Are Eating Disorders Easy to Treat? (with Gayle Goldstein, Author of "Illuminate: A Memoir")

I sat down with a friend of mine and gifted author, Gayle Goldstein, to talk about her journey through eating disorder recovery and the road that led her to pursuing a vocation in therapy.

Order “illuminate: a memoir” today!

Read the article associated with this episode here.

TOPICS COVERED 👇 

• The dance culture’s impact on Gayle’s relationship with food and her body image [6:04]
• How Gayle’s trauma led to an eating disorder [9:14]
• The moment Gayle realized she had an eating disorder [14:39]
• Hesitating to get help for an eating disorder [16:49]
• Gayle’s sense of relief when she received help [20:10]
• A typical day in treatment [21:52]
• Why failures are better for your recovery [26:59]
• How all body shapes and sizes are in treatment and recovery [28:29]
• Gayle shares why it was important for her to go to treatment more than 1 time [29:41]
• The role of therapy in Gayle’s treatment [31:23]
• The role a Dietitian played in Gayle’s treatment [33:47]
• Gayle describes how it feels to have written a book about her journey [36:37]
• What Gayle would say to somebody who is in denial about needing help [41:27]
• Who Gayle wrote Illuminate for [43:20]

LEARN MORE
🔥 My Signature 4-Month Program, Nourished & Free
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📖 Check out my Blog for tons of helpful articles

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Transcript

[00:00:01.14]
Welcome to the nourished and free podcast.
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I'm your host,
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Michelle Yates,
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a registered dietitian and this is where we talk all things intuitive eating body
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image and really just how to create a healthy relationship with food.
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I am so honored to be joined today by Gayle Goldstein,
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author of illuminate a memoir and my friend,
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we grew up training at the same dance studio but had no idea that
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we were going through the same bat of restrictive eating behaviors and body
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image challenges.
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Gayle's story is heart wrenching and the fact that she was brave enough to share
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it with the world in illuminate is completely insane and have so much
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respect for her.
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She is one of the strongest,
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most resilient women I know and I cannot wait for you to get to know the
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author behind the sarcastic,
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hilariously dark personality that I have come to love so much a little bit
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about Gayle before we dive in.
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She lives in charleston south Carolina and is currently working on her Masters in
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clinic counseling psychology,
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which is so amazing to me if you read illuminate at
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all and learn how resistant she was to the whole idea of therapy,
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which we will talk a little bit more about in this episode.
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The fact that she is taking her experience and is now
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inspired to have her own career in psychology is
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incredible.
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She graduated with her bachelor's in psychology from Nebraska Westland and
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she's excited to be a therapist for those who are struggling with eating disorders and
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um she feels like it's a vocational calling.
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There would be no greater honor to Gayle than to bear witness to people's journey of
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finding food,
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freedom and safety in their bodies.
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I relate to Gayle so much.
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I'm so excited for you to get to know her.
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I will put the link to purchase illuminate from amazon in the show notes.
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I can't wait for you to get to know Gayle and fall in love with her personality and with her
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story.
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Hello,
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my friend.
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Hello.
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I'm so happy to have you on the show the second that I read your book.
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I was like,
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I hope she will be okay with coming on my show because I really want to talk to her.
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I got your message and I was like,
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yes,
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absolutely.
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So I'm really excited.
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That's an honor.
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I'm so happy to have you here.
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And yeah,
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we actually have known each other for quite a long time,
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a very long time.
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So you and I,
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I feel like we weren't really ever in the same dances.
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We dance at the same studio.
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We were in some classes together,
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but I don't think we're really like on the same,
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I guess like team,
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so to speak.
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Right?
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Yeah.
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Like they're like,
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I filled in once and I think like obviously production bigger stuff,
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but there was always kind of that because I'm like a couple years younger.
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Yeah,
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yeah,
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definitely.
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Like saw you around for a lot for sure.
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So reading eliminate was like man,
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I was like,
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I wish that I had had a chance to be around Gilmore because,
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and I know we kind of talked about this on insta too,
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but we were unknowingly going through a lot of the same things and I think we were both
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very similar in our like kind of tough it out attitude,
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you know what I mean?
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And like maybe stonewall our emotions.
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I just like,
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I can't help but wonder what it would have been like if we had really
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connected during that time,
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but at the same time where both of us were in our journey,
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I don't know that like we would have been open to opening up,
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you know,
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right?
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Absolutely.
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And has been interesting since putting illuminate out there how many
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people who,
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especially from like the dance world have been reached out to me and been like,
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oh my gosh,
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like I was going through this too.
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And it just,
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it shocked me,
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but it didn't at the same time,
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like it made me so sad.
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Like,
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hey,
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we're all collectively going through this horrible experience,
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but no one said anything ever.
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So I do,
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you know,
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sometimes I do wonder,
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but I also recognize had anyone asked me directly about it or I mean,
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and they did,
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I immediately denied it and shut down the conversation so right.
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And I was just the way it was like,
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no,
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I don't know what you're talking about and for me I had this um cover
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story right?
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Of,
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well,
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I'm going to school to be a dietitian so I know what I'm doing.
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And so that was really toxic for me to have that because any concern somebody expressed,
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I was like,
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no,
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you don't,
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like I know more about nutrition than you do.
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I'm being healthy.
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I know what I'm doing even though I'm like,
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sorry.
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But I also really related to you just on how much you felt
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like an outcast,
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right?
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Like you had a lot of grief going on.
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It was hard for you to really feel like you could relate to others,
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right?
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And I was,
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I know we talked about this too.
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Like I felt like a total outcast,
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like I had no idea what was going on and like,
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you know,
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all of you kind of went to the same high school and stuff.
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So I was like,
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I'm just over here like just dancing and then leaving.
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So for you.
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Like,
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I mean,
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that's,
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it's interesting how you can feel really lonely in a room full of people.
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Right?
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Right.
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Yeah.
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I mean I there was always like,
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yes,
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I felt connected to people,
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but at the same time there was this deeper disconnect all the time.
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And I mean,
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not just dance people.
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I mean everyone like there was always like,
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hey,
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at least I'm good at pretending or at least I'm fooling everybody into thinking that I'm
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quote unquote normal,
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but there was always this like deep internal,
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like,
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hey,
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there's something wrong with me and you know,
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kind of unpacking all of that of it,
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not being innate to me,
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but something that like I struggled with and a lot of other people struggled and do struggle
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with.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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How do you think the dance community and the dance culture impacted
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you in your relationship with food and with your body image?
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Yeah.
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I think the culture of dance of the whole wasn't
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necessarily helpful,
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but I also think I wrote about it not being like the,
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cause,
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you know,
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I've heard of,
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you know,
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studios that have very over disordered rules and things like that and I don't,
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I don't necessarily feel like ours what like,
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well it depends on the instructor,
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I guess that's what I like want to say is when you go
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into a ballet class and you're standing at the bar and quite literally having a teacher
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come up and pinch and poke and prod different parts of your body.
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Like,
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I mean it,
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it was,
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and then when you're struggling with your body at the same time,
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it was so like,
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it just made me feel horrible about myself and especially when the comparison to
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other people and you know,
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that young teenage into teenage years and then there's like puberty and body
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development and it's like comparing yourself to 10 year old bodies where it's like,
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that's not,
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that's not normal.
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So I do think that some instructors were better about it than
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others,
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but I think like competitions and I mean just the
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whole,
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the whole idea.
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I mean,
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I remember someone,
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you know,
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we're sitting watching a fellow teammate of mine,
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like her solo and I remember like it was an instructor at the time no longer
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is and you know,
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being like,
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oh,
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you know,
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I wish she would lose a few and she might win.
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And I was like,
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oh my God,
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you know,
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like hearing these horrible things and I'm like,
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so this is the belief,
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I'm going to internalize all of that and I'm gonna do that.
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Like it's just,
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I mean it's horrible.
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It's rough and even if it's not said to you directly,
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you still pick up on it,
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right?
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And that's,
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I mean in the dance culture,
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everybody is talking about what they're eating and I shouldn't be eating as
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fast food,
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but I'm going to anyway because I'm starving and now I feel so fat and whatever.
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I almost wonder if we wouldn't have so many problems with body image in the
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dance world,
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if there were no mirrors.
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I mean we need them right to see what we're doing.
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But I think that was a huge trigger for me.
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It was just always being able to see myself and you know,
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sometimes the mirrors are worked or there's other things and obviously like and dance,
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there's flexibility and you're bending and you know,
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if you're bringing your leg all the way up to the side of your head,
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your stomach is gonna bend increase.
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That's the way that anatomy works.
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But it was like,
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my brain was like,
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oh my God,
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how could it do that?
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Like,
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I mean,
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yeah,
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like how many times would I feel okay about a performance or feel okay about a rehearsal and then go
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back and watch a video or see pictures.
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[00:09:01.03]
And then my entire feeling about it switched to negative because of how I thought I
[00:09:05.21]

[00:09:05.21]
looked.
[00:09:06.17]

[00:09:06.17]
Right,
[00:09:07.11]

[00:09:07.11]
right.
[00:09:08.08]

[00:09:08.08]
Yeah.
[00:09:09.00]

[00:09:09.03]
So for the listeners that don't know your story,
[00:09:12.00]

[00:09:12.00]
right?
[00:09:12.17]

[00:09:12.02]
Walk us through and you don't,
[00:09:14.01]

[00:09:14.01]
I mean obviously you wrote a whole book about it.
[00:09:16.08]

[00:09:16.08]
So like you can do 30,000 ft view if you want,
[00:09:18.22]

[00:09:18.22]
but kind of walk us through the events that took place in your growing up
[00:09:23.16]

[00:09:23.16]
years that led to your eating disorder and your trauma and
[00:09:28.06]

[00:09:28.06]
everything.
[00:09:28.23]

[00:09:28.23]
Yeah.
[00:09:29.21]

[00:09:29.02]
I think like starting at the very beginning like coming into the
[00:09:34.12]

[00:09:34.12]
world,
[00:09:34.23]

[00:09:34.23]
I mean I was set up on a silver platter and that white picket fence life.
[00:09:39.04]

[00:09:39.04]
I mean both my parents were doctors and an older sister and a brother and we had to
[00:09:43.23]

[00:09:43.23]
dot like,
[00:09:44.11]

[00:09:44.11]
I mean it was that that perfect kind of life
[00:09:49.09]

[00:09:49.09]
that you think about and then all hell broke loose and my mom was diagnosed with
[00:09:53.17]

[00:09:53.17]
cancer a couple of times and then she ended up dying when I was nine and then there
[00:09:58.01]

[00:09:58.01]
were other people throughout my life who like I would kind of find myself connecting with other
[00:10:03.07]

[00:10:03.07]
adult women in my life.
[00:10:04.13]

[00:10:04.13]
Either family or not and it felt like every woman that I
[00:10:09.02]

[00:10:09.02]
connected with died like,
[00:10:11.08]

[00:10:11.08]
and so it was like this horrible,
[00:10:13.01]

