Ep. 82 Robin Stevens Payes

On this episode, I am joined by Robin Stevens Payes. She is a science writer, storyteller and author of the teen time travel adventure series, Edge of Yesterday. Creator of an interactive “learning through story” platform, her organization, EOY Media partners with schools and enrichment programs to offer internships, programs, classes and workshops geared to GenZ youth to learn through story and examine the past to reach for our more perfect future.

On this episode we discuss parenting and her latest book and workshop the Mother-Daughter Code. She tries to offer insight on how mothers and daughters can communicate in an effective way that benefits both parties.

Mothers and daughters – Edge of Yesterday Blog
Robin Stevens Payes (@robinstevenspayes) • Instagram photos and videos
TheMotherDaughterCode

Ashley (@filledupcup_) • Instagram photos and videos
Filled Up Cup - Unconventional Self Care for Modern Women

Transcript

0:00

Welcome to the Filled Up Cup podcast. We are a different kind of self-care resource. One that has nothing to do with bubble baths and face masks, and everything to do with rediscovering yourself. We bring you real reviews, honest experiences, and unfiltered opinions that will make you laugh, cry, and most importantly, leave you with a filled up cup.

Ashley: 0:32

I am so excited. I have Robin Steven Payne joining me today. She is the author of the science fiction series edge of yesterday. She's also a mom of three, a coach, and a mentor. Her newest book is the mother daughter code. Thank you so much for joining me.

Robin: 0:47

Thanks for having me, Ashley. I'm excited to be here.

Ashley: 0:50

Can you let everybody know sort of what to expect with the mother-daughter code? What its about?

Robin: 0:56

Sure. This is something that has in a way grown out of my writing these book series. And of course, out of my being a mom my, kids are all grown adults now, but we went through those hard times when they were teens. I found, especially with my daughter, that, the dynamic changes when they get to be 10 or 11 and suddenly they're not. That I don't wanna say compliant because it's never compliant, but that receptive, excited girl that you got to enjoy when she was kind of before middle school, they challenge you, right? Not just accepting everything you say. And so it was a dynamic that really confused me when my daughter was that age in particular, not that my sons didn't go through those moments, but especially with my daughter. And so it really was the propulsion that drove me to write the edge of yesterday series was when my daughter was entering those preteen years, and I was listening in, on their back seat conversations because you know how. As a carpooling mom, you get to hear things you wouldn't hear otherwise from your daughter and her friends, and they don't think you're there. You know, they think you're invisible. I was taking notes and it was really a challenge for me. And one of the things that came up at that time for me was the fact that, well, there were two things. Really. One of the things that came up for me was that girls in particular, Have this really difficult transition that they make in middle school and later where they might have been bubbly and forthcoming as younger, children or, younger girls. But when they reach that age, they suddenly get to be self-conscious. They suddenly maybe pull back. They're not sure about boys and relationships and it causes a lot of changes, I would say in how at least for my daughter and her friends, it changes how they present themselves in their confidence in a lot of ways takes a hit. And so I created a female teen character who I went to embody all of the qualities that I hoped to imbue in my daughter at the time, and also to get my sons as they were entering that age to respect. that girls can be strong. They can be assertive, they can be smart and they can be respected, and it's up to the boys at that point, as they are getting to be teens themselves, to understand that here's a force to be reckoned with, and she's not backing down,

Ashley: 3:32

which I think is so important because I feel like whether it's subconscious or whether it's just sort of the programming that we've had. Do tend to use strong or fast for boys and it's, you know, you're so pretty or you are so nice when it comes to women. So it is so great to have that messaging that we both can be fast. We both can be strong without it having to have some negative or bad connotation attached to it.

Robin: 3:59

Yeah, exactly. And it's really interesting because I've come to look at fairy tales as kind of the archetype for at least in the west for what we expect girls to be, you know, girls are passive, the prince is gonna rescue you. He's going to take you out of the trance, snow white. Right. But what if that's just not necessarily true? What if we are our own savior, I don't wanna use that word in the grandiose space, but what if we have the capacity to be our own advocates to really be confident and competent in ourselves. And how do you translate that idea when it's so ingrained from early childhood on, you know, if you look at fairy tales that we read our kids, when they're little, how do you transform that idea when they get to be sort of. Tweens or teens middle school and beyond how do we make that story come alive for them and really give them that spark of confidence to be their own heroes.

