121. "Nice Guy" is a lonely vampire.

Can being a "nice guy" actually lead to loneliness? We explore this provocative idea by unpacking the complexities of authentic versus inauthentic kindness. Through vivid real-life examples, like a personal trainer whose niceness felt forced, we reflect on how these behaviors shape our perceptions and relationships. Understanding the nuances of genuine kindness versus superficial friendliness is key to developing deeper, more meaningful connections.

Navigating the intricate terrain of boundaries in relationships is crucial for maintaining balance and harmony. We delve into the importance of assessing compatibility and understanding individual comfort zones. By contrasting interactions with people like Oleg and Nate, we illustrate how diverse personal boundaries and willingness to help can significantly impact relationships. Setting boundaries early on is essential to prevent being taken advantage of and to foster genuine, respectful relationships.

Communication and truth are the bedrock of any healthy relationship. We discuss the necessity of having a "truth detector" to ensure mutual understanding and respect. Pain and adversity often serve as tough but essential teachers, and we explore how these experiences shape us. Finally, we challenge the abstract concept of happiness by proposing the tangible measure of genuine smiling, offering a fresh perspective on achieving a fulfilled life. Join us as we align our actions with our values to strive for internal peace and societal change.

we on X

Transcript

Toliy: 0:00

On this week's episode the actions that the nice guy takes are not the right ones. Yeah, to begin with. Yeah, so they're bound to get. Not the right results that they're looking for, maybe thinking about or envisioning.

Mike: 0:13

I guess you got to take a stance against the non-truth.

Toliy: 0:17

The faster you get to that, then you could change their view and go to the side of truth, because what he's doing is living in non-truth, right yeah, and go to the side of the truth, because what he's doing is living in non-truth, right yeah, anyone who actually does that does not actually have any authentic relationships, because the person that understands what's going on they're never going to act in that kind of way.

Eldar: 0:35

Oh, so then the gig's off. All right, guys. Today's topic is the phenomena of being the nice guy. Quote, unquote the nice guy Right? And I think I have a question around it. Help me with this or see if you follow.

Eldar: 0:57

The question is is being outwardly nice in the society right? Or putting the image of being a nice guy? Is it the right correlation with being lonely on the inside or feeling some type of loneliness? Right? And if you catch my drift, right, a lot of the times I feel like if you're not authentically nice, like truly nice, let's just say right, if you put it up the front, then we know what we're talking about. Right, like some of the oh I appreciate you, man, or like the other quote uh, I love that on you, you know, I love that for you, right? All those little quotes that nowadays are circling around everywhere, right, with people like just appreciating everyone. Everyone's so fucking nice. You know what I mean. Those are the people. That's the phenomenon that we're trying to discuss or talk about.

Eldar: 1:52

If you're not authentically nice as a person or you're just trying to put this up front, the ploy of trying to be nice in society is the outcry of the internal loneliness that you feel. Therefore, you will try to do your best. Right To put up an act in order to connect with others. What do you guys think about that? Did you follow me?

Toliy: 2:17

Yeah. You did. But how are we defining on who like this nice guy that you're talking about?

Eldar: 2:26

well, the phenomena that we spoke about is not necessarily your actual nice guy. Right, it's the, it's the like, the perception of the nice guy. You guys know probably, right, the guy that always like, wants to hug you, the guy that always appreciates you, um, is very nice generally speaking, let's just say. But then we also know those same guys, right push, come to shove situations. But then we also know those same guys, right Push, come to shove, situations happen and then we see the true colors of that so-called nice guy.

Toliy: 2:50

And what's an authentically nice guy, then? Who is that?

Eldar: 2:56

That's a good question. See, I'm not sure. Yeah, I'm not sure if authentically nice guy exists. I think maybe authentic guy exists, not sure if authentically nice guy exists. I think maybe authentic guy exists, but not necessarily authentically nice, because because, it's like a contradiction. If you're authentic, I think you are nice yeah, but yeah.

Toliy: 3:16

But it's like like some of these people you know that we see in Chipotle, like when that guy put him like you know the queso or whatever he's like. I appreciate you.

Toliy: 3:24

Yeah, yeah yeah, like I don't consider that guy's like a societal, like nice guy, like to me, like that is just his like slang or his form of like communication, but I don't know if he's putting out an effort to like to be a nice guy or like to do that. So like I'm trying to figure out, I'm trying to picture who you're talking about exactly and then like who are you comparing them to?

Eldar: 3:50

You know, this, okay, the guy that we know let's just say all three of us, right Is, uh, the guy from the gym that used to hug us, remember like the one that's no longer works for the gym, for example.

Eldar: 3:59

Right, he was outwardly like a nice guy. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, okay, cool, the personal trainer or whatever. The short one, the short one, yeah, you know, we can all agree that, like, the way he came across was like this nice guy you know, right, or the image of a nice guy, the image of yeah, you know, I don't necessarily feel like that wasn't like authentic, genuine, like authentic, genuine, genuine. Um, I wasn't getting the right feelings, kind of, from him.

Toliy: 4:26

Right, yeah, but like I don't think it's possible to act that way in a um authentic way, to like strangers or something like that. Right, like, like I think that when you work somewhere too, like there's definitely like levels of it, but like you default, you kind of by default, need to be somewhat of a nice guy no, I agree, and I know I agree, but over the top.

Eldar: 4:56

But over the top right, because, like you know which with the people that I'm talking about that are over the top with it. You know what I mean. The ones that like, when you shake their hands and they put their hand on top of your hand, you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, like those guys like, like, like they like, if you hug them, you give them a pound, they'll put their uh heads on your shoulder you'll have that.

Mike: 5:16

Yeah, that's very weird. That one is like bothers me me too, right, it's strangely too nice yeah, you know yeah.

Toliy: 5:24

I don't think it's possible to be authentic and have those kinds of things, because I think that that's just not a realistic way to act or a justified way to act towards people.

Eldar: 5:38

Okay, if it's not, then what's the reason? Right, are you following my correlation there that why do the people act the way they do? Or why do want to perceive them, like you said, like a nice guy?

Mike: 5:50

Well, my thing was a little bit different than the example you brought. Yeah, ok, my thing, maybe Go ahead. So the reason this came about I was talking to somebody and they were complaining to me about, like yo, I'm being a nice guy, I'm helping this kid kid out, doing all these things for him, right, helping him with his paperwork, with his car, you know with, like we're getting a job, all these things constantly overextending, I would probably call it overextending to this person. Yeah, under the disguise of a nice guy right, someone was telling you this yeah where

Mike: 6:22

uh, why, I'm just curious. So so, yeah, so like overextending, constantly, being what we say nice, right, like, yeah, being, I guess, helping the person out right and the person in return is not grateful, not thankful, but also keeps taking more right. And now this person, they become like yo wait, what the fuck? This guy's a jerk. Right, like you were this nice guy, and now you're calling this guy a jerk, so you're putting the blame on him for overtaking, because but you are the one who's overgiving, but you like doing it as a nice guy, right, yeah. So so that was the example, right, and I think I struggle with that, you know.

Eldar: 7:06

And then but isn't it the same form of overextending yourself that we just discussed as well? It's just. This is just more of an action towards a friend.

Mike: 7:15

Well, I think those, those things that we're talking about, those are just the act. Like I think, totally saying that that's just an act, maybe because you're at work and you're trying to like pretend to be this nice guy because it's your job, maybe. But my thing, my thing, was more to me, it was more interesting because, like the person first like being a nice guy doing all this stuff, then grows some kind of resentment towards this person. You know for kind of taking and not being considerate. So the nice guy always gives Okay, right, without even like qualifying the person. If they're, uh, if they should to receive, yeah, right, like I'm not sure the wording, but yeah, but like, yeah, like that like maybe this person doesn't even deserve to receive what you're giving. And then you end up feeling like yo, what the fuck? You get angry, you get upset, you feel like, yeah, it's like a very funny conundrum, that kind of comes around. So that's the example that I had.

Eldar: 8:12

Okay, so then let's talk about your example, right? In the case where you actually give, give, give, give, give, why do you give?

Mike: 8:19

Well, yeah, that's what the question is. Yeah, yeah.

Eldar: 8:25

Why does that person do that? Yeah, is it tied? Because the fact that you might think that that person will form some kind of connection with you and then you no longer are by yourself? Is it like, oh, now we have a couple.

Toliy: 8:35

I'm confused, though, when you're saying, like why do you give, give, give? Are you talking to Mike or you're talking about the example that?

Eldar: 8:43

he's talking about? I'm talking to Mike, or are you talking about the example that he's?

Mike: 8:46

talking about? I'm talking to Mike. This is his example, no, but it's not from. I'm saying I was having a conversation with somebody and they started telling me this. You know this was happening to them.

Toliy: 8:54

Yeah, but this also happened to me, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I'm confused about, because he's bringing up an example.

Eldar: 9:09

It doesn't matter, it applies to him as well. Yeah, I was discussing this as like he was telling me about himself, which I also have examples I know. When you know, when he was both Olegs, for example, were the good examples where he was giving, giving, giving and stuff like that, and then when something happened, then Oleg was like yo, what the fuck? And you're like, wait a second, what the fuck? They had the same conundrum, same example.

Mike: 9:23

Yeah, the person is not grateful of the acts that you're doing.

Eldar: 9:27

Yeah, now maybe that, but then they hold you up to that standard and they're almost expecting for you to constantly perform right and them not being even like even giving you 10% back.

