Dennis Rox
The Perils of Premature Realizations: Exploring Certainty and Arrogance in Learning
Have a question? Ask us and we will discuss it during the next episode.
Ever had that eureka moment, only to find out later it might have been a bit premature? This week, we're peeling back the layers of what it truly means to 'realize' something and the dangers of mistaking these moments for indisputable truths. Our lively debate uncovers how such assuredness can block the path to further learning, stifling personal growth and knowledge acquisition. If you've ever clung to a realization, convinced you've grasped the ultimate fact, prepare to have your notions challenged and perspective broadened.
We also step into the boxing ring of ideas, drawing a fascinating parallel between the confidence of a boxer's pre-fight talk and the potential arrogance that can accompany a so-called realization. Illustrating through the lens of high-stakes sport, we explore how predictions can align with performance, and just when confidence crosses into the realm of arrogance—if it ever does. Tune in for a knockout discussion that promises to leave you questioning the certainty of your own realizations, all while aiming for a more open-minded approach to life's learning experiences.
we on X
Have a question? Ask us and we will discuss it during the next episode.
Ever had that eureka moment, only to find out later it might have been a bit premature? This week, we're peeling back the layers of what it truly means to 'realize' something and the dangers of mistaking these moments for indisputable truths. Our lively debate uncovers how such assuredness can block the path to further learning, stifling personal growth and knowledge acquisition. If you've ever clung to a realization, convinced you've grasped the ultimate fact, prepare to have your notions challenged and perspective broadened.
We also step into the boxing ring of ideas, drawing a fascinating parallel between the confidence of a boxer's pre-fight talk and the potential arrogance that can accompany a so-called realization. Illustrating through the lens of high-stakes sport, we explore how predictions can align with performance, and just when confidence crosses into the realm of arrogance—if it ever does. Tune in for a knockout discussion that promises to leave you questioning the certainty of your own realizations, all while aiming for a more open-minded approach to life's learning experiences.
we on X
On this week's episode, when people say that they realize something, they're saying something that is probably 99% chance like wrong, but they're taking it as fact. They're stopping the process of education or learning.
Phillip:Everybody wants to get a strike and you want to go down the middle. Some people don't have the capacity to do it, but the bumpers allow you to get to that point eventually. Correct To live a true life, you have to take the bumpers off and you have to do it straight, but this will teach you the skills to get there.
Toliy:They're extremely deadly and dangerous. This is deadly what the fuck. And they lead towards a downfall of humanity. Oh my God.
Eldar:Wow, I'm going to have to disagree with all that. All right Toly Realizations, holy shit.
Sergiy:The fulfillment or achievement of something desired or anticipated. What that's, what it means Realization.
Eldar:What kind of Google you're using, bro?
Sergiy:Addictionary expert language. The fulfillment or achievement of something desired or anticipated.
Eldar:Look, yeah, you have to change whatever. Whatever Safari browser you're using, google An act of becoming fully aware of something as a fact.
Tommy:Can I hear Hold on one second.
Sergiy:No, it's clear.
Tommy:Realization.
Mike:What we're wearing the other is the Miriam Web Series.
Tommy:He can spell bro.
Eldar:Yeah, no, he's, yeah, he's spelt like real.
Phillip:The fulfillment or achievement of something desired or anticipated.
Tommy:I think this is not.
Sergiy:I just Google this, I also Google it.
Eldar:No, but what's the word that he's Googling? Realization, are you serious? Yeah, mike, look at mine, give me what are we talking about here?
Mike:Well, you guys use both Google. Oh yeah, you guys did it a little bit differently, I guess. He used the word S. No, he used realizations and you put realization definition, so Realizations Okay yeah, realizations.
Eldar:I see how okay, I see how they define that Okay.
Mike:Yeah, but your thing on the bottom is this thing.
Phillip:Here's things on top, see, oh, okay, oh well, you're Android and he's Apple.
Mike:Yeah, but it's all the same browser, it doesn't matter Using Chrome yeah.
Sergiy:Yeah, I'm using AI generated question, I know.
Eldar:So totally Mm-hmm, an act of becoming fully aware of something as a fact. Right, so become fully aware. So you agree with this definition number one yeah, you do, yeah, okay. So then you have a bone to pick with realizations, because a lot of people have them, you saying Well yeah, I think that it happens very frequently, but not very frequently.
Toliy:Is it like the right type of realization or an actual realization?
Eldar:Okay, but then you're challenging over. The challenge is going to have to be in the definition Right. This says an act of becoming fully aware of something as a fact.
Toliy:Yes, that's what people are saying, that this is what the realization is, mm-hmm.
Eldar:So you're saying that they're just means using the word to describe what they're experiencing?
Toliy:At times, I guess.
Eldar:But overall, what was your problem with the word?
Toliy:Well, it wasn't with the word, it was more with the way that it's being used. When people say that, oh, I realized this, mm-hmm Right. So when they realize it, they're basically yeah, I mean, it's the same thing as the definition. They're taking something and they're saying that this is factual, mm-hmm Right. But what they're doing while saying that at the same time is that they're kind of blocking themselves off from learning more, I guess within that a but what if it's true that it's a fact?
Eldar:What if the realization is actually a?
Mike:realization. It's like the thing you said that we said that we were talking about last week arrogance, right, and confidence. If you're confident and this is the truth, this is what actually happens like, specifically, that fight where they know yet actually where that fight was going to go. He was talking crazy, shit, crazy, but then, because he actually did it, you can't call arrogance anymore. Right, yeah, he was confident that he he executed what he had promised he was going to do in the fashion that he was going to do it. He delivered pretty much everything, right.
Phillip:Mm-hmm, I thought Tully was going to say something different about realizations. I thought it was going to say that how does that person that's saying that this is a fact actually know that it is a fact? And I thought he was going to challenge that person on just saying, hey, I realized this, but what is that person's ability to decipher what is a fact and what is truth and what is not? So I thought that he was going to have a problem with somebody just making an emotional decision and just using the word realization as, like this buzzword, versus actually knowing what it really means. No, we thought that was the right thing.
Mike:We started talking about it a little bit. I think it's when you have a realization, you believe it to be the truth, and then there's certain actions that follow and I think a lot of times the actions there may be, I think, was a little bit premature to actions and you actually haven't tested your realization against the truth. So then, in that moment when you realize something, you get excited, inspired and you want to then do something, Because you realize something that's true now and now. You want to do something about it. You either want to change something or you want to add something, something like that. So something is missing. You realize something is missing.
Mike:Something is missing, or you were doing something wrong, and now you want to do it right. So you realize, OK, that's not the right way to do it. I want to do it this way now.
Toliy:Yeah, well, maybe we can give if someone has a good example, something that they realized and they said that.
Eldar:Tommy, you go through this a lot and I would love for you to give us an example, but I think that by a show of hands we're probably going to find out that we don't want one.
Tommy:How do you know I go through this? Oh, that's specifically a lie. Explain to me how I go through it.
Eldar:Through a lot of realizations.
Mike:Because you're on constant rollercoaster.
Eldar:Ok, true, and I guess you realize it right, and you?
Phillip:go try to actualize shit.
Tommy:You can't hear yours as well so.
Tommy:I might talk about something I realized today. But yeah, I do go through a lot of realizations and I think this has been probably I could say generally a process of exploring, realizing some fact. It might not be like an earthquake kind of a tectonic play movement, it might just be more subtle, much more transitory, but you want to maybe. I think when you're focused on something like I am now, those big ones are the great realizations. Like this now affects everything, and I know that there's something relevant here and it's not just something transitory that I'm just tolerating. I'm not just feeling tolerant, but now I'm feeling like joy Because here's a fact that's telling me, ok, I'm looking in the right place.
Eldar:What's an example?
Sergiy:of this.
Tommy:I mean right now I can't think of one, just probably because I'm a little wiped out from today, but an example of this would just, like I said, it'd be relevant to me, to what I'm doing right now, which is writing a book, and it's about my life. So some things with memory are not really reliable. You dig into it and then you discover something by doing the work and you find maybe you were totally wrong about it. So that kind of realization, the fact of, ok, for example, they were bad to me, for example, like those old friends were bad to me, but then you realize you weren't such an angel yourself. Yeah, you were the bad one. An example, you know.
Toliy:Yeah Well, he realized before that, like he said before, like hey, school is the most important thing for me and I need to go back to school, like I'm sure that was a statement that he made, yes, right, and then he goes. I remember it. So he realized that he went to school for only a little bit and then he stopped, right. So that kind of example happens all the time, where you say that you realize something as a fact, but I guess what's just mainly happening is that you're just misusing the word, but you're not misusing the word in relations to yourself in your own life, but you don't also not understand what it means, what do you mean you misusing that?
Mike:That's what I thought he was.
Phillip:That's what I was trying to say. What he was going to say was he has a problem with people using it just kind of haphazardly, like I'm throwing out, like oh, I had a realization In this example. If he's using the school one, if he's saying I had this realization that something with school is happening, you kind of dip your toe into school and then you don't follow through on it, I don't think you can then truly say you had a realization. If you did have a realization.
Toliy:You can say it Right, it definitely can, but you're just misusing.
Phillip:Yeah, yeah, but it's not the proper way to use it.
Toliy:Yeah, but the biggest issue is not even that you're misusing the word. You're misusing the word while still understanding what the definition actually means. You are thinking that you are actually correct when saying that and you are making the correct realization, but you still are making a realization.
Mike:You could be wrong about what you had realized, but isn't that separate? Well you could have a truth that you believe in. But if you're wrong about the truth doesn't mean that you didn't discover or realize a certain truth.
Toliy:Yeah, but the issue with that is first off, the realization is a factual scenario it says that in the definition yeah, right, yeah, it does it does.
Eldar:Oh really, that you realize something that's fact, A fact for you or for the world, an act of becoming fully aware of something as a fact. We're interpreting a fact as truth, yeah.
Mike:Is it a fact or a truth for you, or generally accepted?
Toliy:truth as a fact, I mean, there's no such thing as a truth.
Sergiy:No, it's a fact. If it's a fact, it's a fact.
Toliy:Yeah, there's no opinionated facts Like it's the fact that this is a don't.
Mike:No, but a lot of times don't we say Not a cat, Don't we say OK, this is the truth, but we could be wrong about the truth.
Toliy:Well, no, we're just misusing the word, but it's not the truth.
Eldar:Realization is an act of becoming completely aware of something. Again, completely aware of something Like give me an example of that Right.
Mike:Yeah, I think it would be very hard to say.
Sergiy:I mean like, yeah, I can say that's the definition I had, that was my definition, but for me it was first, for you it was second.
Phillip:Yeah, yeah, ok. So then what's the problem of being completely aware? Then the action attached to it is then irrelevant. If you just be coming aware, then you can say I can have a realization. And then whether he goes to school or that person takes the action based off of whatever idea they had which was OK, school's very important. He doesn't have to go to school to then make the realization, then make sense based off that definition. What does it mean to be completely aware? Yeah, how is that even possible If you're being completely aware?
Eldar:then you're aware that, hey, if school is the route, you know the pitfalls behind school. If you knew the pitfalls behind school, then you were completely aware. If you were completely aware and decided to go to school, you ought to finish it. If you didn't, that shows that you probably did not have a complete awareness of the situation. Well, that was my original assessment, yeah.
Phillip:But the other definitions seem like it's left out the fact.
Eldar:So here's my question, I'm sorry. If you had a realization, would proper action and a successful action or outcome dictate or then give validity to the realization if everything aligns? Yes, ok, there you go.
Toliy:Yeah, but it's also good. So my issue is that when people say that they realize something, they're saying something that is probably 99% chance wrong, but they're taking it as fact and by doing that, they're stopping the process of education or learning and they're ruling out that if there's any failures within that, for example, or something isn't working out, they rule out the fact that they could have been wrong to begin with.
Eldar:So realization almost speeds up the process of them kind of like OK, I don't need to know anymore, I realize what I need to realize, and now I'm going to act upon that?
Toliy:Yeah, by saying that they realize something, they're basically agreeing to be ignorant moving forward.
Mike:Wow, but in the true definition of the word, is that that's impossible. That's impossible, yeah, yeah.
Toliy:But the way that they're using it.
Toliy:I'm saying that's what's happening, is that they'll say and people say, hey, I realize for me that the most important thing is to make as much money as possible. Right, that's a realization. This is what they're saying. They're fully aware that this is a fact, and then they'll go on and do things and probably be proved wrong through life. That's not the most important thing, for example. Or they could be thinking that going towards it, not getting the happiness that they're looking for and not understanding why because they're going. The very beginning basis stems from that realization.
Eldar:Hold on one second Before we continue that. I have a question about that statement. If the person in the moment says, hey, making money is the most important thing for me and that's their realization, why can't we say that for that moment in time, for the person that that person is, maybe that is a true statement.
Mike:Well, that's the question I was having that is it a fact based on the fact, or is it based a fact to us?
Eldar:Yeah, so I'm introducing a subject in this case, who is now going against that realization? And in this case, I think maybe that person is that person who actually is realizing.
Toliy:This is what the most important thing for them is, like Mike said subjectively, yeah, but they're operating out of the wrong basis but thinking that they are on the right basis.
Sergiy:It says similar words, for that would be awareness and understanding, awareness and understanding.
Mike:So if you add that to that, I think that definition of realization is like almost like an in-line version of it, where Like, if you go one thing, how can? You ever achieve? To have the full grasp of something, to really realize something?
Sergiy:No, but certain things are a fact Like what Certain things are not.
Mike:Like what.
Sergiy:Like to me, this is a dog. To another person, that might not be.
Mike:And in Russian this is a sabaka.
Sergiy:But as a fact, it's a dog, right yeah?
Mike:well, it's definitely the words that we're using, for sure, in the terminology that we use, yes, but somebody could say no, actually it's not a dog.
Sergiy:But you have to prove it's not a dog.
Eldar:Yeah, Well then we have to go by definition, right?
Sergiy:What is a dog?
Eldar:right, it has four legs, it can bark and bite, it can do this and it looks something like this yeah, yeah, I think you'll be able to prove it by DNA, right you would?
Sergiy:see, there is some molecular structure.
Eldar:But it's not going to say DNA. It's not going to say you have a dog, is it also artificial?
Toliy:No, but isn't there a scientific way?
Eldar:to show the cells and their molecules or interpretation. Yeah, there's no scientific way to use a word such as dog or sabaka. You know what I'm saying To describe a thing.
Toliy:Like we made that up to explain that. So a dog is just a word that we've agreed to use to call something?
Eldar:DNA does not have a dog definition in it? I don't think so.
Toliy:No, no, but what is a dog is defined by DNA, right and like scientific things?
Mike:No, no, it's just you could just say like this is a specimen Number one is a dog. No, no, no.
Sergiy:The DNA will say it's a dog. Yes, that's what I'm saying. If you look for blood, if you found some blood and you ran a DNA test, we'll say this belongs to a dog, that's what I'm saying Canine right, Dogs are canine.
Toliy:Right, because they're looking at what Like molecules, whatever cells or whatever, and that's a dog, is just a word that we use to call what this is.
Sergiy:Yeah, that people came up. Yeah, whoever originally was a scientist who sold. The first dog is like I'm going to call this a dog, and everybody else is like, OK, we agree to you. Whoever usually discovers something first?
Mike:is usually called that, but in realizations they're not like dogs, right? They're usually something that we as humans process on our own. Yeah, it's not like. Oh, I just realized that's a dog. No, no, but some. That's not a disputable thing, right, Because everybody agrees on it you usually realize like oh, I was doing this wrong or I was doing this right, right, it's a very personal experience.
Sergiy:There are certain people who are raising a dog. They think it's a dog, and then somebody comes in who knows that he goes. That's not a fucking dog, it's a wolf, it's a wolf.
Phillip:And now you realize things like oh shit, we have to go back to the example of Tommy with school, because that's something that's personal to him, that is very, very hard to prove whether that is the right course of action. It's very, very difficult to say like, oh, I real of Tommy saying I realize that school is the next step for me. It's very, very hard to prove that because we almost have to have time as a factor and we have to have it proven over a period of time and if he doesn't, we'll never know. If we're saying that I realize that that's actually a dog and it's not a cat, if we go to DNA example, we can actually figure it out right now without time having to take its course.
