stuff and we have a lot of good content.
Toliy:No, no, no, right before. The podcast is something that he he that that's what's asking him. You can ask a question. He asked a question, but he was arrogant at the same time. I asked it about the podcast. No, right before the podcast. I. Don't know bro, it was about Recording the calls.
Eldar:Oh, okay, okay. No, I don't remember what. I remember the conversation a little bit. Well, yeah, so I was saying that, listen the reason why I don't remember is because, I'm drinking this really good whiskey and if they give us a really serious proposition, might you know when you reach out to?
Phillip:the whiskey is magic, it's always magic.
Toliy:Yes, I feel it in you, you're going into this place.
Phillip:We're like, yes, it's slowly moving like this, everything's kind of. But, I see it Okay. So what I asked was no, no.
Eldar:I think that what I at least remember that I was feeling when the conversation was transpiring and I wasn't really paying attention, is that, as totally was recommending to recall the calls, still was adamant about it. Phil was like no, no, no, I would rather sit in on these things. No, no, no, no, no, no.
Toliy:No, it was. It was something that I was calling out it was. It was similar to something that I was calling out Mike for doing. He was asking a question Uh-huh, but making a statement at the same time. Oh, I never did that. Oh, shit, allegedly, allegedly what I was saying was so what I?
Phillip:was saying was this is what I think that we should do. But then I was also asking, like what you think, so I think, where the Perceived arrogance was. Or maybe the arrogance was where I didn't see. It was that, as I was asking the question, it was almost like I had my mind made up yes. So I do see that because, okay, the way that I asked it, I think I, if I came across in a way and said, hey, totally, you asked a question, but you had a statement at the same time.
Phillip:Yes, yeah. So he said yeah.
Toliy:He asked me he is like yo, like next week I want to record some calls, but I shouldn't record all of them because it's gonna be too many. And you guys are like not gonna Want to listen to all of them and like I probably would benefit more if I just recorded one or two. And we just had a deep dive on it. Like he came to me to that. And then that's when I asked him like wait, are you asking me if, like what's the best thing to do? And then and that's when he said yes, I am and then I said no, actually.
Toliy:Wow because you said they're like every call it's gonna be too repetitive like it's that.
Phillip:So the proper way to ask what the problem with me to ask would have been like hey, you're already asking, so this is what I said. I would have said, hey, totally. Um, what I'm thinking is there's like two different ways to go about it that I thought of I can either record Maybe one call we can talk about it, or we can record all the calls.
Toliy:What do you?
Phillip:think is the most beneficial. I started with hey, I think this is it. Yeah the way that I phrased it. Yeah.
Eldar:I already have my mind made. Do you realize is a statement? Do you realize is a piece of shit living inside of you right now? No, yeah, yeah, maybe he's farting.
Oleg:Maybe they're far. Yeah, it's really in that moment. Yeah, I'm farting, I don't even know.
Toliy:In that moment, the way I felt was like wait, how is this person, person, yeah making this statement that he knows what would be the best for him? Yeah, the best for him. Yeah, prove this. Like so, like that to me would be like what, what you just said would definitely be a better Way to go about it. Right again, like, I guess, like a next level of home of humble would be like, hey, I know that. Like, for example, like you could say, like the last time we, we, we spoke about, for example, me improving, you know, an X, y and Z, the next step was to record calls. What's the best way to go about that?
Toliy:right, not even coming for any, any solution yeah, not coming with any ideas that that. That is just like all you are is bringing something up, that that other people said that like what is it kind of grains was right, and then you're just asking, like what you should do. I agree that there's no like opinion. They're done but like. The way that you came across in that moment was like you were doing the statement question thing where like are you Experiencing a humbling moment?
Phillip:Yeah, yeah, that that's a realization, in that that I realized, and I think the other example is I went up to Eldar and I asked them or I think I said elder, did I say it to you first?
Mike:I Think I was the building.
Phillip:Well, well, I'll ask him again. But I went to elder and I said, hey, I got a lot of benefit from hearing you know totally on the call, you know I want to do that. And he's like, yeah, I don't just ask totally. He'd be like totally open to it. And then I asked you. So I think when I came to that Example, I think that was probably more humbling or kind of like. Come like from an even place Versus being arrogant, I think. The other one, because I put a statement in there, I almost assumed that I know something when I'm not there. That's the arrogance.
Toliy:Yeah, and and yeah, yeah, yes, definitely, the one with me was definitely much more than the one with with, with, with Eldar, but but also still, there's still, for example, a level of I think, still some level of arrogance, because you're assuming that, for example, time is right for you to to benefit by listening on the calls and that you're capable of understanding of what's going on. For that, for then you, for example, to Either like make particular changes or like understand certain things.
Toliy:Yeah, yeah, yeah you could have also said hey, like Like, for example, if we aren't that a plan for recording your calls, right? You could have said like hey, do you think it would be beneficial for me to also, while I do this, to sit in on your calls? Sure, right. And then, for example, like Eldar or myself, right, if in that moment, you appointed us as, like, the person who knows right. We could have said like, hey, yes, that would be a good idea, right.
Phillip:Or we could say like, hey, it's actually pretty mature, because you could probably, you, you could actually hurt yourself by making too many Assumptions of what you think is going on yeah, so I came in so like, so where I, where I hear it, is that when the moment of the weakness that's built into it, there's some kind of weakness or insecurity built into it and I think I probably do this on calls too is where you try to control the outcome before it actually happens.
Phillip:So when I'm doing that statement, I think it's coming from a week, a weak place of not knowing, and I'm trying to control it, where I totally need to just trust and just say like hey, you know, in this example they did bring up these examples of you know before of hey recording the calls and now I'm coming, but now I'm trying to also control it where it doesn't hit like as much, where I'm almost Using the arrogance as, like we talked about, it's almost like a buffer to not fully accept in that moment that that you know there is something that needs to be worked on. I think it's a defense mechanism. Oh, there you go. Yeah, so I'll.
Phillip:We were talking about, remember, I came up to you today. Yeah, I said, oh, I really got a lot of benefit off of totally on the call. Yeah, so he's saying even in that it's premature and there's some arrogance built in that, which I do agree, because if you guys Recommended for me to record the calls, I'm also then coming up with something else and saying, hey, I think we should do this thing also where it's probably a better approach.
Eldar:We're totally gave the example is the thing is yeah, yeah, I get it. There's arrogance built in is because we already talked about a lot about learning. Yeah, and how a lot of times where the individuals that need to come for learning, they can't dictate the terms.
Phillip:Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm coming to you guys with, like, an added solution when I didn't even do the first one, and we talked about how.
Eldar:What is it to be a good student? Right, yeah, tommy, this is what Tommy comes in. I'm trying, you know, with the suggestion that we recently made. Right, I want to experiment with this. I want to be a good student where Tommy is gonna guide me through Learning how to stretch properly and stuff like that. I didn't prepare for a workout or prepare for basketball or whatever it is right, and I really would like to go off of Whatever knowledge that he's gonna get.