[00:10:13.12]
I don't,
[00:10:14.06]

[00:10:14.07]
I mean and there's like my own seeking out and re enactment and all of that
[00:10:19.03]

[00:10:19.03]
mesh into it,
[00:10:19.22]

[00:10:19.22]
but there definitely was like this feeling of like I'm the common denominator,
[00:10:23.07]

[00:10:23.07]
like I'm causing this like this was my fault and really taking
[00:10:27.18]

[00:10:27.18]
on responsibility that I didn't need to hold onto.
[00:10:32.09]

[00:10:32.01]
So it was all of that and then I mean,
[00:10:35.19]

[00:10:36.03]
and I think I should,
[00:10:37.13]

[00:10:37.13]
I mean not even think I should have seen a therapist,
[00:10:39.23]

[00:10:39.23]
like right away just to kind of process through everything that was going on,
[00:10:43.18]

[00:10:43.18]
but I was like against it and was super like,
[00:10:48.04]

[00:10:48.04]
I mean,
[00:10:48.24]

[00:10:49.13]
and I think my views about therapy came from society and family and friends of
[00:10:54.11]

[00:10:54.11]
like,
[00:10:55.01]

[00:10:55.02]
like,
[00:10:55.01]

[00:10:55.12]
you know,
[00:10:55.02]

[00:10:55.02]
it's it's a shrink,
[00:10:57.06]

[00:10:57.06]
it's like,
[00:10:57.15]

[00:10:57.15]
it's for crazy people,
[00:10:58.16]

[00:10:58.16]
it's for,
[00:10:59.06]

[00:10:59.06]
you know,
[00:10:59.17]

[00:10:59.17]
weak people,
[00:11:00.15]

[00:11:00.15]
things like that and like not going to school to be a therapist.
[00:11:02.20]

[00:11:02.20]
So,
[00:11:03.09]

[00:11:03.09]
you know,
[00:11:03.21]

[00:11:03.21]
things have taken a 1 80 so the grief and then
[00:11:08.12]

[00:11:08.12]
you add in the lack of belief and like mental health and I think
[00:11:13.09]

[00:11:13.09]
just continued struggles throughout like middle school high school experiencing,
[00:11:18.03]

[00:11:18.03]
you know,
[00:11:18.15]

[00:11:19.00]
I would,
[00:11:19.14]

[00:11:19.14]
I think I want to say,
[00:11:20.10]

[00:11:20.10]
like,
[00:11:20.15]

[00:11:20.15]
typical bullying experiences in a public school system,
[00:11:24.20]

[00:11:24.21]
but it wasn't great for any of like,
[00:11:28.16]

[00:11:28.16]
anything that led up to the full blown eating disorder,
[00:11:32.00]

[00:11:32.00]
body image issues,
[00:11:33.08]

[00:11:33.08]
um,
[00:11:33.18]

[00:11:33.18]
you know,
[00:11:34.04]

[00:11:34.04]
depression,
[00:11:34.16]

[00:11:34.16]
anxiety,
[00:11:35.03]

[00:11:35.03]
all of that.
[00:11:36.10]

[00:11:36.10]
So the first time that I really,
[00:11:40.18]

[00:11:41.01]
I saw a therapist and eating disorder therapist was in high school and it was because of a
[00:11:46.01]

[00:11:46.01]
teacher of mine at school and she pulled me aside and she,
[00:11:49.21]

[00:11:49.21]
she pulled me aside and she was like,
[00:11:51.04]

[00:11:51.04]
what the is wrong with you?
[00:11:52.13]

[00:11:52.13]
And I was like,
[00:11:53.00]

[00:11:53.14]
that's a loaded question and we don't have enough time to answer all that because there's a lot to
[00:11:57.16]

[00:11:57.16]
it.
[00:11:59.06]

[00:11:59.06]
I mean,
[00:12:01.07]

[00:12:01.07]
it was the first time that I think anyone had directly asked
[00:12:06.03]

[00:12:06.03]
me,
[00:12:06.01]

[00:12:06.01]
like,
[00:12:06.23]

[00:12:06.23]
not even asked me,
[00:12:07.19]

[00:12:07.19]
but told me that I wasn't okay because I think she had learned like if someone asked,
[00:12:12.13]

[00:12:12.13]
I was just like,
[00:12:13.01]

[00:12:13.01]
no,
[00:12:13.00]

[00:12:13.00]
I'm good,
[00:12:13.15]

[00:12:13.15]
I'm doing well,
[00:12:14.08]

[00:12:14.08]
how are you?
[00:12:14.02]

[00:12:14.19]
Like,
[00:12:15.12]

[00:12:15.13]
immediately denying it,
[00:12:17.15]

[00:12:17.20]
you know?
[00:12:18.03]

[00:12:18.03]
And so then the first time I saw an eating disorder therapist and saw an eating disorder
[00:12:22.10]

[00:12:22.10]
dietitian and the things that they were saying internally,
[00:12:26.18]

[00:12:26.18]
I knew I was like,
[00:12:27.13]

[00:12:27.13]
oh,
[00:12:28.02]

[00:12:28.02]
like,
[00:12:28.11]

[00:12:28.11]
shoot,
[00:12:29.03]

[00:12:29.03]
like,
[00:12:29.09]

[00:12:29.01]
yeah,
[00:12:29.16]

[00:12:29.16]
like that actually does reflect my internal world,
[00:12:33.10]

[00:12:33.10]
but I wasn't gonna admit it until I did.
[00:12:36.01]

[00:12:36.11]
And so,
[00:12:37.16]

[00:12:37.17]
you know,
[00:12:37.24]

[00:12:37.24]
doing different levels of care,
[00:12:39.13]

[00:12:39.13]
different treatment stays each,
[00:12:41.15]

[00:12:41.15]
I think built on each other,
[00:12:43.14]

[00:12:43.14]
I'm kind of going from like this place of total denial total,
[00:12:48.10]

[00:12:48.10]
like,
[00:12:49.04]

[00:12:49.04]
it's all about food,
[00:12:50.01]

[00:12:50.01]
it's all about the body,
[00:12:51.04]

[00:12:51.04]
there's nothing deeper underlying it to actually being curious about the function
[00:12:56.02]

[00:12:56.02]
of it all.
[00:12:57.00]

[00:12:57.00]
It's really short synopsis of it all,
[00:12:58.23]

[00:12:58.23]
but also a mouthful,
[00:13:00.11]

[00:13:00.11]
because,
[00:13:00.02]

[00:13:00.02]
like,
[00:13:00.21]

[00:13:00.21]
a lot happened in all of that too.
[00:13:02.02]

[00:13:02.22]
Yeah,
[00:13:04.00]

[00:13:04.06]
so I think it's good because you mentioned how dance did not
[00:13:08.23]

[00:13:08.23]
cause the eating disorder,
[00:13:10.05]

[00:13:10.05]
right?
[00:13:10.01]

[00:13:10.01]
It might have contributed,
[00:13:11.13]

[00:13:11.13]
but what was really going on underneath all of this was just the
[00:13:16.03]

[00:13:16.03]
trauma that was that was there in your life that had kind of gone unprocessed,
[00:13:20.00]

[00:13:20.00]
right?
[00:13:20.18]

[00:13:20.18]
Right?
[00:13:21.08]

[00:13:21.08]
And this self became of I'm the reason that these people in my life
[00:13:25.18]

[00:13:25.18]
keep dropping,
[00:13:26.23]

[00:13:26.23]
like,
[00:13:27.04]

[00:13:27.04]
flies or whatever.
[00:13:28.11]

[00:13:28.11]
And so you had kind of talked about in your book
[00:13:32.21]

[00:13:32.02]
how you had started to experiment with self harm,
[00:13:36.05]

[00:13:36.05]
and then we're like,
[00:13:36.17]

[00:13:36.18]
well,
[00:13:37.00]

[00:13:37.03]
you know,
[00:13:37.07]

[00:13:37.07]
that's a little bit too obvious,
[00:13:38.14]

[00:13:38.14]
people will know.
[00:13:40.04]

[00:13:40.04]
So then in eating disorder was kind of your form of punishing
[00:13:45.04]

[00:13:45.04]
yourself,
[00:13:45.14]

[00:13:45.14]
right?
[00:13:46.02]

[00:13:46.02]
Absolutely.
[00:13:47.06]

[00:13:47.06]
I mean,
[00:13:47.22]

[00:13:48.18]
and it was so normal,
[00:13:52.10]

[00:13:52.10]
I think,
[00:13:53.12]

[00:13:53.13]
and almost like,
[00:13:54.10]

[00:13:54.11]
I mean,
[00:13:54.22]

[00:13:54.23]
yeah,
[00:13:55.06]

[00:13:55.06]
like being praised for dieting as a
[00:13:59.02]

[00:13:59.02]
preteen teen and,
[00:14:01.19]

[00:14:01.19]
like,
[00:14:02.05]

[00:14:02.13]
like how you said earlier,
[00:14:03.15]

[00:14:03.15]
like,
[00:14:03.02]

[00:14:03.02]
no,
[00:14:03.23]

[00:14:03.23]
like,
[00:14:04.03]

[00:14:04.03]
I'm a dietician,
[00:14:04.18]

[00:14:04.18]
I know what I'm doing,
[00:14:05.11]

[00:14:05.11]
I'm healthy and it was that same thing of,
[00:14:07.06]

[00:14:07.06]
like,
[00:14:07.19]

[00:14:07.19]
you know,
[00:14:08.00]

[00:14:08.00]
I'm healthy,
[00:14:08.15]

[00:14:08.15]
like,
[00:14:08.21]

[00:14:08.21]
I'm I'm choosing to eat,
[00:14:10.18]

[00:14:10.18]
quote unquote clean.
[00:14:11.02]

[00:14:11.02]
I'm,
[00:14:12.02]

[00:14:12.02]
you know,
[00:14:12.07]

[00:14:12.07]
I'm choosing to be vegetarian for no other reason than to have an excuse to not eat a
[00:14:17.06]

[00:14:17.06]
whole food group.
[00:14:18.04]

[00:14:18.04]
Like there are,
[00:14:19.11]

[00:14:19.11]
you know,
[00:14:19.15]

[00:14:19.15]
I'm definitely like morals and values that go into vegetarianism for some people and I
[00:14:24.05]

[00:14:24.01]
hid behind that.
[00:14:25.08]

[00:14:25.08]
But I mean it was never that it was always,
[00:14:28.11]

[00:14:28.01]
I was always like,
[00:14:29.21]

[00:14:29.21]
well no,
[00:14:30.23]

[00:14:30.23]
I just have an excuse.
[00:14:32.09]

[00:14:32.09]
Yeah,
[00:14:33.01]

[00:14:33.07]
yeah.
[00:14:33.20]

[00:14:33.20]
And I really loved your,
[00:14:36.05]

[00:14:36.06]
your explanation of being in the dietitians office,
[00:14:39.06]

[00:14:39.06]
right?
[00:14:39.16]

[00:14:39.16]
And her talking about how going over your lab work and being like,
[00:14:43.19]