Mike: 9:40

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, but why does that person feel like they need to be this nice guy to keep giving, giving, giving, like? Is it innately that people think that they should be nice and give and like, be whatever, whatever that word is, like helping people out, doing nice things for people, doing favors? Right, yeah, all this kind of stuff? Is that like a natural thing we're supposed to do? Or you think it's unnatural, like thing that we maybe developed because of some kind of stuff? Is that like a natural thing we're supposed to do? Or you think it's unnatural, like thing that we maybe developed because of some kind of insecurity or, like you said, loneliness?

Eldar: 10:09

Yeah, see, I think that there's probably a in a society's form. Generally speaking, we probably are, as humans are, giving in our nature. However, I think that we've learned that by so-called giving and being a nice guy, we might be able to get something in return, and that's where we can. Those lines can be blurred, you know what?

Toliy: 10:32

I mean yeah. I mean for me, based on everything that you guys are saying, loneliness to me is a huge factor here. That's why I posed the question. That's why I posed the question. Yeah, because it's like. I mean this narrative that you're talking about. If someone's giving and doing I don't know, let's just say 90 and expecting 10, and can't even get that.

Eldar: 10:52

Right. Yeah, it's like one-sided love.

Toliy: 10:57

Yeah, one-sided love. What kind of person participates in one-sided love? That's like a poor uh assessment to to like to give to somebody okay, so you do agree with my question yeah okay yeah, like that person should not be giving to that person to, to, to to begin with. You know, yeah, like, not on that kind of like. If we're talking about a 90-10 relationship, like you're very close to a relationship with like an inanimate object.

Mike: 11:32

When is the point of realization? When the person is like taking too much, like we've had, I mean.

Toliy: 11:39

Before any giving even happens. Mm-hmm.

Toliy: 11:53

What about the example of uh nate, how was that? Yeah, I mean like they're like to. To me it's like if you're gonna actually put in an effort to, for example, to give on like a level where it's like there's some kind of relationship being like um established. That's like um more than just like a hey, what's up? How you doing, like you know, like not like the, uh, the gym or whatever. Right, like um. I think serious consideration needs to be made as to, like you understanding a person, how they act, like how they reply to things, how they act like how they reply to things, how they engage with people, like how they act in like a different types of situations, like what kind of relationship they have with others.

Mike: 12:30

How would you find out like it would just wait till like they show their cards before you show your cards? Like how do?

Toliy: 12:36

you engage well, like, for example, like it, like, like are we? Are we talking about? Like your example with like the old legs?

Mike: 12:43

no, it doesn't have to be in general like yeah, yeah, we could talk about the old example.

Toliy: 12:46

We could talk about the native examples, yeah, that that that to me just like an easy one to look at, like, like, like, like. When I look at the two olegs example, right, it's like they're very particular types of people, right? Um, one of them, for example, thought it was all right to like, give me a call on sunday to pick them up in bear mountain when their car is, like, uh, not working give me a call like we don't have a relationship yeah, like yeah if you're of the mindset that this is like a uh yeah, a normal phone call to make, or like in your mind, acceptable, like Like we're we're mostly we're I mean not, not, not most like we're definitely not a fit, you know.

Toliy: 13:28

Yeah. So it's like for me to like I would never give in that kind of way and in like meaningful things, so that kind of person, because, like I deemed them unfit.

Mike: 13:40

But how would you find out if they're unfit without actually giving them something to see where they stand?

Toliy: 13:45

Well, for example, I guess, in this example, when this started happening, I guess, like the most recent one, let's just say right, like you already know the person.

Mike: 13:53

No, I know that. Obviously, if you know the person, that's obvious.

Toliy: 13:56

But if you're engaging in a new relationship, Well, in a new relationship you have to tread very carefully. It was very like I was very like uh, like um I, I was even like um impressed in the uh sauna, for example. Um, I was thinking about it while you guys were talking. You were talking with that person in the uh sauna, that guy right okay, and like I, feel like um, you know, the one that uh moved away for a little while.

Eldar: 14:22

He came back just now. Oh, the one that knows about the podcast Listened.

Toliy: 14:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, for example, like I feel like if your roles were reversed, he would have had an invite to be here today. Mm-hmm.

Toliy: 14:36

You know, like you were engaging him, but he was clearly overly friendly, yeah, and, like you know, like he, he was almost acting like you guys go way back, you know, oh, yeah, like he, he knew us really well, yeah, yeah, yeah, I was, I was sitting there and I was just like you know, okay, yeah, he, he was acting like you guys grew up together, like yeah, yeah guy right, yeah, right, and you kind of just, you know, you talked to him, you you were nice, right, but nothing out of the ordinary yeah, and you didn't overextend anything, yeah and um, yeah, I kind of just like stood there and like I feel like for that person to get more like, there would need to be extensive conversations and like um, like they would need to qualify, you know, and then they can be given something extremely small and see, maybe, how they kind of react to it and then, like, maybe build up from like there but there's an extensive like to me like, uh, like a process there you know to to be able to do that, because, um, if not, I think it's very easy to get caught in these kinds of scenarios.

Eldar: 15:52

Let me talk about a little bit about the difference between the Oleg situation that you had, for example, right, versus the situation with Nate, because I think this is an important distinction between the two. Okay, number one I think that in nate's situation, a lot of times nate was raising his hand and asking questions and asking for help, okay, which in turn, right in turn, allowed me to do what I'll usually like to do help an individual if asked, right. So I'm not going out of my way, preaching anything, giving them anything out of my like, just just just because just because I want to huh and like out of your comfort zone.

Toliy: 16:26

Yeah, out of my comfort zone.

Eldar: 16:27

I am doing actually what I like. So by him giving me the chance to help him, I'm getting something in return by being myself, if that makes sense yeah, and and this is not a um.

Toliy: 16:41

What also could be confusing in this yeah is that this is not a. What also could be confusing in this is that this is not a universal scale for everybody.

Eldar: 16:49

Okay.

Toliy: 16:49

Right, like, for example, like I could have a particular capability of giving something that's in my comfort zone without feeling some type of way or doing something. You could have a much higher one where yours is different, or maybe it could be just different from mine Correct, right, correct, different. Or maybe it could be just different from mine correct, right, correct, um, and, and.

Eldar: 17:07

And I think that's also important to understand, because it's not just like a okay, like, this is what you can do, this is what's in your comfort zone, does not affect you like one way or another, for example, but for other people, everybody has their own well, this is where I was trying to get to and let me finish my thought here and the way I was giving, as you guys a lot of time, said and pointed out and said, hey, elder, could be an asshole to you and you're not gonna say shit. Right, there's a reason for that. It's because I did not really have a horse in the race. I did not care for him to receive my advice or whatever it is that I'm giving and say, oh, you're an asshole, or this is wrong or whatever. I didn't care about that. I was just giving based on what I thought was right and correct at the time.

Eldar: 17:46

And a lot of times I had to hit him over the head very harshly right, metaphorically speaking, uh, and I was okay with him, for example, potentially to say and go fuck yourself, aldar, I'm not friends with you anymore, I'm okay with that, you understand. So I'm not being the nice guy here. I'm being a nice guy up to a point, to then like, I'm just being me and in in your eyes, it could potentially turn around where you look at me, you're like, oh, he's not nice at all, you know, and that's what ultimately probably happened. But oh, as soon as it started getting a little hot right, he wanted to get out of the kitchen. You know what I mean and that's what I'm saying. Like the nice guy can stand on his own terms and be by himself without needing to please anyone around for that moment. Just to save the relationship, let's just say or do something, or get something out, sure, in return, in the in the now or the future.

Toliy: 18:41

You know what I'm saying like yeah, but, but, but I think still along the way, um, there were many times where he was being an asshole to like like in, like a more of like a group terms.

Eldar: 18:52

Well, yeah, and and sooner or later you know.

Toliy: 18:54

Yeah, it turned out the way it turned out yeah, but I did think that like, like we as a group let that like linger for a while. No, I think that I think that was very important.

Eldar: 19:03

Yeah, because in order for us to all see things for what they are and collectively see it, you know, together. So there is no discrepancy in like maybe Mike thinking like oh you guys, no, like Dennis was thinking right, like oh you guys were harsh on him. Dennis did not understand the situation for what it was, right. We saw what happened, how he was acting towards you, towards me, towards you. You know what I mean. And now we're like okay, cool, this is what the person is, these are the cards that are showing and this is why it turned out the way it did. I think this is the best case scenario to finish on that type of term where it is not our loss that things came out the way they did. No, of course, you know what I mean.

Mike: 19:40

So what I'm saying is there's a difference between number one, teaching when not asked right, or helping, trying to give help no, but no, but like in an example of, at least, though, when my friend he asked me to, you know was telling me about this, he's like he's, this guy is asking me to help him with stuff and I'm helping him yeah, but he doesn't. He doesn't even not grateful for it and say thank you, yeah, you know, a lot of times and then like he's not considered at all of the other person, yeah, so like he's being asked to help, yeah, he's helping, but he's not given anything in return. Yeah, maybe he's not at a capacity.

Eldar: 20:15

Yeah, and I think that it's still in that kind of example where you are engaging these of individuals like Toli just said, made an example, like this guy called him to ask for, let's just say, an unreasonable favor or whatever especially in the circumstances that we know behind what happened, right, that's what's in his mind.

Eldar: 20:31

So an individual like that deserves, like you always say, justice, right? And a lot of times you would lead not with justice but more of a nice guy. Yeah, oh, I could do this for you. I could do this for you. You always were that giving person and I think that individual specifically him still has that in his head that you're that guy, I'm going to keep taking, taking, taking. And you're like you keep falling into that same trap without actually checking him from the jump and that's why it lingers for a while.

Eldar: 21:00

And then you're like wait a second, now you're really out of line when, with Tully, he knew who he was dealing with right away. Let's just say he kind of like wait a second. This is a little bit weird. Why are we here? You know what I mean? He checked that individual right away. Where you had a different type of response or reaction.