Toliy:But you're not holding your breath in that.
Eldar:I am not, but I'm optimistic to find out how I'm gonna be a good student in this process. Right, and in this process I almost have to give myself to him you know he's gonna train you. He's gonna train me, yeah, so when?
Phillip:did this happen? This happened last week.
Eldar:Yes, the first go learn. Oh, he's gonna go learn. He said this, yes, but what I'm saying is that part of being a good student is is becoming automatically almost humble and trusting the other Individual to do right by you, right, and I can't come now to Tommy and say, hey, tommy, actually I'd like to learn this way, like that would be arrogant.
Phillip:Yeah, because, yeah, he didn't even start to give you what you gave, yet Correct. And you're coming from a place of, hey, I want to learn, and you're like wait and even do step one, yet how are we going through an additional step? That's the arrogance.
Toliy:Yeah, well, that, yeah. And he could have like like a guy, eyes, eyes. I said again the most proper way what, what he did there was not as bad as be Before. But he could have said like, hey, do you think I would benefit from listening Right to, for example, to your calls? And I could say like hey, actually no, because you're gonna assume a lot of things, yes, by listening. Or I could say like yes, you would actually. Yeah, what right?
Eldar:Yeah, like that you know, yeah, so you know. I mean Again arrogance, humbling, like it's almost an intertwined dance, yeah Saying the same thing.
Mike:humility, yeah, this is still stands.
Toliy:Get humbled or get fucked right in that sense, I'm gonna make that into a shirt ever. I will make you talking about shirts for a long time. And, bro, I have so many shirts you don't understand, bro. Yeah, that's not where to start.
Eldar:That's the best seller. Yeah, but I'm gonna put it, I'm gonna put a little asterisk next to it.
Phillip:Right now we think that's the best thing.
Eldar:That's one of the big sayings. Yeah, it's For a long time. I mean, we talked about discipline. A lot to disciplines has a lot of quotes as well. You know discipline is dead and stuff like that, you know. But arrogance is a big one.
Toliy:Yeah, those, those the only two options in any scenario.
Eldar:Get humbled oh yeah, fuck, no, getting fucked. Right is is it is getting fucked or it's almost like it's a super necessary process of life. That is, ultimately, if you go through it, if you can withstand it, you can come out on top momentarily.
Toliy:You're going to get. Wait no moment, right all them down.
Phillip:Don't you write all the phrases down? Oh, I do yes. Within the last 10 or 20, the how many do you write down?
Eldar:one every podcast, or only no, no no, when it comes out, I don't really there's a punch behind it, I'll run. Can you read the last five or ten of them? Sure.
Katherine:No. Why well, don't you want to make it merch?
Eldar:Well, there is gonna be merch, yeah, okay.
Katherine:So you want to say it out but it's only official.
Mike:Merchants are gonna be like four figures for a T-shirt, minimal.
Toliy:Can we do like?
Mike:yeah, I'm not sure if there's a copy right in any of those like yeah you know, save a save.
Toliy:I want to keep the entry.
Katherine:You know, yeah, the hype. He's been making these t-shirts for like a long time.
Eldar:We interpret the world. I Remember there was. I catch arrogant weasels on there on Dennis rocks. I Catch arrogant weasels on Dennis rocks, I like the like weasels, weasels.
Phillip:You know, I remember.
Eldar:I think pay attention, or I'll be the I told you so guy. I Remember totally had one and it was really sadness. Is a tired, angry person? Totally squoat. Get humble to get fucked again? Totally squoat. There's a very high chance that you're a dumb ass, totally squoat. Everything you're doing in life is a joke. Phillips quote Houston's is my temple. Phillips, yeah, I like it. The elderism owns all. Go shopping. Go shopping hungry. I'll explain later. Elder Disappointment is an uneducated man's attempt of self-control.
Phillip:Oh, yeah, that's nice. So that's nice I.
Eldar:Can quarter back your life to ensure the desired results. Toast it to save it. Tea about bad bread on sandwiches. People people don't yell at the library. Totally. This is great. Mud is muddy. Elder I'm a closet thinker elder to totally. Art is that? That's Tom. The point of wanting things is to remove confusion, totally wait, what was the bread one again. To save it, you got a toast.
Toliy:Yeah, I think we were talking about like If bed is really shitty and you could toast it, and it'll say doctors prescription more suffering, mike.
Eldar:More suffering I want to disappoint his anti-love Mike. Okay, you know I Transfer digital panic a totally Parents petal of motion tea. I might be grooming you, elder.
Phillip:Can I put totally space as the shape of the toast? I definitely want the toast one.
Eldar:Where we had it. Nobody ever been elder to Mike I, dennis rocks, we uncover the conditions in attempt to free you elder. I mean, we have a lot of shit. Yeah, I can you know, and they all relevant to the conversations, obviously. And today's arrogance is a big one. I mean, look, can we, can we eradicate arrogance? If we are not, if we remove ourselves mentally from social acceptance or Insecurities and also insecurities are all what socially dependent, no, or not.
Eldar:Like, right, like if you close the fucking turn off the lights, right, and that show there's a very good show. I mean, catherine likes to watch. Like to watch. It's called love is blind, right, and what they do is they pair up couples right Behind walls, like a wall behind all. Like you can't see the couple. All you can do is you hear what they say, right, and people actually fall in love. We watch this together. Yes, when people actually fall in love. Yeah, based on what they say, because what we say is actually the representative what we are. You know what I mean, not the looks and all this other crap, you know so you say you go behind closed doors.
Phillip:There's no ability for anybody to.
Mike:So is the Anamana and that actually happens. What you're talking about in the show. It's a phenomenon, so entering judgment happens.
Phillip:So the ability to be criticized or judged is the seed of arrogance, but if you're on your own, you can still be ignorant. Which is okay which I think.
Eldar:I think being ignorant is very okay. It's an okay phenomenon. It's okay to be ignorant. It hurts more to be arrogant.
Toliy:Which is still okay to be arrogant. Ignorance is probably just the reality of like a living human being.
Phillip:Yeah right like 100% the human condition. Yes, so it's ignorance inevitable, yeah, you have a perfect life, then, without to live without ignorance. Right, you'd have to have a perfect thought process.
Eldar:I think that it ignorance is the key to Knowing, which is the key to happiness, and I think that is the equation that makes us happy. You know what I'm saying. So ignorance plays a very important role in our development.
Phillip:So it's almost like a, like a. What's it called? When you play bowling and then they have the gutters? Yeah, what is it called? The the? Assist Whatever those are like to me, ignorance is that of like you're basically doing something wrong. You're almost ready to do something and go over to arrogance, but in that moment you can recognize right, like okay, I have the ability to realize that I might not be doing right in this moment and I can go back on the right path. Yeah, right, yeah yeah.