[00:14:43.19]
well,
[00:14:43.22]

[00:14:43.22]
this is actually pretty normal and an eating disorder body that it starts
[00:14:48.00]

[00:14:48.00]
to,
[00:14:49.01]

[00:14:49.01]
you know,
[00:14:49.23]

[00:14:49.24]
survive and protect itself and your denial of like,
[00:14:54.06]

[00:14:54.06]
I don't know what she's talking about,
[00:14:55.01]

[00:14:55.01]
Like that's not me because I don't have anything sort of right?
[00:14:58.18]

[00:14:58.18]
And then the reality of it crashing down for you happened right?
[00:15:03.07]

[00:15:03.07]
When you were like,
[00:15:04.13]

[00:15:04.14]
oh,
[00:15:04.20]

[00:15:04.20]
there's a point to difference in this scale and now I'm having like a panic attack about
[00:15:09.15]

[00:15:09.15]
that.
[00:15:09.23]

[00:15:09.23]
And so was that kind of like the moment for you that you were like,
[00:15:14.08]

[00:15:15.01]
alright,
[00:15:15.20]

[00:15:15.20]
maybe there's some truth to this.
[00:15:18.00]

[00:15:18.01]
That was,
[00:15:18.13]

[00:15:18.13]
I think definitely one of the first moments,
[00:15:20.19]

[00:15:20.02]
you know,
[00:15:21.01]

[00:15:21.01]
now looking back,
[00:15:22.01]

[00:15:22.01]
I'm like,
[00:15:22.22]

[00:15:22.22]
well,
[00:15:23.15]

[00:15:23.15]
because I put clothes on to go to the dieticians office,
[00:15:26.06]

[00:15:26.06]
whereas when I weighed myself that morning,
[00:15:28.03]

[00:15:28.04]
you know,
[00:15:28.20]

[00:15:28.20]
like,
[00:15:29.14]

[00:15:29.14]
I mean,
[00:15:29.24]

[00:15:29.24]
it's it's so when I look back,
[00:15:32.17]

[00:15:32.17]
I'm like,
[00:15:32.23]

[00:15:32.23]
that's so it feels silly now,
[00:15:35.06]

[00:15:35.06]
but I'm like,
[00:15:35.14]

[00:15:35.14]
at that time,
[00:15:36.04]

[00:15:36.04]
I mean,
[00:15:36.10]

[00:15:36.10]
it was crushing,
[00:15:38.22]

[00:15:38.22]
crushing.
[00:15:40.00]

[00:15:40.00]
And obviously we were like,
[00:15:42.01]

[00:15:42.01]
I was doing blind weights,
[00:15:43.09]

[00:15:43.09]
but I,
[00:15:43.22]

[00:15:44.09]
you know,
[00:15:44.23]

[00:15:44.23]
sneakily looked over her shoulder or something because I wanted to know.
[00:15:48.18]

[00:15:48.18]
And I mean,
[00:15:49.02]

[00:15:49.02]
and it absolutely broke me.
[00:15:51.11]

[00:15:51.11]
And I remember her just like sitting there wide eyed staring at me and just kind of being
[00:15:56.02]

[00:15:56.02]
like,
[00:15:56.19]

[00:15:56.20]
yeah,
[00:15:57.05]

[00:15:57.06]
like this is not a normal reaction to that.
[00:15:59.19]

[00:15:59.02]
And you know,
[00:16:01.13]

[00:16:01.13]
being like,
[00:16:01.20]

[00:16:01.20]
okay,
[00:16:02.04]

[00:16:02.04]
like I'll try this program that you're talking about.
[00:16:06.03]

[00:16:06.03]
I don't think I need it.
[00:16:07.00]

[00:16:07.05]
I don't want to be there,
[00:16:08.13]

[00:16:08.20]
but you know,
[00:16:09.02]

[00:16:09.19]
I'll humor you.
[00:16:11.07]

[00:16:11.08]
Um and that really was kind of the start of it all.
[00:16:13.21]

[00:16:13.21]
Yeah,
[00:16:14.07]

[00:16:14.01]
almost like spitefully like,
[00:16:15.20]

[00:16:15.20]
I'll prove to you that I don't need this,
[00:16:17.14]

[00:16:17.14]
right?
[00:16:18.06]

[00:16:18.13]
Exactly.
[00:16:19.07]

[00:16:19.07]
That that's I mean,
[00:16:20.02]

[00:16:20.02]
that's the whole reason I even went to my positions office and did the lab work and did everything they asked me to
[00:16:24.24]

[00:16:24.24]
do and then it comes out all perfect and healthy.
[00:16:28.23]

[00:16:28.23]
And I was like,
[00:16:29.17]

[00:16:29.02]
see I'm healthy,
[00:16:31.23]

[00:16:31.23]
I'm what I'm doing is normal.
[00:16:34.05]

[00:16:34.05]
And they were like,
[00:16:34.23]

[00:16:34.24]
no,
[00:16:35.11]

[00:16:35.11]
that's just how the body works.
[00:16:36.22]

[00:16:36.22]
Like,
[00:16:38.09]

[00:16:38.09]
something like learn about that again.
[00:16:40.20]

[00:16:40.20]
Like,
[00:16:41.00]

[00:16:41.01]
internally I was like,
[00:16:42.02]

[00:16:42.02]
oh,
[00:16:42.05]

[00:16:42.05]
that makes sense.
[00:16:42.22]

[00:16:42.22]
But externally.
[00:16:43.14]

[00:16:43.14]
I was like,
[00:16:44.04]

[00:16:44.04]
no,
[00:16:45.05]

[00:16:45.05]
I'm fine.
[00:16:46.01]

[00:16:46.01]
Yeah.
[00:16:46.24]

[00:16:46.24]
Leave me alone.
[00:16:47.16]

[00:16:47.17]
So I think there is this like this hesitation for a lot of people to get
[00:16:52.12]

[00:16:52.12]
help with their eating disorder because they don't think they're sick enough and that
[00:16:57.01]

[00:16:57.01]
was,
[00:16:57.14]

[00:16:57.14]
you know,
[00:16:58.06]

[00:16:58.06]
that's a really good example.
[00:16:59.10]

[00:16:59.10]
I was like,
[00:16:59.16]

[00:16:59.16]
well the labs look great.
[00:17:00.02]

[00:17:00.02]
Like my weight is maybe in a normal range for B.
[00:17:03.08]

[00:17:03.08]
M.
[00:17:03.11]

[00:17:03.11]
I.
[00:17:03.15]

[00:17:03.15]
Like we come up with all these reasons why we're not sick enough,
[00:17:06.02]

[00:17:06.02]
right?
[00:17:06.15]

[00:17:06.16]
And continuing to deny,
[00:17:09.02]

[00:17:09.02]
deny,
[00:17:09.12]

[00:17:09.12]
deny that we have anything that needs help.
[00:17:11.11]

[00:17:11.11]
So for you,
[00:17:13.01]

[00:17:13.01]
what do you think we're like some of those boxes that you were like,
[00:17:16.16]

[00:17:16.16]
that has to be checked in order for me to be sick enough for help?
[00:17:20.02]

[00:17:20.17]
I mean,
[00:17:21.18]

[00:17:21.19]
I think I could make,
[00:17:23.14]

[00:17:23.14]
I mean,
[00:17:23.20]

[00:17:23.20]
I did make these arbitrary boxes that I thought needed to have happen.
[00:17:28.18]

[00:17:29.04]
But then at the end of the day also realizing like even if and when I reached these
[00:17:33.02]

[00:17:33.19]
boxes,
[00:17:34.14]

[00:17:34.14]
it was never enough.
[00:17:35.10]

[00:17:35.10]
Like they're always needed to be more.
[00:17:37.05]

[00:17:37.05]
So it was like in my mind and I think in a lot of people's mind when they hear the term
[00:17:42.04]

[00:17:42.04]
eating disorder,
[00:17:42.21]

[00:17:42.21]
they think someone diagnosed with a restrictive eating disorder laid up in a hospital,
[00:17:47.12]

[00:17:47.12]
that absolute,
[00:17:48.13]

[00:17:48.14]
you know,
[00:17:49.05]

[00:17:49.00]
skeleton of a human and a feeding too.
[00:17:50.24]

[00:17:50.24]
Like that was like my vision that I had where there's a lot that happens before
[00:17:55.21]

[00:17:55.21]
that that is clinically and medically significant.
[00:18:00.17]

[00:18:00.02]
And so I do.
[00:18:01.12]

[00:18:01.12]
I think the lab work weight was a huge one for me as I think it is for a lot of
[00:18:06.01]

[00:18:06.01]
people being like,
[00:18:08.00]

[00:18:08.01]
oh,
[00:18:08.06]

[00:18:08.06]
well,
[00:18:08.02]

[00:18:08.17]
you know,
[00:18:08.24]

[00:18:09.00]
my B.
[00:18:09.10]

[00:18:09.10]
M.
[00:18:09.13]

[00:18:09.13]
I or my where it's like,
[00:18:11.01]

[00:18:11.01]
no,
[00:18:11.07]

[00:18:11.07]
like B.
[00:18:11.16]

[00:18:11.16]
M.
[00:18:11.19]

[00:18:11.19]
I.
[00:18:11.23]

[00:18:11.23]
Is not a thing.
[00:18:13.05]

[00:18:13.05]
It's not like,
[00:18:14.17]

[00:18:14.02]
like someone like a mathematician,
[00:18:17.22]

[00:18:17.22]
I mean you obviously know more about it than I do,
[00:18:19.18]

[00:18:19.18]
but I was like,
[00:18:20.08]

[00:18:20.08]
it's not how it works and just holding holding strong
[00:18:25.05]

[00:18:25.05]
to that and you know,
[00:18:27.06]

[00:18:27.06]
not having like the same intensity of symptoms as other people and so using
[00:18:32.05]

[00:18:32.05]
it all as fuel.
[00:18:33.07]

[00:18:33.14]
Absolutely.
[00:18:34.11]

[00:18:34.11]
And it's like what we see in Hollywood or in movies or whatever is
[00:18:39.05]

[00:18:39.05]
that emaciated a skeleton with a feeding
[00:18:43.16]

[00:18:43.16]
to like just the absolute extreme which absolutely
[00:18:48.14]

[00:18:48.14]
can happen,
[00:18:49.02]

[00:18:49.00]
right?
[00:18:49.08]

[00:18:49.08]
And I don't want to invalidate that at all because that's what I was gonna say,
[00:18:52.12]

[00:18:52.12]
it's like it does happen and it happens too often.
[00:18:56.04]

[00:18:56.04]
And I think and I've talked to people who have been in that
[00:19:00.15]

[00:19:00.15]
situation and that's still not enough you get there and it's still not
[00:19:05.02]

[00:19:05.02]
enough.
[00:19:05.20]

[00:19:05.20]
Yes.
[00:19:07.03]

[00:19:07.03]
And that's the reality of a malnourished brain is that it doesn't process well.
[00:19:11.18]