Ashley: 5:03

I really do think that is a really important point because from an early age we're sold on, you know, that pretty, pretty princess syndrome and waiting for prince charming. And, you know, sometimes there is a prince charming, but sometimes there just isn't. So if we do spend all of our time waiting for somebody to fix things or waiting to fix things that really aren't broken and really to find that confidence in ourselves can be so challenging. But I think it's so important that we start feeding that messaging into young people because it is such a hard time and is so challenging. I think sometimes as grown ups or, or parents. We sometimes forget what a challenging and hard phase it is for them and how they have all this mixed messages. Plus the self confidence issues plus hormones, plus just the neurological brain development and all of these things that it's sometimes hard to remember everything that they are dealing with.

Robin: 5:56

Yeah, totally. And it's more intense now, right? With social media, you know, if they're scrolling through their Instagram and everyone else is prettier, everyone else has the boyfriend, boy, that just gives them such a wall up to their self esteem. And so then they start making up who they should be or who they think they should be. And it doesn't necessarily come from inside them. Like the cues that we get are the clues that we get are so much external now that it's hard to be able to tune into the internal clues that really help guide us personally, you know, that are our own story. And so I use stories and storytelling as kind of the entry point to finding both the way to navigate or to help our daughters and our children in general. It's not just the girls. But our children navigate that. Really fraught period in their lives. As you say, it's hormones, it's brain science, it's peer pressure, all of those things social media pressure. But through our stories, Like the fairy tale, how do we change the ending? Or how do we even change the beginning so that we're empowering our girls, but also Ashley ourselves. How do we empower ourselves as moms to really be that example to mentor our daughters and their friends, to show the example that you can be strong, that you can be assertive, that you can still be. A good person. You can still be respected and you can still feel good in yourself. These are the kinds of questions that come up, which I think is really. Really important as well. Cause I think sometimes, and you had kind of talked about how, you know, those 10 and 11, those years, all of a sudden, they just creep up on you. And all of a sudden you have like this completely different little person that you are trying to be there for. And I feel like the relationship dynamic changes and it changes so fast and suddenly that it becomes, you know, you're still trying to take care of them and monitor them, but it becomes less of a. You know, brush your teeth, go to bed. thing that it is when they're really little or, hold my hand as across the street versus I have to now kind of guide you and back off a little bit so that you can make your own mistakes. And I feel like especially myself as a parent, it's such a challenging step back because it does happen so quickly for us to kind of realize that they don't need us in the same capacity. And that's okay. and that word you use to guide is the word that I try to emphasize when I'm working with moms and teens, because we are not in control of them. Yeah. And much less. So when they're teens, of course, than when they're younger. So we can serve as guides. We can serve as role models and mentors, but we cannot tell them this is who you have to be. That is for them to discover. And the other thing that I think that we overemphasize in parts of our culture in this country anyway, is that we have to protect them. That is your job as a parent, but also they have to learn how to suffer. Proportionally to their capacity to be able to so suffering a little bit. When you're young gives you that resilience, it shows you can bounce back. So that when you get older, you can handle the bigger problems, because if you don't get that in steps, when you're growing up, then you hit the bump, you know, where you're off at college. Mom and dad have done everything for you. You've gotten all the trophies, right. And suddenly you're not the smartest anymore, or you're not the best in soccer Or somebody else is challenging your belief system. If you are not prepared for that from a younger age, sort of in an evolutionary way, then boom, that really that's a big herd at that point, a big hit, and it's much harder to bounce back from that. I've done a lot of work in translational neuroscience, I'm a science writer too. And so brain science is. Particular fascination to me. And especially for adolescents, I say, I study teen brains and write about teen brains. Because that is a time when there's so much going on in their heads and in their hearts in their lives. But it's a time really when we have to give them the skills to be resilient. I came to this brain science thing when my kids were teenagers too. I often say if I could time travel back to when they were little, the one thing that I would want to instill in them is resilience. Because if there's one quality that will serve you through a lifetime, it's being able to bounce back from adversity. And there is no one who gets through life without adversity. I'm sure you have seen that yourself.

Ashley: 10:52

I think, my generation being, I guess, like an elder millennial, or sort of that age gap of things, I feel like we tended to over correct a little bit and almost lean into that helicopter parenting where we kind of were like, we'll do all of the things and we'll bubble wrap you and will help you. I think did that disservice where it was like our helping really didn't give them the skills to necessarily be able to be as independent as they need to. Like, I. So many people tend to be scared of failure or think of it as like this big thing where sometimes our failures can really lead us to really great skill sets or a really great lesson, or pivot us in a way that this didn't work out. But now I know I have the ability to do this. Let's try it this way.