Mike:Yeah, but that's now 100 years ago, before DNA was introduced. I'm not sure if they were able to do it. Yeah, I mean that's Before people were able to create their interpretation of what DNA is and how it works.
Phillip:Sure, that's for the DNA example. But I think we can all agree like, even if, like it was 50 years ago, 80, 100, whatever, we can all be in the woods and be like this is a dog or a wolf, and everybody would be like, yes, this is a wolf, we all agree to call it that word. We don't need time to play out in order to say like, hey, I think my true calling was this. Or I think we should chop this tree down. Until we chop the tree down and we make a fort out of it or make you know, see if it can work to keep us warm, they'd have to take that action. There's nothing to do. If everybody's agreed that that's a dog and you call it a dog, we can all agree that that thing is that.
Eldar:Yeah, as long as we're using this. Yeah, so long as we're using the same measuring stick.
Phillip:I think, this is a dog, so it's very hard to measure something that has a futuristic goal that has not yet taken place, like a thought of an action, of something that you should be doing or you think you should be doing is very different than something that is right now.
Toliy:Yeah, I can object, but I'm saying more in the sense that, like, we have plenty of examples when people say that they realize some something, about the life. Yeah. And then like years later, days later, months later, weeks later, whatever. It is different for all people, right, they were, they were like wrong about it, right, and now what if it was a true realization? Like if it was an actual realization, it would be kind of like undisputable, pretty much forever.
Phillip:Right, yeah, but you need time to prove your example out, and in these examples you need time, like that person, unless that person, well that that action, so that so, so that person needs time, but I don't think that you need time to prove it out.
Toliy:If you know that person very well, you say Well, no, just it's like, if you just like, if, if you're because like they, they are probably often time is making statements out of like a emotion, for example, right, and if you're someone that's looking at the situation in a non emotional way, then then you don't need time to for that to happen, like when Tommy would say that I think everyone else around them when he says that could be. Like Tom, school is definitely not the most important thing for you.
Phillip:Yeah, but you but you know that based off of knowing him. If you asked me and I didn't know him very well, yeah, I would say the same thing.
Toliy:You would say the same thing. Yeah, I would say the same thing.
Phillip:I think it's not I mean, it's not true. Yeah, but it's hard If you just met Tommy and you never spoke to him before. We know, no, no, no, no.
Eldar:You see, the thing is the thing is I think what he's trying to get to correct me if I'm wrong is that, at least in that statement, right of school is the most important thing for me. Yeah, if you were to define certain things about humanity or humans, for example, yeah, we can say that. If we were to agree and say, no, actually happiness is, or family is, or something else is right, and if those are universally true like we're talking about the ruler of a dog right, then we can challenge and say, actually, tommy, that statement is not true, because the most important thing is this You're just not seeing it right now. Whatever judgment you're called, whatever judgment is clouding you right now, is telling you that school is the most important thing. You know what I'm saying?
Eldar:And also based on your personality, and if Tony knows him well enough as well, that just helps the case.
Phillip:Yeah, you would have to assume that everybody has the same value system and everybody is ranking all these things that you're talking about. Like, if somebody does not value family over, say, friendship versus job, we'd all have to come in in this example where everybody's saying, yes, I agree that family's first, and then, like, schooling is like fifth on the list, and then we can all say, hey, tommy, like. I just have to reiterate that you know, school is actually fifth, most important.
Toliy:Well, no, you don't even have to have it, because you can still find something for everybody. That, like you'll be able to find the whole, whole, whole. And like, let's say, the person has no family and no friends, ok, well, like, it is, for example, your health or you being alive more important than, for example, going to school. Like because, you can't go to school without being alive, right Sure, for example, and your health, and therefore it's not the most important thing.
Phillip:But if that person's healthy in that moment and the one thing that's holding them back is their education that they've been putting off, would that not be an appropriate realization in that moment for that person?
Toliy:Well, I mean like they're there, but but, but the way that they're talking about it, like I'm saying more in that, like the way that they're using the words is that they're setting themselves up for just a long period of ignorance. And if they do this on multiple things, right, and they continue to do it because they think that this is a way of communicating or this is a way of understanding things, then they will continue to set up their life in a way where they're constantly not successful. They're constantly not getting what they want. They don't get the opportunity to get to know themselves, they don't get opportunity to know others, they don't they become close minded. They do all these things and this just sets off that kind of effect for all kinds of things out there.
Phillip:It sounds like you're talking about somebody that that needs the skills to properly evaluate what the truth is, and that's what I thought originally. So if you don't have the ability to then decipher, like what is the truth or what what is good for me, then that seems like the, the foundation of it.
Toliy:Well, well, yeah, I'm saying that like, we mean like we can say as someone's ignorant and they just don't know better which which, which I mean again like is true or could be true, right, but it's not unless still a wrong formula for people to live and for people to, I guess, to like, prosper and do well, right. So if you're one of those people that are, for example, listening to this and doing that, then maybe you could get the opportunity to be like, wait, do I do this or do I like, have I done this before or am I living something out where I did do this and I did realize this? Right, like, it's the same thing. How, like, wars start, right, like, yeah, right, like different conflicts, one group of people realize one thing and they think one thing. Another people, a group of people, realize something else.
Toliy:Contradiction, right, but by either party saying those kinds of statements, they put themselves in a position where they take a particular stance, where they are not open or interested in learning like anymore. Because, again, like when you, when, when you make a statement with that word in there, you're basically you're saying that this is fact and that's it, case closed, we're done here, right, so, like that that's what I'm saying is like. Dangerous and bad for people is that when you make those kinds of statements, you set yourself up for failure and you set yourself up to to never be able to learn, and this happens over and over again on like a million different things in your life, but what just ends up happening is that these people will just realize things and nonstop They'll say one thing and then they'll do another thing.
Toliy:And they'll just continue forever realizing things and what they're just like. Instead, they could be saying like, hey, I have. I have a feeling that this might be important for me, but I'm not sure, maybe, and I should explore.
Eldar:So why do these people go through these realizations in the first place?
Toliy:Well, well, because they're, they're probably suffering, you know, and they're trying to find a solution, or they're trying to progress in, like a way, but their idea as to how to progress or how to keep an open mind, or how to actually learn is completely off, and they themselves.
Eldar:So would you say that these premature realizations quote unquote are then a product of their own makeup?
Toliy:Well, they're a product of their understanding of how things work.
Phillip:So what's the difference between a realization and a belief system? Is there a difference?
Mike:To me this whole thing it sounds like this, like just another way to say. It is like people are under the wrong impression Generally and this is just another way of them being under the wrong impression.
Toliy:Well, that's what I'm saying is that they're under the wrong impression.
Toliy:That that's what I was saying before, is that they're under the wrong impression, which is, like to me, like the root of this kind of stuff, and they've either, like, grown to believe that it is OK to do this, right To come, because, like, when you make a realization, you either do like one of two things right, like, you either announce it to one or more people and you tell them this right, or you say it's yourself and when, like, so, when you do this, you set in motion next steps, like, always, right, like, or, or, in some cases, you think it is right, right.
Toliy:So if, like, let's say, you were in Middle Eastern country at the time where, like, the 9-11 stuff happened, and you say that like, hey, like America is bad, Like, if that was your realization that like the, like, the America is evil, right Now you go into the impression your whole life, thinking this, spreading this, teaching this, and you just continue to create a like, a narrative yeah, narrative and like a wave of generations who will follow this realization that you were just wrong to begin with. So then here's the question.
Eldar:If realizations are bad and lately, then what kind of realization can you have that can be beneficial to you?
Toliy:Well, that's what I was saying before. To me, the only thing I can think of, the only valid realization.
Eldar:Inconclusive ones. Yeah, oh sure, wow, well, yeah, no, you can only have a realization that is genuinely good is to be inconclusive of what is happening.
Toliy:And that's what Socrates' realization was.
Eldar:Yes.
Toliy:He realized that he knows nothing.
Eldar:We keep coming back to the same shit.
Mike:Yeah, all the time we keep coming back to the same thing. Wait, so what?
Eldar:It's a circle fucking jerk.
Mike:We're saying the same thing over and over, but it's the same exact thing every time.
Phillip:But what's the difference between a realization and a belief system then?
Eldar:See Socrates, I think. Stay away from certain things like that, like the belief systems or the realization.
Toliy:To me, a belief system is just a makeup of all these fucking…. A makeup of many realizations, yeah, okay that's what I'm saying.
Phillip:So they're very closely related, because the way that we're talking about this.
Eldar:What?
Phillip:I'm thinking of it, I'm saying that person that's realizing that thing and we're talking about okay, wars can happen as a result of these. I'm thinking that it's this realization, that realization and all these realizations that come together. You start to believe this and then you become like your character, and who you actually become is as a result of all these little realizations.
Sergiy:They make up your belief system, so like.
Phillip:The way that I'm interpreting it is that I have these realizations in the way that totally is making it appear is bad, right, and these are causing you to have this kind of delusion about who you are, how the world is. And unless you have a healthy relationship to these realizations, which would be inconclusive, you then close yourself off to being open to criticism and to being open to these things. You're probably very rigid in your thought. You're not going to be having people tell you or point things out. You're going to tell them what it's like because you're so set on what this thing is Once you believe the realization you're dead set on it, and there's no fluidity from that point.
Phillip:That's how I interpret it.
Eldar:And I think that this, my realization of this now, is that this unlocks in the eternity of knowledge, of generational suffering. Oh, no, no, no. Or if you subscribe to Socrates idea of look, let's not make conclusive statements here and let's just be, let's recognize our own ignorance. Here you can unlock eternal bank of learning and knowledge, eternal like forever.
Toliy:Or the opposite way is a generational ignorance.
Eldar:Well, the generational ignorance is pretty fucking cut and dry. So, let me just finish this. What I'm trying to say is that if you take on this or really embody what Socrates embodied, that anytime you go into a conversation, whatever the body of knowledge you're discussing in that moment, if you leave with inconclusive statements, you allow yourself to potentially be open to refuting the truth that you discovered, or being at least open enough in order to discover some more truths, and that is can be internal for you of expansion of your own mind. Yeah.
Eldar:So realization rather than closing like he said, close mine in this causes war.
Phillip:So a true realization should be. I understand that there was something missing, or I'm coming from a place where something is missing. There is something here. Let me go on that path. But as I'm on that path, I'm going to be open to other things, because there might be things to add on or subtract from what is happening.
Eldar:So what that means is I was almost saying that, based on the evidence that is provided here, I can make sound conclusions. However, there are millions, like gazillions of fucking variables that I did not account for.
Toliy:Yeah, yeah, Well, that yeah.
Eldar:And what? What, therefore, I'm going to, I'm going to say this in the most you know.
Phillip:It's clicking.
Toliy:It's clicking now it's clicking what's actually happening, which, which I think is one of the worst things, I think, for people in general. Everyone, for example, all humans have like a brain right and they have a lot of potential.
Sergiy:Yeah.
Toliy:The issue is that when they make these realizations, I think they over time dumb themselves down because they no longer use like a particular part of it.
Eldar:Yes, Like that's what I was going to, so the curiosity dies.
Phillip:Yes, the curiosity is dead. Correct, and you don't need to, I think socrates or whoever yes On that subject, correct.
Toliy:So because you don't need to think about that subject I think you actually over time probably lose like cognitive.
Eldar:Would you then say this is the, this is the cause of death and dying?
Phillip:It leaves the stress Definitely. Well, what stress is?
Eldar:dying, yeah, right, why? Because you're not getting the outcome that you actually want, right? Yeah, you're not open-minded enough because you made a conclusive statement and that conclusive statement is very weighing down in your fucking brain and it's stressful.
Phillip:I would say also at a global scale. If you're going to look at it like with the wars, right, you're closing yourself off to everybody and you're only connecting with a very small group. That's right. So you're automatically from like a connection and like love standpoint, like who you're able to then like be, like feeling you're a part of, like maybe even subconsciously, you don't have access to those people anymore because you're discrediting all those people without ever meeting them.
Eldar:Like you said, america is bad, that means all Americans are bad. Yeah, did he meet us?
Toliy:yet Generalization yeah, like a war, setting, for example, if you have like, radicalized parties on like two different sides, like, if you like. My question is are both parties aware that the other party feels completely different?
Mike:Yeah.
Toliy:And if that's the case, if they do believe, if they are aware of that, why don't they have any thought about being wrong?
Phillip:No, no, they can't believe that the other person they I don't think that they truly allow, because I think in that example there would be some kind of empathy or like understanding. They don't truly understand and they're like why is that other person thinking this?
Eldar:They should be thinking like me, because in order for you to act and then take like violence against another person, you'd have to believe that they're a total idiot and that they don't understand you, I disagree, and that's why I think that the word that generalization you just use is very important, one which connects back to our conversation earlier with Mike that you wanted to talk about generalizing certain things and say, hey, like he posed a question, like hey, what's going on with some of the people?
Eldar:Like, what's going on Right?
Eldar:And sometimes, I guess, for our own sake, maybe for our own processing and not getting stuck in stuff, we like to generalize a lot of the stuff in order to move forward and kind of make sense of the world, right.
Eldar:However, based on what I'm learning from this conversation is that that is the worst thing you can do for yourself, because if you put this generalization upon people and upon situations or your life, you close yourself off of the eternal knowledge base or bank that is out there for us to receive and harvest from if we kept an open mind and didn't generalize. So therefore, I mean at least what I'm concluding from this whole thing is that if you hear for one, if you hear any generalized statements or try to use generalization as a means of explaining yourself, the world reality yourself, in reality, you sell yourself short. So the potential of what you're saying, that our mind has the capability of I mean, at least I said that too of eternal knowledge and seeking, because, at the end of the day, what the fuck are we doing here? Right, like, what's the fucking point of all this? Well, I think the point of all this is to fucking actualize right, or forever actualize.
Phillip:Yeah, I would say, to connect as a group and find some kind of like meaning, love and truth or actualize. Yeah.
Toliy:But also again, when you do those things and you and you don't use your brain anymore, right, you pretty much give the passing. Okay, when it comes to this, it's okay to not think anymore, right? What happens? When you take a person, for example, and they have, like a job that requires, let's say, little to none thinking, or they're in a scenario where they don't do like much thinking, right, you throw them into a complex scenario where there is a lot of thinking. They're almost like yo, like what the hell is happening here?
Sergiy:Yeah.
Toliy:Right, they get overwhelmed. Why? Because those different parts of their brain are not like active, like in the sense of like they're not being exercised. Right, they're not like being like used. And the more of these conclusions you make, the less of a need you have to actually think.
Phillip:Well, this is why politics is effective.
Toliy:Yeah, when you don't need to think anymore, you just continue a life where you double down on more and more ignorance and you double down on more and more suffering. And to get out of that kind of like scenario, you need, like I don't know, maybe shocking events. Or you need like I don't know, maybe someone to try to challenge you or to help you, or like you need something to try to shake you out of it, because your mind has been off for a very long time and your mind doesn't have the abilities to even know what's going on. You're very conclusive on the majority of things that happen.
Toliy:So, if you're conclusive, like what is there left to think about? You just play out the slow death that you've created.
Phillip:Well, happy Friday everyone.
Eldar:Holy shit yeah.
Phillip:So, like, the way that I think about that is that like, if you have a representative, like of somebody who is going to represent somebody who's probably has a thinking mind but also wants a position of power and realizes there is a majority of people that have closed off their mind, They've had these realizations, okay.
Toliy:And like just yeah, thinking about it from that perspective, with the amount of different people out there, how the fuck is there like there's only two parties that people participate in? Right, how's that possible?
Phillip:Yeah.
Toliy:That's why, everyone either one or the other. There's really no other complexities to it. Are people that similar?
Phillip:But when you say somebody's dumb, I think we're actually talking about how somebody becomes dumb. Yes, so the way that when somebody is calling it like dumb, when you're little, you're saying like hey, you're stupid. I think what happens is you have this certain belief system, you're not being open minded, you're being so rigid that you actually close off your strength, which could be thinking and being having a reasonable mind, and then you actually do only fall into probably one or two categories where you're probably easily marketed to your easily manipulated and you're coming from a place of weakness.
