S2 E11 TRANSCRIPT
NATURALISM AND BIBLICAL CREATION COMPARED—PART 3
INTRODUCTION
Hello everyone and welcome to Spirit-Led Hope. My name is Glenn Erichsen, and in this episode, we are looking at:
NATURALISM AND BIBLICAL CREATION COMPARED—PART 3
In this episode, we are continuing to build an imaginary chart that we started in Episodes 9 and 10. I encourage you to listen to those episodes if you have not already done so.
On the left of our chart, we have the Biblical account of the days of Creation, and on the right side, we have the corresponding scientific account. As a reminder, here we are mainly concerned with the sequence of events. In other words, we are looking at the order in which the Bible says the universe and life were created and comparing it to the order presented by naturalistic science.
In the last episode we looked at Day One, and then I got sidetracked talking about how Christians may experience division in their interpretation of Genesis. I pointed out that Christians must walk in grace when discussing this topic. In this episode I am going to try and march through the days of Creation more quickly, but I will still point out some of the differing viewpoints among Christians.
As a side note, I do not want to give the idea that Christians are divided and that naturalistic scientists are in perfect unity. That is not the case. In fact, as I have pointed out in prior episodes, scientific inquiry lends itself to an ongoing debate as more data comes in. There are many differing scientific theories about the origin of the universe and life, and I have been presenting what seems to be the most currently accepted sequence, but there are many variations.
DAY TWO
All right, let us look at Day Two. Remember that Day One ended with the Earth covered in water, and now, in Genesis 1:6-8, let us read what comes next.
And God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. And God called the expanse Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.
Genesis 1:6-8
Most Christians agree on what happened the second day. From these verses, we see that water is no longer just on the earth, but there is a separation which leaves some water on the earth, and other water above the earth. This would mean there is now water in the atmosphere, causing clouds to form, which is why Day 2 is often said to be the day on which God made the sky.
Because of the way the verses refer to Heaven, some Christians interpret this to mean that some of the water went beyond the atmosphere and into outer space.
Well, let us summarize this in our chart under the heading, “Day Two.” If we list the most accepted Christian viewpoints, we have two bullet points for Day Two.
· There was a separation of the waters.
· There is now water on earth and in the sky.
To summarize the naturalistic viewpoint for Day Two, I will refer to what we talked about in Episodes 6 and 7. Here, on the right side of our imaginary chart, we will have 4 bullet points as follows:
· About 3.8 billion years ago, the oceans formed.
· There was a separation of liquid water and water vapor.
· Steam vapor entered the atmosphere.
· By some unknown process, there was the start of life from non-life.
Again, I took those four points from Episodes 6 and 7.
DAY TWO COMPARISON
If we look at our chart for Day Two, we see there is a remarkable agreement between the Biblical account and the naturalistic one. Other than the mention of God, the Biblical terminology could easily be used to summarize the naturalistic account. In fact, the main difference is that the naturalistic account mentions life. The reason I mentioned life on Day Two for naturalism is because the scientific evidence indicates that life started very soon after the formation of the earth.
But I want us to remember what that life was like. As you may recall from Episode 7, the first life according to naturalism was tiny. Tiny as in microscopic.
The reason I mention this is because we will soon see on Day Three, that the Creation account mentions vegetation, life that is large enough to be seen. When we read the Genesis account, we must constantly remind ourselves that technology was not available to the people who first heard Genesis.
And this undoubtedly affected what was included and not included in the verses we read. If you are worried, or if you are critical, because the Genesis account does not mention microscopic bacteria, then realize that it makes perfect sense for the Bible not to mention life invisible to the naked eye. Also, keep in mind that the Hebrew words used for plants and animals in Genesis can be difficult to translate…and this does come into play in later verses.
DAY THREE
Let us now look at Day Three. Here is what it says in Genesis 1:9-13:
And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so. God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
And God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth.” And it was so. The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.
Genesis 1:9-13
As we make our virtual chart, we will now label the next section, “Day Three.” According to Scripture, a lot happens on the third day. We saw on the second day that the whole Earth was still covered with water. But on the third day, the water is gathered into one place and land is in one location. After the dry land appears, God commands the earth to “sprout vegetation” and we read an interesting expression where the earth, in response to God, “brings forth vegetation.”
Now there are some debates within the Christian community about the nuances of what it means for the earth to “bring forth” vegetation. I am not going to go into those now because Christians agree that God is the initiator of plant life. Interestingly, we will see that same expression on Day Six where the earth “brings forth” some of the animals.