Toliy: 21:15

Yeah, and I also think, like in the example you're giving with the person who was telling you, that, like I feel like for us to properly probably discuss, we probably need more context as to like exactly what happened right or like what was their relationship like?

Eldar: 21:28

like?

Toliy: 21:28

it sounded like the background sounded like there was not much respect going on here. No, it also sounded like the person giving might be giving because they are expecting something in return, some kind of gratitude or some kind of be like oh man, thanks so much. You know like you're, you're really.

Eldar: 21:42

A good guy.

Toliy: 21:43

Yeah, a good guy, or like you're a big help. You know, like it depends on what are their expectations going into it and were those right expectations to begin with, it sounds like this person expected too much out of the person they were helping, or it sounded like there just wasn't the respect levels there. No, yeah, I don't think so yeah.

Toliy: 22:05

Or like, just wasn't the respect levels there? No, yeah, I don't, I don't think so, yeah. Or like, for example, like, like the other, like you know, he asked me to help him with his car. Yeah, that, that stuff. Or like before with the apartment, stuff, like that, right, I made the phone calls to the car, you know, I did stuff and like other parts, like, yeah, you know, I'm gonna take you out to eat, you know, stuff like that. Like, like, like when he's saying this, like um to me, to me, like I want no part of that personally in the way that it's at least being presented.

Eldar: 22:29

The trade off, the trade off, the trade off the trade off. Yeah.

Toliy: 22:32

Because if we're talking about that, you're never going to be able to afford. Yeah, like a four trade off. Those kinds of cases and we're talking about like a transaction here.

Eldar: 22:50

Correct action here. Correct, right, where you're paying me for my time actually, and what my time is worth. Correct, right? Yeah, um of me actually putting my mind to something and doing something.

Toliy: 22:52

That's why it's almost disrespectful for him to even offer that kind of exchange in the first place right?

Toliy: 22:54

yeah, like a thank you, a genuine thank you, would go a much longer way than a fucking dinner, yeah yeah, there there's like, and I'm not doing it because like, hey, like, maybe I'll make these calls, give them the cards and give me that Chinese food. You know, like, like, this is not what I'm doing it. I didn't go into it doing it to get anything returned. I didn't ask for anything returned. Yeah, and when you offer stuff like that, it just brings like a disgenuine type of like, a yeah, like a scenario in here where it becomes almost like a transaction or maybe it's again like the person showing that they're not maybe able to receive or like. You know stuff like that. But when it comes to somebody like helping and if they are expecting in return, I think probably 99.9% of scenarios, if someone's expecting something in return, they'll never be able to get what they want in return Probably 99.9% of the times, because for them to actually get what they want, they need to one have a very harsh qualifying process, a very tight gate. No, it's impossible, bro.

Eldar: 24:01

It's impossible. No, you're right. It's impossible for that person to you. No, you're right, it's impossible for that person to get what they want in return. That person is not even intelligent enough.

Toliy: 24:09

Yeah, like, yeah the only example I could think of, if it would be like, let's say, the enlightened master creating another enlightened master, for example and I'm actually doing it, okay, like that's, that's what I'm saying 99.9, is that like then they almost get kind of what they wanted by like, yeah, helping create this kind of person, yeah, but again, like the, those are probably like a, a decimal point of a point, point one, you know yeah um scenarios.

Toliy: 24:38

But yeah, in most scenarios people are going to disappoint you. If you have expectations, they're not going to meet them. Um, you never know which direction they're going to go randomly, like there. There's so many variables here where expectations are not going to get met you know, oh yeah, I agree with this, yeah.

Eldar: 24:54

So then the question is really right. But why do society at least, or people, strive to be this quote-unquote nice guys or good people? You know what I mean is it is it, is it a ploy where society recognized that like, okay, the currency is like, be polite, be nice, you know what I mean? Use a cute little pootsie, uh, voice right, uh, to really like get those people that resonate with that kind of stuff.

Toliy: 25:20

So there's going to be more people around me kind of a quote-unquote appreciating me yes, yeah, I don't know if it's like a intentional ploy or not I think it is yes, I don't know if it's an intention I think it's a learned behavior well, it might be a learned behavior, but I'm saying is that, like, anyone who actually does that does not actually have any authentic relationships, because the person that understands, like what's going on, they're never going to act in that kind of way oh, so then the gig's up well, like yeah, but I don't know.

Toliy: 25:49

I like they're just wrong about their, their understanding of it, thinking they're going to get what you're saying but they're not going to get that I know, oh, okay they're not going to like they have. What is it that they get? What is it?

Eldar: 26:02

that they get. They get momentarily, like a moment in the moment. They might get some kind of reciprocity from other people.

Toliy: 26:07

Yeah, yeah, you'll understand. I think in this kind of scenario, like you could be wrong, right and like what you think is going to happen, and then there's like a universal wrong, right, they're, they're, they're not, like at the um, like they're not going off of this, off a universal definition of what it means to be a good person. They have their thing and this is what they think that you get from these kinds of scenarios.

Eldar: 26:31

That's what they do.

Toliy: 26:32

And that's what they do and that's what they go off of. They don't understand what an authentic relationship, actual real one, is. They don't understand what that even looks like, so they operate from what they understand.

Eldar: 26:45

Okay.

Toliy: 26:46

And they think that this is how it ought to be. So they're under the wrong understanding to begin with, and then they're acting out of that wrong understanding.

Eldar: 26:56

And that's why you get the inauthentic, fucking squeaky voices and extra pads on your back.

Toliy: 27:02

But they don't know that this is not how it's supposed to be, because they don't know what it's supposed to be.

Eldar: 27:06

Looks like yeah, okay.

Toliy: 27:09

That, I think, is like the dilemma in these kinds of things, where it's like maybe they do want to connect and maybe they do want to have some relationships, or maybe they do want to help, right, but they don't have the right idea as to what that looks like to begin with Okay.

Eldar: 27:21

so what's the driving force behind this shit?

Toliy: 27:23

Loneliness. Well, loneliness is a huge factor. Yes, Loneliness is a very big thing.

Eldar: 27:37

So then that's connected to not liking yourself.

Toliy: 27:41

Well, remember we were talking about I don't know if this was last, I think it was last week um, people want to connect with others. Yeah, by you doing that, you like. If you have a goal to connect with others and like like, yeah, if, if your goals are surrounded by, for example, the connection with others, you will compromise, like the laws of truth, to get there. But if your goal is to connect with truth, then you stand on your own business every time.

Toliy: 28:14

And if you're connecting out of loneliness, then what are you doing? You're stomping over the laws of truth, because you will have to compromise all of those different things and violate yourself and all of those different things and violate yourself and all of those different relationships and operate out of loneliness.

Eldar: 28:27

Yeah, okay you know, but which is again tied to what A fucking specific desire or attachment.

Toliy: 28:33

Yeah, but again, the education behind understanding that and actually operating from that, being aware that like this is what's going on, like it's like a problem, but it doesn't exist in the world because nobody understands that this is what's happening. So how can you help someone do something when they don't know what, they don't even believe that this is what's going on?

Eldar: 28:59

Well, I have some ideas of how to help, but yeah, usually it revolves around rock bottom. You know what I mean. Yeah, lots of suffering.

Toliy: 29:07

That's the issue to to um, to me at least, is that like and and and and again, like this for me is like at times, or or I mean not, not, not at times in general, in general, this for me would be like a big change, because I do feel like all of these different emotions or like anxieties and fears and stuff like that, it comes from these relationships that you have with others versus like, the relationship with, like the, like, your relationship with the truth, because like, the truth will never show like fear or anxiety or like doesn't have loneliness or like stuff like that built into it. But your relationship with others, they have loneliness or like stuff like that built into it, yeah, but your relationship with others, they have all those things that like um stomp on, like the truths, like laws and like morals and ethics so what you mean by stomp?

Toliy: 29:54

that means, they challenge no, not not challenged, like they spit in the face of all of that. Yeah, why well?

Toliy: 30:01

um the overgrown attachment to because, yeah, you're, if, if your goal is, for example, to connect with others, if that's what your basis is starting out of, like the, the, the, the actual, like laws of, for example, truth of, it makes sense, they, they, they don't apply in those things. Like they're not up like um upheld, yeah, almost like they're not like universally upheld. You know and like, unless you have those proper understandings, that then you can branch out into relationships with others. But you're like, like it's like truth, truth is like you're god, right, and that's always that. Like you go to right, let's say, if it's like a left symbol, right, like this is where you go to and everything around it is all your relationship with others. But that's first. That's not how most relationships operate. Most relationships operate as like hey, like the God is actually like me and you, and everything else revolves around us. Okay.

Toliy: 31:07

And and and when. I'm saying like it stomps over it, because like the actual, like ideals, that why these relationships are like existent or why you're in in them, they come from things that are against the laws of truth.

Eldar: 31:23

And they overpower it.

Toliy: 31:25

Well, they, they just don't, they can't exist in it. Yeah. Because that world is not like a truthful world. Yeah.

Eldar: 31:35

So when did we get addicted to this nice guy and his feelings of being together is better than yeah see, I don't know if it's the addiction or the nice guy.

Toliy: 31:43

I think it's the. To me, it comes from the idea of not knowing, like, what's going on. And it's okay to not know what's going on as long as you're with others oh shit like that.

Eldar: 31:54

That's probably where it's okay to not know what's going on, but as long as you're don't know what's going on with it's with others yeah, then you're okay to be on that island with others.

Toliy: 32:05

Yeah, and, and that's how those things, I think, start to like spread, spread, it start yeah so, mike, what do you think is he correct?