Robin: 11:42

Yeah. I'm a mentor in where I live, we have a very active group of women in technology, and there's a girls in technology program. I've been a mentor with girls in technology for. Five or six years now. And we always lead a session to mentor these proteges about failure. How do you fail and succeed again? And so one of the stories that I love the most is Thomas Edison did not fail. 999 ways to create a light bulb. He just learned 999 ways not to make a light bulb. So I love that it's that idea of persistence and, you know, failure can lead to success. Sometimes the success doesn't look at all like what you want it to or what you think it should. But being open and receptive to that is really I think its own skillset.

Ashley: 12:32

I definitely agree with that. Now getting back to sort of the mother daughter code, what are some of the keys that you recommend that people think about while they're taking the program?

Robin: 12:43

So there are six keys that I have to unlocking the mother daughter code so the six keys to a better you and her together. The first key is why is she doing this to me? Or here we go again. I sort of have both of those frameworks in mind. So here we go again, is that idea that we feel like we are nagging her to death, right? Pick up your clothes, get ready for school. Don't forget your homework. You did you make your lunch? Are you gonna get to the bus on time? You know, how often do we find ourselves reminding her? It seems like a broken record, right? It happens all the time, but what if there is something in her that is developmentally appropriate that keeps her from focusing in on what we think is important. So a little bit of this, here we go again. What is she doing to me? Why is she doing this to me? Is tuning into where she is developmentally. And what is appropriate sometimes it's not appropriate. Sometimes it's a bad habit or she's lost in her Instagram or she fell asleep on the phone to her best friend so sometimes it's not the right thing, but oftentimes if we're listening to our daughters, we can hear them. If we are really curious and ask her what's going on with you. And have the trust and the communication open with her, then we will learn something about why this is happening over and over. Maybe it's just making her bed and cleaning up. Her room is just not that important to her. Maybe she's got three exams coming up the next day and she just was too tired to get to it. So a lot of this is good listening skills. A lot of this is reminding ourselves what it's like to be that age. And also just knowing what's developmentally appropriate. So that's one of the keys is, you know, here we go again. The thing that I like to remind mothers, you mentioned the helicopter mom we have all of these names for over parenting. I like the phrase. Good enough. Mothering. So we're not perfect, right? She's not perfect. And to expect perfection is just impossible and it leaves us always questioning ourselves and our parenting skills, but it also leaves her thinking. We're she's never good enough. So this idea of good enough parenting or good enough mothering is being accepting of where she is and where you are. Because that's gonna change over time. That dynamic is always changing, but sort of being receptive to the fact that perfection is not our goal here. It's being good enough from where we are at that moment. So good enough. Mothering is the second key tapping the creativity code. So one of the things that I have noticed, especially working with the teens who I've mentored, and I have a group of interns who works with me for edge of yesterday, which is the book series. Who I teach writing skills to. It's sort of a job apprenticeship in a way is that we have taught ourselves and our kids that creativity is a bad thing. And what do I mean by that in school? You have to have the answer it's either, right. or wrong. Sometimes there's a gray area, right? Sometimes, I mean, it could be an essay in question and that gives you a little more leeway, but we emphasize that there's a right way of thinking. We are guilty of this in our own lives too. We've sort of had the creativity raised out of us in a way. So if you look at young children, what do they do? They play right. And they create crazy things.. And sometimes it's just nonsense. Sometimes they're, you know, coloring on the walls and you're like really POed because what are you doing that for? Sometimes if we give them the right tools, like paper and crayons and teach them not to write on the walls, they are creating amazing things that are helping their brains, make new connections and grow. We have the capacity. As adults to re-tap into our inner five year old to play and create, but also to teach our teens, that it's okay to play as a teenager, it's okay to play as an adult. If you're not playing, you're losing a really important skill that kind of makes life more fun, more interesting, but also helps solve problems. Right? How often do we hear that in today's economy? You need to learn to be a problem solver, but we don't give. our young people, the tools in certainly not in school and often not at home either where they can make new connections or they can collaborate with other people in ways that are outside the box thinking. So the creativity code is one component and that's a part of the mother-daughter code that we spend a little time creating. One of the things that I love to do is called the paperclip challenge. If you think of a paperclip, it could be any color, but silver paperclip, right? Who comes up with age wise, who can come up with the most ways to use a paper? Brainstorm that? What would you use the paperclip for?

Ashley: 18:15

I love sort of thinking about it. Cause it is so simple. You could use it potentially to hang things even on your wall, like art, you could use it in a traditional sense, like grouping paper that the, options really are endless. If you open your mind them.

