Key Partners for Transformative Growth

This week Jennifer welcomes both Katie Desiderio and Michael Frino, authors of "The Beekeeper: Pollinating your Organization for Transformative Growth," a Wall Street Journal bestseller. They discuss the importance of having various partners in business, emphasizing the need for accountability, growth, and learning partners. Katie and Michael stress that business owners should seek out partners who offer different perspectives and skills to foster growth and overcome challenges. They also touch on overcoming imposter syndrome, the significance of confident humility, and the idea of partnering with oneself to achieve better self-awareness and success.

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Transcript

Jennifer Johnson: 0:37

Today we welcome into the studio Katie Desdario and Michael Frino. Author of the Beekeeper Pollinating your Organization for Transformative Growth. It's a leadership fable and it's been coined as an essential resource for founders, entrepreneurs, executives and managers. And a huge congratulations to you guys, because it was a Wall Street Journal bestseller.

Katie P. Desiderio: 0:57

Thank you, that is so awesome. Thank you, it is exciting.

Jennifer Johnson: 1:02

As an author myself now, I can totally appreciate how freaking amazing that is.

Katie P. Desiderio: 1:09

It feels a little surreal?

Jennifer Johnson: 1:10

I'm sure it does, yes, and I'm seeing your book everywhere. I've read your book. I love it, thank you, I have my copy on my bookshelf.

Katie P. Desiderio: 1:18

I appreciate that and we'll have your copy on our bookshelf now too.

Jennifer Johnson: 1:22

Yay. Well, today I really wanted to talk about partners that every business owner should have, and I'm not talking about a true and true partner. I'm talking about that virtual bench, if you will, that virtual board of directors, those people that you need to have on your team, because we're not experts at everything right, and we hear time and time again hire for what you're not good at. Okay. So you guys have had a lot of experience in business and in life, and you've both seen it from the corporate world as well. Who do you or how? The top six and maybe it's not the top six, maybe it's less than that who should we, as business owners, have on our virtual bench as business partners?

Michael Frino: 2:14

Certainly love this question. I mean, it's very obvious that you can't know everything, so you definitely need to have people in your life who are focused on things that you're not really great at. So, aside from your accountant, your CPA, your attorneys, maybe someone involved in HR, I think those are some of the essential functions that need to be partners with you. I think it goes beyond that and we talk about this a lot in business.

Michael Frino: 2:41

It's those other partners like your accountability partners, like people are going to hold you accountable to you know, jennifer, you do a great job talking about value creation, right, and you talk a lot about how do you build your personal values, but even organizational values. This is critical, and if you don't have somebody that is helping you making sure that you're not only, you're enacting those, you're not just saying these are important to me, but you're living them in each and every day, you need someone in your life whether they work at your company or outside your company that can help you make sure you're staying true to who you say you are.

Jennifer Johnson: 3:12

That's very true. What do you guys think about mentors? Because I mean that kind of falls in this realm. I mean that kind of falls in this realm?

Katie P. Desiderio: 3:21

Yeah, so mentors, coaches, accountability, partners right, there's different interpretation for all of them, I think to our fault. Many times we think, as you said, I have to do this on my own, I have to have all the answers, and there's a little bit of imposter syndrome that can often creep in as people are growing their businesses, and so I think it's important, as you think about creating partners and thinking about welcoming people, in kind of converting that imposter syndrome to confident humility. So there's a space for us.

Jennifer Johnson: 3:56

So tell me. I want you to elaborate on that when you're done with your thought, because that's important.

Katie P. Desiderio: 4:00

I want you to elaborate on that when you're done with your thought, because that's important, yeah, and so I think it's a little bit of priming right, giving ourselves permission to say I'm growing and I want to surround myself with people who want to grow with me. And when we do that, and a little nod to some of the work that Mike and I are doing right now in building your star system, as we call it right we're brighter better, richer, stronger together and when we effectively build a star system, we're acknowledging that we all shine in a different way, but, oh my goodness, when we come together right, magic can happen.