Eldar:And most of the time, what is it? It's fucking emotion based.
Phillip:It's emotion based and just it's saying, hey, like I hear you. And at the end of the day, if you're connecting with somebody and they want to be heard, once that emotional connection is made, whether it's based off of truth or not, that person is living that reality in their head. They created some mumbo jumbo like world that they're living in.
Eldar:So the question is is war number one, inevitable and super necessary.
Phillip:I think war is beyond inevitable and that's why, throughout history, war has always been a part of our society.
Eldar:It's a way to cleanse this world from the ignorance.
Phillip:Yeah, you understand this by the way this one war thinking to a different level.
Eldar:Why war, why war?
Tommy:Why war? Why, why not truth?
Eldar:You're not understanding, tom, what we just described. We describe polar opposites, right? Both emotionally driven, both are sticking to their attachments and the egos and their pride and all that stuff. Sooner or later they're going to meet.
Toliy:It's opposites and they have to fight, and neither of them are operating on the truth because they were.
Tommy:Realizations are, you know, like they're like they're, in a way, harmless.
Eldar:What's, tom Okay?
Tommy:I think you missed the point. You're the most dangerous person I ever met. I realize that this guy is rambling Tom.
Eldar:Yeah, but Tom, you better roll, tom. You see, that's the thing You've come to realization. That's completely incorrect. I learned a lot from this conversation.
Tommy:He just said something right. I realized he's rambling and what he said has maybe withheld a little bit of the truth. Yeah Right, tom, so this is harmless, we're not going to go all out war here.
Eldar:No, but the bit is a fight. This is an argument. You know what I'm saying? He's not going to fucking kill you here. You're not going to kill him, obviously.
Phillip:But there's a fight, there's an argument right, it's totally was a world leader, he would. He would execute you. You're a country. You're a country, you're a country.
Eldar:You're a country. You're going to get blown into the pit. It would be 300.
Toliy:The movie 300. You're a country, you're a country.
Phillip:You're a country, you're a country, you're a country. You've got a million.
Sergiy:You've got a million.
Tommy:This guy. We have nothing like 300 great. Can you explain to me how he extracted? That's it. That's all he had.
Eldar:Yeah, he was a stupid fight because he's still thinking about his school example, bro. He didn't pay attention to anything, whatever you try to install in his brain is going to manifest itself in 17 years. He doesn't like that.
Phillip:He's a school example. He doesn't like that he's a school and he realizes now that he's talking about his school example.
Tommy:You're talking.
Toliy:You're talking that was actually true, but I don't think so. All right, 47.
Tommy:47 years. We'll get it from the very beginning, with hell saying anything, but I did not realize any truth that he brought up here. He used me as a as his puppet. Are you saying that he's stuck his?
Phillip:hand up your butt. And then he started to.
Tommy:I'm saying I'm really, I'm really like, I'm like, if you're, serious.
Eldar:I'll try my best to explain to you if you really want to get him a drink?
Tommy:I don't know, I don't need it to be explained to me, but it's now it's set upon.
Sergiy:What is that it can? The rinse is bliss. Yeah, now there's a pretext.
Tommy:Yes, this idea that you know, I don't know you. Can you realize something about you, tom, the nature of your life, which I did not realize at all? And if I shared something with him in confidence, I feel like he misinterpreted it and he's looking for some weakness to exploit so that he can make an explanation here that allows him to get something from from from the discussion.
Eldar:He was not trying to use you not using his own examples.
Tommy:Use your own example. Use your own experiences. Tom he's not, there was no point presented something subjective, incorrect and also as a starting to the conversation you've. You've laid out some stakes here now, so it's got to be correct.
Sergiy:Are you throwing some fancy words? He's doing the war.
Eldar:He's doing the war, Philip.
Phillip:Yeah, we, if I was the, if I was totally, and I'm the world leader of my country. I don't want to be bored senseless here. I'm actually enjoying this. I'm invading your country tonight. I'm taking you out. Yeah, you're done. Yeah, but so my understanding is that if we, if we didn't use your example, so you want to use a personal example that he would use.
Tommy:Everybody has examples Everybody. I didn't, I didn't realize whatever it was.
Phillip:Yeah, but I can have an example to right, like I can have a realization and, like you know, say something with work right, like I realized.
Tommy:you know I wasn't taking the right process with with calls. I don't think it'd be that dangerous. Yeah, no, it's not, but like the point is, it is very dangerous Tom we all have realizations, but the point is, I think instead it might be dangerous to say we're trying to unlock the door that you've closed a very long time ago and it's going to be painful, yeah.
Eldar:What you're doing right now is dangerous, I know Perfect.
Tommy:Now you've realized that like making some statements without thinking, yeah, and in a way and this goes back to the goals that we've discussed before I think that that happens when you say I'm going to be pursuing school so that I can do this, or that I can become a producer so that I can become a writer. Well, like going to be. In a way, you're talking about some future that you have not really thought out, not thought through. Maybe your beliefs are incorrect, but you've kind of screwed yourself from the start. You've gotten this good feeling, you think it's going to go far, but you're driven by emotions, ego or whatever.
Phillip:Tommy, if you remove yourself, I write a book.
Tommy:I am writing a book, so I am doing this thing. I'm not going to be doing this thing. Or, like I would say, I'm going back to school and I realized, or whatever. See, that's why this whole thing, just it's all mixed up for me.
Eldar:I'm going to tell you right now you trust the time or no. Can you trust me?
Tommy:for just one second. He says he's realized that. He see, that's the thing. It puts it on me. Yeah, and now he's pulling up his YouTube video to show. This is the most idiotic thing, I've ever heard here, at no point in your rambling and coherent response.
Phillip:were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought?
Sergiy:So Tommy can bring up points about me and then talk about me in the third person.
Tommy:You don't have to reply to it. You don't have mercy on yourself.
Sergiy:You don't have mercy on yourself.
Phillip:Tommy, let me say this You're a dirty guy, bro.
Eldar:He's a dirty guy, he's young.
Tommy:He's curious. Why does he do this? Because he's attacking the things that he's afraid of the most, the things that he does not know. But why is he doing this? Because he sees me as an uncertain figure in his life. He's scared of me.
Mike:He's like why is he just wandering?
Phillip:I'm so glad. I'm so glad, Tommy, if you removed yourself from the situation you'd actually realize that you're here.
Tommy:I'm realizing these things.
Phillip:No, your school example actually helped us all come to what the realization is. So if you actually looked at it, your example was actually very, very helpful, Phil.
Tommy:I don't want to get started on that. You're about to get in trouble too. You're next. You're next, buddy.
Phillip:My example, or could have been told is. The point is, we all have personal examples of you.
Toliy:You guys are co-dictators. Yeah, but in your own country, tom.
Eldar:This is dictatorship, bro, and you don't have a say in this shit. I have accepted that from the point of the record.
Toliy:Sit over there before I turn off your fucking mic. But Tom is the king of realizations. That's the problem when this kingdom is attacked to, that's right.
Eldar:When this kingdom is attacked, it's over. Your ego flares up like crazy.
Tommy:He feels like we all see his hand computer. That's why he's bugging out.
Eldar:Yeah, we get it. We'll get it, tom, you cannot control yourself, but you are ours and you're in good hands.
Tommy:So we're not all safe. Are you sure to say that he can't defend himself?
Eldar:Tom, you're the man bro. Should we cry or should we laugh? That's a more appropriate question.
Tommy:He said something that's just fallen flat on his face, right. I'm accepting of that because I bought into this conversation realizing something, and that's why I'm asking why discuss war and why not instead discuss partial truths?
Eldar:Tom, I guess maybe we were generalizing a lot of the stuff that we're talking about, but we're trying to be a little bit more specific as to why certain things happen in the first place. We've concluded that a lot of our realizations actually stump our growth. How? I don't know if I've bought in yet, but how? How is that? For example, I realized that the most important thing right now is to lose weight. For example, the most thing is important is to lose weight. I go and I put myself on a very specific schedule to lose weight Lifting weights, running, doing this, whatever, whatever, whatever.
Eldar:Just to come to find out that something else was wrong. Actually, my kid is failing in school and now they're acting out in school. You know what I mean? They're biting other kids, they're fighting with them and stuff like that. You know what I mean? That was the most important thing. Now I've created a bigger problem somewhere else while focusing, thinking that the most important thing was me losing weight. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, stuff like that. This is what we're talking about, where a lot of the times we've come to these realizations, we'll go, we play them out in real life, just to find out that that wasn't it. Yeah, that's all we're saying. Yeah, I get it. You know what I mean. Okay, and because we have these conclusive statements, they hinder our growth and our potential to learn more. You know what I'm saying.
Eldar:Yeah, and then also, we mislead ourselves to see maybe the bigger picture, because there's always a bigger picture and we're thinking, trying to find out why Socrates behaved the way that he did. In order to prevent what? And I think he tried to prevent war within himself, that war that we're talking about, that he didn't want to go on a long journey of being fucking wrong. You know what I'm saying. He wanted to go on the journey to explore what the truth is and what we do, that is, keep an open mind, keep the door open. Okay, I found out all this truth. But you know what I'm not really sure about this, I'm not sure about this, I'm not sure about that that's, keeping the open mind and allowing you for eternal growth potential to continue to expand.
Eldar:As soon as we make statements, we put flags there like this is it? This is the truth. We do something to ourselves, we commit a crime against ourselves. Okay, this is what we're talking about. Your example has nothing to do. We're attacking you. We're not saying anything bad about you. It was just a good example for the moment.
Tommy:We all have these examples. I agree with that. I agree with everything you said. You know what I'm saying and that doesn't in any way flip my ideas. Do you want to apologize to Tully and buy him a big one?
Eldar:I think he always mean apology, but I don't think it's ever going to come. No, listen, I think what we're learning here is very important. About a lot of times, we like to generalize shit, right, we like to make sense of the world in general terms. I'm going to give you another example. Right, mike? Mike, can you help me with this? You said, oh, they're like tell me, like what's up with this guy? Right, we go into it. We just had a basketball game where we're sweaty, we're tired, we want to go home, we want to shower or whatever.
Eldar:We get into the locker room, me and Mike, and we happen to be on the same you know area of the lockers. You know, and you know how that is. Like, oh, that's tight, fuck. You know who goes in first, who goes in for a second. And also, there was another guy that was there in the locker room, right, also right next to us. I was above him or below him, right, and he's got his legs spread out like this you know what I mean? Like completely, like taking up a lot of space, right, and you can see that he's not being mindful that there's more people out here. There's not. He's not being courteous that there is. You know, other guys that wanted to use the locker or whatever. You know what I mean. So Mike continue.
Mike:Yeah, yeah. So I was asking all their like, trying to understand why is that like? How do you like Behaving that way? You know, because I thought it was very fascinating that the person is either what? Like he's being either rude or he's being like he's completely asleep. He has no idea. Yes, oblivious, yeah. So I was trying to understand how does that happen? You know, cuz, like you, you're sitting right there. You got other people's like If, right in front of you it's not a huge locker room, where, like you know, you're not a vase, you're invading people's space and they're invading your space. So it's definitely a very like, uncomfortable, like you know thing. People can't get into their locker, you know.
Eldar:So he's just oblivious, is sitting on his phone. He's not changing, he's not using his locker, he's just sitting there. He's just sitting there seeing that me and Mike are trying, like you know, our best to open our lockers, despite the fact that he's there you know what I mean and like it was just rude in our eyes, right, and Mike kind of was like hey, how do we generalize this right? Like how do we, although how do we, like I want to know how?
Mike:to. I don't. I wasn't. I'm not sure if I was looking for a Journalization, but I wanted to understand, like, what's happening there. How do people like yeah, live on, live in this kind of way that they're Oblivious to like their surroundings or you know many different areas? This is just one example, but a lot of times, people are like not conscious of the world around them. Like what's causing people to behave this?
Sergiy:way, it's the matrix oh.
Eldar:Fine, fine, even if it's the matrix right, but where the thing, if we're the thinking beings as just say right, what's? What's the burden on us? Right and the burden on us, I think, based on at least this realization, it's not generalized to say that this guy is just an ignorant, rude bastard. What if he's going through something on his phone? What if his Girlfriend cheated on him? What if his friend passed away? What if some other shit happens? Some bad shit happened? You know what? I mean that he's like, he's almost stupefied and he's sitting there like we don't know these in these things. Well, yeah, right.
Eldar:But we're making, yeah, oh, sorry that. So we're making right, or, mike, maybe at that moment, making like general statements almost about, like, what might be happening, but that might not be the truth at all. Right, and at least through this conversation, it is dangerous for us to make conclusions without knowing the facts right, because, like it's it's, then we are acting not in accordance of truth. And why would you want to do that? Right, we can either be rude to the guy like yo, what's wrong with you? Move over little that we know, maybe like his Girlfriend's cheating on him or whatever, you know he's going through some shit. You know what I mean.
Sergiy:Whatever it is, would it be alright to say hey, are you okay? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Is everyone alright?
Eldar:Yeah, exactly, or that right. Hey, you okay, bro, like is it okay if I get on my locker or whatever, like there's different ways to approach something like this, right, but if we generalize and say you know what people are rude, he's on his phone, social media, looking at butts or whatever you know, and I'm over here trying to change and go home, you know, like. So what I'm saying is that If we learn something, don't generalize certain things right and approach certain things life stuff With caution, because you can potentially be wrong and they can potentially cost you your emotion, your time. You know your plans, your goals, everything else around it.
Phillip:Yeah, yeah, sorry you know, I'm saying until. Until you go up to that person and you present some type of like Interaction, I think it's really difficult to do that. So you're saying generalization, I agree, yeah, but until you go up to that person you say like, hey, are you okay? You say like I Might be under the assumption that, like, maybe nobody challenged him on Undoing this type of behavior before, because everybody just allowed him to do that, because maybe, okay, he's a certain type of age, I'm not gonna say anything. And then all of a sudden, you know, day one, yeah, nobody said anything, and all of a sudden, five years later, everybody just accepted this behavior. If you're the first one to challenge him on it, yeah, like you know, there might be some level of respect, there might be some friction, whatever it may be, but like yeah if he never got called out on it, he might not be aware of what he's doing.
Phillip:Yeah and I have to come from a place of like okay, this guy doesn't know that he's actually doing this, yeah, and if I wanted to change and I don't like it I might be the one to have to actually cause it.
Eldar:Yeah, but remember, remember the incident that you had in your parking lot with our friends oh yeah, when the guy came out because, like, we genuinely made a mistake of parking the car in the wrong place, oh yeah that's perfect.
Eldar:Yeah it's a perfect example of that right where guy comes out, a doctor, 60 years old oh yeah right, yelling at the people who's happened to be a woman, happened to be pregnant, pregnant, yeah, you know what I'm saying. And pretty big show like visibly pregnant, visibly pregnant, yeah, you know what I mean. And he's over here like trying to teach. They're like yo, you can't read the sign, yeah, get it caught up on the wrong information.
Eldar:Exactly. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. Like, where is this guy at Sure? What conclusions has he made? What life is he playing out right? So another realization that I just had. If you were to remember that time when we're trying to figure out the stressors and how you can measure stress and how it impacts us, yes, well, imagine we can try to measure happiness based on the amount of conclusions we've made in our life. Sit down and have an evaluation and questions about you know about reality and how a person thinks about themselves or whatever. Yeah, ask multiple questions, find out what the answers are and see which which are inconclusive, which are very strict, and then you can see whether or not that person is happy or not.
Phillip:Yeah, where, where am I so rigid? Where I'm not Correct? Correct?
Eldar:The other thing I'm doing. We can rate based on whatever the importance of each one is, based on health, happiness and everything else.
Phillip:Yeah, I'm saying there is even like regular, like everyday examples like what I'm thinking of, like Going in an elevator, how, if you notice when somebody comes, when, when you're in the elevator and You're ready to come out, if somebody walks in the elevator while you're still in there, doesn't wait for you to get out. I think that's like so rude.