Robin: 18:29

Yeah. So five year olds have the most ways that they come up with using paperclips. There are a hundred ways that this is an actual research experiment. That's been done a hundred ways that a five year old can use a paperclip. It could be closed, it could be earrings. It could be a ring around your finger. Options are endless by the time they're seven, it's 50. They come up with 50 ideas by the time they're in fourth grade, it's maybe 20. And by the time we get to high school, it might be five or 10. And by the time we adults come up with it, you know, it's well, what do you do with paperclips? Of course you clip papers together, but we don't even stop to think about what other options there are, cuz that would be silly. But what if being silly is really part of. How to make life more joyous. And I feel like joy is something that we're missing a lot out in life for ourselves and for our kids.

Ashley: 19:23

I definitely agree with that. I think especially in the last couple years trapped in like the hustle culture and we're all so burned out and just sort of trying to keep our head above the water that it's like, we did forget, what makes me happy during the day, what's something I really enjoy doing. What's something where I can play and kind of get back to that inner child. It kind of becomes this regimented thing where it's like, we weren't meant to just live and, go home. Yeah.

Robin: 19:48

So think about when you were five years old, Ashley, what was something that you loved to do?

Ashley: 19:55

I feel like I had imaginary friends and loved playing with dolls. I think that was like my go to,

Robin: 20:02

okay. So what if you were to do that as an adult?

Ashley: 20:06

Well, I feel like I've sort of subbed imaginary friends for like talking to new people all the time. So I kind of get to you are doing it that way. And then the dolls, I just, not so much anymore, but yeah. So I think it's leaning into those things. What sort of spark joy, what brings those passions back?

Robin: 20:24

Yeah. Well, I even think about, when I was maybe seven or eight, I wanted be an Olympic figure skater. So I took ice skating lessons for a long time. And then. Became clearer. After a while that I was not gonna be an Olympic skater, but I still like to go skating sometimes. And why not? And why, why not take your daughter along with you or why not indulge in one of the things that she feels passionate about? Maybe it's doing a trash pickup day. Why not engage in something with her that you guys can do together? That's gonna build that bond between mothers and daughters. It's not about you wanting her to do something or what you think is gonna make her successful, but it's about indulging sort of the things that she cares about that maybe she wouldn't think you would wanna do with her but sharing that moment would just create a new memory. The third key is, and this I feel is really important I call it mothering yourself. So what are those childhood wounds or those moments that we missed ourselves growing up that because our mothers didn't know or didn't listen or were too busy or had to work all the time and couldn't be there. What are those moments that we feel. Hurt us. And how much of that are we projecting onto our daughter? So the capacity and this kind of gets back to the turning the fairytale into a female empowerment story is we can go back and mother ourselves through those wounds. What does that look like?

Ashley: 22:03

Healing is so important because I feel like again, whether we realize it or whether it's so subconscious, we do end up bringing things. From our childhood forward things that could have seemed very simple in the moment. And then we've kind of twisted or made it seem like something else that now is creating shame or guilt. And I feel like being a mom, we always kind of talk about mom guilt. And a lot of that is like, Not necessarily things that our kids are doing to us, but more things that we project in and kind of create in our own head where I think any time that we can eliminate that guilt or really get back to the root of why it exists in the first place is so important.

Robin: 22:43

Yeah. Yeah. So mothering yourself is very important and, I'm glad you brought up that word guilt. I was looking at a study recently that said that Parents spend most of their time when they're not doing something with their child or for their child guilty about what they didn't do or something they did wrong. And that kind of ties into the good enough parenting idea as well. First of all, we feel guilty that we didn't give our. Daughter, our child, everything that we know she needed or that we thought would help her. And part of it is also that we didn't get that. We weren't modeled that as children. And so how would we even know? And then why would she feel guilty about something you couldn't possibly know? It's very much intertwined. So the guilt is a very real thing and I think every parent feels it because again, we're not perfect. We don't know everything that's going on in her life. And honestly, many times we don't even know the things that are driving us.

Ashley: 23:45

I like the fact that it kind of brings up this good enough striving for perfection. There really is no such thing. So I think if we do strive for every single day is gonna be different. Every single day, all we can do is try our best and hope that our kids are receptive to what our best looks like for that day. I think not only letting ourselves off the hook, but letting our kids off the hook, like you had kind of talked about in the beginning, how it can feel like there's this back and forth of nagging and it feels like we're not really getting through to them where it's like letting them off the hook. What battles am I gonna pick today? Are we gonna focus on getting out the door on time or are we really gonna care that there's still, three water glasses in her room and it's really, You were the one having the conversation with yourself, which would you be most open to? If somebody was like, Hey, you gotta do a, B, C, and kind of constantly feel like you're barking orders. That person's gonna be like, I can't deal. So it's sort of meeting them where they are. And I think. Just being open to not having to control all those things At the end of the day, if you remind them and things don't get done, then it's also them learning that consequence of like, oh shoot, maybe mom was right and I should have done X, Y, and Z. And now I have that experience in my brain of being able to know what happened last time. So it might make the choice for them easier for next time.