[00:19:11.18]
And it's it's a misunderstanding of
[00:19:16.04]

[00:19:16.04]
the severity of something,
[00:19:18.04]

[00:19:18.04]
right?
[00:19:18.15]

[00:19:18.15]
And continuing to like justify and increase the
[00:19:23.01]

[00:19:23.01]
threshold of what's bad enough,
[00:19:24.22]

[00:19:24.22]
you know?
[00:19:25.12]

[00:19:25.12]
Um So that's I love your point on that,
[00:19:28.13]

[00:19:28.13]
that even if I had checked the boxes,
[00:19:30.02]

[00:19:30.17]
I still would have created more,
[00:19:32.06]

[00:19:32.06]
I still would have had something else that would have had to have,
[00:19:35.23]

[00:19:35.23]
I would have had to meet that criteria before thinking I was sick enough.
[00:19:39.06]

[00:19:39.06]
And so you just would have never gotten help,
[00:19:40.23]

[00:19:40.23]
right?
[00:19:41.07]

[00:19:41.07]
And that's what is dangerous about that
[00:19:45.19]

[00:19:45.19]
mentality of I'm just gonna wait because we never get sick enough in our minds,
[00:19:50.19]

[00:19:50.19]
right?
[00:19:51.00]

[00:19:51.00]
We never get bad enough.
[00:19:52.09]

[00:19:52.17]
Um and for you,
[00:19:53.02]

[00:19:53.02]
it was like,
[00:19:54.12]

[00:19:54.12]
I needed somebody else to be like,
[00:19:56.17]

[00:19:56.18]
no,
[00:19:57.01]

[00:19:57.12]
you're doing this asking,
[00:20:00.05]

[00:20:00.05]
they had to tell,
[00:20:01.12]

[00:20:01.01]
you know,
[00:20:02.10]

[00:20:02.10]
like there's something wrong with you.
[00:20:04.09]

[00:20:04.09]
And I'd be like,
[00:20:05.12]

[00:20:05.12]
if you say so,
[00:20:07.01]

[00:20:07.15]
yeah,
[00:20:08.15]

[00:20:08.15]
almost there's also this sense of relief of like,
[00:20:11.14]

[00:20:11.01]
oh,
[00:20:12.01]

[00:20:12.01]
someone sees me,
[00:20:13.01]

[00:20:13.07]
Someone recognizes that I'm not
[00:20:18.04]

[00:20:18.04]
not in a good headspace.
[00:20:19.17]

[00:20:19.17]
So.
[00:20:20.16]

[00:20:20.16]
And do you think that's kind of what you were longing for for a long time?
[00:20:24.08]

[00:20:24.08]
Absolutely,
[00:20:25.16]

[00:20:25.16]
absolutely.
[00:20:26.14]

[00:20:26.14]
I was and I mean even years into treatment stuck in this push pull
[00:20:31.05]

[00:20:31.05]
cycle of like,
[00:20:32.01]

[00:20:32.01]
okay,
[00:20:32.07]

[00:20:32.07]
I'm going to do all of these things that are going to concern people not going to come in and they're going to try and
[00:20:37.04]

[00:20:37.04]
help me and when they get close enough,
[00:20:38.16]

[00:20:38.16]
I mean like I'm fine push them away and then start it all over again.
[00:20:42.01]

[00:20:42.06]
Like,
[00:20:42.24]

[00:20:42.24]
almost like it was like this not intentionally,
[00:20:45.10]

[00:20:45.10]
like it was a game and I didn't recognize it at the time.
[00:20:48.13]

[00:20:48.13]
But looking back,
[00:20:49.10]

[00:20:49.10]
I was like,
[00:20:49.22]

[00:20:49.22]
yeah,
[00:20:50.01]

[00:20:50.07]
like that's what I was doing because I mean when
[00:20:54.02]

[00:20:54.02]
people pay attention and when they care and are concerned there's a
[00:20:59.14]

[00:20:59.14]
piece of that,
[00:21:00.09]

[00:21:00.09]
that feels good.
[00:21:02.15]

[00:21:02.16]
I think it feels like like,
[00:21:05.14]

[00:21:05.14]
oh,
[00:21:05.21]

[00:21:05.02]
like someone is paying attention and yeah,
[00:21:09.03]

[00:21:09.03]
I mean it definitely,
[00:21:10.03]

[00:21:10.03]
definitely was stuck in that push pull cycle for a long time and it wasn't
[00:21:14.02]

[00:21:14.02]
until I was able to like actually speak my knees
[00:21:19.05]

[00:21:19.05]
and you know,
[00:21:20.07]

[00:21:20.07]
get what I needed without doing this horrible roundabout way is when it all like
[00:21:25.03]

[00:21:25.03]
switch,
[00:21:25.14]

[00:21:25.14]
it's like,
[00:21:25.20]

[00:21:25.20]
no,
[00:21:25.23]

[00:21:25.23]
like actually if you just say,
[00:21:27.09]

[00:21:27.09]
hey,
[00:21:27.17]

[00:21:27.17]
I'm feeling kind of lonely right now,
[00:21:28.02]

[00:21:28.02]
like I wanna like,
[00:21:30.04]

[00:21:30.05]
let's have like a movie,
[00:21:31.01]

[00:21:31.01]
like,
[00:21:31.15]

[00:21:31.15]
hey,
[00:21:31.20]

[00:21:31.20]
I'm feeling this instead of trying to like create this elaborate maze
[00:21:36.18]

[00:21:36.18]
that no one is ever going to figure out.
[00:21:38.12]

[00:21:38.12]
And if they get to the end,
[00:21:40.23]

[00:21:40.23]
it's like you just like pop them right back to the beginning.
[00:21:44.03]

[00:21:44.03]
So yeah,
[00:21:46.24]

[00:21:47.20]
I love that visual.
[00:21:49.10]

[00:21:50.10]
Yeah.
[00:21:51.01]

[00:21:51.02]
So when you finally did get to a place of like,
[00:21:55.12]

[00:21:55.12]
alright,
[00:21:56.04]

[00:21:56.04]
I'll either appease these people or maybe there's some truth to this,
[00:21:59.01]

[00:21:59.01]
I will go to treatment right?
[00:22:01.15]

[00:22:01.15]
And you're at a residential place,
[00:22:04.03]

[00:22:04.03]
right?
[00:22:04.18]

[00:22:04.18]
So what did a typical day look like
[00:22:09.16]

[00:22:09.16]
for either?
[00:22:10.15]

[00:22:12.00]
Yeah,
[00:22:12.17]

[00:22:12.02]
so typical day is,
[00:22:14.01]

[00:22:14.01]
I mean get up 5 36 6 o'clock
[00:22:19.03]

[00:22:19.03]
weights,
[00:22:19.12]

[00:22:19.12]
vitals doing like Ortho static,
[00:22:21.15]

[00:22:21.15]
doing,
[00:22:22.05]

[00:22:22.06]
you know,
[00:22:22.14]

[00:22:22.14]
sometimes there are days where you had to do lab draws and all that like medical side of eating a shorter treatment
[00:22:27.12]

[00:22:27.23]
and then I mean it was breakfast,
[00:22:30.06]

[00:22:30.06]
group snack,
[00:22:31.06]

[00:22:31.06]
group,
[00:22:31.17]

[00:22:31.18]
lunch,
[00:22:32.06]

[00:22:32.06]
group snack,
[00:22:33.06]

[00:22:33.06]
group dinner,
[00:22:34.03]

[00:22:34.04]
group snack that like,
[00:22:35.22]

[00:22:35.22]
like,
[00:22:36.04]

[00:22:36.04]
I mean all day you're eating and then you have group therapy and then sprinkled in their
[00:22:40.01]

[00:22:40.15]
individual sessions with a psychiatrist,
[00:22:43.08]

[00:22:43.08]
dietitian and your therapist.
[00:22:45.14]

[00:22:45.01]
Um and so,
[00:22:46.12]

[00:22:46.12]
I mean they purposely keep you super busy with recovery
[00:22:51.02]

[00:22:51.02]
oriented things,
[00:22:52.09]

[00:22:52.09]
which they hated.
[00:22:55.09]

[00:22:55.09]
Um and I mean,
[00:22:57.01]

[00:22:57.01]
I think everyone there did for the most part.
[00:22:59.04]

[00:22:59.04]
So I mean it was,
[00:23:01.03]

[00:23:01.04]
it was a lot to do.
[00:23:02.21]

[00:23:02.21]
I doubt anybody is in treatment.
[00:23:04.12]

[00:23:04.12]
Like I love this,
[00:23:06.01]

[00:23:06.02]
so happy to be here.
[00:23:08.13]

[00:23:08.13]
I love being told what to do all day
[00:23:12.16]

[00:23:12.16]
long.
[00:23:13.20]

[00:23:13.20]
You want to see that you like,
[00:23:15.08]

[00:23:15.08]
don't wanna hear.
[00:23:16.13]

[00:23:16.13]
Like,
[00:23:17.06]

[00:23:17.06]
like we were allowed to have,
[00:23:18.21]

[00:23:18.02]
remember,
[00:23:19.06]

[00:23:19.06]
what did they call them?
[00:23:20.16]

[00:23:20.19]
Like you like could like identify a couple like specific foods that you just didn't
[00:23:25.01]

[00:23:25.01]
like.
[00:23:26.15]

[00:23:26.15]
Like you wouldn't be given that.
[00:23:28.07]

[00:23:28.07]
But it was like,
[00:23:29.12]

[00:23:29.01]
I didn't know what I liked,
[00:23:30.21]

[00:23:30.21]
what I didn't like,
[00:23:31.20]

[00:23:31.21]
so serve whatever it is that was for lunch.
[00:23:36.18]

[00:23:36.19]
And then all of a sudden I realized like,
[00:23:38.03]

[00:23:38.03]
hey,
[00:23:38.06]

[00:23:38.06]
I don't like this,
[00:23:39.12]

[00:23:39.12]
but you have to eat it.
[00:23:41.06]

[00:23:41.06]
And so it's,
[00:23:42.04]

[00:23:42.04]
it's doing the thing you hate most six times a day.
[00:23:46.10]

[00:23:47.08]
Yeah.
[00:23:48.00]

[00:23:51.04]
If you are absolutely loving this podcast,
[00:23:53.20]

[00:23:53.20]
can you just do me a really quick favor and exit out of this?
[00:23:57.08]

[00:23:57.08]
Go to the show and leave me a five star rating or if you're like
[00:24:01.19]

[00:24:01.19]
so thrilled with this,
[00:24:03.19]

[00:24:03.19]
that you can barely contain yourself and you just have to talk about it,
[00:24:07.08]

[00:24:07.08]
Leave a comment even better.
[00:24:09.05]

[00:24:09.05]
This really,
[00:24:09.22]

[00:24:09.22]
really helps me to be found when people are searching for a podcast to help heal their
[00:24:14.10]

[00:24:14.10]
relationship with food and if you agree with me,
[00:24:16.01]