Toliy:Yeah, like, like, like now that I'm thinking about it, I remember like a few days ago, like great. For example, right now my leg is definitely feeling better. Yeah, right, god, I can definitely put some weight on it, but definitely not all of it. But I remember when you made that statement you're like yo, by Saturday you'll be like pretty much walking and like I remember I was definitely arguing, I'm like no chance, like what are you saying?
Toliy:Yeah, you know I mean if they turns out the opposite way, obviously it's a good thing happening of course for me, but I remember again having the Authority to think that there's no way that you're right about this.
Eldar:Yeah, yeah, you know yeah, yeah, I think, I mean obviously. I think that the antidote to arrogance and happy life is to keep an open mind right, an open mind for the opportunities, to For life to turn out in such a way where it surprises us. Be open to surprises.
Toliy:Well, well, I think also that it has to do, I think, with the realization that life is, is, is, is a, is meaningful. Why is?
Eldar:that. Why do you bring the word meaningful into it?
Toliy:Well, I think a lot of good things that happen to people. When people become more inquisitive, when people act in those different ways, I think that they do have realizations that life like it actually is purposeful, like it is meaningful, oh, okay.
Eldar:So it's almost like there's a cause and effect and there's meaning behind it.
Toliy:Yeah, yeah, I know that you like my, like Hercules, or like my yeah, yeah, yes, I got to watch that movie once and for all. I mean it's got references, but I started watching it and I've been falling asleep to it ever since.
Eldar:Which movie Hercules? Which one?
Phillip:When they start dancing and like singing and stuff that just puts me to sleep.
Eldar:Oh man, but I started it. Yeah, just watching it.
Toliy:So I think it was in the. There's also a bunch of Hercules's that are like kind of like it's like a real portrayal of the movie, like it's not like a cartoon. Oh okay, they have ones with like the rock, I think, with like some other guy or whoever, with like Perseus or whatever his name is right, and I remember I forget in which one it was right, but there's a reference to that. People want to be gods, they want to like live forever.
Eldar:In the corners of the yeah okay.
Toliy:Right, forever. And then there was a conversation and like that's the general consensus of people, like in that area, and there was a guy trying to like seek information about them, like that was the biggest goal and like everything. And I remember in the movie there was a moment where that person got to speak to a god and the god is like what are you saying? He goes that like, he said that Really, because in general, people are like envious of the gods. You okay, because, like, for example, in Hercules, if you're a god, you live on Mount Olympus, you live in the Sic area, you exist forever. You got those girls feeding you grapes. Yeah, yeah, right, like in general.
Toliy:And then that guy in the movie he gets an opportunity to speak to like a god and the god is like what are you saying? He goes, gods are actually envious of people Because being mortal creates meaningful Existing. He goes I just exist forever in time and yeah, wow, I don't have anything ever. Nothing is meaningful because, like, I'm just gonna live forever, for example. And he goes the fact that humans are they call it, like in those times like mortals. Right, he goes, gods are actually envious of mortals because there's actually meaning to their life and there's no meaning in ours, that is.
Eldar:Okay, fine, I have an argument for them, but Wow, wow, that's interesting.
Toliy:Yeah. So that guy was like trying to get to a point again where he lives forever and like that. But because, like, when we realize like we all have consequences, like we all have meaning, like there's importance or different things, so all the different small things again big things, right, the realization of that, I think like gives you more open-mindedness. It creates a scenario where you do ask a lot more questions because there is. You get that realization that there is meaning to your life. But in that example he's bringing up that guy just this point. He's like no, we're actually envious of you guys. Yeah, you could die tomorrow.
Phillip:So what do you think about death? A lot more.
Eldar:I think it's time for us to have a topic on death. Yeah.
Phillip:Do? I totally know. Yeah, that would be excellent.
Oleg:You have to. Are you guys hitting the fourth floor?
Phillip:The upper room. Yeah, wow, yeah, let's talk about death. No, no, no. He wants to go to sleep tonight.
Eldar:You know what I'm saying? You gotta do it during the day Wow.
Phillip:No lights on this episode.
Mike:Yeah, that's definitely a big time. No lights on, no lights on no lights on Everybody has to keep their eyes closed.
Phillip:And.
Eldar:James have to be here next Friday.
Phillip:So we have to re. Oh my God, what are those rooms? No, what are those rooms. What are those rooms?
Eldar:No.
Speaker 4:I have to have Tommy here. Tommy has to talk, yeah.
Phillip:So that's the only way I'm going to get comfort. So those escape rooms we're going to recreate that we're like you have to literally walk through and you have to like you don't know where you're at, you can't see anything.
Eldar:Oh my God, you just have to talk yes.
Mike:It's going to be completely dark in here.
Eldar:It's like holy shit Next Friday.
Phillip:Totally would like this or no.
Eldar:No, listen, it's a very important, I think, an interesting topic.
Phillip:You think death strips all your insecurities away, if you truly understand what death is in that moment. See, I'm not sure if you need to understand all death in order to strip yourself from insecurity.
Mike:No, you don't need to fear death in order to live life.
Phillip:The simpleness of knowing that you are going to be gone.
Eldar:See, the thing is like for some reason I don't know why Society deems death as being a bad thing. You know what I mean. As I age and I'm going to tell you right now as I start feeling my body, I quickly understand that, look, I used to be a certain type of way on a basketball court and all this other stuff and recovery and everything else. Things are changing now as I get older and things will change as I get very old. I think I will get to a point where I finally going to say it's time to rest and I think I'm going to look forward to dying. And that's the way at least I want to go, where I look forward to dying versus I dream of dying. I look forward to dying versus I dreaded or I'm scared of it. You know what I'm saying? Because I want to rest.
Phillip:I think, built in with what you're saying is living a true full life. I think if you have an unfulfilled life, you're going to be kind of like scratching and clawing. But, let's just say I'm talking about the understanding, the concept of death.
Phillip:I think to the person let's say the opposite example. Let's say you're the example of somebody who's living a full life, the other person that's not. I think the understanding of death, whatever to me, would be holding you back. Yeah, could be open and there's a realization of like, hey, you know what? Like, why am I opening myself up or concerning myself with criticism and judgment and letting it cripple me when one day I'm not going to be here? Yeah, yeah, I'm saying it can open up that passage to put you on that path to understand really what is happening. And it's always example that God is envious of the human because he has the ability to die one day. Yeah, yeah.
Eldar:Well, I think the way they portrayed it, at least in the movie and I think it's a little lazy is that the motivating factor of doing the right thing here now is because you can die. You know what I mean, and I don't think that should be the motivating factor.
Toliy:Well, no, it wasn't that you can die, it's that your life has meaning to it.
Eldar:But that's the problem. I have a problem with that.
Phillip:But you're saying that meaning is attached to death, when you're probably attached to more love, right and like an action that's going to create something. Death doesn't really create anything.
Eldar:They are portraying death as being a still bad thing a little bit.