Mike: 32:17

um, I mean, yeah for sure, like I always definitely wanted to be social and the loneliness thing was huge for me. It was huge. Yeah, yeah, now I'm not sure.

Eldar: 32:27

Like now, I don't feel like that Well, I remember you acknowledged it you know and you're like, yeah, and a lot of examples that you brought up is that you violated yourself in turn to be with others, and then you realize that, like, your principles came second and then those principles started weighing heavy on you. You started developing a level of anger that is like, hey, like what's going on here, and then you would have these blow ups yeah yeah, right, of course. And then you're like wait, where am I going with this? Like you know, I realize that I need to prioritize my priorities, and what?

Eldar: 32:55

you actually believed in, like certain standards of, like you know, just common sense, or common courtesies you know what I mean that weren't being upheld on both sides and therefore you will, you will get upset yeah, of course, yeah yeah, yeah, like um.

Toliy: 33:13

To me, when I'm thinking about it, it's like, if you want to call it, like the laws of truth or like the laws of reality, right, um, when, like, two people have a relationship, the the way I view it is that it's almost like, let's just say, you have two people and when they have a relationship, or when they interact, every interaction, every action has to pass through that detector. When you go to the airport, for you to cross to the next section of the airport, you have to go through that thing. Right, if you have something on you, they're not going to let you through. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. So to me, it's almost like truth. Is this kind of like term terminal, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Have a relationship together. Every thought, every interaction has to bounce through this thing. So you know what? That's how it has to be, but the issue is that it doesn't.

Eldar: 34:12

Okay, until there's a problem, until there's a problem that's when everyone's like, let's summon the truth terminal, the sirens, come on and see who's what right.

Toliy: 34:20

Yes, but it's not like people just exist and they just have. You know, you have person one and person two and they have a relationship and they just kind of live in this world. Yeah, right, but I think the right way to live is that everything has to go through this truth like a detector, right, and that's how you have a proper relationship where you don't have those kinds of issues, you know that well.

Eldar: 34:42

That's why I think what you said earlier in the car even right the importance of having good communication is to first define some of the terms that we're using when we talk about certain concepts. Right, let's have a ruler, that there is a measuring thing. Are we measuring in centimeters? Are we measuring in inches? Right. And then when we agree that you know 12 inches is this and 10 centimeters is this, we are on the same page with this. Then we can go and measure a table or a desk or what's his name. When it's a 5x7 envelope, it's a 5x7 envelope because me and you have agreed on terms of the ruler is 5 inches. You're like, yes, 7 inches, and we measured it and we're on the same page. I think this is what you're talking about.

Eldar: 35:23

I think that if you have a terminal right, I mean if you have a truth detector right, that truth detector almost is like that ruler right, a ground base of terminology that we're using in order to describe the phenomena that we're experiencing or whatever it is that we're experiencing to a relationship and everything goes past through this base first, then you'll be okay. But as soon as it doesn't, as soon as there's violations and stuff like that, you start closing your eyes on certain things. Right, you're just having fun, you're jolly, you're buzzing, you know what I mean. Next thing, you know somebody violated and you're like, oh wait a second, what happened here? Oh wait, what happened there? Oh wait, what happened. And then you have problems, like you said, and now the sirens go off and you're like, oh shit, I'm in deep shit here yeah, yeah.

Toliy: 36:08

Then what do you need to salvage that relationship or to improve it?

Eldar: 36:11

well, communication the truth detector. The truth detector, you have to come out.

Toliy: 36:15

Yes to help you in that moment. And then what happens? Like you get over it, you put that thing away well, first it gets a fight yeah, but. But. But I'm saying that like after it works. It's magic, right, what happens like you. Then, then afterwards you, um, you put it away, and then you up to the next one, and then yeah, and then, and then again it goes back to normal programming. Yeah, up until you need to go find it again in the dust.

Toliy: 36:38

Yeah, and then and then summon it back to help you. And it's just, for most people it's a rescuer when there's a fire, okay, it's a fire extinguisher. Yes, yeah, right, okay, it's a fire extinguisher, mm-hmm, but it's not, it's not a fire alarm detector. Yeah, it just needs to be a constant in everything.

Toliy: 36:59

Yeah, it's like preventative care versus it's like everything needs to go through that thing and if that happens, then I would say there's a 99.9% chance that you'll never have any of those kinds of issues or those kinds of things come up because it's impossible.

Eldar: 37:13

So what do you suggest for people that develop in your relationships right or lead with, let's just say, the quote-unquote nice guy things.

Toliy: 37:21

You know, Well, it's hard, because if you're already working out of a particular understanding, how could you change any? Of these things.

Toliy: 37:28

It's like you would need to go through the, like you would need to go through the act of learning all of these things then to start changing these kinds of things. But like you can't operate out of one assumption and then give people advice on changing it, it's not going to make sense. Like the of one assumption and then give people advice on changing it, it's not going to make sense, like the value system is not there.

Eldar: 37:47

That's why it's almost like the rock bottom or the problems in relationships. Are the necessary teachers, like we talked about, right? What is a necessary teacher for you to learn that you're overdoing something, are you doing something incorrectly? Sometimes it's pain, and pain is that must be sometimes the teacher in order for you to get something through your head, right?

Eldar: 38:11

yeah, so you're saying those people are doomed yeah, I don't know if doomed is the right word doomed to make the mistake they're bound to continue suffering with those same things okay, that's what I was saying, but there is hope yeah, like the reality, with all of these different concepts that we talk about.

Toliy: 38:38

that are good concepts. They require a a lot of uprooting and a lot of investigation and change for you to even go into the Like, for you even to have a chance of going into the practice of it or understanding it or doing all that. But it can't just be something like okay, that makes sense, I'm just going to make that tweak and that's it, you know yeah, the thing is.

Eldar: 39:04

A lot of times we just jump into our own conclusions very fast what's like a cardinal sin of truth.

Toliy: 39:13

I don't know attachment desire the basis of 99.9% of relationships is what I don't know. Attachment, yeah right, yeah. Desire, yeah. The basis of 99.9% of relationships is what yeah attachment yeah, that is like the oldest, first like uh, binding, like factor, I'm saying like that's the first binding thing.

Toliy: 39:37

Then happens like other things, like I don't know comfort, or like a routine routine or like all different things but the first or like very last, what, whichever way you want to like go about it, is attachment. You automatically commit like a carnal sin by getting in relationship with somebody if you're not going through like the truth detector through it, and then it just continues, then it continues to spiral and you guys are going based on the things that you understand and you're going to run into fires and arguments and misunderstandings.

Eldar: 40:12

Almost inevitable.

Toliy: 40:14

It's not almost inevitable. It is guaranteed, guaranteed, guaranteed.

Eldar: 40:17

you can take that to the bank, wow yeah so are you satisfied or happy with this form of learning that the humans have to go through? Is this it that the humans have to go through?

Toliy: 40:44

Is this it?

Eldar: 40:47

Am I satisfied with it? Yeah, by the design.

Toliy: 40:55

Was it a good design.

Eldar: 40:56

I mean, yeah, it is Okay, I agree with that. It's just it's tricked you know, yeah, what do you think, mike? That's justice to his fucking core. There's no running away from fucking, from the shit he's saying. You're going to get it, whether you like it or not. Core, there's no running away from fucking, from the shit he's saying, you're going to get it. Whether you like it or not, you're going to get hit.

Toliy: 41:34

It's like gravity. According to Bryce Mitchell, gravity doesn't exist. Yeah.

Eldar: 41:45

Interesting, okay, so what's up with the nice guy? That's it.

Mike: 41:54

He's dead. Yeah, I mean he's been dead. But you're, but you're trying to understand where it's coming from, where it's coming from, where's the core of it? Mm-hmm, why are the people behaving that way? Mm-hmm, you know to want to be this nice guy. What's the drive behind it?

Eldar: 42:13

Yeah, I mean, I guess to say on one hand, that the world, the society, is good at marketing is one thing, but then, on the other hand, they're very bad at it because of the way I think you know what I'm saying. So I can't say that, okay, yeah, all the kids are going to be subjected to it and everybody will buy it, because I don't believe that A lot of kids will be, you know, subjected to the system and go through the system the way he's described it, and they ought to fail a lot of times and suffer for a very long time, but nonetheless it's part of the learning experience.

Eldar: 42:47

You know, if the understanding and the attachments are passed on to our kids through us, then yeah, they're bound to fucking relearn all those mistakes. You know, yeah, but I also don't think that the society is very good at marketing this shit. Maybe not to you, but Well, yeah, because I'm thinking, but I'm paying attention. Generally marketing is really good for a lot of people.

Mike: 43:20

Yeah for a lot of people, maybe most, I don't know.

Eldar: 43:24

But you know, like a non-empowered individual, that is not, you know, like the chicken or the egg fucking question. You know when did they get not empowered? Did, were they born?

Mike: 43:38

I think that's like the, the question of evolution, how far we actually in the evolution process from and we're actually thinking and really you know when we say thinking is yeah, using, using logic and slowing down and paying attention, yeah I don't think that's a mass movement.

Eldar: 43:57

We're just fucking little tadpoles, bro.

Toliy: 44:00

That sounds like I think we're very heavily reliant on the people that bring us into this world. Yeah. Because I don't know how you can excel or thrive without the proper guidance.

Eldar: 44:22

But if it's incorrect, if the guidance is incorrect to it, isn't it our duty then, as a thinking being, to then break that dogma once and for all for us?

Toliy: 44:32

Well, yeah, if you understand it, that is the pursuit. But what I'm saying is that, like, think about this, you have like a mom is a pursuit. But I'm saying is that, like, think about this, you have like a mom, and a dad right and they create another being right. This being is brought into a, like a civilized planet right that operates a particular way right, like how is this way Right? Like how is this person, who was birthed right, supposed to understand what to do or how?