Phillip:I think some people do this like every day. Examples were like yeah, initially, like I'm getting mad, but now I'm thinking about when I get mad, I'm automatically generalizing that that person is doing something to try to like, be like rude to me. Yeah, but they might just not be aware of like, what etiquette is. They might be from a different country.
Phillip:Right maybe they never did they get raised properly, right. And if I came from a place of empathy and said like, hey, you okay, yeah, right, you said like, hey, you know it's going on, maybe you made a joke out of me, made some light and Communication conform, yeah, that might change the trajectory of our relationship forever your relationship.
Eldar:You're understanding about them, them understanding about you and everything. Yeah, yeah, I go the opposite.
Phillip:We could fight and it can maybe end in like that's it, I'll fight or death, death war. So think about that war. To me, that's the exact seed of what he's talking about. With war when it's one person one-on-one, right. What's the difference between one person one-on-one versus a whole country in another country?
Toliy:to mindset in a mindset, but but yeah, and and in the example of war, what's happening is that you have two sides that feel two different ways. Yeah, and the reason why neither of them are right is because, for someone to be right, the One person would need to understand the other side and have empathy Towards them, and that's why I'm not a person who. That would be a person who knows the truth. That is why.
Eldar:Buddhist monks sacrifice themselves when China invaded them. Oh shit, do you know that?
Eldar:yeah yeah, you did not. You told me this. I Said that In Tibet, remember to, when Tibet was invaded, I don't know what year was 60s or 70s or whatever, when they are 50s. Even when, uh, the Chinese said Tibet is China, tibet was kind of independent. You know, a lot of Buddhist monks kind of like raised their hands up and like allow them to kill them or whatever, like didn't fight back. A lot of them set themselves on fire, got in front of tanks and stuff like that as a way of to protest like we're not, we're not doing this. You know a but Dalai Lama was exiled to India.
Phillip:So would you say that in those examples, are those like extreme examples of that is a forever curse, by the way.
Eldar:Holy fuck.
Phillip:I'm thinking of. I think there's an example of somebody that sacrifices themselves call like a martyr, I think yeah, I'm already yeah, so like in these examples, if you know what the truth is. And then Wouldn't the other example be like instead of you laying down, like you fighting for it. So they standing for Violence is wrong, but in the, in the sense of they know what, what is right, fighting for what is right, like actually fighting versus, like I guess, physically fighting.
Phillip:I think they like really taking it to like a little degree, where, like they're not willing to literally fight for what they think is right.
Eldar:I think they understand the truth of love, of how Showing love, and despite of paid a war or whatever it is, is more powerful than anything else. Yeah, I think it's. It's what Jesus would do, right. What turn the?
Phillip:other cheek, but devil's advocate right, devil's advocate in the situation I'm saying can't the lane knowing the truth and then laying down to Let somebody else take your life, couldn't that be taken as a sign of of weakness?
Eldar:No, that's as a sign of strength, socrates drank hemlock. They accused him of this and they said, hey, he wasn't willing to just, you know, a runaway and be a coward. He lived where he lived. He said, okay, cool, like if I was, if I'm living in the country where I live. These are the laws and I was found guilty. I have to Take take the hemlock, I have to take the charge and the and was there a scenario where there was a like, a way to Not yeah, he had too many friends in and they said here, we can get you out, let's go.
Eldar:He said no, I can't do this. I mean, I guess I struggled with just that, that concept of like see, like, if you told me that that person didn't know the truth.
Phillip:I would then understand of like them saying like hey, I think that maybe they had like a realization right, like I think that we should do this because it's the right thing to do. But if you know the truth and you believe in love, and then somebody's going to take your life, I'm not saying you're going to take your life and then somebody's going to take your life. I'm not saying whether it's wrong or not, it's just hard for me to wrap my brain.
Eldar:I think you probably have a probably having a hard time wrap around it, because maybe your association with Life and death is maybe skewed a little bit, or maybe your attachment to life and being to like life's the most important, or I like, where that's an inevitable thing, correct where it's like you're judging you that Death is very bad. Right, whatever happens to you, but death is really bad where life is the most important thing, is the most precious thing, right.
Phillip:Where there are so. So if I'm looking at it in totality, like a cycle where, like, life and death are inevitable and it's like this, like ever-evolving Door, then I would say that, like that, that person that it is doing, that's doing the right thing, and then they can potentially come back.
Eldar:We'll see. That's the thing. I think that because Socrates believed in the immortality of the soul, right? I don't think he was willing to corrupt his soul for a temporary like life extension.
Phillip:Yes, that makes sense. Yeah, so yeah yeah, and talking about life More so than, like, just the one that we have now. If you are a believer in multiple lives, or coming back, or a mortal soul like that, yeah then. Yeah, then I can understand.
Mike:I'm not sure if that was the reason. I think they understood the value of life, but they understood that the way that you live life is more important than life you like yeah, the pretty standing behind the values. There's principles those are worth more than your actual being alive in this human form. Yeah, and I break those things to stay alive if you did then, then what is?
Eldar:it that you're like so in that example.
Phillip:If you broke that, you decide to fight back, and then you'd have to, you know, take other people's lives. You'd be doing the thing that you don't even you don't believe you keep your life, and then your life becomes something that you don't believe, and then you probably want to take your own life. Anyway, right.
Eldar:I was happy 100%.
Phillip:Okay, that makes sense.
Eldar:Tom, are you okay? Sounds like you went through a little realization, but I'm gonna leave you to do it, perhaps, yeah perhaps I just sent a letter, a handwritten letter.
Sergiy:Can you move a little bit after?
Tommy:I sent that letter after I put in the mailbox or like even on the way, just thinking like it is what I'm thinking, what I'm realizing. You know about this what I've wrote. You know it's weird. It's like I sent something, then I had this idea and like it's weird. It's weird because I've put something on paper, I've expressed something, I've put myself on the page and then you realize that you can't take it back, because you like taking stuff back you realize you can't take it back as long as you put that in the, in the yeah, the thing you created a physical product and now it's in the universe.
Tommy:What do you do with this idea now? What do you do with this, this thought, now you have to live with it, tom you hope the male gets.
Mike:You have to live with it, yeah so it's funny, because, whatever you realize, about that person's house and you wait and stock their mail.
Tommy:What? Whatever you realize about that letter, yeah uh, after it's gone or you know, you're on your way to drop it off, as I told somebody off, Didn't you I what I told somebody off?
Tommy:Yeah, I wrote my, my representative. No, it's not anything like that, it's fan mail. I sent fan mail but you know I realized something and I realized some things about what I said and what I could have said and whatever. And you know I realized this is futile. I'm like there's no point to this. I'm just dropping it off in the mailbox.
Eldar:But it's something you have to be comfortable with this is again a good example Of you realize something you said down. You put it to paper. You put it down because you had some kind of a moment, and then you slept on it after you dropped it off and you shit your pants. No, no, I didn't.
Tommy:That's exactly what I slept on it for two nights.
Eldar:Yeah, and then you regretted it before I wrote it.
Tommy:Yeah and then you regretted it before I wrote it, and then I, and then I sent it and then you regretted it, you just said it. I didn't say I regret it. I said I had Realizations on the way to drop it off and after I dropped it off about what I said and what I expressed, uh-huh and that how I might have expressed it differently, and that's something as a writer, he's good.
Toliy:He's good, right you have to start Monday. This is key when it's hard to say, because we need to make more money immediately.
Eldar:Yes, you understand this or no, so what?
Toliy:we're trying to do so.
Tommy:What I'm saying is.
Phillip:I get it, I get it. We need to earn more money. Okay, so, when I see Tommy now, when I used to live in LA, or like now, you can still see it. There's the guys, uh, when it's like 70 or like 80 to 30 weather, that go to the coffee shops and, like you know, middle of like July, and they have the the beanie cap. Oh, my god, you know these ones. Yeah, like that, when I'm looking at him, I totally get it. And then like to me, like my associations with, like those type of belief systems, yeah, oh, like what is like playing at right now, like in in real life that we're not buying any of this shit.
Phillip:No, no, like it's like these conversations that like that person would usually have they would usually have people around them with that Just kind of say, yes, you'll buy it. Like he doesn't understand how valuable it is to have people that are just saying no, like like long term, yeah.
Tommy:I might not see it Now. I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.
Toliy:Yeah long you supposed to solve it.
Tommy:I've heard something about beanie people yes in.
Phillip:LA long term.
Mike:I think you're gonna work no.
Phillip:We'll play this for his, like, 49th birthday birthday yes, and it'll be like guys, this is the best gift for them. You're right, all his gifts we already have yes, they're already done all the podcasts, like all these things.
Tommy:I want to put out like I want to attack kind of like self doubt and I want to attack kind of Self-destructive.
Eldar:Listen. Hold on before you go there. We can definitely go there, we will okay. Is everybody comfortable with where we got to, with realizations and generalizations?
Phillip:yeah, I had some nice Realizations good me too, me too.
Sergiy:Yeah, totally, I also realized something. Okay, tommy doesn't know what the fuck we were talking about.
Mike:Yeah.
Eldar:We agree with this. Yeah, but this is okay.
Toliy:Um, he's a pop-up Totally yeah, no, no, I understand, but the way that it ended was well.
Eldar:It was pretty wild, which I didn't think that it was gonna go that way, but it is what it is and I appreciate it. I liked it. Yeah, you did like I like you realize you became the bad guy.
Toliy:Yeah, like I like the thrill of the like, the unexpected, yes and well that and and like it makes it cooler when, like, we're working on something and we're working on it in the sand, yeah, then tom just comes by and takes a shit on it. Yeah, I just like watches it all together.
Phillip:Like it makes us more humble 100% because, like I, was kind of riding the high horse of like oh, we are coming to this thing, we're like. This example has like made me realize like wait, the way that we're talking about realizations, we have to be loosely like maybe attach and realize that there's other ways that we have to go and like there's other things we have to be open to. And when he started shitting on it, I realized like I have to like even like detach more even from this nugget of realization that we're computing.
Toliy:Yes, tom also helps you realize what to not do. It's good, otherwise you, it will end up in a scary place. I think it's good.
Eldar:Yeah, I think it's very good. That's pretty fucked up.
Phillip:I can't argue with that.
Eldar:Yeah, yeah, you, you, you batting fucking a thousand.
Tommy:Yeah, all right, cool, I did tell tea yesterday that one of my meditations lately has been to just accept my human nature. You know, and not deny myself these ideas that, like you know that that I could be doing something, but there's something in the way like you know what I mean Like people won't accept it. Or you know, or, or, or If, like I feel something that tells me I don't feel good about how, how, how this played out, and you know Um like to just realize that, to sort of like um, take the ideas that I have and See how they work with reality and then kind of define the problem.
Eldar:Would you be offended if I said that those the most confusing thing you ever said?
Toliy:I would be offended if you said that, because you said much more.
Tommy:That's why this is being recorded because when you play it back, yeah, and then you, you know, you feel the blood rush out your face.
Phillip:And when you sounded like an idiot, I'm sorry if you measured like the appeal that Tommy had when I first met him till now, it's exponential.
Eldar:I know this, like I know you didn't want to give him a chance when I first met him you were like okay, you're not giving Tommy a chance.
Phillip:I'm like, okay, I don't really know him, but like, okay, like like now, like when he comes in, like I'm excited, yeah, I like, yes good Like this is an example, philip, for you.
Eldar:Yeah, that if you don't keep an open mind, yeah right, you will miss out on certain opportunities where you can enjoy yourself. Yeah, this is a perfect example of that.
Phillip:And I'm saying I genuinely and I was saying it as a joke like I genuinely found that, like I like Tommy, that's right, I genuinely like him. Yeah, I'm saying it like silly like I genuinely like him, yeah, I like a lot of things about him, yeah, and I also see, uh, how he thinks also, yeah, and I can relate to a lot of it, because a lot of things that are getting pointed out about me, yeah, is that, like, the way that my mind was thinking was actually so flawed and all the results that are happening now, uh, we're easily being pointed out by like toly and you right, yeah, so like, now that I'm starting to see that those are playing out and now I'm getting frustrated it wasn't till I get frustrated, yeah, that now I can start to change them. Yeah, so I realized that, like, if people that are around you, uh, don't have patience, uh, it's going to be very, very hard for that person, um, to actually like, uh, it's like self-actualize and realize in front of these people, yeah, right, so, like, if you guys see something in me or I see something in Tommy, it can take months, years, whatever it may be, until that person, yeah, has that level of frustration where it clicks, and then you become open-minded and then that whole next phase starts. That's right, and I feel like I'm starting to get to that next phase, at least to here where I reached that level of frustration. Now I'm like okay, I saw these examples and now I'm open to help where before I was like wait, if I'm making some sales and like some stuff's working before, uh, then part part of me is right.
Phillip:It's really difficult unless the whole ego is shattered. If you have only parts of it shattered, yeah, you have to, to me, hit the rock bottom and then realize that, like I did everything and it's still not good enough, I feel like shit, what's wrong? Can you cling on to it and then is the work going to start, or then can you go the other route and then be open-minded to help Music to my ears, so but. But I see, when I see Tommy, I think of my mind too and I relate to him like uh in in that, where I think, uh, I'm glad you're saying this so we can lower our bar a little bit for you.
Eldar:Yeah, on that.
Phillip:Yeah when I'm thinking about it, I'm saying I like a lot of things about Tommy. A lot of things resonate, but also I can understand why he becomes frustrated too.
Eldar:Tom, it might be official. You used to be mine and, uh, mike's son, I think. I think Philip is raising his hand. Now you might have to become his son, yes or no, mike? I think Philip might have to adopt him. I think, first of all, my life is saying something entirely different.
Tommy:Can you imagine? That?
Toliy:That is a little patriot. Parents.
Phillip:I Just made lasagna.
Eldar:Good.
Phillip:I love those guys that you work with. They see what they're really good guys. They actually told me to bring it. This is my son, my mom's, like you, better girl, you know.
Toliy:Stop, he's 26 year old author.
Eldar:Yo, mike, are you ready to?
Mike:give away schmutz you.
Phillip:What's your? You understand, like my level.
Toliy:Oh my god.
Eldar:Don't do it, don't do it, don't bury yourself here. This is a good one.
Sergiy:I'll let it play.
Eldar:I never pressured you to be like to have the kid and like to for me to be a grandma, but I'm so excited.
Mike:What the?
Eldar:We lost the research. You say yeah.
Sergiy:I should have taken an edible, bro. You never had him.
Mike:Holy fuck.
Sergiy:Tommy, it's just the alcohol.
Tommy:It's just probably, you know, but my mind's not there, I'm not realizing. But I did realize when I sent that letter that this is just the nature of Expressing yourself and being truthful. Yeah, sometimes you are not certain about things. Yeah, but you shouldn't withhold, you shouldn't hold back from expressing yourself anyway. So it's interesting because there is Are probably a million other things where you say I should probably do this.
Sergiy:I realized that I like this shit.
Tommy:You know I I might have realized something about.
Mike:I don't know, about about what?
Tommy:uh, you know, I maybe had some second thoughts about what was written and what was In this letter that was down to you.
Eldar:Yeah, and that's what I said and and ready to go.
Toliy:Let's transition to doubt.
Tommy:What's the point, what's the point of this, of this like thing of writing this letter. It was to thank to somebody and it was to be clear about some things which I took the time to write once or twice or wrote you put in criticism in there, didn't you?
Eldar:Are you writing somebody?
Tommy:I try to. I try for it to meet the good that this person has given me through their book.
Eldar:Uh-huh, but you wrote criticism in there, Didn't you? You were fucking critical. No, I didn't so I did what what did you uh regret.
Tommy:Yeah, it's not that what I regret, it, it's the nature of the thing that I'm discussing. That's actually, you know. It's like, actually, it's the doubt that I have in myself as a writer. You know, you asked me yesterday, I'll totally ask me yesterday, sorry, oh, um, what if? What if you don't get a book deal? You know, and how willing, how long are you willing to work to get a book deal? And I, what I said to him was like I, you know, I mean well, to make the point is to make the point.