Toliy:Yeah, yeah, okay.
Eldar:Yeah, but yeah, that's a good topic. I think, yeah, it is a great topic. I think I think we're mature enough to be able to talk about it too, like I mean, at least the podcast is. You know what I mean, because I think a lot of times we make assumptions around death. That is not productive. You know what I'm saying.
Katherine:Because it's unknown, so it's scary.
Eldar:There you go. Yeah, there you go. That's why I'm not willing, I'm not okay with trading, being humbled today for being humbled in the unknown. I'm not. I don't want to be the uni bomber. That's why I'm not committing fucking suicide over here and being a radical Muslim, for example, killing myself to get 72 virgins. You know what I mean. I'm not doing that, you know.
Katherine:I think it's going to be a great topic.
Eldar:I actually, I actually, I actually wholeheartedly think that we're, we can live out hell on earth and heaven on earth right here, right now, in our minds.
Phillip:Is anybody truly 172 virgins like right now, Like, is that like?
Eldar:I mean, I guess it's an appealing fucking thing, right, Oleg? I'm sorry.
Mike:Like 72 is like an absurd amount you couldn't handle 72, Oleg.
Oleg:Like no, but it's not something like I ever thought about, or wonder.
Mike:But it's not a bad idea now that you think about it, saying, but in one sitting.
Katherine:That's an absurd amount, like why is five not not like? No, like I'm not.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's crazy, you wouldn't say no, I can't handle one good wife.
Eldar:You know what I'm saying and my bedroom.
Oleg:Sometimes, you know, that was like a mirror, like a long time ago, you know, there was maybe like hundreds, thousands of years ago.
Mike:That was the idea of, like you know, have like they knew that people are really dumb and it's easy to trick.
Oleg:I'm just saying, bro, they didn't have a lot of things, so to them the 72 versions.
Phillip:that's like I'll do that thing, but I like ice cream. If you offer me 72 scoops of ice cream, I'd be like yo. This is ridiculous.
Eldar:Yeah this is good. Are you kidding me? Yeah, where's the bomb? Who do I have to blow up? Give me three to five maximum.
Phillip:I think one scoop would be the happiest One, Neapolitan.
Toliy:Just like a, you know, try effect 72 and Virgin.
Eldar:So like you're saying like.
Mike:I'm getting like ice cream with Nutella like on top of a Belgian waffle, on top of a baklava. Yeah, what are we saying here?
Eldar:72 is ridiculous Totally. So do we help you with arrogance or not? Because clearly it's a crippling topic If he says no. If he says no, is it arrogant.
Toliy:Well, I think a good question is like Do you not think that?
Eldar:taking a very specific stance about that. Arrogance is very dependent on social dynamics.
Mike:So arrogance is approval seeking. Once you stop seeking approval, you can be freed of arrogance. That's what.
Eldar:I think there's a possibility. I'm just blubbering it out there. I'm thinking about it, so what's?
Phillip:about the crossroads of like being genuinely curious and involve somebody else, right, but then, like the status seeking, you need somebody else also. So, like there's. That's like the mental shift, right, because the genuine curiosity is throwing off whatever your idea of who you are, whatever question that you have off of somebody else. If you're genuinely curious, you have to talk to yourself in front of the mirror and try to come up with the same Like. You can't heal yourself. Yeah, yeah. So the genuine curiosity still involves another person. You still have to have that same person. Yeah, right, it's the mindset shift of I'm being genuinely curious and there's somebody else involved. Yeah, like, in order to cure whatever you have in that area.
Eldar:It's also dynamic.
Phillip:Yeah, the other person is still there, so social dynamic could be the element that healed you also. Yeah, the other person is going to be the one that's going to point out whatever flaw.
Eldar:Here's the thing. I think that if you become curious, genuinely curious, you have the ability to not only transform yourself, your own life, but you can transform the teacher's approach to you. Okay, okay. So I think it unlocks both ends of the spectrum, so you can benefit on both sides. So is it validating the teacher? You know what I'm going to say it here now Genuine curiosity is the fucking teacher.
Phillip:Yeah.
Eldar:Think about it, it's a paradoxical fucking phenomenon.
Phillip:So is the other person really have that much of an influence? Then in that example, like if I'm genuinely curious to you.
Eldar:No, no, you're asking a very crazy question.
Phillip:Because if you're saying that genuine curiosity is the answer, it's like inside of me I already know, so you just the great teacher no, the great teacher is pointing me back within myself to empower myself, correct?
Mike:Yeah, that's it. Yeah, the answers are always within.
Eldar:And that is it that he just described that fucking phenomenon. That's what my therapist says. I'm not sure if she really knows what she says when she says that.
Katherine:She says the tools are within you.
Eldar:They definitely are.
Katherine:That's because I think by default that everything that's installed and every human being here needs to be properly guided sometimes you know, out of itself Almost the times. I said the tools are there. It's there, but it needs to be guided properly. Yeah, otherwise it needs to be like kick started, otherwise it's just dormant.
Toliy:Yeah, but it's also like a, not like a. It's like the equivalent is like a buzzword, like it's a buzz line. Yeah, yeah, it is a buzz line. Yeah, oh, for sure, everything is within you.
Katherine:I think there are a lot of buzz lines out there. What we just said.
Eldar:The way Philip just described it is actually the definition of what I think people actually want to say, when they mean it. You know what I mean, but they don't have the ability yet to say what they actually mean.
Katherine:I don't have the capacity.
Phillip:You just said it. Oh no, no, I know, I'm just being introverted. Yeah, yeah, okay Fine.
Toliy:Yeah, so how do you think that we prevent arrogance?
Eldar:Come to the podcast. Oh, I mean, that's definitely Pen. Pen is fucking. You have to appreciate this fucking shit, right, but do you?
Phillip:think that you have to go through arrogance to be humble, or can you just automatically be humble?
Eldar:Yeah, I'm not sure if you need to be humble if you're arrogant. I mean, if you're not arrogant, there's no such thing. Humbling only exists if you're arrogant.
Phillip:But do you think that there's anybody that exists that has ever not been arrogant?
Eldar:See, I'm not sure if that's a built-in and into human condition. Yet Something tells me that it is. Yeah, and Buddha, I believe, said that it is because he meditated that the reason why we have all the shit is because of desire, and desire is the culprit of our suffering. Yeah, and I think that desire somehow has built in this arrogance thing in it as well, I guess desire is thinking we know what we need.
Mike:Yes, correct, so yeah.
Eldar:So if it's that, then yes, he's correct about that. That's correct. You know what I mean. Therefore, he's trying to say look, remove all the desire, because there's no wants, because there's no, wants, there's no attachments, there's no suffering.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah To arrogance, but it's a very, very important thing.
Phillip:It's a very fucking hard thing to do, so if you are somebody who wants, you are essentially going outside of yourself and there's going to be a great chance that you are probably going to be open up to some kind of judgment or criticism, and the arrogance is almost inevitable to come from something who are you to make a statement of?