Robin: 25:05

Right. I think that's a really good point. And you also have to have the presence of mind to even remember that, right? Yeah. As if you're you're mad because you know, she threw her clothes on the floor. Again, she came in, she didn't say hello. She just stormed off to her room. Probably some friend drama going on, but she's not gonna tell you about it. Then your POed because she knows she's supposed to do these things and we don't always even have the presence of mind to kind of take a pause, take a breath and say, okay, this isn't about the same old thing happening over and over again. Let me investigate. Let me take a pause step back and see first of all, what I'm feeling and if that's appropriate. And second of all, Does this remind me of anything like did we go through this before? And I handled it wrong. How could I handle it differently? So that leads me to sort of the fifth part of the mother daughter code, which is I have a journaling program. It's kind of like a minicourse within the program journaling, you know, I get this all the time. People say, I'm not a writer. Well, you don't have to be a writer it's for you. you can do a list if that's what all that comes to mind. You can doodle and draw it. If it's not something you wanna write out, but just setting down those feelings so that you remember. So just like you said, what happened last time that I could do different this time? Well, if you don't remember last time, if you didn't write it down, if. You know, then you can't call it to mind when you need it in order to change the story. So it's tapping into our own story and the story of that dynamic with our daughter. And then how do you change the story, which is the sixth key, changing the story. Sometimes it is you changing the story and then it changes the whole dynamic with her, right. Even if she isn't on board with doing a program with you like this mother daughter code, cuz we can do things together as mothers and daughters as part of the mother daughter code. But even if she's not on board for that, but she might not be at that age. It's like that's mom's thing. But if she sees those changes happening in you, then it's gonna change the relationship. She's gonna notice because she's tuned into everything that's going. Right with you. She's gonna say, whoa, that never happened before. What's going on here. That's an opportunity to have another kind of conversation. It can lead to a different outcome.

Ashley: 27:42

So, which I like that it's sort of reminding parents of that. Just because it was this, this time doesn't mean that, that has to be the ongoing thing that we do have room to grow and change. As a mom of the 15 year old, it's really easy to get your feelings hurt because it's like, you just love them so much. And you're like, I'm just here for you. Like just let me help that it's so hard to remember that their behavior and their actions, even if it comes across as like, mean, or potentially rude, most of the time. They're not really trying to be like that. I know, from my perspective, it's trying to remove sort of the feelings out of it. It's almost remembering that they're like less cute toddlers in a sense that it's like, you're getting the tantrums again. You're getting like the big feelings. Right. And if they're behaving in a certain way, it really doesn't necessarily have to be like, Because you ask them to clean the room or, all of these things can kind of come outta nowhere. And it's just remembering to not get your feelings hurt, which again is so much easier said than done.

Robin: 28:39

Yeah. Yeah. One of my favorite memes is a head of a teen kind of a cartoonish with the top cutoff. And you see all the workings inside and the, headline is work in progress. Yeah. Remembering that, they're not mini adults and they're not grown up 10 year olds either, but they are refining and learning and trying new things and taking on new identities to see how that feels and the whole peer thing. Is a really big deal. It's so hard. There's a lot of drama, as I know, I'm sure you, you have found out with your daughter, but that's the time when she might not tell you everything, but you can offer to be there. Yeah. And you can say, I'm not gonna judge you. I'm here to lend an ear. If you wanna talk, if you don't, that's fine. But I understand cuz I remember when I was growing up and that's going to be the eye roll time. Right. That's when he gets when I grow up, my best friend did this and I was so upset that I didn't even wanna go to school for a week because that was so hard. It's just taking that where you don't put her on the spot, but she just listen, you just open the door and say so what's going on. Can I help listen and would that help? And sometimes it won't because you know, these things change, but it's just the idea that she knows you're there. And the other thing is that when you were talking about being rude, they are practicing boundaries that they can. Put in place for themselves, but also with their friends. She knows that she can be rude to you and you're still gonna be there cuz you love her so much and she loves you too, but she can do things in the family relationship that she would never do with her friends, because that is such a tenuous relationship. So sometimes it's swallowing your pride a little bit and saying, I know this is not about me. This is just normal. This is gonna pass hopefully. I can still be here and not take on her anger or her frustration or her feeling of self of, worthlessness or whatever the feeling is that she's really expressing underneath.