[00:24:16.01]
you agree with my mission and you feel like I'm doing good work.
[00:24:20.13]

[00:24:20.13]
It is so,
[00:24:21.19]

[00:24:21.19]
so meaningful to me when you leave something as small as a five star review because that really does help
[00:24:26.18]

[00:24:26.18]
me to continue helping others.
[00:24:28.12]

[00:24:28.12]
And if you want to go more in depth into healing your relationship with food and actually have the
[00:24:33.11]

[00:24:33.11]
support of a coach and a dietician visit Yates nutrition dot com to see how I
[00:24:38.10]

[00:24:38.10]
can help you personally.
[00:24:40.12]

[00:24:43.20]
So obviously in the moment you hated that right?
[00:24:46.15]

[00:24:46.15]
Most people will hate that.
[00:24:48.03]

[00:24:48.03]
But being now on the outside and looking back retrospectively,
[00:24:52.06]

[00:24:52.06]
what's your kind of take away your thought of,
[00:24:56.03]

[00:24:56.03]
of that structure and the way that they kind of set everything up for you.
[00:25:00.01]

[00:25:00.01]
Um it was needed for sure.
[00:25:02.03]

[00:25:02.03]
It's absolutely what I needed.
[00:25:03.23]

[00:25:03.23]
I think the lack of independence and the lack
[00:25:08.04]

[00:25:08.04]
of being able to be alone was infuriating,
[00:25:12.18]

[00:25:12.18]
but because it was like every opportunity
[00:25:17.10]

[00:25:17.10]
like and it didn't feel aligned with me to be like sneaky or manipulative
[00:25:22.02]

[00:25:22.02]
or to do to do things,
[00:25:24.20]

[00:25:24.20]
but it was like I was like felt compelled to do these like things that I
[00:25:29.20]

[00:25:29.20]
knew that I shouldn't be doing so,
[00:25:32.01]

[00:25:32.01]
I mean,
[00:25:32.06]

[00:25:32.06]
and that's that's why they watch you all the time at all
[00:25:37.00]

[00:25:37.00]
times.
[00:25:37.12]

[00:25:37.12]
Like I mean you can't go to the bathroom by yourself.
[00:25:39.16]

[00:25:39.16]
Like it's it's a in a way,
[00:25:41.16]

[00:25:41.16]
can sometimes be like a dehumanizing experience.
[00:25:44.16]

[00:25:44.16]
But there are definitely ways that it can feel a little bit more human
[00:25:49.15]

[00:25:49.16]
and it's fighting,
[00:25:51.04]

[00:25:51.18]
it's fighting something that is dehumanizing you,
[00:25:54.05]

[00:25:54.06]
right?
[00:25:54.01]

[00:25:54.01]
Like it's fighting the eating disorder wants to
[00:25:57.22]

[00:25:59.15]
to ruin you.
[00:26:01.00]

[00:26:01.00]
You know,
[00:26:01.16]

[00:26:01.16]
And it's so hard when you're in the moment to be like,
[00:26:05.05]

[00:26:05.06]
this is for my benefit.
[00:26:06.15]

[00:26:06.15]
This is for my health.
[00:26:07.20]

[00:26:07.20]
This is for my well being because you're like,
[00:26:10.04]

[00:26:10.04]
let me go to the damn bathroom by myself,
[00:26:13.11]

[00:26:13.12]
you know?
[00:26:14.00]

[00:26:14.03]
But at the same time,
[00:26:15.15]

[00:26:15.15]
you do have this this thing that can really take over in those little moments by yourself.
[00:26:20.09]

[00:26:20.09]
So it's it's really hard for somebody to think of that to realize this
[00:26:25.01]

[00:26:25.01]
is good,
[00:26:25.20]

[00:26:25.20]
right?
[00:26:26.05]

[00:26:26.05]
Like this is needed and valuable.
[00:26:28.21]

[00:26:28.21]
It's just a transition period of like wanting to do it and then not wanting
[00:26:33.17]

[00:26:33.17]
to do everything that I want you to do and then not wanting to do it,
[00:26:37.03]

[00:26:37.03]
but still feeling like you have to remember several times not being
[00:26:42.00]

[00:26:42.00]
compliant with my treatment plan in a variety of different ways and then just like sobbing to my therapist and I
[00:26:47.00]

[00:26:47.00]
was so sorry.
[00:26:48.07]

[00:26:48.07]
Like I didn't want to,
[00:26:50.01]

[00:26:50.01]
I didn't,
[00:26:50.13]

[00:26:50.13]
you know,
[00:26:50.19]

[00:26:50.19]
like,
[00:26:51.02]

[00:26:51.02]
like apologizing and she was like,
[00:26:52.20]

[00:26:52.20]
no,
[00:26:52.24]

[00:26:52.24]
like that's part of the process kind of that that struggle of
[00:26:57.20]

[00:26:57.20]
following what you're supposed to be doing.
[00:26:59.15]

[00:27:00.02]
Yes.
[00:27:00.18]

[00:27:00.18]
The I think that's something that's really hard for my clients is when they
[00:27:05.12]

[00:27:05.12]
relapse,
[00:27:06.06]

[00:27:06.06]
so to speak,
[00:27:07.08]

[00:27:07.08]
whether it's a true relapse or it's just like no,
[00:27:09.12]

[00:27:09.12]
I kind of went back to some things that I don't that I came to you to fix,
[00:27:13.17]

[00:27:13.17]
they get really upset about that and I'm like,
[00:27:17.07]

[00:27:17.01]
like no,
[00:27:18.05]

[00:27:18.05]
this is good,
[00:27:19.05]

[00:27:19.06]
like you've just learned what doesn't work for you again,
[00:27:22.13]

[00:27:22.13]
like you needed a reminder for whatever reason,
[00:27:24.17]

[00:27:24.17]
right?
[00:27:25.02]

[00:27:25.02]
And so now you have this data to correct yourself and continue on the
[00:27:30.01]

[00:27:30.01]
right path.
[00:27:30.19]

[00:27:30.19]
And I think that mindset shift can be so helpful of failures are
[00:27:35.17]

[00:27:35.17]
good because they're teaching you how to succeed.
[00:27:38.03]

[00:27:38.04]
You know,
[00:27:39.11]

[00:27:40.14]
I know what you've learned in a period of like doing well and then if you struggle
[00:27:45.04]

[00:27:45.04]
again,
[00:27:46.01]

[00:27:46.01]
you're not like struggling blindly,
[00:27:48.24]

[00:27:48.24]
like you used to or kind of now you have this awareness and like awareness of how it's not healthy
[00:27:53.02]

[00:27:53.02]
or how it's not good for you in several different ways.
[00:27:58.08]

[00:27:58.08]
Um and that always was like difficult for me.
[00:28:01.15]

[00:28:01.15]
I'm like,
[00:28:01.20]

[00:28:01.20]
okay,
[00:28:02.01]

[00:28:02.01]
I can't even know what I know,
[00:28:03.23]

[00:28:03.23]
like I am moving on moving forward with that.
[00:28:07.11]

[00:28:07.20]
Yeah.
[00:28:08.24]

[00:28:09.00]
And I think that with eating disorder treatment and recovery,
[00:28:12.04]

[00:28:12.04]
there's this like this misconception that you're gonna,
[00:28:16.12]

[00:28:16.13]
if it gets bad enough if you're sick enough,
[00:28:18.09]

[00:28:18.09]
right?
[00:28:18.16]

[00:28:18.16]
You go to treatment and you go once and then you leave and you're good,
[00:28:23.04]

[00:28:23.04]
you're fixed for the rest of your life,
[00:28:24.15]

[00:28:24.15]
right?
[00:28:25.12]

[00:28:25.12]
Be so nice to happen that way of
[00:28:29.20]

[00:28:29.20]
that.
[00:28:30.14]

[00:28:30.01]
I also remember um the treatment center,
[00:28:33.15]

[00:28:33.15]
I went to a good friend of mine and someone that you also know from the dance world
[00:28:38.01]

[00:28:38.15]
went to and I remember like talking to her and being so
[00:28:43.12]

[00:28:43.12]
scared to go and being like,
[00:28:44.16]

[00:28:44.16]
oh,
[00:28:44.23]

[00:28:44.23]
like I'm like,
[00:28:46.00]

[00:28:46.00]
my body is gonna be the outlier here.
[00:28:48.22]

[00:28:48.22]
And she was like,
[00:28:49.10]

[00:28:49.10]
no,
[00:28:49.13]

[00:28:49.13]
no,
[00:28:49.16]

[00:28:49.16]
no,
[00:28:49.18]

[00:28:49.18]
no,
[00:28:49.21]

[00:28:49.21]
no.
[00:28:50.00]

[00:28:50.00]
There are people in all shapes and sizes at every level of care.
[00:28:53.20]

[00:28:53.21]
And I didn't believe her because I had that that Hollywood picture that we talked about
[00:28:58.18]

[00:28:58.18]
in my mind and then you get there and you're like,
[00:29:00.15]

[00:29:01.01]
oh yeah,
[00:29:02.06]

[00:29:02.06]
like everyone,
[00:29:03.01]

[00:29:03.01]
like,
[00:29:03.04]

[00:29:03.04]
you would never,
[00:29:04.01]

[00:29:04.01]
we always kind of joked like as we stepped on the levels of care and were able to kind of go out to restaurants or go on
[00:29:08.22]

[00:29:08.22]
outings.
[00:29:09.18]

[00:29:09.19]
No one would guess how we all knew each other or why we were all
[00:29:14.01]

[00:29:14.01]
together,
[00:29:14.24]

[00:29:14.24]
like instead of instead of book club.
[00:29:16.12]

[00:29:16.12]
Is that a church group?
[00:29:17.14]

[00:29:17.14]
Is that it's like,
[00:29:18.13]

[00:29:18.13]
no,
[00:29:18.20]

[00:29:18.20]
we're all in eating disorder treatment.
[00:29:20.13]

[00:29:20.13]
Like,
[00:29:20.19]

[00:29:20.19]
I mean,
[00:29:21.03]

[00:29:21.03]
no one would have thought that.
[00:29:23.14]

[00:29:23.01]
And so yeah,
[00:29:24.14]

[00:29:24.14]
I mean,
[00:29:25.14]

[00:29:25.14]
I don't even remember where I was going with that,
[00:29:27.06]

[00:29:27.06]
but no,
[00:29:27.24]

[00:29:27.24]
I think that's a good point though.
[00:29:29.12]

[00:29:29.17]
Yeah,
[00:29:30.01]

[00:29:30.10]
that was probably another barrier for you to wanting to go right,
[00:29:33.13]

[00:29:33.13]
like,
[00:29:33.17]

[00:29:33.17]
I don't fit in there.
[00:29:35.18]

[00:29:35.18]
It's,
[00:29:36.08]

[00:29:36.09]
you know,
[00:29:36.15]

[00:29:36.15]
they're going to see my body and like,
[00:29:37.23]

[00:29:37.23]
send me home right away,
[00:29:39.20]