Eldar:I want this based on what?
Phillip:Because you're almost saying in that statement is whatever I have within me. I have overlooked and I basically have not valued whatever is inside of me and now I'm going outside of myself to have to go to the store to buy that thing in order to try to get that thing. That is already inside of me. So all the you're an idiot. All the path of wanting anything is to always come back to you. Yes, how fast you have the magic. Yeah, yeah. How fast is it going to take you to come back to yourself?
Eldar:That's right how many houses you have to buy. This is why, when you work here, what?
Phillip:do? I say you have all the tools that you need to be successful.
Eldar:Oh, can we?
Phillip:write that one down, whoa.
Eldar:No, but that's like very pertain to a very specific thing, yeah, but no, no, my goal is to almost like it's, not to mimic. I mean, jim Carrey, you know, said it, but he's right, but he's wise, he's right about what he said.
Phillip:He said don't go in there.
Eldar:He said listen get as much as you want, get as fast as possible. Oh yeah, that was good. So you can understand that that's not the answer.
Katherine:Yeah, he said. I wish everybody was rich so that they would know as soon as possible. Yeah, that's not the. That's not the answer.
Eldar:That's not the answer to happiness Because what he realized that finally he's had it all under the impression that this is what he needed, and he finally pointed the finger at himself and said I'm the fucking problem.
Phillip:But yeah, but think about where he came from. So my understanding of his story is that. He's a fucking sinner bro. Yeah, but think about where he came from. So he came from, like a blue collar, like humble, like humble, like quote, unquote beginning. That's what you think, let's call it a let's just call it a blue collar beginning.
Toliy:Right.
Phillip:So, because that's the true element. So he wrote himself a check and he wanted to come out of like this type of life that he didn't think was serving him Correct. So now he created this kind of persona to then taken all these outside opinions that built him up and he realized that he built himself up into this thing that he couldn't take on anymore, that's right. And he became this like depressed guy and then he developed he became a recluse after that he called depression.
Toliy:So what do you say? That you like the story here in this class? There's a movie element in my life? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you do like stories, yeah, yeah when they're low movie, yeah, okay.
Phillip:Yeah, so yeah, then he talked about depression being like the deep rest, right, right, like the character that you create, that you cannot take anymore Anymore.
Eldar:Anymore, he did not want to be. He needs to go into that deep rest in order to recover.
Phillip:Yeah, and when he came out of that deep rest, he came to the conclusion that he still likes R, he still looks painting and all this stuff, but he's doing it from a perspective of it's more about the craft instead of. I need this outside opinion and I need this award in order to valimate my existence. Yeah, that's right, because then you're putting the External, yeah, you're putting your confidence in the hands of somebody else and it becomes, I guess, very apparent of you're up and down and you are depressed and you are anxious. It makes sense because you're waiting for the other person to validate you and it has nothing to do with your gauge on yourself. That's right, right, yeah, so you basically gave it up 100% your ability.
Eldar:You lost all the power that you're supposed to have inside internally. Right. Which you already do. Right, you know what I mean, see ya. But that points us to what Our arrogance. Arrogance is, what's actually holding us away, or maybe it's. Can arrogance then be coined as an indicator? Totally, that again, that we're doing it wrong.
Phillip:Doing this life in general.
Toliy:No, I mean again like. To me, arrogance is like one of the worst possible scenarios that like can be playing out.
Eldar:So it's already almost like a punishment. You're saying.
Mike:It's not only you're wrong about the truth, but you're also defending the truth, which is a double fuck.
Toliy:You're so bad Like, it's so bad.
Phillip:Wait, wait. But if everybody is inevitable to have, arrogance, isn't arrogance then, like the start of understanding, humble, being truly humble Again. Can't there be something built in it that? Why are we on our level, is the question. We can't answer that because we don't build ourselves.
Eldar:That's the issue. Yeah, we don't know where we're coming from.
Phillip:Why do you?
Toliy:need to touch the fire to know it's hot.
Phillip:Yeah, like is it? If we're basically saying that everybody has a different story but at the end of the day, if everybody has to deal with arrogance, everybody has a pure start, arrogant, and then they can have the ability to come to humble. If we all have that type of like journey and trajectory, that's how we're built and that's how you get to that point. So what if arrogance is inevitable shouldn't? Then we have teachers then being able to embrace the arrogance and then just trying to point us back into ourselves where arrogance can be this thing. But if it is inevitable and it's a part of our journey, right, and everybody needs to, but why wouldn't it have to be?
Eldar:That's the thing. Why do we have to go through this journey?
Phillip:Well, if you didn't have like a bad, how would you have good? It's almost like if you didn't have arrogance, how would you have confidence?
Oleg:Yeah, but the contrast is very serious.
Eldar:Right, it's a black and white. Why can't we have gray and beige?
Phillip:Can you have gray and beige? I think you can build within it.
Eldar:You know what I'm saying Slowly.
Phillip:You can have conversations, but as you're going, there might be different notches.
Eldar:Think about it. Think about it. We just had an example of the unibomber right, who didn't have a privilege right in order to be arrogant enough to be humbled Like he didn't even have that.
Phillip:But we do agree that he is a crazy arrogant Well probably.
Eldar:Yeah, probably, and that's why he didn't even have the opportunity to even be humbled. So like that's wild, you know what I mean. That's a level right there.
Phillip:Well, no, no, no. I think we came to the conclusion that there's always opportunities to be humbled, but he chose to not.
Eldar:Well, I'm not sure if he chose, I'm not sure if he had the choice in the matter, but yeah, I think he was probably too ignorant to make any kind of choice, but don't you think the human has the ability to choose at any point? No, I'm not sure. No, not some. I'm not sure about that, yeah.
Toliy:But in any scenario where you actually are in a moment where you have the ability to choose and you're conscious about it, you're always going to do right, yeah, yeah, like. If I'm like Philip, do you really want to like? If I just like, played it out to you in the most black and white and got you to a point where, like, you're present, you understand, you give anyone any kind of scenario right, they're always going to go with the right answer. Right.
Toliy:Say that again, like if you can get someone to a point where they're thinking right, they're going to. I think always make the right answer. They're going to choose right and they actually have the ability to choose.
Eldar:What he's talking about is what Sakuridhi said, is that no one knowingly does wrong.
Phillip:But I have to then trust that that person knows what is right and wrong. Sure.
Toliy:No, no, not even that you need to give yourself the ability to know that you're thinking and that you're reasoning through the equation this is going to do with the person that has everything to do with you acknowledging a moment where you're actually thinking, which lots of times we make decisions without doing that.
Phillip:But I think thinking is one thing and then also having the ability to realize what type of thought am I having. Is it one that's?
Toliy:serving me or not? Well, yeah, but I don't think in those moments that you're actually thinking.