Ashley: 30:59

Yeah, now I know we kind of talked about the parent section in the mother-daughter code, but there is actually a teen section part of your program too,

Robin: 31:06

We can do it in any one of a number of ways where we either have mothers and daughters taking on some of these things together. Or there's a section just for teens where mom is not involved, where it's a place for them to hang out and be themselves. And that they can talk about the things about perhaps the relationship. With their mother that are frustrating for them. And it's not gonna cause a confrontation because we keep that separate. It's confidential. It's just for them. It's having that safe space. It's a little bit guided in the sense that I can be an objective third party and they feel like they can talk or listen in a way that they couldn't with.

Ashley: 31:51

Which I think is so important too, because I think going back to the over parenting a little bit, we take on that ownership that we have to be everything to our kids and that they should come to us for all of these things. But I think it's so great for teens to have multiple responsible adults that they can go to or mentors that they can turn to so that they're getting, different opinions or different skills from different people. But I think that that tool is really important to include as.

Robin: 32:20

Absolutely. I don't deal with the situations that are really traumatic or, I'm not a mental health counselor. I deal with it more from the standpoint of a healthy dynamic. Yeah. That just problematic in this time period. It's not that you've gone crazy or she's gone crazy. It's normal. There's this tension that didn't exist before and you might not expect it and she might not expect it. How do we deal with. Separately or together or both. I'm not a therapist and I would refer out somebody who had a serious problem, like a drug problem, or, a trauma of some kind or an abusive situation going on. I wouldn't take that on, but I do think that having mentors, having others. In your life who can help round you out and can give you a different perspective is really valuable because to expect a parent, to be everything just as you said, and do everything and know everything is just totally unrealistic. I mean, it's not fair and we take that on ourselves. If you think back. Historically, we grew up in, you know, if you wanna call it a tribe or a neighborhood or a religious group or extended families were together and they had lots of different people to go to where they could check something out or they could get a different perspective on things. And we could too, you know, and sometimes our friend groups can still do that. But sometimes our friends are going through the same things with their daughters and they're like, I don't know, I tried this and that didn't work, or, did you ask her about this? And I'm like, no, I'm never gonna ask her about that. Because last time I did, it was like, boom, there was an explosion. But if you have sort of different age groups, you have different family relationships, or even as you said, mentoring relationships that you can bring together. It could be a counselor or a teacher at school, you know, it could be a neighbor. it doesn't have to be you all the time. That's such a big burden. It's such a big responsibility. And I think it's unfair. It goes back to that. Good enough parenting idea, we put this burden on ourselves and it's just so unfair because it's unrealistic. Not one person cannot be everything to another person. So we should stop making ourselves think that that is what we have to do.

Ashley: 34:39

Absolutely. We need to, like you said, let ourselves off the hook and focus on what we can do and let that be good enough. And it's so funny because I feel like, and every kid's age, this could happen at a different time, but there's like that small window of time where the lessons that you are trying to learn, whether it's, you know, don't drink and drive. Don't you know, cheat on a test or whatever the thing may be. I feel like there's a small window of time where they'll actually listen to what we're saying and kind of take it to heart. But so if that lesson is coming from a teacher in class, And it just hits at the right time. It really can shift their perspective. It's appreciating all the people that could bring these lessons to your kids. That again are just regular life lessons. It doesn't have to be like a big trauma or something where professional help is needed, but it's just appreciating that these lessons can come from anywhere and really just being open to, I guess, other people providing them.

Robin: 35:37

It's also a little bit of checking in too, right? Because the peer thing is so strong in adolescence. So if they're getting all their advice from their best friend or the new boyfriend, that's a whole other thing or social media, more likely it's worth doing a check in to see if that's true.

Ashley: 35:58

When we're relying on teenagers giving other teenagers information, it's like you have no idea what silly information it could come from. So I think it's really in our household anyways, it's a really teaching them that you are gonna mess up and there's gonna be things along the way that don't go well. I may not like those choices that you make and there may be consequences to those choices, but it's like always feel that I'm here for you basically, and, being really open to them to be willing to have those awkward conversations or those challenging conversations. And just really trying your hardest to be a safe space. Even if you know those conversations, don't always feel easy or, comfortable for the parent to have.