[00:29:39.21]
you know?
[00:29:40.18]

[00:29:40.18]
So why do you think it was important for you to go back the second
[00:29:45.16]

[00:29:45.16]
time?
[00:29:46.12]

[00:29:46.12]
Yeah,
[00:29:47.05]

[00:29:47.00]
going the second time I think was almost harder than going the first time.
[00:29:51.01]

[00:29:51.10]
Sure,
[00:29:52.01]

[00:29:52.07]
because there was like that self blame,
[00:29:56.24]

[00:29:56.24]
judgment,
[00:29:57.14]

[00:29:57.14]
shame,
[00:29:58.00]

[00:29:58.00]
all the things of like,
[00:29:58.19]

[00:29:58.19]
no,
[00:29:58.23]

[00:29:58.23]
like I was better,
[00:29:59.23]

[00:29:59.23]
it was fixed,
[00:30:00.22]

[00:30:00.22]
I was cured than admitting,
[00:30:03.11]

[00:30:03.12]
like,
[00:30:04.05]

[00:30:04.05]
like this actually was like,
[00:30:05.22]

[00:30:05.22]
it still is a problem and like,
[00:30:07.09]

[00:30:07.09]
I do need a little bit more support and so there was this moment and I
[00:30:12.00]

[00:30:12.00]
talked about in the book two of not only like I can't do this
[00:30:16.24]

[00:30:16.24]
anymore,
[00:30:17.02]

[00:30:17.17]
like to function in my life,
[00:30:18.22]

[00:30:18.22]
but I don't want to do this anymore,
[00:30:20.17]

[00:30:20.17]
like,
[00:30:20.02]

[00:30:20.02]
I don't I don't want this to be my world.
[00:30:24.11]

[00:30:24.11]
I mean because when you're struggling with disordered eating,
[00:30:27.15]

[00:30:27.15]
eating this world,
[00:30:28.02]

[00:30:28.02]
like your entire brain space is filled with food and body and there's
[00:30:33.01]

[00:30:33.01]
so much more to life than that and I knew that if
[00:30:37.22]

[00:30:37.22]
I wanted to actually do something with my life,
[00:30:41.09]

[00:30:41.09]
like I needed to figure my sh it out basically and like,
[00:30:45.00]

[00:30:45.00]
free up that brain space and be able to think and heal and focus on
[00:30:49.24]

[00:30:49.24]
things that actually matter to me.
[00:30:52.04]

[00:30:52.04]
Yeah,
[00:30:53.01]

[00:30:53.10]
and what a sign of strength to to recognize that and know this is gonna
[00:30:58.07]

[00:30:58.07]
suck,
[00:30:58.20]

[00:30:58.20]
I hate that,
[00:30:59.09]

[00:30:59.09]
I have to do this,
[00:31:00.12]

[00:31:00.13]
but I actually want to write like,
[00:31:03.08]

[00:31:03.08]
I want to hell Yeah,
[00:31:05.09]

[00:31:05.17]
it was,
[00:31:06.13]

[00:31:06.14]
you know,
[00:31:06.18]

[00:31:06.18]
I mean every time clinicians like encouraged me to go but I think it was the
[00:31:11.12]

[00:31:11.12]
first time that I was the first,
[00:31:13.13]

[00:31:13.13]
well I was on board with it,
[00:31:15.01]

[00:31:15.01]
I guess it was like yeah you're right instead of pushing back and doing that game for
[00:31:20.02]

[00:31:20.02]
weeks,
[00:31:20.13]

[00:31:20.13]
months,
[00:31:20.21]

[00:31:20.21]
whatever,
[00:31:21.02]

[00:31:21.19]
it's like yeah,
[00:31:22.01]

[00:31:22.12]
I agree with you that this is a problem.
[00:31:24.11]

[00:31:24.11]
Yeah,
[00:31:25.11]

[00:31:25.11]
I think eating disorders can be really confusing people to wrap their head around,
[00:31:28.23]

[00:31:28.23]
right,
[00:31:29.06]

[00:31:29.06]
like there's so much going on there and I like to explain it
[00:31:34.01]

[00:31:34.01]
as you know,
[00:31:35.03]

[00:31:35.03]
there's like there's the mental health side of it that's so huge and there's also like a big
[00:31:39.16]

[00:31:39.16]
physical health piece to,
[00:31:41.14]

[00:31:41.01]
there's nutrition,
[00:31:42.22]

[00:31:42.23]
there's psychology,
[00:31:44.10]

[00:31:44.10]
there's also just like regular biology and medical needs,
[00:31:47.15]

[00:31:47.15]
so on the therapy piece of that,
[00:31:51.01]

[00:31:51.01]
obviously that's something you're very passionate about now.
[00:31:54.00]

[00:31:54.06]
What role did therapy play for you in your recovery?
[00:31:58.19]

[00:31:58.20]
Monumental,
[00:31:59.19]

[00:31:59.19]
Like the biggest and most important piece
[00:32:04.06]

[00:32:04.06]
of,
[00:32:04.24]

[00:32:05.00]
I mean,
[00:32:05.18]

[00:32:05.18]
I think arguably my treatment team,
[00:32:07.07]

[00:32:07.08]
obviously I needed a registered dietician,
[00:32:09.09]

[00:32:09.09]
I needed a psychiatrist,
[00:32:10.14]

[00:32:10.14]
I needed a physician,
[00:32:11.14]

[00:32:11.14]
like all of that,
[00:32:12.16]

[00:32:12.16]
but the real root work happened in therapy
[00:32:16.20]

[00:32:16.20]
and my entire perspective on what a therapist
[00:32:21.15]

[00:32:21.15]
was and what they did shifted,
[00:32:25.01]

[00:32:25.02]
you know,
[00:32:25.12]

[00:32:25.12]
it wasn't just this,
[00:32:27.02]

[00:32:27.02]
this person that I was paying to pretend to care about me in my life,
[00:32:30.03]

[00:32:30.03]
like it truly,
[00:32:31.03]

[00:32:31.03]
you know,
[00:32:31.08]

[00:32:31.08]
it's another human in the room with you and I think when you get a therapist that
[00:32:36.01]

[00:32:36.01]
you connect with really well and you form a really strong alliance
[00:32:40.12]

[00:32:40.12]
with the work that you can do together is terrifying and
[00:32:45.03]

[00:32:45.03]
also really important and I think for the,
[00:32:49.13]

[00:32:49.14]
you know,
[00:32:49.21]

[00:32:49.21]
therapists in my mind that I've had like their impact on me,
[00:32:54.00]

[00:32:54.01]
it's like I want to hopefully do that for other people and kind of,
[00:32:59.00]

[00:32:59.01]
I don't know,
[00:32:59.20]

[00:32:59.20]
like I don't even know like be that person that you
[00:33:04.18]

[00:33:04.18]
know,
[00:33:04.20]

[00:33:04.20]
you can yell and scream and cry at and you're just going to stick around
[00:33:09.10]

[00:33:09.10]
like,
[00:33:09.23]

[00:33:09.23]
I don't know,
[00:33:10.01]

[00:33:10.01]
that was definitely the most important piece.
[00:33:13.05]

[00:33:13.09]
Yeah,
[00:33:14.03]

[00:33:14.03]
absolutely.
[00:33:15.12]

[00:33:15.12]
And that just goes to show that eating disorders are not about the food necessarily.
[00:33:19.23]

[00:33:19.24]
I mean there are a little bit but and that's why we have the dietician
[00:33:23.12]

[00:33:25.12]
but yeah,
[00:33:26.11]

[00:33:26.11]
it's not like you can treat anything with just being on a meal plan,
[00:33:30.24]

[00:33:30.24]
meeting with a dietician and making sure that you're at the right weight or whatever for you
[00:33:35.21]

[00:33:35.21]
and then that's it,
[00:33:37.10]

[00:33:37.10]
right?
[00:33:37.18]

[00:33:37.18]
Like that wouldn't help.
[00:33:39.03]

[00:33:39.04]
We need that mental health piece we need to get down to the roots of of what's going on.
[00:33:43.02]

[00:33:43.19]
So on the nutrition side of things,
[00:33:45.18]

[00:33:45.18]
what role do you feel like your dietitian?
[00:33:47.14]

[00:33:47.14]
I know you had a few.
[00:33:48.10]

[00:33:48.10]
So what role do you feel like the dietician played in your recovery huge
[00:33:53.04]

[00:33:53.09]
obviously like first into recovery or new,
[00:33:56.01]

[00:33:56.01]
like dietitian sessions are all about meal plan,
[00:33:58.23]

[00:33:58.23]
they are all about food there,
[00:34:00.13]

[00:34:00.13]
you know,
[00:34:00.20]

[00:34:00.20]
you talk about weight and body and food and like that's what the focus is,
[00:34:04.02]

[00:34:04.19]
but that's not all that dietitians can talk to you about like the further that I got into my
[00:34:09.02]

[00:34:09.02]
recovery,
[00:34:10.23]

[00:34:10.23]
the less we talked about specific meal plans,
[00:34:13.15]

[00:34:13.15]
the less we talked about weight and the more we talked about like
[00:34:17.24]

[00:34:18.15]
it almost became a therapy session.
[00:34:20.06]

[00:34:20.06]
I mean my,
[00:34:20.18]

[00:34:20.18]
especially my outpatient dietician was wonderful,
[00:34:23.23]

[00:34:23.23]
you know,
[00:34:24.01]

[00:34:24.01]
we talked about like the root of like body image concerns and like
[00:34:28.16]

[00:34:29.06]
the,
[00:34:30.02]

[00:34:30.02]
the functions behind the behaviors and not the nitty gritty of the meal plan
[00:34:35.00]

[00:34:35.00]
because for a long time it was like,
[00:34:36.09]

[00:34:36.09]
okay,
[00:34:36.01]

[00:34:36.01]
you're gonna ride out for the week every single thing,
[00:34:39.04]

[00:34:39.04]
like here's what you're exactly what you're gonna have for breakfast,
[00:34:41.13]

[00:34:41.13]
here's what you're going to have for your morning snack and like we did that and then there's a transition
[00:34:46.08]

[00:34:46.08]
period out of doing all of that and into kind of trusting you okay,
[00:34:50.17]

[00:34:50.17]
so like what does food look like this week and we're calling it that way.
[00:34:55.02]

[00:34:55.01]
Yeah,
[00:34:55.15]

[00:34:55.15]
that's awesome,
[00:34:56.00]

[00:34:56.00]
I love that and it is,
[00:34:57.23]

[00:34:57.23]
it's interesting that the role for the dietician and that is,
[00:35:02.03]

[00:35:02.03]
it starts out with a really tight grip on what's going on from a
[00:35:06.17]

[00:35:06.17]
dietary perspective because you need that right?
[00:35:10.05]

[00:35:10.05]
Like you need somebody that is just telling you what to eat and when you know,
[00:35:15.04]

[00:35:15.04]
because you're not going to make that decision yourself and then that group loosens and it
[00:35:20.00]