Phillip:My example goes to the person who's like the person, who's doing wrong, who's also trying to cure themselves at the same time. Where does that line draw of that person then being able, I guess, to surrender, right and then go outside for help? And again the help is trying to redirect. But what needs to be instilled in that person for them to realize that they don't have the answers and their thinking is not enabling them to come to the right conclusions, is that where the humbleness is built in that so it's humbling the answer to rid yourself of all the bad thoughts that have lead you to all these bad decisions.
Eldar:Yeah, To some level it's almost like built in curiosity or humility that's inside of you. It's like driving your questioning and inquiry.
Phillip:Yeah, because I have to basically be saying if I'm making all these wrong decisions, the toys point, if I'm thinking and I do start to think, okay, but what's then giving me the ability, just because now I'm thinking, to then say like, oh, now I'm on the right path to do the right thing? How do I, the person who's been doing wrong and has been arrogant all this time, just because I'm now thinking, wouldn't I have a probably be more prone to have the wrong thought or to have a thought that's going to lead me back into arrogance? Yeah, I would need to then be pointed and guided into a different direction and trust that that person is coming from a place that's truly trying to put me back on that path.
Eldar:Sure, but I guess that teacher, if you instill trust in them, has to have your best interest at heart as well.
Phillip:And you have to trust in that. So that person, what's the likelihood of that arrogant person trusting that other person to put them back on that path? And very, very unlikely, I say it's a crazy, unlikely scenario.
Eldar:Yeah, the only way. I mean I guess the arrogant lens is such that that individual has to be so competent in those areas and show you like he's the shit and you really want that, like, that's almost like the hook right to get your attention.
Phillip:Yeah, the way that I see this played out is over time. This is not a momentary thing.
Eldar:For some, yeah, and of course, of course, for some, yeah, it has to be a long term thing. Because I mean again, we talked about this I think, like you said here, like I might not be a fat person anymore, but I still think fat, right. And why is that? There's steps to it? No, not that there's steps to it, it's habitual. Now, right, he's been a fat person for a very long time, having very specific habits. That's built into his lifestyle as acting fat. You know what I mean. So just because you lost this, you got a hundred pounds of three months, let's just say or over surgery. Does that mean that you still don't have those same habits? Mentally? You still have those same habits, you still associate yourself as a fat person.
Mike:I think that's a big part of it. But, as I'm understanding it more, if you did it in a way that doesn't line up with the truth, you're going to stay stuck in that mentality. So if you went about it arrogantly, right, you lost weight because you went to the gym. You didn't eat properly. Because you think the automatic phenomenon 100%.
Phillip:Well, what goes to my head is that you can't be rewarded by using a treat. You can have that example, right Like, let's say like Ozympics really popular right now. Right, what is this? Ozympics, a drug that you take to suppress your appetite and you can lose like 50 pounds in like a very short amount of time.
Oleg:Okay let's say so Ozympics, you want this. You want this no, you're saying it's like You're looking at my boy, it gives you stomach paralysis. Yeah, it's for diabetics Stomach paralysis.
Eldar:It's for diabetics. It's for diabetics.
Phillip:So that's an example.
Toliy:My celebrity's using it.
Phillip:But you can say an example of somebody that's going to make money, right?
Phillip:You can rip somebody off, like the Wolf of Wall Street, right, and all make money, or you can then have another person at a different trajectory that you know works hard and does it the right way. Yeah, I think the person that ends up doing it in the false sense. You're getting to that point, right. And like what? What person is that? And how do you define that person versus the other? And like, what's the likelihood of that person breaking their habits in the ripping off of the ozympic, when they're not really solving the problem? And the problem is, like you're saying, the habits that you've built up over time. Ozympic is only curing the result and once you take that drug away, it's proven that you go back to that point and even bigger. Yeah, and when you rip somebody off, to me what are we talking about?
Eldar:We're talking about you've created a physical product to try to treat a psychological phenomenon. It's a trick. It's a trick. No, no, no, no, it's not even a trick, bro, it's a snake oil. No, you're tricking yourself in the public. Yeah, it's a snake, it's a snake oil, it is.
Phillip:But you're tricking the public, right? You're creating a false sense of who you are arrogant right. Yes, and you're doing it to yourself, yeah, okay, ignorant and arrogance all that.
Eldar:So imagine, imagine, how bad your karma is, that you have to, you have to go through this process.
Phillip:To do this, yeah. And when you have to go to that point to do that, that's the Mike Tyson example, oh yeah, of having to be this guy who's presented a certain way I'm going to eat your children and do all this stuff, yeah and then have to go on that. The path that he's on now makes sense to try to make up for what he did. That's right, yeah, right.
Oleg:Yeah, but think about this One example if you have a dirty fish tank, do you drug the fish or do you clean the fish tank, in example, with an ozampic or whatever you were talking about? Yeah, do you drug the fish, do you even inside a dirty fish tank, or do you clean the fish tank?
Phillip:What's the? Most logical thing to do Ozampic is drugging the fish.
Oleg:Yeah, but the truth that you're supposed to be cleaning the fish tank.
Phillip:Right, so that example.
Eldar:Which takes longer. That example is yeah, it takes more time.
Phillip:Yeah, that example is in this going after your habits and realizing that your habits have built up over time. But how humble do you have to be to say, oh, 30 years of my life I've been doing the wrong thing and building the wrong habits.
Eldar:I'm ready to change yeah.
Phillip:How humbled do you have to be to do?
Oleg:this oh well not humble, it's just you gotta have to get fucked. Elder, but is being humble admitting you were wrong? Is that the that's?
Speaker 4:part of the process that's taking responsibility for that's being humbled.
Mike:That's part of the process. Humble, humbled, yeah. It's finally taking accountability for the choices made and actions.
Eldar:It's okay. And, in turn, I think being humbled is being, is becoming transformed as a human. It's a transformation that happens from being a very specific way to then taking those thoughts and those understandings and saying you know what? I'm not really sure I need to change the trajectory of it. And that's being humbled and that's changing yourself as a human being fundamentally, which is, I think, happens in our brain. Let's just say I think it.
Phillip:I think transformation and thinking about like what happens over time. There's kind of a magic in that and if you actually think about that, it's not like over time, like I'm talking like maybe five, 10, 15, 20 years, like looking back at, like who you were and like who you are now. Like looking back at that, like to me like there is a magic.
Eldar:It is magic. Yeah, it's almost magical, it's magical for sure. Yeah, mike, what do you think about this arrogance thing, man, did we solve it, do we?
Mike:fucking understand it. You know, one question that we've been talking about, that's kind of been repeating this thing you guys asked and I didn't know the answer to it. I was just curious, like I guess there's a lot of these situations where these things are paradoxical, right, where, like the bad side let's call it the bad side and then the negative side, like the arrogance, exists in a social setting. Right, for example, you guys say you're saying because the lack of humility is dependent, is dependent, right, social setting. So would it exist? The question is, would a lot of these things exist If not for some kind of lack that we have in the way that I don't know, I don't even know what to say like the way the world is or the way that we're designed.