Katie P. Desiderio: 4:34

And so, in the spirit of confident humility this is also, as we're, you know, welcoming partners there's a space for all of us to acknowledge what we're good at right, those drivers, those things that fuel us, but also the things that make us different in looking at like, wow, I would. I would have never looked at it through that lens, but interesting perspective. My customers might look at it that way, right, or might listen to that message that way. And so there becomes learning opportunities every single day that we're leaning in right, showing up just to be better tomorrow.

Jennifer Johnson: 5:06

And I can totally see that, because when I went into our podcast, I had no idea you know what partners you guys were going to talk about. And I honestly my head I'm thinking, oh, the accountant, like the typical linear things that everybody would think about, right, and Michael, you said accountability partner and I went, oh my God, like how did that not make my list? Yeah, right, because I feel like sometimes and maybe it's not a habit, but maybe it, maybe that's not the right word for it you just become ingrained into. Well, this is what I'm thinking, right, you don't think of the abstract things all the time, right?

Katie P. Desiderio: 5:48

Yeah, well, and I think your listeners are listening because they want to learn and so it's like the first step to say what am I unconsciously limiting in my options for partners? Right, what am I not thinking of? You know, how can people plant seeds to say that might be a good idea? And then how do I kind of self-start to take action?

Jennifer Johnson: 6:08

Right, and you were talking about imposter syndrome and limiting belief kind of things. And before you walked into the room I was having a conversation with Michael and I was telling him about a thing and I said I was asked to do this but I've never done that. I don't think I can do that Like why. You know, there I started right, even though I try to be a champion for not doing that, at the end of the day I'm human.

Michael Frino: 6:36

Yeah.

Jennifer Johnson: 6:37

And I felt that way, and that also shows authenticity. To be like hey, you know I'm not perfect. Even though I try to live and breathe all of this, it's still. You know, I need a cheerleader. To be like no, no, why are you saying that?

Katie P. Desiderio: 6:53

Yeah, well. And two, you're acknowledging that you know you have certain feelings, but you're also demonstrating that you're open to say, well, why am I saying I can't do that? Right, right, so as you build your belief in your ability right, build your self-efficacy it's about having conversations with people like Mike to say, like wow, mike kind of inspired me to say, well, you don't have to look at it that way. You could, you could do that Right. Here's how we start. But that takes a mindset similar to shifting from imposter syndrome to confident humility. How do we shift our mindset to say, let me stop imposter syndrome to confident humility? How do we shift our mindset to say, let me stop, look.

Jennifer Johnson: 7:33

And listen and be present to see what I can do instead of what can't I do Exactly so accountability partner. What other partners?

Michael Frino: 7:39

Yeah. So I think I mean I just want to touch on something you mentioned. Our head sometimes does go to those partners that are going to help us with the fundamentals of running a business, but I think many organizations struggle with this. It's very tactical in nature and they forget about the human element. So when we think about accountability partners, that really brings in those cultural dimensions that are so important to a successful business.

Michael Frino: 8:03

So, aside from accountability partners, Katie and I always talk about growth partners, and so, while someone's holding you accountable to maybe the things that you say you're doing in your company your mission, vision, values, making sure you're living those you do need a growth partner. And you mentioned mentors, but these are individuals who are kind of helping you grow, learn differently, maybe pushing you out of your comfort zone, challenging you to do things, giving you the kind of belief in yourself. And I think they call this the Pygmalion effect right, when we're saying I believe in you, you can do this, Jennifer, you can go out and take on a big company and do coaching. Right, Because someone has to believe in you to do that.

Katie P. Desiderio: 8:42

And that's where we believe in you, yes, we believe in you. Oh, my thank you.

Michael Frino: 8:47

But yeah, for sure, I think a growth partner is important, an accountability partner is important, and we also talk a lot about a partner in learning, okay, and so who can help us learn new ways of doing things? Who can help us learn how to be better as just human beings and how to be better entrepreneurs? And those are all probably different people. They right Hard to have that those people be the same people but that that learning partners could also be the.

Jennifer Johnson: 9:15

I mean that helps you grow right.