Robin: 36:44

Right. Yeah. And how hard is that right? To have some of those conversations. It seems like there are more of them today. When I was growing up, it was, don't get into a car with a stranger. There are so many other ways that we try to protect our kids today. Cuz there's so many other possible threats. Online bullies, you know, in this school who knows, and we do our best to keep our kids safe, but we also have to give them the skills and some of this I call tapping into your inner self for them as well, not just your own inner five year old, but their inner knowing. That we often overlook right in our world. What is our gut saying? So stopping to think is that person really on my side would my mom really send somebody else to pick me up at school? I don't think so. I'm not getting in the car with them or you know, is this boy really? You know, he says he loves me and he wants to be my boyfriend. Well, I've only known him for 25 minutes. yeah. How true can that be? And, and of course at that age, you get swept away and you wanna believe certain things are true. And so that's also allure, but teaching her to check in with her gut, like what does that feel like to you? Is it feel safe? Does it feel like who you really are or you play acting now? Are you trying to be like so and so, because she thinks she's cool and she's part of the in crowd and you wanna be like her, or is it something that is really true for you and giving them the strength to pause and take a breath? Just like you need to pause and take a breath before you react. I think a really valuable lesson. And I think it's one that we don't even think about teaching.

Ashley: 38:35

I think we sometimes will Gaslight ourselves when it comes to intuition and I feel like we really need to trust it more and, like you said, teach our kids to really look at that. What is that little voice inside your head saying? Is it telling you like, I don't think so. Or are you getting that weird feeling in your gut and really trusting those? Because I feel like especially as little kids, they. will wholeheartedly trust that and, you know, go, oh, I don't like that person. Or, you know, that person is offering me candy. I'm not gonna get into their car where I feel like as we get a little bit older, we tend to second guess ourselves a little bit more and tend to not wanna trust that voice. So I think it is an important skill set to try to teach our teens.

Robin: 39:19

Yeah. Or even, you know, the best friend you had when you were in fifth grade and now in seventh grade, she is doing some riskier things and wants you to come along. I don't know. Do you wanna think about that before you just say, okay, I'm gonna go with you to the mall or I'm gonna go with you and we're gonna hang out. And there's a cute guy there, and I'm gonna start, you know, vaping or something, whatever that story is, it might be that that person has also changed in ways that you don't feel comfortable with. So what is that your comfort zone? Is telling you it's true for you, and it might not be the best idea to go with that former best friend who's now into things that maybe are not things that you would normally indulge in yourself.

Ashley: 40:10

Which I think is a really good lesson. And I think it's so hard when they're younger, because their friends seem like the end all be all where these friendships really, do run their course maybe after a year or just because you are friends at this point doesn't mean that it's, you know, they're gonna be the bridesmaids at your wedding or whatever the case may be. So it's being confident enough to be able to cut those friendships.

Robin: 40:31

Yeah. That's true. That's true. These are hard things. It's not black and white. It's not absolutely. It's not that there's a rule that if this happens, you do this. And as you said, it's having that roadmap for your relationship with your daughter when she reaches these years. Maybe the roadmap, even if you start creating it between yourselves, you, and her together, or you started out and check with her to see if this is true or. not For 15 year old, it might be true. And for at 16 it might not be true anymore.

Ashley: 41:06

Absolutely. And that's sort of where the hard part of like parenting comes in, cuz there isn't necessarily this perfect, you know, advice book of like, this is what's gonna happen on this day and what's gonna happen on that day. So I think it's really great to have a book like yours where it's shifting our conversation to be like it can look like this this time, but you know, be open. You know, turning into something different or being something different. And I think any resources that we have for sort of 10 up are so great, because I feel like there is a little bit of lacking in that department as, just sort of a technique of how to help.

Robin: 41:46

Getting back to this idea of brain science, you know, adolescent brains, teen brains what we understand about the development. At this age, it's changing so much because there are new research tools with, brain scanning and things like that, where we can actually see what's going on when they're engaged in risky behavior. And, what areas of the brain light up that might sound like. Totally theoretical, but it does give us an idea of why they are sensation seeking. For example, at this age, in this time period, or why peers are so important in their lives, it just gives us a new insight and new tools. And so that's why I'm continually following the research on teen brain development and psychology and things like that because we're discovering more and more about how. Humans develop in general, but this, period of time is just so fruitful. It's just so fascinating. And it is so rewarding, as you. See them blossom as you see them taking on new roles and responsibilities for themselves, or even as you see them, trying something that they would never have done before, even if it's like eating an artichoke that they would never have done when they were little. Those are, little moments to celebrate. I think we forget about the celebration sometimes.