Eldar:I think the way we bounce off of one another.
Phillip:No, no, no, it's how we were talking about the design of the human life.
Mike:Yeah, but see, I can't believe that we were designed in such a way that we're designed already, like in a way that's flawed from the jump, you know like that we're designed, but then that would be saying that you're born.
Eldar:No we interpreted this shit in the wrong way, then you're basically saying when you're born, you're wrong.
Phillip:I think like my idea of a baby being evil or something.
Mike:I don't think that's the issue that I'm having.
Phillip:So yeah, so I think. Then there is the societal building, or blocks, or whatever you want to call it, and that judgment and criticism. Once like that criticism opens up, you're opening yourself up to like society and then like that self. However you became into existence, that's gone. So I don't think existence has anything to do with what you're talking about. It's the outside forces that are creating you to come out of your like natural self or like the self that was created from a let's call it a perfect plan, because if you think that life is like built from an imperfect place, then I think it's probably hard to believe in love and like all the good truths about life. Right.
Mike:Yeah, I don't believe that, that we are created like out of a bad place? No, I don't.
Mike:Because then that's why it's hard for me to understand how do we end up here? Yeah, that's my question Like, how do we end up like this If we if I mean I believe that that we are created right? Maybe part of the struggle, like you know at least Buddhism, I think, says that part of the path to, you know, enlightenment is through suffering, right? So I think maybe it's like do you how bad? Do you actually want to live a good life? You kind of have to prove maybe I don't know to who, but to yourself at least that you actually want to live a good life or right life, you know, versus how much you're just going to like say you know what, I give up, I fold up, I'm going to keep being ignorant and arrogant as hope.
Toliy:Nobody says that. Nobody says that you get humbled or you get folk.
Phillip:Well, you probably, that person probably didn't suffer enough. I don't think that person exists.
Eldar:Yeah, that says this to themselves.
Mike:But yeah, so what are your final thoughts? I don't know, okay.
Eldar:That's all like that Maybe.
Katherine:I thought it was a great topic.
Eldar:And how does it help you? How about that?
Katherine:Um, I guess it raises awareness, maybe, uh, to what Push myself to stay curious and stay out of the the line of arrogance.
Eldar:The line of making conclusions yeah, okay.
Katherine:Yeah. And I think I really don't know, but I can. I can especially like looking at how I've been in the past of being a person, of knowing of like knowing defining yourself, but I think that I think I can also.
Katherine:I feel like in a sense link that to my anxiety of, of, of. There's a lot of discomfort in the unknown and not having control over things, when, when you're an anxious person. So I think that I um, would kind of place myself in these certain things as in like this gives me comfort. Does that make sense? Like to take a stance on something or whatever, just to give myself that, that comfort. So, um, yeah, I want to keep on learning and keep a curious mind and keep a curious mind and not an arrogant mind.
Toliy:Yeah, but I see, see, I also feel that, like I mean on on on the exact, on on on the anxiety thing that you uh touched upon, I feel like, um, I could be wrong about it, but, like the, the way that I viewed it maybe for a long time, is that like it's like, um, it's a very like unknown, like you know, type of situation, but, um, maybe the way I'm thinking about it now is, I feel like it might be almost the opposite.
Mike:Wait, what'd you say? An anxiety is an unknown type of thing. Yeah, yeah.
Toliy:I feel like, um, when, like a lot of people talk about anxiety, it feels like a very you're anxious because it's an unknown type of scenario.
Eldar:You miss, you miss the fucking episode. You miss that episode Tom has learned a lot he said his whole life changed from that.
Toliy:Yeah, that's why he's been here a whole week and I like I feel like when, like when, when you are anxious, you actually do know. I guess, like you feel that you know almost right, yeah.
Eldar:Anxiety is very closely tied. Now that I think about this whole thing is to arrogance. Yeah, badly.
Katherine:Can I ask which was the episode on arrogance?
Mike:Was it last week? No, no, anxiety was, anxiety was last week and arrogance was this week yeah.
Katherine:I wasn't here for anxiety. Yeah, anxiety was last week.
Eldar:I was here about the time we did anxiety because you got, you didn't allow us to do arrogance last week, so you can't go with either A's oh that's not arrogant.
Katherine:Is it not arrogant to share with everyone? Hey, this is the topic. Come join us. I would have made extra effort to be here.
Mike:Yo, luckily it's on Dennis.
Eldar:Rock Wow. Look at this, listen, it was on the fly, it wasn't really resolved for me.
Mike:It was actually, actually it was.
Oleg:Thanks to Oleg.
Katherine:I lived an anxiety for most of my life.
Toliy:I never thought that we would be able to get through a full podcast episode, and it might be pretty arrogant to think this way without Tom saying a word. But you also wanted Tom to shut the fuck up the whole time right.
Mike:But you also been wanting Tom to shut the fuck up the whole time.
Toliy:He's been yelling. This whole episode been bothering me so much, Even though he hasn't said a word.
Katherine:Tommy has reached Archie level. Yes, where?
Toliy:he's so loud. My favorite thing that Archie does is often and he did it today he's napping how he is. Now he gets up, he's a little flustered and he just looks around the room. He's like right, because he knew he wanted to go jump in the couch. But he first reads the room, kind of like. He looks around and then when he realized no one's really doing anything, he's like all right, he goes in the spot and that's it.
Eldar:No, all right, phillip, what do you think, man, arrogance? What do you think? Maybe I do like?
Phillip:stories. Maybe you do like stories.
Oleg:Final thoughts.
Phillip:So in terms of arrogance, I would say what do I think? I think it is inevitable that everybody is going to reach a point in their lives when they're going to have a sense of arrogance. I don't think that you can live a life of just this purity where you don't have this thing, and that brings you comfort. No, I think you're not alone on the island.
Phillip:No, no, I think what happens is that if you start to look at these things like, let's say, for instance, the way that my brain would go is, let's say, in the future I would start to raise a kid right, instead of if you go through this as a person, like through your adult life and now we're talking about arrogance, we're talking about this not to say you're going to be absolved from it but if you look at it as an inevitable part of your life, I think you can then anticipate it and then not judge it on like pointing the finger and be like, oh my God, this guy is so bad, he's evil. I think if you start to understand that arrogance can be a part of everybody's life and being humble is at the other side of it, there can be just a part of arrogance that you look at as just like another part of life, versus that extra judgment and that extra criticism of where that person's coming from. I think it also says a lot of your understanding of arrogance and what it is. If you're so quick to judge and put that person into a box, I would say your ability to be patient and probably be a good teacher is very, very low. My example would be with you.