Eldar: 45:05

to do it, yeah, through mimicking mom and dad or learning through mom and dad.

Toliy: 45:08

Through learning right and that learning pretty much happens right away and at those kinds of ages it intensifies very fast. Sure. Right, yeah, so if you're under the wrong guidance, for you to change later down the line or learn later down the line?

Eldar: 45:41

um, it just gets harder and harder, but the but, like the pains, become larger and larger yeah, if you haven't done a good job of learning and detaching yourself from some of the stuff, yeah, but it's very hard to do any of those kinds of things because you're also like, like there's just so much required for you to actually understand what's going on.

Toliy: 46:01

Like it requires you to like probably not be part of, like the normal crowd, right, or like what everybody else is doing. Like it requires like the, like, the uh, like the life test on that to me is like it's so difficult and it's so um but isn't it so rewarding? It is so rewarding, but it's only rewarding when you begin to understand it yeah, and the process yeah.

Eldar: 46:29

So it's almost like listen. Like you know, if you want the actual reward of life and to live a really wholesome, good life, you have to be in the pursuit of inquiry and searching and asking questions and stuff like that and learning.

Toliy: 46:42

Yeah. That's philosophy. Yeah, but you have to first get to a point where you believe that that is what it is.

Eldar: 46:49

Okay, yeah, you know, sure, but there's a chance. Yeah, right, because we also like sure, maybe there's plenty of podcasts that talk about how to get rich quick. Right, let's just say there are plenty, yeah. But then there's our podcast that tells you that the most important thing, right, is to first get your mental before you get rich, right, yeah, kind of contradicts them. We, we're in a struggle right Between that podcast that's telling you yo, the most important thing right now is for you to get rich, or the most important thing, for you to get as many friends as possible, or go network or do this right, and we're the opposite saying, hey, you got to abandon everyone, you know, get your mental right and then get rich. Let's just say you know, you know we also exist. Yeah, let's just say philosophy out there exists, right, I discovered philosophy, or the philosophy discovered me, god knows how it went.

Toliy: 47:42

But yeah, but that's the thing I feel like when you're growing up, you grow up with a lot of issues like a, like a big one that prevents you from inquiring. This kind of stuff is like insecurity, for example well, yeah, right.

Eldar: 47:56

I think that's why you become a quote-unquote nice guy, because those insecurities drive you to want to be accepted. All right.

Toliy: 48:03

Yes, yes.

Eldar: 48:04

You want to be part, you want to be cool, right? A lot of times, well, the way we dress, we want to be cool, we want to stand out or we all, like you said, are cover-ups for insecurity.

Toliy: 48:15

Yeah, yeah, that that's what makes it hard. And what makes it even harder is that, um, humans have the ability to make conclusions on things. When you make conclusions on things, you got to live them out. Yeah, you pretty much have to live them out and you can cap yourself from learning oh, 100%, which is, like also a sick phenomenon, is that, like, you have the ability to convince yourself that there is nothing more, for example?

Eldar: 48:45

Yeah, but but rightfully so. There isn't right for that individual who made the? Conclusion.

Toliy: 48:53

There isn't more at that time. But if you had like maybe proper leadership or proper systems, because right now, lots of those capabilities and those caps are like not like dictated, but they're like guided in a way through society by like setting those kinds of standards or the kinds of rules or like different things, like that Right. So if you had, I think, the right, the right like a leadership, like like you need leaders to guide people, that that that is just like, um, like in general what's going on, you know, yeah, just I think think I don't know if you want to call it the issue or just the reality is that there there's just leaders that are guiding, not those types of like things that you're talking about you know well they are.

Eldar: 49:51

They're just probably not as popular, they're not as marketed well, yeah, that.

Toliy: 49:55

Well. Well, the that's what I'm saying the majority of leaders are are not leading the right things. And then the, the, the tadpoles, like you call it they're just following the wrong things. But if they were in better hands collectively, I think people would do a lot more and they would realize they have a lot more potential and they would realize that like there's other more important things about their lives and just like the reality of things you know, but they're like misguided, like almost you know.

Toliy: 50:28

So you're like what are you going to get mad at?

Eldar: 50:31

Yeah, this is true, you know. So what should Mr Nice Guy do right now? Drop the act or no, or keep up with it.

Mike: 50:44

Eat more shit, eat more shit till you get fed up. That seems to be the most effective way in the current form that you know, the Mr Nice Guy is yeah. I guess you gotta take a stance against the non-truth, and the faster you get to that, then you could change their view and go to the side of the truth. You know, cause what he's doing is living in non-truth, right, yeah, um, so you got to keep eating more shit.

Mike: 51:23

Get more get fucked more and then, uh, then, when you reach that place where you have a choice to, you know, bounce back and then align with the truth, then you don't need to be the nice guy. You can, you know, give up the ash so you're gonna be the right guy you're gonna be the right guy.

Toliy: 51:41

Yeah, what one of the sickest phenomenons, I think, is that like people can collectively want um their use of a word for the same thing right, and they could like, for example, like. Like people collectively, I would say everybody, or for the most part, let's just say everybody, they want happiness, that word happiness, or love right, or love right, um, and everybody can universally use that word like, that's like an understanding one another yeah, like, yeah, you want happiness.

Toliy: 52:14

Yeah, the nice guy wants happiness. Someone else wants happiness, right. Yeah, everybody guy wants happiness. Someone else wants happiness, right, everybody still wants happiness, right. Um, so, like and and and, and.

Toliy: 52:24

Everybody kind of has maybe a vision as to what that looks like, and it could be similar ones or it could be like, not similar things. It could be like yeah, I want, you know, a lot of money and like, a good big family. You know I want some health. You know, like you know family. You know I want some health. You know. Like you know you might want all those same things too and some other things, right, but like, everybody still wants this thing, right.

Toliy: 52:45

But the interesting thing is that, like you could all want the same things, but everybody has different ideas as to like how, what, what does it look like, what kind of path or actions it looks like to get to what you think that word means Right, and to me, the most phenomenal thing about all of it is that, um, if you're wrong about like what it actually takes to get there, or like or like, like what the right actions are, which most people are, you're never going to get there, and that's for sure, never yeah, whoa, yeah, like, for example, if you're again. Thesis, like everybody is that I want to be happy, right, yeah. And your thesis is that, like, you're going to get happy through getting rich. That is like your laser focus, right. No amount of money will ever make you receive the feeling that you have in your mind before you got rich and you have that vision yeah, because it's an incorrect premise yeah, but the feeling, I think, is similar for everybody, of happiness.

Toliy: 53:54

You know, okay, like everybody wants these kind of good things, right, and if you start listing those things out, yeah, they're gonna probably list things that people are like agreeable with. Oh, like you know, I want to make a really good, comfortable income. Okay, like, we all want that, right, like, yeah, right, like that, that's not like a crazy thing. Right, you might want health. You know, okay, who's like nah, I'm fine with being unhealthy. You know, yeah, like who actually breaks down something that like, if you sit down in a group and you talk about these things, everyone's gonna want relatively the same thing so are you saying then?

Toliy: 54:26

then the words like happiness almost, are misleading and misguiding the society the way we use them well, yes, yes, because everybody uses the same word to describe fucking different to describe different things and everybody has different understandings as to not not what it is almost, but what steps are needed to get there.

Eldar: 54:46

Okay, how about this? Let me give you, let me try to help this audience out. All right, fuck it. Now you ban the word happiness from us. The fuck. What should we? Should we do? You know what I mean? How about this? How about something more practical? And if this was universal? That instead of the word happiness? Right, we ask this out, we're going to use this, we're going to describe this. I would like to smile genuinely, smile more often or permanently. How does that work? Okay, and you know what I'm talking about. When it comes to smile, I'm not just talking about that fake smile. Again, guys, not the nice guy. Smile, genuine smile when you're enjoying your company, you know you're laughing, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, right, everybody kind of can't get on the same page with this, or no, no, no, still.

Toliy: 55:43

No, it's not robust enough.

Mike: 55:47

You're asking for.

Eldar: 55:50

I'm trying to cure our problem with the word happiness.

Mike: 55:53

Right it's not, I don't think it's, I don't know. Why do you think it's a cure? Well, because he's saying look it's not, I don't think it's, I don't know why. Why do you think it's a cure?

Eldar: 56:00

well, because he's saying look, it's misleading, we define it, we all use it. Any word you'll use it'll be misleading. Well, I'm not using the word here, I'm saying the action of smiling more often. More frequently for long periods of time equates to, let's just say, happiness the outwardly expression can never hide the internal no, no, no, I'm not saying that, it's just a fake smile, mike no, he's saying like to actually get that yeah, you know what?

Eldar: 56:31

me and you are on the same page, though, like when you're genuinely smiling, laughing with joy. I'm talking about that real one. I'm not talking about something fake or whatever Sure. So let's just remove happiness and say we want to do more of that because that will equal to. But how would you get that?

Mike: 56:45

without doing.

Eldar: 56:47

No, but does me, removing the word happiness and exchanging it for more smiles helps our cause or helps people to get on the same page more or no? I don't think so why not?

Mike: 57:00

well, because the only true way to be happier, to be smiling, is to have a good reason for it, to have a genuine reason for it. Okay, and without tapping into the things, but isn't that?

Eldar: 57:12

what's given us a little bit more of a better conversation, because then I'm gonna say, okay, cool, like, or then I guess maybe a person can also say, no, like, give me a lot of money and I'll smile a lot. You know what?