We also see on the third day that Genesis, in describing these forms of vegetation, explicitly says that these plants yield seed according to their own kind. And this seems to indicate that a fruit tree with one kind of fruit is going to continue producing that one kind of fruit. The implication here is that God is supernaturally responsible for the variety of vegetation that we see. Whether or not God used natural processes, which are hinted at by that expression “the earth brings forth,” all of that is up for discussion.
On the left side of our chart, let us list four bullet points that summarize the Biblical account of Creation on the third day.
· Dry land appears.
· Land is in one place, and water in another.
· By God’s command, the “earth brings forth” vegetation and plants yielding seed.
· Plants yield seed according to their kind.
Let us now summarize the bullet points that will be on the right side of our chart for naturalism. Now here again, I am referring to things we discussed in Episodes 6 and 7. In Episode 6 we talked about plate tectonics and how South America and Africa were once connected. What I failed to mention, is that the naturalistic account states that at one time all the land was together in one giant continent we call Pangea. Pangea itself appears to have been formed out of other continents that were drifting around through the mechanism of plate tectonics.
What we see in the geological record is the formation of land, and then a lot of land movement with a changing landscape over the life of the Earth. Somehow, we need to summarize this for the third day, including what we said in Episode 7 about early life. Here are five bullet points for the right side of our chart.
· About 3.2 to 3.3 billion years ago, dry land began to emerge.
· There was a separation of land and water.
· Land masses moved around but eventually connected into one location.
· Plants and simple organisms first appeared around 400 million to 1 billion years ago.
· Modern type plants first appeared around 700 million years ago.
DAY THREE COMPARISON
When we look at the two sets of bullet points for the third day, we again, find a fascinating agreement in the sequence between the Biblical account and naturalistic science.
I find the part about the land being in one place fascinating. If you look at the Genesis account, the terminology used is that the waters are gathered together, and these waters were named Seas…plural. And yet, the result is that the water ends up in its own place…singular. This is remarkable, to me, because the naturalistic account could be summarized this way. We have masses of land moving around, breaking up the water into seas, until they eventually combine into one.
One of the areas that seems most different between the Scriptural and naturalistic perspective involves the plants producing seed according to their kind. But maybe it is not that much of a difference, I am not sure. I think it depends on the viewpoint of the naturalist.
The verses say that a pine tree will produce a pine tree and an apple tree will produce an apple tree. A naturalist may or may not have a problem with this. For example, a naturalist may say that multiple types of trees evolved from a common ancestor, but each tree will not easily change from its current state unless the right set of circumstances occurs. A naturalist may find they agree to some extent with this part of the Genesis account. The big difference, of course, will always be that the naturalist rejects the introduction of God into the story. Here God is specifically given credit for the development of different types of vegetation, whereas a naturalist relies on evolution and natural selection.
KNOWING EACH OTHER
In doing this Season on Creation, one thing that has challenged me is just how many Christians are not sure what to think about Creation, and how many origin theories there are in naturalism. When we have a conversation with a Christian, or a naturalist, or anyone really, there is no way to know what they believe without a conversation. Just because someone says they are a Christian or a naturalist, does not mean they believe the same as every other Christian or naturalist.
Part of having a conversation means that we listen carefully and respectfully ask questions to help us understand what the other person believes. This has taken me many years to learn, and I still mess up sometimes.
I mentioned in the last episode that I do not like to be wrong. Sometimes when someone is telling me what they believe, I want to jump in and correct them. It has taken me a long time to get more comfortable letting people share and to not even worry if they are not interested in hearing my beliefs. I am learning that listening without talking is a type of investment for a long-term relationship.
I have also noticed the more I listen to another person, the easier it is to hear the Holy Spirit guiding me in how best to minister to them. A conversation around Creation often takes us to the Big Questions we talked about in Episode 3. This is fertile ground where the Holy Spirit wants to comfort people and point them to Jesus. The less I am concerned about spouting my beliefs, the more I can elevate Jesus through the work of the Holy Spirit. If you want to know more about how the Holy Spirit works through us in spiritual gifts, check out Season 1.
CLOSING
In our next episode we will continue comparing the Biblical Creation account with the materialist viewpoint. We will try to finish Day Four and Day Five. So far, we have seen a strong agreement in the sequencing of events between the Bible and the naturalistic account. However, Day Four is the most different, depending on your beliefs.
Also, if you are having a hard time visualizing our virtual chart, remember that every episode has a transcript. If your podcast viewer does not support transcripts, then please go to the Spirit-Led Hope website by following the links in the episode notes.
As always, if you have any comments, suggestions, or questions, please email me at glenn@spiritledhope.com, or simply use the Contact Form at spiritledhope.com. That is spiritLEDhope.com.
If you have any conversations this week with people you do not know well, I encourage you to listen and see what God might do through you.
As we end this episode…
May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope, by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Until next episode, take care.
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