Katie P. Desiderio: 9:17

The more you know, the better you, the better you are, and so you know I want to touch on something Mike just mentioned. Mike just mentioned that's important in that space of priming is when I started my consulting work back in 2016, and you think about consultant right, it could be a little bit daunting, right? Of course. Can I do this? Do I have all the answers right? Am I equipped to navigate right this team in their way forward?

Katie P. Desiderio: 9:41

But I refer to myself and I learn this over time as a partner in learning, and when I reach out to people that I work with in the consulting space, it's always your partners in learning, and so I position myself in a space that I'm learning with you, and so I come in with a certain level of subject matter expertise to guide the discussion and to guide our way. But I'm also acknowledging that I'm going to learn in all of those interactions and I'm prepared to say I hadn't thought about that before. I love that you just brought that up. Let's explore it a little bit more, but there might be more work I have to do on my end. And so in that priming right, we position ourselves to say we are partners to each other in learning every time we show up, and that is such a great way to look at it because it opens your mind.

Jennifer Johnson: 10:27

Otherwise, I feel like we come into it with a closed mindset, like if you go in, I'm the consultant and you are the consultee. I know everything about what we're going to do here. It sets the tone and it doesn't always feel great. Yeah, a hundred percent. But I love that you're saying you know you're going to go in and learn too, because we learn every day. It doesn't matter how much you know, how much education you have, you're still learning. I love that. That is so awesome. That is wonderful.

Jennifer Johnson: 10:56

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Jennifer Johnson: 11:25

All right, friends, we are back in the studio with Katie Desdario, did I get that right? Good job, awesome, awesome. And Mike Frino, and we are talking about partners that everyone should have in their business, and we are not talking about your accountant and your attorney. Of course, you need to have those, but we've touched on accountability partner was one big one. A growth partner was another one. So what are some challenges that business owners face when they start bringing in people? That and I call them mentors, but they're much more than that, like we say, they're partners. What are some challenges that the business owners can face when they're bringing someone in?

Michael Frino: 12:14

Yeah, I think you used the word mentors, but when you think about partnership, that's why the word partner is really important in my opinion, a mentor and a mentee have defined roles.

Michael Frino: 12:25

I'm the mentor, you're the mentee, and sometimes it can get lost that they can learn from each other, right?

Michael Frino: 12:33

And so when we talk about partnership and these growth partners, the challenge is that personality styles all play a role, right, you have to find the person who you're aligned to and that maybe you can jive with but also is going to challenge you, and maybe you don't see eye to eye, and that's where I would encourage people to not go and find people that are like-minded, but people who are very different, right, because those differences help people get so much better.

Michael Frino: 13:05

You know, katie and I talk like we. We cannot be more different from a personality style perspective. We've taken our disc profiles, we believe in those and we're on the opposite ends of the spectrum, but that's what makes, I think, our growth partnership work, because I see things one way, she sees them another, and we learn from each other and we're always willing to adapt and grow, and we may not always agree, but we're willing to listen, to comprehend and understand and say, okay, let's find a way where this works together, and that's what I think is important in growth partner. If people aren't willing to do that. That's the challenges that people can face.

Jennifer Johnson: 13:37

And it stretches you right when you're working with somebody that's not just like you. It stretches you. It stretches your mind.

Michael Frino: 13:46

It's a great way to say it.

Katie P. Desiderio: 13:47

Yeah, you know Mike just talked about, for you know, specifically as we think about small business owners, if you have someone come in that wants to help you, there's a progression of let's not listen to respond Because, innately right, our business is our passion project and so people are giving us recommendations and we become defensive or protective or right, because we care so much and we poured our heart and soul into this work and we believe in this vision.

Katie P. Desiderio: 14:17

But we can't listen to respond. We have to go further, and Mike mentioned this right. First we go to listen to understand, and that means you might be like asking more questions, right, Leaning in to say let me think about this a little bit more. But then he mentioned this like how do we get to listen to comprehend? And that's really in educating yourself. You're right, as you're listening and learning, there's a space of saying like wow, that kind of blows my mind and I wasn't there at all, but you're right, I can unintentionally be standing in my own way, right, but you're right, I can unintentionally be standing in my own way, Right, and.