Mike: 57:22

I mean, right, like those things, that where you're talking about the genuine smile, yeah, possibly those moments when you're tapping into the truth, right, well, yeah, but it's hard to replicate because you have so many things you believe about life. Well, no, that's the, that's the thing, that's what.

Eldar: 57:36

I'm saying, If the measurement was smiles right and we were able to put somebody on camera for 24-7. And you can see the genuine smiles that are happening, You're recording those things right. If the person said okay, on this day I've smiled for 7 to 10 minutes. My goal is to smile a little bit more, right, I'd like to get that to be an hour a day, let's just say and then two hours and three hours and stuff like that. So we kind of have a more of a measuring stick against what we're going against, versus just saying the word I want to be more happy. You know what I'm saying, Can't we?

Eldar: 58:10

then, have a more of an honest conversation if we had an actual action behind.

Toliy: 58:15

We could, but the issue is that when someone talks about happiness, they talk about a lot of things that all encompass that.

Eldar: 58:25

It's a very diverse it's a mumbo-jumbo, fucking pot of.

Toliy: 58:28

Happiness involves what Good relationships, love, money, health, we decided that that's not the truth.

Eldar: 58:36

We decided that the word not the truth, right? We decided that the word happiness is mumbo-jumbo. What would be a better word to describe our internal being, right Well-being, let's just say, and an action of smiling internal smiling or external smiling can be the indicator of that which we're trying to achieve or accomplish, but I think it would take a lot for people to buy into that. Okay, fine, fine, of course it's going to take a lot. Is it more of a correct path to start redefining things that we're talking about? Will this help us to get on the same?

Toliy: 59:09

page a little bit better.

Eldar: 59:11

No, Mike's saying no.

Toliy: 59:13

Well, no, if you could actually implement that, yes, okay, but Mike's saying no.

Eldar: 59:17

Yeah, why, mike? Why do you disagree with this?

Mike: 59:21

Because I just maybe I'm not understanding it. But how can you like if you're internally not, if you're internally actually genuinely happy, right then you smile, but if internally you're not, why would you be smiling?

Toliy: 59:37

No, I think he's. He's misunderstanding what. What you said? Okay, internally you're not. Why would you be smiling? No, I think he's. He's misunderstanding what. What?

Eldar: 59:39

you say in your words how you understand what I'm saying um no, he.

Toliy: 59:44

So. He's not talking about a scenario where, like, people are believing one thing, but you're telling them a different thing. He's not saying that okay, so right he's saying an actual world where people actually do. Um, instead of like having goals around happiness, they have goals around smiling right or like, or like or like laughing right okay, would that be a more like a?

Toliy: 1:00:06

measuring stick of you know a better measuring stick than than a world where people exist where their measuring stick is this word, happiness, which is more of just like a very vague, wide variety of different things. And I'm saying, if you can be in that kind of world, then yes, because what he's basically saying, instead of using one word that encompasses a lot of different things, you use one word that is very specific you can't fake this action.

Toliy: 1:00:34

That's not like refutable, or that's not like a wide variety of different things, like it's a one thing because plenty of people like like a mom, your dad, right.

Eldar: 1:00:43

They go like no, we're happy, our relationship is perfectly, perfectly normal. That's their testament of what their understanding of happiness is. Right, we don't have a camera on him, that actually he's fucking frowning all day long and my mom is fucking.

Mike: 1:00:55

So you're trying to use the use the smiling as like a measuring stick. Is that what you're saying?

Toliy: 1:00:57

Yes, what I'm saying is if people bought into, if you had a world where people buy into, that, for example.

Mike: 1:01:04

Yeah, but how? Yeah, I don't think so. It's just, you're just replacing one thing for another. No, no, no, nothing fundamentally changing.

Toliy: 1:01:11

No, no, no, but he's replacing one specific thing versus a wide variety of different things I'm saying that.

Eldar: 1:01:18

Why do you genuinely smile?

Mike: 1:01:21

because they're happy. Right? This is what I'm saying. So people can say they're happy and they can smile, but no you can't just say it and smile.

Eldar: 1:01:29

You have to feel it right. So what I'm saying is that the expression of of your happiness internal is a, is a physical manifestation of a smile or laughter.

Mike: 1:01:39

Yeah, but the thing is, the actions, or whatever you need to do in order to smile more, and the actions you need to do, whatever you need to do to be happy or to use that word, happy they're not, they're the same. No, how Well, I'm saying, how are they no?

Eldar: 1:01:55

no, no, no, no. No.

Mike: 1:01:56

See, I think that with my suggestion, here To mean it in the true sense of happiness and the true sense of smile. They're the same thing to me.

Eldar: 1:02:04

Yeah, but the way we use the term happiness is incorrect. That's the thing A lot of people will say I'm happy, you're happy, everybody's happy, but nobody's actually happy. You know what I say? It, and that's a testament. So, people are faking their happiness 100%.

Toliy: 1:02:17

Well, yeah, most people are.

Mike: 1:02:20

Okay, and you're saying people can't fake a smile and most people are misunderstanding the word happiness in the first place.

Eldar: 1:02:23

You cannot, no, you cannot fake a genuine smile, you cannot.

Mike: 1:02:25

That I agree with you. But how about a fake? How can you fake a fake smile?

Eldar: 1:02:31

I don't think people are walking around fake smiling. You don't think so? I don't think so. I don't think so, like on a daily basis.

Mike: 1:02:41

I don't think you can just, if you're not happy you don't go around just like so then people just will smile much less.

Eldar: 1:02:44

No, I think that it's going to be a more of an accurate representation of where you stand.

Toliy: 1:02:48

No but like the nice guy smiles a lot.

Eldar: 1:02:51

Well, what I'm saying is that the actual, genuine smile, actual genuine smile, not the fake ones again, let's try to try to. You know, I know the fucking you can definitely trick the shit is that the actual, genuine smile, actual genuine smile, not the fake ones. Again, let's try to. You know, I know the fucking, you can definitely trick the shit. You know what I mean. If you wanted to put up an act, you can. I'm saying that if you didn't put up an act, right, yeah. If you you're by yourself, right, nobody's around you, and we can clearly see the moments of elation or whatever it is that you're experiencing and we can record that. Let's just say, I don't know how, you know, the eyes go squinty, smile goes up or whatever. You know, whatever pauses you have, you cannot fake those things, yeah, but what causes you to smile?

Mike: 1:03:29

Why are you smiling? Well, good moments, or whatever, but what are the good moments?

Eldar: 1:03:32

What is that? It could be laughter. I. What is that? It could be laughter. I mean joke. It could be realization. It can be insight. Pursue for truth.

Mike: 1:03:45

Yeah, see when you're talking about all those things they're not like.

Eldar: 1:03:50

What I'm saying is that I'm trying to remove this vague thing of happiness that he's talking about right vague thing of happiness that he's talking about right like he proposes dilemma, like look, you know, the whole society in this world is using the term happiness to describe something very subjective for every single person, and I think we're all on different pages here and that is why we live out the lives that we do live out. One person says, yeah, I'm gonna be happy by making all this money or whatever little that he knows that he's not going to be happy at all. You know what I'm saying. I'm trying to figure out what terminology, what can we substitute from happiness right to indicate and get on the same page of what we're actually talking about. And I think it's much harder to fake walking around and just smiling all day long. You know what I mean. Just, it's very unnatural.

Mike: 1:04:33

You know what I mean To me at least Maybe to some people. They're better at it than I am For sure I think faking a smile is unnatural, for sure.

Eldar: 1:04:40

Yeah, you know what I mean. You can kind of see it, you can kind of feel it too. So that's what I'm saying. Can that be of a better term or action that gets us a little bit closer to understanding? What is it that we're after? Because I think we are after more smiles. No, no. Yeah. So I'm not sure what you disagree. Did I explain?

Mike: 1:05:05

that correctly? Yeah, you did explain that. I still don't agree. You still don't agree. Yeah, maybe. I don't understand it though.

Eldar: 1:05:11

But which part of it that you don't agree or don't understand?

Mike: 1:05:16

You don't want people to use the word happiness when they don't understand what it means, right? You want to get away from that. Is that correct?

Eldar: 1:05:26

The way it's totally described is that, yes, right now, we use the word happiness to describe many things that actually are not. And what does true happiness look like? You know? Well, that's the thing. I don't think people have the consensus to be able to use that term correctly.

Mike: 1:05:39

Sure, I agree, I agree, but then what you're saying?

Eldar: 1:05:41

But we have a consensus of smile. I wanted to see whether or not it can substitute, because smile is maybe closer to universally being true than the word happiness. No.

Toliy: 1:05:54

Is it? Well, I think it's a less confusing term. There you go For sure, because happiness can be 10 different things, defined in 10 different ways. Smiling is Again. If we agree that the particular action just means smiling, then there's no confusion there. Yeah.

Eldar: 1:06:18

This is what I'm saying. Yeah, so can we use that as a measuring thing or going forward for people to be able to? Okay, cool, I just want to smile more and that be the kind of the, the goal, the measuring stick, the KPI, you know, when it comes to living a more fulfilled, happy life. Yeah, yeah, but will that spark a better conversation, a more?

Toliy: 1:06:46

it will, but it will, it will. But the issue is that the buyers into happiness are not going to want to subscribe to this well, now you're talking about something else. Now you're saying that it's going to help weed out those individuals yeah, because you're you're offering again not like a very sexy thing, that's interesting. Yeah, because you're offering again not like a very sexy thing, that's interesting.

Eldar: 1:07:09

So then, we fucking do use these fucking vague words for a fucking reason. It's a fucking cover-up, bro.

Toliy: 1:07:15

Well being vague is generally good for people that are not seeking truth. Okay.