Tommy:It's that, um, you know, the nature of the thing that I'm discussing here is I don't know whether or not I can be successful, I'm going to be sick. I don't know, like, I'm not sure if I can be successful at this, but you know, I'm like, I'm trying to find a way to Target this and like and and like, aim for it, aim for, for a goal and and like, pursue it with to, with my best effort. You know, and you know what, I can be doubtful, like I can. I can kind of, I told, totally, I told you yesterday, right, once I take up one doubt, it's, it can be addictive. It'll, it'll bring all a whole lot of negativity into my life. So I try to look at it as now. What's the next question?
Eldar:about doubt. Oh, you said you, so you thought you wanted to talk about self-doubt.
Tommy:Okay, I mean, it's interesting to me because I don't know what I think because I realized recently, like you know, we, we, we make mistakes that we do not. You know, we don't have some Um. You know, we don't anticipate, we don't make mistakes that we don't anticipate, we fuck up right.
Eldar:I've heard something. Just I got you. So yeah, go ahead, go ahead. I like to hear it, because that's where I was going. Self-doubt is a good thing.
Mike:It's giving you a hint that you're doing the wrong thing? Hmm, and.
Eldar:I'm gonna, I'm gonna build on that right. I think that self-doubt almost is a Is an indication to us that Just by being human, which we all are, we have installed in us innately the truth of what's right and wrong. Right, almost the ethic, yeah.
Mike:Everything that we say, and we say in the same stuff every time, is everything that Socrates is saying yeah, the recollection of the soul. You just referenced, you know, you just referenced again the recollection of the soul.
Tommy:Like I would usually say well, like the thing that I would. The core message that I would give with self-doubt is I doubt in myself as an artist. So how does that? How would you translate that? You said that you were realized that you're doing something wrong when you have self-doubt.
Mike:You are not. Self-doubt is just an. Again it's. You are not qualified to do what you're doing and the choices you're making, the conclusions you're going to. You're too arrogant.
Eldar:But but yes, very good point. But you see, self-doubt comes in from where? From your own self as well. That means there's something inside of you innately that can make a judgment call is just to give you that little butterfly feeling or whatever in your stomach. That's like yo, this might be off, and why right.
Mike:But self-doubt is like almost like some kind of weird surface, a weird, very weird purpose, because typically you're never going to act on it.
Eldar:Well, that's because you're probably far away from examination.
Mike:Yeah.
Eldar:But it's like, but it's super necessary.
Mike:The self-doubt is like a. It's a mechanism that serves a very good purpose, but it's the signal. It's like it's like a submarine. It's a thousand feet underneath and you're not going to hear it, but it nonetheless, it's yours and it's a guide, Tom.
Tommy:I think that's also related to anxiety. What we were talking about is you're kind of giving yourself a grade whether or not you know the origin of what this is. Yeah, yeah, and I think definitely self-doubt and anxiety for me are related at least. But you know what In terms of self-doubt, anxiety?
Mike:is a function of self-doubt, self-anxiety causes. I mean, the cause of anxiety is going against yourself. It's from doing the wrong thing. Not, yes, you're doing the wrong thing, but doing the wrong thing against yourself. It's a result. Yes, it's the effect You're violating yourself.
Tommy:Right, right, right, and it's happened over time, like we say yeah.
Eldar:The longer it happens, the longer comes around the worse anxiety it gets.
Tommy:Yeah, yeah, that plays out with myself, doubt in art, correct For me and I don't know. It's actually been very surprising to me that I'm now uncovering a lot of shit that I've denied and that has basically allowed me to stop denying myself from being an artist or being a creator and I don't know. It's just come as a result of asking myself what do you want to do? Now, try doing this and tell yourself how do you feel about what you're doing? And for me, it's like the number one thing that has shown some promise and some good has been my writing and I get a chance to say, okay, I kind of doubted myself when I have these experiences, when I'm like, do I want this to be seen? Do I want to actually put this out in the world?
Mike:A lot of the time I've been saying to you guys okay, I'm not ready, or you know what I mean.
Tommy:I'll be ready soon or like, but I haven't seen that as self doubt.
Mike:How many of your quote unquote? Friends have seen your work.
Tommy:None. All right, none, I mean that's, but I also hold these preconceived notions about who should see it, and exactly you know what I mean.
Mike:If you have, if you're proud of something and you want to, don't you generally want to share it?
Tommy:Well, I'm not. That's the thing. I've only now started asking myself hey, do I actually like some of this stuff? You know, I don't know, and that's come as a result of learning, learning and being a part of the practice. I now consider myself a practicing writer in a way. I don't know.
Mike:Nice, I like that you like. You made a little juggle for yourself.
Tommy:I've learned to juggle. Basically, you know, and I kind of see, now that you know, I'm like, you know, I'm potentially exploring something that can be of incredible value and it can bring me a lot of happiness. I don't know.
Mike:But yeah, I think many times that I guess in trouble is we're unqualified to make the statements, conclusions, realizations, realizations that we do make. And that is why do we keep doing this? Because we're trying to make sense of life and we're trying to understand it. There's no instruction manual. There's a million things you can say about it, but you know what?
Eldar:But something gives gives me also the vibes of like if this just keeps happening to us, it's almost like comics, that it's almost like it's inevitable, it's supposed to happen to us and the pain is earned and deserved.
Phillip:Yeah, yeah, you're supposed to get that pain.
Eldar:You're supposed to like but that's supposed to part. It's. It's already like we were already guilty of something.
Mike:Yeah, you're trying to know. I think the thing is the situation is what you're saying is like sometimes you can't see the reason why you're suffering with that specific thing. But I guess you can just explain it. As you don't know your karma from your previous life, they go.
Eldar:That's an issue I'm having.
Tommy:Yes.
Eldar:Yeah, but what is that? I agree, like search today. Right, we went, we went, we were driving together. You would give me stories and stuff for you. Like yo, I just fucking can't get it. Like I don't understand what's going on. Like everything I touch, everything is fucking like bad luck or some shit, like it's just all these things are happening and I can't understand what's up. You're trying to slow down, you're trying to have a peaceful life and stuff like that, but all these things are still happening. I think this is what we're talking about. We're talking about this phenomenon where you know I always kill Kai.
Sergiy:It's like almost like a program or something. Do you go? No, but I can't figure it out. You see this, but I hear what?
Mike:he's saying, but I also a very another funny example of I mean not funny, but example about totally, yeah, he's a mush, yeah, he's a horrible mush, yeah, but he still keeps doing what he's doing and every time he touches it it goes to mush. Yeah, but I just thought about, is that our memory like a lot of, like it's a funny thing? I don't really, I don't know if it's true, it's just one thing I think about. Like I have terrible memory of my childhood. I don't remember anything Right, so always I recently started thinking like yo is that? Because, like I intentionally didn't want to remember it Right Now I have to ask, serge, and you can probably ask totally, we can all ask ourselves but what do we do when we're younger? How do we behave ourselves? So it could be karma from our previous lives, but also could be how bad were we?
Mike:Yeah, when we're early, when we're young, we don't remember what we did, how we behave ourselves yeah Right and also what our parents implanted in us yeah. So I think that's like also living out some of the shit we're living out.
Phillip:Well, no, I think when my understanding would be when you're a kid. It's the the moment that you started to move away from truth. I think when you're younger, you know what it is intuitively. I think we talked about this with like things about food and like nutrition, and people get caught up when they get older of like I have to eat certain amount of calories, protein, whatever. When you're young, you just think about having fun and being in the moment and just what's the next?
Mike:fun moment, but the thing is one is that end we don't know when that ended for us individually, and when is some that new phase began, or become arrogant?
Phillip:But what I'm saying is that it doesn't matter what that thing is. Whatever that thing was, it started to put us on a path of going against whatever the truth is and you're then operating where you were previously, from a place of love and understanding. Then you're operating from a place of insecurity and weakness. Yeah, Whatever the event happened to me is irrelevant because again, you can go back to that political example with war, where there's the two sides.
Phillip:Once you go from the love and understanding side to the fear and insecurity side, it's very easy to tap into the fear and insecure person. They're easily manipulated, they're coming from a place of weakness, they're very vulnerable and not a positive way, and I think that that person is then on a trajectory that pain is inevitable, whether it comes in the form of a realization or it comes in the form of an actual fight or some of these bad examples happening. They are going to get whatever they're going to get. If they start to understand that, oh, I understand why this is happening they wouldn't be coming from a place of weakness. That would be the first seed of them going back to truth and being on that path of I realize why I got to this point and I'm going to start to ask questions and not to be the victim anymore, I don't know.
Tommy:Based on what we said, your realization should include the uncertainties of your understanding, so that you can be aware that there are unknowns in the part of it. So you don't necessarily, I guess, what you're saying. That works too. You start to ask questions.
Sergiy:What we're saying is that Can I throw something in there?
Eldar:The program thing is very interesting.
Sergiy:Right, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah, it's like.
Toliy:That's pre-programming.
Sergiy:At the same time, I think about the program. It's like it is giving me the difficulties right, but at the same time, over time, those difficulties create me as a smarter person, stronger, stronger. So now I used to bother me. In the future I don't bother me anymore. But I also figured that out. So I think my job would be to pass that on to knowledge, to my children, because I've never been passed on any knowledge by my parents Zero right. They never told me how to do this and that I had to figure it out all on my own. And I think that's the challenge of the programming that something is always Like. I'm like oh, can I just have a smooth life? No, it's never the smooth life. It's always some kind of wall in front of me. It's always something like everything goes perfect and I don't know where something comes Like, where did it come from?
Tommy:Like, for what reason?
Sergiy:Yeah, like who sent it to me? Like everything was going perfect. Why did it just come out of nowhere? Like who sent it? Like sometimes, like, is that like a virus or something? Like it just comes out of nowhere. Right, it's like a program in the universe that every time there's for me, every time there's something smooth, something always goes fucked up I don't know where.
Tommy:Right, it's like she has an explanation for this?
Sergiy:It's never perfect.
Tommy:I mean, this should happen to me right now. I could bring myself back into the equation. Okay, go ahead. Give me some fucking examples and this guy pins me with this bullshit about realizing something about school and telling everybody that ignorance is the result of that realization. So here I am, swimming in the sea of ignorance.
Eldar:By the way, I feel like I'm living a good life. To be fair, can you please tell the audience how many times you signed up for school and you dropped out of school.
Tommy:Pass LR. Do you really want to go down as goose chase Pass? Come on.
Mike:What I think Serge is saying is I agree, and it kind of comes back to something we discussed a while ago is that you have to deserve right, that deserve word If you want to live a good life. Right, because you like, I guess you're given the choice. Right, You're born, you're given a choice. Do you want to live this life that Serge is saying, like this matrix life, yeah, or do you actually want to earn or observe? How do you earn it? How do you earn it?
Eldar:So in your example, serge I'm giving you an example you told me a story about your friend who you went into business with and then he fucked you over and the way he was moving you did not agree with. Right, there was. You made a decision to go in business with him, knowing certain pitfalls about him, certain wrongdoings about him. Right, you still went in and you're like, hey, I just wanted to give him a chance or whatever. It was right. So it was a decision making on your part, right at the end of the day, that if it comes back and bites you in the ass, right, you made that decision.
Sergiy:I know, when it happened, I walked away without even a sweat because I knew what I was going into and I told me, and I even told him. I said listen, you fuck up, we're done. And he said yeah, no problem, I'm not like that. Yeah, and as soon as he fucked up, I said you know I'm out. And I was calm, kai was calm. There was no arguments, there was no stress. You took responsibility on that.
Eldar:I took responsibility.
Sergiy:I went to sleep before I would have, you know, but I built it over time. I'm fucking 40 years old, almost, you know. So the other thing I've noticed is, in this whole matrix thing, is anything I ever wanted I have it. Let's say, yeah, I set a goal. It might not happen in one month or two months, but whatever I wanted, I wanted the house I always wanted. I got it 10 years later but I got it. I want the car, I want it, I got it. I want the family I had I want, I got it. I want to work from home for myself. I got it.
Sergiy:But during that time was very hard and for some reason always kind of doubt, like I always doubt it. Like it's like I get to the point, it's like I'm not happy, I need, like I need the next step. I'm not happy, I need the next step. And it always kind of keeps me in the loop of trying to advance myself while I am advancing and maybe I have something to show for. But to myself I'm always like it's nothing.
Sergiy:It's like I kind of want I don't know what I want Like I want more, not even material things, but I like I just I just want like more out of myself, and I don't know what it is Like. I'm kind of stuck in there, so I'm never kind of happy. I'm always. I'm always unhappy because I don't think I achieved what I want, but I don't even know what it is. I don't know what will make me, you know, happy. Now I have the content, you know, I have the kids and everything. Now I'm more calm, but I still think that I'm not there where I want to be. So I don't know what it is.
Mike:And this is an example of recollection of the soul. He's somewhere deep down, knows that he wants something, but he doesn't know what it is.
Eldar:And he's been spinning in circles all the whole time and try to accomplish certain stuff.
Mike:That's not really because he like. I guess the capacity that we can think is limited by our own ego. Yeah, to say like, hey, I'm but, I don't think I have anything like yo, this guy's a fucking asshole. Or the world is like this to say like, hey, my role in my world, what is it playing and what am I doing right, what am I doing wrong?
Sergiy:I think I let my league ego go a long time ago. I used to have a big ego. I don't have it for many years now.
Eldar:Wow, surge the ego less.
Mike:Wow, I don't have another guy. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Sergiy:I have it to a degree, but I realized, like I realized, when my ego wants to come out, they tried to shut it down. Like I don't allow it, like I used to, I used to allow my ego to control everything.
Mike:You know, a few years and we can have our knowledge of what we know.
Eldar:But you also driving the slowest car in the world.
Mike:You also driving. Exactly. You're the same, Like you know the slowest thing is our knowledge.
Sergiy:You're trying to get a Z? No, no, it's not. You can do different things.
Phillip:A fact and a New Tesla is zero to 60 in one second and it can partially fly and did it come out, yes.
Sergiy:So please Please the doubters the most technological guy.
Eldar:Most advanced technological guy who believes in progress and tech. He's doubting this. No, I'm not doubting.
Sergiy:I'm done, I'm done, I'm done, I'm done, I'm putting my hands up.
Eldar:He said it's coming out next year. Okay.
Mike:So will the machines from Prestige ever really come out in real life from Hugh Jackman? They did, they already been out. The transporter they already been out. Will he make the transporter?
Eldar:Those machines are here right now and we're actually doing them through mental practice. I love it, phil. You have the ability right to be very smart, and then you have the ability to then be very dumb. I love it, like I like.
Phillip:Like what the fuck is this? Like this, like the blips that come about, I have them in me. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. They're great. I can't like with where I'm at now. It doesn't make sense for me to be that smart all the time, fine. I'm not allowed to be.
Mike:Yeah, fine, fair enough. You're a bad boy, you're a sinner.
Eldar:All right, Tom, I would love to hear your perspective on this, but I'm not going to ask you. Hold on, is it?
Tommy:okay to call yourself smart, you know, is that something you're going to call?
Eldar:See, that's a conclusion that's. We talked about many times that anytime you make conclusions, realizations and all this other stuff right, it leads to war, an internal one or external one. If you are a person that likes this kind of stuff, which I think you do, continue to do it.
Mike:Good luck. Yeah, Tom. What iteration of war is this?
Eldar:I would like to wish you luck on the self-destruction journey that you're on.
Phillip:But here's a great play, though. This is the thing People can go down that path and then they push people away. The thing that Tommy I don't think realizes now which maybe he'll do on his 49th birthday when he listens to this podcast again is that the people now are saying, hey, go down that path, but we're still here, we'll be here with open arms. That's crazy great, like that's the best gift ever. You can do whatever you want.
Eldar:We're giving you what God gave us all. It's called free will. You can do whatever you want. You're still going to be ours. We're still going to love you, we're still going to be open arms and you can still nibble all the time.
Phillip:And you can do whatever the fuck you want. Yeah, you come in here, you nibble a little bit and then you can shit and then you can go home. Yeah, it's great.
Toliy:You can do what you're always doing Family, if you have the desire to take that book right now, throw it on Mike's head.
Eldar:I'm completely killing it.