Jennifer Johnson: 14:51

And so in that space that that openness to be willing to take it in and learn and then help in the behavior change of of how we, you know, navigate the way forward, and I've got to tell you I've been in that position and you know we've had a consultant come in and tell us somebody in the industry, but yet removed from us, to tell us all of the areas that we can improve, and we've been working with this person for many years. But anytime and my husband can tell you he can predict this, that he knows I'm going to be the one that no, no, no, we cannot do it that way, we're not doing it how. I mean, I can find every reason in the book to say we're not doing it and then somehow along the way I break down after I've had time to think about it, because right away I react no, but if you give me time to ruminate about, it and to think about okay, how could that put all the pieces together?

Jennifer Johnson: 15:48

I come around and then I go. Why didn't we do this sooner?

Katie P. Desiderio: 15:53

Yeah, you are making me think about and I hadn't really thought about this prior to coming into the conversation is it's almost like we, we need to partner with ourselves in some ways too. And so, just as you mentioned, right, you, you got to know yourself over time and you're like what I need is to let it ruminate and I need to process and take the time. And so how do you know? We encourage people to actually turn the mirror to say let me learn about me, let me understand what I need, where my stressors are, where I give myself permission to hit the pause button and say I'm going to need my stressors are where I give myself permission to hit the pause button and say I'm going to need a couple of days, or I might need a month, to come back and then have something that formulates a strategy or a way forward.

Jennifer Johnson: 16:39

But there's a space of always looking outward for answers, and sometimes those answers are right within ourselves and to that point it's like a lot of times we have to get out of our own way, correct and out of others ways. You know, I've seen that I've been in the way, not just from myself but other people, and then, once I remove myself as the roadblock, things flow, things happen organically, naturally, just how they should. But I was the stopper.

Katie P. Desiderio: 17:10

You know, mike and I talk a lot about the space of intention and impact, and in probably all of those instances your intentions are. I care so much, but we couldn't imagine that we're in the way right, and the impact is that we're inhibiting growth or progression. And so, again, having that heightened awareness to understand, I think, becomes important.

Jennifer Johnson: 17:33

It takes time, though.

Katie P. Desiderio: 17:35

Yeah.

Jennifer Johnson: 17:36

It's not something you know. It took me years to figure that out and now I just know. Yeah, but I think I love the idea of, you know, being a partner with yourself.

Katie P. Desiderio: 17:47

Yeah.

Jennifer Johnson: 17:47

That's a really cool way to put it, because, no, it's not another person. But you have to know who you are, know what makes you tick.

Katie P. Desiderio: 17:57

Well, you do such a great job, I mean even in your new book, right In the end of the book. Right, I could do a little plug for that. But at the end of the book you have this like core values exercise there and there's a space of like so many people fail to get to know themselves Right and to really like get like look within and understand yourself, and so so much of this I think comes in success, small business owners. But you can fill in the blanks to a lot of other spaces.

Jennifer Johnson: 18:27

Absolutely, Absolutely Well. It has been an absolute pleasure having you guys on today. If our listeners would like to get a hold of your book or like to get a hold of either of you, how can they do so?

Michael Frino: 18:39

Yeah, so Katie and I have a website. It's leadershipfablescom, so you'll find us on the web. It's on Amazon and all the major retailers, so if you want to pick up a copy of the Beekeeper, we would appreciate it. And yeah, thank you for having us on.

Jennifer Johnson: 18:52

Absolutely, and I have a feeling there's probably another book somewhere in there.

Michael Frino: 19:00

Yeah, definitely, when you like to write, you like to write. There's always great ideas and books spark new ideas, absolutely.

Katie P. Desiderio: 19:03

I'll give a little bit more than Mike, but the second book is tied to what we talked about today and building your star system. So so more to come there.

Jennifer Johnson: 19:11

I can't wait to find out more about the star system. Yeah, that's fabulous. Thank you again. So much Thank you for having us.