Toliy: 1:07:23

That is for sure, very good, because there's no accountability in it. There's no need for understanding of it. Definitions yeah, no, no, like. There's, for example, people that are like angry, and they and they act in accordance. They're like yo, everything is fucked up, everything is bad Right, and maybe when you have a conversation with them, you have to remind them of like, good Right. And then you have the opposite spectrum. That people will be like no, like, what do you mean? I'm happy, right.

Toliy: 1:07:56

Maybe, with those people. You need them to give them a little dose of the opposite. Well tell me how are you happy? Yeah, what are you happy about? Yeah, you have genuine relationships with your family and friends. You have a healthy lifestyle that you're proud of. Is it honest? Yeah, are you honest? Yeah, do you do right by people Like you start going into that kind of bag, you quickly find out that those people are going to try to distance themselves as far away from you as possible.

Eldar: 1:08:29

Because you are attacking their understanding of happiness.

Toliy: 1:08:33

You're turning their vague world into a very specific one.

Eldar: 1:08:36

And that's no good.

Toliy: 1:08:38

Which they want nothing. A part of Interesting interesting.

Eldar: 1:08:43

That's why that person is always the bad person yeah, my proposition is leading towards defining more specific, and the more specific you get, the more people you upset, because the people that are hiding, they like to use vague terms, like happiness, like love, to describe certain phenomenon that actually is not describable by those words at all. It's just whatever. Yeah, it's open-ended kind of thing, right, what I'm trying to do and maybe, maybe, smiling is not the best way to describe what I'm trying to get to, right, to narrow it down and kind of like really pigeonhole the happy state, so-called. So what we're saying is that, like, look, those people are going to be very upset that if you're trying to describe yeah.

Eldar: 1:09:51

I was always a proponent for being able to define terms to their molecular level, just to get on the same page of understanding of what we're actually talking about, because otherwise it's very difficult to have conversations. Um, you know, but it sounds like if that's difficult, if that's, you know, hard for the people that are lazy and stuff like that, uh, if you start substituting that word, like, like happiness, let's just say the popular word of happiness with something like an actual, actionable, observable, definitive action of how you are reacting to the world, like smiling or frowning, let's just say, if those were the two, uh, would be a little bit more of an accurate representation.

Toliy: 1:10:34

But yeah, but I also think the non-vagnus is uh, maybe the vagueness is the buffer of pain tolerance. The vagueness is the buffer of pain tolerance.

Eldar: 1:10:42

The vagueness is the buffer of pain tolerance. Okay, like being vague.

Toliy: 1:10:48

When you have these little downfalls and things not going away. Not that it's necessarily an out. It's an out for the moment because there's nothing specific and the pain level in turn is not as large. But if you're talking about living in a specific world. You're talking about living in a very painful world.

Eldar: 1:11:09

Also for the moment.

Toliy: 1:11:10

Yes. Because you have a very specific thing that you're talking about. Yeah, it's a very black and white thing. Yeah.

Eldar: 1:11:16

Yeah, I get it, I get it you could talk about any subject like anything right.

Toliy: 1:11:21

You could talk about any subject like anything right but the alignment with, like, the truth and reality, and actually have the ability to know exactly what's actually going on right, like it all comes down to that, like it'll always, I feel, like, go back to that it's made that way right by design yeah it's meant that way, right, by design.

Eldar: 1:11:44

Yeah, it's meant to be. You're saying Okay. Well, that brings some comfort, I guess, to some people who are into that kind of shit. Yeah, you know.

Toliy: 1:11:54

Yeah, but but I guess, to answer your question at the beginning, I definitely think that the nice guy is probably a lot of it again, is rooted in loneliness and like it's a good indicator not aligning with the truth.

Eldar: 1:12:08

You know those kinds of things, yeah the necessity of the nice guy right almost the actions that the nice guy takes are not the right ones.

Toliy: 1:12:18

Yeah, to begin with. Yeah, so they're bound to get not the right results that they're looking for or maybe thinking about or envisioning. Okay.

Eldar: 1:12:28

So anything else you answered my question, then I have nothing about this question.

Toliy: 1:12:34

Yeah. Yeah, it's like I mean we were obviously joking about it before. But for example, like all the actions that would benefit, for example, like like Tom, they're all perceived as bad things, right? Yeah like the way that they're understood or perceived, are the wrong things. They could be the right actions for the person. You're right.

Eldar: 1:13:02

It's an example of how you didn't want to go to actions for the person. You're right. It's an example of how you didn't want to go to work out at night, right? You don't know, but they're perceived as bad initially.

Eldar: 1:13:13

Okay, that's a good point, yeah, but, like you said, I think that it's an important point to make again, that if we are making conclusions about the world in our lives and today when we were walking you, we talked about that you are gonna live those conclusions out up until you start asking questions and say, okay, something's wrong here and I don't like this.

Eldar: 1:13:40

Then you're gonna start re-examining and then you're like, okay, let me remove those previous conclusions that I made about myself, about my life, so I can feel better. So you know, the cycle is a cycle and, like you said, if you need more suffering, then you have to suffer more in order to come to finally redefine some of the conclusions you made about your world and yourself. So the conclusion is that you know my conclusion, at least to this is that everything is where it's supposed to be. It can't be any other way, even though the chaos that we see in the world let's just say, through social media right now, it is all where it's supposed to be Right is all where it's supposed to be Right. It's not like this oh shit, this is a random chaos and this is a random occurrence. No, it's exactly where it's supposed to be and how it's going right now.

Mike: 1:14:35

Yeah, I don't think. Why did you ever feel like where we are as people, as individuals or as society is not exactly what we're supposed to be?

Eldar: 1:14:49

not that I not that it's, not it's, but sometimes you kind of sometimes it's shocking. It's shocking or it's like it's like you want to judge. You like wait what? Like we're here, why are we here? You know what I mean. For the moment, your mind cannot fathom or understand, like, what the fuck is going on, right, but then, like, as you start sitting down and discussing somebody's things that we talk about, oh, this is fucking.

Mike: 1:15:12

This is the world and this is completely fine, but I guess the sequence of events right is the right thought, right speech, right action or not right. But let you say thoughts, speech and then actions, right. So obviously the way that people are speaking and then acting is all rooted into what they believe and how they think. Yeah, you know, yeah. So how it's like uh, if you like, you think you want to be a fucking, if you want to try your best, and you in your head you're telling yourself you want to do the, do the right thing at all times. Right, live in accordance with the truth, but then you're speaking in opposition to that or, in your acting, opposite to that. How does that make sense? You know, yeah, yeah so. But if you're the opposite, then you're doing everything in line like correct and then you have that internal happiness that we're talking about.

Eldar: 1:16:00

then you're at peace, right? You smiling internally and you're grateful, and all this other good stuff that comes with aligning yourself with the true nature of reality, oh yeah.

Mike: 1:16:08

With the truth, with the truth.

Eldar: 1:16:10

With the truth, yeah yeah, which is, you know, like I said, true nature of reality. You've seen things for what they are.

Toliy: 1:16:15

That's the truth, and then that kind of flows and that becomes you and you're part of it, and you don't have any incongruence or any kind of disparity, so you are feeling good yeah, I, I just feel like one of the things I see in in in a in general as a society, and this is and this is something that that I I see from like all the different people that are actually trying to what their understanding is to create good, positive change.

Toliy: 1:16:48

But I feel like the issue with that is that everyone's trying to, they're very narrow-minded but they're very zoomed in on a particular thing, and everybody's zoomed in on their own particular thing, but the root of all these things go back to like the same place and like, for example, like people are trying to like end racism, or like solve world hunger, or like, um, what are some other causes? Abortion, yeah, like causes. Abortion, yeah, like maybe work on particular laws, right, or like and like, uh, uh, I don't know, human trafficking. Human trafficking like very specific causes, right, all kinds of all kinds of hates and bad things trying to make them good, and there's a lot of people within each of those fields that like specialize in that right yeah yeah, but what they're?

Toliy: 1:17:45

climate change, yeah, yeah, climate, yeah, all kinds of things again. Right, but yeah, I don't think, I don't know. Yeah, like anti, uh, what's it called? The semitism? Right, yeah, people who don't like jews, for example, right, yeah, they're trying to work on that kind of initiative, right, yeah, muslims, everybody, right, yeah, um you have the blm movement politics and the thing is that everyone's branched off onto all of these, zeroed in things.

Toliy: 1:18:13

When all of these people, if they were, for example, to all work on like the same thing, like the fundamentals of a person and like being a good person and having, like learning, like good for example, things like that, it would be the same t, it would be the same teachings for everything, and to me there would be a more of a um, a paradoxical like faster change than like the focus on all of these individual things Because it would almost naturally bleed into those, like, for example, you're not trying to like the BLM movement is not.

Toliy: 1:18:52

Instead of having a BLM movement and a racism movement and a this movement and that movement, everybody has a movement to. Let's say, end hate, for example, yeah, educate, what does that come with? That comes relatively with all the same. Let's say, like end hate, for example, yeah, right, right, like on that, right, when. What does that come come with? Right, yeah, that comes relatively all the same. Things that affect all of these specified things. A hundred percent Right.

Eldar: 1:19:12

Yeah, um, it's the same. It's under that umbrella.

Toliy: 1:19:14

Yes, but the issue is that thing.

Toliy: 1:19:19

but they're still all divided because they're all only zoomed in on their individual thing and they're only whatever hits home for them yeah, and and like I, I just feel like with all of these issues, it's like nothing's ever going to get accomplished in the speed that these people are kind of like envisioning it, because people are not going back to like the basics of being like a good person, of understanding what's going on, of like getting the right education and doing all of that. Everyone's just trying to put these like band-aids on all of these different issues and trying to be very focused on like, on, on, on, like fixing them.