[00:35:20.00]
becomes more about like where your beliefs around nutrition come from,
[00:35:24.11]

[00:35:24.11]
your beliefs about body,
[00:35:25.02]

[00:35:25.02]
like all of that and it can be an interesting journey if you stick with it long
[00:35:30.14]

[00:35:30.14]
enough,
[00:35:31.04]

[00:35:31.04]
right?
[00:35:31.18]

[00:35:31.18]
Yeah.
[00:35:32.00]

[00:35:32.00]
I think the dietitian can become the bad guy on the treatment team and I think the person
[00:35:36.23]

[00:35:36.23]
usually the person that especially clients of yours don't like the
[00:35:41.17]

[00:35:41.17]
most because I mean there is like
[00:35:46.07]

[00:35:46.11]
there's that strict,
[00:35:47.20]

[00:35:47.20]
like I remember having to email pictures of my plates to my dietician and like
[00:35:52.09]

[00:35:52.09]
using whatever those apps are and like to record what I
[00:35:57.05]

[00:35:57.05]
was doing and always kind of talking about like if you're going to use a behavior like do it,
[00:36:02.02]

[00:36:02.02]
but tell me about it.
[00:36:02.24]

[00:36:02.24]
Like don't lie about it,
[00:36:04.23]

[00:36:04.23]
right?
[00:36:05.14]

[00:36:05.01]
Yeah.
[00:36:06.01]

[00:36:06.07]
So the disdain for the dietician goes away the longer you stick with
[00:36:10.23]

[00:36:10.23]
them.
[00:36:12.04]

[00:36:12.12]
Yeah,
[00:36:13.06]

[00:36:13.06]
sure.
[00:36:14.15]

[00:36:14.16]
Yeah.
[00:36:15.00]

[00:36:15.03]
When I was doing outpatient counseling,
[00:36:17.08]

[00:36:17.08]
I'm taking a break from it right now.
[00:36:18.21]

[00:36:18.21]
But that was like people hated me and I was okay with it.
[00:36:23.09]

[00:36:23.09]
You know,
[00:36:24.04]

[00:36:24.04]
I would say that I'm like you're not gonna like me and that's okay.
[00:36:27.18]

[00:36:27.18]
Like I'm here to help still.
[00:36:29.00]

[00:36:29.01]
It doesn't matter that you don't like me.
[00:36:30.10]

[00:36:30.10]
So yeah,
[00:36:32.00]

[00:36:32.03]
we're really disrupting the coping mechanism,
[00:36:35.04]

[00:36:35.04]
you know,
[00:36:35.14]

[00:36:35.14]
and really like not letting it be a coping mech.
[00:36:38.23]

[00:36:39.06]
Um um So Gayle kind of like through your journey,
[00:36:42.21]

[00:36:42.21]
which is,
[00:36:43.15]

[00:36:43.15]
it's so beautiful that you've shared this with the world and I'm actually really
[00:36:48.09]

[00:36:48.09]
curious with your specific personality,
[00:36:52.00]

[00:36:52.00]
you don't like to talk about your feelings.
[00:36:54.23]

[00:36:55.13]
So how does it feel to have,
[00:36:58.17]

[00:36:58.18]
I mean,
[00:36:58.24]

[00:36:58.24]
you wrote a book and you put it out in the world and now people are reading that,
[00:37:03.01]

[00:37:03.01]
you know,
[00:37:03.20]

[00:37:03.20]
how does that feel for you now?
[00:37:05.18]

[00:37:05.18]
It's interesting that you bring that up literally what I talked about with my therapist this past week
[00:37:10.15]

[00:37:10.15]
because it's actually been really hard.
[00:37:13.06]

[00:37:13.07]
Yeah,
[00:37:13.22]

[00:37:13.22]
I don't regret putting it out there,
[00:37:16.01]

[00:37:16.02]
but there was I mean,
[00:37:17.17]

[00:37:17.17]
it's a big piece of my heart and my story that I kind of put out into the
[00:37:22.16]

[00:37:22.16]
world and anyone who wants to read it can read it.
[00:37:25.02]

[00:37:25.02]
And there's something about that that's freeing and terrifying.
[00:37:30.15]

[00:37:30.15]
Um it I mean,
[00:37:32.07]

[00:37:32.07]
but it has been really hard and people have had lots of feedback,
[00:37:36.20]

[00:37:36.20]
both good constructive and not great and that's
[00:37:41.04]

[00:37:41.04]
fine.
[00:37:41.22]

[00:37:41.22]
Um but it can feel the feedback can feel more
[00:37:46.19]

[00:37:46.19]
personal,
[00:37:47.10]

[00:37:47.10]
especially the negative for other,
[00:37:49.18]

[00:37:49.19]
like less positively skewed um because it is my
[00:37:54.12]

[00:37:54.12]
story and it is my truth.
[00:37:55.18]

[00:37:55.18]
And had I published like a fiction novel,
[00:37:58.00]

[00:37:58.00]
like,
[00:37:58.08]

[00:37:58.08]
I don't think it would mean it would hit me because it would be something that I put so much heart and soul into,
[00:38:02.18]

[00:38:02.18]
but not I don't think as personally because it's I mean
[00:38:07.01]

[00:38:07.07]
it's true through and through and it I mean it can get pretty raw,
[00:38:11.10]

[00:38:11.17]
it's a piece of you,
[00:38:12.21]

[00:38:12.21]
You know,
[00:38:13.17]

[00:38:13.02]
if people have negative feedback about a piece of you,
[00:38:16.23]

[00:38:16.23]
that's really hard to reckon with and it's also hard not to just focus on that and forget about all the
[00:38:21.21]

[00:38:21.21]
positives,
[00:38:22.15]

[00:38:22.15]
right?
[00:38:23.16]

[00:38:23.16]
And there's,
[00:38:24.17]

[00:38:24.18]
you know,
[00:38:25.01]

[00:38:25.01]
people in my life,
[00:38:26.02]

[00:38:26.02]
especially,
[00:38:26.19]

[00:38:26.19]
you know,
[00:38:27.04]

[00:38:27.04]
family members or people who are super close to me and then it's stirring up a lot of
[00:38:32.01]

[00:38:32.01]
emotion for them and guilt and shame and all of these things and
[00:38:36.23]

[00:38:36.23]
then kind of having to remind them of like,
[00:38:38.22]

[00:38:38.22]
no,
[00:38:39.01]

[00:38:39.01]
like you missed the point,
[00:38:40.04]

[00:38:40.04]
like this wasn't to make you feel bad,
[00:38:42.06]

[00:38:42.06]
like I'm glad that you felt things like that was the point.
[00:38:45.21]

[00:38:45.21]
Um but but there wasn't anything else that anyone could have
[00:38:50.09]

[00:38:50.09]
done and I mean there are people close to me,
[00:38:54.06]

[00:38:54.06]
I think who still struggle with that um and like,
[00:38:57.05]

[00:38:57.00]
like why didn't I see it?
[00:38:58.09]

[00:38:58.09]
Like I should have said or should have done it.
[00:39:00.00]

[00:39:00.00]
Like you could have sat down and interrogated me,
[00:39:02.20]

[00:39:02.21]
you know,
[00:39:03.11]

[00:39:03.11]
in the center block room with the hanging light in the middle and I still wouldn't have said
[00:39:07.02]

[00:39:07.02]
anything.
[00:39:08.16]

[00:39:08.16]
So I think kind of remembering that I'm not responsible
[00:39:13.00]

[00:39:13.00]
for other people's emotions.
[00:39:15.21]

[00:39:15.21]
So I mean even even if it did hurt them in a way,
[00:39:20.01]

[00:39:20.10]
kind of trusting that they'll come to me and we can have an honest conversation about it if
[00:39:25.09]

[00:39:25.09]
we need to.
[00:39:26.04]

[00:39:26.04]
Yeah,
[00:39:27.00]

[00:39:27.00]
absolutely.
[00:39:27.23]

[00:39:27.23]
Do you find yourself kind of wanting to recoil again and go back into a
[00:39:32.10]

[00:39:32.10]
shell.
[00:39:33.10]

[00:39:34.14]
Yeah,
[00:39:35.18]

[00:39:35.19]
like I'm like,
[00:39:36.05]

[00:39:36.06]
okay,
[00:39:36.14]

[00:39:36.14]
I'm never gonna tell anyone anything ever again.
[00:39:39.08]

[00:39:39.08]
Yeah,
[00:39:41.05]

[00:39:41.00]
they're definitely like half joked.
[00:39:44.02]

[00:39:44.02]
And I was like,
[00:39:44.13]

[00:39:44.13]
I'm gonna put this out there and then I'm going to go hide in the course for a week and no one can find me and just like,
[00:39:48.22]

[00:39:48.22]
my therapist,
[00:39:49.10]

[00:39:49.10]
like,
[00:39:49.14]

[00:39:49.14]
okay,
[00:39:52.00]

[00:39:52.01]
so,
[00:39:52.05]

[00:39:52.05]
I mean,
[00:39:52.10]

[00:39:52.10]
I did I had like turned off notifications on social media,
[00:39:55.15]

[00:39:55.15]
like,
[00:39:55.20]

[00:39:55.20]
off of my email off my text messages because I was like,
[00:39:58.08]

[00:39:58.08]
I can't like,
[00:40:00.08]

[00:40:00.08]
I I need to be able to look at those things when I have the space to do it
[00:40:05.03]

[00:40:05.03]
instead of kind of being bombarded.
[00:40:07.15]

[00:40:08.06]
Which isn't anyone's fault,
[00:40:09.11]

[00:40:09.11]
like that's that's just what happens when you put something out there.
[00:40:12.05]

[00:40:12.00]
But yeah,
[00:40:13.06]

[00:40:13.07]
it was and still is a lot to kind of wrap my head around that
[00:40:17.23]

[00:40:17.23]
you just kind of feel see through.
[00:40:20.15]

[00:40:20.16]
Absolutely,
[00:40:21.20]

[00:40:21.21]
absolutely.
[00:40:22.14]

[00:40:22.14]
What's next for you?
[00:40:23.21]

[00:40:23.21]
Do you want to continue writing and publishing or is this kind of like a one and done thing?
[00:40:28.12]

[00:40:28.20]
I don't know yet.
[00:40:30.05]

[00:40:30.05]
I mean,
[00:40:30.11]

[00:40:30.11]
I'll always love writing.
[00:40:31.02]

[00:40:31.02]
I'll always love like doing that.
[00:40:33.19]

[00:40:33.19]
I don't know if I need to like,
[00:40:35.13]

[00:40:35.13]
take it in such a formal way again.
[00:40:38.08]

[00:40:38.09]
And yeah,
[00:40:40.00]

[00:40:40.00]
I don't know.
[00:40:40.18]

[00:40:40.18]
I don't know.
[00:40:41.00]

[00:40:41.00]
I think I'm gonna get through grad school for clinical psych and,
[00:40:45.23]

[00:40:45.24]
you know,
[00:40:46.14]