Mike:Tommy, if you want, phil will carry you in the front pouch like search the carry.
Phillip:I think the baby from the hand warmer. I think they're in the elevator.
Toliy:Mom, excuse me, start changing his diaper on the kitchen table.
Sergiy:Tommy it's. Harry.
Eldar:Bolton.
Mike:Big Harry Bolton.
Sergiy:Tommy, when are you going to finish the book?
Eldar:I always wanted a big kid.
Sergiy:You know you plan to finish your book.
Tommy:I'm not planning at all. Actually, the book is never ending. It's never ending, my man.
Mike:What are you talking about?
Sergiy:No, this is a book that never gets written, but I never started it. No, no, no, no, no.
Eldar:It's a book that he's writing but, he'll never finish and it will never come to fruition.
Phillip:That's the book I'm holding him.
Sergiy:But that's a cool idea. It is a cool idea. He gives it to people as he writes and they read and read and read and read. No, no, no, no, no, no he doesn't give anything.
Eldar:He's writing an anticipation book. Yeah, that's the most important thing.
Tommy:I don't know, sir, maybe a year, but that should be my best guess. But that could be a good idea. It's a great idea.
Sergiy:No, no, no. Releasing a book that never stops.
Tommy:And people keep reading and reading and reading and reading, and reading and reading.
Sergiy:That's a good idea. Yeah, well, that happens. What about another idea? I've never heard of a book like that.
Eldar:He released a book that was never written.
Sergiy:Oh Are you really saying a book? Yeah, I do. That's a good idea. He's out of the matrix.
Eldar:How much? Of the paintings it's been done the paintings, yeah the blank canvas, the blank canvas.
Tommy:Yeah, I think multiple people have probably written over a thousand pages and thrown them out.
Mike:They're definitely more people I say you publish a book that just has a by Tom and everything else is blank. I'm not one of those people, sir, I'm not one of those people.
Tommy:But then again I think I'm more adaptive to change. I'm much more adaptive to change today than it used to be, so I take advice, kind of like seriously Okay, yeah, so how? Many times I'm asking why is that? You know I actually get caught up a lot in the writer's block. You know what I mean. Like I just I write away, just talking to this fake-ass voice.
Mike:What is the book about?
Tommy:It's a book about nothing.
Mike:It's a book about nothing.
Sergiy:Well, nothing book about nothing Roughly about like my teenage years. Oh, there he is wearing one more, but roughly, you know actually, so it's a memoir.
Tommy:It's early or like maybe tweenage. It's a memoir and teenage years.
Sergiy:Memoir.
Tommy:Yeah.
Sergiy:Okay, so I've been interested to read it. Wow, yeah, I don't know a guy who released a book on Amazon.
Tommy:I read a lot of them so far he has on Amazon.
Mike:So far for the book. He has the author's name Audible, Audible.
Tommy:Yeah, a guy who released a book on Audible, so I mean, look, when I can say, I can say this I've read maybe about 10 of them. I don't think 10 is enough to get an understanding or like to know what these things are supposed to sound like.
Phillip:10 and what Tom do you have a title for the book yet
Tommy:10 memoirs yeah.
Mike:Do you have a title for the book?
Tommy:No, I've.
Mike:You know, I dabble you know, but I don't like Tom.
Tommy:I couldn't even tell you.
Phillip:Tell me you think it would be beneficial for I'll say this.
Tommy:I will say this in past when I've tried hold on, sorry, you can just hold that thought.
Sergiy:Hold your thoughts.
Tommy:I have actually tried to like write a story about my life multiple times and never really made it past one or two or three pages.
Mike:So that's, funny. But sometimes you only need one or three pages to capture what you can in 500. You know what I'm saying.
Tommy:No, I don't, I don't really know. But, you know. What I'm saying here is that I've tried to write a book in the past, written three pages and then given up.
Sergiy:Is it all pictures?
Tommy:Months and months have gone by. That's not for any book, you know. So I had, in this whole process in the last three years. I've had to learn about, like, what writing is. I've had to learn about what I'm trying to accomplish. I've had to learn about, like, how to pursue this practice. You know, his wife and I've had to realize my limitations through trying and trying and failure and failure. So I've restarted this. I've done maybe three drafts of this book already. I've restarted over and over.
Sergiy:How many pages did you write before you drafted it again?
Tommy:I have hundreds of pages written in it, you know.
Sergiy:And you just threw all them out.
Tommy:And yeah, and now I'm throwing about 100.
Sergiy:Do you remember?
Tommy:100 pages of fully fully filled text.
Sergiy:Why would you do that 12-size font? That's the memories. You should have kept it.
Tommy:Well, the thing is, they lead you. They like it does lead you, and it maybe sometimes gives you an idea of what you might have to say.
Phillip:I have a great idea.
Tommy:I don't think people start with their lives and say, okay, here's the story I'm going to tell and you remember it all so clearly and now you're going to it's going to pour out at you and it's going to be a fucking massive piece now.
Sergiy:Why would it be cooler if you?
Tommy:But I don't know, first of all because I also need to take in other authors. Be careful with questions that are all very open in there.
Phillip:Yeah, no, I got the idea.
Mike:I know what the book is.
Phillip:I know what the book is.
Toliy:I just have it.
Phillip:I have it now. I know what it is. Do you want to know what the book is.
Eldar:Do you want to know what the success book is? Tom, can you bless them with the answer of yes?
Phillip:Do you want to know what the book is, or no?
Eldar:Come on, please Muster it in you.
Tommy:Why is it the answer like dependent on me?
Eldar:It's very important.
Tommy:If you have an idea to present, present it. Why would I have to act? Yes to it. That's for you, though.
Phillip:You know, if you're not going to ask us, you're going to write X amount of pages. Whatever you tell us to write, it's going to be our interpretation of what we think that you are and the book is all the sides of Tommy and how we think that we see him, plus his version of what he thinks that he is. And it's all the sides of Tommy.
Sergiy:That's what the book is. Amen, I'm going to behead you after that, we all, I think I kind of already know.
Phillip:Everybody writes five pages of the book. We all write them.
Eldar:He writes his I'm going to say I'm going to need 30 pages.
Phillip:He sets the tone on how many pages. I need a lot. Okay, I have a lot to say. Fine, you get. So you're a different level, I'll take five pages Okay. I need 50. Oh, I'm minimum five. Yeah, I'm in for five easy.
Eldar:Mike, 50 words, 50 words, oh my God Hi.
Phillip:He's in a four by six, we got a four by six. Mike is listening.
Tommy:And if you try to understand what he's saying, by interpreting it I'll do it.
Phillip:Okay, I'm in. It's called like the faces of Tommy or like all the size.
Eldar:We have to publish this. We have to publish this, yes, but this is the book. Should we write this book before Tom writes his?
Mike:That's the same. We should write the book without Tom to write a and publish it A 10 book series before he writes it, and now imagine he.
Eldar:Oh my God, it's a book series. Right Like we can write a biography.
Phillip:So this is what happens he writes his version of his. After it's all together, we get it ready to get published, and then he's the last piece of the puzzle on his interpretation of himself. And then it's done.
Sergiy:And imagine.
Phillip:He opens the book and everything he wrote about himself is everything you wrote about him.
Tommy:Yeah, that's 100% gonna happen, tommy. We can't let him read it.
Sergiy:You told me, you throw out all your pages. Why don't you not throw them out and give it to your friends to read? I'll be interested.
Toliy:He said he's letting us read it.
Sergiy:Yeah, he said he throws out a hundred pages at a time. You could have a night here with the friends and read it, you don't?
Phillip:think us writing. It will then unlock other things in him.
Sergiy:No, no, you won't. A thousand. It would probably unlock you, but not in him. A thousand percent.
Tommy:You're reading other books Other.
Sergiy:We're writing books about you. You're reading multiple, but I want to read your book.
Tommy:The point is, let me finish, that through reading other writers, other authors' books, I've realized what my weakness has been, and so you know, and that's just. I think that's part of it.
Sergiy:But what makes you think your weakness maybe is their weakness?
Tommy:I go up at the page and I continue to pursue the work. I think I'll be all right, do you?
Phillip:think they know you better than us, though.
Mike:All right, I think it's time for final thoughts for Tom and nobody else, yes, Tom would love to hear nothing.
Eldar:I'm joking. So, yeah, what do you have for us, tom? What are your final thoughts and realizations? Are they good, are they bad? Are they mislabeled, misdefined, the way we use them, probably most general public? And what are some of your suggestions for the people? Hmm, it's okay to take a rain chart.
Tommy:Yeah, you know I'm gonna pass. Okay, I'm gonna pass on the final thoughts.
Toliy:Totally get closer to the mic Um well, my final thoughts on realizations is that, uh, they're extremely dead, deadly and dangerous. These words are deadly. What the fuck? Yeah, they're deadly and they're dangerous and they lead towards a downfall of humanity. Oh my God.
Eldar:Oh, my God, that's it. That's it. Wow, I'm gonna have to disagree with all that.
Eldar:I think realizations are there, uh, to serve people in such a way that they need to be served. You know what I mean. Everybody has a different case, uh, different realization, right, and whatever it is that they're realizing in the moment, if it's leading them astray, then they need that. You know what I mean, because I think that everybody's on their own little timetable of development. So, even though a few realizations are leading you astray, um, it's okay, it's okay, you know so, but I see totally this point about them being bad.
Eldar:Right, I realize a lot of things that I do, for sure. Um, it's more important to keep an open mind and make sure that you're, you know, not making exclusive statements because you're just closing yourself off of more knowledge. All right, like I said, I think that my realization today was that if you keep an open mind, you can potentially be eternal when it comes to learning, and that alone is, I think, is closely linked to our happiness, and I'd love to live a happy life. Therefore, I'd like to practice what is being realized here today, uh, to keep an open mind.
Phillip:So, so for your mindset, then then then it would be dangerous to have realizations. But in the general public, coming from somebody who's patient, you're saying that, uh, this could be inevitable and it's okay for somebody who doesn't have a growth mindset and doesn't have something to say. Oh, happiness is my goal. They're just saying, hey, being right is my goal, having a realization is my goal. Looking from a place of, uh, um, you know, I don't want somebody to point out some flaw in me. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not ready to explore all the options. That person's inevitably going to go down that path and it's okay for that person, correct?
Eldar:What I'm saying is that that process is a necessary process and it's done the way it's done, yeah, for a very specific reason, and I think it has its purpose. Oh, yeah, I agree.
Phillip:Yeah, and I'm okay with it.
Eldar:You know what I mean, because I think otherwise. We'll have a lot more depression, suicides and everything else.
Phillip:So is that why you would say that it's not dangerous overall? Yes, that's why I disagree with that.
Eldar:That's why I disagree with that. Okay, I understand that. That for the general public, I think that it's actually, uh, almost like a cushion. Yeah, for the moment.
Phillip:Yeah, like if you didn't have that there would be more danger.
Mike:Oh yeah, I think the way you're saying is that all the roads is still leading to the same places, that eventually people will figure the shit out and they are trying to move towards the right direction to live a happy life. Yeah, even though they're making yeah, like you know a lot of times you say is that the path is never linear.
Mike:There's ups and downs. You know it's not like uh, just like okay, you realize that this is the way you want to live and this is the way you want to operate and just go forward and you always do the right thing. It's never like that and I think um, I think that's what I'm hearing, right, yeah, if it's like bowling.
Phillip:You know, like bowling, they have like the bumpers where, uh, when you're younger, if you can't throw it like down the middle on your first try, you get the bumpers and it actually has you go back and forth a couple of times, it's almost.
Eldar:These are the bumpers, so so.
Phillip:so to me, this is like the equivalent of bumpers, where you everybody wants to get a strike and you want to go down the middle. Some people don't have the capacity to do it, but the bumpers allow you to get to that point eventually, Correct, Correct. So everybody has to take the. To live a true life, you have to take the, the bumpers off, and you have to do it straight, but this will teach you the skills to get there.
Eldar:Yes, and when. As you were speaking about this, thinking about the nature of realizations themselves, right yeah, are they are high or are they low or are they middle? They're high, the realizations themselves? Yes, high as in? What? As in like on their energy to spectrum. Right as soon as you have a realization, what happens?
Phillip:Oh, it's like an instant peak where you like you want to do something.
Eldar:You're getting in trouble, you're buzzing.
Phillip:Yeah, yeah, right, you're like oh, you're on the cusp of taking action, oh.
Eldar:I realized something. Yes, you're on the cusp of taking action. It's profound. There you go. Why, if you're having a lot of realizations, like Tom does right, it is probably you're an imbalance of highs and lows, extreme examples. So therefore you have a lot of lows. So when you have those realizations, you're like, oh shit, yes, you understand, you're buzzing up there, agreed Because you came from very low, agreed. So the more realizations you have, it's almost like it's like you're so deprived from somewhere else You're coming from a lower spectrum. Yeah, you're not like balanced, right, you always have these realizations, realizations. That's why I said I relate to this.
Phillip:When you were telling me deprived in the way that, like my relationship with, like food or whatever it may be, like you guys are pointing all this out, and now I'm coming to the point of realizing yeah, I'm realizing like I can eat whatever I want. It's just a matter of, like my mentality towards it. I'm working out less, I'm eating more, I'm essentially the same weight and like the same person and I'm just a lot happier. So what is the recipe to this? There you go.
Phillip:That's the thing that we're not factoring in before when we're trying to measure out the stress, like when people are talking about stress, people throw out stress and anxiety, like they throw out realizations. It's like these buzzwords that like, oh my God, I'm an anxious person, or like I was really stressed out today. Like no, no, no, were you? And if you really were, why is? Like you don't understand how serious this is? Yeah, and what's actually going on? Just because, like when you see somebody who's maybe overweight, there's a visual representation of what it is, yeah, so then they can be like oh well, if you do this, this and this, then you can look different, like if somebody is in shape, and they're also stressed, like it's just like anxiety and it's okay and you'll get over it, no problem, it's like wait, wait wait.
Phillip:No, you understand, like the severity of what's happening here.
Eldar:Yeah, behind the scenes.
Phillip:If you're mindset and what you are, how you're living, and that's what I'm saying, like with Tommy's examples. They resonated with me a lot because highs and lows and extremes were not just with food, they were with working out, with disciplines, routines and like how I thought about money and a lot of these examples, and I think it's you're inevitable to hear something that sparks it. You get excited, you want to go home, you want to do something, you want to drink, you want to party, you want to draw, you want to do something. That's like crazy. And then all of a sudden, you go back down to low and then you go back up to high with the next realization and you go back down to low.
Eldar:Yeah, I think that type of behavior should be are you are realization addict, yeah.
Tommy:Yeah, that's a real. Let me turn on my mic.
Eldar:I don't want to speak for you. Okay, cool, yeah.
Phillip:Yeah, I think somebody who has an addictive personality would be would be prone to being a realization addict.
Mike:I also think that if you're constantly in this cycle of instability because, like, going high right, like you're in a good mood, you're buzzing, you're in good, and then you're low You're always going to thrive from the ups, but they're very short lived. So I think it's inevitable thing for people who are not in a stable balance place to always get ping ponged from this up, but that up is so, it's not real. And then you get yourself in trouble because you're buzzing and you go back to the low.
Eldar:See, but the thing is again, because we're really pre-programmed and there's certain other things that are working in place. We need to live those things out and it's super necessary for us to go right through those realizations that we had have a period of time of, let's just say, six months, year, two years living those realizations out, just to find out that the way we were wrong.
Phillip:Yeah, you of course, yeah because, then there's no pain. There's no pain attached to them.
Eldar:They just are like a couple of minutes, that's right.
Phillip:Yeah, that's right. There needs to be the pain attached, yeah, and you have to come to the realization that I'm wrong. Yeah, realize you're an idiot. You have to believe yourself. Be the humble person. It always comes back to this, yeah, but yeah, I agree. If there's not a big body of months and years attached to this thing, where you're the one actually playing it out, there's no blame to be pointed anywhere else. You're the one that actually created and caused these examples.
Eldar:That is why I think that it was unfair for him to say the things that he said about realizations and how bad they are. They actually serve their purpose and there's a reason for why they exist in the first place.