Phillip:I think you have a very high threshold of patience and I think your understanding of arrogance and what it is truly is probably giving you the ability to probably have less stress and anxiety when encountering somebody who is arrogant. So I think truly understanding what arrogance is and having that it is going to be inevitable in everybody's life, on part of the human journey there is like a piece that comes along with this type of knowledge. So my understanding, as I'm talking about arrogance today and understanding it, is that it is going to happen. You can choose to be humble with all the opportunities that you're granted, but whether you become humbled or not, I think my observation of somebody who's arrogant is definitely more open-minded and, yeah, I think that is something that I can benefit from.
Toliy:So are you trying to say, in other words, that you can't be angry, if you understand?
Phillip:Yeah, if you don't understand.
Toliy:You're going to be angry.
Phillip:Yeah, your chances of anger versus peace or anger versus patience, when you truly understand arrogance what it is and that if you do believe that it is inevitable in your life, the ability to be angry at that person, to be angry at the idea of arrogance, is going to be very, very low.
Mike:What you're saying. If I'm hearing you correctly, because I've been, and if you're not, this is what you are saying. Every person is exactly what they deserve, to be based on their own accord, and that is comforting as fuck.
Phillip:Well, the word deserve, we say, is interesting right.
Eldar:No See, if you are an inquisitive person and willing to learn and want to, like you know an eager beaver, that should be very scary.
Katherine:What did you just say?
Eldar:If you're an eager beaver and you want to actually learn, if you're inquisitive and you have curiosity right, that state of mind is very dangerous to accept the fact that like, oh, this is part of it.
Mike:No, I'm not saying that you accept it, but like it helps you to take accountability, like, hey, I got myself here, oh, okay, yes, that's what I mean, that's what you mean, that's not the way you heard it.
Eldar:That's not what I heard.
Mike:No, no, I mean. I'm saying that everybody gets to where they are because of the way they are. So a lot of times when you're in a place, you're like yo, why is this happening to me? I didn't do this, I don't deserve this, this arrogant behavior. It's all because we are under the impression that we're cleaner than we actually are. But the suffering that we're going through is because we deserve this. It's not just, but it is extremely just that's what I'm saying, yeah, yeah.
Mike:I don't have like a negative outlook on I think I think to me the way I think about it's more reassuring because then we can finally, if we believe that we can take accountability and say, yo, I'm here because I did this piece of shit, and if I want to not be a piece of shit.
Eldar:I got to change it. What's humbling, and maybe what's more comforting than humbling, is the fact that, by design, there's justice.
Mike:Well, yeah, and that's part of it. That's the thing I like justice Not when it's happening to you. Nobody likes it. Does he like justice totally? What does he got to talk about?
Toliy:Absolutely not. I like it. He likes how about this.
Eldar:How about rainbows and candy canes?
Mike:I'll save you here.
Eldar:Say I like justice when I see injustice.
Phillip:I like justice when I see injustice in Batman movies, yes Is that good when it's applied to others.
Eldar:Yes, yeah, all right, oleg, let's save the best for last, okay.
Oleg:Yes, no, wrap it up, yo Give me arrogance. What do you think about?
Eldar:arrogance. Did we tackle something Absolutely?
Oleg:not, no, no.
Eldar:Okay.
Oleg:I think that was obvious and like there was no clear understanding.
Eldar:I appreciate that. Yeah, thank you, you're welcome For saying absolutely nothing.
Toliy:All right, totally. Final thoughts.
Phillip:Wait, was that the definition of arrogance or no, or was that just his opinion?
Eldar:You would have to get the normal a little bit better.
Phillip:That's it. So Mike would have to answer it, because he knows him a little bit better.
Eldar:Yeah, I'm not sure if Mike actually knows him, because actually Mike just met him.
Mike:This is true. Yeah, I just met him, got it yeah.
Eldar:He's still given him a chance. I think that might be the playing factor of why Oleg is the way he is. I'm sorry, not sorry.
Oleg:Totally Don't believe other people.
Eldar:Don't believe anything here.
Oleg:Believe the only thing.
Mike:Believe half of what you hear and half of what they say.
Oleg:Yeah, don't believe everything here.
Eldar:Totally. I'm going to say my final thoughts and you can run off that I think arrogance is very, very dependent on the social aspect of acceptance. This is what I think. I think that Kili's heel of arrogance is social acceptance. Social acceptance, praise, right Esteem, social esteem, external stuff, right. Being famous yeah, that's one of them. I want to be famous, I want to do this, I want people to recognize me. All this other shit is, yeah, arrogance. I think is very closely tied to those fucking outcomes. It needs them to thrive and needs them to live and all this other stuff. I think, if we look at arrogance in that sense, that if we want to rid ourselves from arrogance, I think that one way we can quiet that down is to become quiet. Only speak when you're spoken to, only teach when asked and listen more than you speak.
Oleg:That's right. We have two ears and one mouth, so you can listen more than you speak.
Eldar:Whoever gave him those little fucking fables?
Phillip:did a really good job.
Eldar:One butthole, Because as much as he understands this, he cannot practice it. So they fucking pulled the trick on him. So next life he's going to have one ear and two mouth.
Oleg:If there is next life.
Eldar:I'm guaranteeing you all that, bro, I reassure you of that. So yeah, those are my final thoughts, but, toli, can you run off that?
Toliy:Yeah, no, I mean, I don't think there's much else to add as far as a closing thing.
Toliy:I feel like I still feel that this topic is still open yeah, the jury is still out, yeah, but just from what you said, one interesting, I think, in general like a topic to have in the future, because, like so every time we have these final thoughts right, obviously, like you know, from from there there's obviously like certain curiosity is like certain, I guess, like you know, thoughts and all this different stuff. But I keep thinking from the fact that, like all of us and then all people pretty much that are listening they're, they're coming from a place already like particular, like assumptions or particular understandings, so it doesn't have to be next week, but I think it'd be good if we had a topic that was on how do we go about like untangling the mess that we made? You know, because lots of times I feel like the application and like the next steps to a lot of these things, like I feel like like the understanding of how to go all about that, I think would be important to cover Okay, how to breaking down your habits.
Toliy:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Like like when you realize something, right like in order for you to realize something, you need to, I guess, also realize or come to a conclusion. I guess, like the case I, like you fucked up in like a way, right Like, going about all of those different things as you realize them, I think will help you in the application of the different topics and and and concepts that we talk about, because it can be overwhelming, like as you learn all of these new things and figuring out ways of like okay, well, what to do next? And I feel like sometimes it's not so plain like black and white as to what to do next, like if you don't have like a grip of like of like untangling the mess that you've already made. You know, like having like an understanding of the.
Eldar:You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, so how tos? Almost yeah, but you know what my question would then counter current questions? You would be. Would you not think that personal examples will be the best way to start? Yeah, okay, we're great, we're in agreement. Yeah, okay.
Toliy:It's recorded.
Mike:Wow.
Eldar:Yeah, what's recorded does not need to be proved. Let's bring. Thank you, guys. This was great, as always, fucking shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.