[00:40:46.14]
start working with clients and kind of see,
[00:40:48.18]

[00:40:48.18]
see where life goes.
[00:40:50.06]

[00:40:50.07]
Yeah,
[00:40:51.02]

[00:40:51.02]
I really enjoyed your writing style.
[00:40:53.01]

[00:40:53.07]
I think you definitely gifted.
[00:40:54.21]

[00:40:54.21]
So,
[00:40:55.00]

[00:40:55.00]
if you ever want to publish anything again,
[00:40:57.06]

[00:40:57.06]
I'll be more life
[00:41:01.21]

[00:41:01.21]
experience,
[00:41:02.09]

[00:41:02.09]
which is horrifying.
[00:41:04.19]

[00:41:05.03]
I could see you also just doing like a fiction or something like that.
[00:41:08.16]

[00:41:08.16]
You know,
[00:41:09.01]

[00:41:09.01]
like,
[00:41:09.06]

[00:41:09.06]
you're very good at painting a picture for the reader,
[00:41:11.18]

[00:41:11.19]
so for sure.
[00:41:14.00]

[00:41:14.01]
For sure.
[00:41:14.01]

[00:41:14.15]
So,
[00:41:15.04]

[00:41:15.04]
what would you say to somebody who is really similar to you Gayle?
[00:41:18.02]

[00:41:18.02]
And even to how I was with,
[00:41:21.00]

[00:41:21.00]
like the Stonewall,
[00:41:22.21]

[00:41:22.21]
don't talk to me,
[00:41:23.15]

[00:41:23.15]
don't look at me,
[00:41:24.05]

[00:41:24.05]
don't mess with me,
[00:41:24.02]

[00:41:24.02]
let me do my thing.
[00:41:26.03]

[00:41:26.03]
I'm not sick enough and is even just has that fear of his
[00:41:31.01]

[00:41:31.01]
treatment in any way,
[00:41:32.09]

[00:41:32.09]
whether it's outpatient,
[00:41:33.18]

[00:41:33.18]
outpatient or inpatient and everything in between is disruptive.
[00:41:38.01]

[00:41:38.01]
It's a change.
[00:41:39.00]

[00:41:39.01]
It's something you have to carve into your life.
[00:41:41.03]

[00:41:41.03]
So,
[00:41:42.04]

[00:41:42.04]
what would you say to somebody that's like,
[00:41:44.12]

[00:41:44.12]
really in denial about needing that help?
[00:41:47.02]

[00:41:47.00]
Yeah,
[00:41:47.23]

[00:41:47.24]
I think it was gonna be the people that people get most frustrated with.
[00:41:51.20]

[00:41:51.20]
But those are definitely like my people,
[00:41:53.04]

[00:41:53.04]
I'm like,
[00:41:53.12]

[00:41:53.13]
yes,
[00:41:54.18]

[00:41:54.19]
I like I like the stone wall prickly.
[00:41:59.04]

[00:41:59.04]
Like,
[00:42:00.09]

[00:42:00.09]
I think I would say to be pissed and do it
[00:42:05.05]

[00:42:05.05]
anyway.
[00:42:06.08]

[00:42:06.09]
There's no rule book that says that you need to go into
[00:42:10.22]

[00:42:10.22]
treatment in any level care,
[00:42:13.00]

[00:42:13.06]
you know,
[00:42:13.19]

[00:42:13.20]
hopeful demeanor.
[00:42:16.03]

[00:42:16.04]
You know,
[00:42:16.13]

[00:42:16.13]
you can show up absolutely piste and hopeless and in
[00:42:21.10]

[00:42:21.10]
denial and you will still be respected and welcomed,
[00:42:25.16]

[00:42:25.16]
which is horrible at first and you know,
[00:42:29.19]

[00:42:29.19]
it'll,
[00:42:30.03]

[00:42:30.03]
it'll be okay,
[00:42:31.02]

[00:42:31.02]
I think to give yourself the opportunity to just try it out
[00:42:36.00]

[00:42:36.00]
and see what happens and you know,
[00:42:39.09]

[00:42:39.09]
you go,
[00:42:40.00]

[00:42:40.00]
you try it,
[00:42:40.13]

[00:42:40.13]
you hate it lesson learned I guess.
[00:42:42.16]

[00:42:42.16]
But my hope is that people go try it,
[00:42:45.10]

[00:42:45.11]
learn something and that kind of propels their journey because I don't think anyone
[00:42:50.07]

[00:42:50.01]
needs to stay stuck in an eating disorder,
[00:42:52.21]

[00:42:52.21]
disordered eating any of it.
[00:42:55.04]

[00:42:55.04]
It's a,
[00:42:55.12]

[00:42:55.12]
it's a process,
[00:42:56.09]

[00:42:56.09]
but you don't,
[00:42:56.23]

[00:42:56.23]
you don't need to go into it,
[00:42:58.01]

[00:42:58.01]
like expecting something good,
[00:43:00.17]

[00:43:00.18]
if that makes sense.
[00:43:01.17]

[00:43:01.18]
Yeah,
[00:43:02.11]

[00:43:02.11]
no,
[00:43:02.15]

[00:43:02.15]
that's really helpful.
[00:43:03.18]

[00:43:03.18]
That is really helpful for the personal pessimistic to some people,
[00:43:07.01]

[00:43:07.01]
but you're talking to the person who is
[00:43:11.00]

[00:43:11.00]
probably like bent that way and they need to hear that side.
[00:43:15.13]

[00:43:15.13]
You know,
[00:43:16.07]

[00:43:16.17]
when you wrote this book,
[00:43:17.20]

[00:43:17.20]
I'm curious who is like your ideal reader or did you even have one in
[00:43:22.18]

[00:43:22.18]
mind?
[00:43:23.11]

[00:43:23.11]
No,
[00:43:23.02]

[00:43:23.19]
because it was always the book that I was never going to publish it really,
[00:43:27.12]

[00:43:27.12]
I mean,
[00:43:27.23]

[00:43:27.23]
it just kind of started out as this way for me to
[00:43:32.11]

[00:43:33.01]
like process through my own life and to kind of comb through with this really
[00:43:37.21]

[00:43:37.21]
fine tooth comb and it was amazing for me to realize over
[00:43:42.06]

[00:43:42.06]
time,
[00:43:43.02]

[00:43:43.02]
like the things that I would remember positively and negatively about
[00:43:48.01]

[00:43:48.01]
my life,
[00:43:48.18]

[00:43:48.18]
like there were a lot of things that I had forgotten and then it was like,
[00:43:51.02]

[00:43:51.22]
as you go back,
[00:43:53.00]

[00:43:53.05]
things just kind of popped back up and you're like,
[00:43:55.04]

[00:43:55.04]
oh yeah,
[00:43:56.12]

[00:43:56.12]
so it was,
[00:43:56.22]

[00:43:56.22]
I mean,
[00:43:57.12]

[00:43:57.01]
I don't think I had an ideal reader in mind.
[00:43:59.05]

[00:43:59.05]
I think it was more the hope that someone will read it and resonate with at least
[00:44:03.24]

[00:44:03.24]
part of it.
[00:44:04.18]

[00:44:04.18]
Obviously some more than others just based on life and
[00:44:09.18]

[00:44:09.18]
personality and all the things.
[00:44:11.02]

[00:44:11.17]
But yeah.
[00:44:13.13]

[00:44:13.20]
Yeah,
[00:44:14.09]

[00:44:14.09]
Well,
[00:44:14.14]

[00:44:14.14]
I have no doubt in my mind,
[00:44:15.16]

[00:44:15.16]
whoever is picking up this book is going to be impacted in some way.
[00:44:20.02]

[00:44:20.02]
Even if they don't have your personality or your journey or your story for the same trauma as
[00:44:25.01]

[00:44:25.01]
you.
[00:44:25.15]

[00:44:25.16]
It's still that's the beauty of raw writing is that somebody can at
[00:44:29.02]

[00:44:29.02]
least take away.
[00:44:32.00]

[00:44:32.13]
Here's somebody being incredibly honest and I can learn from that and I can do that in my life too.
[00:44:37.04]

[00:44:37.04]
You know,
[00:44:38.02]

[00:44:38.02]
if you haven't picked up illuminate,
[00:44:40.04]

[00:44:40.04]
it's on amazon right anywhere else
[00:44:43.21]

[00:44:45.07]
as well.
[00:44:45.23]

[00:44:45.23]
Okay.
[00:44:46.19]

[00:44:46.02]
I get it.
[00:44:48.01]

[00:44:48.02]
I mean,
[00:44:48.18]

[00:44:48.18]
I blew through it in like,
[00:44:50.09]

[00:44:50.09]
a day and a half or something like that and Gayle's writing style is
[00:44:55.00]

[00:44:55.00]
incredible.
[00:44:55.20]

[00:44:55.20]
Her honesty is inspirational and it's so
[00:45:00.17]

[00:45:00.17]
cool to see the journey that you had and just your,
[00:45:03.12]

[00:45:03.12]
your acceptance of this is humanity and it's it's going to
[00:45:08.09]

[00:45:08.09]
continue to be this way.
[00:45:09.17]

[00:45:09.02]
And so I might as well just be along for the ride,
[00:45:12.12]

[00:45:12.12]
you know,
[00:45:13.00]

[00:45:13.01]
and enjoy it.
[00:45:14.19]

[00:45:14.19]
Gayle is so honored to know you and I'm so honored to have you on the
[00:45:18.23]

[00:45:18.23]
show.
[00:45:19.22]

[00:45:19.23]
You're such a good oh man.
[00:45:24.08]

[00:45:24.08]
I'm so glad that we ended up in the same space at some point in our life
[00:45:29.08]

[00:45:29.08]
so that we can be connected.
[00:45:31.15]

[00:45:31.15]
I'm so grateful for you.
[00:45:33.03]

[00:45:33.04]
Thank you for being on here.
[00:45:34.09]

[00:45:34.01]
Go pick up illuminate Gayle.
[00:45:36.01]

[00:45:36.01]
Anything else that you're launching or would like to talk about for people to know
[00:45:40.09]

[00:45:40.09]
about that moment?
[00:45:42.13]

[00:45:42.13]
Okay.
[00:45:43.11]

[00:45:43.11]
Still decompressing from one still hiding in the
[00:45:47.14]

[00:45:47.14]
forest.
[00:45:48.14]

[00:45:48.14]
Still hiding in the forest.
[00:45:49.18]

[00:45:49.18]
That's where I'm at.
[00:45:50.17]

[00:45:50.22]
Yeah.
[00:45:52.05]

[00:45:52.06]
Yeah.
[00:45:52.13]

[00:45:52.13]
We'll do Gayle a favor and put it,
[00:45:55.08]

[00:45:55.08]
put it on your list.
[00:45:57.01]

[00:45:57.01]
Give it five stars on amazon so that more people can be inspired by her because I know she's doing big
[00:46:01.12]

[00:46:01.12]
things alright.
[00:46:02.19]

[00:46:02.19]
Gayle thank you so much.
[00:46:05.18]