Eldar: 1:19:58

Or attached.

Toliy: 1:19:59

Yeah, versus, have like a united front on just like teaching the fundamentals of like. Yeah, what does it mean to be a good person? Yeah, for example. Yeah, versus, have like a united front on just like teaching the fundamentals of like. Yeah, what does it mean to be a good person?

Eldar: 1:20:06

Yeah.

Toliy: 1:20:07

For example.

Eldar: 1:20:08

Yeah, which applies to everyone. Yeah, versus like stop racism. Yeah.

Toliy: 1:20:11

So they devote their lives to educating people on racism, racism only Right, which to me is like a very narrow minded.

Eldar: 1:20:18

And then you get the Tommies right who just want to like hey, can you invite your black friends so I can meet them. You know and like get a little kiss and feel their hair. See how their hair feels.

Toliy: 1:20:26

Yeah, yeah, like it's a very narrow-minded view that does not cover everything else. Yeah, but then everything else is what solves these kinds of things. Yeah, these things are irrelevant almost. Like what is racism, for example. It's a lack of education?

Eldar: 1:20:40

Yeah, it's a lack of education. Yeah, yeah, yeah, anger hate, right, what is?

Toliy: 1:20:44

it. It's a lack of education. You don't understand something.

Eldar: 1:20:47

Yeah, yeah. What is like? Yeah, same thing as like human trafficking.

Toliy: 1:20:51

Yes, unless you believe that people are supposed to be angry and hateful and racist. Yeah, is that what these people believe?

Eldar: 1:20:57

No, no, they believe that, like this is not supposed to be right. Yeah, and we need to fix this. Yeah, so the society's far away from this or no?

Toliy: 1:21:14

oh yeah, I mean it's what?

Eldar: 1:21:15

what are you serious? Yeah, it's why you this outlook.

Toliy: 1:21:17

That's a crazy optimistic, uh, pessimistic outlook again like I, I didn't realize that like there's like survival of the fittest that exists on that level, because when it's always taught, like I guess in the schools or like the way that I understood it always in schools, was like everybody saw that one video of all those like little, like lizards fucking, fucking running on that island right the Galapagos, or whatever you all see that one video it's a sick.

Eldar: 1:21:45

I don't know if you've seen it right with the snakes.

Toliy: 1:21:48

I think so, yeah, and it's like a survival of the fittest like thing, and I always thought about it only from like a physical standpoint, like an evolutionary standpoint, but never as like a mental one standpoint right, well as what Mr Nice Guy would say I appreciate you guys.

Eldar: 1:22:04

Standpoint, but never as like a mental one. Standpoint yeah Right, Well as what Mr Nice Guy would say I appreciate you guys.

Toliy: 1:22:10

Like what if I turn around that person at Chipotle and I was like what the fuck do you really appreciate about this guy? Like what are?

Eldar: 1:22:16

you even saying, yeah, you don't give a fuck about him.

Toliy: 1:22:18

What are you appreciating him for? For fucking pouring cheese into your bowl. This is what you appreciate him. Yeah, you actually appreciate him yeah, he did his job.

Eldar: 1:22:31

Maybe he does, maybe he's really in tune. No, maybe he has like this thing of appreciation about the world think about this?

Toliy: 1:22:37

how about this? I'm gonna make you laugh really hard. Right now, we're sitting there and we're looking at this fucking queso as disgusting, right? Yeah, this person behind this is appreciating the person.

Eldar: 1:22:51

Yes, for putting this into the bowl. It's true it looks disgusting.

Toliy: 1:22:56

We made a joke about disgusting to us yeah we're like oh yeah, we don't want this nasty right yeah the person behind us is appreciative of the other person for pouring into his shit. That's true. What a paradox. What a conundrum. What if we told them? I appreciate you for not putting that in there. That shit looks nasty, looks nasty. That's bad. Can we be appreciative of that?

Eldar: 1:23:21

You know I don't have any final thoughts. I said my final thoughts, you guys have any final thoughts.

Toliy: 1:23:26

Today to me was like a all over the place kind of like what I thought.

Eldar: 1:23:29

It was actually zeroed in on something.

Toliy: 1:23:31

This was actually very good we talked about so many different things and I feel like it's like a.

Eldar: 1:23:35

I think that we fucking, I think we got somewhere really well, to me at least. But you know, especially because, like you confirmed to me that actually the Mr Nice guy is most likely is working out of insecurity and probably loneliness, right To connect somehow, to hang on to something. So he is putting on this act. Almost Right, because a genuine guy would never do that, right, yeah, right, I think I mean what's more realistic, right? Is it just people just walking around fucking happy-go-lucky all day long? It's fucking bullshit, it's not true. You know what I'm saying? Most of our existence is a little bit tough on a day-to-day basis, right? So a nice guy should be fucking extinct and should not be of existence completely.

Eldar: 1:24:24

I think we have a lot more honest conversations if we fucking were genuinely telling ourselves like, no, I'm actually not having a good day. And this is why you know, when people ask you, oh, how are you doing? Yeah, I'm good, everything's good. No, motherfucker, shit's fucked, your shit is fucked up. And you're like, oh shit, your shit's fucked up, what happened fucked up. And you're like, oh shit, your shit's fucked up. What happened? Right, so you can have those conversations. But because we don't do that, we kind of accustom ourselves that you know this is the social norms and social structures that we have to go by and also like if I say the nice things, they're gonna appreciate me more and shit. And like get that moment of fucking dopamine fix for the moment because he appreciates me. For fuck's sake, you're just like a cheap hooker of fucking nice sayings and nice things. You know that's complete bollocks.

Toliy: 1:25:11

Yeah. You know, yeah, but, but. But again, it's also hard to separate it all because, like, for example, like you go into different things where, like, people have jobs and part of the job of defaulting is usually to be a nice guy why, like for example like why not be the right guy again? Like for example, like you go to like a, like a good restaurant, right, everyone's real nice in there yeah, okay overly nice in there. Why?

Eldar: 1:25:45

because you're a customer well, sure there's an experience that they're trying to uphold yeah, they're trying to uphold an experience right because, yeah, the experience well, like, if you're a mechanic at some shop or whatever, like I don't think that's still the case right, like the job of a mechanic is more so isolated to like yo fix my car, like I have a problem with my brakes, and that's the only thing that I'm looking for. I'm not looking to come in and get a smile from you. I need you to fix my brakes. I don't want him to be fucking smiling at me. I want him to be serious about his job and fix my brakes so I don't fucking crash my car and hurt myself. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, so like, let's not kid around here. You know, yeah, I'll trade fake smiles For expertise any day. You know I want you to be nasty to me, but do the job right. Yeah, or like you go to like the Italian like sandwich deli, you know Like. Okay.

Eldar: 1:26:37

Yeah, like when sometimes the servers Are nasty or whatever, but the food is really good.

Toliy: 1:26:40

No, no, no, no. You go to like the Italian sandwich place, right, nasty or whatever, but the food is really good. No, no, no, no. You go to like the italian sandwich place, right? People in there are very nice, very friendly, very personable, right? Yeah, they're acting a particular way when they don't actually know you yeah yeah, like they, they, they almost like, create these like mini, like again, like the ones that are like these local, italian, for example, like delis people have like what they feel are actual relationships with these people.

Eldar: 1:27:08

You like those though. No, those touches it helps you get what you want. No, they're definitely funny. They're funny, you know. Yeah, yeah, we're all acting, we're all kind of acting In accordance to it. Yeah, but all acting, we all kind of acting in accordance to it. But the funny thing is the happiness is between the lines right, of being real, of being polarizing, sometimes being blunt, being truthful, standing on your truth you know, and sometimes you have to stand in it alone.

Eldar: 1:27:43

You know if you're misunderstood or whatever. So, mr Nice Guy, if you're listening, you're probably Mr Nice Guy because you're lonely or insecure. So suck it, mike.

Mike: 1:28:01

Final thoughts no, I don't have any. I think you guys said it. It's a. Definitely sounds like the core of it totally.

Eldar: 1:28:14

are you guilty of being a Mr Nice Guy? Are you a part time actor without telling us?

Toliy: 1:28:19

at times yeah at times.

Eldar: 1:28:20

Yeah, how is this conversation going to help you going forward?

Toliy: 1:28:26

Well.

Eldar: 1:28:26

Raise awareness right.

Toliy: 1:28:27

Raise awareness, yeah.

Eldar: 1:28:29

You're not ready to throw them off the building yet.

Toliy: 1:28:31

I don't think anyone is without understanding.

Eldar: 1:28:34

Okay, fair enough, that's it, or you have something else?

Toliy: 1:28:40

No, I mean, Did we do a good job? I think we confused a lot of people, really Is that a good thing or a bad thing For them?

Eldar: 1:28:47

it's a good thing, for them it's a good thing, but for us it's bad. No, no, I think for us it's good too, okay.

Toliy: 1:28:57

Yeah, maybe I would say that um, if you are the like the Mr Nice guy, right, for example? Um, if you are the like the mr nice guy right, for example? Um, maybe, if you think about what's going to happen if you don't be nice in this kind of way that you are being nice like what, what will change?

Toliy: 1:29:15

yeah oftentimes I think, like if you ask yourself that question and you actually like lay it laid out, like oh, maybe my relationship with x person is going to be different, or like this is going to be different, right, if you're not ready, I guess, to like address those different things or relationships, then you should probably continue being the nice guy okay for as long as you can, for I mean as long as you are aren't willing to to put things on the line as long as, for as long as you are under the impression that it's serving you right yeah, for this identity, yeah, okay that's fair.

Eldar: 1:29:53

All right, thank you. This was great. Thanks for watching you, thank you.