Phillip:But again, always the way that I come where your mind is.
Mike:The mind is a hope, even though it's not a real hope, but it helps people to push forward Well no, it's definitely to cope no but it definitely has a purpose.
Toliy:I'm not disagreeing with what you said. You said it was deadly.
Phillip:Yeah, but in actuality.
Toliy:They're not the right thing for people to do. Tolly's.
Phillip:Coming from a place where I understand is that when Tolly's saying it I hear Tolly's saying it from a place of like if you want to live a good life, these things are going to hurt you.
Sergiy:Yeah that's the point of that.
Phillip:Where you're being. I think you're coming from the place of being a patient, understanding person saying, hey, you know what these actually do serve a purpose, but realize when you're having realizations they're taking you off course and it's going to be a rocky road.
Mike:No, but the course is. It's not off course, it's the actual course.
Phillip:It is supposed to be on that course it's supposed to
Toliy:be on it. It's not off course. Sure, it's super necessary for you that you need to go on. Yeah, but I think that if you do have that open mindset, then it doesn't need to be that same type of course.
Eldar:If you have an open mindset. It's not that it doesn't need to be, it just won't be.
Phillip:Yes, Wait. So do you think anybody?
Eldar:It's impossible.
Phillip:Do you think anybody is exempt from having to go down this route? Yes, I don't think anybody is. Oh, you think so?
Eldar:Well, I think that what he's saying is that let's just say we have an example of Socrates was an embodiment of. There's only one thing that he knew? Yeah, for sure. So only one thing. And what was that time?
Tommy:That I can answer that.
Mike:I refuse to answer. Very cool, thank you.
Eldar:So he had one thing that he said. There's one thing that he knew for sure, one thing.
Mike:Yeah, one of the most, and that is that he knew nothing, but he also wasn't. I'm not sure if it was born Socrates. Well, but are you telling?
Phillip:me that in the Socrates example, that there wasn't. There wasn't a time where he had some type of attachments to certain things and realizations where, if my understanding would be, if you don't have an example, a real life example in this case, of understanding what this is, the pain attached to having a realization, going down this route, of being so rigid, not being an open mind, are you saying that he never, I guess, came to a point where he veered from the truth and he always stayed on course? Did he never veer from the truth that he never had to deal with that adversity, where he was operating from a place of weakness and he saw what the other side was? Because then to me, in these examples, I think he would almost be impenetrable to the ups and downs of life.
Eldar:Correct and I think that we, at least in a circle, maybe not strong enough to be able to penetrate his argument for this.
Phillip:Yeah, that to me would be inhuman, like it wouldn't be of human existence.
Eldar:Sure, and I think that's why characters like him like. Jesus, like some other prophets, almost illuminate that type of existence.
Mike:But I also think that what we're talking about is like we're definitely talking about Socrates in this light, but we also I mean, my belief is that we have these glimpses of this Socratic kind of thing right. We have things that we have figured out or that we're doing the right thing in, or that we have this open mind mentality, but not everything.
Eldar:But I think that's kind of like important to see, the difference, I think, between the sages and prophets is that you have that ability to do it for one second, but they have that ability to do it for one hour.
Mike:Sure, sure, but I think that lets us know that we can actually improve right, as long as we learn about those things that we're wrong.
Eldar:I think that the self-doubt, right and all this other stuff the indicators of self-improvement, that it's embodied in us, and I think that the argument is that, because we're human, we have that ability to improve that Anybody can be Socrates. The potential is yes, yes yes, whether or not you will be, it's a different story.
Mike:It all depends on how much you're willing to lower your ego and to say I don't know, Get in there.
Toliy:Yeah, I think Socrates was just a very large embodiment of the truth. So I think to you may feel that he was human or that it's not human, but I feel like, as you grow yourself and as you learn more yourself, I think that your mind will expand to what you're actually capable of and not, you know, and like that idea of like what you consider to be not human. Now, yeah, it's going to be very much human. No, no, no.
Eldar:To you it's like miracles and because, like you said, like you haven't unlocked those parts of your brain, let's just say yeah, right. To you it's like, oh shit, this shit is so real. But as you get to know yourself a little bit better, as you get to know the reality a little bit better, and that whole fusion, I think you're going to start seeing that like it's very capable. You see how that's possible.
Phillip:No, no, I'm not saying that. I'm saying I think you can eventually get to that point. But what I'm saying is, if you analyze Socrates life or Jesus's life or anything, to me there has to be a struggle involved where, if he didn't have, Well, he's a regular man before the Oracle coined them to be the wisest man of Athens.
Phillip:Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, like if I don't know his whole life. So if he eventually got to this point, all I'm saying is that there had to be something that got him to this point, that made him think the way that he does and come to these type of conclusions, that, like if he was just operating from this place of truth where, like, realizations are bad and like knowing you know me, not knowing anything, he had to have these type of attachments at some point to something to realize what an attachment is.
Phillip:Because if he if he himself didn't have the relationship to attachments from his own personal experience. I don't know, then, how he would come to the conclusion of saying that I know nothing.
Tommy:Well, the thing is he was being put on trial and they that that was when he said it. I don't know, I don't remember the exact scenario by the like this exact situation, but I think he was in jail and they were confronting him as jailers, where I guess we're confronting him about how he corrupted the youth, and they were telling him to basically, you like, come clean to say what he knows, that he's done wrong.
Toliy:Okay.
Tommy:Well, and he said that he believed that he did nothing wrong and that his methods of questioning basically I mean, I'm not next for you, but his methods of questioning were basically because he was curious and they were like sort of pushing him to understand what he knew, and he said the only thing is, you know?
Phillip:he said, basically said that he said, and so his adversity built into his story and to him like society seemed like they were saying that he was wrong and he was having to then, like, build himself and don't think his bodymen of knowledge was just like, like, popped out.
Toliy:I do think that like, like, like he had to learn right, like he was a, he went around.
Eldar:Look, this is what happened. The quick story is that, right, there was an oracle. This is back in the day, I don't know if it's true or not Right, okay, oracle of Delphi. Right, and the oracle is. When you come to the oracle, right, the oracle is a person or a witch, or fucking fortune teller, fortune teller.
Sergiy:Yes, the oracle is, if somebody who's so into the future.
Eldar:Yeah, what do they call them nowadays? Right, like the terror leaders and all this bullshit, gypsy shit, right, sure, you come to them and they tell you, kind of the future, who you are, whatever it is, right, came to it and she's like you're the wisest person in Athens. Like you're the wisest person. He's like wait, what? Why, if you want to find out why that is. So he went around and started asking questions, right, and the more questions he asked, the more he realized that he didn't know a lot of stuff. He realized also that a lot of people didn't know a lot of what they're talking about. He kept asking questions, asking questions, asking questions. Why do you do this, why do you do that? Right, and a lot of people just didn't know what the fuck was going on. So he got addicted almost right to questioning and people came to him.
Tommy:And then through his questioning right.
Eldar:Obviously through his questioning, soon or later he probably found out some truth about the world, about reality and stuff like that. So he was able to ask questions in such a way where he was able to challenge the youth, to challenge themselves. That's like, why do they do what they do?
Phillip:So he came from a, so then, from that example. Then he came from a crossroads of where some people could have taken that oracle interpretation of hey, you're the wisest person. He could have took that as an ego play and then just started to manipulate everybody and say, hey, I'm the best. Instead, he went the humble route she wanted to find out. Started asking hey, you know what?
Sergiy:Not humble curious.
Phillip:Yeah, if I am this guy and I have to get curious and ask all these questions, he went the other route. So, yeah, I think, but where he was before he was uncertain of his abilities and where he was, somebody pointed them out and then he came to this point where he then started to ask these questions and was set on this certain path. I think we're totally saying it was dangerous, as if that guy started to then attach himself to being this idea of the oracle, this top notch knowing guy, and then, where that can lead to then suppressing all these other people, now society was saying supposedly he was corrupting the youth but in our day he would be like a breath of fresh air where he would be speaking the truth.
Eldar:No, no, no. I actually think that he would be cool To us, To us as an individual.
Phillip:Oh no, us no. What do you mean?
Eldar:Us, you'd be our boy bro To our group that's what I'm saying To our group, our group, you'd be our boy.
Phillip:That's what.
Eldar:I'm saying I think we were probably friends of Socrates.
Mike:He would be the worst thing to have in society.
Eldar:In society, he would be still corrupting the youth because, again, what is the society deems to be important, right?
Tommy:Or maybe not. Maybe he'd be respected in today's age.
Mike:Okay, tom, we're information fools. Thank you, nothing will get us inside of it.
Tommy:Well, it's true that he does ask like, why are these things? And if you follow that along like a long line of questioning, you know you could say anything Like I'm happy today. Why are you happy today?
Eldar:Yeah, he would keep asking you why do you do what you do? And he'll keep going down that rabbit hole until you find out that actually you don't know why you do what you do and you don't have really good reasons as to why you do what you do right. And so a lot of people who used to be and have professions right, they would drop their profession and stop working, for example, because they're like, wait a second, why do I do this? You know what I mean? Oh, to make money. Okay, for what? Why do you need money? Oh, to feed my family. Be happy, okay, you sure you're doing this. This is what's actually going on. Oh, no, I'm not actually happy. I'm not actually accomplishing that. So then, why do you do what you do Right? So, the longer you go down the rabbit hole, it's almost like corrupting the person who's finally going to find out. It's like am I doing the right stuff here? Why am I doing this?
Phillip:Yeah, well, from like a societal standpoint, like if everybody started to have a true realization and actualization of who they are, then the idea of everything that we said in the beginning with the war on politics and people buying into this like easily moldable figure of like one or two sides, wouldn't exist, because if you're an actual thinking, actual self-actualized person, you're not going to be easily corrupted, right? You're not going to be like easily manipulated to like one or two sides. You're going to have the thinking brain. You're probably not going to vote or buy into this whole scheme and then you're going to be an independent person where you're going to live like a very different life, where you're not easily marketed to, you're not going to have the companies like being able to sell you all these things, and you're going to be probably creating your own things. That's right, and not being affected by these type of decisions, which is what they're banking on.
Phillip:They're banking, on consumers being brought through schools and politics and all this, and they want easily molded minds. Yeah, they can be marketed to, that can be marketed to. So this guy is going against all of this.
Eldar:He's corrupting the youth. He's corrupting what's supposed to be like the norm.
Phillip:Yeah, the easy target to sell to. He's corrupting that. That's right, america's terms, which I know best. He's corrupting consumerism and capitalism.
Mike:That's right, 100% yeah, and by asking a very corrupting capitalist side at the time. Yeah, it was bad. Yeah, so it was the boshery that Phil would love.
Phillip:Yeah. So I would say now it would probably be at the peak of a time where everything your time, just think of now where you can be a guy who can just go on his phone and create a channel about yourself. Like, think about, think about how fame worked when you were in the 50s or 60s or earlier, where you had an audition, you had to have talent and then you had to be accepted, and then you had to learn lines or have a song and then present and then get accepted on the small little 1% or less group of people who are famous. Nowadays the people that can be famous, you can just have a phone and just record yourself. You can do a dumb, stupid thing, pop up in yourself and you can just be famous. Now, like, you can be recognized at least. So I think now I think it's even more dangerous because of, like how widely accepted and how widely accessible.
Mike:I think it's just different. But corruption and like violation against the self existed for thousands of years. Now it just looks different and people used to kill in a different way. They used to violate people more violent. I think it's all the same shit. It just now is different. It just looks different, it just looks different.
Eldar:It just looks it has a different cover. It's all the same More sophisticated cover.
Phillip:I would say it's probably more clever. Well, 100%, Well think about it.
Eldar:There's countries right now, there's people that are bombing each other, killing each other, killing each other's houses, all this other shit.
Phillip:They're doing this right now they're doing this throughout life, throughout history.
Mike:And this is continuing. They will go doing this all the time.
Eldar:You would think like look we have all this progress, we have all this technology, we have all this knowledge. It's not true. Why are we killing?
Mike:each other. People are still killing each other in hundreds of thousands. Think about that.
Eldar:Yeah, so it's super necessary.
Phillip:It's inevitable.
Eldar:Yeah, it just changes Israel, israel, palestine, russia, ukraine, some other wars that are going on that we are not aware of.
Phillip:You know what I always think about too. People bring this up and I never give it too much thought. But I guess with other countries like well, now that you're mentioning it, like other countries are prone to war, we have had wars too in our lifetime with the Afghanistan war, like with the 9-11, right, Like with Iran or Iraq, right, but this one going on now I guess I don't feel it like as much, because we're not, I guess, like we're here, it's not actually here, but we're maybe indirectly there.
Sergiy:None of the wars US has been into is here. All of the wars are.
Eldar:Yeah, no, no, no, no. But you know, if you go way back, it was the Mexican war we had. Yeah, but then it's still way back.
Sergiy:Yeah, if you go war, that's not against them, yeah, world.
Phillip:War I and II, like stuff, like when I wasn't born like it wasn't.
Phillip:I didn't feel it here because it's not here. Besides 9-11, that was the first one where, like I felt, like I was like a part of it because it was in the country. But the way that I think about how other people, other countries, perceive us is when they talk about shootings like school shootings, where these things that are very common to us, like as Americans, like school shootings when you hear one it's tragic. But then you hear about London, you hear about Europe and Mexico and other countries where there might be other forms of kind of like, I guess, corruption, but they don't have school shootings like we do. We're the number one in the world of school shootings like by a landslide.
Sergiy:Yeah, we have different problems. We have different problems Different yeah.
Phillip:So it's like, I guess, to Mike's point. It's like it's all in different forms and it's all in different forms of pain, where they're like we get them in school shootings or they get them in actual wars.
Eldar:What about suicide also?
Phillip:That's a huge suicide, yeah, cartels Like yeah, maybe Mexico and Columbia, who are like known for these type of things, like maybe they have this and we have shootings, but at the end of the day, like we're all experiencing pain, I guess in different forms. 100%.
Phillip:And I think, if we look at it like this, it's, then there's empathy towards each country, versus like, hey, we're coming from a place of, like we're the best country. It's like wait, wait, we're all experiencing pain in different forms. Like why are you better than us? Like GDP and like all these other, like nonsensical, like, like forms of, like measuring, like income and money, like if we're all coming from a place of sickness, like aren't we all at fault? That's right, right, like we all have our shit to deal with. Yeah, so that when I think of it like that in totality and again it's coming back to your point you're not generalizing each country, because if you are, then if then it's easy to come from a place of superiority and saying America's the best, no, no, no, no, london is the best. Like we're the best. Like wait, wait, wait, wait. Like what? Like you just had this shooting, you just had this war. Like why are you better than us? And like what, why is your level of thinking superior to ours?
Phillip:And I don't think it is. Yeah, yeah, thinking about it like that, you can only come from a place of, yeah, you can have the realization. But again we said, if you have a loose interpretation of the realization and you're open to learning, you're more open minded. I think empathy is inevitable and curiosity becomes inevitable. You're saying empathy is inevitable If you're open minded. No, but if you're open minded, I'd say. I'd say curiosity is inevitable. I'd say empathy is. I say empathy would have to come as a result of knowledge and choice. You may be experiencing that thing and, yeah, having some kind of idea of what it is, and then feeling that in the other person.
Eldar:Mike, did you extract empathy that you should be directing towards that guy in the gym?
Mike:From today's topic. No, no, I'm starting something totally different. What did you extract that I need to ask more questions From who? From him, from the guy?
Phillip:Yeah, I need to ask him like hey, next time you see this and I get in here.
Mike:Okay, and that's it, isn't empathy. For me, it was more of like standing up for myself instead of just being silent, maybe frustrated within.
Mike:I just need to say and I think I've been dealing with that for a long time need to be, actually say how I feel, not to be an asshole, but more so to be like hey, wake the person up a little bit. Yeah, also think like yo if he's going through something, right, if you're going through something, does that give you a pass to violate? Like, if you're going through something, does that give you a right to steal?
Eldar:That's a good question. To be dishonest, that's a good question.
Mike:But then what are our values? For? Values only get tested when you and a fucking iron sun when the shit is hot.