Ashley: 43:01

Yeah. I definitely agree with that. There are really fantastic things about having teenagers. It's like, There's that saying that when kids are little it's like that, the days are long and the years are short. Well kind of, as they become a teenager, you really realize how fast it all goes. I just feel like yesterday she was going off to kindergarten and now she's starting grade 10, that it really does go so fast. It's nice to have somebody who can get themselves ready. For school in the morning, I don't have to really prompt her to do things like that. We'll like the same movies and we can go have like a movie date together or go out for dinner. I, don't have to make sure she's going to the bathroom with me because she can sit alone at the table and all of these things that. You don't get the ability to do with them when they're really, really little, that there's so many fun things about having a teenager like you said, we do tend to focus more on some of the annoying things that they do or how challenging it is or how expensive it is and all of these things where there is a ton of great things about having teenager.

Robin: 44:02

It is. And they have opinions that are sometimes really interesting to hear about you might not always agree with them, and sometimes they're gonna be in conflict with what you think or what you want her to agree with you on there's challenges. But just to see those brains kind of open up and. Have the new thoughts and introduce new ideas. And they may come up with things that we wouldn't necessarily think of from their perspective. I love these gen Z kids because in a way they're very vulnerable. They're much more open and receptive. They've come through some really tough times, covid and we had. 2020 with all of the political and racial and other strife, but they're passionate about it. I mean, they're inheriting a world from us that is. Really pivoting in big ways and we don't know what that's gonna look like, so that can look scary, that can feel threatening, but to empower them to be the ones who are finding solutions for cancer or preventing the next pandemic or thinking about what AI is gonna do in people's lives, in the future. But thinking about it in a way that taps into their sort of moral center. And they do have their own moral center. And they'll tell you all about it. It's something to celebrate. It's something to encourage because this is how they evolve into thinking and caring and Ethical adults. So having those kinds of conversations is another way that we can celebrate they're coming into a more mature phase of life and as rough as it can be their journey to adulthood. We're on the same journey. I'm not a teenager obviously, and I'm not a millennial I'm a boomer and I'm much more on the An older phase of development, but I am so excited because I get to learn. I get to work with people. I get to try new things every day. It's a lifelong skill. When you instill it in them, when they're young, when you get them enthusiastic or curious in asking questions, even if you don't like the questions that they ask, but encourage the questions because that's gonna make them thinking and considerate and caring adults and the other quality of character that I like to stress when I'm working with parents in particular of teens. Is this idea of empathy and I think this gen Z has it in spades as caring about others, caring about the environment, caring about our neighbors, caring about other people in the family and putting ourselves in their shoes and them putting themselves in other shoes because to really. Promote the kind of change we're gonna need as the 2020s and beyond is going to require really understanding and relating to, and being open and tolerant of other people's opinions and other situations in the world.

Ashley: 47:03

Which is kind of the plus side of technology. It tends to kind of get a bad rep, but that's the fantastic thing about this generation is that they have access to learning about climate change in a different way. They have access to meeting different people and different cultures than them that they would never, ever. In their own communities had the option necessarily to do focusing on anti-racism being more open to L G B T Q plus people. All of these things where I really do think even compared to my generation, that the next generation has that in spades where they kind of have like a no nonsense, no bullshit aspect of it, where they were like, I know climate change is real. So let's make sure that doesn't happen again. And they are more. I think brave in their opinions to vocalize some of these things and really wanna be that change. And I'm super excited to see, what they do with that

Robin: 47:57

They're forming organizations that are doing amazing things, they're on the ground getting involved in, helping to educate people about climate change or gun violence or some of these other really big. Thorney problems. We have been facing in our country for a very long time, but they're doing it they're organizing in their own way and they can because of technology you're right. They can organize in ways that older generations could not they're so interconnected, they can do it on social media. They can text each other. They can get people mobilized in new ways. And I just think it's so great..

Ashley: 48:34

I really appreciate you having this conversation with me tonight. If anybody is looking for you online, where can they find you?

Robin: 48:41

So they can find me at edgeofyesterday.com. And social media, of course, Instagram TikTok. I'm really active on TikTok. Believe it or not, it's so much fun to be an older person working in the younger person's platform

Ashley: 48:55

awesome. Thank you so much.

Robin: 48:58

It's great talking to you, Ashley.

49:02

Thank you so much for joining us today for this episode of The Filled Up Cup podcast. Don't forget to hit subscribe and leave a review. If you like what you hear. You can also connect with us at filledupcup.com. Thanks again for tuning in and we'll catch you in the next episode.