Phillip:Yeah, but you become, in this example, you become curious.
Phillip:First you ask the questions and then, as a result, if whatever that person comes back to you with, if they come back to you with like some kind of venom and like they're angry, you can then understand where they're coming from.
Phillip:If they come back and say, hey, I'm sorry either way to me, you can come back with empathy, because if that person is coming back with you with like anger, you can have empathy and say like, hey, like, this person is so sick that they are not able to even understand what I'm saying, and if they do understand it, you can understand that, hey, this person has the ability to be kind. I think, when you do have that curiosity, I think it's inevitable for that thinking person to come from a place of empathy If they want. It becomes a choice, though, but I think that the curiosity, to me, opens up the empathy. No matter what, it's a matter of what path you want to go down, because if you take it the wrong way, you can go down that path of being attached to being right, and being right is this person is wrong and I'm right, and it becomes a matter of like me versus them, versus like what is.
Eldar:What is? Yeah, I agree. Right, yeah, I agree.
Mike:But I think also, not every situation calls for empathy and I think I'm not sure that most of the time it's empathy. Most of the time people are operating out of their own ignorance and being self-centered and not being considered of other people.
Phillip:But in what world and what scenario would it serve you to not come from a place of empathy?
Mike:No, you should not. The thing is, you should not serve with empathy. You should serve them with justice and justice. I'm not sure if it's always going to be empathy. Justice is to say hey, but justice is probably as a form of empathy.
Phillip:They would probably not feel like that in the moment, but that's what it would be, yeah but in these examples I would say the same thing If you're going to interchange justice and empathy, I think the way that you dictate it is, if you have a certain tone and you want to come off again like you're right, I think you can go more the justice route where like, hey, again I'm right, you're wrong. To me that's an ego.
Mike:No, I'm not sure if justice is place. I'm not sure if justice is place. I think you can practice justice without ego you can just say, hey, is it okay if I get in here, and that'll make the person think, wait. Why is this guy asking me such a ridiculous question? Like this is a public locker room. Like wait, am I doing something wrong?
Phillip:It'll make them think but, mike, if I genuinely asked you if you were coming from that place, and you genuinely asked that question out of genuine curiosity, and I asked you, how do you feel about that person? I think if you were coming from a place of empathy, I think there could be justice served in that also.
Sergiy:I think you'd be doing yourself a disservice.
Phillip:if you didn't come from a place of empathy in this situation, I think you can then prolong whatever situation's happening where there could still be that anger attached, where you didn't get like get it off your chest.
Mike:No, the thing is this situation happens a lot of times, like I'm standing on my locker and somebody will just come and it just go underneath me, Like no, excuse me, like no, nothing, just go and hammer their way in. So this is normal and typically I react. I'm like oh, okay, and I'll say it out loud to be like okay, like let it be known that this is very funny behavior. And to him I didn't say anything because it wasn't like a huge inconvenience to me. He was sort of left of me, but then when Elder came, he's on the bottom. So now, like we're really tight, you know what I'm saying.
Mike:So to me I definitely shouldn't have stayed quiet. I should have, you know. I mean, I could have stayed quiet because it wasn't affecting me as much as it was Elder and Elder said something, but it was just an interesting situation because now there's two people there, we're literally on top of each other and he's sitting right there and it's not a huge place, you know, like the locker area. So for me I didn't really have to say anything. I was just to me. It was very interesting the way the person is behaving. It wasn't so much as affecting me. Yeah, you know it was definitely a lot more direct effects towards Elder, yeah, but and Elder did say something but for me myself, I do want to learn how to actually speak up more and not be quiet when I feel like there's injustice being done. Yeah, A lot of times I just let the person kind of live out their own thing and not like challenge them. But I think I'd like to do that more.
Phillip:See, I experienced you in those situations where you're calm and then you actually do bring something up where you don't have an emotion attached to it. Or I think I've seen you in situations like that where you've said something but you say it in like almost like a calm way, where it can be interpreted to me as humor.
Mike:Yeah, typically I would do that, and you just bring stuff up. But not always.
Phillip:Yeah, my experience with you. If that happened, I'd be surprised if you went the anger out and you said something.
Mike:No, I wouldn't be angry. No, I wouldn't be angry, but I think I can use a humor. But maybe in that moment I was tired, I was exhausted or whatever I was going through I wasn't able to, maybe so much as Like I didn't have the same thing to him at all. But it was just an interesting observation. I was trying to understand why is that person behaving that way? Because a lot of times people are very clueless about their surroundings and I try to be conscious about that.
Mike:Obviously, I know I'm also clueless about my surroundings at times, but I think it's to me it was very interesting that situation. Literally my ass and my balls are in his face and so is Eldar. He's like we're right there, I don't want to be so close to another person regardless. So to me it's like this person should feel like hey, this is a little bit invasion of my own space. I want to move over for myself and for him. So to me it's like where is that person's head that they are not even able to recognize Like yo? This is not normal behavior.
Phillip:Where my mind goes in these situations, where they're really extreme, is like my funny bone would come out and I would feel like to handle it properly where the empathy comes into place. I think adding humor is to me the number one Because if it's so apparent that, especially when there's two people involved, like I was telling Mike in these situations, I've always seen Mike kind of deal with it in a very even keeled, just matter of fact, but there's almost humor attached to it because he's just addressing it in a very like there's not an up and down.
Mike:I'll ask a very sarcastic question, yeah sarcastic, stupid question.
Phillip:You almost put it in their bowl In their court yeah.
Phillip:Yeah to ask. So in these situations, if there's both of you involved, where my head goes is like if you both laugh and you looked at each other and then something came out as a result of it and you asked them like a humorous question, I would look at that as like a bonding situation for you two, right, and like it would be like a memory of the funny. And however he reacts, it's almost like like who cares and like the like. If he reacted in a positive way where, like he almost blew you away, that's like a bonus. But I would almost anticipate him getting angry or not getting it and then just like going back to what he's doing. But at least you guys showed him kind of like hey, this is what we're about.
Eldar:Yeah, not showing him, but also show it ourselves that we standing up for what we believe.
Phillip:Yeah, which is like yo, this is ridiculous. Yeah we're not going to be angry. Yeah, we're not going to show this guy that he's getting to us. Yeah, we're still doing our thing, but it's like yo, that's true.
Eldar:I agree. What are we doing? I agree, yeah, we're not always on point. No, that's what I was saying.
Mike:Like in that moment, maybe I wasn't able to retire, we were tired, we were tired.
Eldar:I told you I wasn't paying attention as much as you were paying attention. I came in first.
Mike:Ah, okay, and I think you were behind me, yeah, and I was paying attention to it. You were paying attention to Nate, yeah, yeah, so I was like also something else maybe, like you know, upset me earlier like something. Another like during the game there was a very funny observation right that I have. It wasn't serious, right. That also kind of maybe made me like also get like puzzled with this kind of behavior, you know. So I think that also kind of had me thinking about that and then that translated to that.
Sergiy:Okay, yeah.
Mike:Like I also observed another ham hog behavior. Yeah, you know, yeah, and I was like like how are people behaving this way? Yeah, they're completely like unconscious about what's happening, yeah, and then I guess maybe I was thinking about that and then I saw that guy and I wasn't able to like resort to like maybe approaching with humor which I typically do when people in the locker room like doing like ham hog shit. Yeah, cause that's all the time, all the time people come in there, going in your, in your space, like you already in there, and they're trying to get it to their locker. Yeah, and then, you know, like you know, people do weird stuff, like they're in a rush and they they need to do whatever they need to do and they don't care about who they have to violate.
Eldar:Yeah. So yeah, Serge, you got any final thoughts for us?
Sergiy:No, all right, cool Serge, you're finished, philip, you're the last one.
Phillip:Oh for final thoughts.
Eldar:Yeah, feels good. What'd you learn, man?
Phillip:Yeah, the realization one I didn't at first I thought Totally was saying something, I think. Then, eventually, I got to the point where we're on the same page, yeah, but where I definitely had the. The breakthrough was when we started to talk about, uh, realizations being these uh negative things that can uh lead to this type of behavior that I, I think is almost inevitable for people who, who are struggling and coming from a place of weakness. Yeah, like, yeah, these concepts like breaking down, like discipline. For me, breaking down these words like realization, I think it's, I think it's understanding that the language that you speak is so important.
Sergiy:Oh my.
Eldar:God.
Phillip:I think that I think uh totally points us out in me all the time, yeah, where I'm saying things and he he's saying that like you don't understand that what you're saying is so important because, uh, I think it goes back to the podcast that we had about, uh, having to experience something versus not.
Phillip:Yeah, he's saying, based off of the language that you're talking, I don't need to go visit that place that you're talking about or go to this place because, based off of how you're talking, I understand how you think, and how you think is indicative of what type of actions you're going to take in your belief system and your realizations, and I don't need to go down that path. You're giving me that insight, based off of what your language is, towards certain things. He gets frustrated, as his family, his sister, whoever, and myself and anybody else based off of language, and I think totally has pointed out, uh, to me through other people and myself, that how you define certain things and how you talk is so important. And I think all these podcasts to me are taking all these words that you hear on social media.
Phillip:You hear from these people who are, quote unquote, successful, financially successful, influential, using these kinds of words um to, I guess, hook people because the importance of these words, or they're getting people's minds um on a certain trajectory to to um, follow their agenda by their book, invest time in this person, and uh, feel like they're heard. Yeah, again, we've said politicians, we said war, they're personal development people, they're celebrities. They use these type of words and I think realization is a big one that we tackle today. That when I heard it I was like what are we going to talk about with? About realizations, like why is it important?
Phillip:I was almost like skeptical Wow, how are we going to make a podcast about realizations? Wow. Then then, as we started to break it down, I realized that, oh shit, realizations do have a negative connotation. But where it really broke down was, um I think you were talking about it too was having having the attachment to, um, whatever idea that you have. And then it's it's a matter of being open-minded as you come to that, uh, belief or realization.
Phillip:Cause I was asking what is a belief in a realization, and they are kind of like intertwined. But if I do have this realization, it's wait. I have to also, at the same time, still remain curious, or I'm going to pigeonhole myself into a place where I'm no longer trying to learn.
Toliy:Yeah.
Phillip:And if I'm doing that, then realizations do have a negative connotation. So how many people in their life actually take down a word and then uh, start to uh, hyperanalyze it like this and ask, truly, what does it mean? Yeah, how many people are just running around with these loose definitions that are like, yeah, I love you, I love you.
Mike:Yeah, this realization topic to me is very similar.
Phillip:Yeah, understand.
Eldar:How many people say this yeah, what the fuck are you talking about? Oh yeah, you may yeah Like oh, that makes you, you love me, and then you're jealous, you're jealous shit.
Phillip:What are we talking about here? I think we have to, then. Yeah, it's like wait. Are you infatuated with?
Eldar:me.
Phillip:Yeah.
Sergiy:What is it?
Phillip:Are you temporarily, uh like? Uh interested in me? Yeah, in me, yeah. Or do you like? Do you even know what love?
Eldar:is yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of these terms. Yeah, that's a must one.
Phillip:But yeah, I guess my yeah, that's where my final thoughts go. It's like, as we're doing all these podcasts, um, these words that are just uh, uh, like day to day words that I hear. When I hear them, I don't attach anything to them because I guess that they are, uh, just a part of my vocabulary. Yeah, and I've never taken the time to not only just Google them but to actually Google them, have a conversation with them with like amongst like, people that I respect, and then actually analyze what that is to everybody else and then what is the truth of that thing?
Eldar:Yeah, that's very powerful. Do you realize that you live in a double life? Sure, okay, cool.
Mike:So the topic to me it's uh, it's very similar to. We had a topic, uh, a while ago, or maybe not so long ago, about getting excited and how excitement can be dangerous.
Eldar:But I think excitement is very closely tied to the realizations, because you get excited while you're on that. Well, these are the extremes. These are the extremes. That's what.
Mike:I'm going to. The thing is there's a reason people need to get excited. There's a reason people need to have realizations because they're so deprived they're sitting. Typically, their day to day life is at such a low. Yeah, they live from these highs of excitement, of these realizations, because it gives them a glimpse of hope to change something. But the way they're going about it is completely wrong, holy shit. So that's um so sorry bro. Tom.
Phillip:So so. So think about that person, right, like we were talking about like again, we'll go back to like food. If you're a person that's saying, hey, I have to eat really healthy and do all these things, but deep down this person wants to be a chick-fil-a. Wendy's and you want to eat piss-pick If you're doing this, that's so like, that's so dangerous.
Eldar:I know, it's so dangerous.
Phillip:What's going to happen is and this has happened to myself is that all of a sudden there's been, like the last two months I went on like a fast food binge and now I'm like evening out. But like now I've realized like wait, I like eating a Wendy's burger.
Phillip:I like eating a Dunkin Donuts, a donut or whatever Like, and if I, if I do this like once a week right, like twice a week, and I wasn't allowing myself to do this at all, yeah, a couple of times a year I'd be like yo, I can have pizza, I can have Wendy's, Like I was telling myself this. And then all of a sudden, there'd be like those times where, like, everything would pile up and then it would go into a weekend where then I would get sick.
Sergiy:You guys saw me like.
Phillip:I would overdo it, yeah, I would over drink, I would overeat, and then you get sick and then you realize like, wait, like, oh, like, oh, yeah, it happens a couple of times a year. It's like wait, wait, wait. But it's like. It's like what's wrong with me Now? It's like wait, I'm doing whatever I want whenever I want. Yeah, Little bits at a time still being healthy.
Phillip:And then do it with a little blip and you're not going to those ups and downs, but I don't need to have the ups and downs because I'm allowing myself to listen to whatever is inside, versus kind of pushing it, and then you're allowing that agenda, and the agenda to me is like it's that realization mentality. I need something to tell me that it's okay to have like that big surge and then I go back to like my regular every day, like my life, yeah, yeah.
Mike:That's a could be interesting topic where he just said to me I was thinking about it earlier he believed that he was getting sick because of eating Wendy's right or those fast food things.
Mike:Yeah, a lot of times, the things that we kind of tell ourselves but if we tell ourselves we live, we convince ourselves, we actually somehow make those realities the truth and manifest it, and I think that is a sick ass, fucking topic because this is goes into anxiety, it goes into fucking 100% the way we eat the exercise in the way we exercise.
Eldar:Joe, the same way you just said that you actually the sickness wasn't actually you actually created. You created the sickness because you've anticipated that what you were doing right yeah, for so long.
Mike:it's bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad bad bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.
Eldar:One day you're like I can allow myself this, yeah Right. And then you're like, wait whatever I just done, yeah Right, and that's bad. You got sick.
Mike:You got sick because you actually subconsciously tricked yourself that you're going to get sick from this, from whatever it is, and then and I think it's the same thing with anxiety you suffer from anxiety because you convince yourself that I have anxiety. And this is the way anxious people work. We're constantly sick. We basically all not always, but we, a lot of people, have tricked themselves to living out those diseases that we created for ourselves.
Phillip:Yeah, that's why I was saying what totally I agree with this 100%.
Mike:Yeah. I think that should be a good topic for next time we're talking about this mental illness yeah.
Phillip:That's why I was saying what totally with the realizations. In the beginning, I think it was the person that tells themself that they're sick as a result of eating, you know, whatever it may be, is that person that has the realization have the ability to decipher what actually is the truth? Because in these examples of the belief in realization, like intertwining, this person who is saying I'm getting sick off of eating Wendy's or I'm eating fast food, is this person have the ability to analyze what is actually wrong with her? So is that realization of this person saying, hey, you know what, is that actually a realization? Because is it a fact or is it a truth that that person's getting sick off the fast food? We would say probably not. This person is actually sick and that they don't even realize that they're actually getting sick off of the mindset towards the food, not the food itself.
Mike:I think that's it. How big is that one? That's about that next week, about how we actually manifest our sicknesses, whether it's food sicknesses anxiety sicknesses insecurity, sicknesses, whatever the fuck like we're in, million different sicknesses that we assign to ourselves, and then we live those truths out.
Eldar:How sickness is born? Yeah, the next one. Sure, All right guys. Good job Nice. Thanks for watching.